The timeline doesn’t add up. Too much time passes between their time together and her wedding to Laenor. It would have been obvious if she was pregnant. Besides, Rhaenyra tells Daemon that in the first years of her marriage to Laenor they tried to have biological children and failed. It’s after that she started her affair with Harwyn and had kids.
@@thalmoragent9344 Infertility (even if that wasn't necessarily their problem) at that time was seen as something very bad, they would not admit that they couldn't have children
@@kenjako Perhaps. Then yeah, last option is to have another Velaryon man sire children with Rhaenyra, and Laenor raise them as their uncle or brother or something (but publicly as their father) This would've been the best course of action if they'd spoken at all with their immediate families about the scenario, whether cause he's infertile or cause he's Homosexual. People like Vaemond wouldn't be as pissed as he was, and Alicent would've understood the situation at hand. Either way, they'd be true Velaryons and also look the part as well
@@thalmoragent9344 the problem with that idea is that apart from Vaemond and Corlys himself, I think there were no other male velaryons. Also Allicent was upset about Rhaenyra lying to her, she would have just used that information to secure the throne for Aegon. Besides the main issue with Vaemond was his ambition and his will to have "true" velaryons in charge was second to that. Not once did he consider that Laenor himself accepted the three boys as his trueborn sons regardless of whether they were bastards or not, he treated them fairly as he would his true sons, Then there was the matter or Corlys who knew of their parenthood and still saw them as his grandsons and as a part of Laenor's line. Vaemond's entire argument was that since they weren't of velaryon blood they were not eligible to be heirs of driftmark and yet not once did he consider Lena's line, Corlys was hellbent on crowning Rhaenys, Rhaenys herself wouldn't have minded and even Viserys named his daughter as heir so clearly no one would mind if Lena's daughters inherited driftmark, but his intent was simply on having himself to be in charge. And also according to their religion homosexuality was a big taboo, Laenor and his parents along with his wife would have probably been disgraced.
I thought so too at first, from the hair type (Harwin's were curly, and only Luke and Joffrey are curly) but then, they did that voyage to meet with Corlys for betrothal between Laenor and Rhaenyra after Cole-Rhaenyra spent the night. The arrangement of the Velaryon-Targaryen wedding would've taken at least a few months after that betrothal. If she were already pregnant, she would be showing pretty well during the wedding party. Plus the age does not seem to fit pretty well.
Orrrr they made love more than once after the first time they did it and the betrothal. Ser Crispy wouldn't be asking to elope if he knew he was just a one-night stand.
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
@@randmoe4225 He was asking to elope because he saw it as the only way to fix his honor after Rhaenyra pressured him into breaking his vow of celibacy. Him asking her to elope had nothing to do with love.
@@uriel7395 yeah in his eyes he feels like he was assaulted. you can't really say no to the princess. For him it's more like a shot gun wedding thing. Making things right
My main support for this is that the actor playing the older Jacaerys not only has similar facial structure to Fabien Frankel, but he also has naturally curly hair and is wearing a wig in the show. I don't see why they wouldn't let him keep his natural curly hair if he were actually Harwin Strong's son. The timelines might not make complete sense, but I don't see the need for the horrible Carol Brady wig otherwise. There is a scene in episode eight in the training yard, where they deliberately pan from Jace's face to Criston's and back. They look A LOT alike.
In the episode 8, the new Jacaerys clearly looks like a mini Criston Just look at his angry face he putted when Vaemond call them bastards The same mad face of Sir Crispin when he murdered Joffrey
That’s interesting. I’ve never connected the anger thing but holy shit, his anger flows in the same vein as Criston’s. For both of them, there’s just this “switch” that flips and they just get into that mode.
@@automaticwriting4220 Criston is one of those aprensive guys who look very calm and normal but in reallity they are explosive and violent beasts And i think Jacaerys is a bit like this too but well controlled like when he almost fight with Aegon in the dinner
If I remember correctly, in books she slept with Hardin Strong instead of Cole that night and it was implied she didn’t drink the tea which led to her being pregnant with Jace. So even if the show changed it to Cole instead then it could be true that Cole is Jace’s dad
@@yourcommentmakesmecomment.3423 I thought that maybe she wouldn’t have drank the tea because it would have been proof that she wasn’t a virgin anymore before marriage which basically made a noble woman worthless back then
@@phoebe8086 That makes sense. Personally, I do not trust those masters providing the tea. They are most likely in someones pocket and report on the Princess. Although, it's a gamble to pretend you don't need the tea and pray you don't get pregnant!! 😬
@@yourcommentmakesmecomment.3423 I don't trust the maesters either, especially when watching them interact with Viserys. I agree with them most likely being Otto or even someone else's spy since Larys told Alicent that he heard about the tea being delivered to Rhanerya. It was certainly a gamble!
The book only speculates on all of this, there is no specific night in question, and it's all just rumor. There was no tea mentioned at all, that's is a100% a show creation.
That is interesting, Because my father told me I bet you’re the first kid is Cole’s.. ha if my 90 year old father is right.. I will give him 90 bucks ❤
It can't be Cole bc of the times, they just slept together once and motnhs before of the wedding meaning she should have a noticeable pregnancy by then which isn't the case
@@jrlombardi5251 they probably slept together more than once, they were very close in episode 5 until joffrey death. The wedding takes place after that, jacerys was born in that year.
OMG!! With the MANY Twists & Turns within the storyline, y'all are Concerned about Hair Texture?!?! Obviously, y'all Don't know that in the DNA, genes can Reach Back GENERATIONS- from ALL SIDES!! Seriously, Y'all are making my head Hurt... & THAT'S NOT in the Storylines!! Curly Hair... What a HOTT MESS.🤦🏻♀️🤦🏼♂️
Lucerys is confirmed fourteen in the last episode, this means he was eight after the ten year time jump and Jace had to be around ten. So we can't completely rule out Cole theory. The writers did this on purpose. They could have easily made them one year younger if they didn't want debates or fan theories
The time with the wedding still doesn't fit. She married Laenor a couple months after she had sex with Cole and no one would believe it was Laenor's if she had a perfectly healthy son so much time before of the actual time period of pregnancy, we know that didn't happen. Rhaenyra also confirmed that when she just got married to Laenor they tried it but didn't get it so she had to go to someone else to get pregnant bc she needed heirs, she wouldn't be saying that if she was already pregnant by that point and there's no way she couldn't notice she already was bc she can't be pregnant for 11 months.
@@jrlombardi5251 yes older jace looks more like Harwin. He has zero resemblance to Criston. Criston and Alicent would obviously know it's his child if Rhaenyra gave birth Seven or eight months after her marriage. But i feel like the writers kept some mystery around his age to get people talking.
@@bibimbap5917 She wouldn't have gave birth just seven or eight months later, her wedding was at the very least 4 months after she had sex with Criston, meaning she would have had Jace just 5 months after her wedding which would have made everyone see he was a bastard and would contradict all what Rhaenyra said about her first pregnancy
@@jrlombardi5251 dude I'm agreeing with you, I'm saying that IF Jace is actually Criston's son, and even if there wasn't any considerable time gap between the wedding and her affair with Cole,, Alicent and Cole would know right away who the real father is. So there needs no revelation to Criston or no shock factor because he already knows. Making Jace Criston's son therefore adds nothing to the story.
@@bibimbap5917 I know lmao, I just corrected something you said wrong in the middle of the comment that I know was saying the same as me, you just had some months wrong and I told you thta, never said you were against me
Wow because she had sex with a few people? Hmm. It’s not like she was doing her husband. Also Rhae was being very understanding and protective of Laenor of his sexuality…
@@Kikithewildling This show is based on the European Medieval Era. Modern standards don’t apply to it. The show has already gone extremely soft in sex scenes and deaths compared to Game of Thrones because of “modern morality” and the “cancel culture” of the real world. What do you think it would have happened if Leanor publicly acknowledged his homosexuality or if Rhaenyra recognized she had sexual relationships with Harwin Strong while being married to Leanor Velaryon? Please stop ruining the show and its magic.
@@AnImperialGod it's understandable if people in the story think she's a whore, but for a moderm audience to agree is strange, we're supposed to be critical of the backwards thinking not go with it
Ok so now I’m confused, I don’t know if the show runner is talking out his ass like the ones in game of thrones but he said in the after the episode that the oldest from the both sides age range from 17 to 21 Deamon’s girls, jace, aemond, Helena and aegon, which would make Deamon’s daughters, jace and aemond about the same age which I thought aemond would be older unless they aged him down
Jace can't be 17, before he was even born we had a 10 years skip and then a 6 years one, meaning he can be as much 15 years old bc of the time skip and the time of pregnancy and that just if Rahenyra got pregnant just after ep 5 (since she couldn't before by Criston or she would have had a noticeable pregnancy in her wedding)
@@jrlombardi5251 I’m with you there and was confused to when the show runner said that, but also the time line is weird, I know this only in the books but leanor dies couple months after leana and then rhaeyna and deamon marry half a year later after his death and they still thought that was to soon but in the show this seems to happen in a span of a month perhaps, plus the 6 year time skip is from when corlys left his wife for war, Doubt he left her right after all this happen, time must’ve passed after their childrens deat, plus preparing for war, am I reaching pretty far for this theory, yes I am, this would only confuse people more because why say a time skip if it’s not the right amount of time from the last episode, but Luke was confirmed to be 14 so jace must’ve been 15, 16, maybe 17 if I’m right, but that’s what the showrunner said about the age ranges of the older kids
@@jrlombardi5251 I know he probably just messed what he was saying at the after the episode probably just meant Alicents kids, but yeah what you said makes more sense, leanor and her trying for trying before she got with harwin time mustive passed, it was just a theory, one I had to really reach for
@@cristianbejarano2000 Corlys actually confirmed he left when he lost it all, meaning the death of their children, so even if for you it doesn't seem normal for him to leave right after Leanor's death, that's the case since that's the reason why he left in the first place. There's still no way that Jace can be 16 or 17, even with the timeline of the book (which isn't the same than the show's, since there it goes faster) so the showrunner made a mistake there.
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
People likes to believe Rhaenyra was several months pregnant in her wedding but that magically no one noticed or that they did multiple travels from kingslanding to driftmark and prepared a royal wedding in like a week lmao
@@jrlombardi5251 A month or two would be enough at the orders of the king. Also, cole and rhaenyra broke up during the trip back from driftmark when her marriage and all were already established and discussed. They could have well continued the relationship up until than and even if not, she could still be early in the pregnancy. You only show at like 3, 4 months when pregnant with the first most times. Some don’t even up to the 5th month much
@@samirah1240 the math wouldn't work towards the wedding. People would've known when she delivered the baby and rumors would've spread both in the family and realm. If the family didn't think it made sense that early on, they wouldn't suspect Harwin. Cole wouldn't be calling out Harwin, but probably reach back out to Rhaenyra if there was any possibility the boy was his as that WAS his character. Besides, theory doesn't fit the main story nor characters we've seen
Is it addressed in the book? If not, I wonder if George Martin would mind too much if the show takes that liberty. It's kind of a big one but if it doesn't interfere too much with the story, maybe we'll get to see it play out🤔 It's certainly an interesting theory!
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits the 10 year gap in ep 6. She might have been around a month preggo at the wedding than, and used the excuse that the baby was born a month or two premature, which was not uncommon during that time
@@samirah1240 The time with the wedding still doesn't fit. She married Laenor a couple months after she had sex with Cole and no one would believe it was Laenor's if she had a perfectly healthy son so much time before of the actual time period of pregnancy, we know that didn't happen. Rhaenyra also confirmed that when she just got married to Laenor they tried it but didn't get it so she had to go to someone else to get pregnant bc she needed heirs, she wouldn't be saying that if she was already pregnant by that point and there's no way she couldn't notice she already was bc she can't be pregnant for 11 months.
@@jrlombardi5251 Where is it stated she married him a couple months afte? Could well be one month. They broke up in the middle of episode 5, could have well had sex up until that point. And premature babies back than were common, aswell as getting pregnant soon after the wedding.Also, Laenor was grieving Joffrey ,they likely didn’t try for a while and, could have well tried to have his son after Jace to secure her claim better and potencially not have ppl on her back talking about how she had not given him any legitimate son. Also, the second was supposed to inherit driftmark anyway, as the first was the crown prince, not to mention it was risky to onlyhave one kid in that time and universe, Rhaenyras had 6 kids yet only 2 survived adulthood. Viserys and Aemma had many pregnancies and stillbirths,yet only one made it. Viserys and Daemon had a brother Aegon, that also died and so on. And also where tf did you get 11 months from? no specific time jump in mentioned between cole and rhaes affair/s and the wedding
@@samirah1240 It was stated in episode 5, it was said that it took Viserys and Rhaenyra an entire month to get to driftmark and there they just offered the marriage to Corlys and Rhaenyra talked with Laenor, nothing more, after that we saw them coming back to kingslanding in the ship so that's another month, Rhaenyra and Criston "broke up" when they just arrived the ship so even if they keep having sex till then she would still have an enite month of pregnancy. After that they started the preparation of the wedding, which is a royal wedding it isn't made in a week or less, it takes time, in there we also saw families from all the 7 kingdoms, as the Lannisters, the Hightowers, etc, they can't get to kingslanding in a few days neither and the velaryons also needed an entire month to go there since they didn't go when Rhaenyra and Viserys went, also the whole Velaryon family was there meaning majority went in ships (not in dragons as Rhaenys or Laenor which is faster) so it took a month for them. So at the very least she had 3 months of pregnancy, most likely four, she wouldn't look that skinny in her wedding if that was the case. About the rest, yeah, premature babies were common back then but I really hope you know premature babies are really tiny and unhealthy, it's way more difficult for them to live, so you would know that if Rhaenyra gave birth a perfectly big and healthy son with just 5 or 6 months of pregnancy it would have been obvious it wasn't Laenor and it's not possible Jace looked as a premature baby of 5/6 months of pregnancy when she was pregnant 9 months, it's also not possible for her to be pregnant less than that bc then she would have gave birth like 3/4 months after her wedding, it wouldn't make any sense. In the other hand Rhaenyra mentioned that she tried to have sex with Laenor to have a heir at the very start of their marriage, meaning no, you're wrong to say they took a while to start trying or that they tried just for the second while she already was pregnant from the first one when they married. You just don't understand the thing about the months bc, just as you said, you believe there wasn't any mention of time jump between the sex and the wedding or even between their break up and the wedding, when in reality there's mentions of it that you just don't remember.
Honestly based on baby Halaena in both ep 4 and 5, the timeline should work. BUT I just wanna say they’re really bad with timelines in this show and you shouldn’t be overly reliant on it. Let me tell you why. So after the 10 year time jump, clearly both Aemond and Jace can’t be more than 10, but really 9. And Luke compared to them looks 5-6. BUT in ep 10 it’s revealed that he’s supposed to be 14, which if you do the math…means he was supposed to be 8 after the fist time jump. Now that’s just super silly to me, bc there’s NO WAY there’s supposed to be a 1 year difference b/w Jace and Luke when you look at them as kids. And recently when asked about the age of Aemond’s character in ep 8, Condal gave a range I think of b/w 17-25…? Like why are you giving a range? You should know the age of these characters
I really hated the 10 ur time jump because we didn't get to see what happened with her a criston cole and I was actually thinking she was gonna be pregnant by him. Then the next episode was 10 yrs later and Sir Harwin was there and she had all these kids supposedly by Harwin. I've always wondered if her oldest Jacerys was Criston Coles
But this theory makes no sense if #1) episode 6 takes place 10 years after the wedding (ending of episode 5), and #2) jace is about 7 years old in epi 6. Cole and her wouldn’t have been together in those 3 years, so he couldn’t be jace’s father.
1) A cast director confirmed on insta that Aemond was around 12 after the time jump so he was already born in episode 5 when rhae and cole were still close & not broken up until near the wedding 2)Jace is around 9 or 10, the actor playing him is even 14 they would never cast a child that old to play a 7 year old. Lucerys is about 6 or 7 plus after the next time jump which is like 6 years those boys look like teens, if they were 7 and 5 they would still be kids
@@samirah1240 well the show runner said the oldest of both sides are between 17 to 22, meaning jace, Helena, aegon and aemond are between those ages, jace is 7 in the books, ( he said this in the after the episode 8)
@@cristianbejarano2000 NOW they are between 17 and 22. But after the first time jump which was 10 years after Rhaenyras wedding in episode 6, Aemond was 12 and Jace 10/9
@@samirah1240 That’s impossible because it was already confirmed the sex scene with Viserys and Alicent was the conception of Aemond so he has to be 10 in the time skip meaning Jace has to be 7/6. Also there’s no way their between 17-21 if Luke and the twins were about 6-7 before the final time jump which is 6 years. They would at most be 13 years old
it doesn't fit timewise. Jace would be ten at the time of ep. 6 but is seven. Also, Rhaenyra later said she and Laenor tried to conceive kids but couldn't, implying that only after she was having bastard children in order to have children at all
@@bibimbap5917 the marriage was too fast and she was not showing....But yes,there are some things not matching....but allover there are also too many clues towards this theory
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
Some people doesn't notice Rhaenyra got married at the very least 4 months after she had sex with Cole or pretend she would be that skinny in her wedding with 4 months of pregnancy and that no one would suspect it wasn't Leanor's kid when she had a healthy son with "just five months" of pregnancy lmao
@@Movies123Online well the show runner said the oldest of both sides are between 17 to 22, meaning jace, Helena, aegon and aemond are between those ages, jace is 7 in the books, ( he said this in the after the episode 8)
@@Movies123Online he had to be around ten since Lucerys was confirmed fourteen in the finale. This means luce was eight in episode 6 and there isn't enough ground to completely rule out Cole being Jace's father
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
I think the timeline is mixed up, but honestly it would have been a good twist to make Jace, Cole’s son. Imagine harboring all that hate & bitterness ( or to mention being an incel) when your som would have sat the Iron Throne after his mother. 😩
I think Rhaenyra wasn't stupid enough to just let desires take over and have a child with someone with dark hair when she could've easily gotten anyone. I think Rhae got to know about the pregnancy after getting married and after giving birth to Jace in order to protect him she decided that her other children should also look like him to protect him.
What show are you people watching? There's no way this happened. She drank the damn Moon Tea and a little time went by before she married Laenor and before she got pregnant by Harwin. HARWIN.
It can't be Criston's bc the times don't fit, if Rhaenyra isn't stupid as you say then there's no way she didn't drink that tea, bc she did and she just had sex again bc she needed heirs and she already proved it didn't work with Laenor
based on the show, the time jump/skip from teen rhaenyra (ep 5) to adult rhaenyra(ep 6) is 10 years. if they did, jacaerys would be 10 years old. But... others also stated that rhaenyra (she also confide to daemon) n leanor did try for (aleast) a year for child but failed. moreover, when teen rhaenyra n cole do the deed, its was atleast a few months(give or take 2-6 months) before the royal wedding. so theoretically (for the show atleast) jacaerys/jace velaryon could not be cole's bastard as jace is around 9 or 8 years old when his baby brother joffry was born(start of ep 6)
No. Laenor and Rhaenyra both said they tried to sleep together multiple times but was never able to get pregnant. Alluding that when they first married she wasn't sleeping with anyone else in order to produce a "true" child of them two.
If they decided to pull that up and go on another direction from the book, this would be such an interesting switch. I think it’ll make so much sense in the series, regardless of the book *which btw is a must read*
It would distract from the main story. It takes an entire 10 episodes just to see why the war started. It didn't even start yet! This theory would just cause more noise in the mix much like GOT took forever to start battling the white walkers and we rushed through at least a couple of seasons for that fight. NO THANKS. The theory doesn't fit the story nor the characters and would risk screwing up the main story
Nah. She tells Daemon that her and Laenor tried for a while after they got married with no success. If she was already pregnant they wouldn't have been trying for so long. I think that the point of showing the tea delivered was that Viserys didn't believe her and thought she did In fact sleep with Daemon. Or maybe that it was from Alicent. She definitely drank it. She used to say she didn't want to be a bed ridden mother. She certainly didn't want to be a mother out of wedlock with a knight
Are people really paying that little attention? She was with Criston once and then years later she was with Harwin and that's when he started fathering her children.
@@nellieshoals according to multiple sources online there's a 10-year time jump and when we first see Jace he is 7 years old. Was she pregnant for 3 years you think? Yeah, I guess that's a thing that happens. People really out here thinking that Ser Criston and Alicent can't count to 9? He would have no clue that kid was his if it actually was which it's not? LOL "Jacaerys Velaryon is portrayed in episode six by Leo Hart. The firstborn of Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen, his birth causes some to believe that his father is not Ser Laenor. With his mother's infidelity seen as a betrayal of House Targaryen, Jacaerys begins to feel the weight of his own upbringing at a young age, being only about seven years old in his first appearance in the series."
Cole is Dornish okay. Remember Oberyn and Sand Snakes? So if we take the fact that Velarion boys don't look like Leanor Velarion as a proof that they aren't his children ( skin and hair color in the show, nose in the books) , shouldn't like Jaecerys look a bit Dornish following that logic ?
All I can say is, creative liberties can be taken and casting choice are deliberate. They won’t cast someone who looks like Criston if that doesn’t mean anything. Lucerys’ actor is well casted and looks like he could really be Harwin’s son. Also, this show is all about tragedy and that’s a tragedy on its own so personally, I won’t rule it out. It makes for a delicious drama, especially for someone so self-righteous as Criston.
Good theory but the times don’t add up. Its about 20 years later with the time skip. If Cole fathered Jace, Jace would have been in his 20s and he is still shown to be a young kid.
Actually I root for this since it would be more dramatic, also teenage jacerys hair is straight unlike his younger brother. It can be a possibility lol.
No they r both from Strong's bc If It was Christian's then she would've been preggo way b4 she got married.....she says he is Targaryen bc she didn't want to lie or admit Strong is his father.....
"At least in the show." You know the book is a 3rd party account of what happened right? Like a history written after the fact. According to the author the show is what really happened.
I’ve also been saying this. I do believe Jace is Cole’s. These are some theories I’ve seen. We didn’t see her drink the tea. I believe if she did drink the tea, she would be admitting she was no longer a virgin. The actor that plays Jace has curly hair, why wear a wig if he is Harwin’s kid. Rhae and Laenor would keep the secret to protect Cole and Laenor’s sexuality.
It takes time to plan a royal wedding. Time enough that Rhaenyra had wedding guests from places like Casterly Rock and Oldtown. It’s implied in episode 7 that after the wedding, Rhaenyra and Laenor tried to conceive a child together long enough for Rhaenyra to be certain the attempts were unsuccessful and turn to Harwin Strong. So unless the show was being sneaky and their pregnancy attempts happened after Jacaerys was born suspiciously early into their marriage, there really isn’t time for him to be Coles son.
I feel like people look for reason to not be the son of Cole just cause they don’t like him. But storytelling wise it’s better for the show especially since Strong ☠️
@@IXthKingz what i don't understand is why would Harwin treat jacerys like his own blood if he was not the real father? And if Rhaenyra were showing right after the wedding Criston and Alicent would know right away who's kid that is.
@@bibimbap5917 He treated him how he was supposed to be treated. He loved his mom dearly and was not the type to neglect him but take care of luke especially since cole was doing nothing anyway. Just like when luke died, daemon took revenge for his murder and also sayin it was “a son for a son” and took care of his stepkids with rhae cuz they loved eachother. Also, Alicent heard of the moon tea brought to her, she likely thinks she absoulutely took it
We see her months after sleeping with him while she’s meeting suitors. She’s showing no signs of pregnancy. Why not mention that? It’s almost like you’re leaving out info to make your theory appear stronger
What you on about? She was almost right away betrothed to Laenor after she slept with Criston. No more “suitor” visits at that point. When she was merting the suitors she didn’t even sleep with Cole.Also they broke up close to the wedding when she and Laenor already clarified marriage things and met too
Eh no we don’t lol. She married laenor straight after it, hence him going mad and beating Joffrey to death, they had literally just done it, then admitted it to alicent, then it was the wedding
They arranged a marriage with Laenor, invited nobles from all of Westeros and had the marriage. Rhaenyra did not show she was expecting during the marriage and it would have been maybe 6 months with all arrangements and travel.
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10 after the first jump, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
Some people doesn't notice Rhaenyra got married at the very least 4 months after she had sex with Cole or pretend she would be that skinny in her wedding with 4 months of pregnancy and that no one would suspect it wasn't Leanor's kid when she had a healthy son with "just five months" of pregnancy lmao
@@parkeydee I don't need to read the book bc I'm talking about the show, the show and the book are two different and separate things. In the show Jace is confirmed a little older than in the book but that doesn't matter since the times still don't fit for him to be Criston's kid.
No. This theory serves no purpose and would be more of an unnecessary distraction to the main story which is between the greens and blacks. Cole is a side character much like the rest of the knights and wouldn't serve any benefit to the main story other than prepping or helping the greens boys
I think he is in the show. The hair is similar. The skin tone is similar. Rhaenyra explicitly dodged Jace’s questioning twice. He knows what’s at stake and is her heir. Why not tell him what he already suspects if it’s true? Because it isn’t. Harwin isn’t his father. Criston is.
@@daemontarg000 Jaces mother is whiter than aryans🤣of course Jace is gonna be lighter than Cole ( plus Cole has a slight tan and olive tone not outright light brown or sum). But regardless Jace is still darker than his mom. Jace older version has brown eyes and hair, Coles nose and lip shape, Coles facial expressions and face shape
If it's true I can't wait to see the look on Ser Crispin's face when he finds it out. He basically trained Aemond to kill his son.
Crispin will never find out like it's literally impossible for him to find out
@@matrixmdog maybe Rhae tells him to try to get him on her side.Or Rhae tells someone and that someone tells Criston
Aemond killed Luke not Jace? Do your research mate
Crispin will not change sides
Criston was training Aemond for tourneys and the one that died was Luke and it was an accident.
The timeline doesn’t add up. Too much time passes between their time together and her wedding to Laenor. It would have been obvious if she was pregnant. Besides, Rhaenyra tells Daemon that in the first years of her marriage to Laenor they tried to have biological children and failed. It’s after that she started her affair with Harwyn and had kids.
Which is still odd. I mean, surely if they couldn't have kids, tell their families and arrange either another Velaryon man to marry her or something.
@@thalmoragent9344 Infertility (even if that wasn't necessarily their problem) at that time was seen as something very bad, they would not admit that they couldn't have children
@@kenjako
Perhaps. Then yeah, last option is to have another Velaryon man sire children with Rhaenyra, and Laenor raise them as their uncle or brother or something (but publicly as their father)
This would've been the best course of action if they'd spoken at all with their immediate families about the scenario, whether cause he's infertile or cause he's Homosexual.
People like Vaemond wouldn't be as pissed as he was, and Alicent would've understood the situation at hand. Either way, they'd be true Velaryons and also look the part as well
Exactly
@@thalmoragent9344 the problem with that idea is that apart from Vaemond and Corlys himself, I think there were no other male velaryons. Also Allicent was upset about Rhaenyra lying to her, she would have just used that information to secure the throne for Aegon. Besides the main issue with Vaemond was his ambition and his will to have "true" velaryons in charge was second to that. Not once did he consider that Laenor himself accepted the three boys as his trueborn sons regardless of whether they were bastards or not, he treated them fairly as he would his true sons, Then there was the matter or Corlys who knew of their parenthood and still saw them as his grandsons and as a part of Laenor's line. Vaemond's entire argument was that since they weren't of velaryon blood they were not eligible to be heirs of driftmark and yet not once did he consider Lena's line, Corlys was hellbent on crowning Rhaenys, Rhaenys herself wouldn't have minded and even Viserys named his daughter as heir so clearly no one would mind if Lena's daughters inherited driftmark, but his intent was simply on having himself to be in charge. And also according to their religion homosexuality was a big taboo, Laenor and his parents along with his wife would have probably been disgraced.
Sir Crispy Creme really out here trying to kill his own son 🤣
times don't fot for him to be
@@jrlombardi5251 it would
*Crispin
@@nellieshoals Crispin Creme then 😂
@@raf3765 🤭🤣
He has Ser Crispy’s personality for sure, and the casting is so great I think he even looks like him. I hope he gets to find out.
I thought so too at first, from the hair type (Harwin's were curly, and only Luke and Joffrey are curly) but then, they did that voyage to meet with Corlys for betrothal between Laenor and Rhaenyra after Cole-Rhaenyra spent the night. The arrangement of the Velaryon-Targaryen wedding would've taken at least a few months after that betrothal. If she were already pregnant, she would be showing pretty well during the wedding party. Plus the age does not seem to fit pretty well.
Orrrr they made love more than once after the first time they did it and the betrothal. Ser Crispy wouldn't be asking to elope if he knew he was just a one-night stand.
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
@@randmoe4225 He was asking to elope because he saw it as the only way to fix his honor after Rhaenyra pressured him into breaking his vow of celibacy. Him asking her to elope had nothing to do with love.
@@uriel7395 yeah in his eyes he feels like he was assaulted. you can't really say no to the princess. For him it's more like a shot gun wedding thing. Making things right
You realize these are unrelated actors, right?
My main support for this is that the actor playing the older Jacaerys not only has similar facial structure to Fabien Frankel, but he also has naturally curly hair and is wearing a wig in the show. I don't see why they wouldn't let him keep his natural curly hair if he were actually Harwin Strong's son. The timelines might not make complete sense, but I don't see the need for the horrible Carol Brady wig otherwise. There is a scene in episode eight in the training yard, where they deliberately pan from Jace's face to Criston's and back. They look A LOT alike.
In the episode 8, the new Jacaerys clearly looks like a mini Criston
Just look at his angry face he putted when Vaemond call them bastards
The same mad face of Sir Crispin when he murdered Joffrey
bro wtf
Literally Criston Jr.
That’s interesting. I’ve never connected the anger thing but holy shit, his anger flows in the same vein as Criston’s. For both of them, there’s just this “switch” that flips and they just get into that mode.
"I dare you say that again" was probably a wink at him being just like his father Harwyn Strong.
@@automaticwriting4220 Criston is one of those aprensive guys who look very calm and normal but in reallity they are explosive and violent beasts
And i think Jacaerys is a bit like this too but well controlled like when he almost fight with Aegon in the dinner
Rhaenyra married Leanir in 114AC and guess when Jacaerys was born? Yes,in 114AC. So,I think the timing dilemma was solved.
That would be a pretty major twist, and I wonder if the showrunners would actually work that in
If I remember correctly, in books she slept with Hardin Strong instead of Cole that night and it was implied she didn’t drink the tea which led to her being pregnant with Jace. So even if the show changed it to Cole instead then it could be true that Cole is Jace’s dad
Do we know why she wouldn't want to drink the tea? Surely, a pregnancy would be a huge problem for her.
@@yourcommentmakesmecomment.3423 I thought that maybe she wouldn’t have drank the tea because it would have been proof that she wasn’t a virgin anymore before marriage which basically made a noble woman worthless back then
@@phoebe8086 That makes sense. Personally, I do not trust those masters providing the tea. They are most likely in someones pocket and report on the Princess. Although, it's a gamble to pretend you don't need the tea and pray you don't get pregnant!! 😬
@@yourcommentmakesmecomment.3423 I don't trust the maesters either, especially when watching them interact with Viserys. I agree with them most likely being Otto or even someone else's spy since Larys told Alicent that he heard about the tea being delivered to Rhanerya. It was certainly a gamble!
The book only speculates on all of this, there is no specific night in question, and it's all just rumor. There was no tea mentioned at all, that's is a100% a show creation.
Well they were on the ship when he asked her to runaway together.
That is interesting, Because my father told me I bet you’re the first kid is Cole’s.. ha if my 90 year old father is right.. I will give him 90 bucks ❤
It can't be Cole bc of the times, they just slept together once and motnhs before of the wedding meaning she should have a noticeable pregnancy by then which isn't the case
@@jrlombardi5251 they probably slept together more than once, they were very close in episode 5 until joffrey death. The wedding takes place after that, jacerys was born in that year.
@@muqki2178 no. They broke it off in the ship and she would've shown signs of pregnancy by the time it was the wedding
@@aperkins07 no you’re wrong
Criston cole is called the king maker
Umm as someone who read the book. No.
@@seniprime6693Yes he's called Kingmaker because he crowned Aegon.
I love how everyone changed Crispin's name to be Crispin Cole. 💀😂😂
I mean rhaenyra has straight hair why does harwin boys both have to have curly hair? 🤔
Because the seed are STRONG
Seed is in fact strong. Even in real life the seed is strong.
in fact their targaryen blood can be predominant in some aspects, or they wouldn't be able to ride dragons
OMG!! With the MANY Twists & Turns within the storyline, y'all are Concerned about Hair Texture?!?! Obviously, y'all Don't know that in the DNA, genes can Reach Back GENERATIONS- from ALL SIDES!!
Seriously, Y'all are making my head Hurt... & THAT'S NOT in the Storylines!!
Curly Hair...
What a HOTT MESS.🤦🏻♀️🤦🏼♂️
Lucerys is confirmed fourteen in the last episode, this means he was eight after the ten year time jump and Jace had to be around ten. So we can't completely rule out Cole theory. The writers did this on purpose. They could have easily made them one year younger if they didn't want debates or fan theories
The time with the wedding still doesn't fit. She married Laenor a couple months after she had sex with Cole and no one would believe it was Laenor's if she had a perfectly healthy son so much time before of the actual time period of pregnancy, we know that didn't happen. Rhaenyra also confirmed that when she just got married to Laenor they tried it but didn't get it so she had to go to someone else to get pregnant bc she needed heirs, she wouldn't be saying that if she was already pregnant by that point and there's no way she couldn't notice she already was bc she can't be pregnant for 11 months.
@@jrlombardi5251 yes older jace looks more like Harwin. He has zero resemblance to Criston. Criston and Alicent would obviously know it's his child if Rhaenyra gave birth Seven or eight months after her marriage. But i feel like the writers kept some mystery around his age to get people talking.
@@bibimbap5917 She wouldn't have gave birth just seven or eight months later, her wedding was at the very least 4 months after she had sex with Criston, meaning she would have had Jace just 5 months after her wedding which would have made everyone see he was a bastard and would contradict all what Rhaenyra said about her first pregnancy
@@jrlombardi5251 dude I'm agreeing with you, I'm saying that IF Jace is actually Criston's son, and even if there wasn't any considerable time gap between the wedding and her affair with Cole,, Alicent and Cole would know right away who the real father is. So there needs no revelation to Criston or no shock factor because he already knows. Making Jace Criston's son therefore adds nothing to the story.
@@bibimbap5917 I know lmao, I just corrected something you said wrong in the middle of the comment that I know was saying the same as me, you just had some months wrong and I told you thta, never said you were against me
And now he has curly hair and looks like a Strong
I said this and was called crazy 🤷🏽♀️
Bc times don't fit at all
you’re crazy
"and she is a wwhhooorrreeee." - last said by Mr. 'You can keep your tongue.'
Wow because she had sex with a few people? Hmm. It’s not like she was doing her husband. Also Rhae was being very understanding and protective of Laenor of his sexuality…
@@Kikithewildling girl only slept with 3 men in her entire life, and these incels still be calling her a whore for it
@@Kikithewildling basically you can have sex freely with FEW people outside your marriage and it's fine🙂
@@Kikithewildling This show is based on the European Medieval Era. Modern standards don’t apply to it.
The show has already gone extremely soft in sex scenes and deaths compared to Game of Thrones because of “modern morality” and the “cancel culture” of the real world. What do you think it would have happened if Leanor publicly acknowledged his homosexuality or if Rhaenyra recognized she had sexual relationships with Harwin Strong while being married to Leanor Velaryon? Please stop ruining the show and its magic.
@@AnImperialGod it's understandable if people in the story think she's a whore, but for a moderm audience to agree is strange, we're supposed to be critical of the backwards thinking not go with it
The 18 yr old jacerys has straight hair but he doesnt show resemblance to Cole
Jacearys isn't 18, he is 15
Are we looking at the same actor? He TOTALLY looks like a paler version of Fabien Frankel. Same face shape, same nose, similar eyes...
I could’ve sworn she was given the tea after that night! Alicent found out and it was confirmed that she was lied to 🤔
Technically, that was just Larys whispering in her ear.
But the information was fact regardless of who gave it to her. Larys just told her. He had nothing to do with the fact Rhaeynra actually lied.
Ok so now I’m confused, I don’t know if the show runner is talking out his ass like the ones in game of thrones but he said in the after the episode that the oldest from the both sides age range from 17 to 21 Deamon’s girls, jace, aemond, Helena and aegon, which would make Deamon’s daughters, jace and aemond about the same age which I thought aemond would be older unless they aged him down
Jace can't be 17, before he was even born we had a 10 years skip and then a 6 years one, meaning he can be as much 15 years old bc of the time skip and the time of pregnancy and that just if Rahenyra got pregnant just after ep 5 (since she couldn't before by Criston or she would have had a noticeable pregnancy in her wedding)
@@jrlombardi5251 I’m with you there and was confused to when the show runner said that, but also the time line is weird, I know this only in the books but leanor dies couple months after leana and then rhaeyna and deamon marry half a year later after his death and they still thought that was to soon but in the show this seems to happen in a span of a month perhaps, plus the 6 year time skip is from when corlys left his wife for war, Doubt he left her right after all this happen, time must’ve passed after their childrens deat, plus preparing for war, am I reaching pretty far for this theory, yes I am, this would only confuse people more because why say a time skip if it’s not the right amount of time from the last episode, but Luke was confirmed to be 14 so jace must’ve been 15, 16, maybe 17 if I’m right, but that’s what the showrunner said about the age ranges of the older kids
@@jrlombardi5251 I know he probably just messed what he was saying at the after the episode probably just meant Alicents kids, but yeah what you said makes more sense, leanor and her trying for trying before she got with harwin time mustive passed, it was just a theory, one I had to really reach for
@@cristianbejarano2000 Corlys actually confirmed he left when he lost it all, meaning the death of their children, so even if for you it doesn't seem normal for him to leave right after Leanor's death, that's the case since that's the reason why he left in the first place. There's still no way that Jace can be 16 or 17, even with the timeline of the book (which isn't the same than the show's, since there it goes faster) so the showrunner made a mistake there.
The math isn't mathing 🤔😂
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
People likes to believe Rhaenyra was several months pregnant in her wedding but that magically no one noticed or that they did multiple travels from kingslanding to driftmark and prepared a royal wedding in like a week lmao
@@jrlombardi5251 A month or two would be enough at the orders of the king. Also, cole and rhaenyra broke up during the trip back from driftmark when her marriage and all were already established and discussed. They could have well continued the relationship up until than and even if not, she could still be early in the pregnancy. You only show at like 3, 4 months when pregnant with the first most times. Some don’t even up to the 5th month much
@@samirah1240 the math wouldn't work towards the wedding. People would've known when she delivered the baby and rumors would've spread both in the family and realm. If the family didn't think it made sense that early on, they wouldn't suspect Harwin. Cole wouldn't be calling out Harwin, but probably reach back out to Rhaenyra if there was any possibility the boy was his as that WAS his character. Besides, theory doesn't fit the main story nor characters we've seen
that's what I'm saying just maybe that's his son. I honestly hope it is because that would be a big plot twist.
Times don't fit
It wouldn't be much of a plot twist because it wouldn't serve the main story. It would be more of a distraction
@@jrlombardi5251 times do fit
@@marcosmc3709 they do not
@@jrlombardi5251 they do
Lol she gonna come out in westeros maury trying to look for baby daddy
Omg I thought abt that bc it will only add more drama to the show lol
Is it addressed in the book? If not, I wonder if George Martin would mind too much if the show takes that liberty. It's kind of a big one but if it doesn't interfere too much with the story, maybe we'll get to see it play out🤔 It's certainly an interesting theory!
Actually she had a special tea after that night, that's what made Alison's started hating Rheanera
It can't be coles the timeliness doesn't fit she would have been showing signs of being pregnant way to early after being married.
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits the 10 year gap in ep 6. She might have been around a month preggo at the wedding than, and used the excuse that the baby was born a month or two premature, which was not uncommon during that time
@@samirah1240 The time with the wedding still doesn't fit. She married Laenor a couple months after she had sex with Cole and no one would believe it was Laenor's if she had a perfectly healthy son so much time before of the actual time period of pregnancy, we know that didn't happen. Rhaenyra also confirmed that when she just got married to Laenor they tried it but didn't get it so she had to go to someone else to get pregnant bc she needed heirs, she wouldn't be saying that if she was already pregnant by that point and there's no way she couldn't notice she already was bc she can't be pregnant for 11 months.
@@jrlombardi5251 Where is it stated she married him a couple months afte? Could well be one month. They broke up in the middle of episode 5, could have well had sex up until that point. And premature babies back than were common, aswell as getting pregnant soon after the wedding.Also, Laenor was grieving Joffrey ,they likely didn’t try for a while and, could have well tried to have his son after Jace to secure her claim better and potencially not have ppl on her back talking about how she had not given him any legitimate son. Also, the second was supposed to inherit driftmark anyway, as the first was the crown prince, not to mention it was risky to onlyhave one kid in that time and universe, Rhaenyras had 6 kids yet only 2 survived adulthood. Viserys and Aemma had many pregnancies and stillbirths,yet only one made it. Viserys and Daemon had a brother Aegon, that also died and so on. And also where tf did you get 11 months from? no specific time jump in mentioned between cole and rhaes affair/s and the wedding
@@samirah1240 It was stated in episode 5, it was said that it took Viserys and Rhaenyra an entire month to get to driftmark and there they just offered the marriage to Corlys and Rhaenyra talked with Laenor, nothing more, after that we saw them coming back to kingslanding in the ship so that's another month, Rhaenyra and Criston "broke up" when they just arrived the ship so even if they keep having sex till then she would still have an enite month of pregnancy. After that they started the preparation of the wedding, which is a royal wedding it isn't made in a week or less, it takes time, in there we also saw families from all the 7 kingdoms, as the Lannisters, the Hightowers, etc, they can't get to kingslanding in a few days neither and the velaryons also needed an entire month to go there since they didn't go when Rhaenyra and Viserys went, also the whole Velaryon family was there meaning majority went in ships (not in dragons as Rhaenys or Laenor which is faster) so it took a month for them. So at the very least she had 3 months of pregnancy, most likely four, she wouldn't look that skinny in her wedding if that was the case.
About the rest, yeah, premature babies were common back then but I really hope you know premature babies are really tiny and unhealthy, it's way more difficult for them to live, so you would know that if Rhaenyra gave birth a perfectly big and healthy son with just 5 or 6 months of pregnancy it would have been obvious it wasn't Laenor and it's not possible Jace looked as a premature baby of 5/6 months of pregnancy when she was pregnant 9 months, it's also not possible for her to be pregnant less than that bc then she would have gave birth like 3/4 months after her wedding, it wouldn't make any sense. In the other hand Rhaenyra mentioned that she tried to have sex with Laenor to have a heir at the very start of their marriage, meaning no, you're wrong to say they took a while to start trying or that they tried just for the second while she already was pregnant from the first one when they married.
You just don't understand the thing about the months bc, just as you said, you believe there wasn't any mention of time jump between the sex and the wedding or even between their break up and the wedding, when in reality there's mentions of it that you just don't remember.
Honestly based on baby Halaena in both ep 4 and 5, the timeline should work. BUT I just wanna say they’re really bad with timelines in this show and you shouldn’t be overly reliant on it. Let me tell you why.
So after the 10 year time jump, clearly both Aemond and Jace can’t be more than 10, but really 9. And Luke compared to them looks 5-6. BUT in ep 10 it’s revealed that he’s supposed to be 14, which if you do the math…means he was supposed to be 8 after the fist time jump.
Now that’s just super silly to me, bc there’s NO WAY there’s supposed to be a 1 year difference b/w Jace and Luke when you look at them as kids.
And recently when asked about the age of Aemond’s character in ep 8, Condal gave a range I think of b/w 17-25…? Like why are you giving a range? You should know the age of these characters
This will be great Drama if it's revealed later...
Man they did harwin dirty he was said to be one of the strongest contender for king's knightguard and they killed him through fucking fire
I really hated the 10 ur time jump because we didn't get to see what happened with her a criston cole and I was actually thinking she was gonna be pregnant by him. Then the next episode was 10 yrs later and Sir Harwin was there and she had all these kids supposedly by Harwin. I've always wondered if her oldest Jacerys was Criston Coles
She had the tea
That'd be such a neat plot twist for the storyline imo.
But this theory makes no sense if #1) episode 6 takes place 10 years after the wedding (ending of episode 5), and #2) jace is about 7 years old in epi 6. Cole and her wouldn’t have been together in those 3 years, so he couldn’t be jace’s father.
Right
1) A cast director confirmed on insta that Aemond was around 12 after the time jump so he was already born in episode 5 when rhae and cole were still close & not broken up until near the wedding 2)Jace is around 9 or 10, the actor playing him is even 14 they would never cast a child that old to play a 7 year old. Lucerys is about 6 or 7 plus after the next time jump which is like 6 years those boys look like teens, if they were 7 and 5 they would still be kids
@@samirah1240 well the show runner said the oldest of both sides are between 17 to 22, meaning jace, Helena, aegon and aemond are between those ages, jace is 7 in the books, ( he said this in the after the episode 8)
@@cristianbejarano2000 NOW they are between 17 and 22. But after the first time jump which was 10 years after Rhaenyras wedding in episode 6, Aemond was 12 and Jace 10/9
@@samirah1240 That’s impossible because it was already confirmed the sex scene with Viserys and Alicent was the conception of Aemond so he has to be 10 in the time skip meaning Jace has to be 7/6. Also there’s no way their between 17-21 if Luke and the twins were about 6-7 before the final time jump which is 6 years. They would at most be 13 years old
it doesn't fit timewise. Jace would be ten at the time of ep. 6 but is seven. Also, Rhaenyra later said she and Laenor tried to conceive kids but couldn't, implying that only after she was having bastard children in order to have children at all
In episode 8 all of the children except Joffrey are said to be 17-21. According to showrunners. Which doesn’t match up to the books timeline.
Exactly
Yes,she said that she and Laenor tried to have own kids but she did not say when they tried? Right away after marriage or after Jace was born?
@@AmethystEyes but Lucerys is confirmed to be fourteen in episode 10. So the showrunners are just making up shit
@@bibimbap5917 the marriage was too fast and she was not showing....But yes,there are some things not matching....but allover there are also too many clues towards this theory
It could be but we may find out in the next season
They hooked up once and I don’t think the timelines match up lol
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
Some people doesn't notice Rhaenyra got married at the very least 4 months after she had sex with Cole or pretend she would be that skinny in her wedding with 4 months of pregnancy and that no one would suspect it wasn't Leanor's kid when she had a healthy son with "just five months" of pregnancy lmao
@@jrlombardi5251 your wrong
@@marcosmc3709 nope
What's a timeline on this? It's been 10 years right but how old is jace in this episode? That would sort of... kind of prove it.
When I google it, it’s said he’s about 7 years old in episode 6. I don’t know how strong those sources are.
@@Movies123Online Is that a play on the name Strong?
@@Movies123Online well the show runner said the oldest of both sides are between 17 to 22, meaning jace, Helena, aegon and aemond are between those ages, jace is 7 in the books, ( he said this in the after the episode 8)
@@Movies123Online he had to be around ten since Lucerys was confirmed fourteen in the finale. This means luce was eight in episode 6 and there isn't enough ground to completely rule out Cole being Jace's father
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
They never showed her drinking the tea or discarding it, but it was seemingly implied she drank it.
I think the timeline is mixed up, but honestly it would have been a good twist to make Jace, Cole’s son. Imagine harboring all that hate & bitterness ( or to mention being an incel) when your som would have sat the Iron Throne after his mother. 😩
I think Rhaenyra wasn't stupid enough to just let desires take over and have a child with someone with dark hair when she could've easily gotten anyone. I think Rhae got to know about the pregnancy after getting married and after giving birth to Jace in order to protect him she decided that her other children should also look like him to protect him.
F**k ..! It sounds so accurate...!
What show are you people watching? There's no way this happened. She drank the damn Moon Tea and a little time went by before she married Laenor and before she got pregnant by Harwin. HARWIN.
Lol There was no Harwin until her marriage
Omg, for all we know Jace could be anyone's son... she is a - what Vaemond Velaryon said before he got 3/4 head cut off.
It can't be Criston's bc the times don't fit, if Rhaenyra isn't stupid as you say then there's no way she didn't drink that tea, bc she did and she just had sex again bc she needed heirs and she already proved it didn't work with Laenor
I noticed now that why Aemond use to call his nephews strong
I’ve always theorized this from the moment the show showed the boys. I’m actually hoping the show will prove that right. What an awesome twist! ❤️
It won't be true, bc of the times with the wedding she should be moths pregnant by then and she isn't so Jace's age and when he was born wouldn't fit
@@jrlombardi5251 Ohh…I was wondering about his age. I couldn’t figure it out due to all the jumping around in years.
No. Doesn't make any sense to do that. It would serve no purpose. Cole is a side character, nothing more
The time line does not match for Ser Criston Cole to be the father of Jaecyris!
Please someone do the math for me,if jace is the result of that one night,how old is he gonna be?
based on the show, the time jump/skip from teen rhaenyra (ep 5) to adult rhaenyra(ep 6) is 10 years. if they did, jacaerys would be 10 years old.
But...
others also stated that rhaenyra (she also confide to daemon) n leanor did try for (aleast) a year for child but failed. moreover, when teen rhaenyra n cole do the deed, its was atleast a few months(give or take 2-6 months) before the royal wedding. so theoretically (for the show atleast) jacaerys/jace velaryon could not be cole's bastard as jace is around 9 or 8 years old when his baby brother joffry was born(start of ep 6)
I thought there was a time skip between episode 4&5 so she would have been pregnant or at least somewhat in ep5.
there was not but she was deffo pregnant in episode 5
No. Laenor and Rhaenyra both said they tried to sleep together multiple times but was never able to get pregnant. Alluding that when they first married she wasn't sleeping with anyone else in order to produce a "true" child of them two.
If they decided to pull that up and go on another direction from the book, this would be such an interesting switch.
I think it’ll make so much sense in the series, regardless of the book *which btw is a must read*
the times with the wedding still wouldn't fit
It would distract from the main story. It takes an entire 10 episodes just to see why the war started. It didn't even start yet! This theory would just cause more noise in the mix much like GOT took forever to start battling the white walkers and we rushed through at least a couple of seasons for that fight. NO THANKS. The theory doesn't fit the story nor the characters and would risk screwing up the main story
Nah. She tells Daemon that her and Laenor tried for a while after they got married with no success. If she was already pregnant they wouldn't have been trying for so long.
I think that the point of showing the tea delivered was that Viserys didn't believe her and thought she did In fact sleep with Daemon. Or maybe that it was from Alicent. She definitely drank it. She used to say she didn't want to be a bed ridden mother. She certainly didn't want to be a mother out of wedlock with a knight
I really wish Rhanerya had chosen Strong as a husband when she had the choice…what a mess she made.
You know the princess was offered tea to prevent any possible conceiving of a baby.
I thought the same thing but I don't think the timeline works
Yeh.... That's very long pregnancy!!
Ops she was sleeping around? 😂
Are people really paying that little attention? She was with Criston once and then years later she was with Harwin and that's when he started fathering her children.
😂😂
@@nellieshoals according to multiple sources online there's a 10-year time jump and when we first see Jace he is 7 years old. Was she pregnant for 3 years you think? Yeah, I guess that's a thing that happens.
People really out here thinking that Ser Criston and Alicent can't count to 9? He would have no clue that kid was his if it actually was which it's not? LOL
"Jacaerys Velaryon is portrayed in episode six by Leo Hart. The firstborn of Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen, his birth causes some to believe that his father is not Ser Laenor. With his mother's infidelity seen as a betrayal of House Targaryen, Jacaerys begins to feel the weight of his own upbringing at a young age, being only about seven years old in his first appearance in the series."
VERY INTERESTING
Cole is Dornish okay. Remember Oberyn and Sand Snakes? So if we take the fact that Velarion boys don't look like Leanor Velarion as a proof that they aren't his children ( skin and hair color in the show, nose in the books) , shouldn't like Jaecerys look a bit Dornish following that logic ?
Jacaerys looked more like a Targaryen with dark hair, so it doesn't matter if he looked Dornish or not. He has a Targ blood.
Remember the Tea
She was married a year after that so that would be amazing. It says it on the show. Pay attention.
All I can say is, creative liberties can be taken and casting choice are deliberate. They won’t cast someone who looks like Criston if that doesn’t mean anything. Lucerys’ actor is well casted and looks like he could really be Harwin’s son.
Also, this show is all about tragedy and that’s a tragedy on its own so personally, I won’t rule it out. It makes for a delicious drama, especially for someone so self-righteous as Criston.
Good theory but the times don’t add up. Its about 20 years later with the time skip. If Cole fathered Jace, Jace would have been in his 20s and he is still shown to be a young kid.
16 years actually. and the actor that plays him is 18
@@KmG245G Oh right, but I still don't think he's cole's kid
doubtful. he’s younger than aemond.
Does the timeline add up?
Nah...too obvious with a worthless shock factor.
Actually I root for this since it would be more dramatic, also teenage jacerys hair is straight unlike his younger brother. It can be a possibility lol.
But times don't fit
No they r both from Strong's bc If It was Christian's then she would've been preggo way b4 she got married.....she says he is Targaryen bc she didn't want to lie or admit Strong is his father.....
That timeline would make 0 sense.
Oh, so the tea is a plan b. I was wondering what it was and why it was so concerning
"At least in the show." You know the book is a 3rd party account of what happened right? Like a history written after the fact. According to the author the show is what really happened.
I’ve also been saying this. I do believe Jace is Cole’s.
These are some theories I’ve seen.
We didn’t see her drink the tea. I believe if she did drink the tea, she would be admitting she was no longer a virgin.
The actor that plays Jace has curly hair, why wear a wig if he is Harwin’s kid.
Rhae and Laenor would keep the secret to protect Cole and Laenor’s sexuality.
It takes time to plan a royal wedding. Time enough that Rhaenyra had wedding guests from places like Casterly Rock and Oldtown.
It’s implied in episode 7 that after the wedding, Rhaenyra and Laenor tried to conceive a child together long enough for Rhaenyra to be certain the attempts were unsuccessful and turn to Harwin Strong.
So unless the show was being sneaky and their pregnancy attempts happened after Jacaerys was born suspiciously early into their marriage, there really isn’t time for him to be Coles son.
I feel like people look for reason to not be the son of Cole just cause they don’t like him. But storytelling wise it’s better for the show especially since Strong ☠️
@Old time Homesickness nah, it would be illogical, not correct timeline and overly dramatic writing, just like GoT se08
@@IXthKingz what i don't understand is why would Harwin treat jacerys like his own blood if he was not the real father? And if Rhaenyra were showing right after the wedding Criston and Alicent would know right away who's kid that is.
@@bibimbap5917 He treated him how he was supposed to be treated. He loved his mom dearly and was not the type to neglect him but take care of luke especially since cole was doing nothing anyway. Just like when luke died, daemon took revenge for his murder and also sayin it was “a son for a son” and took care of his stepkids with rhae cuz they loved eachother. Also, Alicent heard of the moon tea brought to her, she likely thinks she absoulutely took it
@@IXthKingz lmao it is not better story telling wise because the main story is the war, not who's kid is who
We see her months after sleeping with him while she’s meeting suitors. She’s showing no signs of pregnancy. Why not mention that? It’s almost like you’re leaving out info to make your theory appear stronger
What you on about? She was almost right away betrothed to Laenor after she slept with Criston. No more “suitor” visits at that point. When she was merting the suitors she didn’t even sleep with Cole.Also they broke up close to the wedding when she and Laenor already clarified marriage things and met too
Eh no we don’t lol. She married laenor straight after it, hence him going mad and beating Joffrey to death, they had literally just done it, then admitted it to alicent, then it was the wedding
Those fans are silly nincompoops who does not know how long pregnancy last 🤣
That’d be cool. But jace was basically there to die and get the conflict rolling
Exactly! This theory serves no purpose to the main story and the main characters in it
Hmm Jace does resemble Criston Cole more than he does Harwin Strong, and I ain't talking about just the hair.🤔
but times don't fit
They arranged a marriage with Laenor, invited nobles from all of Westeros and had the marriage. Rhaenyra did not show she was expecting during the marriage and it would have been maybe 6 months with all arrangements and travel.
But didn't she have children years after getting married though...
It’s not unfortunately.
The fans are crazy
Teas don't work lol
What about that fu**ing tea ?
i know they said “the show” but in the book there’s absolutely no fucking way lmao
Short answer: NO.
I thought that as well
No it’s not true. It’s just all talk he is harwin strongs son read the books.
Didn't she drink the moontea???
You guys forgot Rhaenyra drank the *tea* 🍵 right? 😑😑 and .. Crispy Crispin would have known if he’s his son. He can count.
we never saw her drink the tea, we only saw she was given the tea and then the episode ended
Yes
The timeline doesn’t match
He’s not cristons. Criston made it clear he wouldn’t be a boy toy. The timeline also makes this impossible.
He can't be.... 🤔 she drank the tea her father sent to her room
They didn't show her drink it.
He would be too young
No, he is Targaryen Strong!
Plan Tea
He can’t be the show skipped 10 years and he was only 8
the age fits perfectly. Lucerys was just confirmed to be 14 last episode when he died ( look it up too) which means that he was 8 before the 6 year time jump in episode 8, therefore Jace could have only been like 10 after the first jump, which fits 10 year gap in ep 6
Some people doesn't notice Rhaenyra got married at the very least 4 months after she had sex with Cole or pretend she would be that skinny in her wedding with 4 months of pregnancy and that no one would suspect it wasn't Leanor's kid when she had a healthy son with "just five months" of pregnancy lmao
@@jrlombardi5251 there were 2 years before her 1st child was born. Read the books ffs
@@samirah1240 no he was 8 after the jump so 2 years passed before he was born. There are books you know
@@parkeydee I don't need to read the book bc I'm talking about the show, the show and the book are two different and separate things. In the show Jace is confirmed a little older than in the book but that doesn't matter since the times still don't fit for him to be Criston's kid.
How the hell is both of her sons hair black but her other children white haired and there father and mother has white hair
No. This theory serves no purpose and would be more of an unnecessary distraction to the main story which is between the greens and blacks. Cole is a side character much like the rest of the knights and wouldn't serve any benefit to the main story other than prepping or helping the greens boys
It would make more sense that the oldest prince is Cole’s kid not the youngest
I think he is in the show. The hair is similar. The skin tone is similar. Rhaenyra explicitly dodged Jace’s questioning twice. He knows what’s at stake and is her heir. Why not tell him what he already suspects if it’s true? Because it isn’t. Harwin isn’t his father. Criston is.
How is the skin tone similar? Cole is tan and Jace is not
@@daemontarg000 Jaces mother is whiter than aryans🤣of course Jace is gonna be lighter than Cole ( plus Cole has a slight tan and olive tone not outright light brown or sum). But regardless Jace is still darker than his mom. Jace older version has brown eyes and hair, Coles nose and lip shape, Coles facial expressions and face shape
@@samirah1240 Jace’s age doesn’t line up with being Coles son he’s younger than Aemond whose conceived before the time jump
@@daemontarg000 jace was around ten after the ten year time jump. His age definitely lines up
Nah