My brother sent his son to Hymers (a 'Public' school in Hull). He now plays rugby union... I'm sometimes ashamed of myself for being ashamed of him for playing the southern rich boys game, but it's still that way in the East Hull mindset.
How did you define 'professionalism'? Was that the amount of time dedicated to training, whether it was the sole job or was it based on being paid, just curious? Given that Rugby Union have been paying their players for over half a century at least (discretely of course) you could say that the RFU instigated professionalism far sooner than they would ever admit.
8 лет назад
And look at the trouble union went through in becoming 'professional' over night. I'm looking at things from an American point of view, but many decades ago, and for a number of decades before that, there were 'semi-pro' teams that basically paid players little for playing, many actually being 'company' teams, in various sports, particularly basketball. These teams were in the Amateur Athletic Union, by the way. Phillips 66 had one of the best basketball teams in the nation, an oil firm. They did beat some NBA teams at times. Unfortunately union took its amateurism way too seriously way back when. Semi-professionalism should have been allowed years ago. No one would have quit their day job. And that 'discrete' pay you refer to wasn't much. A few pounds stuck in boots before a match could hardly be called professionalism. In 1995 union should have designated only those on national squads as professionals, and paid them as such. Clubs and provincial sides should have had limits on them so that players could not become full pros, but semi-pros, unless picked for those international squads and games. I don't think professionalism in union has made the game any better.
@@ynotnilknarf39 What am I exactly triggered by? If you have evidence that makes it facts and not an opinion im all ears just send through the link showing that the RFU was paying players a wage.
I loved this from start to finish! Thanks for posting. What a different time it was (oranges for half time, coach leading the team in jogging on the spot!).
I remember watching Fred playing college rugby for Mt Albert Grammar in the early 70's and he good back then. The MAGS 1st XV in those years had All Blacks and Kiwis internationals like Joe Stanley, Bryan Williams, Fred Ah Koui, Lindsay Harris as well the Solomona brothers from Richmond. League was never ban from NZ schools as far as I'm concern and I was a PE teacher at Mt Roskil Grammar in Auckland for over 20 years(1972 to 1992). I even try to start up a league team but local clubs stop me.
Rugby is now the national sport of Madagascar and they get huge crowds to their club games and test matches. Good to see them playing the sport and hopefully they can qualify for the RWC. Some 932 Fijians, 1022 Samoan and 650 Tongans now playing professional and semi professional comps in Italy, Ireland, UK and France. There is many more on school scholarship in those countries. The biggest exports in Samoa, Tonga and Fiji are the rugby players and the money they sent back home.
The Ah Koui's are Samoan. The majority of NZ rugby union players at junior level play for their schools from 5 years old to 19 years old in their primary, intermediate and high schools years and then club rugby after that. SBW, Jonah Lomu, Tana Umaga and many league players in the NRL took this route. I played for Ponsonby and Waitemata in Auckland.
"No payments of players during amateur eras..." In the late 80s early 90s I worked with someone who played Rugby Union and I played Amateur Rugby League both of us at a comparable level, even though we both had to travel a similar distance to play he got paid 'travel expenses' I didn't. Who was the true amateur?
Plus, they played a whole lot of matches for their clubs during their careers. Example: Jim Sullivan made 774 appearances form Wigan during his career and Aussie born Brian Bevan made 695 appearances for Warrington during his time their. Back then, players weren't full time professionals like today. They work in jobs and had to practice later on in the evenings. There should be a whole of stories of British rugby league back in those days including Nan Halafihi and Neil Fox.
Although rucking is a far more controlled thing now...seems league and even american football saw that the breakdown in early union was just broken and play needed to restart clean. Hence play the ball or the snap
Yes thats true, most Aussies back then hated Union because it held its noses high whenever a working class man was present and that was about %99 of them. I liked Union for a time when the great Mark Ella played with his brothers, they played Union like Papuans play Rugby League only more brilliantly I have never seen a player in Union since that is remotely as good as Ella was, at the same time another Ella (Steve) was ruling the game of Rugby league. The Ella's played the game as it was meant.
I was playing junior for Mt Albert, Richmond and City Newton then. My cousin Andrew, Afi and Fred Ah Koui were playing premiers for Richmond Rovers then.
gabbax2hey77 used to play for a Auckland club called Northcote back in the late 70s and early 80s. He played for the club as a child and moved up the ranks. He should remember all the Kiwis stars he played against in League back then such as Fred Ah Koui.
when i was playing northcote juniors wasn't that strong at the time, it was mainly clubs like otahuhu, mt albert, richmond, mangere east and posonby. northcote have come a long way and now its the one of the most successful story of auckland rugby league along with hibiscuits coast.
Rugby is New Zealand was always a running game back in the days and that's why the All Blacks were the best in the world for 80years.The national provincial championship, School rugby & Ranfurly shields games were some of the best rugby union games I have seen in my life ever even to this day just as some of the old league games are better than this inter change touch game they have now in the NRL.The Ranfurly shield game between Auckland & Canterbury in 1985 is still the best game of rugby ever
Northcote Tigers won a few titles in the late 80's and early 90's with the dreadlocks Fue brothers(twins) leading from the front. I played curtain raiser to a few of those finals with my school league team. My one season or a few games of League at senior level was also against Northcote Tigers. Up the Richmond Bulldogs.
I've seen that film many times it was shown on channel one in New Zealand back in the days after that tour. One of the All Black's yell out something like "i'm in love with the girl next door, smell my fingers" It was a rugby drinking song in NZ back then and still used by my club to this day. League is strong in South Auckland but even there rugby union is way bigger. Auckland in rugby league terms is North Harbour, Counties Manukau, part of Northland & Waikato provinces in rugby union terms.
I don't really have anything against Union and League, but it is these Union trolls I can't stand. Stevo was refused service in a pub somewhere in either Swansea of Cardiff because the landlord recognized him as a RL player. David Watkins was kicked out of Cardiff Arms Park after they found out he was an ex-RL player. Watkins was about to commentate a 5 Nations game. Pitiful dirty work by RU back then.
Probably. The size of the ball is about the same in terms of volume. The rounder Union ball would prove less suitable for carrying with one hand and the league ball less suited to kicking. The League team would notice any difference first simply because of the amount of passing moves that occur. It would register less in the Union game because of the lack of running and passing. But on the whole there would be no problems as such.
I'm Samoan just like my cousins. We don't whine because we excepted that rugby union is our national sport. We also excepted tat the media focus is always on rugby union just as the media focus in the UK is on football. Its the way it is in all countries.
Yes, I may have I had a few friends who ended up at Northcote after this period. Junior League in Auckland was very strong in the 80's when I was playing both codes at junior level. This is the reason why League wasn't in many schools in Auckland at the time because local league clubs had a strong solid junior comp while rugby union had the schools. Now that league has gone into some schools the local junior comp is suffering big time because the league kids now play both codes for the schools.
League is a minority sport in New Zealand. The Kiwis side had mostly Auckland players on their squad before the Warriors came. Those players came from the Auckland Rugby League competition. Back then, players played both codes. The ARL didn't even allowed rugby league in schools, just clubs like Richmond, Northcote, Marist, etc.
The majority of over 5 million rugby players around the world are working class including Wales, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Tahiti, American Samoa, Tokelau, Vanuatu, Cook Islands, New Zealand, South Africa, Niue and Madagascar where rugby is the national sport. There was no payments of players in rugby during amateur eras but some players were often employed by members and sponsors of the clubs or though local councils. Only rugby league fans will tell you a different story.
League balls usually contain less panels than union and be a bit more pointed, and union balls rounder. Unions is designed to kick and leagues to be passed and less predictable on the bounce. There is always periods of development and change.
Most Pro D2 clubs have bigger budget than some NRL clubs and all the superleague clubs. A few of my nephews and friends play in the Pro D2 in France and are earning good money. The Six Nations has been great this year and I'm sure France will bounce back next season.The Europen Nations Cup is also a RWC qualifying with the top two nations automatically get in. Madagascar last year got almost 40,000 crowds to its RWC qualyfying games at the capital.
Virtually no difference that would require any difficult adaptation, except for the penalty taker who would find the flight characteristic of an 4 panel ball different from a 8 panel one.
I wonder if there is or will ever be a documentary or drama that seriously examines the split and publicises the Unions methods and motivations in stemming the "virus" of Rugby League in Britain and France. If for no other reason but to inform Union types of the reality of their game.
Hey bro, since you're Fijian there's an article about those guys from the island you told me about several months ago who play for Rochdale Hornets back in the 60's. It is called "World Cup romance comes to Rochdale with a dash of Fiji offered in the Pennines". Check it out. Interesting article.
The Warriors have tens of thousands of fans in New Zealand and if they ever win the NRL the kiwis will go ballistic. As I said earlier if the was no rugby league then no country would beat Austrlia in any rugby but the old union will only get viewers on tv when the Wallabies consistently prove that they are at very best, 2nd rate and the way they are going they will be 3rd or 4th rate while in Rugby League Australia keeps on perfecting the game and always raising the standard on a yearly basis.
campese became a good businessman after his rugby career. he was playing off-season in italy but in australia and nz the game was amateur that i even saw a couple of all blacks in auckland working 9 to 5 jobs. players come and go in nz in both codes.
The premiership have come a long way from 1987 when it was watched by a man and its dog but look at it now. Who would have thought Leicester Tigers will be the biggest rugby club in the UK from a small base club?
League was only really professional in the late 1980's, starting with Wigan. Most teams into the mid 1990's fielded semi pro players. Rugby Union has never been amateur at a high level. The have Shamateurism which is receiving payment for involvement with rugby. David Campese Australian RU ace became a millionaire in 1991 from union some 5 years before it started to pay tax.
The whole of NZ is rugby union stronghold. The best athletes in NZ are in rugby union and you just have to check out school rugby on sky tv. they get more tv ratings than NRL games.
Yeah, I think because you met a lot of rugby union people who hated league back in your playing days. I know back then, players played both codes at tha same time. It just like orthern Englishmen hated union with a passion and most Aussies RL fans hated RU with a passion.
Rugby league in France is a localised sport where some areas in the south are solid heartlands for league, once, back in the 50's league was going very very well in France and they even ruled the internationals and beat Australia often which just goes to show that the French standard was very high as the Aussies have always been very good at league (but between 1908 and 1970 England was usually superior), the poms had some of the hardest men to ever live in those teams, monsters tbh
Yes and other squads such as Italy are doing the same too selecting players of Italian descent. Both rugby codes are minor sports here in America and always will be.
rugby was already strong in the whole of nz because of the 1905 all blacks tours and then the 1924 invincible team. there was nothing any other sports could have done.
I dont know what your trying to say here but rugby league is a minor sport in NZ and still is today that 80% of the population back then wouldn't have seen or heard of the game because its not played in many provinces. NZRU wouldn't gives a rat about some sport that was run down to the ground by its own members and was nearly bankrupt that the NZ government step in and took over just four years ago. NZRU has the biggest and second biggest sponsorship deal in both sports.
That isn't true there were many rugby league players who were also playing rugby union and rugby union players playing league for over 100 years at amateur level. Like I said don't believe everything you hear go to totalrugbyleague forum and asked the guys on there and they will be more than happy to tell you that. You got to remember that league had a very little presence or nothing at all in other parts of England.
I think you met with a lot of rugby union people that hated league during your playing career for Northcote. You're in the USA now having telling people your stories about your career at Northcote. You're right about Carlaw Park being a different socially-economically-racially than Eden Park. Mt.Smart Stadium the same way too if you watch the Warriors game.
Correction: it is actually 1, 336 registered rugby league players here in America. There Both codes of rugby are minority sport here in America. I think there was a problem on why the two league split here in America.
Check out Carlaw Park Die Hards on Facebook. It gives some memories back in the days of Auckland rugby league in Carlaw Park. Pretty interesting stories you never heard of.
Both sports were tough back in the days but with this age and time violence is not tolerate or be encourage in football so we have to cater for the players and advertise the sports so kids and their parents can appreciate it. The best commentators for me is Bill McLaren for rugby union and Graeme Hughes for league.
I would perfer soccer too over Union. The only two times the AB won the World Cup was in NZ. Union is not a fun game to watch because of too many stoppages and it would take about two or three days to finish watching a whole match. Rugby League has a lot of history in Auckland and I know some players on here who played for clubs in the competition back then. One player played for Northcote back in the late 70s and early 80s dealt with a lot of RU people who really hated league with a passion
All union trolls want to say is that there sport is more popular than league in whatever country. Nobody cares about popularity. I find union mostly boring and penalty fest. I haven't watched a full game of union in a while. Soccer fans would perfer league to watch than union coz the game is fast paced, intense, and tougher than rugby union. American football would perfer league too over union. The State of Origin was intense this year and every tackle was fierce. The skills were pure.
RBS renews Six Nations rugby sponsorship ReutersJanuary 18, 2013 12:15 LONDON, Jan 18 (Reuters) - Royal Bank of Scotland has extended its sponsorship of the Six Nations rugby union tournament until 2017, deciding that the partnership represented good value for the part state-owned British bank. The new four-year deal is worth around 43 million pounds ($68.7 million) and runs from 2014, an increase from the current figure of around 30 million.
There are not that many teams in rugby league in the USA in both comps and both comps often struggles for numbers and sometime teams are force to forfeit games or play nine a side. The current USA rugby league team selected for this years rugby league world cup are made up of Australian NRL, QLD & NSW Cup, park footy players as well as a couple USA Eagles & American Samoan rugby union 7's players and a few local RL players.
Carlaw Park was a great ground to play on. ARL shouldn't have sold it.Yeah, each to their own I suppose coming from the North Shore area your ll get that from those posh boys from Westlake & Rosmini College but in some towns in South and West Auckland you have some rugby league people hating on rugby union but lucky all Kiwis get along. A crowd in rugby union games in Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Poverty Bay, Horowhenua, King Country, Hawkes Bay & many other provinces wont be any different to league.
There has always been payment of Union players either money or in kind. And Rugby Union greats like David Campese and Jonathan Davies tell a different story to the accepted mythology clung on to supporters of the schoolboy code.Mostly because Union types are more ignorant of their own code than anyone.
ARL is more popalur in OZ. League is more popalur then ARL but rugby Union is more popalur then League and ARL. ARL just got 22 countries that play it. League got 38 countries that play it. Rugby Union got 115 countries that play it. Union got more schools that play it
That's about right I had a very hart time with local rugby league clubs in my area when I try to start up a rugby league team at my school. They said that the kids belong to their league clubs not to the schools, they even made threats to the students that they won't be allowed to play on sundays. and some were ban from playing in finals. Auckland rugby league sided with the clubs and that was that. Union and league are totally different games back then compare to this robotic sh&*% we have now.
Maybe because in Australia union is 3rd rate and therefore the All Blacks can never lose to Australia, that is all a kiwi needs for encouragement. The two codes have grown a long way apart and there is now no future possibility of the games merging now, simply no way on earth the average Australian will ever accept 15 players a side, nor will they accept 3 points for a stupid goalkick, we want our play the balls, our ten metre rule or to see kick fests, no line outs needed because its perfect.
My name is Da Underground Mane and I've spoken to all 6 million rugby union players in the world and millions and millions of rugby union fans and they all said to me in my dream that they don't care about the code being big in the world. American will be like all Kiwis and UK when they see rugby league they will take league over union. Oh wait that's not right HAHAHA. Da Undaground Mane is now a rugby league historian and what I say is always right. League will overtake union in NZ and UK soon.
No one was paid on tours maybe you need to read some books from former Welsh, English and British Lions players who said all they got was a tie, jersey and cap for their efforts.
New Zealand has a different Rugby and League history to Australia, in Australia Union was the preserve mostly of upper class and the universities although Sydney University had a team in the big Rugby league premiership for a couple of decades but they were embarrasing at the game and are the worst club in the games history, losing was what they did best. Australia has always had a problem with upper class attitudes, it is the major part of our phsych. The two codes have been at war since 1908..
I don't know about that to be honest. Rugby league isn't played in many parts of NZ at all and not many kids or adults played league at all it was just rugby union. You have some that played both but the vast majority of Kiwi's just played union on saturday (schools) and clubs on sunday's. I didn't see much anti league stuff from hardcore union fans in Auckland because most of Auckland union fans and players are working class as well and often get along.
It is growing as a minority sport. There are over 450,000 registered rugby union players here in America and only 10,000 for league coz it is mostly played in the northern part of the country. I don't hate rugby union nor league. I'm not interested in the AFL. The rugby codes still has little coverage on TV. The darker side I see in union was back in the amateur era, the code banned its players for switching to rugby league or negotiating with them.
No, it wasn't like that at all mate. you get some guys in both codes talking trash to each others but the majority of rugby and league players were usually good and don't bother with that at all. We don't have cross codes rivalries like you get in Australia. The majority of rugby union players in NZ are from working class families as well as a large numbers of Maori's and Pacific Islanders.
The majority of U players over the world are working class especially in NZ and Wales where U is the national sport. Rugby Unions amateurism was the biggest joke in world sport. A lot of money was earned in u through Rugby related cash ins such as business dealings using the rugby as a backdrop.
Rugby union was struggling in New Zealand until the 2011 World Cup. Participation is on the rise for league in New Zealand. Even though the sport is not played in many parts of the country and it's stronghold is Auckland, oh yes the Warriors have tons of fans in Auckland. The older fans of the Warriors came from the clubs that they supported back in the ARL (Auckland Rugby League) days. Rugby league is pretty strong in Auckland. I don't know about Union though.
Both sports are working class sports but rugby union is spread across New Zealand where as league is only played in a few provinces. There's a very small numbers of union or league people who are anti league or anti union in NZ but you get that in many countries in all sports. I don't judge a sport just because workmates or patrons at my local pub hate a particular sport there are over four million people in NZ and the majority of them just don't find rugby league that attractive to union.
He earned his millions from Rugby Union the so called amateur game at a time Rugby League players could not play Rugby Union because they got paid in Rugby league. Pretty basic hypocrisy from a game that reversed it's core beliefs in 1995.
I rate rugby union and football more exciting to watch than rugby league. I find a boring game of union is more exciting than a good game of rugby league but that's my opinion and there are many Kiwi's who feel this way. You can't denying that rugby is a growing sport in American even if its a small minority sport but it is growing which is all you can ask for in a sport.
SlowRock1000 spammed the comment that gabbax2hey77 made. He used to live in NZ and played league for Northcote back in the late 70s and early 80s in senior level. He started off as a junior level player when he was 9 for the same club. He just dealt with a lot of Kiwis that hated RL with a passion back then. I also can't stand SlowRock1000 telling me bullshit. He don't know a damn truth. Nobody don't give a fuck about how much money RU make.
I don't have a problem with rugby union. No, rugby will still be a minority sport here in America once the Olympic 7s get off the ground. Both codes of rugby are so small here just like field hockey, Gaelic sports, and Aussie rules. The rugby codes will never be no bigger than soccer here. They will always be minority sports and always will be. No matter what you say.
agree, the problem with the minority sports you mentioned is that they don't cater for tv, with virtually 40 minutes continuous play, baseball nfl nba and hockey all have several stoppages for advertisments
There are not 10,000 rugby league players in the USA. Now your the one lying. There are only about five teams in the AMNRL and six in the USARL and that is all there is so more like under 150 players.
League has had over 100 years head start over union in been professional sport and it didn't take rugby union long to overtake rugby league in that department when they switch fully pro in 1995. Rugby league must be taking over American Football in the USA because its slower and soccer around the world because rugby league fans said so. Wake up to yourself and stop making our game look stupid.
The world? Oh you meant the world or rugby union and rugby league? Sorry again for not reading your post probably. Again I'm gonna use soccer even though you didn't mention i'm Da Undaground mane and I can use soccer because rugby league is small to rugby union. Rugby union is bigger than my sport of rugby league so again I'm gonna use soccer and say its bigger in France, South Africa and UK plus the world. Here in America I can use soccer again because rugby union is bigger than my sport of RL.
Why is soccer always mention when the subject is about rugby league and rugby union. I'm a rugby league fan but I won't be putting down rugby union international present compare to our sport that's a bit of a pipe dream there mate.
The greatest rugby documentary of all time...the featherstone coach a true hero....what a man....
My brother sent his son to Hymers (a 'Public' school in Hull). He now plays rugby union... I'm sometimes ashamed of myself for being ashamed of him for playing the southern rich boys game, but it's still that way in the East Hull mindset.
Fantastic documentary. An insight into a game and a country that has long since moved on.
Thanks for uploading this. Great documentary.
I'm doing a research report examining the pathway of rugby union to professionalism and came across this documentary, It's fantastic! So genuine
How did you define 'professionalism'? Was that the amount of time dedicated to training, whether it was the sole job or was it based on being paid, just curious? Given that Rugby Union have been paying their players for over half a century at least (discretely of course) you could say that the RFU instigated professionalism far sooner than they would ever admit.
And look at the trouble union went through in becoming 'professional' over night. I'm looking at things from an American point of view, but many decades ago, and for a number of decades before that, there were 'semi-pro' teams that basically paid players little for playing, many actually being 'company' teams, in various sports, particularly basketball. These teams were in the Amateur Athletic Union, by the way. Phillips 66 had one of the best basketball teams in the nation, an oil firm. They did beat some NBA teams at times.
Unfortunately union took its amateurism way too seriously way back when. Semi-professionalism should have been allowed years ago. No one would have quit their day job. And that 'discrete' pay you refer to wasn't much. A few pounds stuck in boots before a match could hardly be called professionalism. In 1995 union should have designated only those on national squads as professionals, and paid them as such. Clubs and provincial sides should have had limits on them so that players could not become full pros, but semi-pros, unless picked for those international squads and games. I don't think professionalism in union has made the game any better.
@@ynotnilknarf39 Why do league fans have this obsession with making up an assumption that union players were paid? ahhaahahh
@@gus-qj2mp Why do some people get triggered when facts are exposed? What is it that you fear, shame or something else?
@@ynotnilknarf39 What am I exactly triggered by? If you have evidence that makes it facts and not an opinion im all ears just send through the link showing that the RFU was paying players a wage.
I loved this from start to finish! Thanks for posting. What a different time it was (oranges for half time, coach leading the team in jogging on the spot!).
Nice work, Luke. A fascinating snapshot of league in the late Sixties. Great to see the late Keith Macklin as a relatively young man!
My father said to me 'if you go to watch Fev you'll see two queues. Join the short queue, the long one's for the chippie'.
Thanks for posting this - great snapshot of northern life in the late 60s
Fantastic video . Amazing !!!
Gorgeous documentary. Rugby league belongs to the north, it's OUR game, it is us.
A game for peasants.
10:35 "Always have a cigar when we win" Just imagine that being said now!
I remember watching Fred playing college rugby for Mt Albert Grammar in the early 70's and he good back then. The MAGS 1st XV in those years had All Blacks and Kiwis internationals like Joe Stanley, Bryan Williams, Fred Ah Koui, Lindsay Harris as well the Solomona brothers from Richmond. League was never ban from NZ schools as far as I'm concern and I was a PE teacher at Mt Roskil Grammar in Auckland for over 20 years(1972 to 1992). I even try to start up a league team but local clubs stop me.
Rugby is now the national sport of Madagascar and they get huge crowds to their club games and test matches. Good to see them playing the sport and hopefully they can qualify for the RWC. Some 932 Fijians, 1022 Samoan and 650 Tongans now playing professional and semi professional comps in Italy, Ireland, UK and France. There is many more on school scholarship in those countries. The biggest exports in Samoa, Tonga and Fiji are the rugby players and the money they sent back home.
Great documentary
The Ah Koui's are Samoan. The majority of NZ rugby union players at junior level play for their schools from 5 years old to 19 years old in their primary, intermediate and high schools years and then club rugby after that. SBW, Jonah Lomu, Tana Umaga and many league players in the NRL took this route. I played for Ponsonby and Waitemata in Auckland.
yeah no one gives a shit
"No payments of players during amateur eras..." In the late 80s early 90s I worked with someone who played Rugby Union and I played Amateur Rugby League both of us at a comparable level, even though we both had to travel a similar distance to play he got paid 'travel expenses' I didn't. Who was the true amateur?
my grandad played for the featherstone rovers, keith bell
Plus, they played a whole lot of matches for their clubs during their careers. Example: Jim Sullivan made 774 appearances form Wigan during his career and Aussie born Brian Bevan made 695 appearances for Warrington during his time their. Back then, players weren't full time professionals like today. They work in jobs and had to practice later on in the evenings. There should be a whole of stories of British rugby league back in those days including Nan Halafihi and Neil Fox.
Although rucking is a far more controlled thing now...seems league and even american football saw that the breakdown in early union was just broken and play needed to restart clean. Hence play the ball or the snap
Yes thats true, most Aussies back then hated Union because it held its noses high whenever a working class man was present and that was about %99 of them. I liked Union for a time when the great Mark Ella played with his brothers, they played Union like Papuans play Rugby League only more brilliantly I have never seen a player in Union since that is remotely as good as Ella was, at the same time another Ella (Steve) was ruling the game of Rugby league. The Ella's played the game as it was meant.
It was the best thing to ever happen to rugby in NZ when it went pro.
Can you imagine if the Welsh clubs joined us in 1895.
I was playing junior for Mt Albert, Richmond and City Newton then. My cousin Andrew, Afi and Fred Ah Koui were playing premiers for Richmond Rovers then.
Vaughan Thomas. Just done a paving job for him. In his 70s now
The class system will never die in Great Britain.No where else,just here.That will always be our problem.Jim.Liverpool.
gabbax2hey77 used to play for a Auckland club called Northcote back in the late 70s and early 80s. He played for the club as a child and moved up the ranks. He should remember all the Kiwis stars he played against in League back then such as Fred Ah Koui.
great doco
when i was playing northcote juniors wasn't that strong at the time, it was mainly clubs like otahuhu, mt albert, richmond, mangere east and posonby. northcote have come a long way and now its the one of the most successful story of auckland rugby league along with hibiscuits coast.
Proud to be a Featherstonian
Rugby is New Zealand was always a running game back in the days and that's why the All Blacks were the best in the world for 80years.The national provincial championship, School rugby & Ranfurly shields games were some of the best rugby union games I have seen in my life ever even to this day just as some of the old league games are better than this inter change touch game they have now in the NRL.The Ranfurly shield game between Auckland & Canterbury in 1985 is still the best game of rugby ever
Northcote Tigers won a few titles in the late 80's and early 90's with the dreadlocks Fue brothers(twins) leading from the front. I played curtain raiser to a few of those finals with my school league team. My one season or a few games of League at senior level was also against Northcote Tigers. Up the Richmond Bulldogs.
I've seen that film many times it was shown on channel one in New Zealand back in the days after that tour. One of the All Black's yell out something like "i'm in love with the girl next door, smell my fingers" It was a rugby drinking song in NZ back then and still used by my club to this day.
League is strong in South Auckland but even there rugby union is way bigger. Auckland in rugby league terms is North Harbour, Counties Manukau, part of Northland & Waikato provinces in rugby union terms.
I don't really have anything against Union and League, but it is these Union trolls I can't stand. Stevo was refused service in a pub somewhere in either Swansea of Cardiff because the landlord recognized him as a RL player. David Watkins was kicked out of Cardiff Arms Park after they found out he was an ex-RL player. Watkins was about to commentate a 5 Nations game. Pitiful dirty work by RU back then.
Probably. The size of the ball is about the same in terms of volume. The rounder Union ball would prove less suitable for carrying with one hand and the league ball less suited to kicking. The League team would notice any difference first simply because of the amount of passing moves that occur. It would register less in the Union game because of the lack of running and passing. But on the whole there would be no problems as such.
I'm Samoan just like my cousins. We don't whine because we excepted that rugby union is our national sport. We also excepted tat the media focus is always on rugby union just as the media focus in the UK is on football. Its the way it is in all countries.
Yes, I may have I had a few friends who ended up at Northcote after this period. Junior League in Auckland was very strong in the 80's when I was playing both codes at junior level. This is the reason why League wasn't in many schools in Auckland at the time because local league clubs had a strong solid junior comp while rugby union had the schools. Now that league has gone into some schools the local junior comp is suffering big time because the league kids now play both codes for the schools.
League is a minority sport in New Zealand. The Kiwis side had mostly Auckland players on their squad before the Warriors came. Those players came from the Auckland Rugby League competition. Back then, players played both codes. The ARL didn't even allowed rugby league in schools, just clubs like Richmond, Northcote, Marist, etc.
The majority of over 5 million rugby players around the world are working class including Wales, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Tahiti, American Samoa, Tokelau, Vanuatu, Cook Islands, New Zealand, South Africa, Niue and Madagascar where rugby is the national sport. There was no payments of players in rugby during amateur eras but some players were often employed by members and sponsors of the clubs or though local councils. Only rugby league fans will tell you a different story.
League balls usually contain less panels than union and be a bit more pointed, and union balls rounder. Unions is designed to kick and leagues to be passed and less predictable on the bounce. There is always periods of development and change.
Most Pro D2 clubs have bigger budget than some NRL clubs and all the superleague clubs. A few of my nephews and friends play in the Pro D2 in France and are earning good money.
The Six Nations has been great this year and I'm sure France will bounce back next season.The Europen Nations Cup is also a RWC qualifying with the top two nations automatically get in. Madagascar last year got almost 40,000 crowds to its RWC qualyfying games at the capital.
Virtually no difference that would require any difficult adaptation, except for the penalty taker who would find the flight characteristic of an 4 panel ball different from a 8 panel one.
Are you typing your comments on your cellphone?
How you find London and the Bay Area? Did you like London and San Francisco?
I wonder if there is or will ever be a documentary or drama that seriously examines the split and publicises the Unions methods and motivations in stemming the "virus" of Rugby League in Britain and France. If for no other reason but to inform Union types of the reality of their game.
Hey bro, since you're Fijian there's an article about those guys from the island you told me about several months ago who play for Rochdale Hornets back in the 60's. It is called "World Cup romance comes to Rochdale with a dash of Fiji offered in the Pennines". Check it out. Interesting article.
The Warriors have tens of thousands of fans in New Zealand and if they ever win the NRL the kiwis will go ballistic. As I said earlier if the was no rugby league then no country would beat Austrlia in any rugby but the old union will only get viewers on tv when the Wallabies consistently prove that they are at very best, 2nd rate and the way they are going they will be 3rd or 4th rate while in Rugby League Australia keeps on perfecting the game and always raising the standard on a yearly basis.
campese became a good businessman after his rugby career. he was playing off-season in italy but in australia and nz the game was amateur that i even saw a couple of all blacks in auckland working 9 to 5 jobs. players come and go in nz in both codes.
I can't be the only one that hears similarities in Kenneth Branagh's voice and the narrator of this documentary.
The premiership have come a long way from 1987 when it was watched by a man and its dog but look at it now. Who would have thought Leicester Tigers will be the biggest rugby club in the UK from a small base club?
Both codes are strong in Auckland I just found out
League was only really professional in the late 1980's, starting with Wigan. Most teams into the mid 1990's fielded semi pro players. Rugby Union has never been amateur at a high level. The have Shamateurism which is receiving payment for involvement with rugby. David Campese Australian RU ace became a millionaire in 1991 from union some 5 years before it started to pay tax.
The whole of NZ is rugby union stronghold. The best athletes in NZ are in rugby union and you just have to check out school rugby on sky tv. they get more tv ratings than NRL games.
Yeah, I think because you met a lot of rugby union people who hated league back in your playing days. I know back then, players played both codes at tha same time. It just like orthern Englishmen hated union with a passion and most Aussies RL fans hated RU with a passion.
Rugby league in France is a localised sport where some areas in the south are solid heartlands for league, once, back in the 50's league was going very very well in France and they even ruled the internationals and beat Australia often which just goes to show that the French standard was very high as the Aussies have always been very good at league (but between 1908 and 1970 England was usually superior), the poms had some of the hardest men to ever live in those teams, monsters tbh
Yes. Puig Aubert is arguably one of the greatest league players of all time and no doubt the best French player of all time.
Yes and other squads such as Italy are doing the same too selecting players of Italian descent. Both rugby codes are minor sports here in America and always will be.
rugby was already strong in the whole of nz because of the 1905 all blacks tours and then the 1924 invincible team. there was nothing any other sports could have done.
I dont know what your trying to say here but rugby league is a minor sport in NZ and still is today that 80% of the population back then wouldn't have seen or heard of the game because its not played in many provinces. NZRU wouldn't gives a rat about some sport that was run down to the ground by its own members and was nearly bankrupt that the NZ government step in and took over just four years ago. NZRU has the biggest and second biggest sponsorship deal in both sports.
That isn't true there were many rugby league players who were also playing rugby union and rugby union players playing league for over 100 years at amateur level. Like I said don't believe everything you hear go to totalrugbyleague forum and asked the guys on there and they will be more than happy to tell you that. You got to remember that league had a very little presence or nothing at all in other parts of England.
I think you met with a lot of rugby union people that hated league during your playing career for Northcote. You're in the USA now having telling people your stories about your career at Northcote. You're right about Carlaw Park being a different socially-economically-racially than Eden Park. Mt.Smart Stadium the same way too if you watch the Warriors game.
Yeah I know. I went The USA and Canada to host it not Argentina but its up to the CEO of IRB
Correction: it is actually 1, 336 registered rugby league players here in America. There Both codes of rugby are minority sport here in America. I think there was a problem on why the two league split here in America.
thats now a lot different because union actually promote the game internationally.....
Check out Carlaw Park Die Hards on Facebook. It gives some memories back in the days of Auckland rugby league in Carlaw Park. Pretty interesting stories you never heard of.
It’s good to see that Rugby League now *is* a woman’s sport also.
Both sports were tough back in the days but with this age and time violence is not tolerate or be encourage in football so we have to cater for the players and advertise the sports so kids and their parents can appreciate it. The best commentators for me is Bill McLaren for rugby union and Graeme Hughes for league.
I would perfer soccer too over Union. The only two times the AB won the World Cup was in NZ. Union is not a fun game to watch because of too many stoppages and it would take about two or three days to finish watching a whole match. Rugby League has a lot of history in Auckland and I know some players on here who played for clubs in the competition back then. One player played for Northcote back in the late 70s and early 80s dealt with a lot of RU people who really hated league with a passion
All union trolls want to say is that there sport is more popular than league in whatever country. Nobody cares about popularity. I find union mostly boring and penalty fest. I haven't watched a full game of union in a while. Soccer fans would perfer league to watch than union coz the game is fast paced, intense, and tougher than rugby union. American football would perfer league too over union. The State of Origin was intense this year and every tackle was fierce. The skills were pure.
Rugby has done itself no favours over the last 100 or so years, its a tragedy?
RBS renews Six Nations rugby sponsorship
ReutersJanuary 18, 2013 12:15
LONDON, Jan 18 (Reuters) - Royal Bank of Scotland has extended its sponsorship of the Six Nations rugby union tournament until 2017, deciding that the partnership represented good value for the part state-owned British bank.
The new four-year deal is worth around 43 million pounds ($68.7 million) and runs from 2014, an increase from the current figure of around 30 million.
There are not that many teams in rugby league in the USA in both comps and both comps often struggles for numbers and sometime teams are force to forfeit games or play nine a side. The current USA rugby league team selected for this years rugby league world cup are made up of Australian NRL, QLD & NSW Cup, park footy players as well as a couple USA Eagles & American Samoan rugby union 7's players and a few local RL players.
Carlaw Park was a great ground to play on. ARL shouldn't have sold it.Yeah, each to their own I suppose coming from the North Shore area your ll get that from those posh boys from Westlake & Rosmini College but in some towns in South and West Auckland you have some rugby league people hating on rugby union but lucky all Kiwis get along. A crowd in rugby union games in Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Poverty Bay, Horowhenua, King Country, Hawkes Bay & many other provinces wont be any different to league.
There has always been payment of Union players either money or in kind. And Rugby Union greats like David Campese and Jonathan Davies tell a different story to the accepted mythology clung on to supporters of the schoolboy code.Mostly because Union types are more ignorant of their own code than anyone.
no no no, Auckland Rugby League is what I'm talking about not Australian Rugby League
ARL is more popalur in OZ. League is more popalur then ARL but rugby Union is more popalur then League and ARL. ARL just got 22 countries that play it. League got 38 countries that play it. Rugby Union got 115 countries that play it. Union got more schools that play it
That's about right I had a very hart time with local rugby league clubs in my area when I try to start up a rugby league team at my school. They said that the kids belong to their league clubs not to the schools, they even made threats to the students that they won't be allowed to play on sundays. and some were ban from playing in finals. Auckland rugby league sided with the clubs and that was that. Union and league are totally different games back then compare to this robotic sh&*% we have now.
Maybe because in Australia union is 3rd rate and therefore the All Blacks can never lose to Australia, that is all a kiwi needs for encouragement. The two codes have grown a long way apart and there is now no future possibility of the games merging now, simply no way on earth the average Australian will ever accept 15 players a side, nor will they accept 3 points for a stupid goalkick, we want our play the balls, our ten metre rule or to see kick fests, no line outs needed because its perfect.
My name is Da Underground Mane and I've spoken to all 6 million rugby union players in the world and millions and millions of rugby union fans and they all said to me in my dream that they don't care about the code being big in the world. American will be like all Kiwis and UK when they see rugby league they will take league over union. Oh wait that's not right HAHAHA. Da Undaground Mane is now a rugby league historian and what I say is always right. League will overtake union in NZ and UK soon.
No one was paid on tours maybe you need to read some books from former Welsh, English and British Lions players who said all they got was a tie, jersey and cap for their efforts.
New Zealand has a different Rugby and League history to Australia, in Australia Union was the preserve mostly of upper class and the universities although Sydney University had a team in the big Rugby league premiership for a couple of decades but they were embarrasing at the game and are the worst club in the games history, losing was what they did best. Australia has always had a problem with upper class attitudes, it is the major part of our phsych. The two codes have been at war since 1908..
I don't know about that to be honest. Rugby league isn't played in many parts of NZ at all and not many kids or adults played league at all it was just rugby union. You have some that played both but the vast majority of Kiwi's just played union on saturday (schools) and clubs on sunday's. I didn't see much anti league stuff from hardcore union fans in Auckland because most of Auckland union fans and players are working class as well and often get along.
It is growing as a minority sport. There are over 450,000 registered rugby union players here in America and only 10,000 for league coz it is mostly played in the northern part of the country. I don't hate rugby union nor league. I'm not interested in the AFL. The rugby codes still has little coverage on TV. The darker side I see in union was back in the amateur era, the code banned its players for switching to rugby league or negotiating with them.
No, it wasn't like that at all mate. you get some guys in both codes talking trash to each others but the majority of rugby and league players were usually good and don't bother with that at all. We don't have cross codes rivalries like you get in Australia. The majority of rugby union players in NZ are from working class families as well as a large numbers of Maori's and Pacific Islanders.
The majority of U players over the world are working class especially in NZ and Wales where U is the national sport. Rugby Unions amateurism was the biggest joke in world sport. A lot of money was earned in u through Rugby related cash ins such as business dealings using the rugby as a backdrop.
I don't know about the UK but i do know that League will not overtake union in NZ. Union is just to big in NZ
Rugby union was struggling in New Zealand until the 2011 World Cup. Participation is on the rise for league in New Zealand. Even though the sport is not played in many parts of the country and it's stronghold is Auckland, oh yes the Warriors have tons of fans in Auckland. The older fans of the Warriors came from the clubs that they supported back in the ARL (Auckland Rugby League) days. Rugby league is pretty strong in Auckland. I don't know about Union though.
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Crickey you been drinking?
Both sports are working class sports but rugby union is spread across New Zealand where as league is only played in a few provinces. There's a very small numbers of union or league people who are anti league or anti union in NZ but you get that in many countries in all sports. I don't judge a sport just because workmates or patrons at my local pub hate a particular sport there are over four million people in NZ and the majority of them just don't find rugby league that attractive to union.
Rugby Union is more popalur in NZ tham League
He earned his millions from Rugby Union the so called amateur game at a time Rugby League players could not play Rugby Union because they got paid in Rugby league. Pretty basic hypocrisy from a game that reversed it's core beliefs in 1995.
I rate rugby union and football more exciting to watch than rugby league. I find a boring game of union is more exciting than a good game of rugby league but that's my opinion and there are many Kiwi's who feel this way. You can't denying that rugby is a growing sport in American even if its a small minority sport but it is growing which is all you can ask for in a sport.
When was that? Its a common excuses for rugbyleague fans to make. I played rugby league for richmonds.
SlowRock1000 spammed the comment that gabbax2hey77 made. He used to live in NZ and played league for Northcote back in the late 70s and early 80s in senior level. He started off as a junior level player when he was 9 for the same club. He just dealt with a lot of Kiwis that hated RL with a passion back then. I also can't stand SlowRock1000 telling me bullshit. He don't know a damn truth. Nobody don't give a fuck about how much money RU make.
I don't have a problem with rugby union. No, rugby will still be a minority sport here in America once the Olympic 7s get off the ground. Both codes of rugby are so small here just like field hockey, Gaelic sports, and Aussie rules. The rugby codes will never be no bigger than soccer here. They will always be minority sports and always will be. No matter what you say.
agree, the problem with the minority sports you mentioned is that they don't cater for tv, with virtually 40 minutes continuous play, baseball nfl nba and hockey all have several stoppages for advertisments
There are not 10,000 rugby league players in the USA. Now your the one lying. There are only about five teams in the AMNRL and six in the USARL and that is all there is so more like under 150 players.
League has had over 100 years head start over union in been professional sport and it didn't take rugby union long to overtake rugby league in that department when they switch fully pro in 1995. Rugby league must be taking over American Football in the USA because its slower and soccer around the world because rugby league fans said so. Wake up to yourself and stop making our game look stupid.
League is a minority sport in France and New Zealand.
Oh yeah do you know that the CEO of Football world cup is helping Argentina to get The 2023 Rugby World Cup did you know that?
The world? Oh you meant the world or rugby union and rugby league? Sorry again for not reading your post probably. Again I'm gonna use soccer even though you didn't mention i'm Da Undaground mane and I can use soccer because rugby league is small to rugby union. Rugby union is bigger than my sport of rugby league so again I'm gonna use soccer and say its bigger in France, South Africa and UK plus the world. Here in America I can use soccer again because rugby union is bigger than my sport of RL.
Why is soccer always mention when the subject is about rugby league and rugby union. I'm a rugby league fan but I won't be putting down rugby union international present compare to our sport that's a bit of a pipe dream there mate.
Sitting on the sideline when your 6 years old. These blokes were giants. ruclips.net/video/qZVMLc11J1Q/видео.html
no, but that will not happen. The USA and Canada will host the Rugby Union World Cup.