Superb video. As someone born in the 70’s the first three films were a huge part of my childhood and I still enjoy them. Christopher Reeve was maybe the best actor to don a cape.
Well done again, sir! Your Bond content will always pique my interest first, I, happily enjoy it when you do another franchise retrospective. I quite agree with you about pretty much everything. Although I will admit to never watching Supergirl. I have seen the Donner version of S2, but years ago and really should see it again. At the time I was surprised because I didn't know that the cut existed now I think it would be fun to fully dive into. Like you, I do remember thinking it didn't really feel finished. Thanks so much for another damn fine installment from your fantastic production. Your quality is seriously top-notch!
For some reason I once watched the first one without the dialog, just the music and it is amazing how the music tells you what's happening. I love that scene in the first one when they are in the daily planet, right after Superman first shows up, and Perry White is telling them he wants to know everything about this guy, he looks at Clark and says "what's his favorite ball team?" and Clark is actually going to say something
@@javierservigon John Williams is a master of emotional storytelling in music form. And you actually identified one of my favorite subtler moments from the original. It cracks me up every time.
I think it would have been a bad idea after Lois fell out of the window, for Clark to stand in the street, use his powers and save her, while all the people who were standing there and walking past, just watched, because that would have ruined my suspension of disbelief, cos that makes me feel like Lois is just too reckless and Clark/Superman so sure of his abilities, that because she's fine afterwards, it doesn't really matter how it happens, and sorry I don't buy it. Some people who have seen the hotel scene in Nigeria Falls, and thought it was a bit silly, are missing the clever character moments that occur between those two, they can express their true emotions, share and even smile and make light of it, while still being aware of possible consequences. That's more believable for me, I can't help wishing Dick Donner had been given more chance to tell his vision of the story but that someone could have held his hand and said 'Are you sure, how about this instead', and then maybe it might have been perfect.
You brought up some points that I had to noodle on for a bit. 1. I''m not sure throwing herself into a river is meant to be any less reckless than a building. Lois is convinced in both circumstances that Superman has to intervene to save her, and he clearly thinks the same thing since he does use them. 2. I will concede that using the heat vision in public as Clark is a bad idea, but I do have to wonder. Are bystanders supposed to see the beams from his eyes? The films are inconsistent about the use of the beams. Superman III and IV both have bits where he clearly uses his heat vision, but we don't see the beams. Yet in Superman II and Supergirl, it seems like people do notice them. I can't say for sure, so maybe Donner was working under the assumption that people can't? Keep in mind that most of the other times they use heat vision in Superman II are in the Lester footage, and Lester may have thought differently than Donner about them. 3. I'm curious as to which Hotel scene you're talking about. The Donner or the Lester version? Both are fine scenes, though the thing that bugs me about the Lester version is him tripping over the rug. Besides that, Reeve and Kidder are still really great in that scene.
In my life, I've seen a lot of movies. And if I were to single out a single movie as being the greatest film of all time... It would have to be King Kong. But Superman: The Movie comes close. I saw it last night for a pick-me-up, and it's a genuine masterpiece. It doesn't try to shamelessly deconstruct the character, it doesn't include any MAJOR action setpieces barring the climax where Superman prevents Lex's "Crime of the Century" from destroying California, and it doesn't even want to be thought-provoking. It wants to tell the story of the first modern superhero, translate his world onto the big screen, and deliver a brilliant adventure-drama. And because it does so so well, it ends up as the very definition of a "feel-good" movie. It's a reminder that Escapism is what built cinemas to begin with.
Solid pick for your favorite. I don't mind deconstructions of heroes, but it helps if the people making the film both love and understand the character.
@@stephenjarvis534 Exactly. For a while, my favourite movies were Raiders of the Lost Ark and Akira, but Superman: The Movie managed to top both of them. And you know I'll be buying the 4K and extended TV cut due to this fact. It really is the Godfather of superhero movies.
I only know Brandon Routh as Atom and alternate Earth Superman from the Arrowverse shows, and he'll always have a soft spot in my heart. I'm glad I didn't see Superman Returns though, because that might have tarnished him for me.
Hackman and Brando didn't return after they fired Donner. Seeing some of the things donner had planned for the second film made me feel like I was cheated out of something great. The Salkinds were known for cheap and not wanting to pay people. They hadn't even paid Lester for The Musketeers films.
From what I heard about III, Kidder said that Pryor was hoping to do something different when picked for III. Yet the writers and producers went the way they did.
Margot Kidder a plain Jane!? Total babe in my book. Watch DePalma’s Sisters. Nice review! I did a stream on these movies a few weeks back on my channel
1:06:51 and the lack of color that is just hard not to ignore if compared to the 4 Reeve films. If they re colored it might just be slightly better? The film wants to stay in the shadow of Reeve but wants to jump to modern take every scene. - Luke
20:30 It's true that when given an entire Superman movie to direct on their own, Donner fared better than Lester... but on balance, Lester is an infinitely better filmmaker: see his work with The Beatles, or Petulia, or his 70s swashbucklers (Three-Four Musketeers, Robin and Marian), which easily surpasses anything directed by Donner.
Lester is indeed an accomplished director and I like a lot of what he's done, especially A Hard Day's Night. However, Donner has some strong films outside Superman, like Lethal Weapon, the Omen and The Goonies. I think it's an apples/oranges situation.
Saying everyone hated supergirl from 84 was an overreaction across the internet for the last 11 years where everyone dunking on the movie for clout chasing became trendy. Supergirl wasn’t the only 80’s movie to feature a female lead the other was Ninja three that had Lucinda Dickey in the female lead that met with the same overreaction.
I don't think I actually said everyone hated Supergirl; I just said that people tend to rip it apart. I'm trying to be careful in making broad statements like "everyone hates this film" because there are always people who will comment, "I really like the film." And that's exciting for me to hear from defenders of movies that don't work for me. As far as overreaction goes, that may be true. But I'm not sure. Contemporary reviews that I read of the film weren't very kind, and there was way more negative ones than positive (though that might not be indicative of the entire reviewing community of 1984). Interestingly, I also found that Supergirl sits at an 8% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which is 3% lower than Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin, meaning more people liked that film enough to go online and give it a positive rating than Supergirl. So, I don't think the general negative opinion of the film is too exaggerated (who gets clout by dunking on an unpopular film?). It's nowhere near the worst superhero film I've ever seen, but it's also a hard experience for me to sit through. I started it three different times in the last month before I could get through it, and I've seen the film before.
Just watching Superman Returns for the first time in a long time. My mistake. The dramatic set-piece involving the new-type space shuttle is such bullshit that it defies any attempt at suspension of disbelief.
Superb video. As someone born in the 70’s the first three films were a huge part of my childhood and I still enjoy them. Christopher Reeve was maybe the best actor to don a cape.
Well done again, sir! Your Bond content will always pique my interest first, I, happily enjoy it when you do another franchise retrospective. I quite agree with you about pretty much everything. Although I will admit to never watching Supergirl. I have seen the Donner version of S2, but years ago and really should see it again. At the time I was surprised because I didn't know that the cut existed now I think it would be fun to fully dive into. Like you, I do remember thinking it didn't really feel finished. Thanks so much for another damn fine installment from your fantastic production. Your quality is seriously top-notch!
wonderful retrospective slj- keen, insightful, you obviously love (some of) the movies, as do i- greetings from an irish fan!!!
It figures your intelligent analyses weren't reserved for just Bond, Star Trek and video games. Very satisfying analysis.
Thanks for your video/work. Reeve and Donner did create the perfect Superman because they understood him. A movie as big as the character. Legends
Awesome retrospective
For some reason I once watched the first one without the dialog, just the music and it is amazing how the music tells you what's happening. I love that scene in the first one when they are in the daily planet, right after Superman first shows up, and Perry White is telling them he wants to know everything about this guy, he looks at Clark and says "what's his favorite ball team?" and Clark is actually going to say something
@@javierservigon John Williams is a master of emotional storytelling in music form. And you actually identified one of my favorite subtler moments from the original. It cracks me up every time.
Very good video, enjoyed the commentary. Reeve was universally excellent in the role. I did also enjoy Rouths version.
I think it would have been a bad idea after Lois fell out of the window, for Clark to stand in the street, use his powers and save her, while all the people who were standing there and walking past, just watched, because that would have ruined my suspension of disbelief, cos that makes me feel like Lois is just too reckless and Clark/Superman so sure of his abilities, that because she's fine afterwards, it doesn't really matter how it happens, and sorry I don't buy it. Some people who have seen the hotel scene in Nigeria Falls, and thought it was a bit silly, are missing the clever character moments that occur between those two, they can express their true emotions, share and even smile and make light of it, while still being aware of possible consequences. That's more believable for me, I can't help wishing Dick Donner had been given more chance to tell his vision of the story but that someone could have held his hand and said 'Are you sure, how about this instead', and then maybe it might have been perfect.
You brought up some points that I had to noodle on for a bit.
1. I''m not sure throwing herself into a river is meant to be any less reckless than a building. Lois is convinced in both circumstances that Superman has to intervene to save her, and he clearly thinks the same thing since he does use them.
2. I will concede that using the heat vision in public as Clark is a bad idea, but I do have to wonder. Are bystanders supposed to see the beams from his eyes? The films are inconsistent about the use of the beams. Superman III and IV both have bits where he clearly uses his heat vision, but we don't see the beams. Yet in Superman II and Supergirl, it seems like people do notice them. I can't say for sure, so maybe Donner was working under the assumption that people can't? Keep in mind that most of the other times they use heat vision in Superman II are in the Lester footage, and Lester may have thought differently than Donner about them.
3. I'm curious as to which Hotel scene you're talking about. The Donner or the Lester version? Both are fine scenes, though the thing that bugs me about the Lester version is him tripping over the rug. Besides that, Reeve and Kidder are still really great in that scene.
There should be a Superman 5 with Christopher Reeve
In my life, I've seen a lot of movies. And if I were to single out a single movie as being the greatest film of all time...
It would have to be King Kong.
But Superman: The Movie comes close.
I saw it last night for a pick-me-up, and it's a genuine masterpiece. It doesn't try to shamelessly deconstruct the character, it doesn't include any MAJOR action setpieces barring the climax where Superman prevents Lex's "Crime of the Century" from destroying California, and it doesn't even want to be thought-provoking. It wants to tell the story of the first modern superhero, translate his world onto the big screen, and deliver a brilliant adventure-drama. And because it does so so well, it ends up as the very definition of a "feel-good" movie. It's a reminder that Escapism is what built cinemas to begin with.
Solid pick for your favorite.
I don't mind deconstructions of heroes, but it helps if the people making the film both love and understand the character.
@@stephenjarvis534 Exactly. For a while, my favourite movies were Raiders of the Lost Ark and Akira, but Superman: The Movie managed to top both of them.
And you know I'll be buying the 4K and extended TV cut due to this fact. It really is the Godfather of superhero movies.
We should be friends! We think a lot alike!
I only know Brandon Routh as Atom and alternate Earth Superman from the Arrowverse shows, and he'll always have a soft spot in my heart. I'm glad I didn't see Superman Returns though, because that might have tarnished him for me.
Hackman and Brando didn't return after they fired Donner. Seeing some of the things donner had planned for the second film made me feel like I was cheated out of something great. The Salkinds were known for cheap and not wanting to pay people. They hadn't even paid Lester for The Musketeers films.
Lovely Helen Slater ❤ deserved a better movie She's the best thing about it
From what I heard about III, Kidder said that Pryor was hoping to do something different when picked for III. Yet the writers and producers went the way they did.
Margot Kidder a plain Jane!? Total babe in my book. Watch DePalma’s Sisters. Nice review! I did a stream on these movies a few weeks back on my channel
1:06:51 and the lack of color that is just hard not to ignore if compared to the 4 Reeve films. If they re colored it might just be slightly better? The film wants to stay in the shadow of Reeve but wants to jump to modern take every scene. - Luke
20:30 It's true that when given an entire Superman movie to direct on their own, Donner fared better than Lester... but on balance, Lester is an infinitely better filmmaker: see his work with The Beatles, or Petulia, or his 70s swashbucklers (Three-Four Musketeers, Robin and Marian), which easily surpasses anything directed by Donner.
Lester is indeed an accomplished director and I like a lot of what he's done, especially A Hard Day's Night. However, Donner has some strong films outside Superman, like Lethal Weapon, the Omen and The Goonies. I think it's an apples/oranges situation.
Saying everyone hated supergirl from 84 was an overreaction across the internet for the last 11 years where everyone dunking on the movie for clout chasing became trendy.
Supergirl wasn’t the only 80’s movie to feature a female lead the other was Ninja three that had Lucinda Dickey in the female lead that met with the same overreaction.
I don't think I actually said everyone hated Supergirl; I just said that people tend to rip it apart. I'm trying to be careful in making broad statements like "everyone hates this film" because there are always people who will comment, "I really like the film." And that's exciting for me to hear from defenders of movies that don't work for me.
As far as overreaction goes, that may be true. But I'm not sure. Contemporary reviews that I read of the film weren't very kind, and there was way more negative ones than positive (though that might not be indicative of the entire reviewing community of 1984). Interestingly, I also found that Supergirl sits at an 8% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which is 3% lower than Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin, meaning more people liked that film enough to go online and give it a positive rating than Supergirl. So, I don't think the general negative opinion of the film is too exaggerated (who gets clout by dunking on an unpopular film?). It's nowhere near the worst superhero film I've ever seen, but it's also a hard experience for me to sit through. I started it three different times in the last month before I could get through it, and I've seen the film before.
@@stephenjarvis534 you tell em tiger!!! i could watch slater read a phone book in that costume, no bother
Supergirl is awesome
she certainly LOOKS awesome. not crazy about the actual movie but my god slater is gorgeous
God stuff, as always.
No mention of the blatant Marlboro cigarette product placement in Superman 2?
Just watching Superman Returns for the first time in a long time. My mistake. The dramatic set-piece involving the new-type space shuttle is such bullshit that it defies any attempt at suspension of disbelief.
Do you like Keaton's Batman?