Class 91 after 10 years in service
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- Опубликовано: 2 сен 2020
- The Class 91 documentary from Channel Four RUNNING TO TIME was originally distributed by Video 125 on VHS cassette. While not available on DVD, here we present the follow up that we made in 2000 as an appendage to RUNNING TO TIME, in other words after 10 years in service. It is quite interesting to see the official launch by the Queen and also to see and hear about the Class 91/HST hybrid racehorse.
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11:48
He is still around to see it.
Thats good to know. And he can say he was right there still from what i know still running.
And his prediction was spot on....
Assuming he's still alive and didn't die of Covid-19
@@Frserthegreenengine
He was around to see it. Whether he's still alive is irrelevent.
I miss that old GNER livery. Haven’t seen a train look as smart on UK rails in quite a while. The current LNER/Virgin livery on the Class 91 looks like a Coca-Cola can.
I would concur with your sentiments without reservation
The newer racing-green Great Western Railway livery is quite nice looking. They ditched the old "First Great Western" livery, with it's blue-purple and pink highlights, and replaced it with something much nicer. Plus they resurrected a modern take on the old GWR brand logo from decades ago.
I agree GNER was definitely one of the best and gave an elegant image to the sets. I quite like the Grand central livery though, and the GWR green is quite nice - though sadly I can't say the same about the trains that wear it. Those IETs are pretty awful trains IMO. Noisy, uncomfortable and harsh riding. Everything a long distance train shouldn't be! :-/
@@soundseeker63 I’m not a fan of the IETs, partly because of the great trains that they replaced.
Can't have a true streamlined livery anymore with the ridiculous colour coded door regulations.
It's a shame that ECML signalling was not sufficiently upgraded to facilitate more sections at 140 mph service speed.
some parts of the line can do that speed and its shame they wasted the chance
The original InterCity livery suited the 91s best of all in my opinion.
the Swallow livery?
yep i totally agree
I would say it but I think GNER was the best livery tied with ic swallow
@Steam Guy IC Swallow looked smart on everything that wore it......provided it was clean! The white areas did tend to show the dirt quite quickly.
GNER was a little better in that respect - the dark blue was a practical colour, and the gold lettering added a touch of style. Both fondly remembered IMO.
imo gner mallard suited them better but intercity looked nice on them
I think the APT looked better
That was an excellent video on the 91’s.
Gone but not forgotten.
Glad to hear that one of the Class 91 locomotives (91110) will be preserved in the National Collection!
I’ll miss these trains used ride them 30 years ago lovely trains the replacements will not be same. I last rode one in 2014.
Soon to be gone those amazing locomotives, will be cool to see how they fair in Bulgaria with freight workings and it be cool to see the power and strength of the locomotive.
It's so surreal seeing them back then wonder what this year would be like. Bet they didn't expect this!
Hi my name is Phil I did 50yrs on the footplate 8yrs on steam i started at edgeley shed in 1961 1962 I was made a fireman I finished my time out at longsight as a driver I drove I number of class of class 90s with dvt class 81 to 87s and other locomotives I finished in 2011 Regards Phil.
I'm reading this about 1/2 mile away from Edgeley Shed :)
Philip Holt thank you for your service.
7:42 - Too late pal! :D
Miss those Beautiful Locomotives here in Edinburgh. I think they only go as far as York now? the GNER livery really Suited then the most in my opinion, just a shame they won't be coming back North of the Border. Are the 91s going to be around until 2024-25?
Superb locos, got to make the most of them when they return to service
Thanks for uploading this. Interesting what was said at 5:30 regarding the ride comfort of the mk3s and how they had it spot on in the 1970s. Even now with the mk5s, with all their new technology which should allow for a huge leap forward in refinement (like comparing a modern car to a car from the 70s), and we still cant get the ride comfort to match the mk3s.
I've not been on a Mk5 yet but I have definitely noticed a recurring theme of extremely uncomfortable seats in many of the more recent trains - another subject that was touched on here. Are the Mk5s any different? You are right, it seems difficult to fathom why they can't seem to get the basic things right anymore!
@@soundseeker63 hello. I've been on the new Calidonian Sleeper mk5s. The sleeping berth coaches are fine in general. I've read people say they are not as quiet as the mk3 berth coaches, however). I did however also try the seated sleeper option one time. This was where I noticed the harder ride (made worse by the concrete hard seats). The air conditioning ducts also run along the window sils rather than the ceiling so all night long I had cold air blasted in my face with the constant drone of the blower motors. Its a shame really as the coach decor is so fresh and modern giving the impression of a nice coach to sit in.
@@orion1983uk Concrete seats and noisy AC seem to be common features to most new classes of train - The amount of criticism the seats in the IETs have recieved is considerable, and rightly so! The DaFT seriously need to get their act together!
"The standard class seats are too hard and less attractive than the equivalent on the predeceasing train." Nothing ever changes.
If only! The original seats on the Mk4s were 100 times better that those atrocious items we have on the Azuma now!
In 30 years we’ll be going ”If only the seats on the new trains were as comfortable as the good old Azumas!”
@@buksi6342 I won't, because if the trend continues I will be driving everywhere instead!
@@soundseeker63 You can't keep aging rolling stock forever..
The reason for us putting up the sequel is because Running to Time is on RUclips in full (from another RUclips provider).
@EthanTube3103 Sorry but it would not be viable to put this onto DVD now as it has been free to view for some time on RUclips.
@EthanTube3103 Sorry Ethan we don't have a copy any more.
@EthanTube3103 Sorry Ethan, it wasn't our production so we don't have that information. It may have been on the end credits but we don't have a copy.
@EthanTube3103 Insufficient material I'm afraid.
GNER had some of the last traditional dining cars with on board cooking.
And the class 91 is still running. Yesssssss.
All Hail class 91.
At time of writing 5 left on the east coast
@@longpier350 They are keeping 10 not sure on all numbers but 91101 (Flying Scotsman) 91107 (Skyfall) and 91111 (For the Fallen) with 110 going to the National Collection
Dom757200 do you know what’s happening to the drive trailers
@@longpier350 They were going to go to Grand Central to do Euston- Blackpool services but the current situation put pay to that. TfW is going to introduce 3 MK4 and DVTs between Cardiff and Holyhead while the others are in doubt but rumours are floating that Grand Union will be running them between London Paddington and Cardiff Central and London Euston to Stirling
Dom757200 nice see the most of the 91 related things getting a new service life
Half expected the guard on the service the queen was on to have to say "I'm sorry for the delay Ma'am but the wiring has come down, we might be here a while" given the quality/type of the knitting on the ECML.
7:56 "The standard class seats are too hard"
Class 700:
Azuma.
Class 345:
They aren't terrible, yes the seats are a poor posture, but that's DFT standard for you.
06:34 That GNER livery, was, sheer class.
Dude these interviews are great
Can't wait for Hornby's newly tooled BR Class 91 in original IC swallow livery. Heres hoping next year they will announce full 9 carraige rakes of newly tooled BR MK4 coaches, and a newly tooled BR MK4 DVT in super detail, so you can finally have a fully super detailed original Intercity 225 train!
A full rake will take up a lot of space. How big is your layout?
Legend has it, the man at 7:42 is still following that train trying to catch it
0:07 GREAT SCOTT. It's Her Majesty The Queen. Queen Elizabeth II. Thanks Mate. X
Sad to see the bulk of the Class 91s are been retired now. About 12 will be kept in service until 2023.That will make the age of some of the locos 36yrs when they will finally be retired.
Very good locomotives and the MK4 stock are really comfortable to ride in, much more comfortable than the ICE 800 sets.
That’s wonderful
If the Privatisation wouldnt be we would have gotten the Intercity 250 (Class 93) wich would have used Tilting Mechanisms like the Pendolino so we would have gotten it 10 Years earlier.
I've traveled on both the 125 & 225s over the years and I always loved the 225. Which are referred to here as the class 91s
would it be somewhat cruel to ask you to picking the best out of the 125 and 225, not just in terms of performance but in terms of looks and affections?
@@KeiranCounsellKC1994 125s (Valenta power plants), all day long
I remember getting from london too york in less than 2 hours in the early 90's ..
Last week, it took somewhat over 2 hours..
Glad to hear it
I just love the idea of the 7000hp hybrid 😂
I'll miss the Class 91s when they're gone.
They staying until 2023 or 2024 on lner
GNER was the only true successful train operator on the ECML. A shame it's parent company got rid of them.
They actually we're stripped of the franchise by DfT
@@WestRail642fanGNER was government owned !!! Virgin replaced it
lner have said they are keeping some sets until 2022. some class 91s will be sent to wabtec for component recovery (spare parts) and europheonix is sending some to bulgaria for use on freight trains. I heard a company was interested in operating 91s on the west coast main line aswell. so it looks like they will be around for quite sometime yet.
Grand Central was planning to run Cl90 + Mk4 sets but this has been cancelled due to the pandemic.
At time of writing five services using class 91, are left
I do wonder what they'd have been capable of had they had dedicated highspeed track with in cab signalling to run on - and had they been run like TGVs woth a loco at either end instead of one loco and a DVT.
140mph was the intended running speed but lack of willingness to put investment into in-cab signalling put an end to it. Also, the OLE infrastructure cannot handle everyday running at speeds above 125mph - catenary too far apart and uses wire portals, so a persistent bow-wave ahead of the pantograph would've caused fast and excessive wear.
My experience of the MK 5 is very poor. You're quite right. Why is it we go backwards sometimes?
It’s 2020 now soon to be 2021.....what exactly is gonna happen to the fleet by the time current events affecting public transport become history in textbooks?
no chance of getting RUNNING TO TIME available for digital download from the store? Seeing this snippet makes me very curious...
It is on RUclips if you didn't realise.
What is the music in this and the original documentary please?
It seems that Roger Ford was a bit out regarding the power available for the Hybrid; shouldn't it be 2,250 + 6,480 HP = 8,730 BHP ?
At rail figure will be about 1,770 + 5,832 BHP = 7,602 BHP (using a guessed factor of 0.9 for class 91) 2:41
91029 has now been scrapped
could you do it as Download of Full Documentary for People who Not seen it at time or Put it into a History of Class 91/Mark 4 Film. That is option. Thank you For putting it up RUclips
`Running to time' - Equinox is on RUclips if you didn't know.
Was that Fred Dineage's dulcet tones I heard narrating?
Yes.
That geezer missed his train !
R D he did indeed.
Well they were right it was around in 2020 just not all of them.
Of the 36 built … 9 remain so many have been scrapped after all that mileage wow
Only 31 class 91s were built gor 36 train sets.
As a Driver, I'll give it another 20yrs until fully automatic Trains are running on the mainline
I wouldn’t be surprised either and hopefully the software would incorporate more coasting to safe energy. I intensely dislike the way trains are driven nowadays, especially Diesel trains with no coasting at all built into the driving style.
Remember in steam days there were line side boards advising when to shut off steam to conserve energy? Apparently completely forgotten now. They can do it, as they did when there was a Diesel shortage, but no longer bother. I notice this on the Basingstoke to Salisbury (Waterloo to Exeter) line served by the Class 159s. Some drivers have more ‘feel’ and shutoff early but most don’t bother.
With the present situation of running long trains virtually empty it’s even more important.
Is this available on DVD?
Sorry, no, only on RUclips.
What is the date of this VHS video roughly?
around 2000.
I liked the look of the class 91s in the 90s but looking back on them in new colours, they really didnt age well when it came to design like the class 43 did, it suited the sharp lines in the intercity years and fitted with the sharp edge boxy shape designs of the 90s but it doesnt fit with the smooth and curvy corporate designs of today. they really should have incorporated more bevelled edges like the 43 had. reguardless of the aging compared to the class 43 pros and cons I happily bought a hornby of my 2 favourite ever uk trains. the intercity 225 livery class 91 and the intercity swallow 125 livery class 43 (and the merlin class 43). but yeah the one thing the 91 needed was bevels on the front
Well, happily the 225 sets have survived in service into 2020, though sadly in much reduced numbers. I hope they stick around a while longer as they are MUCH too good to scrap!
Funny how he criticised the original seats in the Mk4s as being "too hard and less attractive" that the HSTs.... I wonder what he would make of those appalling items in the Azuma!?
Being good doesn't always stop a train being scrapped. I was appalled that the original Eurostar trains were scrapped for example. I don't know why they couldn't have kept a proportion coming into Waterloo for those people travelling into London on the Southern networks if they had to build HS1. Travelling from Waterloo to Kings Cross negates the time advantage of HS1 for those coming into London via Waterloo. Personally I found 90 mph for the short journey to the tunnel quite adequate and enjoyed the beautiful Kent countryside that President Mitterand referred to. Notwithstanding an argument for HS1 is that 3rd rail can be unreliable in Winter.
@@Martindyna The early Eurostar sets were badly corroded in places due to the salty and humid conditions inside the tunnel. They were also high milage sets despite not being very old. I beleive that is the main reason they got scrapped. You are right that a "good train" isn't the criteria on whether it gets scraped or not, it is more down to their overall condition and maintenance costs, coupled with versatility. The Eurostar sets were complex units and thus not cheap to maintain and weren't ideal for use away from the HS1 route. The Mk4 sets however could run happily on just about anywhere with overhead wires so redeploying them elsewhere should not be an issue.
What are the retirement plans for the remaining sets? I’d love to go for a ride before they are gone if COVID allows.
They’re going to be around for a few more years at least. I am more than sure that LNER will set up a railtour when they do finally get replaced.
LOL, poor Queen bet she wishes she could go back to just naming trains.
There nearly all gone now
Its weird to see people giving a shit about ride quality!
Cars have gone the same way. Given the state of Britain's roads nowadays I'd be far happier with slightly more suspension travel and slightly taller tyres.
WOW classic 💖
91s are workhorses glad LNER are keeping five sets spare and none are being scrapped
That was wishful thinking. Now many have been scrapped, and LNER are expected to put in an addition AT300 order with Hitachi at any time to replace their last few 225's.
@@duncanbhaltaireanraigwilso9627 thats unlikely, chances are theyre planning to retain their 91s for the forseeable future, else they wouldnt be currently bothering with overhauling and refurbishing + reliverying their remaining sets
So is the guy still alive? 11:49
Roger Ford is, David Rollin sadly passed away not long ago.
I wonder if he is still alive. They not long finished service!!!
Roger Ford is, David Rollin sadly passed away not long ago.
Worth noting that several of the Class 91s are still in service with LNER.
Anyone else shocked the queen actually pulled the curtain cord herself and not some peasants
Sad to say David Rollin passed away recently from Covid.
Yes very sad. He was only 73 or so. It is ironic that he passed away at a very similar point in time to the demise of his class 91 Electra fleet...
@@video125com actually the programme running to time had a fairly large effect on me when I just at the dawn of my career...I decided I wanted into that world....today my company Robstech Consulting ltd is now involved in rail projects and I am now developing an AC traction drive for a client. My position now is a direct consequence of watching it go out on channel 4 all those years ago so I was particularly sad to learn of David's passing. Would have liked to have met him one day to say thank you.
Sad news indeed. I know a lot of people that work for his company. He took over Interfleet in the 90s and made it hugely successful.
True the hybrid units where shit off a shovel
so much for standardization!
NO FAIR WHY DIDN'T THEY KEEP THEM
I saw elizabeth
It’s more than 10 years they’ve been in service...
this documentary was made in 2000 so it was 10 years
Broooooo you took a kid at Edinburgh
Head End Power (Auxiliary Power)?
its more reffered to Electric Train Heating
they will come to cardiff ... possibly !!
Sort off! Transport For Wales purchased a number of MK4 coaches to replace the MK3 coaches on the Cardiff to Holyhead services.
@@joelharris1335 Grand Union are applying for permission to run 225 sets between Paddington and Cardiff too!
When did you find this out?
No we need them on the West Coast Mainline with Grand Union!!!
@@jackhstproductions649 I believe the Grand Union proposal has now taken over as a route for Grand Central
Great trains once they sorted their issues out - shame their time is coming to an end, they no longer travel the enitre length of the ECML and only 10 sets will remain in use.
Designed for freight and sleepers why can't we keep them for freight now then? Instead of scrapping them
I hear 91119 shall be going back to LNER Livery what a shame.
*sigh* of all the liveries...
Meanwhile, in France......
I miss the days where you could have proper livery without colour coded doors. It is overkill virtue signalling measure. There'll always be an excuse but in the end streamlined liveries ended with that policy.
Colour coded doors? What's that about I've not been on railways for a while.
@@vincitveritas3872 Trains in the UK used to be able to paint the entire train in a streamlined livery. Today the doors have to be a different colour to the rest of the train due to 'sight impaired people', but no-one was complaining about this for two centuries and everyone managed fine, especially when there used to be helpful people at stations. So now, a train can never have the beautiful streamlined liveries of trains in other countries, or indeed that we had with the class 91 above in the 1980's and 90's. But then so too the bogies own the trains now make the ride hard, rough riding and 'clunky' under the train. You no longer feel as though you are riding on a cushion. Further, first class is terrible today. As recently as just a a decade or two ago, first class meant plush, comfy seats, curtain, table cloths and even waiter service with uniforms! All gone. British Rail wasn't all good of course, but their trains ran faster and their on board comfort was far superior to today's trains... FAR superior. Just take a look at some old video footage of the class 91 sets from the 1990's - two different worlds.
@@richardwills-woodward5340 I know it's gone down hill. Did 1st class on Virgin on the push pull. Nice big breakfast, plenty of tea, staff around all the time with extras.
Couple of years ago small breakfast less tea.
Only bonus was on way back from Glasgow only 3 people in first class on last train so loads of extras as otherwise be thrown away.
@@vincitveritas3872 Absolutely, today there is no point in paying for first class - you don't get anything! (as you say). I am sad to watch the system go down hill. I can't travel on the new trains, because my back can't take the horrific seats for more than half an hour (deeply uncomfortable) and I can't stand the rough riding. Our trains used to more feel like gliding in many ways, not so now. Progress? No...not at all. Another gripe is travel times - these are getting worse too. Few minutes here, few minutes there adds up. They keep changing crews on the way - never used to happen! Just drive the damn train, stay on the train and do the return journey. The bureaucracy in railways now has killed the industry and people are treated like lemmings as customers but cuddled and smothered in cotton wool if they are staff that don't care about the journey. Staff have got much worse too. Effectively we have teams of useless people that don't even dress in their uniforms properly. They would not have lasted two seconds even in the 1990's.
24 minutes and 21 seconds in....do you remember when it was like this? 1991. ruclips.net/video/07DvZ37SZkw/видео.html
Pity they can't be used for freight in pairs.
I'm pretty sure they can! In fact I think that is the plan for the batch that are being exported for fright use. They have to be down geared though - gearing for 140mph on a freight train would be senseless!
Yes. We need electrics on freight in this country.
Seats are too hard. And they complain about iron boards now. Haha
Should have stuck to Deltics
When all said and done, the 225 concept was a big flop in my opinion. Mainly due to the infrastructure not being up to it on the whole network. All that expense on installing flashing green signalling system to a locomotive that spent 99% of it’s time travelling at 125Mph and still being called a inter-city 225. Even when a class 90 substituted them in the later days, the time was generally not lost cause the 91s were poor on acceleration compared to the class 90.
And this is why I can never get my head around our country needing HS2 and HS3, billions being wasted, many countryside's ripped up, homes being destroyed all to save about 25 minutes on these trains.
As a matter of interest from Wikipedia ..... `Another loco (91031, now 91131), hauling five Mk4s and a DVT on a test run, ran between London King's Cross and Edinburgh Waverley in 3 hours, 29 minutes and 30 seconds on 26 September 1991. This is still the current record. The set covered the route in an average speed of 112.5 mph (181.1 km/h) and reached the full 140 mph (225 km/h) several times during the run.'
I'm against HS2 and believe it will be an expensive white elephant unless all national flights between Southern England and Scotland are banned on environmental grounds.
Regarding the capacity argument I don't see how this holds water when existing trains on the west & east coast main lines are comparitively short compared to Eurostar trains.
@Kevin Wake, I completely agree with you. And in the current circumstances, I would think it the last thing that they would want to be doing, spending (wasting) so much money.
How on earth does this program have any bearing on whether HSR is justifiable? The problem with high speed trains is that it’s a nightmare to timetable them. If you move Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, York, Newcastle express trains onto their own pair of tracks, stations like Milton Keynes, Grantham, Newark, Retford, Darlington and those along the Trent Valley are able to have more stopping trains.
@@Martindyna capacity is for slower fright trains to be able to access the track, as such you can't do 140 behind a 75mph freight, also eurostart trains don't fit into UK plaftorms like they do in the custom built systems in europe, oh wait thats what HS2 is for.
"veitles"
typical the one regret of engineers 'the seats' aka the one part of the train the customer experiences the most. and it just gets worse every new set of trains ffs. i hate engineers
I never really liked the aesthetic of these trains. It looked like someone was trying to design a new HST, but couldn't draw without a ruler.
The 225 is just as good looking as the HST
@@kylestrainspotting1997 These things are very subjective. I just find it a bit ugly an unfinished in its design. It just doesn't look as well thought out.
@@sgthree So how are they supposed to look?
@@kylestrainspotting1997 As I say, it is subjective, and I prefer the HST. It's not a crime to dislike something
@@kylestrainspotting1997 The HST is a classic piece of industrial design. The 91 certainly looked good when new but, to my eyes it's simply not as attractive. Looks-wise, the dark bands of the original livery did a lot of the heavy lifting; the exposed buffers and drawgear do it no favours either.
Channel 4 before all the left wing crap
Someone always has to drag politics in... Have a day off.
Designed years after the 125 and yet significantly uglier.