22:30 sums the whole thing up for me. And I really wish history (via some boozy journos) hadn't judged the APT project a "failure". It wasn't. It was groundbreaking and led to innovations we use now. A shame the top brass couldn't see how far it had come.
@@seansands424 If you live in the UK, go down to Crewe heritage centre, there’s an original APT-P there, and sometimes they make tilt! I’ve seen it before
The opening and closing music is John Foxx Twilight's Last Gleaming from his 1983 album The Golden Section. I played some of this album today strangly enough. The trouble with railways in the UK is that our visionless politicians from both the Labour and Conservitive parties have never ever truly loved railways. The victorians built all of our current network other that a few tinkered bits here and there. Dr Beeching decimated our railway network and it has never really recovered. He never saw that it was all the capilleries of those rural and suburban branch lines fed the main lines. They keep going on about the lack of capacity on our rail network. But who's fault is that? Beeching I think and his boss crook Marples, who was transport secretary at the time. And guess what? He had stakes in the company the was building the M1 and M6 motorwars. So both had very big vested interests. Also Marples saw the railways as direct competition to his road building company. We could do with reopening most of the Beeching lines to increase capacity on our network. Beeching destroyed around about a third of our network. Whole communities were then cut off. Especially in the Welsh Vally's. They have consequently never recovered either. Beeching destroyed more of our rail network that Hitlers bombers ever did. Beeching also was an ex ICI croney boss that had no idea how to run a railway, why would you put someone like him in charge of our railway infrastructe and network that knows little or nothing about railways. The whole Beeching/Marples was a big corperate stitch up to close the railways down. that was the true hidden agenda there and the same could be the said with the APT train. our political class purely and simply does not see what a great asset our rail network really is. France, Germany, China and Japan do though. We sould look to them as a way to design and develop a rail netowrk and set about emulating it. Such irony, since we invented the railways. The thing is, the Victorians built all our network and in recent year we have not built a single mile of new railkway lines. Just look at the Midland main line electrification. What a debacle, it is stopping way short of the origianl full electrification. Isn't this the usual case with how we in the UK develop and improve our railways? Way too sort term to me. No vision with any of this lot, no vision at all. To me it is discusting. The same could be said of the GWR, the electrification will not be going to swaths of Welsh communites. A shambolic set of of events and planning. In East Anglia, there are swaths of Norfolk and Suffolk without modern, fast reliable clean electric rail. Some lines have until just recently trundled along at a pinsly 30 to 40 MPH. This is really not fit for purpose in a 21st century modern rail system. I really do think that the railways have not moved on much since the demise of this APT. What an innovative rail system we would have had if we would have just been patiant with the APT and been more committed to ironing out what ever rough spots were at the time. The APT, a true travesty. Right, this is me done.
@Sid Vicious "it's all Brecon until North Wales" (from South Wales) - huh...? The most obvious closure is the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line, which should never have closed and whose potential reopening was given an expensive feasability study a few years ago. Spend the 1 billion pounds and crack on I say.
The power car in the middle was something I couldn't quite figure out...in effect giving you two trains, was there a solution to load the two halves evenly so you didn't have the front standing full and 50% open seats in the rear.
What THIS viewer remembers is that, as a pupil at Tupton Hall Comp School wor the ripping up off olde sleepers and track and the relaying of concrete sleepers etc down at the bottom of the then school playing fields in anticipation of this new train. Just N of Clay X tunnel, date 73/4.
It's a cliche to say that every failure is an opportunity for learning and improvement, but that really is true in this case! The IC225 became hugely successful as result. Plus today we have tilting trains that actually work!
Killed off by short sightedness and ever increasing under investment. During the war (both) the railways were run into the ground, and when they started getting over them, along came the hatchet man to close many miles, make redundancies and close works and depots Many thanks Dr Beeching.
Without Beeching there would now be even fewer route miles. The APT-P as shown in this film was only ever a prototype and was an inefficient layout. It should never have been put into service.
@@purplepioneer5644 the Italians started in 1969. However, it was the Ameticsns who started the ball rolling and the Spanish who introduced the first tilting trains into regular service in the 1950s. These were passive tilt systems and not the active system the Italians introduced.
As a nation we failed to update our rail network after the war being old Victorian lines which the apt couldn't reach its full potential. Whereas Europe rebuilt from scratch. The British attitude of make do and mend is what holds us back. A lack of vision and forethought.
Err, weren't we virtually bankrupt after the war? This is why we kept building steam locomotives long after other countries had moved to diesel and electric locomotives.
Neil of Longbeck agree but we always seem to be short sighted same with housing why have we still got Edwardian houses same problem lack investment & make do & mend
@@timtim4603 and what is wrong with Edwardian houses or other buildings from that period? Short-sighted would be to built diesels without the fuel to run them.
@Micah the Nerd Saxophonist Nope. Completely wrong. The US rebuilt lines to accommodate the switch to freight rail. In particular, a huge number of US bridges and tunnels were rebuilt to handle the world's largest loading gauge to accommodate intermodal freight. Nearly all US lines handle piggyback (road trailer driven onto a flatcar), and most lines accommodate doublestack containers. As a result, the US rail network handles more ton-miles of traffic today than point in history and any country. Compare this to Britain's infrastructure which has issues accommodating even a single ISO container. Britain's loading gauge can't even handle most continental European passenger rolling stock, which is why their trains have to be custom-built and expensive.
Were crew able to walk through the middle power car to either end of the train? If not, that’s a serious design flaw, obviously. They also need to build a test track and facility, like the one in Pueblo, Colorado
From memory there was a narrow corridor in the power cars. Would be amazing for there not to be since corridors had been put in steam loco coal tenders earlier on.
The biggest opportunity missed by BR in my opinion was the Modernisation Plan of the 1950’s. The money should’ve been put towards constructing dedicated high speed lines and not wasted on sprawling freight marshalling yards and countless diesel prototypes.
that was one of two NDMC (Non Driver Motor Cars), these had to stay vertical or the connection of the pantograph with the overhead wire would cause a lot of more quicker damage to the pantograph and the wire itself.
Yes, British Journos of the time were there to do the cheerleading for financial services innovation, berate any other form of it and bash British manufacturing.
BR management had no faith in it, it ended up being very expensive and plagued with teething problems with the tilt system that caused motion sickness. They deactivated the tilt system which rendered the train unable to exceed normal line speeds, which had been the entire point of it. So in the end it was more efficient to just run the intercity HSTs instead of the APT. One final disadvantage, the APT had a power car in the middle that split the train in half, passengers couldn't move through it, so they had to have sperate first class, standard class and buffet cars on either side of that car, doubling the staff.
*APT-E* was powered by 8 Leyland 2S/350 Gas Turbines (four in each Driver Power Car “DPC”). *APT-P* was powered by 25KV 50Hz AC overhead catenary and was propelled by two Non-Driver-Motor “NDM” cars. The APT-P was made of two sets coupled back to back so the “NDM” cars were always in the middle of the consist, there was not through-way gangway in the NDM cars so when the APT-P was in service, passengers could not freely walk from one end of the train to the other end like the APT-E.
Why is everyone so obsessed with speed? what is so important that people need to transported from say London to Birmingham in just over an hour when a hour and half would do just as well? We humans seem to spend our lives rushing here and there for no reason. We need to slow down and enjoy life before we all drop dead from stress.
It still doesn't answer the original question. I mean what are we going to do with all that 'spare time'? We have labour intensive devices that our parents didn't have and yet we still say that there is not enough hours in a day to do what we want. No wonder people are dropping dead all over the place, Covid rubbish, humans need to chill more and stop being in rush.
Another victim of BR bad HR & Organisational management; but the MAIN failure of APT falls at the door of Extremist Right Wing Political activity of the day, that (sadly) is alive now, as many Disabled & Vulnerable people will testify.
22:30 sums the whole thing up for me.
And I really wish history (via some boozy journos) hadn't judged the APT project a "failure". It wasn't. It was groundbreaking and led to innovations we use now. A shame the top brass couldn't see how far it had come.
I would love to see a Pendolino painted in the APT scheme.
Awesome idea!
Wouldn't they need to get permission from InterCity ? (That's if InterCity isn't in the dustbin)
I would love to see the APT
I would love to see a APT painted in the APT scheme. not a fareron one
@@seansands424 If you live in the UK, go down to Crewe heritage centre, there’s an original APT-P there, and sometimes they make tilt! I’ve seen it before
John Foxx "Twilights last gleaming" (of 1983's The Golden Section album) is the opening music
Best of train ever by gb😊
0:38 This Music Is So Funky. Thanks Mate. Ps This British Rail InterCity APT Train Looks Stunning. X
The best documentary on the APT I have seen to date.
The opening and closing music is John Foxx Twilight's Last Gleaming from his 1983 album The Golden Section. I played some of this album today strangly enough.
The trouble with railways in the UK is that our visionless politicians from both the Labour and Conservitive parties have never ever truly loved railways. The victorians built all of our current network other that a few tinkered bits here and there.
Dr Beeching decimated our railway network and it has never really recovered. He never saw that it was all the capilleries of those rural and suburban branch lines fed the main lines. They keep going on about the lack of capacity on our rail network. But who's fault is that? Beeching I think and his boss crook Marples, who was transport secretary at the time. And guess what? He had stakes in the company the was building the M1 and M6 motorwars. So both had very big vested interests. Also Marples saw the railways as direct competition to his road building company.
We could do with reopening most of the Beeching lines to increase capacity on our network. Beeching destroyed around about a third of our network. Whole communities were then cut off. Especially in the Welsh Vally's. They have consequently never recovered either. Beeching destroyed more of our rail network that Hitlers bombers ever did. Beeching also was an ex ICI croney boss that had no idea how to run a railway, why would you put someone like him in charge of our railway infrastructe and network that knows little or nothing about railways. The whole Beeching/Marples was a big corperate stitch up to close the railways down. that was the true hidden agenda there and the same could be the said with the APT train. our political class purely and simply does not see what a great asset our rail network really is. France, Germany, China and Japan do though. We sould look to them as a way to design and develop a rail netowrk and set about emulating it. Such irony, since we invented the railways.
The thing is, the Victorians built all our network and in recent year we have not built a single mile of new railkway lines. Just look at the Midland main line electrification. What a debacle, it is stopping way short of the origianl full electrification. Isn't this the usual case with how we in the UK develop and improve our railways? Way too sort term to me. No vision with any of this lot, no vision at all. To me it is discusting. The same could be said of the GWR, the electrification will not be going to swaths of Welsh communites. A shambolic set of of events and planning.
In East Anglia, there are swaths of Norfolk and Suffolk without modern, fast reliable clean electric rail. Some lines have until just recently trundled along at a pinsly 30 to 40 MPH. This is really not fit for purpose in a 21st century modern rail system. I really do think that the railways have not moved on much since the demise of this APT. What an innovative rail system we would have had if we would have just been patiant with the APT and been more committed to ironing out what ever rough spots were at the time. The APT, a true travesty.
Right, this is me done.
@Sid Vicious "it's all Brecon until North Wales" (from South Wales) - huh...? The most obvious closure is the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line, which should never have closed and whose potential reopening was given an expensive feasability study a few years ago. Spend the 1 billion pounds and crack on I say.
Beeching only recommended, Wilson's labour government wielded the axe.
great video
A good part of an APT is on show at the Crewe Railway Heritage Centre.
The power car in the middle was something I couldn't quite figure out...in effect giving you two trains, was there a solution to load the two halves evenly so you didn't have the front standing full and 50% open seats in the rear.
What THIS viewer remembers is that, as a pupil at Tupton Hall Comp School wor the ripping up off olde sleepers and track and the relaying of concrete sleepers etc down at the bottom of the then school playing fields in anticipation of this new train.
Just N of Clay X tunnel, date 73/4.
It's a cliche to say that every failure is an opportunity for learning and improvement, but that really is true in this case! The IC225 became hugely successful as result. Plus today we have tilting trains that actually work!
The pendolino looks so good.
Killed off by short sightedness and ever increasing under investment. During the war (both) the railways were run into the ground, and when they started getting over them, along came the hatchet man to close many miles, make redundancies and close works and depots Many thanks Dr Beeching.
Without Beeching there would now be even fewer route miles. The APT-P as shown in this film was only ever a prototype and was an inefficient layout. It should never have been put into service.
The corny yet dramatic background music....the narrator speaking with a slightly clipped accent. It's all so 80's! lol
Hahaha yeh agree
APT too much too soon , now the WCML has Pendolinos which in affect are a modern posher version of the APT
daystatesniper01 the italians were also developing tilting trains and called theirs pendolino, which is where the WCML trains are derived
@@purplepioneer5644 the Italians started in 1969. However, it was the Ameticsns who started the ball rolling and the Spanish who introduced the first tilting trains into regular service in the 1950s. These were passive tilt systems and not the active system the Italians introduced.
sure would love to see the APT-E brought out and run
It's such a great looking train! Seeing that in the 1970s must have been mind blowing!
As a nation we failed to update our rail network after the war being old Victorian lines which the apt couldn't reach its full potential. Whereas Europe rebuilt from scratch. The British attitude of make do and mend is what holds us back. A lack of vision and forethought.
And now HS2 is in jeopardy. We need HS2 and we need it quick and as a long railway
Err, weren't we virtually bankrupt after the war? This is why we kept building steam locomotives long after other countries had moved to diesel and electric locomotives.
Neil of Longbeck agree but we always seem to be short sighted same with housing why have we still got Edwardian houses same problem lack investment & make do & mend
@@timtim4603 and what is wrong with Edwardian houses or other buildings from that period? Short-sighted would be to built diesels without the fuel to run them.
@Micah the Nerd Saxophonist Nope. Completely wrong. The US rebuilt lines to accommodate the switch to freight rail. In particular, a huge number of US bridges and tunnels were rebuilt to handle the world's largest loading gauge to accommodate intermodal freight. Nearly all US lines handle piggyback (road trailer driven onto a flatcar), and most lines accommodate doublestack containers. As a result, the US rail network handles more ton-miles of traffic today than point in history and any country.
Compare this to Britain's infrastructure which has issues accommodating even a single ISO container. Britain's loading gauge can't even handle most continental European passenger rolling stock, which is why their trains have to be custom-built and expensive.
0:40 And your driver today will be the Rt. Hon. Enoch Powell, M.P.
Were crew able to walk through the middle power car to either end of the train? If not, that’s a serious design flaw, obviously. They also need to build a test track and facility, like the one in Pueblo, Colorado
why would they want to?
From memory there was a narrow corridor in the power cars. Would be amazing for there not to be since corridors had been put in steam loco coal tenders earlier on.
The biggest opportunity missed by BR in my opinion was the Modernisation Plan of the 1950’s. The money should’ve been put towards constructing dedicated high speed lines and not wasted on sprawling freight marshalling yards and countless diesel prototypes.
Do you have a degree in hindsight?
@@steveluckhurst2350 A masters actually
@@blueskiesabove3950 The same as everyone else then!
How about intercity 125, its a beautiful diesel
@@daanvos194 Oh yes, I forgot. They were abundant in the 1950s weren't they?
Unfortunately still happening today on UK railways. No thought for future
The shot at 3:51 sums it up: the sixth car failing to tilt.
that was one of two NDMC (Non Driver Motor Cars), these had to stay vertical or the connection of the pantograph with the overhead wire would cause a lot of more quicker damage to the pantograph and the wire itself.
I don't think I've ever seen or heard a perfect Prototype, obviously not meant to happen
amazing train. shame the british press crapped all over it. the uk never led the world again with high speed trains.
Yes, British Journos of the time were there to do the cheerleading for financial services innovation, berate any other form of it and bash British manufacturing.
I think I'll stick to history documentaries
Horns:
1:37
5:15
9:40
15:41
19:37
20:48
The APT-E worked, why did they change it?
BR management had no faith in it, it ended up being very expensive and plagued with teething problems with the tilt system that caused motion sickness. They deactivated the tilt system which rendered the train unable to exceed normal line speeds, which had been the entire point of it. So in the end it was more efficient to just run the intercity HSTs instead of the APT.
One final disadvantage, the APT had a power car in the middle that split the train in half, passengers couldn't move through it, so they had to have sperate first class, standard class and buffet cars on either side of that car, doubling the staff.
There was a fairly serious potential safety problem with the wheel sets, but they ran it back anyway ha.
Was the apt - e powered by diesel?
Yes, via gas turbine, generator and electric motor
*APT-E* was powered by 8 Leyland 2S/350 Gas Turbines (four in each Driver Power Car “DPC”).
*APT-P* was powered by 25KV 50Hz AC overhead catenary and was propelled by two Non-Driver-Motor “NDM” cars. The APT-P was made of two sets coupled back to back so the “NDM” cars were always in the middle of the consist, there was not through-way gangway in the NDM cars so when the APT-P was in service, passengers could not freely walk from one end of the train to the other end like the APT-E.
Why is Enoch Powell driving the train?
I was wondering the same!
Underwriting/Marketing Corruption
Why is everyone so obsessed with speed? what is so important that people need to transported from say London to Birmingham in just over an hour when a hour and half would do just as well? We humans seem to spend our lives rushing here and there for no reason. We need to slow down and enjoy life before we all drop dead from stress.
sounds good I’ll be half an hour late to my moms funeral
Speed and Power, it doesnt get more british than that
It's called innovation
It still doesn't answer the original question. I mean what are we going to do with all that 'spare time'? We have labour intensive devices that our parents didn't have and yet we still say that there is not enough hours in a day to do what we want. No wonder people are dropping dead all over the place, Covid rubbish, humans need to chill more and stop being in rush.
@@peterbattey8263 What are you talking about? Are you suggesting that high speed trains cause Covid?
What is Enoch Powell doing driving the train?? ;)
Ha! 😆😆
Rory Kinnear is there too.
Shame he wasnt listened to, then we wouldnt be buying trains from elsewhere.
I just made the same comment! Haha
The death of British rail innovation.
Death of Britain killed by traitors
@@seansands424 you mean the general public.
Another victim of BR bad HR & Organisational management; but the MAIN failure of APT falls at the door of Extremist Right Wing Political activity of the day, that (sadly) is alive now, as many Disabled & Vulnerable people will testify.