PAT, I was just over on Crosscutsawyer and saw your link to this video. THANKS!!!!! for actually taking the time to demonstrate how how to vertically set the teeth. I've seen Warren Millers vids, but your thirty second video just cements how setting the teeth can be accomplished. I wish you would do a video on how to use the other types of teeth setters: Spiders, anvils, and the hammer-looking setters. Thanks again.
96 geometro Setting teeth on heavy gauge saws like Chinooks, etc. takes a pretty good swing, not to mention aim. Doing it sideways from the opposite side of a saw can be risky. Hammering straight down on a supported anvil gives me more control. I don't use a "setting tool" other than my home made hammer head, though I've experimented with grip-type setters. I always come back to my hammer head.
Hi Dan, I built a "Dolly Vise" last year that just needs to finished. Just cosmetic, works very well indeed. I have an idea to but a small shelf type insert into the main body of the vise to take the hammer/anvil. should work. If I do it I will put photos on the crosscut forum. I know its all gone quite over here but we will get going again and get some interesting information out of the museum. Keep up with the videos they all help who ever makes them. Kind regards Duncan.
great video, and l really like the set up, Ive been using the Warren Miller style, it can be awkward. Im curious if you often have trouble with teeth breaking when restoring old saws? Ive restored 9 now and about half of them on average have more than one tooth break off while setting. Ive tried both hammer setting and a large pistol grip type, and when a saw is having the issue it doesnt seem to matter what set style I use, they break. Most of the problem saws only lose a few teeth, and the rest are just fine and maliable enough. Uneven temper? Two of them went back on the wall after breaking over 1/4 of the teeth though, and Ive not had the time or heart to file off everthing and start again. Ive considered starting each new restoration by a quick temper of all the teeth with a file to a blue color with a torch, just to be safe, as its really been 50/50 odds on if they are gonna shatter for me. Really breaks my heart, especiallly after the hours leading up to the set! Anyway, Id like to know your experiences? Josh
I doubt if its uneven tempering I've seen that on Jemco and other modern saws that are stamped out on dull dies and finished with a grinder, though you are always at the mercy of how the previous filer treated the saw. Most of my hammer setting is done vertically, as I am more comfortable with the hammer/anvil control. I used the horizontal method on a few stubborn saws, but strike the teeth carefully. I'd rather tap a tooth 20 times and slowly bring it into the proper set than to give it a hard smack and risk breaking it. When I've watched people break teeth, it was mostly because of heavy-handed hammer swings. A secondary case of broken teeth is stress fractures caused by the heavy-handedness of the previous filer. I look closely for hairline cracks on all the teeth before I start working up a saw. I've seen it mostly on Simonds saws, particularly the #325. Some of those Simonds saws are tempered pretty hard, so propane can soften them a bit, just don't overdo it. I'm more likely to heat just the rakers for swaging than all the teeth. Where are you located? Southeast USA? www.crosscutsawyer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1340&p=6924&hilit=stress#p6924
Hi Dan, Gavin tried to show me this way of setting. But I was sticking with what I know,now having seen it in action I will give it a try. It looks a very relaxed way of doing things. Things a bit mad over here as I am trying to move so I have had to put Sheffield on hold but should meet up with Gavin on Saturday. will let you know how we get on with the master plan. Cheers Duncan.
DUNCAN HILL Duncan - One needs a bench/vise combination that allows hammering down. You could do the same thing on a flat top bench with a piece of plate steel beneath the saw, but it's more difficult to check the set.
I've been lurking on the crosscut saw forum and saw you mention how you use that handheld dial gauge rather than a traditional four leg spider. Are there any drawbacks? I like the idea of eliminating the guess work as well as not having to keep track of multiple spiders set to different tolerances, but I don't have any first hand filing experience to base my opinion on. That said, I'm planning on taking the USFS filing class over in Missoula next year so I'm trying to workout what should be in my toolbox
This is an old video from back when I was trying different techniques. Today I set most big saw teeth on a 50lb. bench anvil made from a forklift tine. Is this the forum you mean: facebook.com/groups/Sawfilers I post a lot on that one and there are many other saw filers who answer questions and talk techniques. Watch my saw filing video and look at how I compare dial gauges with spiders. The dial gauges work best on flat saws where the teeth have been hammer set, since the tooth bend happens farther up the cutter. Saws that are dished or teeth that were wrested will throw a dial gauge set way off, as the gauges feet are not on a flat surface. Spider feet sit well below the tooth, and while slower, can be more accurate in some uses. Regarding your tool box, don't buy ANY tools from the Crosscut Saw Company. Quality is WAY inferior. Start surfing eBay for gauges and other gear. My personal gear bag has an Atkins #4 hammer, Anderson raker gauge, Atkins #15 pin gauge, home-made dial raker gauge, dial set gauge, and several spiders.
cool set up. I've just acquired a Maebiki nokogiri from Japan than I'm going to use for ripping. Need to joint and set most likely but I've never done it before! This seems like a very elegant solution. Pardon my ignorance but are you tapping very close to the end of the tooth (it's hard to tell), so that it bends over the bevel on the lump hammer? And is that some kind of slant level? So much to learn!
+El Woods I'm tapping about 1/4" or less back from the tip. The bevel is much steeper than what I want for a final tooth position, so I stop after a few strikes to check the set. The small teeth of a Japanese saw would be a challenge to strike with a hammer. Perhaps you can use a small punch and strike that.
PAT, I was just over on Crosscutsawyer and saw your link to this video. THANKS!!!!! for actually taking the time to demonstrate how how to vertically set the teeth. I've seen Warren Millers vids, but your thirty second video just cements how setting the teeth can be accomplished. I wish you would do a video on how to use the other types of teeth setters: Spiders, anvils, and the hammer-looking setters. Thanks again.
96 geometro Setting teeth on heavy gauge saws like Chinooks, etc. takes a pretty good swing, not to mention aim. Doing it sideways from the opposite side of a saw can be risky. Hammering straight down on a supported anvil gives me more control. I don't use a "setting tool" other than my home made hammer head, though I've experimented with grip-type setters. I always come back to my hammer head.
Hi Dan, I built a "Dolly Vise" last year that just needs to finished. Just cosmetic, works very well indeed. I have an idea to but a small shelf type insert into the main body of the vise to take the hammer/anvil. should work. If I do it I will put photos on the crosscut forum. I know its all gone quite over here but we will get going again and get some interesting information out of the museum. Keep up with the videos they all help who ever makes them. Kind regards Duncan.
great video, and l really like the set up, Ive been using the Warren Miller style, it can be awkward. Im curious if you often have trouble with teeth breaking when restoring old saws? Ive restored 9 now and about half of them on average have more than one tooth break off while setting. Ive tried both hammer setting and a large pistol grip type, and when a saw is having the issue it doesnt seem to matter what set style I use, they break. Most of the problem saws only lose a few teeth, and the rest are just fine and maliable enough. Uneven temper? Two of them went back on the wall after breaking over 1/4 of the teeth though, and Ive not had the time or heart to file off everthing and start again.
Ive considered starting each new restoration by a quick temper of all the teeth with a file to a blue color with a torch, just to be safe, as its really been 50/50 odds on if they are gonna shatter for me. Really breaks my heart, especiallly after the hours leading up to the set!
Anyway, Id like to know your experiences?
Josh
I doubt if its uneven tempering I've seen that on Jemco and other modern saws that are stamped out on dull dies and finished with a grinder, though you are always at the mercy of how the previous filer treated the saw. Most of my hammer setting is done vertically, as I am more comfortable with the hammer/anvil control. I used the horizontal method on a few stubborn saws, but strike the teeth carefully. I'd rather tap a tooth 20 times and slowly bring it into the proper set than to give it a hard smack and risk breaking it. When I've watched people break teeth, it was mostly because of heavy-handed hammer swings. A secondary case of broken teeth is stress fractures caused by the heavy-handedness of the previous filer. I look closely for hairline cracks on all the teeth before I start working up a saw. I've seen it mostly on Simonds saws, particularly the #325. Some of those Simonds saws are tempered pretty hard, so propane can soften them a bit, just don't overdo it. I'm more likely to heat just the rakers for swaging than all the teeth. Where are you located? Southeast USA? www.crosscutsawyer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1340&p=6924&hilit=stress#p6924
Great system! I'm going to build one like it.
Hi Dan, Gavin tried to show me this way of setting. But I was sticking with what I know,now having seen it in action I will give it a try. It looks a very relaxed way of doing things. Things a bit mad over here as I am trying to move so I have had to put Sheffield on hold but should meet up with Gavin on Saturday. will let you know how we get on with the master plan. Cheers Duncan.
DUNCAN HILL Duncan - One needs a bench/vise combination that allows hammering down. You could do the same thing on a flat top bench with a piece of plate steel beneath the saw, but it's more difficult to check the set.
I've been lurking on the crosscut saw forum and saw you mention how you use that handheld dial gauge rather than a traditional four leg spider. Are there any drawbacks? I like the idea of eliminating the guess work as well as not having to keep track of multiple spiders set to different tolerances, but I don't have any first hand filing experience to base my opinion on. That said, I'm planning on taking the USFS filing class over in Missoula next year so I'm trying to workout what should be in my toolbox
This is an old video from back when I was trying different techniques. Today I set most big saw teeth on a 50lb. bench anvil made from a forklift tine. Is this the forum you mean: facebook.com/groups/Sawfilers
I post a lot on that one and there are many other saw filers who answer questions and talk techniques. Watch my saw filing video and look at how I compare dial gauges with spiders. The dial gauges work best on flat saws where the teeth have been hammer set, since the tooth bend happens farther up the cutter. Saws that are dished or teeth that were wrested will throw a dial gauge set way off, as the gauges feet are not on a flat surface. Spider feet sit well below the tooth, and while slower, can be more accurate in some uses.
Regarding your tool box, don't buy ANY tools from the Crosscut Saw Company. Quality is WAY inferior. Start surfing eBay for gauges and other gear. My personal gear bag has an Atkins #4 hammer, Anderson raker gauge, Atkins #15 pin gauge, home-made dial raker gauge, dial set gauge, and several spiders.
cool set up.
I've just acquired a Maebiki nokogiri from Japan than I'm going to use for ripping. Need to joint and set most likely but I've never done it before! This seems like a very elegant solution. Pardon my ignorance but are you tapping very close to the end of the tooth (it's hard to tell), so that it bends over the bevel on the lump hammer? And is that some kind of slant level? So much to learn!
+El Woods I'm tapping about 1/4" or less back from the tip. The bevel is much steeper than what I want for a final tooth position, so I stop after a few strikes to check the set. The small teeth of a Japanese saw would be a challenge to strike with a hammer. Perhaps you can use a small punch and strike that.