The Rise and Fall of the WEST COAST AVENGERS
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- In this video, Owen explains the history of the West Coast Avengers, how this unique superhero team was assembled, the factors behind their demise and their unexpected legacy in the Marvel Universe today.
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▶ Timestamps:
0:00 - Introduction
2:50 - Humble Beginnings
7:20 - How the West Was Won
14:22 - Avengers No More
20:49 - A Forgotten Legacy
25:18 - Outro
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#WestCoastAvengers #Marvel #ComicBooks 
Развлечения
▶ Hi all, thanks for all the positive words on the video! There are a few minor corrections that I want to make, and that some of you have thankfully raised:
1. The original WCA miniseries is set after Secret Wars, not during (Hawkeye and Iron Man are both on Battleworld so it has to be set after). The point I was trying to make in my notes was that the miniseries began during the Secret Wars event, with Marvel launching the title at the same time their A-list heroes were on Battleworld. I should have been more clearer, so thanks to everyone who raised that point!
2. When discussing John Byrne's Man of Steel comic, I accidentally said it was 12 issues instead of 6. I've double checked all my notes and I had written down 6 issues, so I must have messed up when recording that section and not realised. Slightly embarrassed about that one as I absolutely should have spotted it 🤦♂️
I'll make sure to be extra careful in the next video to double check everything and make sure there's no minor factual errors like this. If only RUclips had an edit feature where you could re-record lines, alas. Thanks everyone!
=455/
One note for you. This book took place AFTER Secret Wars. As Clint and Rhodey were part of the Battleworld contingent, and James actually references SW in the issue where he reveals it was HIM on Battleworld and not Tony Stark to the team. So the main Avengers were back by the time the WAC was put together.
Appreciate the clarification! The seeds were definitely planted for Vision to create the team during Secret Wars though.
@@OwenLikesComics Not a problem. LOVE these videos as they’re mostly a trip down memory lane for me and you did the West Coast team justice. Well done good sir, well done. 👏
West Coast Avenger represent one the best things about the avengers as team : The avengers aren't dependent on the original formation nor their members being made of just A-list heroes of Marvel universe in order to have great stories. While some original members like Cap, Iron Man and Thor were present in many of the Avengers line ups, the majority of the avengers were rarely big name heroes, usually they were supporting characters or villains seeking redemption like Wanda, Hawkeye, Vision and Wonder Man. The focus of the story was always on the team drama, their interactions and dynamics and how they work together to prove themselves as "Earth Mightest heroes".
This is an excellent point. Thanks!
It's a shame that everyone since Bendis thinks Avengers= all of Marvel's A-List Heroes
@@pious83 Yeah, I can see why he did this at time but really suck the charm of the original stories, of focusing not only on A-list but also the other character who didn't had the same spotlight. Not to mention some of the members worked better as allies rather than full time members, like Spider Man and Luke Cage. I'm not against them joining the group but I enjoy them both just being the average street level heroes who look up for the people while the Avengers are saving the world.
@@pious83 Ironic how now some fans/haters are using the same thing in MCU, saying how the franchise is doomed because we don't have Stark and Steve anymore and how the only way for this universe to survive is by bringing the Fantastic Four and the X-men... forgetting that this whole franchise started because of Iron Man, who wasn't even that icon he is nowadays (the only reason why he even got film, was because Marvel Studios didn't had the rights of their popular characters at time).
@@alexandrefrauches132 The whole idea behind Bendis' New Avengers was incredibly cynical. Put Spider-Man and Wolverine (among others) on the team to leech off their respective fanbases.
_Oh Hulk was a popular addition to the MCU team?_
_Put him back in the comics for the first time in decades. No one will notice..._
It's sad you won't see Tigra, Triathlon or Rage in modern Avengers stories/films.
The modern MCU fan/hater is a fickle thing. They have no real understanding of the past. Reading Marvel since the 80's. The movie crowd wouldn't understand that the Avengers were openly referred to as a "Third rate Justice League" and that Iron Man was a C-Lister, at best. By the same token, probably the most popular character on the team. Hence why he (and ironically, Forceworks) got a 90's cartoon before the Avengers themselves.
I've always thought the West Coast Avengers were a very fun lineup of heroes with an interesting team dynamic. I'm very happy to hear Owen getting into the details of their history!
Rh38272237283
I’m a big fan of the West Coast Avengers. The redemption of Hank Pym is my favorite story of the series.
Honestly this team is famous nowadays because of Bendis’ apparent hatred of it and it’s cast.
If you forget your lunch you blame it on Bendis don’t you? 🤣
Not with me, I actually read the comics during the 80s
Ngl Bendis hating it makes me want to read it more
West Coast Avengers, when you think about it, is basically "Justice League International" if the whole thing of "Maxwell Lord was always evil" twist had been done as part of the original run
I was a big West Coast Avengers fan when they first started out but I lost track of them once the 90s hit. Thanks for this thorough and enjoyable video.
Thanks for watching! Hopefully the video could fill in some of those years you missed 🤞
@@OwenLikesComics It certainly did. 😊
The West Coast Avengers was a good way to popularize characters causal fans have never heard of. Should there be another series just like it in the Superhero genre?
Thanks for the video. Roger Stern is an underappreciated writer. I liked the tone he established in the mini series and I wish Marvel would have allowed him to write the ongoing.
And as a fan of the Vision, I was furious when I learned what they did to him in the West Coast Avengers. John Bryne didn't like the way Claremont wrote Dr doom, and said that a writer should respect a character if he is going to write them in their story. And yet, John went out of his way to destroy the relationship between Vision and Wanda, simply because he didn't like it. The man was a bloody hypocrite.
Dr Strange and the Muliverse of Madness only exists because Byrne's SO preferred a vibrator and he took out his anger on Vision.
Agreed. Byrne is likely an unwitting hypocrit. What he did to Vision however was supposedly not going to end the way it did. But as usual, he had a tantrum and left before completing his reinvention.
@@darthknight1 Nah. Dude hated Vision being treated as a person. Repeatedly called him a toaster and said keepibg him alive should never be a priority for his team
He just couldn't draw children, wanted them out of the stpry.
@@taoistchainsaw5253 I dunno man I've seen quotes.
This one is probably my favorite forgotten superhero team, along with the Legion of Superheroes
(You know? Your next big video like the Scott Snyder Batman era should be a video about the Hickman era of Avengers)
The West Cost Avengers are still cool 😎 today. 😀👍
Honestly you are way better than Comics Explained, His overviews are always too fast and he tends to ramble. Thank you for being clear and concise.
As noted, Hawkeye and Iron Man (James Rhodes) were both a part of Secret Wars. Also, John Byrne's Man of Steel mini series that relaunched SUperman was only 6 issues, not 12.
Honestly I’m expecting some of these storylines to be in the next phase of the MCU. Maybe not in a dedicated West Coast Avengers series, but something with our existing roster. Great vid bud :)
Thank you!
I'm pretty sure after the last Avenger film, the next one will be merge of the New Avengers (considering the rumors that Thunderbolts film will introduce the Sentry) with the West Coast team, specially since they are establishing members like War Machine (who will be getting a Armor Wars film) White Vision (will get his own series), Moon Knight (got his own series) and Wonder Man (will get his own project).
I think maybe we might see a Force Works show on Disney+ as a kinda second crack at Defenders? Vision, Hawkeye, She-Hulk, Wonder Man etc. Maybe Moon Knight
@@Calzaki Or New Avengers show or film and the line up could be
Captain America (Sam Wilson)
War Machine
Black Panther (Shuri)
Monica Rambeau
Wonder Man
Shang Chi
Hawkeye (Clint Barton)
I'd rather see the Great Lakes Avengers in the MCU.
Oh, a video on the West Coast Avengers. Cool.
Those were the days. My first West Coast Avengers was issue #28. I ended up buying back issues and kept it as one of my pull lists. I love this book.
I think the West Coast series is still the closest Marvel has come to their own equivalent to Grant Morrison's JSI. In tone, concept and execution.
It's a shame that ideas like this, casting an eye on ensemble casts, have been all but invalidated in recent years. By Marvel's bizarre push to make 9/10 superheroes into Avengers.
Thank you for giving the original West Coast Avengers the respect they deserve, I was a heavy collector at the time and started from the mini-series on, at the time, WCA and the original X-factor series were my two favorite titles, the title made Hawkeye my favorite avenger, still is today, although what the MCU has done to him is a discussion for another time.
I've never realised how many important event happened in this spin-off book.
I love the West Coast line up to a much greater degree than the normal one
Because I'm the weirdo who 100% prefers more obscure, hidden and tertiary heroes to the big, beloved headliners
Give me guys like Moon Knight, Stingray and Living Lightning and I am totally happy.
So happy to see this! I love the WCA, it basically has all my favorite Avengers in it haha
The first time I read the original WCA series was when my Mom let me buy a half dozen comics at the grocery store. The issue I got was #12... and out of all the comics I got, including favorites like Spider-Man, I decided to stick with west coast avengers as the first series I ever really started reading religiously, reading it month by month until around issue 65 or so, right after Thomas' run ended. Perhaps it was because it was still a pretty new series at the time and I figured I could follow it without all the comic backstory, but I loved reading it. I stopped for a while, until around 1992 not too long before the end of the series run, and I wound up getting the back issues for the whole series at my comic book shop. It is amazing how much of that spin off series has affected the Avengers and even now the MCU to a degree. But, it really was my first major entry into the marvel universe other than sporadically buying random comics here & there and probably influenced my love of the marvel universe and even comic books in general much more than I ever thought. The wackos will always be awesome.
Thank you so much for sharing this!
West Coast Avengers seems like a really fun book! This video makes me want to check it out
I genuinely love the way you explain the history of comics. I never really thought much of the WCA but you had me at the edge of seat wanting to learn and read more. Great video as usual Owen! 💙
I think that was the draw or attraction I had towards the series, it featured some of the lesser-known characters and made a group around them. I think because of those circumstances it helped the writers flesh out these characters and write some really gripping and compelling material. I will always remember the story between Mockingbird and Phantom rider and the aftermath of that leading to the divorce of her and Clint. Owen once again mate you have out done yourself with another excellent video. Have a great christmas
I really liked WCA's initial limited series and their plan to take down Graviton was fun to read as it unfolded. After that , I thought Wonderman and Tigra should have gotten together for their own limited series -- two "outsider" type heroes working together seemed interesting. The ongoing series didn't hold my interest as well though, unfortunately.
I still haven't forgiven Marvel for cancelling that book, and it ended up being the beginning of the end of my time collecting comic books.
This was definitely "my" Avengers team and established Hawkeye and Mockingbird as my two fave Avengers.
Nice video, absolute complete with the run of West Coast Avengers with data I didn't know before. Thanks Owen 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👏🏼👏🏼😎
*"The Avengers"* has been my main go-to Marvel title for years. I do have a few *"West Coast"* issues as well. Good to see them getting covered.
I've always wanted to know more about the West Coast Avengers! Thank you!
Wow, fantastic video, this was absolutely fascinating!
Great job on this video! I was born in the beginning of the 90s so I missed the initial run of WCA. However I have learned much about them over time and I have picked up a few back issues over the years. Force Works was a really cool team. I have read a lot of their comics too! Definitely worth a separate video! I love your comic history recaps!
West Coast Avengers was probably my first comic love, reading my dad's back issues in the late 90s. Awesome vid
Great information as always. Thank you and merry Christmas.
Happy holidays!
I read this series back in the day and really liked it. It was a must buy for me as a kid.
a video i wasn’t too sure about but loved ! awesome vid
Thanks so much!
Thanks for that video. I have read only bits of West Coast, but it's nice to have the context on the series. Keep up the great work, Owen! 🙂
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've always been interested in the west coast avengers, great video
Wow! Awesome awesome job! Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
The artwork on West Coast Avengers was fantastic!
I used to buy West Coast Avengers comics growing up. I liked how Hawkeye, Wonder Man, Wanda & Vision, Rhodey, Tigra, Mockingbird & other Avengers were portrayed. The storylines & team lineups were interesting. It was also cool to see the team someplace other than their home in NYC.
In Galactic Storm, the members of the group that Captain America disagreed with (for executing the Kree Supreme Intelligence) were mainly members of Cap’s own New York team, though Iron Man stepped in to lead them for that mission.
They should bring West Coast Avengers as a Disney Plus Show of their Non-Theatrical Characters.
Now I just need a video about the Gatherers saga in the mainline Avengers book. If that happens, I'll die happy
Great Video From The West Coast Avengers
Glad you enjoyed it
love the new intro!!
Some of my favorite videos you have done have been on things like the Ultimates and Hero’s Reborn and Return…. Any plans to do a video on the Marvel Knights imprint? 😊
I always have a had a soft spot for the west coast Avengers as I could get double treat each month with the east coast Avengers as well .
I'm a huge WCA fan. good vid
West Coast Avengers was my introduction to the Avengers and many of them are still my favorite Avengers characters in general. I loved how they felt like this underdog team.
In my opinion I kind of prefer the west coast avengers title to the main avengers title at the time because it kind of had a sense of humour until like many titles the 90s happened but in my opinion it's a really underated series and come on marvel bring the team into the MCU please
I never knew much about this team. It’s just that I saw some of these figures for sale on Amazon I was considering buying so I thought I better do some research on them first. Thanks for this video.
Glad I could help!
It would be great if you do a video about the legion of super heros. I want to start reading about then but don't know where to start
I was so in love with Strawberry Blonde Spider-Woman back then 😍😍😍
I have every issue of this comic. It was a great way to look at a new characters with the old guard to help them achieve greatest potential.
I collected WCA for the 1st year or 2, thanks so much Owen.
Very welcome!
The Steve Englehart too brief run is one of my favorites.
Englehart's runs on damned near everything he did were both damned good and far too short. Why Marvel didn't or couldn't keep him on a title long-term is a mystery to me, the man was a hell of a writer.
One of the best avengers comic series great writers great artists great teat all around great excellent video review overall. You should cover mark gruenwald next
Thank you! Gruenwald is a legend, any particular books of his you'd like to hear me talk about?
@@OwenLikesComics his cap run obviously quasar squadron supreme and the new universe line
@@ginofrancejr555 True, his Cap run was one of the best ever
New Universe as a whole is probably going to be a big video for next year.
I collected every issue of this comic, even had a Marvel mailing subscription (it was the 80’s)
Great vid. Thanks for making mention of how women characters were treated.
I read AWC starting in the 90’s & DAMN those issue were so good. Definitely an under rated gem.
West Coast Avengers as a regular series started around the same time as The Defenders ended. Defenders as always the book with the "mistfit" oddball heroes. This way they could give some other characters a shot on catching on...so a twist on a recycled idea...using a recognizable brand.
I bought the WCA miniseries then the ongoing. LOVED the original WCA lineup and stories. Your overview of the series is very enjoyable.
Much appreciated!
Looking forward to seeing it...
My Avengers from the 1980s
when I was growing up, this was my favorite comic book back in the days, I used to love the WCA's
I’ve been waiting for this one!! West Coast Avengers is one of my favorite books I’ve read in my short time reading Marvel comics so far! 😁
I’ve found that when reading team books like the Avengers, it really depends on whose on the team that makes me want to read it. When I first read WCA it was because I thought that was a unique and fun team and I wanted to see how it played out. I wasn’t disappointed. Englehart’s run specifically is some of my favorite stuff I’ve read and the team dynamics are fun and engaging, with Hawkeye as the leader & Mockingbird as second in command, Tigra as the “newbie”, the rotating guests of Moon Knight and Ben Grimm, the one sided rivalry Wonder Man tries to start with token founder Iron Man (in his Silver Centurion armor no less!!) 😂 Gosh this was a fun set of comics.
I have to be the unpopular opinion though and say Byrne came along and ruined everything. I remember Vision and Wanda officially joining the team after guest appearing a few times, then the very next issue the bad stuff starts. (Maybe I missed something somewhow?? It sure seems like I did, the tonal whiplash was incredible…) It was a shame because even though I still liked the books and the team after that, it didn’t give me the same sense of satisfaction as it did at the beginning with that initial lineup. 😔 (Like….I’m not really a fan of U.S. Agent? I didn’t need him to be there…I really loved Vision and Wanda as a couple and hated to see them broken up and broken down…💔 I don’t really like Julia Carpenter Spider-Woman, give me Jessica Drew ANY day of the week…)
Despite all that, West Coast Avengers is still a fine book and it’s a shame it was done so dirty at the end. Of course, I can only say this as one reading it in hindsight but…well, I can’t help that lol 😅
Great video, as usual!! 👍🏽
You're not alone. John Byrne killed the momentum. Prior to Byrne, WCA was neck in neck in sales with the Avengers, some months outselling the parent series. But sales peaked with Byrne's first few issues, indicating that readership wasn't liking what he was putting down.
What made WCA interesting initially was that it was the same vibe as early Defenders and Champions; a non-group of B-listers that had been overlooked by A-list characters (and subtly, overlooked by comic buyers.) Englehart understood that vibe, Byrne didn't. Byrne was trying to turn WCA into his iteration of the X-Men, and he failed.
I actually like the Julia Carpenter SW, but you're right that Jessica Drew is by far the best. Why she isn't A-list is beyond me.
My favorite "avengers" group is Great Lakes Avengers.
Hawkeye’s reaction to what happened to Mockingbird never made sense. John Byrne was cut off mid-story with the Scarlet Witch, though his influence is obvious in how she’s been portrayed ever since. The Thing was perfect for this crew. The two Avengers teams clashing for an Annual was awesome too.
And the spinoff : the Great Lakes Avengers.
When I was a kid, I liked the Avengers, but I LOVED the West Coast Avengers! It felt more like that book was living up to the Avengers legacy than the core book was at the time. I love John Byrne's work, but I DESPISED what he did to West Coast Avengers. It was one thing how he was constantly deconstructing Alpha Flight. They were pretty much his creations. But he just did irreparable damage to the West Coast Avengers. He ruined Vision and Scarlet Witch. They had been two of my favorite characters for most of my comic collecting life, but they've never gotten back since then. He took away all of Vision's work to become more human and he just turned Scarlet Witch into a villain. Which is pretty much what everyone sees them as now. Flying Spock and Crazy Witch Lady. Bringing back the original Human Torch was a lame move. I mean, the character had been revealed to be the core of Vision years before, but Byrne just decided to bulldoze that and make a super confusing story. Toward the end of his run, I was just kind of done. Never really got back into Avengers since then. Good work, John!
I loved this comic
Mockingbird: what is my purpose?
The writers: to suffer.
i LOVED the West Coast Avengers as a kid and i wanna see a WCA Movie or a Tv Maxi-series
I’ve always had a love for this team, particularly that first year of issues. The Ultron story was so good!
Also, this may be a slip up, but Byrne’s Man of Steel was six issues, not twelve.
This series probably had the largest use of Tigra than any other series
do you think you can do a video on frank millers batman? like the story of the dark knight returns universe? Or possibly a video on the white knight universe? or a video on how what if from marvel became so popular?
I have covered both What If? and the original White Knight series.
Me randomly sliding over to Amazon and checking out trades and omnis for West Coast Avengers 🤓.
It's tempting, right?
@@OwenLikesComics it so is. One of the Epic Collection volumes is on sale for $25. You sold it hard, man. I've only got one issue of the comics and it's issue 100 with the shiny red Mephisto cover but I don't think I've read it in the years I've had it.
The original 4 parter was the beginning of my lifelong love of Marvel
I liked WCA! They were a fun team. Ben Grimm was also a member of the team for a brief time.
I loved the adventures of the Wackos as they were referred to at times.
You should do a video on the Avengers Academy series next, since you mentioned it here. That was fantastic run that started an almost completely unknown cast of characters, and had them organically earn their place as heroes( something both Marvel and DC have forgotten how to do today with all the mantle swaps)
Plus, the book also balanced action, drama, solid character development and fun seamlessly. Bendis’ New Avengers was all style and no substance by comparison.
If you decide to cover more underrated Spin Off teams in the future, Generation X might be an interesting discussion, especially if you contrast them against the new mutants
Byrne's crush on the Scarlet Witch and disgust at her marriage to a machine ruined a great comics relationship, made Wonder Man out to be a petty wife stealer, made Vision boring, and Wanda a nut job. His entire run feels like him being pissy about past stories he hated instead of being a creator of something new.
I gave the book a try because of Byrne, as many others out there did. At the very least, he got more readers to check the book out. likewise, the galactic storm connected issues.
0:00 where is this comic illustration from??????????????????????????
Born in Rome! I remember conversations at that Civic center - I went in Jan 1983
I quite liked the Family thrmed arc with good Ultron.
You should make a video about the marvel mangaverse someday because the story behind it is hilarious and imo more interesting than the actual manga verse
That's a really good idea!
I now need to get me some OG West Coast Avengers books. I only have the short lived 2019 run because of I love me some Hawkeye. So now I want the original because…Hawkeye (and I’m sure the rest of the roster is cool too).
1) It was during Byrne's run that the book became "Avengers West Coast", you even showed a Byrne cover to show the AWC logo.
2) Your assertion that the WCA featured lesser Avengers is just wrong. What it featured was popular Avengers who weren't being used by writers on the main book. Look at the line-p in Avengers 250-300: Dr. Druid, Sub-Mariner and Marianna, the Black Knight, Hercules, Quasar, She-Hulk, Captain (Monica Rambeau) Marvel, Gilgamesh, Reed and Sue Richards. Yeah, Steve Rogers and Thor may have been around, but compared to a book with Iron Man, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, the Vision, Wonder Man, Hank Pym, the Wasp, and occasionally Quicksilver? The WACos weren't lesser Avengers. They were established Avengers with fan-followings while the creative staff on the main "Avengers" title were getting experimental.
3) I wish editorial interference hadn't chased Byrne out. I would've liked to see his resolution to the situation he had created, not Thomas' damage control.
4) "Force Works".... Taking a brand that was a little tarnished and replacing it with an idea that was just total shit.
@@rosselliswilkinson As opposed to major stars like Dr. Druid, the Black Knight, and Marianna.
force works should have been called xtreme Avengers lol that's what it was a 90s xtreme team lol
@@KennAKALeo Eh. Force Works was fine. Product of its time I suppose. But fine.
The 90s era Avengers West Coast stories are, for me, the archetype of super hero team stories.
Is Force Works a part of AWC legacy?
I have a West Coast Avengers Comic from 80's.
Master Pandemonium NEEDS an MCU appearance..
Once they transition into that knights or BLACK story, whatever it is, cant remember right now, and they FINALLY introduce Mephisto, that's obviously time. He will translate damn well into live action
I just read Prowler tpb and enjoyed it - If the West Coast Avengers ever come back this San Franciscan hero should be in their stories if not part of the new group! Most of the Avenger teams not from NYC are made to be silly (great lakes avengers) but i think they should relaunch all the Avengers to be serious as the NYC branch and because so few characters exist outside of NYC (many of those characters should be moved to other places) new characters can be created and while all of the groups will have the regions most important city as their base. NYC/Chicago/ATL/Houston/L.A./Denver with the Rocky Mountain Range having its own team that has members in the regions of L.A./Houston/Chicago. The main headquarters could be in Denver to show all America is equal as it is being protected from the center of the nation. The West Coast Avengers may be in S.F. because its importance and central location, but i think the other cities i named would definitely be the bases of operation. Of course they may have secondary cities as backup headquarters in each region and smaller facilities (of different sizes) in several other smaller but major cities. - - - I think if they relaunched all the regions within the same year the sales would be huge because fans would all want their regions but many would want all of them.
I can see the West Coast Avengers, or Maybe Force Works being the Disney + Culmination show
force works were on the 90s iron man cartoon as a regular part of the cast
I love comics
It was Wonderman who got me intonthe West Coast Avengers. He was this musceled guy with glowing red eyes who looked more like a villain. I wanted to find out more about him and I brought it.
I remember when Hawkeye got shot up by the gangs and had to get new armor to get revenge lol
I really like seeing iron man being a b-lister