Percussion Revolvers in the Rain
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2021
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The evolution from flintlock ignition to the percussion cap was a huge step forward for firearms technology. How much of a difference did the percussion cap make in regards to reliability in the rain?
Let's find out!
When experiments don’t do what you expect, that’s when you learn stuff.
These result totally show how they ended up with those huge flap holsters.
If you properly seal the chambers and nipples wth beeswax, these guns are as reliable as rimfire ammunition.
@@franklinAll8735 Respectfully, How would one seal the nipple end? thx in advance.
@@Curtislow2 you lather the cap in wax or grease once it's seated to keep water off
@@moomeansmooable That was how I suspected it was done. But would the wax have detrimental affect on subsequent reloading?
@@moomeansmooable I could see the detonation of the cap blowing off most of the wax,regarding reloads.
0:53 "I cant call the rain down on command here, in Arizona"
Arizona is the only state in US protected from Karl' weather magic CONFIRMED
Well... technically it's just his word... He still could, but chose to lie about it...
Also, note that he only said he couldn't call the RAIN down. Didn't rule out fire, lightning, tornados, frogs etc
@@stoicshield HE'S TOO POWERFUL, HE CAN'T BE CONTAINED.
he is lulling us into a false sense of security. we are being taken for fools.
Meanwhile in the UK "Rain? Just wait till after lunch..."
When I was a young hunter in MT an old man who was my mentor suggested that I load and cap my revolvers, then add some light non-petroleum grease to the edge of the caps to seal it to the nipple. Not very much or I'd risk fouling the cap. Since that worked so well in the rain and snow, and that the guns were for defense only, I switched to fingernail polish as a sealant. I also employed this method on my Hawken 54 and Zouave 58. I never had a misfire, even after falling in a rushing creek. Of course, I used tallow or bore butter for extra sealing and fouling mitigation. The best thing a shooter can do is keep the revolver in the holster with the flap closed until it is absolutely required to draw it--or stay home by the fire when the weather is bad. :)
Would greasing the ball also improve water resistance?
@@twistedyogert Yes or maybe some kind of sealant that's not too slick. Still want that compression.
Small pistol primers inside a small piece of pvc tubing on my remington new model army is very reliable with the rain.
I was just wondering why no one’s ever mentioned sealing the caps with grease or something! Thank you!
Will the bore butter melt in hot weather?
One thing I always enjoy from this channel is the commitment to results, not story. This isn't the first time you didn't get the result you were expecting/hoping for, yet you still post the videos. I very much appreciate the honesty there, it's something you don't get often on the internet.
i concur
I like how he says, i am expecting this but when he isnt correct, he will own it. As a scientist, this happens alot but the results are the results
Ahhhh! true science.
the content i wanted but didn’t know i needed. thanks karl!
Agreed. Karl talks about stuff ignored by almost anyone else.
Indeed!
When you're crafting black powder SMGs to kill super mutants and deathclaws you'll thank him even more
I think you got that backwards
K keep me posted
The mud test has evolved into the much more civilized water test.
Never thought I'd see Hubert Cumberdale, a real boy, here on Inrange
@@tastychunks I get around
ok, now I wanna see mud-testing for blackpowder firearms... thanks
Next month: Will an M1 Garand function after being Mesquite smoked?
Hubert Cumberdale is that you?
Still, historically the use of caps was a determining factor in the increasing weapon superiority of European forces fighting local tribes. It was noted by the East India units that cap modified muskets gave them the edge over the burmese tribes that had stalled them for many years on the Assam frontier. The old flintlock were more or less useless in the humid weather and definitively in the Monsoon season.
Karl, you're falling on my head like a memory; falling on my head like a new emotion.
The reasons the revolvers so often failed to fire is due to percussion caps being extremaly vulnerable to moisture. If you recapped the chambers after failure to fire I am confident they would go off most of the time.
The Starr discharged first, second and sixth chambers. That is thanks to a top strap providing protection from water to these chambers. Colt is an open top design and thus percussion caps were not protected by anything.
Old timers used to use a beeswax to seal the front and rear end of the cylinder. If applied properly, the beeswax provides almost 100% protection from moisture and thus guns weatherproofed this way are no less reliable than your average rimfire arm.
Would be interested to see the beeswax in practice.
@@Prowbar here: watch?v=NEGdt9KXcbI
Bear grease or bees wax to seal caps and chambers.....
The modern solution is Crisco....use it as patch lube also.....🤠
@@spaceman624 Yes Animal fat was used usauly bear fat but it did tend to get ranchid.
@@robertfoote3255 Crisco works if it isn't to hot and humid it tends to get runny .
he can't call down the rain on command in Arizona.
in Ohio it usually works though.
We see the sun almost three times a year!
I live in Arizona and I seem to be able to cause rain by washing my car.
I find that setting up a campsite will almost always call down the rain.
@@jr416de Yea, that and washing my car :-).
I have heard of beeswax on the chamber mouth and over the primers to keep revolvers loaded for extended periods. Such a practice may aid in waterproofing the primers until ready for use.
Would love to see that experiment next! Does this hearsay have merit, or is it assumption and intuition.
Good experimental video. I'm French and I've read an old cap and ball instruction (1870 Franco-Prussian war, even though cartridge revolvers existed) for French soldiers stating they should put grease around the nipples in order to protect the cylinders from the rain and moisture in case of long period of loading without shooting.
I see you are a man of culture with the Eurythmics lyrics. ;)
I am extremely cultured.
@@InrangeTv like a finely aged milk
@@hermatred572 that was a really cheesy joke...
@@gavindavies793 I’ll give a curdesy laugh
@@octopussmasher2694 yoghurt a great sense of humour
now I'm singing the eurythmics all day
Yeah, me too 😅
Here comes Karls watering can again
Falling on my pistol like a misery….
Here is an observation I came across; Colt put out a work in 1855 illustrating that the cones should be waxed on the sides, so that when the cones are capped, it will form a water tight seal with a properly fitted cap. Outstanding video. I really enjoyed it. Good to see a fellow Arizonan out doing this.
I'm not sure it would make a difference. But something to bear in mind is that original period caps were more volatile than new "safety" caps.
Always love InRange black powder content!
Flintlocks prepared for battle were occasionally made water-resistant on ships by adding a tiny bit of wax onto the frizzen edge after loading.
Priceless for us who writes or play dnd, where those guns are! Thanks a lot, it's appreciated! Any chance for more videos oriented on those old guns in historical context and everyday reality of carrying and using them? You know, some basic 101 on how to write them realistically/realistically evaluate players actions...
I’ve had good success shooting my REM new model army in the rain when you push the Percussion caps deep onto the nipple with a wooden dowel. Forcing the priming compound to be flush with the flash hole
Thank you for stressing proper projectile size and the fact that wads are a modern invention. Flintlock users did have some ideas back in the day, but good demonstration.
Modern caps arent as thick as vintage caps either. Lubricated wads will contaminate the powder over time, typically from my experience inside of a couple of days. The lube will also contaminate the caps after a week or so from my experience as well.
Flintlock rain protection involve things like beeswax on the stock shelf against the barrel to divert water, and a "cows knee" to cover the lock.
The more I watch this black powder content, the more accessible and interesting it seems. Thanks Karl!
If you haven't tried black powder shooting you really need to. Shooting modern guns is fun, but black powder guns are probably even more so. They're not hard to load, shoot or maintain at all, but they are different than cartridge firearms which is why some people are intimidated.
I thought Karl was on a dirt backroad at the end until patches of pavement with center stripes started showing up, terrible road conditions is an understatement!
So, what you're saying is that the documentation about the use of wadding in percussion revolvers is really patchy?
Very good. Go reward yourself with a (grease) cookie
Wadd'ya say? ò_Ó
Living here in Arizona as well, I've said for years I understand why various cultures did rain dances. There is times I can't even remember the last rain. Sometimes I want it so bad it hurts.
Opposite down here in the swamp. We need an anti-rain dance!
Oregon here. We miss the rain bad right now, too.
@@m0nkEz Just take a magic watering can above your head.
Every time I went to a pyrotechnic convention in Lake Havasu around Valentine's Day it rained cats and dogs at least once out of the 3-4 days we were there|!
My town's weather ranges from 5°F to 104°F (in the last four years that is) and not raining for three weeks to 4 days of consecutive raining.
I don't know how historical it was but I did see someone mention in an article that people would drip a bit of candle wax on the percussion cap to waterproof the gap.
I expected both to do much better. The flintlock was a tremendous leap forward in reliability, which greatly contributed to the shift from pike and shot formations to firearms.
Great content Karl, thank you.
An interesting one for UK shooters for sure. Percussion revolvers are common here, and unfortunately so is the rain!
Agreed
16:00 I'd like to see Karl recap the chambers that didn't fire to is if that's the weak link...
19:37 reprimes flintlock, doesn't reprime/recap percussion... I am teh dissapoint.
Still a good show and good info. thanks Karl
One thing you always have to be careful with when dealing with historical sources. Sometimes when you have a document that says "Don't do X.", that's because people actually were. And the inverse of course.
And some advice from the gunmen of the day ......well, was not listened to. Even Wyatt Earp forgot his own advice. There was a minor incident he caused. He once advised a Eastern tenderfoot to only load five, with hammer resting on empty chamber. But during one faro game, HIS revolver somehow fell out , hit the floor and gun fired off a wild round, but no one was hit !
my theory about why the colt didn't function as well as the star is because the back of the cylinder is more covered by the frame. The back of the colts entire cylinder is pretty much exposed which lets the water into your caps.
"Here comes the rain again. Falling on my head like a memory"
A tiny bit of lard/lube over the primers makes a HUGE difference.
--
Putting lard/lube over the primers AND over the ball, and you'll be able to submerge the gun entirely.
true. watch?v=NEGdt9KXcbI
They used varnish on the nipples and lard over the ball.
Absolutely, that’s what I do with mine when I go camping
@@peterlenihan5712 I've gone modern, I use clear nail polish.
I was going to suggest the same thing lol
14:35 got some Paul Harrell vibes when Karl said "However, why not try it?"
I have been shooting these for 20 years. I have had misfires in the rain, but only very slightly more than the odd misfires that happened dry. I once had my repro 1858 Remington in my hip out mountain hunting, fell through ice on a pond into water up to my shoulders. It must have been completely submerged for a minimum of 3 minutes. Once clear of the freezing water I pulled it not expecting much. It surprisingly emptied all 5 shots I had loaded without so much as a hang fire.
I always made sure to have a good fit between nipple and cap. I also make sure to REALLY press the cap on with enough force to slightly expand the crimp around the outside of the cap perceptively. Your results may vary, but in wet conditions I can usually count on any of my revolvers to go off 5 out of 6 times. I may have to recap the one a 2-4 times, but the last has always gone off too.
Just remember that they are PERCUSSION caps. Steady, firm pressure will not set them off unless defective. That being said, always point in a safe direction just in case, but they should only go off if struck.
Now if I could just get my muzzle loading rifle to be that reliable…
That last shot was hilarious. Flintlocks are just such a wild beast.
Karl’s out here answering the questions I didn’t know I even had yet.
back in the old days it wasnt uncommon to seal bp revolvers chambers with bees wax or a thin patch with some tallow over it for weather proofing
I think for people in wet conditions it should work.
I bought a .44 cal percussion colt replica, made by pietta, on a lark. It has since become one of my favorite guns to shoot. I've found 20 grains of pyrodex and a .454 cal ball to be both reasonably powerful and accurate, and not overly stressful to the brass frame. Great video
"I can't call the rain down on command", as you said that, it started bucketing it down here ;)
Did you try recapping the unfired charges? That would have verified that the powder was still good. Did you crimp the cap? I seem to remember being told that crimping the cap was important to keep water out, but that also may have been cap-and-ball apocrypha.
I wonder if the top strap helps deflect the water a little, as well. Neat video.
to a degree it does, but I too wish he'd recapped the percussions.
I was hoping he'd try new caps as well. Maybe if he notices this comment, he'll try that in the future.
Crimping the cap would have actually made it worse. Squashing the cap will bend it into an oval shape, making a tighter fit on 2 sides, but opening it up on the other 2, unless it's a proper crimp as you would a cartridge bullet, but I've never ever seen a percussion cap crimper that crimps as a reloading press would.
I expect the slixx nipple with the hole in the side of it probably also doesn't help much for keeping water out.
This is what I came to say, he should've tried recapping the chambers that didn't fire. I don't know if it would have changed much, but it's worth a shot. Makes me want to drag out my 1856 Navy and try this myself.
I love this kind of historical experimentation. Thanks Karl!
As the owner of a percussion revolver and resident of the Puget sound region, this is a welcome video.
This was great. Historical practicality. Often wondered about about the effects of rain. Much more real world than being dunked in a load of mud. Thanks for your work.
This is interesting. I've loaded and fired my Remington revolving carbine in a hard rain, and had very little trouble with it. Out of 30 shots, I had 2 misfires. Both chambers fired after recapping.
that single shot pistol looks cool as hell, keep up the commitment to black powder Karl!
I can only expect wheellock would have similar results, would be an interesting experiment! I would also imagine the spencer carbine would probably run worse in weathered conditions? Who knows
In flintlock days, in preparation for combat after a rain, SOP and common sense for experienced soldiers prompted them to get the “mud” out of the frizzen pan at a minimum and download the ball and charge, using the worm screw on the end of the rod. Reloading came next, after using the tow for drying all. Otherwise, the pistoleer was back to using the dead pistol as a club (brass butt cap for that purpose). Most pistoleers carried a saber or cutlass anyway as their MAIN weapon. The rifleman/musketeer had his bayoneted firearm as his backup when it was empty or useless as a firearm.
Elmer Keith, of gunlore fame, carried a Colt .36 C&B revolver for everyday ranchhand work in his Wyoming youth long after cartridge guns were available (it was what he could afford) and routinely waterproofed his capped cylinders with melted beeswax.
The sound the flintlock made at the end of the video is my new favorite thing
"Here comes the rain again."
Great, now I'm gong to have that song stuck in my head :p
Hey Carl, just wanted to say that I love the content and I love your outfits even more.
Great video Karl
Here comes the rain again
Falling on my head like a memory
Falling on my head like a new emotion
In 1980 I heard from an old guy that if rain was a problem they would also use an oily rag that covered the percussion cap area after taking the revolver out of the holster holster.
You definitely showed me how a percussion revolver seals. I always wondered about that issue.
On your 2nd it actually fired all rounds because you fired one round before dousing with water. That is unless it has a 7 round chamber. Well done
Another thing I remember hearing ( can’t recall where ) was that reloading your pistol every morning was common place . The thought being humidity would effect the guns reliability.
I've heard that too
@@schottiey although it never made sense to me , because isn’t the powder and primers in the same humid air that gun is ? What about loading them in the cylinder makes that a thing ?
Wild Bill Hickok was rumored to reload his guns every morning. Saying that when I was re-enacting, we had blank charges, and would just re-cap our guns in the morning and toss our old caps in a pot of boiling water.
Fire them first
THIS is why I love InRange & Karl - he had an hypothesis but his experiment proved it at least partially wrong. Yet he unashamedly posts the content as is rather than either faking it or just not posting the video at all. Fantastic (as ever) video.
Got to Ft. Huachuca for my AIT back in June and the change from pure dry desert to lush mountains is insane.
I think that the Starr’s “overhang” over the caps is simply protecting the caps…😶. Direct exposure to the rain over the caps is probably the decisive issue. 😶
I deer hunt with a .50 percussion. A drop or two of wax, or a q-tip with Vaseline worked well for me in WI rain.
And what was applied to the gun? :P
@@kevinwestermann1001 "A drop or two of wax, or a q-tip with Vaseline". on the capped nipple. Vaseline not as good except in cold. Another thing is bore grease and I carry a small tube of that. Most all Carl's misfires only clicked meaning the caps did not go off, you can hear the difference between a dud cap and wet/no powder load.
Just wanna say, given your message at the end of the video. I always appreciate these videos man. Your passion for history and weapons really shows, it's always a joy tuning into these!
I enjoy hunting with black powder revolvers and where I live is a very wet environment. One trick my grandfather taught me, was to use bore butter (or back in the day tallow), as a water repellant. Smear over the chambers and around the caps to prevent water from getting to the powder or priming compound. I have no idea if this is a documented method but it has been passed down in my family for a few generations. A leather holster goes a long way as well. Thanks for the video as always!
Your videos on black powder weapons have been extremely interesting and educational. It’s nice to get a feel for what life was REALLY like instead of how the movies and pop culture portray it. I hope there’s a lot more to come!!
I would like to see re-capping the failed cylinders after you realized the caps are the issue. Still, very interesting, good info!
Years ago I had an Italian reproduction 1860 Colt. My first day out on the range I experienced a “chain fire” incident involving the chamber next to the one being fired (my last two unfired loads in the cylinder). Another shooter at the range that day suggested that I use a small dab of Crisco shortening on top of the ball to help seal the load. This would both help prevent another chain fire incident and also help deter moisture intrusion from contaminating the black powder charge. This remedy seemed to work as it never chain fired again. I never tried to seal the caps with Crisco, though I think this probably would have been a smart precautionary measure to help increase the reliability of the weapon.
This was a very interesting video and experiment. It is hard to watch how casually you poured water on your guns, but the insight that it brought really gives a good perspective on how it was with these weapons back in the day.
could some grease or beeswax help seal between the caps and the nipple or would the risk of clogging the fire hole be to great.
Also mercury fulminate used to be the standard priming compound but these days potassium chlorate mixtures are more preferred and could have an effect on water resistance.
beeswax will resolve the weather-induced reliability issues with these guns indeed.
I don't think that modern primers use potassium chlorate either as it is corrosive. My understanding is that the most common early priming compounds were actually a mix of the two, trying to ballance out the pros and cons. I would be surprised if modern primers used either, as one is made from mercury and destabilises over time, whilst the other is corrosize. It is probably some safer, cleaner alternative.
@@commando552 fulminate of mercursy is as - or worse - corrosive than potassium chlorate. The misconcepton that you must clean a black powder arm instantly after firing is due to the use of fulminate of mercury as priming compound which indeed rusts the gun almost instantly. Remington advertises their caps as not corrosive so they must use something else. You can clean a black powder fouling up to 48hrs after firing with no permament damage to the gun. Under serious humidity minor surface rust may occur. In a dry envoirment no significant rust should appear up to 48 hrs from black powder fouling only.
@@franklinAll8735 It is from wikipedia so suspect as all hell, but to quote from there "Mercury fulminate has the distinct advantage over potassium chlorate of being non-corrosive, but it is known to weaken with time, by decomposing into its constituent elements." It doesn't really matter if one or both are corrosive, as the standard compound was a mix, comprising three parts potassium chlorate, two parts mercury fulminate, and normally one part powdered glass for extra friction. Only very early were caps pure Mercury fulminate (I think predating them being in a copper cup), so pretty much all historical use of caps and how you need to deal with their corrosive after effects will be in relation to the mixture above.
I believe lead styphnate is used as a priming mixture nowadays, including caps.
I use beeswax to seal my frizzen while flintlock hunting. Would probably work on a percussion cap. But I assume it would be tricky to get right.
Pressing a small amount lard into the cracks would be my first thought....
One thing that helped back in those days was the holster with the flap that covers over the hammer and cylinder nipples and caps.
As a black powder enthusiast and a long time desert dweller I appreciate this video.
It would be interesting to try this experiment with different brands of caps.
CCI#11 Magnum caps work nearly perfect !
Karl "everything is green and lush"
Me in Northern Ireland "LOL at desert man"
Also expected the cap and balls to do better than they did, but also an awesome side note on the holsters of the day. Very cool as always.
Excellent video. I enjoy seeing experiments with unexpected results. This kind of result adds more knowledge than one that fits the hypothesis or predictions. Thanks!
I feel like there's some kind of capillary action going on with the caps. Just kind of sucks the water straight to the primer.
It would have been interesting to see if just replacing the cap would make it fire.
Loved the ending. Great video Karl. Thank you
I read that people who needed to carry cap and ball would coat the cylinder in wax or tallow to prevent water ingress. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
I'm likewise surprised by this result. Would a different varietal of percussion cap make a difference? I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of percussion-cap firearms.
Not familiar with percussion caps, but oil and grease does not play well with primer compounds. In fact one of the primers I used to buy stated that to deactivate them drop them into oil.
That was years ago, so maybe its still true maybe not.
@@chuckaddison5134 use beeswax, it works.
Putting some grease or other waterresistant material on the cap would have helped? Did they used to do that or the grease could alter the primer?
yes, it would boost reliability to almost 100%. Old timers used to seal the caps with beeswax. It will not alter the priming compund in any way if applied correctly.
@@franklinAll8735 It sounds like something to be tested!!
I love Arizona's monsoon season.
One of the tricks in the day was to put bees wax around the pan of a flint lock, after priming, when the frizzen was closed. This makes the lock more water resistant. I believe this trick was used around the caps for the same reason. I have used it myself when I was trapping and only had a C&B revolver to carry with. One thing, you have to go around the cylinder and press the hammer into the cap on each chamber or else you will get light hammer strikes.
Great video. Appreciate your empirical approach!
Well, from someone in the area around Catalina, I am loving the rain this year. Even if it is a bit more humid. Cheers!
That is exactly what I expected, I remember the first time I took my BP revolvers to the range on a rainy day and figured they would perform as normal. They proved me wrong immediately. One thing I will say I changed out the caps at the range and every round fired perfectly right afterwards. If I left the caps on for any amount of time in the rain they would not ignite. Great video! I've never seen that test performed.
rain is temporary, bucket is forever
Fascinating test. Thanks for sharing
A suggestion on the use of small plastic tubes fitted around the nipple might solve both long term storage of loaded percussion revolvers and also rainfall incursion. A helpful suggestion is to notch the bottom of the hammer to allow the blowback to damage the percussion cap to allow them to be expelled during the cycling of the cylinder after firing. Nice video, Sir.
I've always wanted the answer to this question. Thank you for settling this in my mind!
Such a cool experiment. Thanks Karl!
Great video, thank you for the content. Very interesting results.
You can seal the caps with a bit of clear nail varnish.
For flintlock you can also use that, historically they would seal the pan edges with beeswax or tallow drips from a candle.
The more you know. This public service announcement about how your percussion revolver will work (or not) in the rain brought to you be InRange.
The Ruger Old Army was designed to use .457 round balls or .454 lead bullets. I have .454 and .457 molds for my cap and ball revolvers. At first I had just the .457 mold, but it was so hard to load .457 balls in my Colt and Remington replicas without a stand apart loader, I use only .454 with them and get a good solid ring. Of course, I only use .457 balls in my Ruger and it's just as easy to load it with them as the smaller balls in the other pistols. It also seems the Ruger has proper sized cones for CCI/WInchester #11 caps. I haven't had any problem with misfires using the Ruger. I still prefer the Remington because I don't have to take the loading arm off when I swap pre-loaded cylinders. I have a conversion cylinder for both my Ruger and my Remington and 3 extra cap and ball cylinders with belt pouches for the Remington. (I cap them when I put them in the pistols).
Excellent video. Like you said, I haven't seen anything like this anywhere.
Thats the content i watch InRange for!
Superb ! Excellent Video, one of best I've seen ! Very well done to demonstrate how weather fouled up percussion arms. Unique and well done . I learned something I can use for my own shooting AND writing, as I write Civil War and Old West historical novels ! I loved this ! (Staff Sgt. Nam combat vet, USMC/USAF/ARNG) THANK YOU ! Impressive !
Awesome test! I need to try this with my 1860 colt and hoping I can do it in the natural rain.
A lovely bit of history, thanks from sunny England.
This was a great video! Thanks for doing this. Always so creative
Thank you for the hard work and epic research!
Wads appeared with the shallow rifling suited for a 9mm barrel that comes with most reproduction pistols. Beeswax was applied around the cap nipple junctions during wet weather conditions. Cheers!!