Rover SD1 & Leyland Princess - 70s British Wedge Battle! (1977 SD1 2600 & 1977 2200 HLS Road Test)
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
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The 1970s was a time for pioneering, radical design in cars, with British Leyland trying their absolute hardest. The ADO71 Princess sported Hydragas suspension to offer a floaty, Citroen-esque ride comfort, wrapped in Harris Mann’s wedge styling to create a standout luxury car with a traditional interior, comfortable in Wolseley, Austin or Morris guises. The Rover SD1, meanwhile, paired similar sharp wedge styling - inspired by the Ferrari Daytona, in fact! - with tried and tested V8 and six-cylinder engines, traditional live-axle suspension and a simple, minimalist interior, Which of these radical wedges did it best? Phil and Joe went for a drive to find out…
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Thanks to Ian for loan of his Princess and John for loan of his SD1 - both are marvellous!
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Chapters
0:00 70s Leyland Wedges!
0:53 Princess
6:25 Rover SD1
12:41 Which Would You Choose? 
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Circa 1976 when these were launched, I as a postman then turned a corner on my rounds only to see for the first time a Rover SD1 on someones driveway and a Princess on the neighbours driveway .
They looked like two alien spacecraft sitting there so futuristic.
Compared to the old fashioned looking Austin Cambridge range etc which was discontinued four years earlier.
These two cars were something else at the time. I've never forgotten the vision of those two cars sitting there together.
Enjoyable video, thank you.
The Princess is an almost perfect family car. The flying wedge design is timeless and futuristic today.
The SD1 belongs to a mate of mine, I've driven it a few times and it's absolutely lovely.
Being a car mechanic back in NZ, these were both very popular in my day, worked on these frequently, along with many other BL models, and I don't know how many times I put in pipe joiners in the hydrolastic suspension lines where they'd rust out, leak and get the dreaded suspension "lean" This all brings back many memories !!! 😀😎
I once met Harris Mann at a car show,such a modest Gentleman.
I asked him about how he felt about his fantastic radical designs being Dumbed down etc.
His reply with a smile "Oh l just went for lots of walks around the car park "
We can only begin to imagine if his original designs had entered production.
I've only seen those wheel on a Stag/Triumph 2500 before. They suit the Princess SO well.
They do, don't they?
I've said it before, and i'll say it again... that Princess looks absolutely spot on wearing the Stag wheels 😎👌
Thank you!
Looks fantastic!
True
The Stag Wheels really Transformed the car. But they went over the top with the Love In🤣🤣🤣
With the terrible pot holed roads in this country the Princess is the ideal car. We seemed to have gone backwards in car design with the much harder suspension of modern cars. Great review thanks.
I wouldn't even go so far as to blame modern suspension set-ups, it's this crazy notion of fitting low profile tyres on even the most basic cars nowadays that makes the ride harsh. Even a motor with 14/15" steel rims still has a much lower profile than cars of yesteryear.
Pot holed roads, worse today than 40 years ago
As a kid, I was lucky enough that my Dad had both of these and have great memories of both of them. The engine and ride in the Princess was unmatched for smooth progress but it cried out for a 5th gear (his was manual). Apart from a power steering issue and eventually rust, the Princess was reliable and we even drove it to the South of France and back a few times for our holidays. His first SD1 2600 was a series one like this one and didn't give any trouble at all aside from the glovebox filling up with water every time it rained. He quickly swapped it for a series 2 2300 which seemed much more together and modern and that was also trouble free and the only reason he swapped that one was because he couldn't resist an 825SLi that was at the dealer when he went in one day for a service. If I was to pick one now, it would be really difficult, but I think I would go for the Princess. I yearn to feel that super smooth ride quality again, sadly gone in modern cars.
The colour of that Rover is stunning
My art teacher in New Zealand had a yellow 1977ish Princess in the late 80s and was always waxing lyrical about the perfect smooth quiet cruise at 70 km/h.
Is this because it couldn't make it to 100kmh? 🤣
Every time I watch one of these videos, I feel guilty for not owning a British classic. I think I'd want to drive the SD1 and would enjoy being a passenger in the Princess. But happy to forgo the ownership experience of a 70s BL motor altogether. Sending much love from afar. 😍
Learned to drive in V8 SD1 . Great long distance car.
I had a princess 2, 2.0hls for 5yrs.
Paid £200 for it ! Not once did it ever let me down over many thousands of miles! Eventually sold it for £500, absolutely cavernous boot and almost as comfortable as a Citroën xm I purchased some years later! Genuinely one of the best cars I've ever had.
2 of my favorite “forbidden fruit” British cars. I have never seen a Princess in the metal. I did encounter a US spec SD1 as a child at the Atlanta Auto Auction in 1981. I got to sit in it. I loved it. My father had no interest whatsoever. He was and still is into German cars. He good naturedly mocked my uncle for buying a TR8. I thought the Rover was great and SO exotic to my American eyes even with the dorky USA spec bumpers and headlights. Great video.
Two very underrated cars at the time that are really now becoming quite sought after as classic cars. Alas we did not get the Princess in Australia. I would find it hard to pick a favourite out of those two. Love them both. 😍
My dad bought an 1800 HLS new when I was about 7 or 8. It was the car myself and my two sisters learnt to drive in. I drove it to the scrap yard with my dad when it couldn’t be fixed anymore. Apart from the heavy steering, was very comfortable and easy to drive. Despite all the newer cars since, my mum still says it’s the car she liked the most.
Beautiful cars. My friend's dad had a Princess circa 1978. I remember how bedazzled I was by its smoothness and quietness. It felt like I was in something special and I've always loved the styling.
I remember the electric blue Rover Sd1 on the tv advert and my dad said we'd buy one in that colour if he won the pools. I've never jumped on the 'let's slag off anything Leyland' bandwagon. I'm not suggesting they were without problems but as pieces of art and examples of automotive design I think both cars were sensational. Now that I'm well into my 50s, the driving style suits me far better than any wanna-be track car.
I bought a low mileage Princess series 1 1800HL back in the early 2000s for a laugh thinking it would be rubbish. I was surprised by just how wel thought through the design was - lack of hatchback aside.
The joke was soon on me, it changed my perception of BL cars and I subsequently bought a 2nd one - then a low mileage series 1 Allegro with the quartic wheel. All of these cars were impressively well built and drove surprisingly modern. My now-wife and I fondly remember the Allegro in particular and talk about it whenever we see one.
People need to now admit that the princess has aged fantastically!
It’s a great looking car
Fabulous video on the Princess, i owned a P Reg 2.2 HL automatic back in 85 i can honestly say after experiencing a drive in a Rolls Royce silver shadow they both seemed very similar in the comfort department .
As a kid I loved the way these two cars looked
My dad had a Austin princess 1.8 hl in 1982 REF225R in sandglow it was a beautiful car he ran it seven years just floated he took us all over the uk whith a Thompson t line caravan on the back never failed.he still says today best car he ever had he traded it in for a cavalier mk 2 saloon B reg nice car but never matched the princess.
Yes, difficult choice for sure. That Green colour edges the SD1 for me - it's mouth-wateringly lush.
When launched in 1975 the wedge shaped car was initially the Austin/Morris 1800/2200 and Wolseley Six, the Wolseley having the illuminated badge. All models soon became the Princess by 1976, and in 1982 restyled into the hatchback Ambassador. The low spec models have twin headlamps, the higher spec are Peugeot like trapezoidal.
I preferred the twin headlights models, they just looked more elegant.
My parents had a black princess with the same vinyl roof and gold go faster strips as the car you tested. I don't what engine size as I was only about seven but it was a manual. I really liked that car. This brought back some memories.
Did it have the big square headlights like this one, or 4 round ones? If it had the big single headlights, vinyl roof and coachlines, it was a 2200HLS just like this one :)
@@johnj3577 It had the square headlights.
…hey-ya, guys from a grownup “car kid” from “across the pond”…
…we Yanks have nearly zero exposure to the fascinating world of classic British motors…so thanks for your insight into these seminal BL offerings…
…here, we had similar issues surrounding two American “sub-compacts”, the Ford Pinto and Chevrolet Vega…and though appealing to two distinctly different market demographics, they both suffered from outside forces beyond the automakers’ control…
…the Vega and Pinto pioneered the widespread use of fastback/hatchback styling to economy cars; and were both victims of poor build quality and ever tight budgets…resulting in both being lambasted in the automotive press, which resulted in more-or-less permanent brand image problems…
…British Leyland, as you noted, was impacted heavily by toxic management labor relations, resulting in low assembly worker morale, poor build quality, and even cases of workplace sabotage…and the openly caustic commentary from Lord Stokes threw a literal spanned into labor relations at BL, further exacerbated by overall poor labor relations under the Tory administration of PM Edward Heath; and little improved under Harold Wilson’s second term adding to a hostile environment…
…agreed that the SD-1 was facing an uphill battle in the North American market; but this was more down to BL’s never having shown an interest in developing dealer/co-marketing agreements here…along with anemic marketing budgets…resulted in likewise less than stellar sales figures…
…the American market at the time would have accepted the Princess, as the major driver for the majority of buyers was fuel economy in the wake of the OPEC Oil Embargo and persistent price inflation during the period between 1974 and the early 1980’s…but, alas nearly zero marketing effort made any Princess cars a true oddity on North American roads…and same for the SD-1…though Rover did make a later effort through a joint -market agreement for the later Rover 800/Sterling with the Lincoln/Mercury Division at Ford during the latter 1980’s…
…the most prescient comment regarding these two examples of forward-looking styling, is that the average UK buyer felt that they were “too edgy for their tastes and sensibilities at the time”…
…thanks for your great window into these seminal cars for your fellow nerds out our way…and looking forward to further RUclips offerings…
…cheers and best regards…👀🙌👍🏽
The V8 in the SD1 is an old Buick designed motor, which was dropped by the American company and sold to BL.
I'd have the Princess. Memories brought back of my childhood and dad's bright blue HL with obligatory 70's vinyl roof.
Excellent video. I’d choose the SD1 because it looks great, and the bigger the engine the better
It’s amazing how complete the Princess design looks nearly 50 years on - it looked rather odd and ungainly for a long time when compared to the rest of the market but what a difference a bit of time makes to our perception of something? I find the same has become true of the Allegro - something that used to be likened to a Yorkshire pudding has become positively neat and tight compared to other cars that have become far bigger and fatter.
Most cars that looked really awkward at the time seem to look rather good many decades later.
Stag alloys on the Princess look so gorgeous no one did that back in the day
2 of the most beautiful cars EVER made! especially the Princess- A true beauty queen Princess in the motoring world!
Yes indeed!
I’d have the Rover SD1 on my drive all day every day! What a gorgeous car! 😍
Owned both,had princess early 80s and had 3 sd1s later 80s loved all of them great cars.
I like the shape of the Rover. Great video!
of the many cars i rode in when i was too young to drive, the princess was one i loved the most. a friend of the family had recently bought one for his wife showed it around to ALL his friends and neighbours. im from a time when even the princess (as a second car) was still something one would show off to everyone in his circle.
many years later, in the early 2000's, i had a chance to buy one of these cars, and at a very low price for the condition, which was immaculate by the way. i thought about it for a few days because it was still a chunk of change i wasnt sure i wanted to spend, even on a car as good as this one was.
i bought it anyway, because why not by a car that looked like it had just been built the day before. it was original brown, oddly the same colour as the neighbour had bought for his wife. but had recently been sprayed white which made her look more modern than the brown from the 70's, what a horrible colour for a car, brown!! the interior was soft leather, black to hide the dirt and very comfortable. black carpet with white edging finished off the sleek look i think they were going for. original engine block but everything that made it go broom broom was brand new, and i mean everything. the cylinders were bored and sleeved, with brand new pistons and rods, along with everything else i know nothing about.
i kept it for about 6 months, rarely drove it because i was afraid to damage it whenever i took it out. so there really was no point in keeping it so let it go, for a tidy, well more than a tidy profit! i made far more than i bought it for so gave the friends i bought it from a couple because i knew they could have made far more! anyway, thought id let you know
I've always loved the SD1, and in that pea green color, love it! Still, I like the Princess too, but if I have to choose, I'll take the SD1.
No bad thing!
In 79 I hated the looks of the Princess(I loved the MK 4 Cortina so what did I know) and loved the SD1.
Now I crave a Princess but would settle for the SD1.
Greetings from New Zealand where both were available new.
The police complained that the brakes on the SD1 overheated when the car was driven at 50 mph in reverse. They came up with a solution and that was to fit the Minilite alloy wheel. However, they wanted them to be factory fitted and the company that made them was not an approved supplier. I worked in supplier quality assurance at the time and we expended some serious effort helping the company adopt the necessary quality assurance procedures. They did so, became an approved supplier and the police got their alloy wheels.
The thumbnail caught me, I had a Vauxhall Chevette 4 digits higher than that rover! Good old BEC488S, sadly I was the last of the 13 keepers it had
Having owned 2 SD1’s, the O series 2000 and a last of the line 2600, I can certainly say the SD1 was an armchair comfort level motorway cruiser. One thing to watch on the 6 cylinder models is blocked oil ways which would starve the head of oil, but the V8, despite by that time being an old engine was bulletproof, still using pushrods rather than overhead cam in the fuel injected versions (currently filming a Marcos Mantula V8 rebuild with the fuel injected Rover V8).
Would love to have another one day, but as I’ve had the 4 and 6 cylinder ones, if I do get another it would have to be the V8
On the initial shot that SD1 Looked much smaller than the Princess, l don't think I've ever seen the two side by side like that over the years.
A now Retired Ex Lancashire Constabulary Traffic Cop friend of mine once told me that the V8 SD1 was the finest best suited Traffic car he ever drove in his career.
I have owned both cars back in the 70s and 80s and i have to say both cars were fantastic 2.2 HLS Princess was extremely comfortable and the 6 cylinder engine was superb the Rover SD1 3500 we had plus others were also superb especially the series 2 version oh and i did work for Rover at the time so a bit biased.But seriously loved them.
Thanks for sharing!
The Princess was also used in the first series of The Professionals, but it was seen briefly in the earliest episode. Gordon Jackson's Cowley used it as his personal car before switching to the SD1. Smart choice.
I loved both of these cars, back in the day.
I’d take the SD1 anytime
princess with stag wheels best ive seen
I love them both, but for me it has to be the SD1. My dad bought an ex plod mobile direct from a police car auction in 1986. It was a 1983 / Y reg 3500 SE, white (obviously), 5 speed manual. Despite being badged as an SE, it was properly poverty spec. As was the way things were for emergency vehicles back then. Extremely gutted he sold it before I was old enough to drive!
Lovely Jubbly, my childhood in cars including the Landcrab. Very good reminssing, but some of those cars were dire as I remember my father with a jug removing the water from the footwells of his Princess II everytime it rained in a certain direction.
My Dad had all three as well.. A Landcrab followed by a Princess and then 2 x SD1's. All fun cars but all had niggles. The front wheel fell off the landcrab, the princess burned loads of oil and rusted badly, and the SD1's gloveboxes were always full of water and he left big sponges in them to soak it up. It was always my job to squeegee them out every time it rained.
I dont know much about cars but I liked this video much - very entertaining. Loved the shapes!!! I appreciated the history behind the vehicles too :)
Thanks for watching! :D
Never rated Bache and his pseudo 365 and Aerodynamica clone. The Princess looks surprisingly neat in that colour.
Always loved the SD1. On my way back from school in South London my friend and I saw a debaged one a few months before it was launched. We spoke to the driver but he didn't let on what it was.
SD1 silhouette years ahead of its time.... look at the Tesla Model 3.
I've always loved the SD1, I was aged 11 when it was launched and will never tire of watching a video featuring one........................as for the Princess? BL just didn't quite pull it off!
What a good choice in cars - both are very very nice. I would take the Princess on weekends and the Rover as a daily driver! Thanks for nice content guys!
Thanks Kristian, you're welcome!
Remember both of these when new as a kid in NZ, the rover SD1 was like nothing else period ! Great review guys - cheers from Brisbane
I had a lovely electric blue SD1 but I would never put the electric window down if rain was forecast because it was an even money bet whether it would go up again that day
Informative, factual and very, VERY watchable - thank you guys
Thanks Martin, glad you enjoyed!
Would choose the Rover as i had a V8 Vanden Plas, V8-S and V8 Vitesse which actually had the 3.9 V8 conversion and with the 5 speed manual was a rocket ship of a proper drivers car back in the day, even today it would still impress. After seeing your lovely video on both of these cars i would still love to have them both in my garage as they bring back memories of happier simpler and better time's. Thank you so much for your time and effort in sharing this.😊👍😊👍
I grew up in the 70s and early 80s (like many of your subscribers I suspect), and even then these cars felt at best part-done and a poorer buyers' choice than the Ford or European competition. My Dad had an almost-new land crab for a period until the steering packed up i.e. turning the steering wheel didn't turn the front wheels...) with all of us inside the thing, fortunately only at town speed. Quite a memorable experience. He wouldn't touch a BL relic again.
If I were commuting, or doing long journeys I'd go for the Princess, but for sheer style and joy of owning a classic I'd have the SD1.
Just came across this channel through this vid, subscribed.
Now need some time for some binge watching.
Welcome along!
@@ClassicsWorldUK TY
I owned a 2600 SD1 in the early '90s. It was hampered by the typical Brirish issues, always an oil drip, dodgy electrics and rust like every other car of that period. Mine was build in 1980, the last off the series one. It was quick and comfortable with the quiet and silky smooth straight 6.
My father had SDI in 1977 the people would stop and stare it was a real showstopper
I like radical cars such as the Princess, the SD1 and the Ford Sierra.
Remember Rover had an open day and I had the pleasure of being driven around Rover's test track in a black SD1 with my father, Bob Swales who worked for Rover. It was awesome! One of those little moments you never forget.
It's funny they based the design on the Ferrari Daytona 364 GTB/4. :-)
Ive owned 7 sd1's over the years, still have 3 so sd1 for me all day long. I've never liked the princess styling at all. Great video though.
Childhood car was a SD1 1984 3500 SE in Blue with grey leather.
Both - Please!!
Had both... Miss them both!
Loved the princess amazing comfort and space my dad had the 2.2 HLS
Rover was a great looking car, especially the series 2. My first car was a 1986 SD1 2300 SE in moonraker blue. Bloody loved that car.
The SD1 its a masterpiece.
I’d go with the Princess even though I’m normally a Rover man. I prefer the styling & ride comfort of the Leyland Princess.
Rover SD1 is still a stunning car. When I was a child I remember a lot of SD1 in Italy, especially powered by italian engine VM diesel, the same of Alfa Romeo.
Had a SD1 2600 back in the day - starting on a cold day was hit or miss, inside felt vast, and the back end would overtake the front at every opportunity. Can't say I look back and miss it.
My dad bought new a 1982 SD1 2600s in moonraker blue, still has it in the garage and in all its 41 years it has never been driven in the winter
Your close-ups of the fascia and those wonky glove lockers underneath summarise the real problem of the Rover - appalling finish and build quality. Such a comedown from the P6.
“Glorious” (again)(and again)(…and again…)
Glorious!
My Grandfather had A black Leyland princess in the early 80's.
😀 Great stuff guys, you are taking me back to my childhood. I remember seeing the first one of these cars on the roads here in New Zealand, all those years ago. Now sadly, such a very rare sight to actually see one !...............................
Both are just as rare in the UK, sadly!
@@ClassicsWorldUK The UK, is sadly rare, make nothing now
Yes. Sadly once the ford escort, mk1,2 Cortina and Capri crowd got wind that you could use the bolt on big twin pot front brakes, that was the start of their demise. I knew many guys that bought these back in the day from people's back yards for fifty to a hundred dollars just for the conversion.. some perfectly good running cars simply sent to the crusher.
Bloody shame really.
My father was a total Rover loyalist...from my earliest memory and still my favourite P5 Coupe...he waited until changing to the P6 3500S....then to the SD1 V8 S...and then the SD Vitesse...finally moving to the 825 which turned out to be a complete lemon...spent more time in the shop than on the road...eventually enough was enough and he changed brands to Honda for the Legend...now well into his 80s he's a Lexus man....then, on the other hand, my grandfather was all Ford...finally finishing off with the Granada Ghia X estate. For me apart from the P5...I'd have the SD1 in V8 form.
My first car was Rover SD1 Vitesse from 1985 in Targa red. Bought in 2005 and had it for 17 years
If you want to check out a 70’s wedge, look up the “Leyland P76”. Even came out with a 4.4 litre version of the Buick/Rover alloy V8, only 4.4 litres instead of 3.5 litres, with the same deck height of the Buick 340, meaning it could take their cranks.
The SD 1 was a looker from the start, the Princess could have been a looker with a few subtle styling improvements.
People especially looked at the SD1 when bits and parts fell off, which happened on a quite regular basis.
@@tomsommer8372 Ah, an anti British, probably German. How are all the emission cheat Lawsuits going?
I have always adored Ford cars, and I have owned my 1974 Cortina Mk.3. for 47 years, but I must admit I always loved the look of the SD1, a truly beautiful car, and the one in this video is in superb condition, a joy to see her looking like she did when brand new, Bl might not have been good at build quality, but the guys in the Design Department did a fantastic job making such a stunning looking car.
Ford were not any better at build quality especially the British built cars. You got good and bad in BL just like most other makes back then apart from the Japanese. Me and my fellow workmates never bought Fords because the Escorts and Cortinas the company we worked for back then went through engines and gearboxes as if they were wear and tear items and when we left that company and bought our own cars and the BL cars that I bought at least were very reliable cars with no problems with build quality as were the other BL cars in my family as well.
I remember reading about the SD1 when I stopped at Heathrow en route to a school trip to Russia in July 1976, and thought it was interesting. I really like the Rover myself, but the Princess has its own charms.
Engineering excellence! You taking the Micky there
the sd1 should have been a world beater
They are both nice cars but my vote goes with the 2.2 Princess as well as it is a very cool car and more car park friendly than an SD1 !
My dad graduated from a love of P6’s to the SD1.
I went with him to look at a brand new SD1 at Lookers in Stockport. My dad was thinking of buying a brand new one and part ex’ing his earlier SD1, he’d never bought a new car before.
He pointed out to the salesman that the hatchback on the example in the showroom didn’t line up properly. The salesman inspected it, gripped on to the outer corners of the panel and with some gusto twisted it left to right, then stood back admiring his handiwork stating “they often leave the factory like that…”.
No surprise the British car industry died on its arse.
The SD1 Vitesse for me.
My father had an SD1 and it was my favourite car that he owned. It was the 2600 and I can concur that engine was silky smooth to drive.
Had a 2200HLS as a company car but seven power steering pump failures in six months, ouch! Went back to Austin and replaced with a Rover Sdi which did 60,000 miles in a little over two years before it blew a head gasket, loved that car and would love one on my driveway today if I could find a good one.
They both were cars of their time and we were lucky to have had them in our lives. I too would have them both and I definitely do like the Citroen that’s like a house on wheels
I’ve owned two Triumph Spitfires, a Triumph 2,000 and a V8 SD1 (ex police car). All great British cars, but the SD1 was fantastic.
What! No reference to 'Terry & June'?
Great review and love a SD1, another case of what could have been....with the benefit of hindsight can't help feeling Rover should have reinvented the SD1 instead of the retro 75 in the 90s, but by that time the Rover badge wasn't premium enough to compete with the germans sadly. The Princess maybe another example of a great design idea compromised by reality of engineering.
Between these 2. I'd jump into Rover and. I love the styling, the interior, and of course, it has to be series 1. All of those issues have been resolved ages ago by owner's clubs and forums.
The SD1 tailgate hinges used to break off, slewing the tailgate across the car. Also the bonnet cable would break, meaning a tin opener required to open bonnet. First and Last SDi's were V8 powered. I PDi'd the last of them.
My folks had an SD1 in the 80's, metallic maroon red with beige interior. It was a 3500 S, think it was a B reg. I remember the tailgate gas struts failing and the boot lid coming down on my 7 year old hand. Ouch. I still loved that Rover as a kid.
Tough one but think rover for me