This guy is awesome. I love the knowledgeable but not pushy way in which he presents the material. I'm glad there are experienced folks like him out there educating folks like me.
Yes! He doesn't go too technical but relies upon published data. Like every shooter with 60+ years of shooting I have an opinion; I wouldn't hunt deer with anything less than a 7mm08 in open mountains of CA. In MI a 30-30 is plenty and sometimes a .22 mag would do.
I don't think I'd use anything smaller than .223 for deer. But I think the .243 is better suited for the job. Have been reading Mr. Spomer's writings and listening to him since the mid 70's. Forget what year I discovered Ron. But it had to be around 75. A wealth is treasured information.
@@donswearingen9805 .243 with 87gr Vmax works well for varmints, antelope and can take a deer if you have a good shot within 200 meters so you can place it exactly where you need it.
During the Depression ammo was scarce and expensive. A 22LR was more affordable for a lot of folks. Close range with a single shot Henry kept food on the table for my grandparents. I learned to hunt from my grandfather and it took a lot of discipline. He believed that a lot of big caliber hunters ruined more meat than they ate.
My grandfather Grew up during depression and growing up he was a true believer with that 22 and a tear in the meet up like you were saying I agree with you 100% they didn’t have money for bullets back then
My grandfather was a sniper/marksman in WW2, and while my dad was growing up (he was born in '51) my grandfather would take deer with a 22lr rifle, and I believe dad said sometimes his military issued rifle as well. I wish I had had the opportunity to meet him, he passed a few years before I was born
My dad talked about making his own slugs with a drill and piece of wood, in the Depression. He also told a story about a time he and a buddy went to Canada. The native guide tossed a rusty Nylon 66 in the boat. When they asked him what that was for, he said it was in case they saw a moose. He said if they saw a moose in the water they would go up alongside it and shoot it is the head. They asked, "What if it doesn't kill the moose?" "We'll just go up along side it, again, and shoot it in the head."
@@wadetaylor1299I call bogus on original poster. Henry company the original Henry was 44 rimfire not 22. And modern Henry company was not started until very recently, 1996 to be exact.
I've hunted with 22 250 for years and always with a 55gr soft points. Within 100 yard and a good neck shot they drop like a brick. That being said it's all about placement and make sure you pick your shot and don't rush it
Yup, and rather not take the shot if you are not 100% confident. I think most people use a Bone Blaster 3000 because they want to have the option to do some sloppy shooting.
@@billburgess9100 more deer has been taken with 22lr its the poachers choice I hate poachers that are horn hunters or just to lazy to do it right the only reason I could justify it is someone who is out of food and needs it for feeding their family but even then its hard to justify it
Like you've said over and over, shot placement and bullet selection are king and will always be king! No if, and, or but about it. Always enjoy your content Ron!
Sure but it's a fact as kid in Oklahoma country life I've had to go home after killing a deer with 22lr to get help dressing it And hogs yes bigger would do the job but I've hunted my whole adult life in okla Texas shot everything I would take a sure shot at with 243 down I hunt hogs here with my 22mag 50yard shots are mostly what we get with all our trees head shots are what u do if you can shot and know your weapon I simple go hunt with attitudes that I don't have to take that shot unless I'm sure of it isn't that how your suppose to hunt not kill or shot up the woods leave wounded animals ?
@@budledbetter7457 regardless of your skill mistakes happen , and when an elk moves unexpectedly or an unseen branch suddenly appears you’ll be glad you were using a larger , not smaller caliber. I’ve shot hundreds of deer elk bears cougars and other stuff. Bullets don’t always go where you want them to.
The Barnes tsx makes the 223 a very legitimate deer round. If you look in the Ackley handbooks there’s an article about culling wild burro with a 220 swift. It was a rock solid killer!
The 223 and the 220 swift are miles apart! The fastest 223 is around 2800 fps the 220 swift was up to 6000. The throat and barrel erosion made the not last to long! Plus you had to shoot a heavy jacketed bullet through them!
I have used (and still use) 22-250 55gr handloads many times on mule deer and it is critical to understand how quickly those light bullets can lose their oomph. I have absolutely no question about the placement, coyotes will turn wrong side out at 300 yards and more, but in my experience in my hunting regime, the terminal performance on deer can quickly get marginal at 100 yards or even closer. Know your performance limitations with the caliber/bullet/rifle that you choose and be responsible and ethical. Excellent information here, Thanks.
@@DaveL9170 the problem with long shots is lack of bullet expansion. Some bullets expand well at long range but blow up and fail to penetrate at short range. So you have to know your distance in advance and pick the right bullet for your circumstances.
Couldn't agree more. 22-250 is a badass on deer, out to about 100 yards or so and it doesn't really matter about shit placement. Speed kills. Not saying to shoot them in the gut though
My daughter used a .243 with 70 grain Hammers at 3500. Instant dead deer last year. We've had good luck also with 100 Sierras. Inhave always used my grandpas 30-06. I also have several 223's but i have them set up for varmints and target. Lots of cheap pracice that way.
Thanks Ron, great topic. I'll use a varmint rifle and cartridge as long as it has a deer sized and performance style bullet. I don't think I'd personally go smaller than a .223 with a heavy 65+ grain projectile, but that's just me and my preference.
62 gr federal fusion .223 savage axis is the bee's knees for me!!! 100 yds or less... one season here in south Georgia. I shot 7 deer behind the shoulder DRT!! With an 8th going only 20 yds!!!
Funny, I've seen 9 deer hit with that exact bullet here on RUclips but only 3 dropped with most running 40+ yards. Either you are hitting them slightly high and behind the shoulder (in which case drts can be expected), exaggerating, or have been very lucky. Because as i said, what you're saying certainly doesn't match the performance I've seen right here on RUclips.
I have taken a deer with a .223 but it took 5 rounds to bring it down, 1 well placed shot and 4 follow ups. I wouldn’t recommend going deer hunting with less than a .243 but the ultimate deer rifle considering range ,accuracy ,knockdown and availability is the .308 all the way.
Iv seen .243 drop a Buffalo dead also seen whitetail absorb 3 rounds from a .338 win mag. Placement, bullet construction and sufficient energy to open that bullet properly are most important.
It was almost six years ago, the second week in December, two days short of the close of deer season. I was getting bored of a pretty dismal couple of weeks where I saw no deer from the blind, yet dozens of squirrel. That day I brought an extra small-game rifle to the stand to take some consolation meat. I saw a movement in some bushes and figured it was one of those squirrel. I sighted in the movement with my 17HMR and out steps a buck with a perfect broadside shot. I half considered taking the shot, but remembering legal restrictions and ethical take, I very, very quietly extracted the live round, put down the 17HMR and picked up the 308. Just as I was closing the bolt, I shouldered the rifle to see the buck in perfect broadside about 40 yards away. The rest is culinary history. The blood trail was nearly two meters wide.
To me, it boils down to how much recoil you can stand and still shoot accurately. Most hunters who are recoil adverse can handle the .243 with no problem. Practice and get used to shooting it accurately. There is no reason to go with anything less powerful. On the ethical issue, the .243 is the minimum to ensure a quick harvest with minimal pain and suffering for the game, and to reduce the risk of lost game. Others may disagree based on their own experiences but this is my take on the subject to rifle rounds for deer, based on my experiences.
I have spinal cord damage from when I was 18 and use a 7mm-08. I can handle it pretty well and the few deer I shot just dropped. I only started hunting recently though. I'm thinking of getting a .243 as the ammo is more plentiful.
@@joshp2542 I shot a few deer and hogs with the .243 and it did the job perfectly. Used Remington and Federal 100 grain bullets , cheap ammo. All inside 150 yards, but I am sure it would be just fine for longer shots.
I've happily headshot deer with a 223 , under the conditions I choose, for venison. I have bigger rifles to use when I'm unsure of my hunting conditions - and can use them as efficiently and effectively as the 223.
@@paulreid2223 - I have never head or neck shot a deer and would not even attempt it because the chance of a wounding is too great. Easy to miss a vital spot and have the deer get away to die a long and painful death or end up crippled. Others may be better shots and have more accurate rifles but I know my limitations.
Hi Ron. I Just saw this and I worked in the firearms industry back in the 80's and early 90's. The wildlife biologist at the DNR used to come in to the shop as he was also a Camp perry Ohio 1000 yard shooter. He had worked in Texas and to study deer he told me he used a .22.250 for to shoot little deer / does and such to study age, sex, etc.. He also told me you had to shoot them in the head or something like that.. I guess it was a government rifle.. His favorite cartridge at the time though was surely the .308 for deer and shooting.. I think .243 is the minimum in my book.. Thank you for the show. This is a great show sir.. I love it.. I used to read your articles in high school way back in the day I believe it was, or when I was in my 20's, long before the internet. Best regards from the heartland. South Central Indiana. USA Tim
Absolutely great video! You hit the nail on the head with the shot placement discussion. And when you spoke of the desire of many hunters to shoot something with far less recoil than the larger calibers, you were spot on again. Much easier to shoot accurately with less recoil. And there's your shot placement. And I don't mean to say there aren't plenty of hunters who can shoot the large calibers with good accuracy. There are. But if you're careful with the shot you choose, and can readily shoot your rifle accurately, then, as you said, good results can be had. Thanks for some great information!
Sooner or later you will make a bad shot. A Bigger caliber can help if you make a Mistake not critical. My Dad would shoot deer in the butt. I wait for a better shot.
Got into shoot the 223 in Kansas because at one time it was cheap and plentiful. I've done countless population control hunts with a 55gr sp. In anything but a ball of the shoulder hit I tend to get a full pass thru out to 150yards and countless instant drops at 300yrds. The ability to stay on target with little to no recoil is awesome. The 30-06 hasn't been out of the safe in nearly 4 years. Hunting buddy shoots the same bullet in his 22-250 with the added velocity he has more issues with exploded bullets in the near side requiring follow up shots. That being said even though I have a deep choice of calibers I find myself grabbing the smallest round I feel is ethical for the situation because it tends to be the one I can shoot most confidently. 223. Up to deer, 308 for moose and elk, 300win mag in bear and back country long range stuff
I've killed deer with everything from 9.3x62, 30-06, 7 mag, 7.62x54, 308, 270, 6.5x284, 30-30, and 7.62x39. On my to do list is 223. I've heard from people I know and trust they've had good results with 60 gr nosler partitions. The best results I've had depend more on bullet construction than caliber. Most inconsistent poorest performing was the 6.5x284 with berger vld bullets. The 9.3x62 with a 285 gr partition will go diagonal through any whitetail that exists. In my experience the biggest factors in order are 1: shot placement, 2: bullet construction, 3: bullet velocity at impact.
My friend had neck surgery, while he healed he needed something lighter recoiling. He took countless white tail with a Howa chambered in .223. He hand loaded some Barnes, forget the weight but they were light as the Howa only had a 1:12 twist. 100% success rate. All about shot placement.
Have shot MANY whitetails here in SE Nebraska with the .22-250. Never had to track one. Longest shot...350 yds., most have been between 100 - 200 yds..
For shots (head/neck) with my .223 Rem, I use 60gr Nosler Partitions. It works great on deer. BUT, if there’s a chance that I will take a body shot on a deer, I leave the .223 at home and use a .308 or .30-06. In my experience, bullet selection only goes so far before you need to step up bullet weight. A whitetailed deer isn’t the biggest animal in the forest, but bucks (especially mature ones) are tough animals that don’t give up easy.
According to Ken Waters, a 220 Swift or 22-250 loaded with a well built, heavier bullet,i.e. 60gr Nosler Partition, stepping out about 3300 - 3500 is adequate for deer. I've looked at various 70 gr, but use of a monolith 70gr requires a 1-8" twist to get the accuracy desired. Heimo Korth of Alaska uses 22-250, with 55gr Winchester ammo for bears, black and otherwise, moose and whatever else he needs to shoot. I believe that placement is the largest part of 22cf hunting. Thanx Ron!
I am asking all the new hunters to check out your channel Mr. Spomer, they will learn so much from you even before they hit the woods, just like I have!! Thanks for all you do for the sport!
I have taken more deer with sierra 77 grain .223 than my 6.8spc and .308 now. Without one running yet. Now that I have jinxed myself. I had to say I agreed with another video you've made Ron, on 1000 ft-lbs of energy getting the job done on deer, I think it was the 6mm ARC. I still think shot placement is the most important thing when hunting with any round, which you stated.
Good stuff, if I go smaller I normally like the 223/5.56 cartridge, grain weights between 64 and 77 has worked well for me on everything from beaver to deer.
Interesting topic here Mr. Spomer, I believe that some of these small fast cartridges can and do kill like lightning when everything goes right,especially bullet placement as you said, I also think they can be horrible cripplers when things go wrong like shot placement or even a potential bullet failure, you have very little extra insurance, so proceed with caution
7.62x39 is an excellent deer rifle for the area where I live. I have a long range gun for longer shots in some areas I hunt. However, I assure you a good lung shot with a .22 is plenty for killing a deer. You just need to have the skill to track for 75-100 yards.
The last deer i shot was with a 25-06 and an 87 grain bullet. And yes it is the shot placement. Mine is always the head, they drop in their tracks every time. No wasted meat and no looking for them. And horns you can't eat either.
My great uncle partially fed his family with a 22 magnum, this included many whitetails. 22 magnum is legal for deer in Maine. He was a dam good shot and a hell of a hunter. None of those deer suffered any more than if he had shot them with any other centerfire cartridge
@bullgravy6906 In the hands of talented shooter, discriminate shooters with impulse control it would work. But the fact is that most shooters are none of that. Such small ballistics leave no room for error, and most shooters are mostly error.
@@Resistculturaldecline Agree. It takes a really accurate rifle, a very skilled shooter, but most importantly a hunter that can get close to game, and only shoot when the perfect shot presents itself.
@@billm2078 What velocity were you getting out of that? Off topic but consider a 11.5" for pistols. There's a pretty big jump in velocity from 10.5" to 11.5"
I've used a 22 Hornet for deer, and had to stop putting notches in it for each one killed, otherwise there wouldn't have been enough stock left to hold! As far as legality, in Oregon 22 centerfire for deer and 24 centerfire for elk on caliber.
i switched to hunting with 6.8x43 spc back in 2010 and havent switched back. you get that intermediate .223/5.56 rifle capability with a slightly larger heavier bullet. I've had amazing results. it has that high velocity and flat bullet curve of a varmint cartridge with the mass, wound channeling and knock down power of a slightly larger bullet. the math usually works out to about 2000 ftlbs of energy when i push 2800fps. thats with a 115gr bullet. which is right at the edge of what I consider safe to shoot in my handloads. Ive dropped most of the whitetail ive ever shot. only 3 in recent memory come to mind as bleeders/runners. but ofc they didnt get very far. great little round and its kept my family fed ever since ive used it
@@poisonouslead85 I run wilson combat's 16 inch barrel now. I used to have a PSA complete 6.8 upper back when I first switched to the caliber. But I switched to Wilson in 2016. Cannot reccomend WC enough to first time 6.8 spc shooters.
I think that .22 lr is complete overkill for deer, personally. I know some people use those newfangled high powered .223 and .30 caliber rifles, but for me, I'm sticking to my trusty .177 Red Ryder.
Shot location and bullet construction I guess. Many deer have been taken with a 250fps 90gr broadhead. Interesting video. I love looking at your row of cartridges. Thank you Mr Spomer. Great enjoyment watching your videos.
Yes but don’t forget to mention the overall arrow weight of 300+ grains. That’s where most of the energy lives. A broadhead is a cut/bleed kill, a bullet is a hydraulic shock kill. Apples and oranges. Both absolutely deadly in their own right 👍🏼
Well... there is a different dynamic with broadheads. You don't get the shock and a wound cavity. You are inserting razor blades and cutting as much as you can. Comparing an arrow to a bullet is apples to oranges.
Lots of deer have been killed with various small RF cartridges. Like 22LR and 25 Stevens RF. But you need to be able to place the shot. Dad would kill Caribou in AK with a 22 mag. But he was a premier game shot and did head shots even with his 30-06.
My neighbor used to dump them in his yard with a .22 CB cap! They never took a step as on several occasions he had called me up to show me. A CB cap with a low ear shot under 30 yards. It’s ALL about bullet selection and shot placement combined! A state or municipality should never tell you what to use as it’s NOT about bullet size/ diameter alone.
When I moved to Maine four years ago and I read up on the regs and they allow the .22WMR which I found very surprising knowing that Maine has monster size deer... I personally wouldn't use anything less than my .243 shooting a 100 gr. bullet but the gun I use on a regular basis is the .270....
Maine "allows" it because they realize ballistically the round meets the fpe to effectively accomplish it given the understanding of common ranges woodland deer are taken at. Why use a .300 Win mag at
I really do like your video ! I'm French and I discovered your channel during the Hunting Permit training, our instructor used some of your videos about ballistics and hunting !
Seems last couple years, the 350L and 300bo has been taking off here due to the platforms and straight wall cartridge law. Can’t beat the 30-30 though.
@@davidkanalos6710Half right, theres limited zones where its shotgun/straight wall only usually more on the mid/south side of the state. ".35cal min" however in non limited zones, you're correct
Here in PA any centerfire cartridge is legal, it just has to be manually operated. Two of my female cousins have taken deer with .222Rem, one shot kills. Note though, they used catridges/bullets that weren't designed specifically for varmint. ...more of a softpoint/bonded bullet design.
Will use a .223 here for yearling red deer, whitetail and goats but everything else is .308. Even then you want a well placed shot hunting sambar stags.
I’ve harvested more deer in my life than i can count with both bow and rifle. Used a 270 first and yep, always got a blood trail and quick recovery. Then one day i got a wild hair up my ass and tried my 223. I only shoot behind the shoulder in the crease. A good buck popped out at 183 yards and he dropped in his tracks. So then i only used the 223 in hornady vmax and took deer at 200 and was dropping them right there. Tried the 30-30 and same results. 7mm rem mag, they ran and i had to track a little bit but quick recovery. This year I’m gonna play with the 6.5 creedmoor and a 762x39. It’s all on preference for sure and shot placement. But my 223 is still my favorite as of right now.
Rem mod 788, carbine length in 223 with a weaver 4x scope was my winter-time rifle on my snow machine. Great on the trap line and have taken a few dozen caribou at distances out to 200 or so yards. Usually dropped them where they stood. Some did the wobble-stagger then drop. Never went after moose but suppose if you're close enough and of course shot placement.
I get the idea of using 55 grain as a benchmark and the thought experiment of using as little cartridge as possible to kill deer, but those 6mm rounds all are meant to shoot heavier bullets and if you use the heavy bullets, they should be great for deer. I know my 6mm ARC is an absolute tack driver with the 108 grain factory loads, and it took a big javelina this year about as quick as I've ever seen my .270 do it. Haven't done deer yet with it but later this year I probably will.
I think.243 is about perfect for the undersized Texas whitetails at my place. Many kids take their first deer with .223, and I know one hunter who has taken every deer in his life with a .218 Bee.
And I have taken advantage of that. The small bullets have worked quite well. And since I come from a family of handloaders, I learned the valuable skill of DOWNLOADING with more frangible bullets. Slowed down a bit, they become controlled expansion bullets.
@@jasonshults368 reminds me of how great handloading is. I swear by downloading I'm the marksman I am for all the extra practice the craft has granted me.
I had an Argentine 1909 Mauser and was going to rebarrel into something else. My shooting buddy convinced me to go with a Douglas premium in 243 Win. We were varmint hunting in Maine and loaded up 58 gr Hornady VMax. Easy on Coyote pelts, cats, fox and crows (pink mist and feather cloud)....what fun to shoot. I'm well below max loads, the groups really came together at 3450 fps.
My grandpa's brother was a gunsmith and outfitter in WY all the way back to the 1920s. He took a SHarps action and a 45-90 case and necked it down to 40 caliber. I got to shoot a handful of rounds thru it. it was pretty accurate and definietly flatter shooting than a 45 caliber bullet with a bunch less recoil. He had a contact at WInchester for repair parts and such for his shop. He managed to talk them into selling him a barrel blank meant for the old 401 autoloader. He had to machine his own loading dies but it all worked out fine. Just a lot of money and effort for a one-off rifle. That was his fun. By the time I met him as a child he was just sort of tired of dealing with the logistics of running the outfitting business. I worked for him two summers as a camp jack in 68 and 69 and in the spring of 70 he sold the business. ...much to my great disappointment.
When it comes to this sort of stuff I think it's best to look to people who live and hunt in areas with very limited options. If there's a way to take out big game with smaller stuff, you bet they've found a way to do it because their lives literally depend on it.
Ron, generally i use a 243 or 7mm-08 for my deer hunting here in Pa but occasionally i will use my 222. In northeast Pa where i live, in most cases the shooting isn't very far. In my 60 plus years of deer hunting i've shot a lot of deer, and quite a few with the 222 and in my experiences at least, the 222 kills a deer as fast as my 243s and 7mm-08s. I do have a friend handload for me and i'm shooting a 62 grain bullet.
In Michigan, the only restriction for rifle hunting is no rimfire cartridges. Therefore, even the 5.7x28 is a legal deer hunting round in handgun or rifle.
Years ago I guided a gentleman on a brown bear and a moose hunt. He came with a 220 swift. He did a great job, both were heart lung shots. Both animals died within 50 yards. I was amazed.
Haha forgot the wssm when mentioning the 223 wssm, it happens. Glad i found your channel. I run an ammo company in Montana, and when we have our 223 wssm loaded and available, it sells almost immediately
I have used 223 from 16" brl on WT and blk bear producing quick kills but my preferred DRT method is any round I can shoot accurately in the high shoulder area ...drops em every time!
I’ve definitely heard many guys saying they like using a small caliber varmint round and going for a neck shot specifically because of the mass fragmentation upon impact. I guess the theory is even if your shot placement isn’t perfect, that bullet is going to explode into enough pieces that you’re pretty much guaranteed to destroy the spinal column.
Our go to round out here at the ranch is the Winchester .223 Rem - Power Point Deer & Antelope. Great all around round, easy shooting round for the kids. I just wish he would have mentioned the .218 Bee, a great predator round.
I had a friend who worked at a restaurant with me many years ago. He grew up in an Eskimo village where there was a total of one mile of roads. He owned one of two automobiles in town. He recounted a story where a polar bear wandered through town and just about everyone came out and shot that bear, multiple times, with their .22lr rifles, to no apparent effect. He also said they hunted polar bears, regularly, by paddling up behind them and shooting them behind the ear while they were swimming with… a .22lr. Go figure, I guess shot placement and distance counts after all.
I live in Missouri where it is legal to hunt deer with any center fire cartridge. The big problem, in my opinion, is with those individuals who can't seem to take the extra time and take the extra few seconds to insure a clean, and accurate shot. I often hunt with a .22 hornet when it is likely that I will not get a shot over eighty yards or so. I often see coyotes in the area so it's a plus to carry it. Also, I never attempt a shot that is questionable.
Over the years, I’ve learned that for acceptable terminal performance, a bullet can be slow, but it needs to be heavy. It can be light, but it needs to be fast.
6.8 SPC will readily flatten anything walking around in Texas outside of a Nilgai. Haven’t had anything run on me except for when shooting into sounders and getting some bad hits.
In Germany we have legal requirements for cartridge and target animal: Roe deer and seals require 1000J e100. Other deer and elk and boar requires 2000J e100 and 6.5mm minimum.
The Inuit (most notably the Dogrib Tribe) use the .22 Long Rifle to drop caribou while subsistence hunting. In the past I've done it while in Alaska. A clean shot, immediate drop and yes- I ate it along with the others. I don't know what rifle I used, maybe a Marlin but it wasn't a laver gun I think.
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This guy is awesome. I love the knowledgeable but not pushy way in which he presents the material. I'm glad there are experienced folks like him out there educating folks like me.
Yes! He doesn't go too technical but relies upon published data. Like every shooter with 60+ years of shooting I have an opinion; I wouldn't hunt deer with anything less than a 7mm08 in open mountains of CA.
In MI a 30-30 is plenty and sometimes a .22 mag would do.
I don't think I'd use anything smaller than .223 for deer. But I think the .243 is better suited for the job.
Have been reading Mr. Spomer's writings and listening to him since the mid 70's.
Forget what year I discovered Ron. But it had to be around 75.
A wealth is treasured information.
I have a .243. I use it for antelope. For everything else I have a 30-06. It has never let me down.
@@donswearingen9805 .243 with 87gr Vmax works well for varmints, antelope and can take a deer if you have a good shot within 200 meters so you can place it exactly where you need it.
I just didcovered Ron.👍
I use a .222
Thanks Anthony. I'm shocked that you've tolerated me for that long!
*WE NEED A GARANDTHUMB AND RON SPOMER COLAB*
During the Depression ammo was scarce and expensive. A 22LR was more affordable for a lot of folks. Close range with a single shot Henry kept food on the table for my grandparents.
I learned to hunt from my grandfather and it took a lot of discipline. He believed that a lot of big caliber hunters ruined more meat than they ate.
My grandfather Grew up during depression and growing up he was a true believer with that 22 and a tear in the meet up like you were saying I agree with you 100% they didn’t have money for bullets back then
My grandfather was a sniper/marksman in WW2, and while my dad was growing up (he was born in '51) my grandfather would take deer with a 22lr rifle, and I believe dad said sometimes his military issued rifle as well. I wish I had had the opportunity to meet him, he passed a few years before I was born
Not so sure there was a Henry 22 single shot during that time . 2000s they started making 22s
My dad talked about making his own slugs with a drill and piece of wood, in the Depression.
He also told a story about a time he and a buddy went to Canada. The native guide tossed a rusty Nylon 66 in the boat. When they asked him what that was for, he said it was in case they saw a moose. He said if they saw a moose in the water they would go up alongside it and shoot it is the head.
They asked, "What if it doesn't kill the moose?"
"We'll just go up along side it, again, and shoot it in the head."
@@wadetaylor1299I call bogus on original poster. Henry company the original Henry was 44 rimfire not 22. And modern Henry company was not started until very recently, 1996 to be exact.
A great day when Mr. Spomer gives us a video
Well spoken
We've head shot deer msny times with 22 LR, 22 mag, 22 hornet down in Florida years ago...... my preferred deer rifle was 222.....for many years
Every mule deer I've taken, I've taken with a .223.
It's a great round, no recoil and easy to put in that sweet spot.
I've hunted with 22 250 for years and always with a 55gr soft points. Within 100 yard and a good neck shot they drop like a brick. That being said it's all about placement and make sure you pick your shot and don't rush it
Good info for SHTF.
I had a friend in AZ who did the same with a .223 - atlas joint or nothing. You need a lot of patience, but you don't waste an ounce of meat.
And when it's not "a good neck shot"?
Yup, and rather not take the shot if you are not 100% confident.
I think most people use a Bone Blaster 3000 because they want to have the option to do some sloppy shooting.
Norma is making excellent bullet of that type, 55gr Oryx.
22 hornet was one of my favorites
I agree. When everything goes well a small bullet should work, but when things go wrong or a little off. Bigger is much better. Cheer's
Virginia is .25 caliber minimum for deer hunting. For this reason, my first hunting rifle was a 25-06, and it's served me well.
Killed several with a 22mag. When I turned 10 years old, I started using a 30/30. Later in life I found that my favorite deer rifle is a 308.
There has probably been far more deer taken with a 22 mag, a poor man's deer rifle, than people are willing to admit.
@@billburgess9100 you mean “poached”
@@billburgess9100 more deer has been taken with 22lr its the poachers choice I hate poachers that are horn hunters or just to lazy to do it right the only reason I could justify it is someone who is out of food and needs it for feeding their family but even then its hard to justify it
Like you've said over and over, shot placement and bullet selection are king and will always be king! No if, and, or but about it. Always enjoy your content Ron!
Sure but it's a fact as kid in Oklahoma country life I've had to go home after killing a deer with 22lr to get help dressing it And hogs yes bigger would do the job but I've hunted my whole adult life in okla Texas shot everything I would take a sure shot at with 243 down I hunt hogs here with my 22mag 50yard shots are mostly what we get with all our trees head shots are what u do if you can shot and know your weapon I simple go hunt with attitudes that I don't have to take that shot unless I'm sure of it isn't that how your suppose to hunt not kill or shot up the woods leave wounded animals ?
@@budledbetter7457 regardless of your skill mistakes happen , and when an elk moves unexpectedly or an unseen branch suddenly appears you’ll be glad you were using a larger , not smaller caliber. I’ve shot hundreds of deer elk bears cougars and other stuff. Bullets don’t always go where you want them to.
@@guaporeturns9472 very true
The small bore cartridges can be effective but only if you are very scrupulous in what shots you are willing to make.
The Barnes tsx makes the 223 a very legitimate deer round. If you look in the Ackley handbooks there’s an article about culling wild burro with a 220 swift. It was a rock solid killer!
The 223 and the 220 swift are miles apart! The fastest 223 is around 2800 fps the 220 swift was up to 6000. The throat and barrel erosion made the not last to long! Plus you had to shoot a heavy jacketed bullet through them!
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I have used (and still use) 22-250 55gr handloads many times on mule deer and it is critical to understand how quickly those light bullets can lose their oomph. I have absolutely no question about the placement, coyotes will turn wrong side out at 300 yards and more, but in my experience in my hunting regime, the terminal performance on deer can quickly get marginal at 100 yards or even closer. Know your performance limitations with the caliber/bullet/rifle that you choose and be responsible and ethical. Excellent information here, Thanks.
Use 60 grain Federal Nosler partitions in .22-250. They’ll drop deer and even elk out to 500 meters. They are AWESOME
A guy let me shoot his 22-250 with handloads. Three levels of powder. Last shot was a liquid laser beam of lead😊
@@DaveL9170 the problem with long shots is lack of bullet expansion. Some bullets expand well at long range but blow up and fail to penetrate at short range. So you have to know your distance in advance and pick the right bullet for your circumstances.
Couldn't agree more. 22-250 is a badass on deer, out to about 100 yards or so and it doesn't really matter about shit placement. Speed kills. Not saying to shoot them in the gut though
Within 100 yards, maybe 150, they do fine but once the distance increases, the 22-250 lacks the power for humane harvests.
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. Good stuff.
Haven’t heard that old saying before.
My daughter used a .243 with 70 grain Hammers at 3500. Instant dead deer last year. We've had good luck also with 100 Sierras. Inhave always used my grandpas 30-06. I also have several 223's but i have them set up for varmints and target. Lots of cheap pracice that way.
I usually use a 308 but have had excellent results with a 223 from a 14.5” barrel using 64g Winchester Extreme Points on deer.
Thanks Ron, great topic. I'll use a varmint rifle and cartridge as long as it has a deer sized and performance style bullet. I don't think I'd personally go smaller than a .223 with a heavy 65+ grain projectile, but that's just me and my preference.
62 gr federal fusion .223 savage axis is the bee's knees for me!!! 100 yds or less... one season here in south Georgia. I shot 7 deer behind the shoulder DRT!! With an 8th going only 20 yds!!!
Funny, I've seen 9 deer hit with that exact bullet here on RUclips but only 3 dropped with most running 40+ yards. Either you are hitting them slightly high and behind the shoulder (in which case drts can be expected), exaggerating, or have been very lucky.
Because as i said, what you're saying certainly doesn't match the performance I've seen right here on RUclips.
@@andrewprice1774 Sounds like you have that thing dialed in for sure. The Federal Fusion 62gr is certainly doing the job.
.243 (6mm) is the smallest we use. With a 100 grain Hornady SST it dumps deer pretty good.
95gr?
I like 100, it also works good in the woodchuck fields too. It handles wind better than the 55 grain in my 22-250.
I have taken a deer with a .223 but it took 5 rounds to bring it down, 1 well placed shot and 4 follow ups. I wouldn’t recommend going deer hunting with less than a .243 but the ultimate deer rifle considering range ,accuracy ,knockdown and availability is the .308 all the way.
Wasn't well placed if it didn't die...head shots
Definitely wasn't well placed. 223 55gr range rds is what I use.
Iv seen .243 drop a Buffalo dead also seen whitetail absorb 3 rounds from a .338 win mag. Placement, bullet construction and sufficient energy to open that bullet properly are most important.
It was almost six years ago, the second week in December, two days short of the close of deer season. I was getting bored of a pretty dismal couple of weeks where I saw no deer from the blind, yet dozens of squirrel. That day I brought an extra small-game rifle to the stand to take some consolation meat.
I saw a movement in some bushes and figured it was one of those squirrel. I sighted in the movement with my 17HMR and out steps a buck with a perfect broadside shot. I half considered taking the shot, but remembering legal restrictions and ethical take, I very, very quietly extracted the live round, put down the 17HMR and picked up the 308. Just as I was closing the bolt, I shouldered the rifle to see the buck in perfect broadside about 40 yards away. The rest is culinary history.
The blood trail was nearly two meters wide.
You really kept your cool, Kent! Congrats.
To me, it boils down to how much recoil you can stand and still shoot accurately. Most hunters who are recoil adverse can handle the .243 with no problem. Practice and get used to shooting it accurately. There is no reason to go with anything less powerful. On the ethical issue, the .243 is the minimum to ensure a quick harvest with minimal pain and suffering for the game, and to reduce the risk of lost game. Others may disagree based on their own experiences but this is my take on the subject to rifle rounds for deer, based on my experiences.
I have spinal cord damage from when I was 18 and use a 7mm-08. I can handle it pretty well and the few deer I shot just dropped. I only started hunting recently though. I'm thinking of getting a .243 as the ammo is more plentiful.
@@joshp2542 I shot a few deer and hogs with the .243 and it did the job perfectly. Used Remington and Federal 100 grain bullets , cheap ammo. All inside 150 yards, but I am sure it would be just fine for longer shots.
I went to a 7mm08 over my 270 for 2 reasons the 08 recoils a little less but is lighter and synthetic so i dont mide it getting dinged up
I've happily headshot deer with a 223 , under the conditions I choose, for venison. I have bigger rifles to use when I'm unsure of my hunting conditions - and can use them as efficiently and effectively as the 223.
@@paulreid2223 - I have never head or neck shot a deer and would not even attempt it because the chance of a wounding is too great. Easy to miss a vital spot and have the deer get away to die a long and painful death or end up crippled. Others may be better shots and have more accurate rifles but I know my limitations.
I just got my first 300 win mag today I'm so excited
Happy with you. Enjoy!
@@milo555100 thanks so much brother I was just shooting my 308 and my neighbor raccooned himself lol
Shot placement is key with any caliber! Great job!
Hi Ron. I Just saw this and I worked in the firearms industry back in the 80's and early 90's. The wildlife biologist at the DNR used to come in to the shop as he was also a Camp perry Ohio 1000 yard shooter. He had worked in Texas and to study deer he told me he used a .22.250 for to shoot little deer / does and such to study age, sex, etc.. He also told me you had to shoot them in the head or something like that.. I guess it was a government rifle.. His favorite cartridge at the time though was surely the .308 for deer and shooting..
I think .243 is the minimum in my book..
Thank you for the show. This is a great show sir.. I love it.. I used to read your articles in high school way back in the day I believe it was, or when I was in my 20's, long before the internet.
Best regards from the heartland. South Central Indiana. USA
Tim
Absolutely great video! You hit the nail on the head with the shot placement discussion. And when you spoke of the desire of many hunters to shoot something with far less recoil than the larger calibers, you were spot on again. Much easier to shoot accurately with less recoil. And there's your shot placement. And I don't mean to say there aren't plenty of hunters who can shoot the large calibers with good accuracy. There are. But if you're careful with the shot you choose, and can readily shoot your rifle accurately, then, as you said, good results can be had. Thanks for some great information!
Certain cartridges aren't more accurate than one another, just easier to shoot more accurately 😉
Sooner or later you will make a bad shot. A Bigger caliber can help if you make a Mistake not critical. My Dad would shoot deer in the butt. I wait for a better shot.
Got into shoot the 223 in Kansas because at one time it was cheap and plentiful. I've done countless population control hunts with a 55gr sp. In anything but a ball of the shoulder hit I tend to get a full pass thru out to 150yards and countless instant drops at 300yrds. The ability to stay on target with little to no recoil is awesome. The 30-06 hasn't been out of the safe in nearly 4 years. Hunting buddy shoots the same bullet in his 22-250 with the added velocity he has more issues with exploded bullets in the near side requiring follow up shots. That being said even though I have a deep choice of calibers I find myself grabbing the smallest round I feel is ethical for the situation because it tends to be the one I can shoot most confidently. 223. Up to deer, 308 for moose and elk, 300win mag in bear and back country long range stuff
I've killed deer with everything from 9.3x62, 30-06, 7 mag, 7.62x54, 308, 270, 6.5x284, 30-30, and 7.62x39. On my to do list is 223. I've heard from people I know and trust they've had good results with 60 gr nosler partitions. The best results I've had depend more on bullet construction than caliber. Most inconsistent poorest performing was the 6.5x284 with berger vld bullets. The 9.3x62 with a 285 gr partition will go diagonal through any whitetail that exists. In my experience the biggest factors in order are 1: shot placement, 2: bullet construction, 3: bullet velocity at impact.
Try the Nosler 140gr or the Nosler ABLR 142 in your 6.5-284, I’ve killed deer out to 400yrd with both bullets with 1 shot kills
My friend had neck surgery, while he healed he needed something lighter recoiling. He took countless white tail with a Howa chambered in .223. He hand loaded some Barnes, forget the weight but they were light as the Howa only had a 1:12 twist. 100% success rate. All about shot placement.
You should see what the 80 grain ELDX in the .22 Creedmoor does!!!!!
My first deer rifle was a 22-250. It was plenty enough for Texas hill country white tail.
Have shot MANY whitetails here in
SE Nebraska with the .22-250. Never had to track one. Longest shot...350 yds., most have been between 100 - 200 yds..
For shots (head/neck) with my .223 Rem, I use 60gr Nosler Partitions. It works great on deer. BUT, if there’s a chance that I will take a body shot on a deer, I leave the .223 at home and use a .308 or .30-06. In my experience, bullet selection only goes so far before you need to step up bullet weight. A whitetailed deer isn’t the biggest animal in the forest, but bucks (especially mature ones) are tough animals that don’t give up easy.
556 with 77gr otm will more than be fine for a broadside shot
Thank you for more great content Ron. I appreciate your delivery style and subjects of your videos. You have my recommendation!
Thank you sir.
Have you heard Paul Harrell is "retiring"? Thanks for everything through the years. - Godspeed@@RonSpomerOutdoors
According to Ken Waters, a 220 Swift or 22-250 loaded with a well built, heavier bullet,i.e. 60gr Nosler Partition, stepping out about 3300 - 3500 is adequate for deer. I've looked at various 70 gr, but use of a monolith 70gr requires a 1-8" twist to get the accuracy desired. Heimo Korth of Alaska uses 22-250, with 55gr Winchester ammo for bears, black and otherwise, moose and whatever else he needs to shoot. I believe that placement is the largest part of 22cf hunting. Thanx Ron!
I use the 69 grain NP you’re talking about. They are awesome!!!!!!
I am asking all the new hunters to check out your channel Mr. Spomer, they will learn so much from you even before they hit the woods, just like I have!! Thanks for all you do for the sport!
Back in the Endless Mountains out side of Wilkes Barre PA 22 Mag. Was the preferred round for the *unofficial hunting" season. Many moons ago.
Smaller buck such as Springbok here in RSA are taken easily with a 223 Rem and a 55gr Gameking.
I grew up shooting deer with the old triple deuce and still use it with a 52 grain hollow point 50 years later. Head and neck shots only.
Maryland goes by muzzle energy. Requiring 1200 ft/lb centerfire rifle or pistol, 20 Guage or larger shotgun " slug only" ,or .45 caliber or larger muzzle loader.
I have taken more deer with sierra 77 grain .223 than my 6.8spc and .308 now. Without one running yet. Now that I have jinxed myself. I had to say I agreed with another video you've made Ron, on 1000 ft-lbs of energy getting the job done on deer, I think it was the 6mm ARC. I still think shot placement is the most important thing when hunting with any round, which you stated.
Good stuff, if I go smaller I normally like the 223/5.56 cartridge, grain weights between 64 and 77 has worked well for me on everything from beaver to deer.
Lots of variables. Target range being critical.
The new variable is rotational energy….. like the 8.6 Blackout in a 1 in 3 barrel.
6mm is minimum around here. My one friend uses a. 243 win, and another had a 45-70. Both have taken deer just fine.
Interesting topic here Mr. Spomer, I believe that some of these small fast cartridges can and do kill like lightning when everything goes right,especially bullet placement as you said, I also think they can be horrible cripplers when things go wrong like shot placement or even a potential bullet failure, you have very little extra insurance, so proceed with caution
My uncle used to love his 222 magnum for deer. Bears and wolves in Alaska
I have hunted deer with a 22 h and a 223 and my 22.250 and love them.
7.62x39 is an excellent deer rifle for the area where I live. I have a long range gun for longer shots in some areas I hunt. However, I assure you a good lung shot with a .22 is plenty for killing a deer. You just need to have the skill to track for 75-100 yards.
The last deer i shot was with a 25-06 and an 87 grain bullet. And yes it is the shot placement. Mine is always the head, they drop in their tracks every time. No wasted meat and no looking for them. And horns you can't eat either.
Head shot can easily go wrong
@@guaporeturns9472so can a body shot
My great uncle partially fed his family with a 22 magnum, this included many whitetails. 22 magnum is legal for deer in Maine. He was a dam good shot and a hell of a hunter. None of those deer suffered any more than if he had shot them with any other centerfire cartridge
I wish 22mag was legal in OK, but centerfire ammo only here for deer. My 22mag is scary accurate
@@bullgravy6906check out a 22hornet (centerfire) , keep it to head shots with soft point bullets and its a deadly meat pole for deer out to 200yds
@bullgravy6906 In the hands of talented shooter, discriminate shooters with impulse control it would work. But the fact is that most shooters are none of that. Such small ballistics leave no room for error, and most shooters are mostly error.
@@Resistculturaldecline Agree. It takes a really accurate rifle, a very skilled shooter, but most importantly a hunter that can get close to game, and only shoot when the perfect shot presents itself.
77gr 556 from 18" barrel and good shot placement has worked very well for southeast deer
I loaded 75 grain Hornaday hpbt for my nephew to use in a 10.5 inch AR pis7. The results were spectacular.
@@billm2078 What velocity were you getting out of that? Off topic but consider a 11.5" for pistols. There's a pretty big jump in velocity from 10.5" to 11.5"
@@poisonouslead85 2450, the bullet broke up in the typical way that do.
@@poisonouslead85 Also with the brace rule in Flux I won't be using these for now.
This is a treat for me
Me too. Well said. I appreciate your simple and true comment.
I've used a 22 Hornet for deer, and had to stop putting notches in it for each one killed, otherwise there wouldn't have been enough stock left to hold! As far as legality, in Oregon 22 centerfire for deer and 24 centerfire for elk on caliber.
Thanks Ron 243 or 25'06 is a Minimum when it comes to a white tail.
i switched to hunting with 6.8x43 spc back in 2010 and havent switched back. you get that intermediate .223/5.56 rifle capability with a slightly larger heavier bullet. I've had amazing results. it has that high velocity and flat bullet curve of a varmint cartridge with the mass, wound channeling and knock down power of a slightly larger bullet.
the math usually works out to about 2000 ftlbs of energy when i push 2800fps. thats with a 115gr bullet. which is right at the edge of what I consider safe to shoot in my handloads.
Ive dropped most of the whitetail ive ever shot. only 3 in recent memory come to mind as bleeders/runners. but ofc they didnt get very far. great little round and its kept my family fed ever since ive used it
How long is the barrel on your 6.8?
@@poisonouslead85 I run wilson combat's 16 inch barrel now. I used to have a PSA complete 6.8 upper back when I first switched to the caliber. But I switched to Wilson in 2016. Cannot reccomend WC enough to first time 6.8 spc shooters.
I think that .22 lr is complete overkill for deer, personally. I know some people use those newfangled high powered .223 and .30 caliber rifles, but for me, I'm sticking to my trusty .177 Red Ryder.
You’ll shoot your eye out which that thing.
In Texas we use slugs and buck shot in brushy areas and a .243 on up in open areas.
Shot location and bullet construction I guess. Many deer have been taken with a 250fps 90gr broadhead.
Interesting video. I love looking at your row of cartridges. Thank you Mr Spomer. Great enjoyment watching your videos.
Yes but don’t forget to mention the overall arrow weight of 300+ grains. That’s where most of the energy lives. A broadhead is a cut/bleed kill, a bullet is a hydraulic shock kill. Apples and oranges. Both absolutely deadly in their own right 👍🏼
@@jimmyjones2426 true. A good bullet provides both shock and hemorrhage. Im liking the Barnes TTSX
Well... there is a different dynamic with broadheads. You don't get the shock and a wound cavity. You are inserting razor blades and cutting as much as you can. Comparing an arrow to a bullet is apples to oranges.
Always great info. I have learned a lot from this channel.
Lots of deer have been killed with various small RF cartridges. Like 22LR and 25 Stevens RF. But you need to be able to place the shot. Dad would kill Caribou in AK with a 22 mag. But he was a premier game shot and did head shots even with his 30-06.
My neighbor used to dump them in his yard with a .22 CB cap! They never took a step as on several occasions he had called me up to show me.
A CB cap with a low ear shot under 30 yards.
It’s ALL about bullet selection and shot placement combined!
A state or municipality should never tell you what to use as it’s NOT about bullet size/ diameter alone.
Once again a well presented discussion on varmint rounds. Thank you Ron.
223 62 grain federal fusion worked like a charm on a mule deer.
When I moved to Maine four years ago and I read up on the regs and they allow the .22WMR which I found very surprising knowing that Maine has monster size deer... I personally wouldn't use anything less than my .243 shooting a 100 gr. bullet but the gun I use on a regular basis is the .270....
Maine "allows" it because they realize ballistically the round meets the fpe to effectively accomplish it given the understanding of common ranges woodland deer are taken at. Why use a .300 Win mag at
I really enjoy your program Ron Thank You.
Thanks for watching, Jeff.
I really do like your video ! I'm French and I discovered your channel during the Hunting Permit training, our instructor used some of your videos about ballistics and hunting !
Thanks for another helpful video Ron. In Michigan the smaller cartridges can’t be used for deer so the 30-30 is king here along with 06, 308 etc.
Seems last couple years, the 350L and 300bo has been taking off here due to the platforms and straight wall cartridge law. Can’t beat the 30-30 though.
Any Is center fire cartridge can be used in michigan so your wrong .MY wife uses a 223 in a mini 14 and shot a 9 point buck 187 pound dress out .
@@davidkanalos6710Half right, theres limited zones where its shotgun/straight wall only usually more on the mid/south side of the state. ".35cal min" however in non limited zones, you're correct
Here in PA any centerfire cartridge is legal, it just has to be manually operated. Two of my female cousins have taken deer with .222Rem, one shot kills. Note though, they used catridges/bullets that weren't designed specifically for varmint. ...more of a softpoint/bonded bullet design.
70 grain ttx Barnes 223 30" penataraion with 223 rem
Have you tried any of the other Barnes bullets in 223?
@@TheCrystalJules no not in the 223, 22/250 45 grain complete pass through
Will use a .223 here for yearling red deer, whitetail and goats but everything else is .308. Even then you want a well placed shot hunting sambar stags.
I’ve harvested more deer in my life than i can count with both bow and rifle. Used a 270 first and yep, always got a blood trail and quick recovery. Then one day i got a wild hair up my ass and tried my 223. I only shoot behind the shoulder in the crease. A good buck popped out at 183 yards and he dropped in his tracks. So then i only used the 223 in hornady vmax and took deer at 200 and was dropping them right there. Tried the 30-30 and same results. 7mm rem mag, they ran and i had to track a little bit but quick recovery. This year I’m gonna play with the 6.5 creedmoor and a 762x39. It’s all on preference for sure and shot placement. But my 223 is still my favorite as of right now.
Rem mod 788, carbine length in 223 with a weaver 4x scope was my winter-time rifle on my snow machine. Great on the trap line and have taken a few dozen caribou at distances out to 200 or so yards. Usually dropped them where they stood. Some did the wobble-stagger then drop. Never went after moose but suppose if you're close enough and of course shot placement.
I get the idea of using 55 grain as a benchmark and the thought experiment of using as little cartridge as possible to kill deer, but those 6mm rounds all are meant to shoot heavier bullets and if you use the heavy bullets, they should be great for deer. I know my 6mm ARC is an absolute tack driver with the 108 grain factory loads, and it took a big javelina this year about as quick as I've ever seen my .270 do it. Haven't done deer yet with it but later this year I probably will.
I think.243 is about perfect for the undersized Texas whitetails at my place. Many kids take their first deer with .223, and I know one hunter who has taken every deer in his life with a .218 Bee.
Here in Oklahoma there is no minimum caliber for deer hunting, there is a minimum projectile weight of 55gr. Speer makes a gold dot at 55gr.
In Montana the only restriction is that it must be center fire.
And I have taken advantage of that. The small bullets have worked quite well. And since I come from a family of handloaders, I learned the valuable skill of DOWNLOADING with more frangible bullets. Slowed down a bit, they become controlled expansion bullets.
@@jasonshults368 reminds me of how great handloading is. I swear by downloading I'm the marksman I am for all the extra practice the craft has granted me.
I had an Argentine 1909 Mauser and was going to rebarrel into something else. My shooting buddy convinced me to go with a Douglas premium in 243 Win. We were varmint hunting in Maine and loaded up 58 gr Hornady VMax. Easy on Coyote pelts, cats, fox and crows (pink mist and feather cloud)....what fun to shoot. I'm well below max loads, the groups really came together at 3450 fps.
My grandpa's brother was a gunsmith and outfitter in WY all the way back to the 1920s. He took a SHarps action and a 45-90 case and necked it down to 40 caliber. I got to shoot a handful of rounds thru it. it was pretty accurate and definietly flatter shooting than a 45 caliber bullet with a bunch less recoil. He had a contact at WInchester for repair parts and such for his shop. He managed to talk them into selling him a barrel blank meant for the old 401 autoloader. He had to machine his own loading dies but it all worked out fine. Just a lot of money and effort for a one-off rifle. That was his fun. By the time I met him as a child he was just sort of tired of dealing with the logistics of running the outfitting business. I worked for him two summers as a camp jack in 68 and 69 and in the spring of 70 he sold the business. ...much to my great disappointment.
I’m going to be trying 300blk this year for first time. I’m in Mississippi. Previously used 30.06 and still will for 150 plus yard shots
When it comes to this sort of stuff I think it's best to look to people who live and hunt in areas with very limited options. If there's a way to take out big game with smaller stuff, you bet they've found a way to do it because their lives literally depend on it.
Ron, generally i use a 243 or 7mm-08 for my deer hunting here in Pa but occasionally i will use my 222. In northeast Pa where i live, in most cases the shooting isn't very far. In my 60 plus years of deer hunting i've shot a lot of deer, and quite a few with the 222 and in my experiences at least, the 222 kills a deer as fast as my 243s and 7mm-08s. I do have a friend handload for me and i'm shooting a 62 grain bullet.
I'm in NE PA and use a 7mm-08. Works great.
In Michigan, the only restriction for rifle hunting is no rimfire cartridges. Therefore, even the 5.7x28 is a legal deer hunting round in handgun or rifle.
Years ago I guided a gentleman on a brown bear and a moose hunt. He came with a 220 swift. He did a great job, both were heart lung shots. Both animals died within 50 yards. I was amazed.
Haha forgot the wssm when mentioning the 223 wssm, it happens. Glad i found your channel. I run an ammo company in Montana, and when we have our 223 wssm loaded and available, it sells almost immediately
I have used 223 from 16" brl on WT and blk bear producing quick kills but my preferred DRT method is any round I can shoot accurately in the high shoulder area ...drops em every time!
I’ve definitely heard many guys saying they like using a small caliber varmint round and going for a neck shot specifically because of the mass fragmentation upon impact.
I guess the theory is even if your shot placement isn’t perfect, that bullet is going to explode into enough pieces that you’re pretty much guaranteed to destroy the spinal column.
That model 62A has accounted for lots of camp meat of all sizes.
Our go to round out here at the ranch is the Winchester .223 Rem - Power Point Deer & Antelope. Great all around round, easy shooting round for the kids. I just wish he would have mentioned the .218 Bee, a great predator round.
I had a friend who worked at a restaurant with me many years ago. He grew up in an Eskimo village where there was a total of one mile of roads. He owned one of two automobiles in town. He recounted a story where a polar bear wandered through town and just about everyone came out and shot that bear, multiple times, with their .22lr rifles, to no apparent effect. He also said they hunted polar bears, regularly, by paddling up behind them and shooting them behind the ear while they were swimming with… a .22lr. Go figure, I guess shot placement and distance counts after all.
I live in Missouri where it is legal to hunt deer with any center fire cartridge. The big problem, in my opinion, is with those individuals who can't seem to take the extra time and take the extra few seconds to insure a clean, and accurate shot. I often hunt with a .22 hornet when it is likely that I will not get a shot over eighty yards or so. I often see coyotes in the area so it's a plus to carry it. Also, I never attempt a shot that is questionable.
Over the years, I’ve learned that for acceptable terminal performance, a bullet can be slow, but it needs to be heavy. It can be light, but it needs to be fast.
Excellent topic. Thanks for taking the time to talk about it. 👍
6.8 SPC will readily flatten anything walking around in Texas outside of a Nilgai. Haven’t had anything run on me except for when shooting into sounders and getting some bad hits.
Pennsylvania requires a centerfire cartridge. What size is up to you. But I do know some farmers that used a 22LR close up.
In Germany we have legal requirements for cartridge and target animal:
Roe deer and seals require 1000J e100.
Other deer and elk and boar requires 2000J e100 and 6.5mm minimum.
Love your work and effort put into your videos please keep the knowledge flowing and the 2A community growing
The Inuit (most notably the Dogrib Tribe) use the .22 Long Rifle to drop caribou while subsistence hunting. In the past I've done it while in Alaska. A clean shot, immediate drop and yes- I ate it along with the others. I don't know what rifle I used, maybe a Marlin but it wasn't a laver gun I think.
That was an extremely funny opening. Love it!