@@foufou81If it had an evf and a shutter I would have considered trading my s5iix for it, but without those two things I just cant even take it seriously.
Transparency is the key. I watched quite a few of the videos and I'd say only about 20% of the RUclipsrs made some kind of disclosure and maybe 10 % made full disclosures i.e. they received free travel, food, lodging and a loaner camera. My level of trust and positivity with the RUclipsrs that made a proper disclosure was way higher. Panasonic spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to influence the RUclips photography viewership and in a way they were too successful because the campaign became too obvious to everyone. Yes it was the straw that broke the camels back. I appreciate that you guys are listening and have self awareness about what happened.
Well we can only be responsible for ourselves I guess. I’m sorry you saw that. Most creators aren’t even aware of the rules and just make the content and post it. We certainly understand the inherent bias ourselves, but both Connor and I have tried our best to be objective about the camera. Like both of us say towards the end of the video, neither one of us would buy this camera ourselves at the current price point. I think the S5 ii is just such a good value it’s hard to buy the S9 over the S5
Thats.a great critique, and respect for chiming in on mine, I hope it was sufficient, I also want to add that sometimes the disclosure culture is a weird sliding scale, where when i had watched previous embargo videos, an explaination how this video came to be ( this is a loaner, or canon sent me x) made sense and that made sense enough I have no issue with speak on disclosure, it did feel like an all out attack with this launch in particular, growing pains!
I noticed the opposite. Almost all the reviews I watched said that Lumix paid for them to attend the event. As in paid for flights, lodging, and meals. They may not have mentioned it right at the beginning but they did mention it. Though personally I think it makes it difficult for reviewers to remain unbiased going on these trips. And it could be a subconscious bias. I just take the reviews with sceptism.
@@johnvillalovos One of Robert Cialdini principles of persuasion is "reciprocity" i.e. when people receive a gift, they feel obligated to reciprocate. You heard some of the RUclipsrs saying how wonderful the hospitality was, yes it's unlikely you are going ***t on them after that!
Yup newbie here...with all due respect and not questioning anyone's integrity, but theres a reason why pharmaceutical companies shower physicians with trips and gifts and speakers fees and incentives and stipends etc: because it works. All things being equal, guess what...they tend to end up writing scripts for the medication. Hate to say it but it's not really that much different in other industries especially that if content creators and influencers. Just sayin. Keep in mind however, that doctors do remain among the most respected professionals around so...
Ok fair enough. Let's keep this sentiment across the board then. Sony, Canon, Fuji, Panasonic, Apple, Tesla, Samsung, Microsoft... if any of those companies send out loaners, pay for flights, or take creators on trips to look at new products, this is the standard we should apply. The reality is, all of the companies listed do this for journalists and RUclipsrs all the time. It would really only take someone having a personal conviction to deny every single request by all these companies in order to have a review channel with that level of integrity. Which is very much possible and very much a real thing and a great idea. Are there any reviewers you personally prefer that you feel does it all right? I personally like MrMobile's approach and disclosures.
@@angeloplayforone Most journalistic organizations wouldn't accept the payment of expenses from a brand to cover it's presser, let alone several days of food and lodging, a short term camera loaner yes but no more than that. Conde Nast Traveler magazine was a famous brand for travel reviews, it's reputation was built on the fact it's writers never accepted free good, travel, and lodging. There is a place of course for what the influencers do with these brand trips but it goes south in my opinion when 1) they don't disclose their relationships 2) they overstate their independence.
@@angeloplayforonebut what’s the interest in covering the product, journalistically? Were they following a lead on a camera breaking new ground or being right for their filmmaking audience? Or did they just get an invite to yet another product release and the sole point in cover it is “hey, this is a product” instead of “hey, this product is the best in its lane” no they are struggling to have an opinion about it because it’s not right for anyone. But they aren’t saying it’s not right for anyone, they are saying uh it’s not THAT bad. Worth a video? Or maybe just another piece of content provided by the hand that feeds.
This is my first time listening to this channel, and I really appreciate the discussion… For me, there’s to many videos / channels where they say “We don’t do paid reviews”, or “this isn’t a paid review”, and then in the next sentence they’ll says “cuz company sent us this camera or lens for free”. There’s also a lot of reviews where folks come off as afraid to share their honest opinion, and it feels like they’re making excuses for what a product lacks. Sometimes it just feels like an infomercial vs a review. There are exceptions of course.
Yeah I hear what you’re saying. I really don’t think it’s a review if we received “compensation” in any capacity. Maybe that’s how we could be more clear. It’s an “overview” or “opinion piece”. But I hope that our honesty shows through all that noise. We all try our absolute best to be unbiased even in light of the trip. Also just for clarity, these trips cost us money in the end, even if they pay for the overall travel. Thanks for listening to the podcast
From one of the people who attended in Japan: === The S9 was not the camera that was planned [for this event] This was not supposed to be the camera we should see in Japan Look at the people who got invited, who are they? Who are their target demographics? Then look at what kind of camera this is? Who is is serving? Look at the marketing Panasonic made on this camera? Does it match the people who got invited? Look at the commercial that they made for this camera. I don't see any filmmakers. Compare that to the people who got invited [to Japan] and their audiences. === For some reason a filmmaker body, i.e. GH7 or S1 mk II, was replaced with the S9 for the Lumix Global Summit.
After mentioning that people think you are hyping the camera up you state that the camera is fun! It is very small, looks better when you put black gaffer tape over the logo, has no evf, no headphone jack and stops recording after 10 minutes. I mean, I know you are camera reviewers but this is not even a R50. And we do not watch your guys content for reviewing TikTok Food reviewers products. Is this product bringing anything new or innovative to the table? The problem is, we know when things are just gimmicks and many of these yt reviewers are reviewing gadgets like this or an insta360 for example like a visionary and very great product. Sometimes, you should pass on reviewing some stuff. This is one of them. It really seems hyped up. imo
You are correct as this is the wrong camera for the reviewers/youtubers it was sent to. We like it cause, guess what, we are RUclipsrs... even though we are in the camera niche... we actually ARE "influencers" which this camera is marketed to. Maybe the disconnect is our audience isn't full of those types of people and a group of actual TikTok instagrammers would have hyped this up more for the intended audience. Also, why is everyone getting mad? It's just a camera. If it's not for you... move on? I just don't get it. We openly discussed the problems with it and shared every disclaimer we could think of in this podcast as well as the description up there. Check it out.
@@GHPod Because you are influencers and our digital mentors, we expect you to take responsibility for your community. An abundance of camera products and a high standard of technical innovation has been achieved. When this happens, manufacturers try to sell gadgets as innovative and you support it. When TV panel technology was perfected, there were curved TVs and they disappeared shortly after. Because they were garbage. You are reviewing curved TVs. You are reviewing everything. With „you“ I mean the camera youtube reviewer community. And just because you are camera reviewers doesn‘t mean that you should review every piece of garbage with a sensor. It is not about the camera with this topic, it is about observing the RUclipsrs' lack of sensitivity in the face of materialistic abundance.
The Lut system is the exciting part. Fuji Film Simulations are a big selling point for getting great colors out of camera without having to deal with Adobe/Capture One etc. I almost bought a s5ii/g9ii just for the “Realtime Lut” feature. The S9 is a good testing ground and hopefully all future Lumix cameras have the full Lut Lab Features.
you also have to remember . if a viewer wants to watch infomercials / adverts , we would watch the shopping channel or turn off our adblockers. We watch camera channels for honest reviews, not 10% nicer reviews because you were all bribed and sweetened up with free stuff and foreign trips/ jollys. Its the responsibility of the youtuber to engage integrity mode right at the outset and many failed so hard. the lack of critical comments were so obvious and it looked like you all skirted around the elephant in the room - it was so blatant you would have to be blind to not see it.
this whole thing is so weird. not sure why people are getting so upset. it’s a camera. we like it. if we bought it with our own money we’d say the same things. we’d say “we are returning these after this review but it’s a fun camera despite its limitations. it’s too expensive for us for a fun camera. but it is fun and has some positive things about it”
@@GHPod so its weird to you? you cant understand why people are so upset? I think you should read some of the comments from viewers. I have my views and im a lumix fan but this event showed how pernicious this space is and the shadyness that goes with it. Long term loaners tax evasion assistance from lumix ? noone having the testicular fortitude to give a visceral gut reaction. Noone called out the joke of a f8 manual lens on a camera with phase detect? really -noone said anything..at all exzcept - its fun. Man you all missed the mark so hard and the wider audience NOTICED A PATTERN. But you wont be critical as you want that long term loaner for the gh7 and the s1hm2 so you are going along to get along. Tax evasion is the way forward chaps.. keep on keeping on.
@@GHPodthis would be a shorter discussion if you said that this camera is for people who have money to waste on bad decisions, on a camera that doesn’t have good enough value proposition for normal people.
I think what's gonna wind up luring people in, is the Lumix LAB app...and how quickly you can put the LUTS in the camera, the amount of looks you can put in the camera, how much you can customize the looks in the camera, and how you can shoot photos + videos with all those looks in the camera, AND NOT HAVE TO EDIT ANYTHING. That's the biggest thing, the ability to save that much TIME.
I was cleaning up which channels I’m subscribed to last week and saw how this channel hasn’t uploaded any content in awhile. Was about to unsubscribe but kept it just in case you guys are still doing the podcast. Now this week, here’s a new episode! Glad you guys are still going at it
It’s not about the sponsor or paid preview or even a review. This clown camera is the same price as an A7Cii in Australia. If it was a tik tok camera why didn’t LUMIX invite 150 tiktokers; no they invited horizontal holders. It’s got a 65:24 in camera crop.. how is that a feature for TikTokers? The Osaka Oligarchs constantly said in their reviews “the camera doesn’t have XYZ to keep the cost down.” …. But the cost isn’t down. It’s up there! To tell me you’re enjoying using a free camera is the same as Hertz giving me a Chevy Cruze.. yeah might be a fun car but I’ll never buy one. You want me to part with $2500 dollarydoos for a fun camera that appears to have a D750 sensor and going to give me an American flag watermark on every image that has modern electronic lighting? I’d have more fun with a G7X. Again: The Osaka crowd said “it’s missing this because they wanted to keep the camera as small as possible.” But they gave small rig licence to make the camera bigger? I’d probably take someone else’s camera out in bad weather than my own. You don’t experience these compromises when you don’t have skin in the game. Money is what you pay and value is what you get.
@@GHPod I think the reason why RUclips melted down on this camera was the wrong creator group was telling the wrong subscribers the wrong camera at the wrong price. It felt like we were getting peddled something garbage after being conditioned over many years that; 1. Rolling shutter bad. 2. Banding bad. 3. Overheating bad. 4. Recording limits bad. 5. Not weathersealed bad. 6. No EVF bad. 7. No headphone jack bad. 8. Sigma L lenses big and heavy, But now it’s all good, cool, fun. LUMIX walked a whole bunch of creators off a cliff.
3 месяца назад
@@GHPodI am not a tiktoker, I am a journalist and I follow all this RUclipsrs, I have a s5, I want the S9… I make a lot of video, this camera is good for that, is Colorfull, the people are more confortable posing for this kind of (non pro) cameras… colors could brake the ice…. Size is good… my wife already want one😅
The problem I have, having just pre-ordered an S9, is coming 'up' from MFT (OMD, Panasonic) then to Fujifilm, then getting excited that the S9 gets me a full frame sensor is I don't think I can down grade to no hot shoe, no mechanical shutter and no EVF. Also the price and size of lenses coming from MFT/Fujifilm is a deal breaker; too big, too expensive. I must not be Panasonics market for this; maybe it is just the phone brigade wanting to jump direct to full frame. In fact I just realised a phone doesn't have the three things that are 'missing', an EVF, hot shoe and mechanical shutter. I'll probably have my S9 up for sale quite quickly!
Following up over two months later, the S9 is my favorite camera. Seriously! LOL. I use it every day with my kids. It's not really a "pro" camera to me (even though it really could be) I made a whole video breaking it all down. Curious what you think of yours now that it's been a month! Did you receive it? Here's my vid ruclips.net/video/eYgMTt_t9ZE/видео.html
It's a video-centric camera wrapped in a photo-centric body being marketed as a life-style camera. What were they thinking... 🤔 Panasonic got so close to getting it right, yet they fumbled it so badly with the omission of EVF & mechanical shutter, and not housing it in a more of a rangefinder-like body. They should've positioned this camera as an X100VI alternative, yet they designed something close to Sony ZV-E1.. 😅
Dudes, monitoring a mic output is NOT the same as monitoring the cameras recorded audio, every audio guy learns this in the fisrt minute of day 1 at audio school. Come on Panasonic its 2024 give us a hwadphone jack.
lol of course i’m aware of this. thankfully lumix has great level gauges on camera. not perfect solutions here but better than nothing at all. especially for lav mics (when the main reason i listen is for ruffling clothes or hair on the mic) i understand that’s not a perfect solution, but again, just a workaround
@GHPod wayyyy too many workarounds required for this camera. Can we all just be honest with each other for once and admit it isn't a very good camera and it's way overpriced.
Connor, you mentioned that maybe you were 10% nicer because they flew you out to Japan. I think we can all learn to be 10% nicer in general, especially in the comments section. Just because I disagree with someone or don’t like what they say, I don’t need to be mean about it. I watched your review, I liked it. I would like to thank both of you for this podcast.
On the note of lumix innovating in the camera space it would be amazing to see a camera that lets you connect Bluetooth headphones to monitor audio. Can you imagine just pairing an AirPod to your camera eliminating the need for that headphone jack?
That plus the form factor, plus the XPan mode, plus the anamorphic support, plus the open gate is why I liked it. But the negative are plentiful as well
I (david) don’t use the LUTs all that much. Something I forgot to mention in the podcast is the amazing Leica Monochrom profile that’s in this camera that the G9ii has. I’ve been using that and standard picture profile mostly! i think it’s fun because it’s so tiny.
Not sure if it matters but the 26mm F8 lens is included on Pre-Orders for the S9 from Panasonic. So it's a nice lens for being free. I'm hoping this cameras gives me the grab and go fun factor that gives me quality images. Compared to my 7RV/GFX100S/XT5 I want to take this camera to enjoy in my personal life, bring a smile to my face, and yes have personality. I would want to throw it in a bag for moments in my daily grind 9 to 5. I enjoy anything that inspires. Keep up the good work, I'm glad you guys get chances to test out new equipment and having fun. It would be nice if you guys post some photos from the S9, I am really interested in how people use the camera and LUTS to take photos.
this camera doesnt make sense. they are marketing it to the tiktok crowd - why bring youtubers and not the tiktokkers ? if its for people who want great quality in a compact size ( for noobs) why use a fullframe sensor ? noobs dont know the diff between fullframe and m43 a m43 sensor with great autofocus would have been a better choice and brought the cost down substantially this at 1500 is a turkey from the get go. then the ergonomics - not one of the tubers mentioned the bad ergonomics on its own...but here is a smallrig grip that i would strongly reccomend - its $$$ and didnt mention that additional cost then the youtubers who didnt give their gut reaction, they all outted themselves as uncritical shills. its all just very deceptive and predictable tbh. Some tubers are more guilty than others.
Personally if I'm using a camera for 'fun', full frame would be kind of overkill. The image quality isn't worth the tradeoff that comes with the lens sizes. This would've been perfect as a new micro four thirds GX rangefinder and I fully believe that micro four thirds would have at least been able to allow the camera to record for longer durations, removing one of the big compromises that this camera has.
thankfully you can take photos in a crop mode, so you could use any L (or TL mount) for APSC as well giving you much smaller lenses. I am actually looking at the older Elmarit-TL 18mm f2.8 with the S9. Could be fun
Great episode guys! The S9 looks like a really fun camera! As an owner of the S5II I think this will be a nice complimentary camera. It will be a great camera to throw on a gimbal, mount on a car, etc. Excited to play around with it and just have some fun!
For sure! And you’re the perfect audience for this camera IMO. A great B or C camera for those moments where it makes sense, but mostly, a great camera to take everywhere when you are out with friends and family that uses the same lenses and batteries as your S5 I will say, I really really miss not having an EVF. And like we said, we both think it’s a bit overpriced. $999 would be a bargain. $1299 is the better prince point to differentiate it from the S5 ii
Incredible to think how literally every camera company, every car company, every tech company in general has been doing the exact same thing for decades to promote their new releases, yet one guy doesn't get the invite and its all on Lumix. Bad taste in the mouth.
Exactly. Look at musicians.... they are all sponsored by companies. Like guitar players get paid by Gibson, Fender, etc. to play their instruments and they don't even disclose it! It's weird this one took off like this. I think it's just a mismatch of audiences. This camera isn't for the filmmaking crowd. It's for hipsters mostly lol
Exactly what I thought. Interesting that the person who didn't get invited is suddenly now unhappy with how camera manufacturers promote their products...sounds like sour grapes to me. Camera manufacturers and reviewers that aren't bankrolled by a publication or have a butt load cash exist in a symbiotic relationship. Apart from the product ambassadors that are also youtubers, all the people I follow for camera reviews are able to provide balanced reviews that demonstrate the pros and cons while maintaining their relationships with marketing and disclosing accordingly. insta360 asking reviews to not disclose sponsorships is one thing, but reviewers playing the game for timely access to new gear is perfectly acceptable. Y'all are good people and it sucks that someone tried to smear everyone else's reputation because they feel left out.
That is somewhat true. Content creators just have to be very transparent. Being sent to Japan and getting accommodations does of course impact your results. I am not in the position to make significant decisions but even I have to disclose every coffee I get because it may change the way I decide.
Definitely wanting to upgrade my S5 for the IIX first, but the S9 seems like a fun daily around town vlogger/street photographer cam! That green is so sick. I think it’s easy for us to think cameras are only for us “professionals” (whatever that even means) when there are so many other niche markets that a camera like this is perfect for. Also it’s kinda weird how this literally happened last year for the S5 II/X launch and I don’t remember seeing nearly any backlash like this, and yet this year there is? Maybe because people think the camera sucks this time around? Idk man. It’s weird. And I agree with the Sony thing too. Definitely a double standard. And studios provide free screenings for film critics all the time and no one bats an eye. It’s just part of the game. Many in the camera space have proven to be as straight forward and honest as possible, we as the viewers should be more willing to extend grace.
You can't really compare the S5 II (X) to the S9. The former has absolutely everything (prolly except for a more modern sensor - no 4k60p crop etc.) one would need at that price point. The S9 is severely dumbed-down.
I would have bought this camera over the sony zv-e1 but the s9 wasn't out in 2023. My main need are ibis, nice straight out of camera color science, and small travel size camera. Great video. Have a good one!
Cool that you guys are keeping this up occasionally and happy to hear your thoughts around this. There are many differences for sure, and I hear ya on the issues with Canon's upgrade path. But as of today on sale, you can get a brand new R8 and RF 28mm f2.8 for $1468. Probably not the best option for video-first shooters, but to some extent Canon is already playing on the periphery of this phenomenon with that combo. Clearly not as small or as "fun", but on the positive side you get Canon AF, some of the R6ii guts, and even though the middle is largely lacking there are the many small primes and F4 zooms. Would be cool if they come out with something smaller to compete more directly here.
Great content and discussion! I feel the camera community is way too spec-obsessed lately.. no offense to Gerald Undone but his style of soley technical reviews just feeds into the spec-obsession. Also, does he use cameras for anything other than reviewing other cameras and gear? Lol, i feel this has been addressed in the camera community before but i don't remember if it was ever answered.
Basically, the disappointment is pretty easy to understand: power users wanted something similar in size / weight to the A7C II while offering basically the same niceties the Sony has, apart from obvious stuff like the more advanced sensor . The S9 is a little bit (not much!) larger / heavier than the Sony and lacks some important stuff that the Sony does have (EVF + mech. shutter). The Sony's having a grip isn't that big a problem. Ofc S9 has much more advanced video than the A7C II - the Sony for example severely lacks 6K Open Gate (the poor man's 8K). Too bad it doesn't have any way of shooting longer clips either; that's a big minus too for people that do want to shoot longer. Finally, the price. It's (S9 body only) actually more (by 100eur) expensive in Europe (1799eur) now than the vastly superior S5 II. Now, if it was around 1000eur or was offered in a kit with, say, the 28-200 for, say, 1800eur...
What if they made an lx 100 iii with an apsc sensor with the new fangled tiktok features... seems like that would buy them some lost fujifilm market share... they already have everything that would make that an amazing camera
your remark regarding the joystick rises a question. Why do you need a joystick if you're not using an EVF ? right hand on the trigger, left thumb on the touchscreen ... ?
I agree with @hanumanguy , it's the transparency and disclosures that are key. There are more than a few RUclipsr's who wasn't as good about disclosing the benefits that were given to be a reviewer. I like how Chris and Jordan did it with the S5II, they said they would return the cameras/lenses and buy it for themselves if they like it. I believe Gerald's video just brought more focus to it because of how he was treated by LUMIX JP vs LUMIX NA in his explanations. Jared Polin also got treated similarly by Fujifilm JP vs Fujifilm NA and that is why he hasn't touched a product from them in ages. Asian countries have a culture of saving face, so if a criticism is perceived as giving no face, then they will take offense to it. Also the way RUclipsr's handled the PR issue is part of their fault because they added fuel to the fire to fight the negativity with fire and it's definitely easy to fall into that trap but it's how it goes down even in customer service. The true culprit is LUMIX Marketing department on how the PR event was handled. This is a blatant marketing push without respect to consider how consumer sentiment would be around this. They flew high end camera content creator to push a product that is supposedly targeted to more entry to mid level TikToker's/IG/Social Media peeps. It's correct how David and Connor saying it doesn't speak to the audience of the RUclipsr's that were invited, so it's the fault of LUMIX Marketing not doing their homework, or it could be even calculated that they wanted high respected people in the industry to market their product to gain legitimacy. Also some of the titles to describe the S9 is clickbait and that is RUclips's algorithm issue. LUMIX also pricing their S9 to be near 1500 with exclusions in the product felt like they were rushing to market to get something out to capture market hype around the X100VI. S9 brings some neat ideas but this to me is like how Canon released the EOS M and M50 to show Canon could do mirrorless but canon crippled it beyond belief. LUMIX showing they can make a X100VI Full Frame competitor but it was rushed.
Oh boy, I'm a plane Jane looking for a new camera and could not understand this whole drama for the life of me. Can you please be helpful, and answer this, since you actually used this camera: you say that with a few extra hundred dollars the S5 is a better option, but I'm not a professional, so does it produce better pictures? Like the image quality itself would be better? Because I also hear people say "it has the same hardware as S5", so it leaves me confused. I'm not looking at S5 because I already have a Sony professional camera with the bells and whistles, and I never take it with me when I go out, because it's too bulky. I'm looking for the tiniest camera with the best image quality, is the S9 a nice option? I thought so, because it's full frame, and I thought that means crisp and pretty photos. I will never use flash, I owned camera for 6 years and not once put EVF to my eye... Simply put, I want to take pictures for memories of things I do, and I want them to look as pretty as they can. A phone is lacking, so I started thinking of a small "good guts" camera. Again, the crispest on the go images in the smallest body - am I looking at the right direction? I tried to go on the linked Instagram, as one of you guys mentioned taking good pictures in Japan with this camera, but I didn't see any pictures posted...
S9 will sell crazily well at $$1,100-1,200 price point, or $1,300 with 28mm f2.8. No place for 26mm f8. Other brands can make small FF, but none of them has the IBIS as good as Lumix, not even close.
Saying that it looks cool w/ an F8 manual focus plastic lens is pretty lame. Put a real lens on there, then you add the grip b/c it's uncomfortable, and now you have a a setup that's the same price as the current S5ii bundle but with some unpleasant side effects. What did you get by losing the headphone jack, EVF, mechanical shutter, etc? 200 grams. I don't think I've seen a single reviewer say why shaving off 200g was worth the banding, the lack of flash, the difficulty to focus in bright daylight, etc.
@@GHPod yeah. I think they’re bringing that software for other cameras so the S5ii a no brainier especially when it’s on sale with a prime lens for free
A certain percentage of people feel gaslit by these companies, and it happens over and over and over. You have chosen to be the messenger. Be prepared for the backlash, or don't go. Is that fair? Probably not, but it is the reality.
how are we gaslighting when we’re simply telling you the truth about something? we happen to love cameras and technology. shared the positives and negatives. no lies are told. all disclaimers shared. don’t get the backlash
@@GHPod COMPANIES are gaslighting a percentage of users, you had a choice to do a video or not. Obviously you didn't recognize there may be blowback or you did not care. In either case YOU are the messenger. Congrats, you got to go to Japan, but you also get to field all the complaints, Panasonic DOES NOT. There is a a reason there is a phrase "don't kill the messenger"
Yes you can use the Ninja V as a solution to the recording limit, however you will need to get a dummy battery for the camera if you are doing very long takes where the battery would die. It can't be powered via USB-C. It can only charge it when the camera is off over USB-C
26:26 What about the Canon R8? It is cheap and better in many ways, it also has 28 2.8 pancake option... 16 2.8... It has shutter, 4k 60p no crop, faster sensor. Yes it does not have LUTs but if this camera is targeted to beginner/not a nerd people what is more important?
It's a killer deal if you're into Canon! Doesn't have best in class IBIS, 6k open gate, vlog, shutter angle, waveforms etc.. and it is bigger. So if size, and the video features are more important, the S9 is a thing! I understand the people who need those things is a niche and not a large group. The R8 will certainly sell more.
It’s weird to even be defending this product if you guys aren’t going to buy one. What’s the point? It’s literally got a reputation of being a dud and you come out to say well it’s not a dud, it’s just a little wierd. Oh! Ok, so YOU are the customer they made this for, right? Oh, no…you wouldn’t buy it either. I’m at a loss as to why it needs defending. So it’s only valuable to a special type of person listening to you that was given one for free *keep it it ain’t that bad* or if they got it as a loaner *hey that was pretty fun to use I guess*
it’s for people who can afford it! if connor and i were making enough money i think both he and i would be in the market for us. but if it were up to me at the moment with the amount of money i make (roughly $80,000 a year with a stay at home wife and three kids) it wouldn’t make sense to buy this.
I think you guys are giving too many passes for this camera. Its not a good photography camera because of read speeds and electronic shutter only. You will get banding and lots of other reviewers have shows issues at higher shutter speeds. Lack of weather sealing makes this a terrible travel camera. A little drizzle will not make you want to use this.
I wouldn't say "it's not good for photography" when I have taken a ton of great photos with it. It's not black and white. Also, need to verify, but I thought the camera actually was weather sealed. Need to follow up with Panasonic.
@@GHPod It won't let me post a link, but there is a lot of info on it not being weather sealed from big sites. There are also reviews from people like Petapixel that point out banding etc. I can also take great pictures with a Holga 120, but is it good?
The S9 is not useful or "fun" for me...A pair Sony A7c(1) plus an older A7s suffice for all my needs..I really wanted Panasonic to come out with a GX9 (11) and OM to. upgrade the old Pen F...But...But...No avail...I have recently dumped all of my M43 gear as I see no. future in it for skinny/lightweight (rangefinder) gear....Any way the Sony gear handles things quite well. Cheers
I would rather have to carry a handful of smaller batteries in exchange for a mechanical shutter. What difference does a big battery make if we cant even shoot for longer than 10/15 mins? Lmaooo am I wrong tho?? They literally made that decision, and cancelled out the mechanical shutter for the much larger battery size...? I honestly believe that that was the literal straw that finally broke the camels back decision. Would have also made all of the other strange choices/sacrifices that they made, that much easier to swallow
Why defend this mediocre product with its batshit insane pricing? The record limits alone are inexcusable. 20 min record limit for 1080p in 2024? For a 1500 dollar camera? Batshit crazy.
Over the past 6 months, Lumix has stepped up their YT influencer game - BIG TIME! They are literally PAYING people to switch. The one that stands out the most is Lizzie Pierce. Her "I'm switching" video has over 150K views and she says herself that Lumix doesn't offer anything new - so why switch? Oh, I know, $$$$$$$!! If one product is better than another or offers a superior user experience (Leica anyone?), that's fine. Sales will increase organically. There should be no need to pay someone to use it. So, when Lumix flies professional YT'ers halfway across the world on their dime to launch a crappy overpriced camera to generate more sales, and all you see are glowing reviews, real people call BS. It's obvious that if you say something negative, you're out. Half the stuff I buy does not meet my expectations - and I let people know that. But I also let them know when something is great. It works both ways and builds trust. Let's be real, the S9 is just not good at that price point - and not one reviewer said it for fear of retribution. Even Connor's body language in THIS video looks like he is being held hostage. What Lumix is doing is very different than the way Sony/Canon/Nikon operate. They are purposely trying to hide sponsorship like some other sketchy companies (looking at you Insta360) and people are sick of it. No one has any issue with people going on these press trips, but for love of all that is good in this world, please be authentic and if something sucks, tell us. Love that the podcast is back - keep up the great work!!
We said many times this camera is overpriced for what it is. But it’s legitimately fun to use if you can afford it. We mention at the end of this podcast neither one of us would buy this camera ourselves when the S5 ii is available and is so close in price. As for Lizzie or anyone else legitimately getting paid by LUMIX, I don’t know if that’s true for her but certainly many companies do this. Canon Ambassors, Sony Alpha shooters, Nikon I know pays people. This is common in many industries. Guitars for example, many big guitarist are sponsored by Gibson, Fender, etc. Then they even make a signature guitar with that artist. This is common. It’s just important to remember we are just people doing our jobs to the best of our ability. I stand by everything I say in this podcast and for Connor, I know he does too.
This companies are getting slick about avoiding sponsorship disclosure..example....companies don't sponsor a specific video, but sponsor a channel for the entire year....long term loaner..things like that..the gray area is being played hard and the creators are playing right along...so what are we to do? Ignore the initial reviews.. wait a few weeks, find a channel with 200 subs that put their own money into it and see what they have to say.
"The one that stands out the most is Lizzie Pierce. Her "I'm switching" video has over 150K views and she says herself that Lumix doesn't offer anything new - so why switch? Oh, I know, $$$$$$$!! " Features are available but nothing new. But IBIS is better. Built in LUTs is better. Its cheaper. Open gate is old but better to have.
It was fun to make an episode again! Thank you everyone who has been a listener for so long!
I got a Lumix GM1 and this is all I want: full frame, estabilization and autofocus. I have a S5 too, but I still want the s9
Yeah it’s a great camera for some people! I really miss having an EVF. that’s the ONE thing I really wish it had
@@GHPodI am 44 too😅
same here. I have a S52 and I had to buy a GX9 along with a new set of lenses. Instead, with the S9, you get smaller with the same set of lenses.
@@foufou81If it had an evf and a shutter I would have considered trading my s5iix for it, but without those two things I just cant even take it seriously.
Transparency is the key. I watched quite a few of the videos and I'd say only about 20% of the RUclipsrs made some kind of disclosure and maybe 10 % made full disclosures i.e. they received free travel, food, lodging and a loaner camera. My level of trust and positivity with the RUclipsrs that made a proper disclosure was way higher. Panasonic spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to influence the RUclips photography viewership and in a way they were too successful because the campaign became too obvious to everyone. Yes it was the straw that broke the camels back. I appreciate that you guys are listening and have self awareness about what happened.
Well we can only be responsible for ourselves I guess. I’m sorry you saw that. Most creators aren’t even aware of the rules and just make the content and post it. We certainly understand the inherent bias ourselves, but both Connor and I have tried our best to be objective about the camera.
Like both of us say towards the end of the video, neither one of us would buy this camera ourselves at the current price point. I think the S5 ii is just such a good value it’s hard to buy the S9 over the S5
Thats.a great critique, and respect for chiming in on mine, I hope it was sufficient, I also want to add that sometimes the disclosure culture is a weird sliding scale, where when i had watched previous embargo videos, an explaination how this video came to be ( this is a loaner, or canon sent me x) made sense and that made sense enough I have no issue with speak on disclosure, it did feel like an all out attack with this launch in particular, growing pains!
@@KofiYeboah We love you Kofi!
I noticed the opposite. Almost all the reviews I watched said that Lumix paid for them to attend the event. As in paid for flights, lodging, and meals. They may not have mentioned it right at the beginning but they did mention it.
Though personally I think it makes it difficult for reviewers to remain unbiased going on these trips. And it could be a subconscious bias. I just take the reviews with sceptism.
@@johnvillalovos One of Robert Cialdini principles of persuasion is "reciprocity" i.e. when people receive a gift, they feel obligated to reciprocate. You heard some of the RUclipsrs saying how wonderful the hospitality was, yes it's unlikely you are going ***t on them after that!
Yup newbie here...with all due respect and not questioning anyone's integrity, but theres a reason why pharmaceutical companies shower physicians with trips and gifts and speakers fees and incentives and stipends etc: because it works. All things being equal, guess what...they tend to end up writing scripts for the medication. Hate to say it but it's not really that much different in other industries especially that if content creators and influencers. Just sayin. Keep in mind however, that doctors do remain among the most respected professionals around so...
Ok fair enough. Let's keep this sentiment across the board then. Sony, Canon, Fuji, Panasonic, Apple, Tesla, Samsung, Microsoft... if any of those companies send out loaners, pay for flights, or take creators on trips to look at new products, this is the standard we should apply.
The reality is, all of the companies listed do this for journalists and RUclipsrs all the time. It would really only take someone having a personal conviction to deny every single request by all these companies in order to have a review channel with that level of integrity. Which is very much possible and very much a real thing and a great idea.
Are there any reviewers you personally prefer that you feel does it all right? I personally like MrMobile's approach and disclosures.
@@GHPodBut going to this event is part of journalism. Covering a new products and present it to your audience.
@@angeloplayforone Most journalistic organizations wouldn't accept the payment of expenses from a brand to cover it's presser, let alone several days of food and lodging, a short term camera loaner yes but no more than that. Conde Nast Traveler magazine was a famous brand for travel reviews, it's reputation was built on the fact it's writers never accepted free good, travel, and lodging. There is a place of course for what the influencers do with these brand trips but it goes south in my opinion when 1) they don't disclose their relationships 2) they overstate their independence.
@@angeloplayforonebut what’s the interest in covering the product, journalistically? Were they following a lead on a camera breaking new ground or being right for their filmmaking audience? Or did they just get an invite to yet another product release and the sole point in cover it is “hey, this is a product” instead of “hey, this product is the best in its lane” no they are struggling to have an opinion about it because it’s not right for anyone. But they aren’t saying it’s not right for anyone, they are saying uh it’s not THAT bad. Worth a video? Or maybe just another piece of content provided by the hand that feeds.
This is my first time listening to this channel, and I really appreciate the discussion… For me, there’s to many videos / channels where they say “We don’t do paid reviews”, or “this isn’t a paid review”, and then in the next sentence they’ll says “cuz company sent us this camera or lens for free”. There’s also a lot of reviews where folks come off as afraid to share their honest opinion, and it feels like they’re making excuses for what a product lacks. Sometimes it just feels like an infomercial vs a review. There are exceptions of course.
Yeah I hear what you’re saying. I really don’t think it’s a review if we received “compensation” in any capacity. Maybe that’s how we could be more clear. It’s an “overview” or “opinion piece”. But I hope that our honesty shows through all that noise. We all try our absolute best to be unbiased even in light of the trip. Also just for clarity, these trips cost us money in the end, even if they pay for the overall travel. Thanks for listening to the podcast
@@ConnorMcCaskill2 I can only speak to this one episode so far, but it felt very genuine. Hope you’ll post again soon.
From one of the people who attended in Japan:
===
The S9 was not the camera that was planned [for this event]
This was not supposed to be the camera we should see in Japan
Look at the people who got invited, who are they?
Who are their target demographics?
Then look at what kind of camera this is? Who is is serving?
Look at the marketing Panasonic made on this camera? Does it match the people who got invited?
Look at the commercial that they made for this camera. I don't see any filmmakers.
Compare that to the people who got invited [to Japan] and their audiences.
===
For some reason a filmmaker body, i.e. GH7 or S1 mk II, was replaced with the S9 for the Lumix Global Summit.
you’re quoting me saying that on Brandon Washington’s Unsensored 🤓
After mentioning that people think you are hyping the camera up you state that the camera is fun! It is very small, looks better when you put black gaffer tape over the logo, has no evf, no headphone jack and stops recording after 10 minutes.
I mean, I know you are camera reviewers but this is not even a R50. And we do not watch your guys content for reviewing TikTok Food reviewers products.
Is this product bringing anything new or innovative to the table?
The problem is, we know when things are just gimmicks and many of these yt reviewers are reviewing gadgets like this or an insta360 for example like a visionary and very great product. Sometimes, you should pass on reviewing some stuff. This is one of them. It really seems hyped up. imo
You are correct as this is the wrong camera for the reviewers/youtubers it was sent to. We like it cause, guess what, we are RUclipsrs... even though we are in the camera niche... we actually ARE "influencers" which this camera is marketed to. Maybe the disconnect is our audience isn't full of those types of people and a group of actual TikTok instagrammers would have hyped this up more for the intended audience.
Also, why is everyone getting mad? It's just a camera. If it's not for you... move on? I just don't get it. We openly discussed the problems with it and shared every disclaimer we could think of in this podcast as well as the description up there. Check it out.
@@GHPod Because you are influencers and our digital mentors, we expect you to take responsibility for your community.
An abundance of camera products and a high standard of technical innovation has been achieved.
When this happens, manufacturers try to sell gadgets as innovative and you support it.
When TV panel technology was perfected, there were curved TVs and they disappeared shortly after. Because they were garbage.
You are reviewing curved TVs.
You are reviewing everything. With „you“ I mean the camera youtube reviewer community. And just because you are camera reviewers doesn‘t mean that you should review every piece of garbage with a sensor. It is not about the camera with this topic, it is about observing the RUclipsrs' lack of sensitivity in the face of materialistic abundance.
The Lut system is the exciting part. Fuji Film Simulations are a big selling point for getting great colors out of camera without having to deal with Adobe/Capture One etc.
I almost bought a s5ii/g9ii just for the “Realtime Lut” feature.
The S9 is a good testing ground and hopefully all future Lumix cameras have the full Lut Lab Features.
you also have to remember .
if a viewer wants to watch infomercials / adverts , we would watch the shopping channel or turn off our adblockers.
We watch camera channels for honest reviews, not 10% nicer reviews because you were all bribed and sweetened up with free stuff and foreign trips/ jollys.
Its the responsibility of the youtuber to engage integrity mode right at the outset and many failed so hard.
the lack of critical comments were so obvious and it looked like you all skirted around the elephant in the room - it was so blatant you would have to be blind to not see it.
Making the rounds I see. Buy a different camera
@@ConnorMcCaskill2 defensive?
this whole thing is so weird. not sure why people are getting so upset. it’s a camera. we like it. if we bought it with our own money we’d say the same things. we’d say “we are returning these after this review but it’s a fun camera despite its limitations. it’s too expensive for us for a fun camera. but it is fun and has some positive things about it”
@@GHPod so its weird to you? you cant understand why people are so upset?
I think you should read some of the comments from viewers. I have my views and im a lumix fan but this event showed how pernicious this space is and the shadyness that goes with it.
Long term loaners tax evasion assistance from lumix ?
noone having the testicular fortitude to give a visceral gut reaction.
Noone called out the joke of a f8 manual lens on a camera with phase detect? really -noone said anything..at all exzcept - its fun.
Man you all missed the mark so hard and the wider audience NOTICED A PATTERN.
But you wont be critical as you want that long term loaner for the gh7 and the s1hm2 so you are going along to get along.
Tax evasion is the way forward chaps.. keep on keeping on.
@@GHPodthis would be a shorter discussion if you said that this camera is for people who have money to waste on bad decisions, on a camera that doesn’t have good enough value proposition for normal people.
40:32 Cameras used to be fun, love this
Make cameras fun again!
Keep this going, you are both a credit to the camera community and really great at unpicking the gear and this podcast is one of the best there is 👍
Thank you so much Andrew! I hope you are well!
It really is a fun camera to use. If you were here I’d let you play with it and see for yourself.
I think what's gonna wind up luring people in, is the Lumix LAB app...and how quickly you can put the LUTS in the camera, the amount of looks you can put in the camera, how much you can customize the looks in the camera, and how you can shoot photos + videos with all those looks in the camera, AND NOT HAVE TO EDIT ANYTHING. That's the biggest thing, the ability to save that much TIME.
In about a month or two, catching it off Amazon (open box) "Like New" for $1250 will be a steal ! -S5ii owner also.
I was cleaning up which channels I’m subscribed to last week and saw how this channel hasn’t uploaded any content in awhile. Was about to unsubscribe but kept it just in case you guys are still doing the podcast. Now this week, here’s a new episode! Glad you guys are still going at it
i love that. i do the same thing! don’t clear us out. this show isn’t over. we’re just not posting every week anymore.
It’s not about the sponsor or paid preview or even a review. This clown camera is the same price as an A7Cii in Australia. If it was a tik tok camera why didn’t LUMIX invite 150 tiktokers; no they invited horizontal holders. It’s got a 65:24 in camera crop.. how is that a feature for TikTokers? The Osaka Oligarchs constantly said in their reviews “the camera doesn’t have XYZ to keep the cost down.”
…. But the cost isn’t down. It’s up there!
To tell me you’re enjoying using a free camera is the same as Hertz giving me a Chevy Cruze.. yeah might be a fun car but I’ll never buy one. You want me to part with $2500 dollarydoos for a fun camera that appears to have a D750 sensor and going to give me an American flag watermark on every image that has modern electronic lighting?
I’d have more fun with a G7X.
Again: The Osaka crowd said “it’s missing this because they wanted to keep the camera as small as possible.” But they gave small rig licence to make the camera bigger?
I’d probably take someone else’s camera out in bad weather than my own. You don’t experience these compromises when you don’t have skin in the game.
Money is what you pay and value is what you get.
You are correct. I believe they invited the wrong group of creators to Japan to check out this camera. 100%.
@@GHPod I think the reason why RUclips melted down on this camera was the wrong creator group was telling the wrong subscribers the wrong camera at the wrong price.
It felt like we were getting peddled something garbage after being conditioned over many years that;
1. Rolling shutter bad.
2. Banding bad.
3. Overheating bad.
4. Recording limits bad.
5. Not weathersealed bad.
6. No EVF bad.
7. No headphone jack bad.
8. Sigma L lenses big and heavy,
But now it’s all good, cool, fun.
LUMIX walked a whole bunch of creators off a cliff.
@@GHPodI am not a tiktoker, I am a journalist and I follow all this RUclipsrs, I have a s5, I want the S9… I make a lot of video, this camera is good for that, is Colorfull, the people are more confortable posing for this kind of (non pro) cameras… colors could brake the ice…. Size is good… my wife already want one😅
The problem I have, having just pre-ordered an S9, is coming 'up' from MFT (OMD, Panasonic) then to Fujifilm, then getting excited that the S9 gets me a full frame sensor is I don't think I can down grade to no hot shoe, no mechanical shutter and no EVF. Also the price and size of lenses coming from MFT/Fujifilm is a deal breaker; too big, too expensive.
I must not be Panasonics market for this; maybe it is just the phone brigade wanting to jump direct to full frame. In fact I just realised a phone doesn't have the three things that are 'missing', an EVF, hot shoe and mechanical shutter.
I'll probably have my S9 up for sale quite quickly!
Following up over two months later, the S9 is my favorite camera. Seriously! LOL. I use it every day with my kids. It's not really a "pro" camera to me (even though it really could be)
I made a whole video breaking it all down. Curious what you think of yours now that it's been a month! Did you receive it? Here's my vid ruclips.net/video/eYgMTt_t9ZE/видео.html
It's a video-centric camera wrapped in a photo-centric body being marketed as a life-style camera. What were they thinking... 🤔
Panasonic got so close to getting it right, yet they fumbled it so badly with the omission of EVF & mechanical shutter, and not housing it in a more of a rangefinder-like body.
They should've positioned this camera as an X100VI alternative, yet they designed something close to Sony ZV-E1.. 😅
Dudes, monitoring a mic output is NOT the same as monitoring the cameras recorded audio, every audio guy learns this in the fisrt minute of day 1 at audio school.
Come on Panasonic its 2024 give us a hwadphone jack.
lol of course i’m aware of this. thankfully lumix has great level gauges on camera. not perfect solutions here but better than nothing at all. especially for lav mics (when the main reason i listen is for ruffling clothes or hair on the mic)
i understand that’s not a perfect solution, but again, just a workaround
@GHPod wayyyy too many workarounds required for this camera.
Can we all just be honest with each other for once and admit it isn't a very good camera and it's way overpriced.
Connor, you mentioned that maybe you were 10% nicer because they flew you out to Japan. I think we can all learn to be 10% nicer in general, especially in the comments section. Just because I disagree with someone or don’t like what they say, I don’t need to be mean about it. I watched your review, I liked it. I would like to thank both of you for this podcast.
Appreciate the kind words especially with all the negativity lately! Means a lot
On the note of lumix innovating in the camera space it would be amazing to see a camera that lets you connect Bluetooth headphones to monitor audio. Can you imagine just pairing an AirPod to your camera eliminating the need for that headphone jack?
Just found this podcast. I love lumix but glad the topic of youtube influencers is going on
Thanks for joining! Happy you're here! It's good we're having these conversations!
Go to the back catalogue one of the best photography podcasts out.
Guys, nice discussion. Would you have enjoyed this camera if it did not have the lut management system ??? Or is that that made it so fun to use ??
That plus the form factor, plus the XPan mode, plus the anamorphic support, plus the open gate is why I liked it. But the negative are plentiful as well
I (david) don’t use the LUTs all that much. Something I forgot to mention in the podcast is the amazing Leica Monochrom profile that’s in this camera that the G9ii has. I’ve been using that and standard picture profile mostly!
i think it’s fun because it’s so tiny.
Not sure if it matters but the 26mm F8 lens is included on Pre-Orders for the S9 from Panasonic. So it's a nice lens for being free. I'm hoping this cameras gives me the grab and go fun factor that gives me quality images. Compared to my 7RV/GFX100S/XT5 I want to take this camera to enjoy in my personal life, bring a smile to my face, and yes have personality. I would want to throw it in a bag for moments in my daily grind 9 to 5. I enjoy anything that inspires. Keep up the good work, I'm glad you guys get chances to test out new equipment and having fun. It would be nice if you guys post some photos from the S9, I am really interested in how people use the camera and LUTS to take photos.
You guys were great!!! I m in LA. Thanks so much for all your knowledge and expertise.
Melanie
this camera doesnt make sense.
they are marketing it to the tiktok crowd - why bring youtubers and not the tiktokkers ?
if its for people who want great quality in a compact size ( for noobs) why use a fullframe sensor ? noobs dont know the diff between fullframe and m43
a m43 sensor with great autofocus would have been a better choice and brought the cost down substantially
this at 1500 is a turkey from the get go.
then the ergonomics - not one of the tubers mentioned the bad ergonomics on its own...but here is a smallrig grip that i would strongly reccomend - its $$$ and didnt mention that additional cost
then the youtubers who didnt give their gut reaction, they all outted themselves as uncritical shills.
its all just very deceptive and predictable tbh. Some tubers are more guilty than others.
Everyone forgets the sigma fp😢 quirky but cool camera
honestly the closest competition! it also has the option for an EVF 😳
Personally if I'm using a camera for 'fun', full frame would be kind of overkill. The image quality isn't worth the tradeoff that comes with the lens sizes. This would've been perfect as a new micro four thirds GX rangefinder and I fully believe that micro four thirds would have at least been able to allow the camera to record for longer durations, removing one of the big compromises that this camera has.
thankfully you can take photos in a crop mode, so you could use any L (or TL mount) for APSC as well giving you much smaller lenses. I am actually looking at the older Elmarit-TL 18mm f2.8 with the S9. Could be fun
Great episode guys! The S9 looks like a really fun camera! As an owner of the S5II I think this will be a nice complimentary camera. It will be a great camera to throw on a gimbal, mount on a car, etc. Excited to play around with it and just have some fun!
For sure! And you’re the perfect audience for this camera IMO. A great B or C camera for those moments where it makes sense, but mostly, a great camera to take everywhere when you are out with friends and family that uses the same lenses and batteries as your S5
I will say, I really really miss not having an EVF. And like we said, we both think it’s a bit overpriced. $999 would be a bargain. $1299 is the better prince point to differentiate it from the S5 ii
Incredible to think how literally every camera company, every car company, every tech company in general has been doing the exact same thing for decades to promote their new releases, yet one guy doesn't get the invite and its all on Lumix. Bad taste in the mouth.
Exactly. Look at musicians.... they are all sponsored by companies. Like guitar players get paid by Gibson, Fender, etc. to play their instruments and they don't even disclose it! It's weird this one took off like this. I think it's just a mismatch of audiences. This camera isn't for the filmmaking crowd. It's for hipsters mostly lol
Exactly what I thought. Interesting that the person who didn't get invited is suddenly now unhappy with how camera manufacturers promote their products...sounds like sour grapes to me. Camera manufacturers and reviewers that aren't bankrolled by a publication or have a butt load cash exist in a symbiotic relationship. Apart from the product ambassadors that are also youtubers, all the people I follow for camera reviews are able to provide balanced reviews that demonstrate the pros and cons while maintaining their relationships with marketing and disclosing accordingly. insta360 asking reviews to not disclose sponsorships is one thing, but reviewers playing the game for timely access to new gear is perfectly acceptable. Y'all are good people and it sucks that someone tried to smear everyone else's reputation because they feel left out.
That is somewhat true. Content creators just have to be very transparent. Being sent to Japan and getting accommodations does of course impact your results. I am not in the position to make significant decisions but even I have to disclose every coffee I get because it may change the way I decide.
@@thomasa.243 which is why we have disclosed in every video.
@@GHPod sure. Unfortunately, not everyone does that. Even though you may be (depending on where you live) be legally required to do that.
Definitely wanting to upgrade my S5 for the IIX first, but the S9 seems like a fun daily around town vlogger/street photographer cam! That green is so sick.
I think it’s easy for us to think cameras are only for us “professionals” (whatever that even means) when there are so many other niche markets that a camera like this is perfect for.
Also it’s kinda weird how this literally happened last year for the S5 II/X launch and I don’t remember seeing nearly any backlash like this, and yet this year there is? Maybe because people think the camera sucks this time around? Idk man. It’s weird. And I agree with the Sony thing too. Definitely a double standard. And studios provide free screenings for film critics all the time and no one bats an eye. It’s just part of the game.
Many in the camera space have proven to be as straight forward and honest as possible, we as the viewers should be more willing to extend grace.
You can't really compare the S5 II (X) to the S9. The former has absolutely everything (prolly except for a more modern sensor - no 4k60p crop etc.) one would need at that price point. The S9 is severely dumbed-down.
@@mostlyfinnishlifeeventsand5112 it's not dumbed down, it just serves a different purpose.
@@JpBoudreaux OK, for people that hoped for a "minimization" like the A IV -> A7C II one, it was certainly a disappointment.
@@mostlyfinnishlifeeventsand5112 well guess what? Those people need to get over themselves. Not every camera is made for every use case.
Thank you for this podcast! Great stuff! My S5II was of eBay for $1300 and had the RAW key activated already.
I would have bought this camera over the sony zv-e1 but the s9 wasn't out in 2023. My main need are ibis, nice straight out of camera color science, and small travel size camera.
Great video. Have a good one!
Cool that you guys are keeping this up occasionally and happy to hear your thoughts around this. There are many differences for sure, and I hear ya on the issues with Canon's upgrade path. But as of today on sale, you can get a brand new R8 and RF 28mm f2.8 for $1468. Probably not the best option for video-first shooters, but to some extent Canon is already playing on the periphery of this phenomenon with that combo. Clearly not as small or as "fun", but on the positive side you get Canon AF, some of the R6ii guts, and even though the middle is largely lacking there are the many small primes and F4 zooms. Would be cool if they come out with something smaller to compete more directly here.
Great content and discussion! I feel the camera community is way too spec-obsessed lately.. no offense to Gerald Undone but his style of soley technical reviews just feeds into the spec-obsession. Also, does he use cameras for anything other than reviewing other cameras and gear? Lol, i feel this has been addressed in the camera community before but i don't remember if it was ever answered.
Basically, the disappointment is pretty easy to understand: power users wanted something similar in size / weight to the A7C II while offering basically the same niceties the Sony has, apart from obvious stuff like the more advanced sensor . The S9 is a little bit (not much!) larger / heavier than the Sony and lacks some important stuff that the Sony does have (EVF + mech. shutter). The Sony's having a grip isn't that big a problem.
Ofc S9 has much more advanced video than the A7C II - the Sony for example severely lacks 6K Open Gate (the poor man's 8K). Too bad it doesn't have any way of shooting longer clips either; that's a big minus too for people that do want to shoot longer.
Finally, the price. It's (S9 body only) actually more (by 100eur) expensive in Europe (1799eur) now than the vastly superior S5 II. Now, if it was around 1000eur or was offered in a kit with, say, the 28-200 for, say, 1800eur...
Imma just get an s5
I’d recommend the S52 for the phase detect autofocus! But solid choice
What if they made an lx 100 iii with an apsc sensor with the new fangled tiktok features... seems like that would buy them some lost fujifilm market share... they already have everything that would make that an amazing camera
Link to the Ulanzi light?
Vlogging Light PICTRON VL28 LED... www.amazon.com/dp/B08P8JZZG8?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
what gear use at this podcast
What eye piece is that on the S9?
great video! blessings!
Thank you for being here! BLESSINGS
10:07 not hard to do 😭
LOL
your remark regarding the joystick rises a question. Why do you need a joystick if you're not using an EVF ? right hand on the trigger, left thumb on the touchscreen ... ?
I use single point autofocus all the time and am just used to having a joystick. Even without an EVF it would be nice.
I agree with @hanumanguy , it's the transparency and disclosures that are key. There are more than a few RUclipsr's who wasn't as good about disclosing the benefits that were given to be a reviewer. I like how Chris and Jordan did it with the S5II, they said they would return the cameras/lenses and buy it for themselves if they like it. I believe Gerald's video just brought more focus to it because of how he was treated by LUMIX JP vs LUMIX NA in his explanations. Jared Polin also got treated similarly by Fujifilm JP vs Fujifilm NA and that is why he hasn't touched a product from them in ages. Asian countries have a culture of saving face, so if a criticism is perceived as giving no face, then they will take offense to it. Also the way RUclipsr's handled the PR issue is part of their fault because they added fuel to the fire to fight the negativity with fire and it's definitely easy to fall into that trap but it's how it goes down even in customer service. The true culprit is LUMIX Marketing department on how the PR event was handled. This is a blatant marketing push without respect to consider how consumer sentiment would be around this. They flew high end camera content creator to push a product that is supposedly targeted to more entry to mid level TikToker's/IG/Social Media peeps. It's correct how David and Connor saying it doesn't speak to the audience of the RUclipsr's that were invited, so it's the fault of LUMIX Marketing not doing their homework, or it could be even calculated that they wanted high respected people in the industry to market their product to gain legitimacy. Also some of the titles to describe the S9 is clickbait and that is RUclips's algorithm issue. LUMIX also pricing their S9 to be near 1500 with exclusions in the product felt like they were rushing to market to get something out to capture market hype around the X100VI. S9 brings some neat ideas but this to me is like how Canon released the EOS M and M50 to show Canon could do mirrorless but canon crippled it beyond belief. LUMIX showing they can make a X100VI Full Frame competitor but it was rushed.
A brand has the worst camera and the worst lens in 2024 at the same time
Oh boy, I'm a plane Jane looking for a new camera and could not understand this whole drama for the life of me. Can you please be helpful, and answer this, since you actually used this camera: you say that with a few extra hundred dollars the S5 is a better option, but I'm not a professional, so does it produce better pictures? Like the image quality itself would be better? Because I also hear people say "it has the same hardware as S5", so it leaves me confused. I'm not looking at S5 because I already have a Sony professional camera with the bells and whistles, and I never take it with me when I go out, because it's too bulky. I'm looking for the tiniest camera with the best image quality, is the S9 a nice option? I thought so, because it's full frame, and I thought that means crisp and pretty photos. I will never use flash, I owned camera for 6 years and not once put EVF to my eye... Simply put, I want to take pictures for memories of things I do, and I want them to look as pretty as they can. A phone is lacking, so I started thinking of a small "good guts" camera. Again, the crispest on the go images in the smallest body - am I looking at the right direction? I tried to go on the linked Instagram, as one of you guys mentioned taking good pictures in Japan with this camera, but I didn't see any pictures posted...
S9 will sell crazily well at $$1,100-1,200 price point, or $1,300 with 28mm f2.8. No place for 26mm f8.
Other brands can make small FF, but none of them has the IBIS as good as Lumix, not even close.
Saying that it looks cool w/ an F8 manual focus plastic lens is pretty lame. Put a real lens on there, then you add the grip b/c it's uncomfortable, and now you have a a setup that's the same price as the current S5ii bundle but with some unpleasant side effects. What did you get by losing the headphone jack, EVF, mechanical shutter, etc? 200 grams. I don't think I've seen a single reviewer say why shaving off 200g was worth the banding, the lack of flash, the difficulty to focus in bright daylight, etc.
A nice surprise
Haha! Was fun to make one again! This camera and the controversy surrounding it certainly deserved a conversation!
@@GHPod yeah. I think they’re bringing that software for other cameras so the S5ii a no brainier especially when it’s on sale with a prime lens for free
A certain percentage of people feel gaslit by these companies, and it happens over and over and over. You have chosen to be the messenger. Be prepared for the backlash, or don't go. Is that fair? Probably not, but it is the reality.
how are we gaslighting when we’re simply telling you the truth about something? we happen to love cameras and technology. shared the positives and negatives. no lies are told. all disclaimers shared. don’t get the backlash
@@GHPod COMPANIES are gaslighting a percentage of users, you had a choice to do a video or not. Obviously you didn't recognize there may be blowback or you did not care. In either case YOU are the messenger. Congrats, you got to go to Japan, but you also get to field all the complaints, Panasonic DOES NOT. There is a a reason there is a phrase "don't kill the messenger"
@@GHPod Never said YOU were gaslighting.
I have an Atomos Ninja V not really doing it job recording. Could this be a good combo for the S9 when long form content is needed ?
Yes you can use the Ninja V as a solution to the recording limit, however you will need to get a dummy battery for the camera if you are doing very long takes where the battery would die. It can't be powered via USB-C. It can only charge it when the camera is off over USB-C
Could the Ninja V record higher bitrates than the internal bitrate?@@GHPod
26:26 What about the Canon R8? It is cheap and better in many ways, it also has 28 2.8 pancake option... 16 2.8... It has shutter, 4k 60p no crop, faster sensor. Yes it does not have LUTs but if this camera is targeted to beginner/not a nerd people what is more important?
It's a killer deal if you're into Canon! Doesn't have best in class IBIS, 6k open gate, vlog, shutter angle, waveforms etc.. and it is bigger. So if size, and the video features are more important, the S9 is a thing!
I understand the people who need those things is a niche and not a large group. The R8 will certainly sell more.
18-40 kit sounds like ZV1II :) 18-50
It’s weird to even be defending this product if you guys aren’t going to buy one. What’s the point? It’s literally got a reputation of being a dud and you come out to say well it’s not a dud, it’s just a little wierd. Oh! Ok, so YOU are the customer they made this for, right? Oh, no…you wouldn’t buy it either. I’m at a loss as to why it needs defending. So it’s only valuable to a special type of person listening to you that was given one for free *keep it it ain’t that bad* or if they got it as a loaner *hey that was pretty fun to use I guess*
it’s for people who can afford it! if connor and i were making enough money i think both he and i would be in the market for us. but if it were up to me at the moment with the amount of money i make (roughly $80,000 a year with a stay at home wife and three kids) it wouldn’t make sense to buy this.
I think you guys are giving too many passes for this camera. Its not a good photography camera because of read speeds and electronic shutter only. You will get banding and lots of other reviewers have shows issues at higher shutter speeds. Lack of weather sealing makes this a terrible travel camera. A little drizzle will not make you want to use this.
I wouldn't say "it's not good for photography" when I have taken a ton of great photos with it. It's not black and white. Also, need to verify, but I thought the camera actually was weather sealed. Need to follow up with Panasonic.
@@GHPod It won't let me post a link, but there is a lot of info on it not being weather sealed from big sites. There are also reviews from people like Petapixel that point out banding etc. I can also take great pictures with a Holga 120, but is it good?
49:40 this looks like an expensive setup to get worse image than most smartphones :D
The S9 is not useful or "fun" for me...A pair Sony A7c(1) plus an older A7s suffice for all my needs..I really wanted Panasonic to come out with a GX9 (11) and OM to. upgrade the old Pen F...But...But...No avail...I have recently dumped all of my M43 gear as I see no. future in it for skinny/lightweight (rangefinder) gear....Any way the Sony gear handles things quite well. Cheers
I would rather have to carry a handful of smaller batteries in exchange for a mechanical shutter. What difference does a big battery make if we cant even shoot for longer than 10/15 mins? Lmaooo am I wrong tho?? They literally made that decision, and cancelled out the mechanical shutter for the much larger battery size...? I honestly believe that that was the literal straw that finally broke the camels back decision. Would have also made all of the other strange choices/sacrifices that they made, that much easier to swallow
Why defend this mediocre product with its batshit insane pricing? The record limits alone are inexcusable. 20 min record limit for 1080p in 2024? For a 1500 dollar camera?
Batshit crazy.
Over the past 6 months, Lumix has stepped up their YT influencer game - BIG TIME! They are literally PAYING people to switch. The one that stands out the most is Lizzie Pierce. Her "I'm switching" video has over 150K views and she says herself that Lumix doesn't offer anything new - so why switch? Oh, I know, $$$$$$$!!
If one product is better than another or offers a superior user experience (Leica anyone?), that's fine. Sales will increase organically. There should be no need to pay someone to use it. So, when Lumix flies professional YT'ers halfway across the world on their dime to launch a crappy overpriced camera to generate more sales, and all you see are glowing reviews, real people call BS.
It's obvious that if you say something negative, you're out. Half the stuff I buy does not meet my expectations - and I let people know that. But I also let them know when something is great. It works both ways and builds trust. Let's be real, the S9 is just not good at that price point - and not one reviewer said it for fear of retribution. Even Connor's body language in THIS video looks like he is being held hostage.
What Lumix is doing is very different than the way Sony/Canon/Nikon operate. They are purposely trying to hide sponsorship like some other sketchy companies (looking at you Insta360) and people are sick of it. No one has any issue with people going on these press trips, but for love of all that is good in this world, please be authentic and if something sucks, tell us.
Love that the podcast is back - keep up the great work!!
Thanks for the detail take. I think you need to follow hard to know all this stuff. Most of us just watch casually. I didn't know about all the drama.
We said many times this camera is overpriced for what it is. But it’s legitimately fun to use if you can afford it. We mention at the end of this podcast neither one of us would buy this camera ourselves when the S5 ii is available and is so close in price. As for Lizzie or anyone else legitimately getting paid by LUMIX, I don’t know if that’s true for her but certainly many companies do this. Canon Ambassors, Sony Alpha shooters, Nikon I know pays people. This is common in many industries. Guitars for example, many big guitarist are sponsored by Gibson, Fender, etc. Then they even make a signature guitar with that artist. This is common.
It’s just important to remember we are just people doing our jobs to the best of our ability. I stand by everything I say in this podcast and for Connor, I know he does too.
This companies are getting slick about avoiding sponsorship disclosure..example....companies don't sponsor a specific video, but sponsor a channel for the entire year....long term loaner..things like that..the gray area is being played hard and the creators are playing right along...so what are we to do? Ignore the initial reviews.. wait a few weeks, find a channel with 200 subs that put their own money into it and see what they have to say.
Also they are going to have to do better than "Its a fun camera..trust me"
"The one that stands out the most is Lizzie Pierce. Her "I'm switching" video has over 150K views and she says herself that Lumix doesn't offer anything new - so why switch? Oh, I know, $$$$$$$!! "
Features are available but nothing new. But IBIS is better. Built in LUTs is better. Its cheaper. Open gate is old but better to have.