Man those SD numbers were so bad I really thought it had to improve. I am not going to lie I was hoping for a pic comparison of the 2 springs side by side to see the difference in length. Good video regardless.
I always close the bolt while holding the trigger down (on an empty chamber of coarse) to release the spring pressure while storing, never had to replace a firing pin spring doing that easy step.
Springs dont wear from beeing compressed but from repeated use. The springs are not tensionless when not "primed", so the idea that dry firing (or loosening the spring in the manner you say) does not make a difference long term. Dads rifle has probably sat tensioned for 40 years and it works just as good as when it was new, a Win 70.
@@MyLonewolf25 BS, even car and truck springs sag over time with weight on them and NOT just from use. I even seen magazine springs quit feeding from being loaded all the time, I even bought a new follower for a model 9417 that quit feeding the last 2 rounds, and it wasn't even very old, maybe 2 years at the most. So go sell your stories to some young idiot, I'm too old for that nonsense. 🤣
I really didn't think it was going to do much if anything but I also agree I'm a routine maintenance guy as well. There's no point of waiting on problems to start happening if you can help it because you know they're going to start at the worst possible time. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
The firing pin springs were fine as you concluded. There is soooo much hope in the shooting community that changing a properly functioning spring, for a new, properly functioning spring will make a difference. Your test is similar to most of the other results I've seen.
Springs wear out from cycling them. But that round count is in the THOUSANDS. Well north of 8000 rounds. Beretta says to replace the recoil and trigger return spring around 5000 rounds. I’ve fired well north of 15,000 rounds through my 92FS and there is a marked improvement in how if functions. But it was 15,000 rounds before I replaced the main spring on the hammer.
This video is well worth the viewing just to see how to keep springs and parts from flying into orbit. One option for better s.d.'s is trying different primers if possible.
Thank you for giving it a try and showing the results. We are all more informed now. How about an application of JB Bore Paste? Maybe the older barrels have enough micro-imperfections that they compound into high SD's? Would be an easy before and after test.
Doing load development for my buddies 270wsm and no matter the bullet or load always getting a random flyer. First thought was firing pin then found action screws 30inlbs under spec. Same issues so ordered a firing pin hope that's the cause
Johnny, what I always thought is that generally, grouping is a function of load and component quality, where good sd numbers are far more load tune, and mainly Barrel quality. You can have sub-moa cheap rifles, but It would be interesting to see if they can hold good sd's, though. I am sure that there are exceptions. Custom barrels may shoot at least half-good sd's with untuned loads and poor grouping, as far as my experience goes.
I'm having a bunch of light primer strikes with my 10 year old remington 700v 223. That's why I replaced my spring. No more issues and my pet load still shoots the same.
As a rule, ball powders are going to give bad SD's. I was disappointed in the N120 SD's and that points to a primer issue. Erik Cortina has proven that differences in primer seating pressure (depth) affects ES's and SD's. Of course he is using a $600 dollar tool that has great control of seating depth. I'm not going to spend that kind of money to seat primers, but I do have a tool that has good enough feel so I can stop when I feel the primer bottom out. When I shoot 300 and 600 yard benchrest the ten ring is 2/5's MOA. Low ES's are key to keeping the vertical out of the groups. Since the spring didn't help much, if any, the issue has to be in your loading. As you know, with the right load and procedures, SD should be in the single digits and at worse the low double digits with single base powders. With ball powder who knows, just believe the target and forget SD's.
Don't worry too much about firing pin spring It plays more of a minor roll in accuracy compared to bedding a barrel. The 243 needs a tune up on bedding. Could put it in a better stock. I like to do minor polishing of barrel by fire lapping and using Rem Clean , JB bore paste, or even Brasso. Polish barrel crown when done. If none of that give you satisfaction in your accuracy requirements after load development. Time to rebarrel.
My 1971 700 has a couple of thousand rounds through it and has been dry fired maybe 3 times that when I can't get to the range. Velocities are consistent with my pet handload and it's holding about 3/4 MOA. Maybe the springs were better back then.
I have only seen spring-swaps beeing usefull on 22LR where a stronger spring can give you better accuracy. That together with a good proper firing pin. But 22LR is much more finnicy then centerfire as the priming compund is much less reliable.
@@davegreenleaf5272 that seems more like it would change group size from the delay time difference. Not so much the actual ES and SD numbers? Now if the primers were not consistent in their "firing" that I could see causing difference in the ES & SD numbers. I would think?
The outcome of this video is what I assumed would happen. But yes, periodic maintenance is probably way more important in changing old springs out than trying to tighten up ED & SD numbers.
That is so neat! I do not own a 3d printer, what are the chances you can make and sell these! I'm in need of one. I have a 700 ML I'm trying to replace the firing pin on
Typically the only time a firing pin spring is going to cause erratic ignition is when it's broken, not when it's mildly worn. Consistent primer strike is consistent primer strike, regardless of how hard. I keep extra firing pin springs, pins, sear springs etc... for my match rifle in my range box for this reason. If something happens in a match and I, nor my load have changed, that's the first place I start looking.
It is interesting to me that the average velocities of all the groups, with the exception of one, increased with the new springs. More efficient burn? Hotter ambient temperatures? I don't know what your case fill looks like with those loads but from what I have noticed in my limited time of reloading, when I can get a powder that gives me close to 100% fill or even slightly compressed my SD's are better. Love your content!
hello Johnny i would love to see a load in 9mm with the 95gr tacxp 9mm from Barnes using the shell shock case. I think this bullet will hold together at high speeds especially if loaded to +p+ pressures. also the 95gr jsp from magtech would be interesting.
when replacing springs, i avoid wolff springs as they rust and bind easily. I've had bad luck with glock springs and in a few other guns. OEM is best, imo.
Thanks for all the great content. Really enjoy your channel!!…In your opinion is reloading still a good option for someone to try to start now? Are reloader and reloading components hard to source? Can you still save enough money to justify your time if you’re a casual shooter who really can’t justify shooting high priced factory ammo?
Man, I don't like correcting folks much on their shooting, but you should try using the grip on the stock and lay your thumb alongside of the stock and concentrate on your follow through. That will help tighten up your groups. I did enjoy the video by the way.
After a new spring (assuming your old one is very worn - you can tell by comparing length of old vs new if they are the same weight spring) you'll have to re-tune you load. If you still have my email, shoot me a note and I'll walk you through measuring primer depth protrusion.
All this work with different powder and bullets to get tight groups and I am sitting here thinking I would be happy if any of my shots hit near the target with standard store bought ammo. With my cheap scopes 🤣
You may not have gotten $7 worth but I sure did from this great video! Thanks for taking one for the team👍
Man those SD numbers were so bad I really thought it had to improve. I am not going to lie I was hoping for a pic comparison of the 2 springs side by side to see the difference in length. Good video regardless.
I always close the bolt while holding the trigger down (on an empty chamber of coarse) to release the spring pressure while storing, never had to replace a firing pin spring doing that easy step.
Springs dont wear from beeing compressed but from repeated use. The springs are not tensionless when not "primed", so the idea that dry firing (or loosening the spring in the manner you say) does not make a difference long term.
Dads rifle has probably sat tensioned for 40 years and it works just as good as when it was new, a Win 70.
springs wear from cycles not compression
@@MyLonewolf25 BS, even car and truck springs sag over time with weight on them and NOT just from use. I even seen magazine springs quit feeding from being loaded all the time, I even bought a new follower for a model 9417 that quit feeding the last 2 rounds, and it wasn't even very old, maybe 2 years at the most. So go sell your stories to some young idiot, I'm too old for that nonsense. 🤣
I really didn't think it was going to do much if anything but I also agree I'm a routine maintenance guy as well. There's no point of waiting on problems to start happening if you can help it because you know they're going to start at the worst possible time. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Interesting test. You're really pumping out the content, keep up the hard work, broseph
The firing pin springs were fine as you concluded. There is soooo much hope in the shooting community that changing a properly functioning spring, for a new, properly functioning spring will make a difference. Your test is similar to most of the other results I've seen.
I just got a 1965 hand me down Winchester 70. This video was so helpful to even know what to look up on RUclips. Thanks.
Springs wear out from cycling them. But that round count is in the THOUSANDS. Well north of 8000 rounds.
Beretta says to replace the recoil and trigger return spring around 5000 rounds. I’ve fired well north of 15,000 rounds through my 92FS and there is a marked improvement in how if functions.
But it was 15,000 rounds before I replaced the main spring on the hammer.
Spring harmonics goes all the way down the barrel. David Tubb sells 700 firing pin springs that cancels out the harmonics.
I don't know anything about Remington 700s, either. Thanks for sharing, Mr. Bench.👍
This video is well worth the viewing just to see how to keep springs and parts from flying into orbit. One option for better s.d.'s is trying different primers if possible.
Thank you for giving it a try and showing the results. We are all more informed now. How about an application of JB Bore Paste? Maybe the older barrels have enough micro-imperfections that they compound into high SD's? Would be an easy before and after test.
I would check the LC brass for co sistent volume. Unless match brass LC can and is very inconsistent for internal volume
Doing load development for my buddies 270wsm and no matter the bullet or load always getting a random flyer. First thought was firing pin then found action screws 30inlbs under spec. Same issues so ordered a firing pin hope that's the cause
Will you please do a video on the 178gr eldm for .308?
Johnny, what I always thought is that generally, grouping is a function of load and component quality, where good sd numbers are far more load tune, and mainly Barrel quality.
You can have sub-moa cheap rifles, but It would be interesting to see if they can hold good sd's, though. I am sure that there are exceptions.
Custom barrels may shoot at least half-good sd's with untuned loads and poor grouping, as far as my experience goes.
Thanks for the stl files on that tool JRB! Heading to grab the files now.
I'm having a bunch of light primer strikes with my 10 year old remington 700v 223. That's why I replaced my spring. No more issues and my pet load still shoots the same.
As a rule, ball powders are going to give bad SD's. I was disappointed in the N120 SD's and that points to a primer issue. Erik Cortina has proven that differences in primer seating pressure (depth) affects ES's and SD's. Of course he is using a $600 dollar tool that has great control of seating depth. I'm not going to spend that kind of money to seat primers, but I do have a tool that has good enough feel so I can stop when I feel the primer bottom out. When I shoot 300 and 600 yard benchrest the ten ring is 2/5's MOA. Low ES's are key to keeping the vertical out of the groups. Since the spring didn't help much, if any, the issue has to be in your loading. As you know, with the right load and procedures, SD should be in the single digits and at worse the low double digits with single base powders. With ball powder who knows, just believe the target and forget SD's.
Don't worry too much about firing pin spring It plays more of a minor roll in accuracy compared to bedding a barrel.
The 243 needs a tune up on bedding. Could put it in a better stock. I like to do minor polishing of barrel by fire lapping and using Rem Clean , JB bore paste, or even Brasso. Polish barrel crown when done. If none of that give you satisfaction in your accuracy requirements after load development. Time to rebarrel.
My 1971 700 has a couple of thousand rounds through it and has been dry fired maybe 3 times that when I can't get to the range. Velocities are consistent with my pet handload and it's holding about 3/4 MOA. Maybe the springs were better back then.
Changing the spring on my 700 fixed the "Flier" that occurred at times.
don't forget Reloder 7,it's awsome with 40 grain v-Max
I have only seen spring-swaps beeing usefull on 22LR where a stronger spring can give you better accuracy. That together with a good proper firing pin. But 22LR is much more finnicy then centerfire as the priming compund is much less reliable.
I had a 700 in 243 that had the trigger problem. I didn’t even have to pull the trigger to have it go off:)
Instead of dealing with cold bore flyers, wait 5 minutes between firing off rounds?
How can a spring change SD and ES numbers? (asking this just as the video starts so I don't know the outcome yet)
Same here 🤔
Apparently it’s consistent primer strike from what little I’ve learned from the benchrest and Fclass shooters.
I belive a new strong spring will hit the primer with more consist force generating more consists ignition than a worn or weak spring will.
@@davegreenleaf5272 that seems more like it would change group size from the delay time difference. Not so much the actual ES and SD numbers?
Now if the primers were not consistent in their "firing" that I could see causing difference in the ES & SD numbers. I would think?
The outcome of this video is what I assumed would happen. But yes, periodic maintenance is probably way more important in changing old springs out than trying to tighten up ED & SD numbers.
That is so neat! I do not own a 3d printer, what are the chances you can make and sell these! I'm in need of one. I have a 700 ML I'm trying to replace the firing pin on
Can’t know until you try!
Typically the only time a firing pin spring is going to cause erratic ignition is when it's broken, not when it's mildly worn. Consistent primer strike is consistent primer strike, regardless of how hard. I keep extra firing pin springs, pins, sear springs etc... for my match rifle in my range box for this reason. If something happens in a match and I, nor my load have changed, that's the first place I start looking.
Interesting cold bore on that first group!
Is there only one tool for long and short action 700s?
It is interesting to me that the average velocities of all the groups, with the exception of one, increased with the new springs. More efficient burn? Hotter ambient temperatures? I don't know what your case fill looks like with those loads but from what I have noticed in my limited time of reloading, when I can get a powder that gives me close to 100% fill or even slightly compressed my SD's are better. Love your content!
That 243 I'm thinking your getting bad harmonics with the stock touching the barrel
hello Johnny i would love to see a load in 9mm with the 95gr tacxp 9mm from Barnes using the shell shock case. I think this bullet will hold together at high speeds especially if loaded to +p+ pressures. also the 95gr jsp from magtech would be interesting.
when replacing springs, i avoid wolff springs as they rust and bind easily. I've had bad luck with glock springs and in a few other guns. OEM is best, imo.
Im trying to remember if you’ve done any annealing work and the difference with / without annealing
Need to check firing pin protrusion ! Should be between .055 - .060.
My pops had a 700 BDL for many years, and never knew anything about it.
If a ICE valve spring can last longer than other engine parts, where is the reason for the firing pin spring to go bad?
Thanks for all the great content. Really enjoy your channel!!…In your opinion is reloading still a good option for someone to try to start now? Are reloader and reloading components hard to source? Can you still save enough money to justify your time if you’re a casual shooter who really can’t justify shooting high priced factory ammo?
Couldn't see any reason why the spring would have an effect on accuracy
The test wasn’t about accuracy but Testing SD and ES
if you will use 80 to 90lbs paper your bullet holes will be neat and round, with a backer
Man, I don't like correcting folks much on their shooting, but you should try using the grip on the stock and lay your thumb alongside of the stock and concentrate on your follow through. That will help tighten up your groups. I did enjoy the video by the way.
I think it’s just powder, there is a combination that will yield good numbers, you just have to find it
Sounds like a wives tale started by a guy who sells Remington parts 😂
After a new spring (assuming your old one is very worn - you can tell by comparing length of old vs new if they are the same weight spring) you'll have to re-tune you load. If you still have my email, shoot me a note and I'll walk you through measuring primer depth protrusion.
You should change the spring, generally, every time you change your barrel. New barrel, new spring.
Did you know if you send me something I will be happier! Lol great vid thanks for your time!
Thank you for saving me $7.
Hmmm, if my .243 shot like that, I think I'd go over all the screws for tightness.....
I picked up my Remington 700 used 23 years ago. Maybe I should change my firing pin spring?
I use imr 4895 in my 6mms, and 6.5s, they like that powder ....
3551?? 223??
All this work with different powder and bullets to get tight groups and I am sitting here thinking I would be happy if any of my shots hit near the target with standard store bought ammo. With my cheap scopes 🤣
Thanks for video
Even though it was a new spring there was still an issue with the new spring.
I like vitavouri, god stuff
Some lapua brass would help for that 243
You'd get better results if you sort out your trigger control amongst other things.
😊😊😊
😀👍❤
New content idea, crazy pitch... Take your most accurate gun and loads and make some prince Rupert drops and shoot them
.
Don’t think testing some random loads and trying to make useful data doesn’t seem useful at all lol
Bad springs??????? Total bullshit.