FOCUS FIRE is the THE MOST POWERFUL Anti-Large! - Total War Tactics: Warhammer 3
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- A new Total War Tactic for Warhammer 3! Focus Fire is a classic tactic with immense power. Here's why! A noob's guide to battlefield tactics!
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DE Darkshards in WHII taught me this. My jaw hit the floor when I saw how quickly they could delete something like Kholek or a Stegadon. A positively arousing sight. Slaanesh was pleased
God I can't wait for my dark elves to be back really not getting in to game 3. 😩
Almost all DE are armor piercing as well, that definitely goes a long way
DE do not worship or allow the worship of Slaanesh
@@tominieminen66 Morathi would like a word
@@adrianowen476 Indeed. And I would like a word with her about her godawfully annoying chaos corruption mechanic too hehe
Focus fire - classic RTS strategy that works by reducing enemy DPS as quickly as possible.
This is the reason the AI is not really good while commanding armies with lots of ranged units. It doesn't know how to focus fire and moves its ranged units around too much.
and has them all on skirmish mode. and don't use terrain well.
It did get better a bit. I saw situations (esp. Nurgle vs dawi or Ogres vs Cathay), when they tried sniping my big units. At some point Ku'gath really started melting... aaand then the Toads attacked from the rear, whereupon all their Thunderers, with skirmish mode on, fell into a disarray -.- Yeah, so its not MILES better, that for sure
Simply having armour piercing missiles focus on armoured units would be a great step in the right direction for AI.
Or there should be an in game value mechanic. Drago ogres would be high value so the missile units would focus on those.
Isn't skirmish mode off by default?
@@loowick4074 it's on and the AI always uses it
Loved this video. awesome tips with great pacing. Big fan of this channel!
as a main dwarf player this really is a good tactic. in all my campaigns in the old world i never had an ork giant touching my units, because they died way before they could reach me
This is one of the first lessons playing a faction participating in the lustria bowl (ikit) taught me
?
Clan Skrye Ikit Claw has a lot of ranged (jezzail, rattling guns, warpfire thrower) and he starts in the lustria bowl. He also fights lizardmen, with lots of big dinos. It's a pretty big lesson in focus fire.
@@THEHAMMERNOOB Ikit doesn't start in Lustria.
Edit : ok it does in Vortex. Who plays Vortex though seriously?
@@samarkand1585 He does in the Vortex campaign.
@@samarkand1585 I think he does in vortex.
I was just playing a Caledor campaign and managed to hold off Morathi invasions far easier than expected with these tactics.
My archers, reavers and sea guard routed several units very quickly. After that, very basic infantry and a single unit of silver helms had an easy go of it mopping up. She lost several armies this way.
It's often tempting to go for the big expensive cavalry and monsters but a bunch of cheaper ranged units can really exceed expectations. Skavenslaves come to mind, hate those little rats.
Great video and well taught as usual!
I have won entire campaigns on the back of dark shards with my dark elves. 10 units with some boys in front easy clap hell iv had ny empire armies slap the entire chaos envision in record time just by focus fire guns.
4 stacks of skavenslave slingers also does the trick
@@neinherman9989 they are ok, but gunners are where its at
In my experience with wh3 enemy ranged units will focus fire your RANGED units while uncommanded player ranged units seem to shoot the nearest enemy resulting in unmicroed player ranged units often losing to enemy ranged units.
I think that's been the case for a while. The AI is issuing actual commands for its own units, however suboptimal, so they should be outperforming a unit that isn't commanded at all.
It's annoying in WH2 how the AI will ignore your other units just to fire at your shitty 800 gold Greatweapon infantry above else, assuming you don't have monsters yet. Like Greatweapons already have so many disadvantages in this game, they didn't need that as well. I didn't buy WH3 so don't know if the AI still acts the same.
@@rubz1390 lets just put it this way: I stopped playing WH3 with battle realism on, simply because any of my ranged units with guard mode on stop firing as soon as their initial enemy that i clicked on leaves their range zone. so guard mode just became an "ONLY SHOOT THIS ONE UNIT AND THEN GO AFK!"
AI: Hmmm. How can I counter focus fire?
Piccolo: DODGE!
As Cathey, arrow mirror.
Great advice! Also I’d like to see some more about how to use gunpowder infantry properly due to the “clear sight” firing condition. I mean after they shoot 1 time and ran back through your frontline... Bowmen can just continue to fire from the backs, while gun troops just waiting for the battle’s end =(
Spaced battle lines, if you stagger the line it’s even better. This can be done by counter charging and “tackling” enemy units with your front line units at different intervals. This should allow for flanking fire opportunities along with protecting your line from being wiped out by a single spell. They will be able to engage flying and large opponents throughout the battle so keep that in mind. I love sneaking in gunpowder units through an enemy line and shooting at their backs, great way to use the empire militia in the early campaign since it keeps casualties low and it isn’t the end of the world if they get engaged in melee. Of course it’s tougher to use this when outnumbered and the enemy has loose units.
That’s so true to tabletop (combat result at the end of a round) that brought me to tears ^^
Yes this is rather obvious to anyone Who has ever played tabletop. You dont win by killing more ennemies, you win by routing more units
Used me Empire Huntsmen with some gunners. Gunners are good for focusing on dangerous, and highly-Armored enemies first, while Huntsmen could do well routing the Large/Cav units like Knights, trolls, minotaurs, Chaos spawns, Orc boar boyz, Goblin wolf riders(could get a tricky), and definitely the hounds(Who's strength lies in flanking your more venerable units like Missile infantry.)
Zerkovich. Your slav "r" in word streltsi is prima sort 👍
First time posting on one of your videos, so I will start off with a big thank you. You and a single other RUclipsr have turned a game series I dismissed as "fun looking but completely unapproachable".. to my favorite past time ever. I'm introducing a bunch of friends to WH3 and sharing your videos and explaining your techniques to them. So a big thank you!
My question is whether this always applies even after melee has begun. Up till now, I have focus fired on the approach, but once I routed off or killed a unit or two, and we were in the thick of things, I spread the damage out so the most number of melee combatants got the *under fire* leadership penalty. In the hopes of routing out the whole army.
But perhaps that penalty isn't worth not getting the combined massive damage leadership debuff on a single unit and routing them quick? Or should I only spread the damage out if I've got other sources of debuff like, rear attacks or spells?
It depends more on the units themselves that are taking the fire. The leadership loss for spreading out will have differing values. You have to use your judgement on the value of the leadership loss according to the unit. Is it literally any dwarf unit? In which case, It's completely useless because you won't break them. Goblins on the other hand will take a heavier hit from a small penalty and will likely route pretty quickly.
That being said, since I'm a greenskin player. Focus firing is often not even an option for me because Greenskin choice of archers are goblins with poison arrows and you shouldn't bring a lot of archers with Greenskins because they're a melee focused faction. So since the numbers are few, It's almost always better for me to spread their poison effect throughout the front lines to further help out my own.
Exceptions for me would be very lightly armored troops and or giants.
Anyways good luck and have fun.
I really enjoy these tactics guides it helps alot in making me a better player I hope to see more so I'll focus fire on that subscribe button and wait for more in the future
"How do you counter large single entity monsters?"
"MOAR DAKKA!"
You'd think that with large creatures, they'd have THICC armor to cover their THICC cheeks that would be really hard to get through at range hence the melee anti-large that can slip in between the armor (large creatures still need to move after all) and keep applying said spear or magic sword there until said large creature runs or bleeds out. That would make sense
Then again, when fighitng a 2 story tall anger issues on hooves demon man with spiked axes sense is the least of your concerns
next episode will be firing is better than not firing
Focused fire is applied math. Not doing it is dumb, as it is why ranged weapons are the human meta and how we conquer nature and eachother
No it's spell meta now.
I.e, insert favourite president name casting minuteman for 6 winds of international diplomacy.
You win the 3v3 crossbow battle for a reason other than the leadership effects. You can use a set of formulas called Lanchester's laws to determine who will win in a fight. They take into account the numbers on each side and the rate of damage each unit puts out. In this case, as units don't die in one hit, a sort of defense modifier should also be included. As all the units here are identical, with the same firepower and defense, these laws state that the side with the greater numbers will necessarily win.
What this all ends up saying is that while the enemy is kind of attempting to fight three equal battles at the same time, you're allowing yourself to lose two battles slowly to win one really fast, and basically transform the whole combat into three defeats in detail of the enemy.
TL;DR: Focus fire is awesome.
The leadership effects make the process much faster though
@@houndofculann1793 Very true. It might be fun to run the test with Unbreakable units.
Assuming your managing your archerline actively, sometimes i single target a unit which routs, and then my archers chase the routing unit afterwords.
Its not hard micro, but something to be aware of
Guard mode on range units prevents this fairly well and keeps your formation intact, still need micro if you want to focus fire a different target
Select ranged unit/s, press H. Now they won't chase.
@@maryrose2676 That doesn't prevent chasing, it only cancels their current orders and he said he already micros them so it doesn't happen as much or as badly. Unless you halted them instantly after they routed someone, they would still break formation. Guard mode is the answer he's looking for.
The kossar don't deal much armor piercing damage to high armored units like Skarbrand. You'd get 90% of the return of killing him with just the streltsi in that army and maybe damage some other low armor units with the kossars. I did manage to kill a few empire lords with 3 units of streltsi when they charged my lords in the backline one by one. Would recommend.
I'm curious if using a narrow long formation is useful for these scenarios as opposed to the usual wide formation. I assume that it would in theory allow more missiles to hit the target but at the cost of losing more models. I know that wide formations are idyllic for getting as many units to engaged as possible, but maybe there something to be gained from changing the formation to be slight more favorable for line of sight.
It doesn't really matter... the ranged unit formations don't really matter in ranged combat, only in melee combat. The arrows/bullets fly towards targets, not formations like RL would be. In real life, if a block of 100 archers were to let fly, you could be reasonably certain those shots would land in roughly the same area as a block of 100 archers, assuming they were competent shots. That's typically how ranged units were taught... fire into that area, not at specifically a single guy, unless they were close up. In TW:W, though... a block of 100 archers targets 100 individual targets in a formation, not just letting fly and hoping the shots hit the area of that formation. But that same block of 100 archers would all target a single-figure unit individually. So that huge demonic general wouldn't be in the general area of 100 random shots in the vicinity, that huge demonic general would be the specific target of 100 aimed shots directly at him. So the formation for ranged units doesn't really matter in this game, the formation is to allow you to cover however much area you want to cover, and it only comes into play when those ranged units end up in melee combat.
took out imrik once with a f ton of of skaven slave slingers, was great
Nice! This will help Nurgle with anti-large! Now, let's see what ranged options I have...
Oh... :(
Ai archers always focus the nearest, highest value target. Sometimes they even makes extra steps.
i once blasted skarbrand to pieces with streltsi´s focused fire, dis fun :3
This is one of the reasons I prefer armor piercing damage to anti-large damage. Outside of the bracing bonuses which are great to have.
The only thing I would disagree with is that bloodletters are actually a fantastic unit to focus fire with missiles. The reason is that, being a demonic unit, if you cause a large leadership penalty, you can cause disintegration, and once that happens you can move onto the next unit without worrying about them rallying, the way a non-demonic unit might. Much better than minotaurs in that sense.
Otherwise, I agree. Focus fire is absolutely the key when using missile-heavy army.
Every Terran main watching this “HNNNNN DAT CONCAVE!”
what about the lizardmens (and others) with poison? spread the debuff or still focus fire?
focusfire has even another adanvtage since a single arrow doesnt kill a unit the units die faster when you focus. so it even works against unbreakable units.
See you in tha future!
Hey, do your Total Warhammer 3 tactics work for Total Warhammer 2 as well?
According to the CC Orge Bulls are rendered as Yoga Bulls, or Ogre Balls, must be trying to figure out the accent. :)
I'm wanting to play multiplayer and the link for Zerkovichs discord seems to have expired, does anyone know how i join it please?? :) Cheers!
I am surprised people don't know this. I hadn't played Warhammer for maybe a week and figured out that all ranged units focusing on a big giant large object tend to tear through its health.
1 black guard of naggarrond 4 dreadspears and 8 shades will carry you so far cause of this
did the lord bonus help you over them?
As a Kislev player, I know all about focus fire lol.
This is why I keep a lot of my generals unhorsed. It’s also why warhammer 1 had physically big generals at first. It was a balancing thing.
Is it a good idea to stop focus firing on retreating units or wait till they are broken?
One would think. Hitting more units would be the best idea because there is more area to shoot but I guess in these games it's more about the "leadership"
But then again. What if there is a lord near the ranged?
They can't route so maybe single target better?
Leadership is actually a small factor and sometimes it's not even relevant. This would still apply if everything was unbreakable. It's really just applying the same math that has been applied to many games for years and years.
The theory of focusing has existed for ages and it's precisely why Krimson Killerz who spread their damage between two targets are actually worse(Probably 98% of the time) than regular Black Orcs who focus on killing one target at a time
Found this out when my free company militia nuked a group of flying large in one salvo killing 6-10 in one go
Also here a better tactic but your hero in front and make him dodge n weave it makes shooting him alot harder so he will take minimal damage then use the archers to focus on each of their units
Great video!
I think it is one of the most glaring weaknesses of TWWH, missiles are way to strong and most large targets are simply too susceptible to missiles.
I'd say all ranged troops should get their damage potentiail (that is Missile Strength, ammo or accuracy) cut by about 30%-50% and large targets should be less susceptible to missiles.
An arrow simply shouldn't do the same amount of damage to a Carnosaur and to a humanoid target. The Carnosaur shouldn't care as much if a buch of arrows hits it in the head while a human-sized target should indeed fell the pain of it.
Many large units already do have 15-25% missile resistance on top of whatever armor they have but the problem usually is the sheer amount of hits they're taking since almost all projectiles will hit big targets while many will miss when shooting at small ones
And that is exactly the problem. Large entities, like Carnosaurs and bigger, simply shouldn't care being hit by small arms fire at all.
Compare this situation to the modern battlefield.
A Abrams tank doesn't care if literally thousands of AK-47s shoot it. They do nothing to it, apart from the paint peeling of.
That's exactly what should be happening to huge targets. Nothing.
The whole system needs to be reworked extensively or ranged will always be the meta.
@@MaSOneTwo arrows were overpowered tiill gunpowder... just look at the english longbow, or mongolians horseback bowman. I disagree with you, an arrow or two would really do nothing to a Carnosaurs, but thats not what happens, a carnosaur is SHOWERED by hundreds of arrows, and that rightfully will kill it. Anciant wars were won by the bow and the spear, if anything, the spearman should get a rework in TW, since they are rubbish against infantry when IRL they ruled the battlefield
I think they should further reduce damage and accuracy based on range and elevation
EDIT:
And maybe give a flat damage reduction to large and monstrous units
Maybe something like
90% of hits reduce Soft and/or AP damage by 5
Your analogy is incorrect. Bullets do nothing compared to tanks because of their near impenetrable armor and not because they're large
A carnosaur and other giants are flesh and bone with little to no armor. Yes, they have thicker skin but that is already reflected in the game by giving them missle resistance.
Realistically, giants would die even faster than they do in game after a few volleys of 100s of arrows.
Always a good watch
As a Vampire Counts player, I have no idea what the hell this is about. So I should use all my spear skellies at once?
Did you see the starting funds for domination will be increased?
What hope do factions like Khorne have that don't have the ability to focus fire people?
...and this is why a longer battles mod is nessary.
By default, i think focus fire is nothing but a waste of firepower and ammunition (except to kill some big size or valuable targets). Because the less enemy you shoot at, the higher chance you miss. 100 enemies is twice easier to shoot at than 50.
But yeah, there we have morale mechanic, dont need to kill a stack unit to remove it from battle. And for routing enemy stack will decrease other's too.
The ai's use of Skarbrand just hurts to see. He is in my opinion one of if not the best melee lord in the game, but you can't just sit him in anywhere. He's best used as either a chariot, yes, a chariot, or as shock cav. He needs to bounce around missiles, and use his speed, mass, and great collision damage to use the focus that he draws to his advantage.
Range is coward, but I'm a coward so thanks for video.
Its the same advice since StarCraft times 💫
I wish this wasn't a thing, SE monsters just aren't a problem at all like they should be
I need some first 10-20 turn videos on campaign normal normal difficulty or whatever difficulty,im dying here i cant learn this game ,i just get too confused on what to build,where to go,what units to recruit. Please make those videos
Did you play the tutorial? Reading tooltips for your units helps, too.
@@HiddenEvilStudios i have tried every race a couple times,i used to play video games on pc like this when i was young and i never thought about getting stuck,its like the older i get the harder it is to micro manage,i hope i can beat one campaign at least
how afraid of friendly fire do I need to be?
In campaign, missile units ARE my anti-large units in all of the TWW games. I typically don't specifically carry anti-large units in my late game because of exactly this tactic... large units are easy targets. The only real exception might be if I'm taking on an army full of large units like the Ogres or Beastmen. In PVP, I actually chuckle when players bring in one or two large units because that's just easy points as far as I'm concerning... a few well-placed artillery shots or focus-firing your ranged units will typically remove them from the battlefield.
the AI cant handle fly-overs. they go nuts
Whats the best antilarge for nurgle?
Tzeench :D
if I get this right the programmers didn't make the AI build two armies of one with cavalry destroying your artillery and another with infantry and now they rush into artillery head front.
Mathematically this is moddeled by lanchester's law.
*laughs in Leadbelcher*
focus firing a lord & a monster before the fight actually start often win the game, just sayin
God I wish I had this good of graphics.
They seem to lose less accuracy shooting at bigger things
Playing with empire that has a piece of crap of infantry this is always neccesary, at least for me
Single large units will fall down or stagger when hit by artillery making every other artillery miss. Focus firing on them is a waste.
This isn't universal, enemies that are close enough, wide enough, have a simple stagger animation, or artillery that is accurate enough (or inaccurate and lucky) can still hit. You can also stagger your fire: have all arty on hold fire, have first fire, wait a few seconds (~as long as the stagger animation), have 2 fire, etc. Done correctly and with enough artillery you can effectively stun lock large targets
This is just the total war version of Lancaster's Law.
ruclips.net/video/wpjxWBwLkIE/видео.html Here is it for a different game, Age Of EMpires 2
DAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKA
Strrrrrrreltsi
See zu in za fuza
A shame the AI is so simplistic, truly a shame. Hopefully the modders make it so that the AI can provide an even fight without having to outnumber the player three-to-one while cheating on top of that.
Its always been the best anti large, is this meant to be revelatory?
Vampire count players aren’t welcomed here
Well... yes?
Third!
Games Workshop suspends all Warhammer sales in Russia :):):):):)
First.
who else is bored about tw:w3 ?
lol, this game is embarrassing for everybody
Really focus fire is effective oh wow its almost like shooting 1000 arrows at a single per volley compared to 100 will have more arrows hit -.- no shit shirlock
Great video but i hate that your game looks soooooo goood.... 🤤