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Who is the lantern man in Phantom of the Opera?
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- Опубликовано: 9 ноя 2017
- Extreme Nerdy Horror Trivia. Who is the lantern man who appears in the beginning of the silent public domain Lon Chaney classic Phantom of the Opera? Also a comparison between the 1925 version, the 1929/30 sound version, and the two reconstructed versions that exist today. #retro #retrogaming #nes #snes #jamesrolfe #mikematei #atari #playthrough #gameplay #gamereview
After the cardboard video, I realized that I will watch pretty much anything if James Rolfe is in it.
James genuinely loves this stuff. It's hard not to get into it when he does it.
I realized that a long time ago. He's just a huge nerd with an encyclopedia for a brain of shit you didn't know you cared about until he starts talking about it.
He's so much more than the AVGN and I'm so happy he's gotten to share that into 2017 and beyond.
I don't understand... This kind of video is clearly more valueable than playing some obscure nes games. Those are the ones I purely watch for James and Mike.
Well to be fair it's interesting if you like movies especially old movies. It's like analyzing a detail in a painting.
Facts.
I can tell you when i saw a version as a young kid, word cards came up
"Who goes there?"
"Oh its you, Well if your coming we'd best keep hushed tones lest the Phantom hears.
"He's Here! Here he comes now! Hide !"
"That was close"
Or some such dialogue
How old are you? :O
Not as old as you think lol There were 3 channels on TV in the UK back then so I watched all the old movies during daytime television.
@@Novasky2007 Ah, so you didn't hear the original lines.
Silent movie boards were added to the scene. i guess i will never know who or why they were added or since lost. But i watched that version lots of times. One of my favourites as a child. I was an odd child.
makes sense.
Stuff like this is why James is one of the best entertainers on the internet!
true
Him or James a janise
Maybe the lantern man supposed to do the same Edward van Sloane did in his intro for Frankenstein a couple of years later. To warn the audience of the terrifying motion picture. Maybe just the title cards are missing or the were never inserted.
Michael Breidenbach I think you're right. The man with a lantern scene looks like some sort introduction.
Beware audience! The Phantom is known to roam this place! Ah, there he is, hide! We were lucky this time ladies and gentlemen! Beware, for I dare not press my luck any further, you shall be on your own!
Eidlones That sounds fitting.
Eidlones Omg that was perfect, lol
Have you ever read the book? There is a scene with a rat catcher that I can believe the lantern guy was based off and just got dropped from various releases.
Absolutely love these examinations of odd moments in old film! Things many of us might never have given a second thought yet you manage to delve so deep into them.
Nicholasryan17 yet this caught me. Comment caught me off guard
Weeell there is a man with a lantern in the book, the rat catcher but he has nothing to do with the phantom, he just gets mistaken for the phantom from time to time because his lantern inlluminates his face an makes it look like a burning skull/head. And if I remember things right, he wanders around in the lower levels of the opera in the absolut dark.
It would still be odd for the rat catcher to be right at the start. He showed up once in the book und was only mentioned one more time.
DaemonenprinzessinXD I think the rat catcher showed up later in the film when the Persian and Raoul try to get into the Phantom’s lair. I don’t remember him showing up at the beginning, though.
Sadly I never watched this film, but when the rat catcher shows up than the lantern guy in the beginning really is random.
Nice info man.
und? Deutsch much?
If he wanders in the dark what’s he need the lantern for
Please keep doing more videos like this and the cardboard one James, they're great. You have a far deeper knowledge of film history than most youtubers so it's great that you're teaching us about these things
duffman18 I agree.
People are always asking “Who is the lantern man?” But not “How is the lantern man?”
Potato Fish I'll do you one better, why is the lantern man?
Dead
@@waffleiron1959 where is the lantern man?
Maybe ...
Maybe he owns the Giant Claw.
He seems so scared, hope he's okay
Drax: "Why is the Lantern Man?"
"To get two film negatives, they decided to use two cameras next to each other"
Glad to know that Tommy Wiseau got his idea for his camera rig from 1920s hollywood.
What did you expect? He is the best modern film director
You know what they say... Love is blind
@@D2MightyDucks let's go eat ham. Everything is fine.
@@sergiowinter5383"We make real Hollywood movie!"
These videos about old movies are my favorite content you've produced all year. Amazing work. Please do more.
@サンドヴィッチ I mean , it's fitting (11:12)
@jack36 yes
Everything seems to point to the lantern man being in the '25 version, since there's even a close-up of him. I assume the intertitles were just lost for the scene when it was being reconstructed in both versions. Clearly he wasn't meant to speak directly to the audience, since there's a shot of him looking off-screen and talking. It's probably just your everyday "before the opening title" scene, to set the mood. And the man is probably saying something like "Who's there?" or something.
Also, the image quality of the '29 version is far better, but honestly, the poorer image quality, the angles and the overall acting in the '25 version looks way creepier imo.
On the Unholy 3 poster: *"Lon Chaney TALKS!"*
This cracks me up. It's like a cheesy toy commercial: "The new Lon Chaney action figure! He even TALKS!!" :D
It reminds me of where people put face reveal in the title to get views
I wish there was a talking Lon Chaney doll.
Even better that Lou Chaney sounds like a name of a perfume.
Back in the day, as you mentioned, they used transcripts and maybe some environmental music like a piano to introduce the audience to the movie, this was more often used in foreign countries because most of the audience didn't know to read english for example. Maybe he was just moving his lips to any transcript so local theaters introduce the film it's own way to attract more people and keep them entertained.
My guess is it's supposed to be the mysterious Ratcatcher. It's been a while since I read the book, so I might not remember such a character in it, yet it appears in almost every adaptation.
You remember right! He uses a lantern in the book
Rat catcher indeed. Or he could be Joseph Buquet. The world may never know
As much as I love reviews and top 10's, this kind of trying to solve mysteries in old classic horror movies are pretty good as well, and very unique and original
I find these analysis really interesting!
Thanks James for sharing your classic horror knowledge with us. Hope you keep making more videos like these.
This video's title intrigued me and simultaneously endeared me to James. Such a specific topic that includes film history, gothic elements, and the cuteness of passionate nerdery.
The lantern man is almost definitely the Ratcatcher. He appears once in the book. He seems to know slightly more about the Phantom than everyone else, probably because he shares the sewers with him. They seem to have an understanding. The Ratcatcher is also mistaken for the Phantom once or twice, though not named; his lantern sometimes gives him the appearance of a "death's head" in the dark.
There's an upload of the Eastman print here on RUclips, colorized, without the Ratcatcher scene. It _does_ feature the colorized scene of Erik on the roof.
Since at this moment in history motion pictures were blended with theatrical elements, I just always figured the Lantern Man was addressing the audience about the movie they were about to watch, in the same way at the beginning of Frankenstein (1931) we see that guy emerge from the curtain, warning the people of the "horrors" they're about to witness.
Almost certainly along those lines. I would say he was filmed originally in 25.
James is becoming the vsauce of classic movies, i love it.
Hey Cinemassacre, James here!
what is a vsauce ^^
@@Baleur vsauce is vsauce
@@hmph3262 no vsauce is Micheal either that or we are supposed to be vsauce as his intro is "hey vsauce, Micheal here"
@@theninjamaster67 thanks
Just for the record, this and the Dracula cardboard video are easily my favourite new Cinemassacre videos this year. This is like the kind of textual scholarship on medieval literature that I would read during the more "serious" parts of the day, and I LOVE it. I hope there are more on the way.
Your enthusiasm always makes these videos a joy to watch. Heck, you could probably make a video about cardboard and make it entertaining.
He did.
Two cameras simultaneously? Were they trying to be Tommy Wiseau???
Who doesn't want to be Tommy?
I DID NAWT HIET HER, ISNT TRUUE IS BOULLSHEIT, I DID NAWT... Oh hi Mark.
Anyway, hows your sex life?
Haha...
What a story -Mark- James.
aw hi dawgie
Where's my "Classic Horror Film Oddities" Cinematic Universe? They could start with the Cardboard movie, move on to the Lantern Man movie and so on.
the lantern man put the cardboard on the lamp
Already exists. It's called the Dark Universe.
I was about to contradict you, but I'm pretty sure there was at least one cardboard box in The Mummy.
Bolbi Stragnavowski and then put the cardboard lamp in the Psycho house
@@daroachdoggjr5799 Still be better than the dark universe.
The lantern man scene exists only in the "Blackhawk" restoration of the film, which is most often shown in the US. There is another equally notable version of the film, restored in the UK, known as the "Photoplay" version, and it does not have the lantern man scene. The two versions are mostly identical save for that scene.
Do more of this James, it's pretty cool.
The lantern man scene is actually disturbingly creepy
No it's not.
Yeah it's really unnerving, the mystery around it only makes it even more uncomfortable
@@citizendame6329 don't be a bitch about it.
Even more when you realize that he is long dead
I was just thinking about this.
In my opinion it's a speech about the movie.. possibly a warning about the phantom
Most likely was, it was a scene made most likely for the sound version that has since been spliced into multiple versions of the film
The original novel has the author reffer to a person we never see on screen, and Leroux makes it a point to say how he cannot possibly reveal who it may be, and it never gets brought up again. The "shade" as it is known.
It says “far beneath the magnificent paris opera house is an intricate maze of cellars used once as dungeons and torture chambers- the grim relics of an age of cruelty, intolerance and oppression.” Next title card “But who thinks of cellulars- dismal haunts of creeping things - when the Paris opera house stages a ballet?”
What does?
James should make a podcast. I could listen to this kind of talk for hours and podcasts are so convenient
This is way more convenient for me than a podcast.
He should go to WorldClassBullshitters.
Delightful video, James. Keep it up!
He's the opera house's rat catcher in the book. The film just didn't explain who he is.
Never stop making videos James. These trivia videos are just awesome!
Two cameras cranking simultaneously was sometimes the way they achieved foreign prints back then. Another method was to use the 2nd best take for scenes.
There are actually quite a few silent films that only exist in their foreign versions, close enough, but not the version that US audiences saw upon release.
Considering that upwards of 80%+ of all silent films are lost, I’m just happy we have something at all.
I could listen to James talk about classic horror films for hours.
I watched phantom of the opera a couple years back not knowing anything about and had no clue what the lantern man was about, except i assumed that it wouldve made sense to someone more familiar with old films and that i was just an uncultured idiot. Turns out no one knows what the deal is :P
I can just imagine this conversation.
You: excuse me, I have a question about an old horror film.
Horror Film Expert: oh really? Go ahead, ask!
You: in the beginning of Phantom of the Opera, there’s a guy with a lantern and I don’t get why he’s there. Do you happen to know why he’s there?
Horror Film Expert: Shit, I don’t fucking know.
Since the movie was quickly edited 2 extra times before general audiences saw it, it's amazing that the movie isn't a total mess. That answers almost every possible question about the film.
You idiot. You fool. How do you know know who the lantern man is.
The VHS I got, when lantern man appeared, had a voiceover starting, “this production was made in 1925, before the invention of sound motion picture”, & ended with, “is a tribute to cinema history.”
That...is...one of the best videos on RUclips! Absolutely captivating mystery stuff...Thank you!
What if is actually James Rolfe. Maybe in the future he travels back in time to 1920's~ by accident and couldn't came back. So he goes to what he loves, making movies. With all of his knowledge he deliberately participated (acted, directed, etc) on this kind of movie mysteries so he would not leave a record on who he is to prevent history to be altered; making this video a time-travel loop.
(Yeah i've been watching Board James lately)
So it's possible he put the cardboard in dracula
I just rewatched this film and I could be wrong but it appears that the man with the lantern at the beginning is the same man that appears later to Raoul and Ledoux in the cellars that says “I am a messenger from the shadows ~~turn back ere ye perish!”
Lantern man: "Any of y'all know where the bathroom's at?"
Director "Get out of the shot!"
LM: "Hey fella, no need to get - oh shit, monster comin!"
The real reason is somebody though "haha, this 'll confuse them 90 yeas down the line!"
*Chronologically Confused: Phantom of the Opera!*
So it seems that the current Phantom film we all know and love is more of a Frankenstein's monster than the Frankenstein film itself?
I've wanted to make a video explaining this all for such a long time.
Thank you for your service.
It's just such a complicated thing to explain everytime the subject of this movie comes up.
I love these kinds of videos. Even though I have never watched any of these, I still love hearing James talk. More like these please.
You know, I didn't care about classic movies before seeing this video but god you make it so damn interesting
Wherever Lantern Man came from, he’s an icon now. Some one at Disney must have seen and remembered him from Phantom, to make him part of The Haunted Mansion.
I absolutely love these "mysteries of old films" videos. I like that they're just as much on the production side of things as they are on the story of the movies. This and the cardboard video had me genuinely in suspense.
Just wanted to say that I'm a huge fan of these videos where you expound upon an aspect of classic horror films that younger audiences (such as myself) aren't very familiar with. It's highly interesting and I could listen to it for hours.
James: *trying to enjoy a classic phantom of the opera fiIm*
Iantern man: I'm about to end this man's whoIe career
Best edition of Phantom of the Opera is the one with the added orchestral score composed by Gabriel Thibaudoux and performed by the Musici de Montreal. Soundtrack 1990 by La Cinemateque Quebecoise. The musical track really fits the story. As I learned, the film itself is a version prepared for reissue in 1929. In my opinion, the only bad editions of Phantom are those released with rock, rap, experimental jazz, or repetitive, corny piano music, with no respect for the visuals or the actors.
This is why I'm subscribed to Cinemassacre. He talks about stuff he doesn't know, and yet its still enternatining and interesting.
I love how shrouded in mystery these silent films are. Everyone who was involved in making them is long gone, as are pretty much all the people who saw them in theaters.
I know who he is!! It’s the rat catcher!!! He has a bigger role in the novel and he’s in the original 1925 version. 😁
How do you know he’s in the 1925 version?
This is a great idea for a series of Videos, keep it up James!
Your love for classic film is contagious, and appreciated. I really miss you shots sitting behind your mock up rental store front desk. I loved that, with the old crt monitor..
The “Griggs” version is sourced from 16mm versions offered for sale by Griggs-Moviedrome, and the Essex Film Club of Nutley, New Jersey by Robert Lee in the 1970’s. the soundtrack was also available on casette for their silent prints..
So Griggs might not be the actor's name, but a seller?
So they filmed the 2 versions of Phatnom '25 like Tommy Wiseau did for The Room...2 cameras side by side...what a trend setter!
I thought The lantern Man was like the guy at the start of Frakenstein, and that they forgot to add speech cards
I do have a weird thing about learning every bit of Phantom of the Opera trivia out there. So thank you, this was quite useful. I think it's just because I find the character himself so intrinsically hilarious. And so when it comes to any version of the story, and there have been thousands of versions, details about problems with production are fascinating.
Universal planned to make a sequel for this film and finally got the rights from the Leroux estate in 1928-1929, Return of the Phantom was going to be both sound and in color. However, the sequel was dropped for some unknown reason (I'm just going to say it was because they didn't have Lon Chaney anymore) and in 1930 the sound version of Phantom was released.
James seems like the kind of guy to talk in-depth about a piece of cardboard taped to a lamp.
The real cut of the film was the friends we made along the way.
I mean, I love everything that James does. But those real in-depth analysis are just impressive!
James please keep doing these film trivia videos we love them!
Legend has it that the "phantom of the opera" title alludes to a second, real phantom, haunting the edges of the screen. Every effort was made to cut it out of the film through use of a second camera to adjust the scene, and the inclusion of a lantern man at the beginning, warning movie-goers not to search the screen for strange images.
vintage 1920s creepypasta
The Dark Opera ummm, it's the name of the book
The Dark Opera lol I like that
A lot of thought went into that comment, just to spew out lies.
I don't see any of those 'thoughts' that went into this.
James. Why are you not a Film Tutor. Your the best one I ever seen.
I really appreciate these moviehistory related videos about strange things (lol) in classic movies. Please keep on going with these!
It's so bizarre (for a person from the modern internet era. where nothing is ever forgotten) to to think that something that was once common knowledge could be so utterly lost. If only we could go back to 1925 and ask someone coming out of a theater, "Hey, remember that guy in the beginning with a lantern? What did he say?"
Damn
The Lax DAMN.
*DAAAMN*
dam
*D a m n*
damn
james should do this as a regular series... have a episode once a month or so and name the series "Cinnemassacre's Nerdy Cinema Trivia "
Hollywood needs to preserve our cinematic history movies reflect our society and who we are as human beings. Good segment video James keep doing your thing.
maybe the lantern mans audio was supposed to done live at the theater, so the movie house could choose what was said, thanks for introducing me to so many old classics, bought a bunch of blu rays recently :)
I feel like Monster Madness has extended beyond October this year.
Damn James, I haven't seen any other person who cares more about these old films than you :)
My God James. Been a fan since 2006, and already there's so many topics that I would love to sit down and talk to you about for hours. Heavy metal, horror movies, etc... But this, the fact that you're also a huge film preservation nerd as well....my God. If you aren't a member of the 'fan edit' community (or dare I say it, don't even know about this community) you seriously need to go down that rabbit hole ASAFP. I cannot tell you how many message board conversations I've either read or participated in that go into such detail about movies. The fact that you yourself actually created a fan edit of King Kong with actual film reels would already make you a GOD in that community, as most of us do it on our computers.
Oh my I never knew that Id enjoy videos like this sooooo much its really amazing
It's the rat catcher. In the original novel, the heroes encounter him when they're searching for The Phantom's lair.
Cool vid. I'd go with the hypotesis of the guy in the audience reading the initial dialogue to capture the attention of the crowd. ;)
This is fascinating. Thank you so much for your insight.
I'm loving these videos exploring apparently minor eccentricities of beloved films. More of the same please James!
Keep this series going, it's great and super interesting!
The only plausible theories I can think of is either it was filmed for a silent version and the frames with the text dialogue are all long gone, or over the years the audio track has been corrupted beyond repair and there was no way to salvage it.
This was the most convoluted and informative video that I never knew I wanted to watch, lol, very interesting mystery!
James, it's also important to remember that back in the silent era, it was common for films to shoot with two different cameras, one at a slightly different angle, edited sometimes with different takes and shipped off overseas to international markets quickly while the U.S. had it's own premiere.
Loving these videos btw.
I’ve seen the Phantom Reviewer’s videos on this, so I already knew quite a bit of Phantom’s mixed up, crazy history. Still very interesting, though.
Also, I’ve NEVER heard of the guy with the lantern scene! I don’t remember seeing it on my copy of the DVD. He showed up later in the film-I think he was revealed to be the Rat Catcher-but not at the beginning. Maybe I just blocked it out of my memory?
whered u watch it
Goyly Dan The Ultimate Edition is the DVD I have, which is probably the one edition that doesn’t have that scene come to think of it.
It's strange how the version of The Phantom of the Opera is incomplete and made up of lost versions.
James, these trivia videos are some of the most interesting things I've seen in years. You have to keep this up!
Really like how in-depth and obscure (in topic and detail) these are! Can't wait to see more. Thanks!
This video is great. Please keep doing them.
"Extreme Nerdy Horror Trivia"...you should make it into its own series, this is awesome!
love these videos. more please. these bit nerdy, in depth, analytical vids with a bit of horror/thriller movie trivia knowledge angle
IMHO these are the best types of videos James makes. The AVGN is fun for a laugh, but I really enjoy his documentary style insight into classic movies and how they are made and the lore of the making of these movies.
If I can be so humble as to request a film topic: The history of stop motion cinematography would make for a great movie
Please make many, many more of these :)
According to Google YOU are the Lateran Man now 😭😂
Great vid...keep up looking at classics for cinema buffs. As for why the introduction has the man with a lantern is in the beginning: it may still have been considered spooky during the time. There’s stories of people fainting while watching the earliest cinema footage of a train coming into view. Kudos that you have gone through different versions..and makes me to watch all of them!
Whatever this and the last Dracula video is. This super obscure movie trivia. I love it. Keep this series going.