SHUNT Modification WOW!
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2023
- Finally attempted the shunt mod on my ebike.
DONOR BIKE is a TREK Marlin 2021 size Large Frame 29er
Vandervolt Conversion Kit 1500w, 52.17.5ah.
Thanks for watching
MOTO MACHINEZ UK
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After having done this to my 40+-1A controller on a 2000W hub motor, it went up to ~5000W power draw on a fully charged battery (power monitored by BMS app on smartphone).
What stays the same:
Top speed remains the same. You won't get more RPM unless you increase the voltage. Your controller usually can't handle much more voltage, so a controller replacement is necessary for that.
What changes:
Torque changes. And it changes just as much as the power draw.
5000W are 2.5 times more than 2000W. And it really felt like 2.5 times more powerful, if not even more.
With that being said, I was lucky my controller didn't die... I had 5000W sustained load for 20 or 30 seconds which is a lot...
What else is great? You are always fast... No matter what the battery percentage, you always get max current, so you are always torquey. The top speed drops as the voltage drops, but the torque pretty much remains.
What you need to consider:
4 things.
•Controller
•Battery
•Cables
•Motor
The controller will 50/50 be able to handle the current... I would like do a shunt mod on my Laotie Ti30 escooter, but it already draws stupid amounts of current, 85A to be precise... I don't believe the MOSFETs are rated for more than 100A... Even if they were rated for 150A, it might still not have been enough, since I feel I would once again have at least a 2 times increase in current...
So please, do know that your controller might die...
•Battery:
Your battery must be able to output the current you will need.
That includes the BMS, the Cells themselves but also the Cables used!
If the BMS is only rated for +10% the over current protection will trip and you'll lose power. Or in the case of a fuse, the fuse will burn. Worst case scenario the BMS will burn...
The cells themselves: A 4P or 5P off the shelf battery won't be able to handle more than 2500W (or ~50A). Every cell should be able to handle ~10A and no more than that.
In my case, I had built a huge 13S10P battery that is able to handle 5500W continuous no problem. (100+A capable).
But in the case of an off the shelf battery in a 4-5P configuration, you are looking at 35A continuous and 60A peak. In the case of a 2.5 times increase in power, you will need up to 80A peak (and a peak of up to 5 minutes if you are climbing a mountain, in which case that is a considered a continuous load of course... But even if you lower the power on inclines, you still look at 55A continuous and peaks of 80A when in full power. The cells will really be unhappy with that much current draw... They might even catch on fire...
Lastly and just as important as the cells, is the cable used... On these kits the cable is barely suitable for the amperage of the controller. A thin cable can still deliver the required power for a short amount of time. However, after some seconds the cable will get hot, red hot even. It might melt the insulation and produce a fire... That was my main consideration when doing that mod. The power cable on the controller was too thin even for 40A continuous. Meaning it would get hot (just below the point of being too dangerous) on a mountain uphill. Now I was pulling 90-100A and was climbing a mountain...
Surprisingly, the motor over heated and stopped working before the cable could. So... Yeah... Your mileage may vary...
After a while it cooled down and I was back on riding.
On that note: Although not very common, your motor might also fail... I've had motors fail on me because they had a sophisticated PCB inside... If your motor is stupid enough, it should be fine...
So... Would I recommend the shunt mod? Only if you are confident you can have another controller available... Also, first make sure your battery and cables can take it... A loose controller cable isn't as dangerous as a hot battery cable touching some already abused hot lithium cells. If a fire starts in the battery, you might be fast, and calm enough to disconnect the battery and throw it away, but in most cases you will just jump off of your bike and watch burn untill nothing remains. Li-Ion fires aren't extinguishable. You have to wait until the fire ends unfortunately...
So be careful...
Good on you showing some good tips and tricks. shunt modding was my go to when i was younger and couldn't afford better equipment!!!
It's definitely worth trying and learning. Start from the bottom kinda thing. Thank you yes I just showed from a novices point of view .
Cheers
I just done that mod on my 1500 watt ebike, wow, it really moves now on full throttle, thanks for the information 👍
Just done mine
@@richie8214
hi Richie mines a Voilamart 1500w rear hub with a 52v20ah battery I put some solder over 1 of the 2 shunts but no difference, just wondering did you bend the 2 shunts together then solder across the top to stick them together?
And is your controller still working fine?
Tomorrow I'm going to most likely solder the 2 shunts together and see how it goes
Hi Mark did you solder the 2 shunts together like in this vid, today I added a small amount of solder to 1 of the 2 shunts in my Voilamart 1500w rear hub stock controller but I can't notice a difference at all (I did only add a very small amount of solder as I was worried about frying the controller) ..
Tomorrow I'm thinking of squeezing the 2 shunts together and soldering them closed across the top, I'm just wondering if you did it just like in this vid and if your controller is still working fine?
@@mickyb.8014 yes, I squeezed the shunts together then soldered them across the top, I did try soldering a small amount of the shunts but didn't notice any difference, I've done several hundred miles since and everything seems fine
@@Markcain268 Thanks Mark, top stuff, that's all I needed to know, appreciated, 100% squeezing/soldering in a couple of hours when I'm round my folks house as my dad's the one who owns a soldering iron lol, but yeah you're right about just adding a bit of solder, I did this (to just the 1 of 2 shunts) and well it did nothing to the torque or power, I'm looking forward to doing it properly this time, might be able then to get to 40 as 37mph is my best speed so far, although it's more torque really what I'm after as it's all bloody hills here in West Yorks.
Cheers Mark, it's appreciated!
Thanks for your reply. If you have problems with that up grade get a 40amp or 45amp controller and up grade your wheel to 2000wat you will definitely feel a difarnce in torgue and speed. I no its more money but if you want to have power when you need it it's great you do t have to go to 72volt on 2000 wat and 40 to 45amp controller you will get 50+mph I done that but I had to get lcd sw900 I don't like it the good thing about it is pas 1to5 5 is top speed the other controllers it's k9 I think it gives you more checks than the sw900 but I've done that upgrade on another controller but u can try it out due to weather to be onist England isn't the country for eltric bikes. I wish I lived in calaforna or Australia. The summer is to short in England plus we are lucky to get three months of good weather that's no good if you like to modify what ever it is out side even DIY build something out side. England is a depressing country
Hi there, The trick is, After you do a shunt mod on your controller. you need to go into the setting's on your display and change your amp's from the factory setting of 12amp's to 16amp's . And then you will see the difference...And you can go up to 20 amp's. but you will drain the battery very quickly..lol..But what fun...
Shunt modding a controller will make it see a lower than actual amperage. So im theory, changing the current in the settings won't do much of anything...
@@FishFish1995 Try it and see. I have. And it dose on my ride.
Great vid, wonder how reliable it will be 👍🏻,
Love these vids, if it kills the controller will you upgrade it to get more torque, and what would you get?
Thank you and thr same I'm wondering if or how long it will last.
To be honest if it does break I shall probably just replace as I've got some bits to make a new bigger and faster build but still waiting for some things before I start it.
Will be double the torque nearly and faster
Cheers
ayo i have the same kit and horn as you, the horn is awesome ay haha, great vid cheers i might do this
Good choices I'm happy with both. Horn is obnoxiously loud itsgreat
Hi I for got to mension your controller you up graded on a 2000wat wheel and battery 52v17.5 you will shoot forward OK its really fast membies that's why my fuse blown it was a 30amp so if ued 35amp I was told not to go over 40amo as I eicook my controller it's a shame because the shunt bars are a great idea all bloody ideas sometimes comes with a prise
High did you join shunt bar together with solder how did yo find power and what fuse did you use I know you have 1500wat motor what is the amp of your controller I would be greatfull if you can give me a reply the fist time I did this it blew. Fuse thanks
I think it's all documented in upload in detail.
Yes soldered the bars and had to put a 50a fuse in the battery. 35a controller
I just purchased a dual 1000w 48v motor ebike. I'm trying to figure out if I can use a static switch or a remote relay to do the shunting.
Interested to hear if possible ? I don't have a clue and I've been asked a few time now.
Dual 1000w I keep seeing them for sale. What's its like to ride ?
@@motomachinezuk8786 I'm 6' & 260lbs. My old 500w fat tire took me to 22mph and I was pleased for 2 years at 2k miles, but now I can do 30mph and the torque is insane for my weight! Philodo H8 is rear motor PAS and dual motor only with throttle, which is nice when you want to just cruse using PAS and hit'em hard with dat throttle!
@Brent Polk i shall check them out I've seen a few and they look interesting. I like the sound of the torque
its not possible coz long switch cable will have a high voltage drops that controller is trying to measure. Shunt mod is mod that decrease voltage drops on shunt
hvd-3 800w my controller has a R005 resistor I'm looking to place another on top to half the ohm. To 0.0025. .... The resistor is a 0.0005....question is what watt do i buy 1w 2w 3w 4w 5w... I haven't a clue can u help please
I don't have a clue mate I just fit kits etc... and the odd shunt other than that I'm a novice. Sorry
Hi what Amp is your controller and what size is your battery is it 52 v 20amp thanks ps looking forward to your videos summer around the corner nice country side where you live
Hi its 35 +1 amp and battery is 52v 17.5 ah. This is my daily bike. What area are you from ?
@@motomachinezuk8786 hi I'm from Newcastle it's Hebburn tyne and Wear. I did live on the coast blyth could see the sea from bedroom window I would say four miles had a great teliscooe it was German it was called opterlyh 60zoom lens great views
@Colin White nice area up there too ? Not like the fens etc... can't wait for some decent weather to appear
Yeah you could really do with a more powerful soldering iron. Next time pinch the shunts together on one end and and solder along the seem where they join, makes it way easier and also easier to reduce the resistance without adding too much solder. Your probably on reducing the resistance a bit with all that cold solder joining, but should still work fairly well as a shunt mod.
Thank you for this constructive advice without knocking me, positive feedback, appreciate that.
Ah that sounds easier pinching 1 end and doing a seem. Pure novice here and if I ever do it again I know a better way now plus get a not so budget iron. Thank you
Nice one man thinking of doing this mod so that is some great advice and I agree with moto very nice way of telling him the right way to do the mod 👊👍
Hi I've done that job on mine my controller is 35+2amp the shut bars it's best to grip them and bring the. Together then I little solder along top. I've got 2000wat the controller is the same as a 1500wat it give me more torgue and speed. Doing this up grade it goes 40mph problem I had was the fuse I had a 30amp fuse blew
I was told to put 35to 40amp fuse I found my controller before fuse blew it was cold motor was cold and battery.so for safety I took controller lid of to take solder of to make it thinner I cought the mosfet tiny spark ran the bike I think the power has dropped just very slightly. So I've bought another controller same make I also bought 45amp controller it came with display sw900 have you had no trouble with that upgrade and what was your top speed
Hi and yes a few people suggested pinching bars together and it sounds slot easier that way. Same with the fuse on this battery.
It's pulls alot better but not sure about top speed as I've lost alot when I put a chunky tyre on that I want to change once worn out
@@motomachinezuk8786 this upgrade not recomendad it put to much on components it will eventually burn out. I've spoke Tony from vortex he nows all about eltric he went to collage in not going to chance it. I've walked home before sometimes on these bike if the electrics burn out its hard to ride the bike. I'm not trying to put you off. Sometimes I watch these things and I think great I will try that but when someone gives advice not to do it it's best not to do it. Do what I've done you can by a sabvaton controller 40or45 amp I bought mine pretty cheap on ebay new its not a sabvaton but its just as good it cost £69 sabvaton is £149 you have to use sw900 display on your 1500wat 48+moh mine is a little more its peace of mind these controller are made for this perpis. I think I've seen your controller it's quite long if you use 35+2 amp you will get better speed I've ordered one thinking I was going to that upgrade with the shunt bars the first time I done it I put to much solder on so I took the top of to take a bit more off I caught the mosfet with iron a spark happened my bike still works but I've lost a bit power. I'm not doing that no more it's to dangerous and to put bigger fuse in is worse I thought it would be OK don't do it sorry for long messages
Would it be possible to do this but with a switch at the front to control if you want the extra power or not
I'm not sure to be honest I a novice learning myself and I've not heard of this yet on a shunt mod
@MOTO MACHINEZ UK oh right not to worry mate I just think it would be pretty cool it would be like having a turbo switch definitely gonna look into it
You could do it, but you'd need a suitable relay positioned as close to the shunt as possible, the shunt resistance is very low, measured in milli ohms, even a thick copper wire has some resistance
Hi ive sent message about 45amp controller. This controller is the same amp is mine but my printed circuit is half as wide to yours plus my mosfets are held in with metal bars your's are screwed in at side my shunt bars can be seen on one end so I don't have to take the hole controller apart. Why I'm saying this I wonder if both of them are the same in power mine is 35+1amp so like I've got a big empty space length wise and the controller are the same size length and width
I get you so insides are quite different compared with mine. Sounds very similar for sure
Hi there moto I know it's not related to the video but I need some advice on my new stomp z3160 a reply would be amazing
Hello mate what's the problem then ?
@@motomachinezuk8786 hi moto, i have the 2017 z3160, I'm just wondering if you kno what carb would be best for it and if there are any upgrades that make the bike more reliable engine wise if that makes sense haha
I've past comment what you should do is buy a 2000wat kit the controller is the same as a 1500wat a 2000wat kit does 35moh on a calm day with slight decline it gets to 40mph so if you do same upgrade on the controller but nip the shunt bars to gether then put a thin solder along the top. I found my torque was unberleavable and power but after a day fuse blew I sent messages to Chris's crossing wires in America Chris said to use 40amo fuse he's done the same up grade that was last year he's bike now is a flying machine you should log on to him on utube he gives alot of answers and helps and I learned alot but I've v bought a controller 45amp display sw9000 now this controller is serpose to give me 53mph but I find its a bit to big and wide and heavy so I'm thinking of returning it I've bought another controller same sa both of us 30+2amp and Im going to do the upgrade again the other controller I've had for four years but I cought mosfet to take some solder from the shunt bars. Yes I could feel a hell of speed and torgue but it's better if you yes 2000wat motor on your controller
I did a shunt mod on my 500w ebike but it keeps turning my battery off after about 5 seconds of riding. What am I doing wrong?
Possibly too much solder on the shunt, mine did this and I just dialed back on the solder a little. Always test beforehand
AWESOME!! I will give it a try. Now that I think about it I did put a lot of solder@@OriginalZyreKz
The battery can also be a limiting factor as usually the BMS is current limited as well. If its not that it could also be that perhaps some of the traces need beefing up or if current limiting is programmed into the microcontroller. I have toyed with the idea of buying a very simple controller with no real current sensing, and just adding lots more mosfets to it. Or trying to design a brushed mechanical commutator which runs from the position of the motor. But then perhaps just use a brushed motor. Just ideas i guess.
Can you say what mudguards you have?
Pollisport rear and front. And a mucky nutz gut fender on the down tube
What make is that controller I no you have 1500 watt Watts the amps my controller is for 1500wat and 2000wat inside there is half a circuit board my mosfets are held in place with these bright metal bar's yours are screwed to side of casing why I'm asking your controller has got to better than mine your brave to put a 50 amp fuse in because this upgrade can cause a fire. I think if you can get one if it was blown a 40 you should try 45 amp for safety but if everything is cool we'll good luck can you tell me the amp of your controller
Does it affect the throttle response? Will the throttle act stupid?
I did over 500 miles with it and didn't have any problems. No difference as far as I could tell
@@motomachinezuk8786 thank you so much dude, imma try it today on mine
I only add a little bit of solder to the shunt(s) so that my throttle will not get too sensitive. You basically lose the slow/smooth acceleration with a full shunt mod.
I did it. Apparently i got 4 shunt wires and i solered only 2 with 2. The torque increased very nice and the throttle was working properly. The motor gets hot quicker but does not exceed the temperatures before the mod, i do think it has a heat sensor.
And now it feels like 100% baterry when 40% . My speed and torque was decreasing before significantly. The wierd thing is that the baterry lasts almost the same.
Your display are you using sw900 I'm us the one be for that is k something doesn't sound very intelligent I no quite a lot about ektric bikes iv gave you a message earlier about your solder and any or
thats what they call a cold solder joint but even done like that it should still be effective, ideal is to make each shunt rail thicker all the way along its length but that might be hard to achieve, you might also be limited by your batteries maximum output which could be affected by its cells or construction, it could even be the motors limits but that seems less likely. I suspect my white bike is faster than this.
There was no room to solder like I wanted so I did what I could. Could do better if I tried again that's for sure. Your new bike ? Probably a tad faster.
@@motomachinezuk8786 did you notice any increase in the power output number on the display ? even if its a 52v battery if you had the 45amp controller I use you could get up to 2600w
@ash0787 I'm not sure what shows on screen do you mean like the rev counter thing ? It just shoots off the scale now rapidly. Not really looked should I see something then ?
@@motomachinezuk8786 most of them will say current power use in watts, did you not see that yet ? you can compare to calculate roughly how much amp its using, its also possible to put a meter in between battery and controller which can show it and also count amp hours, I did that once but the meter broke.
should have squeezed the shunt together before soldering it up so might wanna give that a try mate.
I wish I knew before I done it but atleast I know for next time. Appreciate the constructive feedback
@@motomachinezuk8786 no worries mate enjoy!
Use flux next time
Wheres the fuse in the battery
2 fuses in battery one for the charge port and other is discharge port. Once in battery they are easily spotted
@@motomachinezuk8786 mine didnt have any inside at all and it didnt brake either just needed to connect the learning wire lol but not all batteries have fuses cuz mine 1000% hasnt got them and nore has my mates 72 volt just 2 wires to a anderson plug
@@catalickconverta6823Alot don't have fuses ,if you ever short out the battery and can't get a red charging light when plugged into charger you simply unplug the BMS wire and wait a few seconds then plug it in ,this resets BMS and all is good 👍
Fingerless gloves..
It's all fun and games until you cook your mosfets from over current 😅 I unknowingly bought a shunted controller second hand for my trike and blew it up in 3 days with very little effort
I've done over 700 miles with it now and it's been fine
@@motomachinezuk8786 maybe I just went too hard 😅
@@user-nk5xi6lj6fthe previous owner probably added too much solder and had a better solder flow onto the shunts. This decreases the resistance too much and allows too much power which blows the MISFETs. This video shows a very cold solder joint, which is unpredictable in how much electricity will flow through it. A hotter soldering iron will melt it better and fuse properly for max flow. Better to have a very hot soldering iron and just wet a little solder along each shunt instead of joining both together.
2:20 very bad work omg , too much solder and the solder is not good
Cheers for the constructive criticism
@@motomachinezuk8786 you may have needed a higher power soldering iron
Shout out to @sheeshmiester