Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Tube DAC Fault Diagnosis, Repair & Upgrades
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Join me this time for my longest video yet, as I delve into a broken Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Tube DAC. Follow along as I describe finding the faults, repairing them, upgrading and then testing this wonderful Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 21 Tube DAC. In the end, I was able to achieve 0.001% THD + noise from this baby, a superb result!
For my original Tri-Vista 21 upgrades video, check here:
• Musical Fidelity Tri-V...
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Wow. What great work and analysis. I wish there was someone hear in the US I could get to upgrade my Tri vista 21. I’ve had for years and it works. But I would love to get that kind of treatment for it rather than buy a new unit.
Just another great jam packed full of good info video. Keep up the good work.
Wouw, I love Your work! This is really true love put into a device, that can show it´s real value and shine! I have so much gear from 70-80ie´s to late 90ie´s I could give You!!
One thing I don´t understand: why is there a combo of OpAmps together with a tube stage? Would it not be much nicer, if its discrete class A together with the tubes? I think the OpAmps are reducing the sound quality tremendously.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed this. Op amps have one purpose: to replicate dozens of discrete components in a small, low cost, low power design. That's why they are used here, to save production costs and dramatically reduce parts count. Good op amps like these sound excellent, but well designed discrete circuitry is usually better, though more costly.
Mate I wish you were here in the UK! Amazing job as always.
There is someone here in UK that does the same work to the highest standard
Great vid Mike . The most interesting one yet from my perspective.
Thanks Gordon, much appreciated and glad you enjoyed the vid!
Your the greatest!! Brought tears to my eyes!!
not sure if you guys gives a damn but if you guys are bored like me during the covid times you can stream all of the latest movies and series on InstaFlixxer. Have been binge watching with my brother for the last days =)
@Alfonso Caspian Yup, been using instaflixxer for since december myself =)
At last , someone who has an interesting job.
Really nice job ! I am missing the subtitles...
Excellent video. I wonder if you could fix my Tri Vista SACD player which went kaput because of the bad Philips transport supposedly.
Check out my article on just such a previous repair: liquidaudio.com.au/musical-fidelity-trivista-sacd-player-restoration-modification/
@@LiquidAudio I read it. So you're saying you didn't fix the transport? 😕
@@RedRider2001 Yep, as I mentioned in the article, they are not fixable in any useful sense, unfortunately. Many other SACD machines from the era use this transport and all suffer the same fate.
Interesting piece of gear Mike
Very long road to get that component back to you eh ?!
Hi Harry, thanks for your comment and yes, it was quite an interesting journey for this DAC!
Love your videos Mike and keep up the phenomenal work!
Would you recommend the Schurter Power Entry Module for all audio equipment, i.e. power amps, preamps, etc.? If the shape fits, would the model you use (
5120.1004.0) work for all cases, or does one need to pay attention to the amps (i.e. this one I believe is rated at 6A)?
Hi and thanks! Yes, these modules work very well but you have to factor in power consumption so order appropriately.
Hi ! Schaffner power? 6A or high.
I like your work, want to send my TriVista to you for work and upgrades.
Hi Samuel, thanks for your comment, get in touch via my website contact form, details in the description, we can discuss better that way!
@@LiquidAudio - Thank you Brother, have sent email via your website. :-)
hi there,really sorry to bother you about the power supply ,whats the reason for using BCs and Nichicon ,mixture for the power supply,are there applications for different for different supplies,love the videos,i really do.and thx for your time out,hope you had a good xmas/n/year trip in the 4x4,regards mk
Hi Mark, yes lots of technical reasons for using the parts I use, mostly relating to performance, specifications etc. Really appreciate the positive feedback and yeah I did a nice trip in the 4x4, thanks for asking!
Nice video and DAC! An honest question: I see you regularly change ceramic caps for film caps in the power supplies. I know they are supposed to be superior in the signal path. But I thought that ceramics are preferred for decoupling opamps and other IC's, as they have a lower ESL?
Hi Marcel, lots of good tech stuff to get into here but which we don't have much space for, unfortunately! Ceramics are the cheapest possible cap for bypass and decoupling, which is why we see them everywhere, especially in products like this. They have some drawbacks - highish non-linearities (distortion) and even high ESL, compared to MLCC types for example. They often also have higher ESR at frequencies we are interested in and this is not good and why I replace them with polypropylene film where possible, especially in analog circuits. MKP is almost the perfect capacitor in most scenarios, except for C:V ratio and cost. Using them carefully definitely improves things sonically. You'll note in this job for example, that I didn't replace them everywhere, but we don't want them in or near the signal path if possible.
Bit late here... I think ceramics are mlcc's. Ceramics vary hugely... X7r and c0g types have linear esr and thermal coefficient. X7r is perfect for opamp bypassing. Better than polyester. Polypropylene I good too. The main thing is proximity to the chip pins. The most expensive capacitor isn't worth shit unless it's close to the load as possible.
Hi Mike, I just bought one of these, should be here next week and planning to do all the mods you have described but I am wondering why you didn't replace the extraordinarily mundane 5532 output devices? These have been around forever and I know there are much better chips out there, of course which ones are a whole other topic. Just curious. Cheers
Thanks for this very good question. There's much to say on this topic and a proper discussion is beyond the scope of a reply here unfortunately. Briefly though, the 5532 might be old but it is technically and sonically superb, and used in so much amazing gear including high end test and mesaurement gear. It is essentially blameless in its role here. That being said, this was my first in a series of articles about improvements to the Tr-Vista 21. I have tested and used various other op amps for my own and customer jobs over the years, to good effect. There's more over on the website.
I like your shop!
Thank you!
nice job! do you know anybody in the UK who does this sort of thing? if so could let me know thanks.
I like to see a entire video i know it takes a long time what you're doing and editing. But its a better learning process I think! you can't explain it in 5 minutes. I need some help on choosing a APS not a fan of digital converters don't own one and probably never will but I need aps for an active crossover don't know what I'm looking for and what's the best to get is? cheap. to run some linkwitz lx421.4 speakers what do you think of them any experience. I'm quite handy and can follow schematics and build a kit but I don't have any test equipment so I'm not sure if I should go down that road for an APS??
Hi John, thanks for that, much appreciated. I get inquiries about upgrades like this from the UK, so I'm not sure if there is anyone over there doing this sort of work, in the way I do it. There may be, a good google might reveal someone. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the speakers you mentioned.
JSAUDIOREPAIRS will do that work.
@@terrencesampson9512 cheers!!
I have one of these and it looks like it was updated with new caps.i got it from a repair shop that didn’t want to work on it.i plugged it in and it does work but sound is very dull.if it was a crossover it only has sound from 900hz down no high end.any idea what it could be
Hi David, no idea without looking at it but the fact that a shop has messed with it tells us most of what we need to know. Someone now needs to go through and find out what they've messed up or missed.
I'm in UK and would love my DAC to be improved by expert modification. What would this typically cost? You are too far to do this, but if I got a good UK expert.
Hi, I can't comment on what others would do or might charge but my costs vary according to budget and what you'd like done. A full set of improvements as I've done here takes a day of work, but it's well worth it. Feel free to contact me via email on my website if you'd like to chat further about this.
I have this DAC but don't use anymore as my A3 c/d died
amazing
What makes this DAC so good? What should one pay for an unmodified version?
Hi William, thanks for your question. This is not easy to answer briefly, if it isn't fairly obvious from looking at the DAC and the way it's built. Let's just say it is very well engineered, over-engineered in the power supplies and output buffer and really built to last a lifetime compared to a lot of cheap new DACs. It sounds fantastic too of course which is even more important. That said, I've spent a long time developing a series of improvements for them and they really benefit from these. I can't give price information, there are too many variables including local markets. Keep in mind though that only 1500 were made and they are quite collectible. Search Audiogon or eBay sold items and this will give you a better idea of current market value in your area.
I found one selling for $650 US. I will be seeing if it is in original working condition. Do the tubes need replacing after so many hours of use?
@@williamchow1624 These need much more than tube replacement to operate at their best. The tubes last a long time with how they are configured here, but matching is critical.
Do you do Sony HAP-Z1ES Modification into tube out
Hi Charles, thanks for writing. There are a couple of companies out there offering that service, so I'll leave the tube output to them. My mods for this machine would focus on the unit as a whole. If you live in or near Perth and would like to discuss, feel free to contact me via my website - liquidaudio.com.au/
Great job plenty of test gear
Please Use thin pointer instead you big finger Sir.....great vid and informative anyway
IS there are some explanation how this works , ive seen it on the forum , one of my friends there made this , bu he used better tubes, basicly looks better , but i dont understand why such a hustle over a CHIP that needs 5V or 10V supply , and that is it , and his is 384bits , i dont even get how that is supose to work , so i would like to see some video explaining this device in detail, if anyone knows . Probably even testing it
Hi Pavle, yes it never ceases to amaze me how gear that, on paper might be expected to sound the same, sounds so different in reality. There are long explanations of why this is the case but they are too long and involved to be addressed here. Some things that can easily be measured like power supply impedance, distortion, frequency response, group delay and phase issues due to different types of filters, jitter effects, high frequency harmonics etc, and other things less easily measured. Even more things probably contribute and we don't have good ways to measure them at all. Thanks for commenting!
@@LiquidAudio nice thanks
By the way , here is teh preamp of my friend i talked about that looks a lot like this one , but its better made , at least looks better made, if you care take a look www.hi-files.com/forum/index.php?/topic/31146-aikido-preamp/
Hi Pavle, the MF TriVista DAC is a DAC, not a preamp. The TriVista is certainly better made than the preamp you've sent pics of, but that Aikido may still sound good. A lot of kit-based stuff is poorly designed and built, but some is excellent. Remember, these two units have very different functions.
Nice to see you managed to save the MF boards HOWEVER I would really prefer if you didn't refer to rubbish components as "Chinese" YES I get it, but there is SUCH a good HK audio and South China / Taiwan audio industry it's not really fair
But yes, that is how you do that, no doubt
Thanks Andi and you make a very good point, there is some phenomenal hi-fi and an amazing hi-fi scene in Hong Kong especially, and which I have seen first hand. Unfortunately, the pervasive junk hi-fi and junk electronic parts industry is one based in China. The parts referred to are from China, sadly much of the stuff produced there is dire, and this is worth mentioning because many are not aware of it.
A lot of stuff inside for just a DAC.
look inside a dCS Rossini or Vivaldi .... just google the name and search images
When you have big caps, with LOW esr and fast decoupling caps, the current spikes from the recifiers gets infinite big... add to that toroid transformer with high bandwith. STOP! You do NOT need fast decopling caps close to the rectifier. B**s. Get rid of those and add resistors and ferrite beads on the rectifier.
The fast caps should be close to the user. Which is the DAC chip and amp stages. I use to place SMD caps really close to the dac, where it´s needed. You dont want to create hf noice from the rectifier diodes filling up a bypass cap close to it. WHY? Keep the bandwith low close to the rectifier and keep the bandwith HIGH close to the DAC chip. I can show you measurement on this. I used a small HF sniffer antenna berfore and after introducing some ferrite beads and resistors (in this case i would use 1-2 ohms on each leg of the rectifier): Thanks for a good channel, and keep up the good work!!
Martin Vinranke Sweden