Geronimo’s Rifle - The 1870 Springfield
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
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In this video we visit the Arizona Historical Society and were provided very gracious access to Geronimo's actual rifle! The real thing. His actual rifle!
Additionally we discuss the development of the 1870 Springfield from the the earliest incarnation of the 1865 Allin's conversion, and it's subsequent relegation as surplus on the frontier after the adoption of the 1873 Springfield to replace it.
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That's so cool that the Arizona Historical Society would let you handle that gun. Neat.
I think they have one at the Cody museum too.
@@PhuVet ò
i have a window sticker that says "trust the government? ask an Indian."
Geronimo came to parley and was ambushed.
Well he also surrendered 3 times to the government.
Government lieing dogs
And still many Americans truly think that the states are the greatest country on earth. It's pretty funny if you think about if.
@@jasperiusdedacia9400 government is a necessity evil
I've seen the picture of Geronimo kneeling with his rifle many times and always wondered what rifle it was. This is a very good video and is good to know that the rifle still exist and is well taken care of.
Take a look at the picture again, that is a different rifle.
Cyrus is correct. The kneeling photograph is a posed picture in a studio. (You can see the cloth backdrop.) It was likely taken around 1900 for the souvenir trade. The rifle was probably a prop belonging to the photographer. Here's a picture of a much younger Geronimo posing with his trapdoor Springfield -- lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/EXJRFqPQQj7M-W2aSd_2Vrh-ufP92yWQswC0cgyKtizlIb2MezR6cR7HxydpseNmS_uF0fVjmyY1HTlaHQipHs2Bj08w6rZvbwbXPyrJ4hlNkXAy0MRQapabFFnGoeDf4Boz9bLyGgmyLgIoWOOC30Cy
It's a different rifle. The picture was taken in 1887, 10 years after he surrendered this rifle.
@@MarvinCZ I wonder what he felt picking that rifle up after that time?
Very interesting, to those of us unfamiliar with American history
You can say what you want but Inrange tv and forgotten weapons are some of the most informative firearms channels without any of the political and ideological bs of other channels. Its a good thing we got you guys.
Exactly, thanks for noticing that. These are my favorite firearms related channels because as a lefty who appreciates and respects firearms (both as the tools they are and the history behind them), most of the other channels are either off-putting or unwatchable (to me), filled with political ideology and straight up misinformation. I appreciate the few channels that leave all that BS out because it really isn't a political issue, nor should it be. The people who keep trying to make it one are the ones who have a financial motive to pit Americans against eachother and it's just so old.
@@kevinrobinson5654 lefty doesn't mean Democrat. Plenty of us are fed up with both parties.
@@kevinrobinson5654 A leftist is not a Democrat.
Congratulations, @@MrJonsonville5! You've found a "safe place" and it's not in a "gun free zone"!
@@ActionCow69 democrats are far too right wing for me. I dropped my party affiliation with them after the 2020 primaries when they overtly stole the nomination from Bernie for the second time. The GOP swung from center right to straight up autocratic fascism in the last 10 years, and the democrats have swung from center left to conservative over the last 30 years. Even Reagan and Bush I knew climate change was a problem that needed to be tackled, and were for amnesty of those we now call "dreamers" (undocumented immigrants who were brought here as children and know no other country as their home).
And when you say "safe space," are you talking like the underground bunkers of the Qtards and peppers? Or the Twitter alternatives fascists flocked to because they couldn't handle seeing brown people and gay people getting rights? You mean those kinds of safe spaces? Cuz last I checked, choosing not to watch something in America was a freedom we still have. The days of forced ideological propaganda video watching aren't here yet. Maybe if you guys had gathered more than 800 people in your little failed coup last January things would be different....but as long as this is still the USA I still have the right to watch (or not watch) whatever I want. I almost didn't even respond to your comment, because it's impossible to take people who use terms like "safe spaces" seriously...as soon as you dodge civil discourse in favor of hyperbolic BS, you've already lost the ability to be seen as a serious person worth having substantive discussion with.
Your historical and historically-oriented RUclips videos are solid gold, Karl! Informative, enjoyable and entertaining.
They're why I'm a Patreon. The pure gun stuff is interesting, but this is worth my money. :)
Indigenous forces LMAO 🤣
Engine lives matter 😀😀😀🤧
@@missouribattleflag328 Gonna get mad about words, snowflake? lmao
It’s always amusing to see the characteristic cracks on the wrist of just about every trapdoor ever
Why are they so common?
@@tamlandipper29 I’m inclined to say either the wear is sufficient that the wrists can’t stand up to much firing beyond that point or more likely that they would’ve been better served to install a recoil lug somewhere around there 🤔
Otherwise it could be from people using overly hot or outright dangerous loadings in their rifles
The trapdoor was in hindsight, the worst rifle ever built. Not only was the recoil half again more powerful than the .58cal muskets, it ripped off 1 out of four cartridge rims, jamming on a lethally regular basis, as seen by Gen. Custer. The Spencer, while a vastly more restrictive design due to its action, was a vastly better rifle. The Spencer DID require a lot more force to cycle, but it was also much more rugged, and had been built from the ground up with the equivalent of three tangs: trigger tang, receiver tang, and magazine tube lug.
@@stitch626aloha I wouldn’t necessarily agree with the assertion that it’s the worst rifle ever made, but it definitely had its flaws. Regarding the ripped case heads, metallic cartridge technology was in its infancy, and it can be argued that poor quality control on ammunition would be more to blame than a stout positive extraction. The Spencer was a more modern system, but far more resource and cost-intensive for a government intent on spending as little money on the army as humanly possible. The trapdoor was far from ideal, but it was a simple and (mostly) effective solution for a frontier army of the time, though it rapidly began to show its age with the widespread proliferation of the Winchester rifles and carbines. I can’t really say there’s any well-known widely used firearm from that period that I would characterize as utterly awful, they all had their strengths and weaknesses.
The Spencer is far LESS rugged and likely to malfunction than the Trapdoor and the Trapdoor is a very effective and rugged rifle. I don't know where some of you are getting your knowledge but I can tell you it's not from practical (actual) use.
Wow, I love your videos, you sir, are a great story teller! The only Trapdoor I ever had in my hands was a true basket case brought to me by a native American who lived on the Fort Totten Reservation. He didn't tell me any background really, his wife worked with mine at the local nursing home and the ladies talk, as they will, he learned I was a part time gun smith, and wanted to know if I could put the parts back together and make a wall hanger out of them. The stock was in pieces but all the steel was there and it was in fair condition. So I went to work, first cleaning up the stock as well as I could, while saving the finish as best as I could, epoxied the parts together using steel and wooden dowels to re-enforce the stock where it needed strength (I rebuilt it thinking he may well try to fire it some day as the bore was very good) I asked him about re-blueing and he wanted that done, so I polished the steel very carefully to maintain the wonderful lines of the classic rifle and the next bluing day we had, I ran her through the tanks. She came out very nice actually. When it was done, I would not have been afraid to fire it, and asked the fellow if he wanted me to test fire the rifle, as I always did that when repairing firearms, he said yes, so I put ten rounds through her of commercial .45-70 ammo, which, as you know is really lightly loaded for the older guns. It was still shooting fairly accurately, when I returned the rifle he was thrilled with the results, in addition to paying his bill he brought me another box. It was filled with old guns, nothing classic, just old single shot shot guns, a replica black powder kit that someone had tried to build and failed completely and a few .22 rifles. He also brought me a replica of the .45-70 that he had purchased so we could compare the old one to the new model, I had to say the old pelter looked, well much more historic.
"I should have never surrendered.
I should have fought until I was the last man alive."
-Goyahkla (Geronimo)
Was that before or after he got rich and toured the world
@@stanpressley8136
He died in a prison camp for native Americans in the state of Florida.
@@burntorangeak Study your history what he did also
@@stanpressley8136 can you provide some evidence to this claim that Geronimo got rich and toured the world? Everything I have been able to find suggests he made a meager living doing forced shows while a prisoner but nothing about him leaving the country or being rich.
Words to live by even today in 2021
This is amazing, I’ve seen Geronimo’s grave at Fort Sill but actually being able to hold a piece of history like that is truly awesome.
Yeah I always thought that was an interesting cemetery.
@@johnqpublic2718 I was stationed there from 2011-2014, so I went there or drove past it all the time. Showed family who came to visit too.
Same. Kinda one of the places you have to visit when you go to basic training there. It is especially haunting if you march by it in the early morning right at sunrise like we did
@@johnqpublic2718 went there to learn how to be a forward observer about ten years ago. Family actually left the Reno reservation there around 1900, I think I may have been the first one of our family to go back to fort sill.
Ran by that place weekly for many a years
The older I get the more I appreciate the old warhorses ....wonder if there is a correlation. In Range never fails to impress.
Jay reminds me a lot of my late grandfather, he was very well read about American history and the American frontier in particular. He would have enjoyed this video very much.
Ever since I was a little kid I was looking at Geronimo as a hero. There's even a huge mural dedicated to him in San Diego California that I remember. It was not that far from the house I grew up in
I remember reading an account of the forensic analysis of the battle at the Greasy Grass. The tribes used captured ammunition and weapons against the troopers. Some split cases. And one of the rifles in the museum's collection was ballistic ally proven to have been at the battle.
A few years back my sister, her husband, me and my wife decided to visit Yellowstone. We lived east of Montana, so our trip took us past the Little Bighorn battlefield. Being an old cavalryman (3rd Armored Cav BRAVE RIFLES!) I just had to stop and pay homage to my fellow troopers. We spent three days wondering the battle ground, leaving our motor homes parked at a nearby campground and driving to the site daily. Our old fart green cards allowed us free access to the park. Just walking the ground is an amazing experience, the grave stones placed where the troopers fell, the large grave where the horses were buried, and other memorials. You could spend hours wondering through the small museum that is on the grounds. I think I was more amazed by the battle field then Yellowstone, where we spent a week seeing the sights and playing pinochle at night in our rigs. I have found memories as it was the last trip we were able to take together. Today, I am the last one alive of the four of us. I still have my motor home in the back yard but the weeds are invading the engine compartment and surrounding the rig. With no co-pilot there is no joy in setting behind that wheel and the urge to be once again nomadic left me as we buried my wonderful wife of 51 years and 4 days up on the hill that overlooks the town. Getting old sucks.
@@JerryEricsson i did not expect to see such a heart warming story in the comments of this video. Have a good day old man :)
@@JerryEricsson Sorry Jerry, hope things get better for you.
@@JerryEricsson condolences sir. Having those memories is gold
@@JerryEricsson That is the most moving thing I have read in quite some time, Jerry. Thank you for sharing that with us and I wish you all the best with sincere regards.
i was not prepared to see Geronimo's rifle no matter what the title said
Has anyone noticed that the Apaches were carrying more than ten rounds? When a government wants to limit yer ammo, it's time to get more.
That must have been such a rush to hold that rifle, I once got to hold a musket that was used by the milita at the battle of Lexington and Concord and it was a special feeling.
Congrats on 400k subs Karl!
Thanks!
I have a 1873 sitting in my house it belonged to my grandparents and I really didn't know anything about it. When this video started I was thinking hey I think I have one of those sitting in my living room. Thanks for the history.
i know it may sound a bit sappy or something but....the mere idea of seeing, much less touching such historical object makes my heart race!!!!!! keep up the AWESOME work Karl!!!
I really love these mid- to late 19th century gun presentations. Unique content not found anywhere else.
Thanks for all these awesome videos, Karl.
Capandball.....
Karl thank you for sharing the history of Geronimo, Arizona and the Western frontier.
These are my favorite type of Inrange videos.
Great video Karl! Even in the UK Geronimo is famous (admittedly as a ‘baddie’ from the 60s Westerns I watched as a kid) and to see artifacts and hear real stories from that time is just fascinating. Thanks both to you and the Arizona Historical Society.
Great content Karl! Appreciate you bringing a lot of history (good/bad/indifferent) to light so that we as the viewer can learn and grow. Good stuff as always!
Love this content. Thank you for sharing this history. Also, thank you for recognizing those who preserve and document history. It is an incredibly important task.
Awesome, imagine hearing those words about the coyote linking your bones from a warrior like Geronimo... spine tingling
content like this video is what differentiates in range from other “gun channels”
big LIKE from me! also, yes, I am subscribed on the Patreons
thank you !
Absolutely riveting Karl - much, much appreciated, I love this sort of content .. incredible tales from the past, I thank you!! :-)
Thank you for the insightful and factual information on this important time in our history. There are heroes on all sides when we can look back and view history with the perspective of time. Your historical content with its understanding of the culture and the factors that caused these events is a great benefit to those who have not been exposed to this information other than in our school systems. Keep up the good work and looking forward to future content of this nature.
As a white mountain apache native appreciate this vid even tho Geronimo was muscalaro
I love these historical firearms videos. Great job as always, Karl!
Once again another well thought out video. I always look forward to Karl's historic videos.
I always look forward to watching your content Karl!
I love all of your content, but your historical and Vignette videos are by far my favorite. Thank you!
I have never been disappointed with a video InRange puts out and this is no exception. Great work.
Great content as always Karl, really love the historical videos on In Range
Very interesting, thank you for bringing history to us and the work that you do
Thanks so much for this video! Such cool content to see. Keep up the great work!
Incredible work and love the historical discussion!
To have a piece of history like that in your hands wow. That would give me goosebumps
i've got one of those rifles my Dad bought in the 1930's for $5 from a guy who dug it up in a sugarcane field. He cleaned it up back then and its in great shape.
There is a museum of found guns, I think in Montana.
Great content, as always. Your work is appreciated.
It's fascinating how this parallels the Snider-Enfield in Britain. It was the conversion of the Enfield rifled musket to metallic cartridges, and as with the Trapdoor, the third mark of the Snider was built from new parts instead of recycling Enfield muskets. The big difference was that the Snider was never reduced in caliber.
It would be a fascinating video comparing the conversion trapdoors to the sniders. Not only the effectiveness and handling. But also the Economics of how much it cost to convert them.
@@felixstieger9039 Sounds like a perfect InRange / British Muzzleloaders crossover episode. :-)
@@felixstieger9039 that and the Wänzl rifle, too: ruclips.net/video/RYxxFagOvJg/видео.html
I am fascinated by the conversion rifles of this period.
Except with the Snider it didn't eject. Tip over & spent cartrigde falls out.....
@@iansnell8897 True. And you know what? The sights were different, too. So? The point I was making is the similarity in approach: Take a rifled muzzleloader and cut part of the barrel off so you can insert a mechanism that changes it to a metallic-cartridge breech loader. That was the actual point.
Excellent presentation as always Karl. So informative and interesting.
Excellent as usual Karl. Many thanks from the UK.
I believe it is a fine art, requiring passion and knowledge, that of mixing artefacts and history in an seamless, thorough, informative yet enjoyable and entertaining format.
Well done and look forward to the next chapters.
Fascinating stuff. Thank you, and congrats on 400k!
Thank you!
Awesome stuff Karl, thanks for all the great info. Also congrats on the 400k subs too.
Thank you so much for sharing this video with us.
Fascinating! Keep up the great work! Thanks!
Your Old West videos are the best part of this channel lately.
Grateful for your efforts.
Thanks Karl! Enjoy your historical videos.
Excellent informative video canny wait to see the rifle fire Historical Very interesting to see it used
All the best from Scotland keep the great content coming
Fascinating! Excellent presentation. Thank you for sharing that.
Splendid stuff as always Karl. Keep up the good work
Always enjoy your historical stuff!
Here to fight the algorithm, and I share almost all your vids on my Discord as well. Love the content.
I love these videos about old west guns and history!!! Thank You, Karl!!!
Thank you for holding onto and sharing that story.
This was so much more interesting then i was expecting it to be, thank you for having enthusiasm and making history fun to hear.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Never a disappointment with InRange content. Thanks for your work and presentation. Patreon has to be one of my best investments.
Thank you Karl, this is a great video and presentation.
This is just to bump the video. If that is too boring, just imagine I am raging against Carl for some perceived heresy against the gun world.
Man I’m tired, I had to read your note three times trying to figure out what was bothering you. My bad. Bump away.
[insert generic snarky rebuttal full of opinions with no cited sources]
@@evanwickstrom5698 No, no no. My grandfather’s best friend who was killed in the war before I was born told me that he had one and that gun could shoot around corners if you cut off the buttplate sear.
I'm going to add my throwaway algorithmic funtimes comment here, because why not.
Keep it up Karl!
@@pete3767 Welcome to the “for the algorithm club.” We should get T-shirts…
Keep up the work Karl, love all your types of content
Love this content. Keep it coming!
Amazing piece of history, and how awesome to be able to hear the account of Geronimo's capture.
I have found this video to be a great bit of historical information ! have a 1873 model that was my late grandfather. Enjoyed this a lot. Thank you.
great content as always, thankyou Karl
Love the history you present.
This channel is criminally underrated
Thats awesome, I just picked up an 1869 trapdoor springfield! And I just made ammo for it! Its my first time dabbling in black powder!
Another excellent video! Thank you !
There's something about a single shot rifle that gives a completely different shooting experience. One day I'll order the uberti rifle, I want to take it hunting.
Whilst every shot can obviously have purpose, I feel that the single shot rifle gives a different feel to that purpose too. I started out here thinking I'm going to easily explain the difference between using a multi-shot rifle and a single but I find myself struggling. It _is_ different and you know it and I know but just how it is different I discover is hard to explain. It might be as simple as slowing things down and forcing you to make that single shot count, even if just punching holes in paper. When used in hunting or in anger I am sure that feeling is greatly magnified.
@@Stigstigster yeah it forces you to concentrate on every shot, and the satisfaction when you make hits is exemplified. I think manually loading each cartridge is also part of that.
They’re simplistically beautiful. I have a reproduction Harrington & Richardson Springfield M1873 Officers Model, and it is a joy to shoot and to simply regard.
This is one of your best stories, about an often forgotten journey of a model of rifle and where it ultimately came from.
Wonderful as always, Karl. I look forward to seeing that old horse run.
One of the better RUclips videos on historical arms. Well done!
Excellent content, as always, Karl.
I’ve got a 1865 Springfield 50-70 trap door from Fort Lowell in Tucson. Story goes my great grandfather found this rifle hidden up in the rafters of the Fort back in the early 1900’s. It was passed down to me and I will pass it down to my son. I visited the Fort and found out they have no known weapons from the Fort that are still known to exist except my rifle.
Great information, thank you for posting!
Always good to see some more history on here!
Great presentation. Thank you
Fascinating! Thank you! One of the highlights of my life was standing in the cell at Fort Pickens, Florida where Geronimo was held prisoner. I have also had the honor of reading his autobiography. A fascinating person.
Fascinating Carl. Thank you for this video.
Found it fascinating Karl! Thanks for sharing.
Outstanding, as always.
Awesome as always!
Excellent video: informative and interesting. Thank you for your work!
Now I genuinely wonder how many times I've seen that rifle in old westerns. Great content as always, Karl
Nicely done hope to see more.
Great content as always. The old west historical insights that you provide are fascinating.
Glad you like them!
I just happened to run across your channel and it's great ! . I've been an old west and Civil War history geek since I was a kid ( 67 yrs old now ) . Keep up the great work and stay safe out there , much admiration and respect from Dundalk , Maryland . 👍👍
Great video Karl! Proud to be a Patreon supporter since the beginning…. InRange was my first Patreon support and many other channels have followed. If someone reading this is not a Patreon supporter of this channel, please do so…what are you waiting on???
Karl, your sincerity in these historical videos is commendable! I absolutely love watching them!!! Keep up the great work. Look forward to seeing you shoot it!!!!
My first time in your channel. Very well done, and outstanding information.
Beardless carl really caught me off-guard. Awesome video, honestly not too big on this type of history but it's always cool to learn stuff from this channel.
Thanks for the great information. Very helpful history
Outstanding content. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Karl, love this stuff
Awesome video!! Thank you!!!
Thank you so much for your video!!!