My whole problem with the Coors effect is people want to punish the hitters in MVP and Hof voting but won’t give the pitchers a boost in accolades for playing in Coors it makes no sense
The problem is that the entire Arena Favors those that play there Regularly. Just trying to walk around and Breathe is a lot harder if you aren't acclimated. This is why talented players that succeed elsewhere but don't have the best work ethic tend to wash out from ANY Denver based team. I give pitchers the credit when they succeed, Ubaldo Jimenez had an Untouchable 2010. His Splits though? Over 3 ERA at Home, 2.63 Away. This is pretty common for Rockies Pitchers. I give credit where it is due, but also look at the whole picture.
We must also consider the rockies are only a 30 year old team; with 1 hall of famer. And Helton is worthy no matter which team he was on. The yankee effect is what really should be discussed; 27 hall of famers, the most of any organization. Would they all be HOF worthy if they played on different ball clubs who didn't win as much? Or a ball club that didn't have the same celebrity status, fame and recognition? I think that would be a better discussion than the rockies club, which is a younger club on the scale of baseball history and who didn't have many players who spent their entire career in a rockies uniform
Thank you. Us Rockies fans have been stressing this for years. The biggest problem in my opinion isn't even on the body, though that obviously has its effects; it's ball movement. The players are constantly adjusting to seeing the ball move differently in different places. If you look at the history of 6+ game road trips, I'd be willing to bet you find better offensive numbers overall in games 4-6 because players have adjusted to seeing ball movement at sea level again. If playing at Coors was that easy for hitters, we'd have made the playoffs more than 5 times in 30 years. 😂
Statistically, wouldn’t it make sense that half ballparks favor hitter and half pitchers sense the stat are based on above and below average production
No. You could have it as balanced or unbalanced if you want. If coors was 100x more favorable than other parks, all other parks would have below average offensive output.
The Coors field effect is more about having to deal with the Monfort brothers running the team. Or maybe that is just a boy from Weld counties interpretation.
Although I understand your point about the wind being a benefit at Wrigley, for the first half of the year it is a major obstacle. Usually blowing in very hard and killing lots of potential homers. So I think that evens out
It’s helpful how in recent years stats like OPS+ and WRC+ have been normalized so we can adjust for things like park factors and still not over-emphasize the impact of ball parks
I lived in the Denver area for about 5 years and I do get your point. Another little thing I learned is when you go from Denver to the lower altitudes you can drink way more alcohol and not feel it. The first time my wife came out to Colorado I warned her about drinking in the higher elevations and I got the I know what I am doing and she got wrecked on a few drinks. After we livid there for a few years some friends visited and I took them to pikes peak. I was walking toward the edge at the top and they yelled to me to wait for them and when I turned they were way behind and winded. I felt when I would leave and come back the altitude didn’t really effect me like it did at first. I agree with you about the offensive numbers being high because it is a huge ball park. The ball does seem to carry very well there though. You stopped without pitching and will do that soon I hope. At mile high with the thin air the ball does not break as much and I feel that has been the main reason for the bigger numbers.
Yes the air density; or lack there of, is the reason for the greater offensive numbers, as pitchers breaking balls break less and fly balls travel further in the thinner air
I came from Phoenix to Denver to play college baseball for these next two years and what they’re saying about having to adjust is true, for at least a week and a half when you’ve never been there or aren’t used to the elevation, you’re gonna be at like 70-80% of what you normally are, which doesn’t sound like a lot but is. Also as a hitter, the ball moves a good bit less coming to the plate, which is nice when you’re used to it, but similar to the physical aspect, if you’re not adjusted it can mess with you a little.
There is no home field advantage at Coors Field . The Rockies suck away and at home. For the last 10 or so years players coming to the Rockies expect to lose so they do.
As a Rockies fan, I always thought about it as Rockies players have to be extremely adaptable. Jordan touched on the effects on the body, but also how the ball moves. Pitches that move 10 inches at Coors can move several more elsewhere. Being a hitter you have to adjust for that on the road just as pitchers have to at home. Coors is likely more of a disadvantage to the Rockies than an advantage
It might help a little if the Rockies moved their spring training to Albuquerque. It's at the same altitude as Denver and is the home of their triple A team. It would at least give them a month or so at the beginning of the season to acclimate to high altitude. Maybe the team could encourage the players to live in Denver during the off season.
Adding to the comments about pitching at the end of the video, I hate how apparently we're supposed to knock Rockies hitter's numbers when it comes to things like MVP votes or the hall of fame, but Rockies pitchers don't get an equivalent boost. Don't think I've ever heard "yeah his numbers weren't as great but keep in mind he pitches half his games at Coors, so really he should get the Cy Young."
I feel like Larry Walker had to be shoehorned into the HOF by fans. Todd Helton deserves a serious consideration for his time, if it wasn’t for Peyton Manning he would have been a football player anyways.
If it wasn't for Peyton? Dude, Manning came to Denver in 2012. Helton retired in 2013. How could Manning possibly have been the reason Helton didn't play for the Broncos?!
If you had looked at the deviation of Rockies’ players home vs away stats and compared them to other teams’ home vs away stats to see if there was more of a struggle for Rockies’ players to adjust for road games that would have been helpful for your argument.
I get a nose bleed every time I go to Denver. Never a gusher or anything, just blowing my nose only to see blood. But still, it's not supposed to happen.
Are you a healthy individual who has normal blood pressure at sea level? Or are you a high body fat out of shape person whose blood pressure is high on a regular basis?
Rockies players are smoking good Colorado weed, while players playing in places like Kansas are at a disadvantage because when they go play the Rockies they're not used to getting high like that.
I don’t think the first home run hit by Ryan mc Mahon was 478. It cleared the bullpen over the 375 sign. The bull pen is about 30 feet wide and the ball went into the second or third row just above the bullpen. I think it’s a liberal estimate to say it went 75 feet over the fence which would make it 450. The estimates are quite obviously inaccurate and inconsistent. I’ve seen so many balls and been at the stadiums that cleared a 375 fence by 10 feet or two rows and they call it 395 feet. There is some incentive to exaggerate distances because it’s exciting
This gives me a renewed appreciation for Helton and CarGo. Only factor as of this moment inducing nausea and headaches are these donkeys....I mean Broncos.
I think your Nolan Arenado example makes it concreate the the "Coors Field Effect" is real. You showed how much better he was at home at Coors, but then when he started playing at Busch he was better away. That just proves that he was benefiting from playing in Coors like all players do. Also your example of "spotting the player" was terrible as well with Arenado, as he had the biggest home vs away stat differences. And Daniel Murphy was 2 years out of his prime when he started playing in Colorado, and he was MUCH better at home in that time too. I get the exhaustion factor but playing as an offensive player in Coors is a huge advantage and literally every example used in this video proves it
Looks like recording 4 times that day worked great because all that audio sounded good so I have no clue which track you chose or if you mixed some together 😂😂😂 I know I can just text you this but I think it’ll be funnier when you see this and Im close enough by to hopefully see you react to reading this 😂😂😂😂
There is a definite advantage it's not even debatable. The rockies are actually disadvantaged as they play at coors field the most, and become used to the lack of ball movement out of the pitchers hand and how to play the ball put into play on the defensive side. Once they go on the road suddenly pitchers they face are throwing nastier stuff and on defense the balls aren't coming off the opposing teams bats like they would at coors field making it harder for them to get the right jump and track the ball properly to make the play
As a Dodger fan watching Nolan, I can say he is the greatest 3rd basemen I have ever seen. Our Mike Schmidt. Plus the dude rakes. Going to miss Tio Albert and Yadi though....
The difference in Park Factor Runs between 14th place and 2nd place is 0.173. The difference between 2nd place and Coors is 0.295. That's almost double. This might be the most cherry-picked video I've ever seen lol.
Also the Park factor stats for Coors are way above the hitter friendly parks that you’re trying to point out. 😂 Just because other teams have an advantage playing at their home ballpark doesn’t mean there’s no Coors effect
This is dumb. Everyone knows that most teams have a home field advantage and struggle more on the road and and that Coors is the most drastic splits in both directions. Really nothing new here. Waste of my time.
Critiques: Ok, so you’re saying the Coors field effect actually is that players have to adjust to the effect of the altitude so technically there’s no effect. This makes no sense. Of course there’s an effect, you’ve given stats to prove this. You gave no stats about Holliday, Helton, or Walker. And your argument about arenado is that because other great players play well at home that means arenado isn’t affected by coors. And at the same time you show us that he plays way better at Coors than at Busch and plays slightly better on the road now. Now if you’re saying that the effect that is a myth is that Coors is the only factor that makes u a great hitter, then Arenado debunks that because he’s still a great hitter. But his Homeruns, XBH, and hits are down at Busch so that literally proves the fact that there is a coors field effect. 😂 again this video makes no sense and gives no proof to back up what you’re saying
Yeah I found this video very confusing and couldn't figure out what the point was lol. It sounded like they were trying to say that the coors effect on individual players isn't real but it's certainly real when you compare the stats as a whole at coors compared to all the other parks. Coors being #1 on the list of hitter friendly parks is all you really need to prove this.
My whole problem with the Coors effect is people want to punish the hitters in MVP and Hof voting but won’t give the pitchers a boost in accolades for playing in Coors it makes no sense
Like Kyle Freeland 2018
The problem is that the entire Arena Favors those that play there Regularly. Just trying to walk around and Breathe is a lot harder if you aren't acclimated. This is why talented players that succeed elsewhere but don't have the best work ethic tend to wash out from ANY Denver based team.
I give pitchers the credit when they succeed, Ubaldo Jimenez had an Untouchable 2010. His Splits though? Over 3 ERA at Home, 2.63 Away. This is pretty common for Rockies Pitchers. I give credit where it is due, but also look at the whole picture.
And they never do the same for a pitcher in a pitchers park
We must also consider the rockies are only a 30 year old team; with 1 hall of famer. And Helton is worthy no matter which team he was on. The yankee effect is what really should be discussed; 27 hall of famers, the most of any organization. Would they all be HOF worthy if they played on different ball clubs who didn't win as much? Or a ball club that didn't have the same celebrity status, fame and recognition? I think that would be a better discussion than the rockies club, which is a younger club on the scale of baseball history and who didn't have many players who spent their entire career in a rockies uniform
I have regrets about allowing a Sock Puppets shirt on a Melonheads channel
Thank you. Us Rockies fans have been stressing this for years. The biggest problem in my opinion isn't even on the body, though that obviously has its effects; it's ball movement. The players are constantly adjusting to seeing the ball move differently in different places. If you look at the history of 6+ game road trips, I'd be willing to bet you find better offensive numbers overall in games 4-6 because players have adjusted to seeing ball movement at sea level again. If playing at Coors was that easy for hitters, we'd have made the playoffs more than 5 times in 30 years. 😂
Statistically, wouldn’t it make sense that half ballparks favor hitter and half pitchers sense the stat are based on above and below average production
Depends how you define average.
If one stadium is an extreme outlier, it can move the mean.
The median will always work that way though
No. You could have it as balanced or unbalanced if you want. If coors was 100x more favorable than other parks, all other parks would have below average offensive output.
fun fact: larry walker had a higher OPS on the road in his career than tony gwynn did overall in his career
Well yeah because he’s a single hitter Walker is a Homerun an doubles witch will give him a better OPS dumb ass.
Todd Helton too for that matter
@@nathanlong5185 those PED years certainly helped
I always thought the bigger part of the effect is that pitches don't move as much, since the movement relies on air pressure.
It’s more on conditioning. It takes a toll on your body going in and out of altitude. Harder to breathe, less oxygen in the blood.
There are some pitches that don't work as well in Denver
5:01 you literally hear that 20 times more than the “coors field effect”
Isn’t the Coors effect more about doubles and batting average than home runs?
What I've been telling people for years now is, I think coors field is a double edged sword. It hurts you just as much as it helps you.
The Coors field effect is more about having to deal with the Monfort brothers running the team. Or maybe that is just a boy from Weld counties interpretation.
Although I understand your point about the wind being a benefit at Wrigley, for the first half of the year it is a major obstacle. Usually blowing in very hard and killing lots of potential homers. So I think that evens out
It’s helpful how in recent years stats like OPS+ and WRC+ have been normalized so we can adjust for things like park factors and still not over-emphasize the impact of ball parks
I literally proved why the Coors Field Effect was real to you in my back yard
It is indeed real, I was there to hear one of the greatest arguments ever made in human history by you
It's true, I was the grass
@@samimartinez1409 the crazy thing is we did have this argument, we both worked for the sock puppets
@@Jongobones512 the more you talk the more confused I become
YES. We have been saying this forever. Especially about how lethal the coors hangover effect (which IS real) is
I lived in the Denver area for about 5 years and I do get your point. Another little thing I learned is when you go from Denver to the lower altitudes you can drink way more alcohol and not feel it. The first time my wife came out to Colorado I warned her about drinking in the higher elevations and I got the I know what I am doing and she got wrecked on a few drinks. After we livid there for a few years some friends visited and I took them to pikes peak. I was walking toward the edge at the top and they yelled to me to wait for them and when I turned they were way behind and winded. I felt when I would leave and come back the altitude didn’t really effect me like it did at first. I agree with you about the offensive numbers being high because it is a huge ball park. The ball does seem to carry very well there though. You stopped without pitching and will do that soon I hope. At mile high with the thin air the ball does not break as much and I feel that has been the main reason for the bigger numbers.
Yes the air density; or lack there of, is the reason for the greater offensive numbers, as pitchers breaking balls break less and fly balls travel further in the thinner air
I came from Phoenix to Denver to play college baseball for these next two years and what they’re saying about having to adjust is true, for at least a week and a half when you’ve never been there or aren’t used to the elevation, you’re gonna be at like 70-80% of what you normally are, which doesn’t sound like a lot but is.
Also as a hitter, the ball moves a good bit less coming to the plate, which is nice when you’re used to it, but similar to the physical aspect, if you’re not adjusted it can mess with you a little.
There is no home field advantage at Coors Field . The Rockies suck away and at home. For the last 10 or so years players coming to the Rockies expect to lose so they do.
As a Rockies fan, I always thought about it as Rockies players have to be extremely adaptable. Jordan touched on the effects on the body, but also how the ball moves. Pitches that move 10 inches at Coors can move several more elsewhere. Being a hitter you have to adjust for that on the road just as pitchers have to at home. Coors is likely more of a disadvantage to the Rockies than an advantage
It might help a little if the Rockies moved their spring training to Albuquerque. It's at the same altitude as Denver and is the home of their triple A team. It would at least give them a month or so at the beginning of the season to acclimate to high altitude. Maybe the team could encourage the players to live in Denver during the off season.
please do a part 2 with pitching. this was awesome
God bless my powerful native coloradoan lungs.
Adding to the comments about pitching at the end of the video, I hate how apparently we're supposed to knock Rockies hitter's numbers when it comes to things like MVP votes or the hall of fame, but Rockies pitchers don't get an equivalent boost. Don't think I've ever heard "yeah his numbers weren't as great but keep in mind he pitches half his games at Coors, so really he should get the Cy Young."
The ivy doesn’t impact dingers? And the wind knocks down just as many as it carries out? Unfortunately, there’s no Wrigley Effect.
Did I just hear a Jordan radio ad read for the Rapids??
I can tell you from going to Colorado once every year the altitude sickness is real. I will never be able to adjust
"We'll first jump into some science"
:D
"Don't worry, nothing too crazy"
:/
Wasn't the whole issue with Coors Field related to starting pitcher longevity? Can you cover this in another video?
I thought for the first 20 seconds the girl talking was a commercial
I feel like Larry Walker had to be shoehorned into the HOF by fans. Todd Helton deserves a serious consideration for his time, if it wasn’t for Peyton Manning he would have been a football player anyways.
If it wasn't for Peyton? Dude, Manning came to Denver in 2012. Helton retired in 2013. How could Manning possibly have been the reason Helton didn't play for the Broncos?!
If you had looked at the deviation of Rockies’ players home vs away stats and compared them to other teams’ home vs away stats to see if there was more of a struggle for Rockies’ players to adjust for road games that would have been helpful for your argument.
sounds like the Rockies need to play the first half of the year on the road and the 2nd half at home. No more switching back and forth lol
I get a nose bleed every time I go to Denver. Never a gusher or anything, just blowing my nose only to see blood. But still, it's not supposed to happen.
Are you a healthy individual who has normal blood pressure at sea level? Or are you a high body fat out of shape person whose blood pressure is high on a regular basis?
you hear the short porch thing all the time with judge lol
No proof is given for saying a Home run advantage is a misconception vs a doubles and triples advantage
Great video. It's also really refreshing to hear female voices talk about sports. Baseball, in particular, is very male dominated
bro what you talking about its an 11 y/o boy
That's the reason she was paid to narrate this video my guy.
When the Rockies come to Busch stadium? The Cardinals absolutely own them. But the Rockies become a *very scary team* when my Cardinals go to Coors.
I mean I guessed the Rockies player in an instant. I think any hardcore baseball fan could have told you which of those was a Colorado aided statline.
Rockies players are smoking good Colorado weed, while players playing in places like Kansas are at a disadvantage because when they go play the Rockies they're not used to getting high like that.
I don’t think the first home run hit by Ryan mc Mahon was 478. It cleared the bullpen over the 375 sign. The bull pen is about 30 feet wide and the ball went into the second or third row just above the bullpen. I think it’s a liberal estimate to say it went 75 feet over the fence which would make it 450. The estimates are quite obviously inaccurate and inconsistent. I’ve seen so many balls and been at the stadiums that cleared a 375 fence by 10 feet or two rows and they call it 395 feet. There is some incentive to exaggerate distances because it’s exciting
Remember the wall to get over that wall is extremely tall
This gives me a renewed appreciation for Helton and CarGo. Only factor as of this moment inducing nausea and headaches are these donkeys....I mean Broncos.
I think your Nolan Arenado example makes it concreate the the "Coors Field Effect" is real. You showed how much better he was at home at Coors, but then when he started playing at Busch he was better away. That just proves that he was benefiting from playing in Coors like all players do. Also your example of "spotting the player" was terrible as well with Arenado, as he had the biggest home vs away stat differences. And Daniel Murphy was 2 years out of his prime when he started playing in Colorado, and he was MUCH better at home in that time too. I get the exhaustion factor but playing as an offensive player in Coors is a huge advantage and literally every example used in this video proves it
There is a Coors disadvantage…for pitchers. Just look at the teams career leader board for them.
SRS is a dub, period.
Looks like recording 4 times that day worked great because all that audio sounded good so I have no clue which track you chose or if you mixed some together 😂😂😂 I know I can just text you this but I think it’ll be funnier when you see this and Im close enough by to hopefully see you react to reading this 😂😂😂😂
Physical taxation without representation
Oh good. I couldn't quite figure out if this was a woman or a little boy talking at first
Yankees stadium is overall a pitcher friendly park lol
I got B but I thought it was Larry walker
Wait, another Jordan who likes baseball? We are kin lmao
Murphys knees failed him not Colorado
Also, can we get Toddy in the Hall?
The coors field effect has nothing to do with an advantage. It effects every team the exact same way….
There is a definite advantage it's not even debatable. The rockies are actually disadvantaged as they play at coors field the most, and become used to the lack of ball movement out of the pitchers hand and how to play the ball put into play on the defensive side. Once they go on the road suddenly pitchers they face are throwing nastier stuff and on defense the balls aren't coming off the opposing teams bats like they would at coors field making it harder for them to get the right jump and track the ball properly to make the play
As a Dodger fan watching Nolan, I can say he is the greatest 3rd basemen I have ever seen. Our Mike Schmidt. Plus the dude rakes. Going to miss Tio Albert and Yadi though....
Well done..good perspectives
The Bill Nye reference made the video for me
The difference in Park Factor Runs between 14th place and 2nd place is 0.173. The difference between 2nd place and Coors is 0.295. That's almost double. This might be the most cherry-picked video I've ever seen lol.
So people actually do talk about the advantage Yankees players have because of the short porch lol
God I'm in love with you. Please keep doing what you're doing. Nothing more attractive than a woman talking about baseball ❤
Also the Park factor stats for Coors are way above the hitter friendly parks that you’re trying to point out. 😂 Just because other teams have an advantage playing at their home ballpark doesn’t mean there’s no Coors effect
DJ became a god after coming to the yankees
Tod Helton is not a hall of famer because of the Coors Field effect. I hope he gets in soon, he was an awesome player
I new it was Nolan he was there for a long time I js looked for the games
Coors field helps hitters have a little better stats that’s it
Incorrect, science has shown there is a small effect
Source?
@@nuclear-ralph2367 science
@@thewaterbottle7220 Altuve is better than Bonds. Source: science
I did the same thing as you but is my argument valid?
@@baactiba3039 yes
@@thewaterbottle7220 Okay then
The Coors Field effect is real. Source: science.
Think a new microphone would help
you’re very pretty jordan
it’s coops
This is dumb. Everyone knows that most teams have a home field advantage and struggle more on the road and and that Coors is the most drastic splits in both directions. Really nothing new here. Waste of my time.
FIRST
DANG IT! BEAT ME TO IT!
third
1k likes
Critiques:
Ok, so you’re saying the Coors field effect actually is that players have to adjust to the effect of the altitude so technically there’s no effect. This makes no sense. Of course there’s an effect, you’ve given stats to prove this. You gave no stats about Holliday, Helton, or Walker. And your argument about arenado is that because other great players play well at home that means arenado isn’t affected by coors. And at the same time you show us that he plays way better at Coors than at Busch and plays slightly better on the road now. Now if you’re saying that the effect that is a myth is that Coors is the only factor that makes u a great hitter, then Arenado debunks that because he’s still a great hitter. But his Homeruns, XBH, and hits are down at Busch so that literally proves the fact that there is a coors field effect. 😂 again this video makes no sense and gives no proof to back up what you’re saying
Yeah I found this video very confusing and couldn't figure out what the point was lol. It sounded like they were trying to say that the coors effect on individual players isn't real but it's certainly real when you compare the stats as a whole at coors compared to all the other parks. Coors being #1 on the list of hitter friendly parks is all you really need to prove this.
letsssssssgoooooooo
coors does in fact benefit hitters. long ass homeruns arent impressive with less air resistance due to altitude
It’s definitely real.
Jesus her voice……
Cry
We should go on a date and talk about it...