Jon Kaase’s Insanely Customized Ford Y-Block Makes Nearly 600 hp!
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- Опубликовано: 8 окт 2015
- Torque started off strong at 526 lb-ft at the 3,000 rpm bottom of the test range, and twist only ramped up from there. Peak torque recorded measured 596 lb-ft at 4,600 rpm. On the power side, Kaase didn’t disappoint, with peak output showing 584 hp at just 5,500 rpm.
I owned and hot-rodded these back in 1957 Ford. Even in mildly hot-rodded form they had good torque. The big problem was getting them to rev like the Chevys. I had an Offenhauser 3-deuce manifold, headers, ported heads(had to be very careful there....tendency to crack), good cam, exhaust. Was very gratifying down low and got nice jump off the line.....then the revvy Chev's would come on about mid-quarter. If you could harness the torque at the bottom without losing traction.....there was a chance. Very old engine design....came from the flathead as the answer to '50's. Really respect that old hotrodder, Jon Kaase.
John Kaase is one of the best engine builders in the world, don't have to be a Ford either. He won with a monster Pontiac engine a few years back. Very smart dude.
Kaase is an awesome builder and I would love to meet him some day. He really seems like a cool guy who despite a lot of success doesn't seem arrogant.
I did meet Jon in Atlanta about 40 years ago. Just like with any profession that has extremely talented individuals that are clearly better than the rest, drag racing has a few assholes that can’t seem to handle success.
HOWEVER, Jon Kaase is a very laid back and humble person, in my opinion. The type of guy that I would like to smoke and joke with but if a serious competition engine was involved, I would trust Kaase no matter what. His credentials speak loud and clear so he doesn’t have to 🏆.
I mentioned meeting Jon 40 years ago. He wasn’t exactly a household name back then but now he’s known globally and that hasn’t fucked up his head in the least. He’s still a humble guy that would be cool to just hang with out with 👌.
@@danielwilson6665 That's cool. Yeah he really seems like a decent guy. Always giving credit to everyone else unlike a certain Banks.
There’s a repetitive theme in this fascinating collection of comments. If anyone bothered to actually watch the interview with Mr. Kaase, he openly discussed the fact that he DID do the extensive modifications that keep being repeated so often. And yes, that includes the 10 pounds of expensive welding rods on the heads which is a fully legal modification for this somewhat obscure Ford masterpiece as prepared by Jon Kaase.
Next we can have even more fact filled fun discussing the most banned engine in Motorsports History, the Ford 351 Cleveland Small Block !
And the beat goes on....
@@charleskeller1245 LOL, because they scatter all over the track? Just kidding, I think it's because of bore spacing 385 series is too big.
@@playlist55 still a factory designated small block tho
Not a small block, it's a 335 series, as said by Ford. But,, yes, we all call them a SB.
@@makattak3550 … You’re absolutely correct about the mis-use of so many ways that have been used to describe the “Cleveland” Ford engine. I quit trying to correct and change people’s way of thinking a long time ago. 🤷♂️.
The term “small block” is now an accepted form of description for Ford, GM and Chrysler V-8 engines with a typically smaller range of displacement than similar engines with a larger displacement from the same manufacturer.
When it comes to anything that’s related to engines and automobiles in general, I think accuracy is very important. But the nomenclature used for “small block” and “big block” engine displacements has very little meaning to me anymore. I get it 👌.
Now if people would stop referring to internal combustion power sources as “motors” instead of the correct term of ENGINES…..🧐
@@danielwilson6665General Motors, Ford Motor Co, Outboard Motor Corp.
much need. love ford power
Just add GM parts and maybe you can get it to run - and run well... The only credit "ford" gets is that the block did not disintegrate. Even he stated that "these are 2015 parts". He likes a challenge! Getting good HP numbers out of a ford is a REAL CHALLENGE!!
So cool to see a Y.
I have a 55 Thunderbird roadster with a basically stock engine and I have tried to egg on a couple of people with early Corvettes to a race and can't get any takers.Seems they aren't as quick as you would think.
@@clivehoskin7254 312 vs. 283 or even 265...no replacement for displacement
The reason the Y-block Ford looks like a small block Chevy is because Zora Duntov worked for Ford before he worked for GM and designed the Y-block. Then he went to work for GM and designed the small block Chevy. He did both motors in just a couple of years.
LOVE me some old /new HP!!!
Big Feat for an old Y block
That’s a great accomplishment!
Bring back the competition !!!🙏🙏
I was gonna say-those over/under int ports are the Y-blocks achilles heel.
Mark, you would have been right, had you said it...
What a cool guy
School of Automotive Machinist located in Houston. Owned by Judson Massingill. I’ve not seen him in 30 plus years but he loves these kind of challenges so it was pretty cool to hear Jon Kaase talk about them challenging them. I met Judson back in the late 60’s street racing. He’s a very bright man and knows how to build power. So this had to be a fun challenge between the two shops. Funny they chose the old school route.
Mr Kaase is my Hero!
I just love the engine builder contests, don't recall the name, but they really cover all types of engines
Engine Masters, so cool Thanks
Y blocks kick ass
HE SAID TO JOHN YOU TURNED IT INTO A SMALL BLOCK CHEVY HEAD. THE Y-BLOCK CAME IN 1953 ALMOST 2 YEAR BEFORE THE CHEVY SMALL BLOCK WHICH OBVIOUSLY WAS MODELED AND COPIED FROM THE FORD Y-BLOCK.
The Y block was ready for introduction in 52 for the 53 model year but nickle shortages delayed it till late 53 for the 54 model year.
@Jim Piver
Yeah, the actual block of the gen 1 Chevy small block isn't a copy of the Ford Y block design, but maybe it should've been.... The lower skirts on the Y block's namesake 'Y' design adds structural rigidity and stability to the bottom end of the engine, which is why the Y block WASNT really replaced by the FE series. The FE was basically just a larger companion to the Y block. The FE engine is a Y block design as well.....
Patrick McLeod Ford knew the Y-block was "displacement limited" and they needed something to compete with other brands' bigger engines. That's what brought about the FE. The small block Ford which debuted in '62 as the 221 (then grew to 260, 289, 302, & the taller deck 351W) was really the replacement for the Y.
The Chevy LS (and Ford Mod Motors & Coyotes) DID copy the Y/FE's deep skirted blocks AND the 427FE's cross bolted mains (the 406FE may have had cross bolted mains, too.)
@@foxfordcatguy2283 should also mention pricing out a coyote & a ls through jegs & summet at the same hp ,the coyote is actually cheaper .so the bullshit about a chev being a cheaper motor on builds that guys are spending 6 figures on is just about being ignorant pricks.
grand unified Yeah, I'm SO sick of that MYTH. I don't even bother arguing anymore. I just wait for the inevitable "You can build 2-3 Chevys for the price of 1 Ford." Then I just say "YOU USUALLY HAVE TO!"
I will always consider Kaase my biggest hero. If he wrote a 2000 page book, I'd own it and read every page. But, would 2000 pages be enough?
Funny ...ford seems to win most of the time also funny how the chev l.s. have so many features that the ford f.e. blocks had way back.
After 10#s of welding rods basically you turned them into a chevy head.? Tuned out? Lol
Fifth farce, read much? from autoweek: "Chevrolet claims NHRA Manufacturers Cup for record 23rd time".
Nascar Manufacturer Championship
total cup NXS truck
Chevrolet 69 39 21 9
Ford 22 16 4 2
and it seems Ford finally got smart, they are going back to a big gas pushrod V/8 for trucks, cars to follow I'm sure. Nice clean sheet design. You would say it looks like an LS motor, because that's how you think. Mod motor maybe too expensive to build? Sorry tough question for you.
@@playlist55 wow think much the common had nothing to do with that it's referring to engine Masters challenge that he was enterred in and the other part was referring to the similarities the LS has to the Ford FE that won constantly in the sixties . nascar is a poor reference because Ford and Dodge foolishly pulled back in the 70s and 80s
Show me some F1 numbers or rally. An LS is not cheap to build nice try
@@grandebigy LOL, you get me some numbers right after you eat the ones I gave you. Oh you don't like numbers, just Blue Oval dreams. And, I never said an LS was cheap to build. You talk alot for not knowing anything.
@@playlist55 yep typical arrogant GM fanboy , you Americans think that the u,s is the only place races happen .
maybe next time don't respond to a year old comment
ford god
Ya'll remember that time John Beck showed up with that damn 307 Chevy.
Lol, as if the ‘mod to make a Chevy head’ critique has any bearing on Kasses’s win, Chevy head or not, the guy won with his engine. It’s called the Engine Masters not ‘Best Brand Championship’
Tetch, the point is just that. Kaase took a lump of iron and made a new motor from it, because the class allowed it. He IS an Engine Master. The dudes that are commenting on how great a motor the Y-block was, or how Chevy copied the Y-block are kinda retarded. In fact, they changed the rules in this class to forbid what Kaase did to the heads, so he did another class. He will pick a class where he has the best chance to win. Good advertisement for him, and he likes to win.
FUNNY TED EATON BEAT HIS Y BLOCK WITH THE HEADS IN THE STOCK FORM SO MUCH FOR YOU HAVE TO TURN IT INTO A CHEVY TO MAKE POWER
Funny . Kasse also stated the Chevy head design was basically done 4 times earlier by other manufacturers
I'm guessing he got aftermarket aluminum heads that are made for the Y-block, then machined out the stacked intake ports, welded them back up to make side-by-side intake ports, then made intake flange adapter blocks to get them to line up with the Chevy intake manifold.
Andy, you don't need to guess. It's in the Hot Rod article.
I wanna build a vintage accurate chevy 302 with that intake setup making peak numbers at 7.2k-8.5k rpm
You could build a cross ram 302. Offenhauser still make very nearly the same intake as the GM cross ram and it's not too expensive. The Offy linkage is a bit pricey for what it is but it's available new too and there's even some guy on eBay making a better linkage especially for cross rams.
What I'd do if you want something special and a bit different to run your cross ram on, get a 400 SBC block and put a 327 crank in it with long rods. Check this article out:
www.airflowresearch.com/412-hp-350-ci-afr-190cc/
If you want everything to look exact, Trick Flow makes heads that look nearly identical to camel hump fuelie heads:
www.rodauthority.com/tech-stories/engine/double-hump-heads-trick-flow/
If you paint it "cast balst" or Chevy orange, only the most hardcore Chevy guys would know you have such heads. They made it clear that the minimum bore size to use is 4 inches, and 4 inches is standard bore on the Chevy 302.
+ThePaulv12
I suppose people could find a way to make fake casting numbers and disguise other parts of the block to make the engine look authentic.
WOW!!!
THAT MUCH OUT OF A Y BLOCK NORMALLY ASPIRATED!!
I HAVE ALWAY SEEN THE Y BLOCK AS A SLUG!
I NEVER HAD NOTICED THE CYLINDER OFF SET ASPECT BEFORE EITHER!
COULD THE INTAKE MANIFOLD BE PUT ON BACKWARDS TO COMPENSATE FOR THIS ON OTHER APPLICATIONS?
Ross, they were slugs, it's no longer a y-block. Read the Hot Rod article about it.
back in the late 60s at a 5/8 mile oval where i lived the old Y block fords made the chebys look stupid ,one guy ran a 58 plymouth with a poly engine and he ran over the whole fuckin bunch of ,em
I noticed one thing no matter how good the Ford is or the Mopar is they try to compare it to a belly button 350 please
I have a stroke or 460 with Johns heads
engine runs amazing
how so
Danssmallenginerepair
I have a stroked 460
it’s 521 cubes on pump gas
It makes 740 on engine dyno
The bowtie boys act like a small block Chevy’s are magic
I know of guys that have 347 stroker Ford motors single turbo running high sevens it’s not magic
Chevy is cheap h.p. but umreliable.. put the money into a.ford.and you'll drive it.for years
@@michaelgarbush2784 LMAO on that one
@@michaelgarbush2784 Is that why the 'y' block was discontinued so early?
Yaaaa John kaase long live the y block the oil hole in the block gets drilled out to 3/8 from main journal to top of the block then center cam bearing oil hole need to be opened up to 5/16 heads oil grove get hog out to 3/8 deap and holes at each end drilled to 3/8 and rocker stands opened up to 3/8 then you won't need out side oil lines use the t bird aluminum oil pump peace go y block
Is that a 312 y block?
Truck motor!
+blkcoupequattro beats the hell out your old clunker!!
How does it have a chevy intake? Y blocks have stacked intake ports.
Stay mad Chevy boy
@@brendan25 Not mad at all. Was just wondering. I think it's amazing. Look up stock y block heads. Totally different setup. And I love both Ford and Chevy that's why I'm here.
Look like it as addapter
10 pounds of welding rod in the heads is how he got it to fit
@@bigchike350 he made an adapter, and went as far as to cut out the vertical stacked ports, and weld in side by side ports. He basically invented his own head for all intents and purposes
This has less to do with Ford and more to do with Kasse
See Ford 429 SCJ. Those were Kaase designed heads.
Ford Haters crack me up
John should have reminded him that the Ford Y BLOCK came out a year before the Chevy V8. And that the small Block Chevy V8 was not the original engine design that Chevy was going to use.
wow, is that a commodore computer? Awesome!
Does it have Mummert Machine heads on it?
Tony, it does, but Kaase cut 'em up and used 10lbs of weld rod on them to make the ports side by side. So, not really Mummerts any more.
@@playlist55 wow that's crazy, pretty cool I didn't know that was even possible
@@pw383426 Kaase is an amazing engine builder/designer. The reason he used the Y block that year is because the rules allowed him to make so many modifications. Because of what he was able to do, they changed the rules in the class. LOL, he did a Big Block Chevy in a different Class this year, because of the rules...
Looks like John Beck working the dyno....can anyone here confirm?
and it beats the Packard?
It Beats the Packard.
How? I've seen plenty of Y-Blocks growing up...my uncle outside Rolla MO was building them......Packards.....hmmm noooo... so just rarity alone and effort to gain HP with a car w/o a long list of buyable mods, IMO gets the nod
Looks like a chevy engine with the distributor on the rear
What is the cubic inches of this engine?
bore and stroke
400ci, 13.9:1, 244/238 flat tappet cam
isn't that what's his face from Lincoln Tech?
He just does the Lincoln Tech segment.
NASCAR..ready.
The prevailing belief “back in the day” was that in comparing the 292/312 V8 Ford to the 283/301 V8 Chevy, it was Chevy’s short stroke that made the Fords look like dogs. Everything I thought I knew back then (1966, when I tried to make a 312V8 perform) has been called into question, but the 283s secret was, in fact, its short stroke, right? I’m old. Tell me one thing I knew for sure was right!
Long stroke makes a lot of low end torque but makes the engine have a low HP and red line. The best way I can compare this is to using a breaker bar on a ratchet when you're fighting a stuck bolt. You can apply more force to the bolt thru the ratchet with a breaker bar. But you won't get that bolt out at break neck speeds.
Same thing applies if you got an engine with a short stroke. The pistons don't have nearly as far to complete a stroke, thus making for a higher red line and letting there be room for more horse power an torque. Think, one engine has a 4in stroke and a 3in bore and another has 4in bore and a 3in stroke. There's an inch farther that the longer stroked engine has to travel. Again with the ratchet. This time without a breaker bar. You have to apply a greater force to the ratchet to get a stuck bolt to turn, but once it's moving, you can remove it faster.
James Wil - Yeah, I get that part. What’s funny today is to remember that the prevailing wisdom was that a short stroke would eat itself up in a few years, whereas you’d be running that long stroke for a decade or more. To think no one saw that we were being played on concepts that were irrelevant to what we could really expect out of a vehicle designed to run for three years max. Long stroke or short stroke, with a smoked transmission you went for a trade in! Who kept a car ten years?
@@caseyjoanz I'm only 21 so I don't remember. But I've ran both, not easy either. I've had cranks take trips South and pistons take trips East and West in both. Long as you kept the RPM down and not trying to rev it to the moon every second, long stroke can hold up well.
I got my Pawpaws 62 f100 with a 223 i6. I've never ran one and plan to baby this. Hope its a good engine!
James Wil - You shouldn’t have any problem. What I was really trying to say was that Chevy vs Ford arguments got ridiculous and both had engines that would be running fine when the car was sold or traded in. Wanting to have a newer model took the form of complaining about mounting costs for fender benders, engine components (fuel pump, electrical, cooling system, carb) when, in reality, the owner just wanted to justify buying a new car. Chevys 283 would always beat Fords 292 off the line, but everyone extolled the 292 for road trips. They were petty arguments. Chevy was faster, Ford lasted longer. Unless the Ford was tweaked by someone who knew how to get the most out of them. But a 283 punched out to 301? They ran hot, but while they held up they’d run like a scalded dog. You opened the cylinder walls to razor-thin margins, and variations in castings for the 283 block ran the risk of requiring a steel sleeve if 301 was too much.
@@caseyjoanz thank you for all the great info! I wish they would just start making the old stuff again, so much easier to understand. And those little 283s where like the 350s, the won't give up easy. I've only drove a 59 Ford with a 292 for 20ish miles, drunk gas like it was free because it was loaded down with fire wood. That was my only complaint.
4:14
If anyone here is a SBF / Y-block guru I need some info / help on an old 312 we have had in our family since the 1960's...any response is appreciated.
Som... hotrodreference.com/1272/ford-y-block-block-casting-numbers/
@@playlist55 thanks for the help, I'm gonna do some more digging and see what I can find. It's definitely got some casting # on it that don't look factory...very strange.
@@Somd301 Could be industrial. Google industrial y-block. I know there are some forums out there.
Do you know to know the y block engine is tolove the y block engine.... Good engine just don't use non detergent oil... And you'll never have a oiling problem
Not good engine originally have a pile of them in my yard .😎for a 59ford ranchero .
Hey Jon
How about making some strong 2.3 ecoboost blocks for us ecoboost mustang guys
New title: "blah blah blah dyno pull with a modern parts Y-Block".
I think it's funny that people refer to this as a "Ford". It's right in the title "customized". That motor is as close to a Y block as a Sonny Leonard motor is to a big block chevy. It's a "block", nothing else is original to the "Y". He welded and machined the heads to look like SBC heads! Kaase could do what he did with the "Y" to ANY motor that you can get aftermarket aluminum heads for.
+playlist55 That's not really true, the motor does have 312 CZ heads on it that have been recast in aluminum and the heads still have the over and under intake ports . It has adapter plates to take the sbc tunnel ram. Have you ever seen a y block up close they do look a bit like a sbc .I have bracket raced and built many Y blocks . They don't breathe as well as a sbc but with some port work they make a lot of torque.
joe carr
According to the article about it in Hot Rod (a very detailed article) Kasse said "we wanted a head that can be machined and welded or modified.” Modify they did, with more than 10 pounds of welding rod reconfiguring the head to eliminate its most troublesome characteristic: stacked ports.
Kaase reworked the heads to eliminate the over under ports. He cut 'em up, welded and reworked them to a side by side port. Heads are Nothing like the factory heads. He's a sharp guy, he found a class that he could basically remake the motor and win it handily.
*****
Nope, never seen 'em. Did they make more than 5? Point is Kaase made a motor in an unlimited class almost from scratch. There is little that was left in the great and formidable "Y" block design space in his motor. I don't need to argue SBC vs any Ford motor. Let the production numbers and the performance parts #'s speak to that. Even Ford guys didn't like the "Y" block.
*****
I guess you can't read. The Vintage class had very few restrictions. Cam size was about it, and the stock lump of cast iron that forms the block.. Kaase used a billet crank that cost him about $20K He made a billet girdle and crank caps to hold the lower end together because it would not have stayed together without it. He chose the Y block "because Mummert made aluminum heads that he could totally rework (because they are aluminum) Mummert's heads have the over under ports that suck which is why Kaase reworked them to side by side ports. If the Lincoln heads are so great, why would he do that? "Cause they're not. Get a magazine, read it, tell me what part of the design was not reworked except the block core which he had to keep stock per the rules. Kaase's a smart guy. He took a lump of shit and put $100K into it to win vintage class. SBC's spinning bearings? You just showed your dumbass, maybe the one's you put together, if you ever built anything in your life.
*****
Well sounds like maybe you're figuring out my whole point which was the whole motor was altered to the tune of $100K. And I can give you plenty of links for NA 600hp SBC's too. You know, the ones that spin bearings... still LMFAO on that stupid comment. But, I'm guessing you'll never get it. But hey, next time I'm at the track, I'll look for all the "Y blocks". LMFAO again! I will find none, I am sure. Stay in your dream world, you couldn't handle the real one.
Disapointed. Other than learning a sbc could be adapded to a Ford Y block nothing but Blaw , Blwa , Blauw
"So, basically you turned it into a small block Chevy"...LOL.
Actually this motor (Y Block) was built before the SBC so the SBC is the same as the Y block.
@@n5ifiYes, but they were quite different. This builder changed the Y block setup to be more like a SBC.-, especially the heads.
@@wymple09: You're not "hearing" Jon. LOL. GM more or less copied the FORD Y Block. The FORD Y Block came out in 1953, and the GM small block came out in late 1954. GM and Chrysler always stole ideas and designs from FORD. It's no secret. LOL.
@@MGB18 If you can't find the big differences between the two designs you aren't looking. Do you see over/under ports on a Chevy? You don't think that's a huge difference? Kaase spent thousands of dollars modifying it to basically copy a smallblock Chevy. As for 1st, that claim can go anywhere. Both Caddy & Olds preceded the Ford design.
@@wymple09: The only thing chivy on Jon's Ford Y Block is the manifold genius. lol. As anyone can see, he made adapter plates to make the manifold runners line up and fit. Also never forget kid, the first Hot Rods began with the Ford V8 Flathead in 1932, and the rest followed.
Open your damn mouth about the Y block, years, inches and why it’s called a Y block.
Shame they don't know or understand the FORD 😒
Who else thought the engine would explode?
Neil Fraser not a chance. Kaase is the king of engine building
LOL, it would have if not for the billet girdle he fabbed for the lower end. Good article in Hot Rod about it. Not much "Y" left in it.
Why are you wasting time and money on this old junk? How about getting an engine to defeat Gm in pro stock to stop the humiliation???
Wanna cammer 😊