[002] How much power and current do Milwaukee 18V tools use?
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
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Current (amps) and power (watts) testing of Milwaukee M18 18V cordless tools. 15 tools were tested for inrush current, no load power, typical power, heavy use, and then pushed to their limits to find a max power rating.
0:00 Intro
0:22 Literature review
1:11 Test Setup
1:58 Results
2:00 Surge Impact Driver - M18FQID - 2760
2:24 Compact Impact Wrench - M18FIWP12 - 2755
2:38 Brushed Oscillating Multi-Tool - M18BMT - 2626
3:00 FUEL Oscillating Multi-Tool - M18FMT - 2836
3:16 Backpack Vacuum - M18FBPV - 0885
3:40 Compact Blower - M18BBL - 0884
4:01 Hackzall Reciprocating Saw - M18FHZ - 2719
4:22 SDS+ Rotary Hammer - M18CHP - 2715
5:04 Gen 3 Hammer/driver drill - M18FPD2 - 2804
5:32 Circular Saw 165mm (6.5") - M18CCS55 - 2730
5:49 Angle Grinder 125mm (5") - M18CAG125XPD - 2780
6:26 Die Grinder - M18FDG - 2784
6:51 Quik-lok Line Trimmer - FOPH-LTA - 2825
7:11 Quik-lok Hedge Trimmer - FOPH-HTA - 2825
7:23 Quik-lok Pole Saw - FOPH-CSA - 2825
7:45 Discussion
8:47 Further Work
REFERENCES:
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It takes a real man to admit they were wrong. I assume.
The data is impressive. I'm also very impressed with how entertaining you've managed to make this video.
Thanks!
Wow man. What a thorough video. My amateur attempt at testing the current of a few impacts a while back…well I got a bit sidetracked. I wanted to dive deeper and get some better gear but life and other things got in the way. How long did it take to film, compile footage and edit this? You did a great job my friend. Very detailed testing and interesting results. Keep at it my friend. Excited to see what comes next🤘
Too long! Testing was maybe 3 days, spread over 2-3 weeks. That was in November '22. Like you, life got in the way, and I only just got around to editing.
I was glad I found your vid as the standard impact is a very common tool that I don't have. Without your video, I would have guessed the impact was only 30A.
Wow haha. Please continue, I've never seen this subject explored. Would love to see data for 18650s, 21700s, pouch cells, head-to-head versus corded, 2x18v v 36v batteries 🤓
Also, knock off batteries, the hikoki corded adapter, and a graph of power output drop over the drainage cycle in high load. And ambient temperature effects on power 😊
Thanks, mate! My next big test will be testing every M18 battery for internal resistance, max current, thermal overload, etc. I'll be limited to my Milwaukee M18 and Makita 40V for now, but we'll see how things go.
Amazing work👍
You should do a collab with the torque test channel!
They have a lot of experiments measuring the output power of tools by measuring rpm and torque. I see that technique as complementary to your method of directly measuring battery power draw.
To be honest, I'm surprised he hasn't measured current himself. He's got way better equipment than I do. You should also check out Tools Tested - he made a better dyno that measures true mechanical power and doesn't need the efficiency conversion of TTCs method.
@@toolscientist Tools Tested's rig is def the GOAT, just maybe not as modular and has lower limits. We're mainly interested in comparative data, which tool does the job better than another. Not after a specific figure, as this video also points out many people would have no idea their drill was doing like 2000W, so if they see a drill pull specifically 100AMPS that may not mean anything to them. We looked into showing live amps, or voltage like Shop Tool Reivews does, but at the end of the day knowing which tool was pulling more wattage doesn't tip the sacles one way or the other, what matters is what comes out of the business end of the tool when you're comparing brands. One impact wrench taking more current than another to run doesn't mean anything to even me (not to say the science isn't worth looking at), so I'm afraid most people would be lost with these extra data points.
@@TorqueTestChannel see now all of that would be fascinating to me, but I guess I'm at an extreme end of the tool nerd spectrum.
Love that testing - pure professionalism. subbed
The dedication, man - mighty impressive. Props!
I'll be watching the rest of your videos. Great content.
Very interesting and surprising results
Great video! It answered every question I had about cordless tool current draw.
It wasn’t until I was watching the drill that I then realized that we can simply look to real life experiences to answer basic questions of wattage comparison.
For example if a corded power tool performs a certain level of performance (in terms of time it takes to accomplish a given task) and its cordless counterpart does the same (assuming all other factors being nearly identical) we can infer that their wattage use will be comparable. In essence how much work was done, BUT I much prefer and appreciate having solid data to back up such a broad statement.
*And YES i’m being somewhat coy by using watts and its definition of work done but in this very limited scope it funnily enough works.
Yeah, to remove the same amount of wood/steel/whatever requires a certain amount energy (Joules) and doing that in a set time gives J/s or watts. The brushless tools should have a slight advantage as their motor's are more efficient (corded tools are mostly using brushed universal motors), but it won't be as much as brushed vs brushless 18V tools as the corded tools have a voltage advantage. A lot of battery tools can exceed what you can pull from standard AC plugs (usually 2,400W), but only in short bursts or the battery overheats. Battery tools are still behind in continuous use tools like vacuums. You can design a battery vacuum to be as powerful as corded, but it'll only run for 10-20min, and no one wants that.
Fantastic info, thanks!! Always wondered about this
This is exactly the kind of video I trying to find for over a year now! I've been wanting to create a charging station in my canopy for all my batteries, and maybe a massive packout battery back with a lead coming off it to power tools. This is a great starting point, thanks mate!
Great info .... comes in handy when looking at rebuilding a M18 pack. Helped me settle on the cells I wanted to buy looking at the tool / tools I would use the battery in. Thanks!
Definitely getting some ProjectFarm vibes here, and that's quite a compliment.
Mor please!! :D Your videos are great, watched them all!
Shake 'n' bake!
Fascinating. I recently had an old corded SDS DeWalt drill get very hot doing a test with 117mm diamond core bit in a thick paving block. Stayed warm for at least 2 hours.
The same test with a new corded Makita diamond core drill had no rise in temperature even through 275mm of brick wall.
The DeWalt SDS needs a service but highlights horses for courses. The 800 Watt Makita is rated for 152mm dry cut. The DeWalt equivalent corded diamond core drill is 1300 Watt rated only for 117mm hole.
My old corded DeWalt multi-cutter wastes a lot of power making noise and vibrating my hands and the material. New 18V Milwaukee is smooth, quiet, and effective. Older and lower quality gear may eat up amps to make lots of noise; higher quality newer tools use fewer amps more effectively or same amps to achieve much more
Were you in hammer+drill or drill-only mode, and was it the gearbox or motor that was hot? I always thought diamond cores were drill only and carbide cores were hammer+drill, but I've never done any core holes.
I've got a rotohammer gearbox nearly too hot to touch from repeated drilling and it took a long time to cool down as there's a lot of thermal mass in the gearbox. I didn't think drill-only would produce too much heat in the gearbox as most of the heat comes from the piston compressing the air. Maybe it was your motor that got hot?
Yeah. Mechanical parts wear.
Great video, subbed
This is what I've been looking for - awesome.
Would love to see the voltage drop on a smaller battery, reason being I bought one of those Ryobi 18V lawnmowers, it came with a 4Ah battery and it'll constantly stall. I've found out that it was most likely the BMS shutting off due to voltage sag on a 5S2P battery (I've tested a 5S1P battery and it would barely cut more than strand of grass at a time).
I did 3D print a 2 battery adapter that allowed me to run 2x4Ah battery in parallel, and that has greatly reduced the amount of stalls on the lawnmower.
It is always surprising how much current some tools draw. I have tested some briefly and mostly with larger tools. People usually get the blowers wrong, they blame the batteries for being crappy because the blowers will not run long at all. When you tell them the blowers draw more steady current to move that much air than most tools most people think you're flat out wrong!
I'd love to see some more power testing to see where things like chainsaws and big grinders sit. My tool collection is relatively small.
@@toolscientist I have received a lot of questions about the EGO equipment and I have started testing on some in the past, but struggle to find the time to even get half as thorough as you have with the Milwaukee. I have bought one of the Inline meters as you mentioned briefly (as you showed some of the other channels) and I have used it for my own learning, but I totally agree that it's not the best way to test. It really will take much more time to do it correctly like you did here. I have it on my list, but my bench stays full...🤣
I did a load test on Milwaukee 18V nailer guns. For this test I used a 9AH Flexvolt battery pack as my power source. I did ran these test with different equipment and methods, but the end results are pretty much the same. One thing I didn’t get around of doing is testing them at different voltages (stage of charge) of battery pack. So the results I’m about to share was done with a fully charged 9AH FV battery pack (20.5v) Framing nailers 30 and 21 degrees maximum current draw 56A. 15g and 16g brad nailers maximum current draw was 24.4A. 18g Brad nailer maximum current draw was 19.4A. When firing these nailers the current readings I was getting aren’t consistent, it would always fluctuate 1-1.5A +/- though it never suppress maximum amount that I have listed. Cheers 👍🏻
Interesting! Nailers would be hard as the motor is only on for about 0.5sec. Did you have datalogging or were you just using a clamp meter?
Great video i have considered doing some of these testing but i doesn't have as many tools and have searched a couple times but wasn't even searching this time just recommended
Glad you did the weed eater because all my big batteries are trash and the 5ah that'd not new runs about as long as my 9s but I was thinking about building a backpack but I don't really need to do that much weed eating but was thinking I needed the I fo for wire gauges I have seen something similar on Ali express with 4 battery slots and a cord and I guess only being like 4tf long you could get buy with lighter gauge wire but 12awg still sounds undersized but 8 would probably not be convenient
RUclips never forgets! Or someone with a similar watch history to you saw this video.
The 5ah should be ok, just use it on low speed. I prefer low speed as it's quieter, throws less grass, and uses less line. Doesn't seem to slow me down.
Nice job on the testing and custom current test rig!
Glad the RUclips algorithm has changed and actually recommended something I’d like than the usual clickbait garbage. Subbed!
I'm still fairly click-baity. Best to think of my channel as useful information disguised as click-bait trash 😄
Uing my QuickLok string trimmer and 12Ah battery a lot; Managed to melt battery case where the connectors are (apparently I'm not alone by judging of stories on internet). Sent to Milwaukee for replacement, and was told to send in the motor unit too! This was replaced too and also got new string holder. After this no more heating!
i used to be a milwaukee fanboy, i got into the hercules harbor freight line and they are insane. tons of powe from everything.
Great information! Here is an interesting test you should try. Bypass the battery and tool connecting pins and run a #4 wires directly from the battery position and negative and the tools position and negative wire leads. You would need to run 2 additional small wires.
Isn't that what I did? Just the positive was connected with copper strip and negative was connected with thick wire.
@@toolscientist In my opinion the connecting terminal blocks on Milwaukee and DeWalt batteries and their tools aren’t all that great. Could be better! Look at Makitas 18V and 40V tools and batteries connecting terminal blocks.
I think Joel Gomez would be flattered to be included in such a thorough and rigorous test video @integza 7:37
Just watched everything, your videos are really great!
Btw you weren't wrong, everything can peak way above its rated power, but S1 rating is what we think of when quoting power of a motor, or the level at which it won't overheat. Ofc it is always a bit murky with power tools since they are often used in a "peaky" way but still :)
That's pretty much how the IRL argument went. I said it might do 1,500W (I was skeptical of a drill doing 80A without hitting a current limit, but I was very wrong about that!) but would be smoking in under a minute. I changed it to me losing the argument as it's a funnier story :-)
Funny story is, I'm pretty sure that argument was with that guy that came into r/Makita and talked nonsense about Makita having terrible motors vs Milwaukee, and LFP batteries being better for power tools. It was on an oztooltalk video, and was part of the reason I decided to start making videos. I'd been commenting on a few channels to try and get them to test more, but I realised if I wanted really in-depth testing I'd have to do it myself.
@@toolscientist ah I think I know that guy lol, was also on reddit, talked some real bs yeah. In any case keep up the good work, really awesome stuff!
Looks very good, Maybe find an electrical person whit an oscilloscope so you can Graf the power use ( startup spike and all other good stuff )
Yeah, some proper data-logging would be a lot easier than stepping through video frames, and it would give more accurate data.
I'm just commenting here now so that I can say I did when you have a million subscribers.
I love the SouthPark "Xenu" in this. 😍 😆
Looking forward to the demo saw. I can't wait for the forge 12ah so I can flatten a battery before it overheats (hopefully)
I'd love to see what it can pull (probably 150A), but I doubt I'll ever get my hands on one. Maybe someone in AU will eventually contact me and offer to let me test theirs.
@@toolscientist I am in Australia. How do I PM you?
Sydney? Go to my channel page and click on the blurb ("Answering the questions that no one cares about...") and there should be an email link. It's definitely visible on dekstop, not sure about mobile.
Great info. What I was looking for!
Was thinking about making a power station with 4-6 12Ah batteries and 2 9 Ah batteries. Would appreciate your scientific input which setup method is best. There are several videos put there but conflicting what the best, safest and most efficient method is (for example paralell vs series connecting) and the advantages and disadvantages of connecting different battery sizes and if a second bms could help manage pack health when connecting them in series or paralell. And what to do with cell imbalances in milwaukee packs when making a power station (don't know uet how to read cell imbalance from the pack, I think the pcb doesn't support this function. Curious what the middel 2 pins of the pack do in this regard and if we can read cell balnces from them?
Generally series is better as you don't need to worry about imbalanced currents. However, once you go over 60V, you need to be very careful as you can severely hurt yourself. If you're trying to make a 240V AC inverter, your best bet would be the new M18 110V inverter plugged into a 110-240V transformer.
@@toolscientistWhy would anyone need 240V AC??
Sorry, that's an American joke. 😂
The SerendipitySue RUclips channel has some interesting battery configurations on some of his projects - but it is all Ryobi stuff.
I'm not surprised that most of the tools under normal load come close to their corded equivalent.
Excellent video ! Huge amount of work to compile all these datas ! But I don't understand how the nickel strips, which are approximately 0.15-0.20mm, can provide so much amps... In theory a strip of 0.15mm and 7mm wide can support ~14A of discharge current. So it means that in practice it can handle much more ? A video with a thermal camera on the battery could be very informative.
They're most likely nickel plated copper. They're 0.25mm thick. Narrowest part is a fusible link that's 3.6mm wide. Project Farm recently did a short-circuit test and got 390A, falling to 360A after 2sec before melting the link. ruclips.net/video/Xf0qqsRMKpM/видео.html
have you tried this with the high output battery? the fuel stuff is supposed to draw more when coupled with the xc high output battery. I have the new sds with a 5.5Ah high output and if im taxing it then it will get through a whole battery in a few of minutes so potentially could be drawing a whacking current
All these tests were done with a 12Ah High-Output, which was the most powerful M18 battery at the time (although the 6/5.5Ah is pretty close and sometimes a bit better). I think the 6Ah Forge battery is more powerful, but not available in AU yet.
Nice work!! Any plans to test the big yard blower or the 16” chainsaw?
I'd love to see how high the chainsaw and demo saw can go. I have no need for either, though. I was hoping other people would pick this up and fill in the blanks. Maybe they will now that it's getting more views.
@@toolscientistI have both of those tools. I just need to make a meter maid setup like you. How did you make the tool to battery meter adapter? Is it 3D printed?
@@Benbear2022 yeah, 3D printed adapter, 0.6mm copper sheet cut into terminals and flame soldered, and 4 AWG cable. For just one or 2 tools, I'd prob just use thick cable and bits of rubber/silicone to hold them tight against the terminals. The middle pins only need thin wire.
@@toolscientist Sorry, I just saw your reply. Could you send an STL file I have a 3D printer. I do have quite a bit of Milwaukee tools that I could use it for and would be interested in making the same meter maid you have.
Before watching.. my cordless drill has a ton of torque!
For the rotary tools:
Pulling up a load suspended on a rope could be interesting and yet intimidating with these tools..
I had thought of making a load with a capstan. A small weight on the down side to maintain tension, and a large weight on the up side to provide a load. The highest I can lift is only about 4m, though, so probably wouldn't be enough time. I could use gears and a heavier weight, but then it becomes as complicated as other methods.
👍
@toolscientist I saw data somewhere (maybe toolguyd?) that's showed the cells used in the 6ah HO had the highest current capacity, and therefore output/lowest internal resistance, rather than the 12ah HO.... probably wouldn't have affected the numbers much. Just for info, I might be wrong though.
The cells of the 6ah are definitely better, but the 12ah has 3 parallel sets. On paper, the 12ah has the lower overall resistance. In practice, the cells in the 12ah degrade faster, so you can get a 6ah that's more powerful than a 12ah. All in all, they're both pretty close.
@@toolscientist ah yes, forgot there were 3 rows!
Can you do the same tests for Makita's 40V line? I am trying build a battery for 40V tool from Makita and I thought 40A battery and BMS would be enough but after seeing your video it seems that it is not enough.
I have a small number of XGT tools that I'll be testing in the next few months. Handheld vac, mini dust blower, big leaf blower, planer, track saw, impact wrench, and router. Handheld vac is 7 amps max (280W). Leaf blower is 29A on turbo (942W). Haven't tested any others yet.
Remember that 40V MAX (36V nominal) use half as much current as 18V, so you only need 75A to match the highest I've seen from Milwaukee. If your battery has a 40A continuous rating, then it can probably do 80A for several seconds. Unless it's a LiPo, they tend to be rated for their peak discharge.
@@toolscientist Wow, thanks for the information. I appreciate it.
Max current battery I could find is Molicel INR21700-42A which is 45A max. But there are higher current rated BMSs out there.
My concern is I don't know if I will broke my tools with 10 of these batteries and a 10S 40A BMS.
@GokhanTurkeli the cells will be fine, they are rated higher than the Murata VTC6A used in the official BL4040.
Your BMS might be a bit low and will cut out early on some demanding tools like saws, grinders, etc.
Is the BMS designed for XGT? XGT tools won't run without digital communication on the small inner pins on the tool.
@@toolscientist I am writing this reply for the 3rd time. RUclips doesn't publish my comments:) No, it is a regular BMS. Daly 10S 40A. I am not giving the Amazon link. Maybe it is the reason for not publishing my comment.
I was planning to buy a charger box from Aliexpress which has all the pins but I am not sure if the BMS I chose is capable of communicating through those pins.
Do you know how to make your own XGT battery? Maybe I should do it:(
@GokhanTurkeli yeah, youtube nukes any external links and doesn't tell you. I learnt that the hard way, too!
There are (or were) some 3rd party boards on aliexpress. There's a guy that's a regular at r/makita on reddit who has made his own XGT batteries. He would be the best person to ask. I'll look up his reddit post and see if I can link it. I think as the owner of this channel I can post links
it turns out why the gen 3 drill constantly malfunctions
It definitely runs hot. I suspect they didn't give it an overcurrent limit as it was released before the high output batteries. It'll be interesting to compare it to the gen 4.
@@toolscientist yes no overcurrent limitation and no fuse as protection milwaukee needs improvement
Have you let the magic smoke out of any tools?
Not yet, too poor to sacrifice my tools right now. I would like to get some temp probes in there, load the tool up, and figure out how long it would take to start smoking the motor wires. At 150A it's probably less than 10seconds!
Saw all your videos. I need you to post more, get some shorts in from your current videos ok? Let's see if that up s your views
Whoa 155A！
The best high power 21700 batteries I can found are rated 11C... I wonder how long can those batteries last😨
That battery is 5s3p, so 50A per cell. They're Samsung 40T cells. Continuous rating of 30A, so 50A isn't terrible. I think it'd thermal in under a minute at 150A, though.
@@toolscientist Oh I thought that was the same 12Ah battery, I didn't watch the video thoroughly enough XD
And I REALLY hope those batteries has built in balancing feature, current drain at that level will almost surely cause imbalance of the pack
I am surprised how much power these take with no load
I'm guessing most of it is driving the fan. They have to massively over-design the fan as the tool is hottest when it is under heavy load and only doing around 40% of its no load speed. So at no-load, the fan is moving about 4x as much air.
@@toolscientist Because the tools are brushless, Milwaukee Fuel range use massive enameled copper coils for their motors, the current draw under no load will be sunk into just energising those coils, theoretically even if there was no spinning rotor (but they don't get energised without a rotor since they require the positional feedback).
@Nitrxgen i think both are true. If you removed the fan, you'd see a significant drop in current. But, like you said, with it being brushless there will always be current flow due to the whatever RPM limit the ESC has.
If you "unlocked" the ESC and drove the FETs at 100kHz, you'd get very little current as the coils/inductors would block most of it. This would probably result in the rotor just twitching around or exploding, though!
Don't you hate it when you get into an argument like you did and when they tell you they where "correct" that it is a 1500 W tool, the first thing you think of is "you are technically correct, but it is not going to sustain that power over some time period, but I can not say that until I have proof since the person will not understand it".
When you have proof it will still be brushed off. But you will have a feeling "at least I know what is correct".
Happend to me too many times.
And that's pretty much how it went irl, although I never got back to them as it was a YT comment so too hard to dig up. In fact they didn't even respond to my request for them to post a video of them doing it. This version is just more entertaining :-)
At the time I said it might hit 1,500W, but I doubt it could sustain it for long without smoking, and that it's dumb to rate tools based on their peak power as nearly every corded tool and motor are rated for continuous. It still surprised me, though. I would have thought it would have an overcurrent limit.
Chainsaw definetly. It drain (and heat) le batterias wery fast
Milwaukee is like F1,plenty of power short life.
wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
@ave should be aware of ur stuff
'1500W'
'Milwaukee 18V tool'
Jesus if true then that would be ~83.3 amps peak draw at full speed.
Well the peak was actually 150A
The batteries in the 12ah on paper, are not even capable of 2500w. 🤷♂️
Continuous is 25A × 3 rows = 75A * 18V = 1350W. But this is short bursts, so it goes higher.