3 simple reasons for me (living in Germany). Too big, too expensive (we already have all this on our own!) and charging-port on the WORST POSITION!!! We can't charge BYD cars in narrow garages. I was waiting for the dolphin, but even this will have no success, they made it LARGER, more powerful and mor expensive for Europe - AND it also has the charging-port on the front right, which I simply can't reach, because I have to park very close to the right wall of the garage in order to be able to open the driver's door on the left! And with a pricing similiar to European brands, why should you go for a new Chinese one? WE ASK FOR SMALL AND CHEAP ELECTRIC CARS IN GERMANY SINCE YEARS, AND STILL HAVE NOTHING LIKE THAT!!!
Ja kann gut sein...ich denke auch, dass einfach niemand Interesse an Byd für 73.000 euro hat, wenn man für 90k schon eine EQE 500 wohl kaufen kann.(auch bessere Reichweite für die Mercedes). China hat Chancen in Europa vor allem durch Volvo und MG. Die anderen sollten eher aufgeben...genauso passiert hier, was mit VW in China passiert. Bürger kaufen Ware aus dem Heimat...
@@dnc3861 Volvo war eine kleine Hoffnung für mich, der EX30, der gestern vorgestellt wurde. Von außen ganz nice, mit 4,23m einigermaßen klein, in der Basis-Version mit LFP-Akku, ab 36.590€ - noch nicht wirklich günstig, aber liegt immerhin knapp unter ner ollen Renault Zoe. Aber was mir so gar nicht gefällt: Innen macht der einen auf Tesla, alles läuft nur noch über einen großen Touchscreen in der Mitte. Nichtmal mehr die Geschwindigkeit kann man zentral im Blickfeld hinterm Lenkrad oder als Head-up Display an der Scheibe sehen, nein die wird nur noch auf dem "Tablet" in der Mitte des Fahrzeugs angezeigt! Auch Außenspiegel, Heizung, Lüftung, Radio, Lautstärke etc. - alles nur über den Touchscreen in der Mitte einstellbar. Das werde ich mir wohl nicht antun... Von bidirektionalem Laden auch weiterhin keine Spur.
I agree on the charge port position. Wouldn't work for our house. Has to be rear left or at the front. Right side won't work at all as we park close to a wall and need to get out.
@@_-Lea_- ja gut, die 340 km Version macht schon Sinn. Aber anstatt der 460km Version würde ich eher einen Cupra Born nehmen. Born hat bessere Qualität in dem Innenraum, gleiche Reichweite schon mit 58Kwh Batterie, und um 25 cm größer, und kostet nur 39k, anstatt 41k (fast 2.000 Euro weniger.) Ja, PS ist mir egal, über 200. Beide zieht schon genug. Aber die Basisausführung ist richtig TOP, im Sinne von Preis/Leistung, für 36k.
Correct! They need to setup factories in Europe to avoid the tariffs, but in doing so the labor rates are much higher than they are in China so the cars will be pricier than the exact models sold in China. They can sell them at a lower price/profit and try to make it up in volume, but it takes time to ramp up a new car factory.
The tariff is only the VAT, nothing more, it's around 20% in European countries. That VAT goes on top of any car made in Europe too. And the prices for customers in Europe include the VAT. It's not 100% or something that you @ksaabli... imply. And you have so much hate in your comment... Why? The politicians might spread hate and make it complicated, but ordinary people like you and me just want to live our lives. Ordinary people are friendly, I see it in the comments in any language, just friendlyness, just living a normal live. That's really great.
This is one Chinese made car brand that sells reasonably well in the UK. That’s purely down to their relatively low price point, where economics trump ethics for that customer demographic. Not many people believe it is a British brand any longer, because most people have more between their ears than Sam gives them credit for.
Honestly you’d be shocked at how many think that MG is British, Volvo and polestar are Swedish and that VAG/merc and bmw don’t use Chinese parts heavily, I call it badge blindness.
@@WEZ4136 We all know MG is Chinese Volvo is Swedish designed and built just Chinese owned and Polestar although chinese owned and built is still designed in Sweden. Almost everything these days has some Chinese components i mean look at the iphone ect. Good example is a Rolls still a Rolls or is it a BMW and is a Bently still a Bently or is it a VW. Try telling a Lamborghini owner its really an Audi ect ect
I was chatting to the MG salesman in Ireland when I was picking up my MG4 that he had 200(!) orders on backlog and he even scrolled through a spreadsheet list of them, that other dealers were fighting over a shipment of 400 MGs arriving that still wasn't enough to satisfy demand. Then he told me that he knew somebody who selling Ora Cats who had sold a grand total of 3 with hundreds of them sitting in inventory. Literally every colour and spec could be ordered and delivered the next day but yet they had sold 3 total ever. Clearly it's still not enough for a Chinese manufacturer to dump cars onto the market - they have to be good cars and affordable to overcome the risk people associate with a new brand. It also takes time to build a reputation and MG have been around long enough to built it whereas other names haven't. I think BYD has the clout to overcome this problem in time but I wonder about some of the others. I should also point out that an MG4 costs €29,000-36000 whereas an Atto 3 starts from €39,000. That's nearly Tesla territory if they want to make splash they need to sell something cheaper.
Tesla Model 3 costs about 30% more in Ireland than China. Apply the same markup to an Atto 3 and it would be €24k and sell in serious volume but no, BYD are looking for €39k. I was interested in the Seal, but now I would not be surprised it they try to price it above a Model 3.
I’ve been selling MGs for nearly a decade. I swear what a horrible quality car 🤢🤮 but people love cheap cars. Byd looks amazing quality but expensive. MG is controlled by Shanghai anyway so what’s the difference?
Having lived in Denmark, Italy, mainland China, Taiwan and Spain. Each for a year or more. I have learned a few things. One, generally speaking, citizens of each of these countries bias their purchasing decisions heavily on both the politics, and social responsibility, of the producing country. We don't seem to care much here in the US. We just want it cheap. Though there is a fringe element that use grievance issues, or some anti globalist excuse to basically hate on whoever or whatever is the flavor of the day.
Because the US actually imposed import quotas on jp cars & demanded appreciation of the yen and the jp obeyed... remember the toshiba smashing? Chrysler had to be bailed out in 1979. Essentially the free capital account of the US drives goods trade deficit. There's no way to stop that.
The funny thing is that most Teslas sold in the U.K. are made in China. However, people have been seeing Teslas on the road for the last ten years and expect then to be around for at least another ten years. We have seen many car brands come and go like Proton, Daewoo, and even the U.K.s Rover. The main reason I won't buy a Mitsubishi now is that they are pulling out of the U.K. so good luck getting an support in five years time.
@@I_Love_Figs That's nonsense the US didn't do any such thing there was no tariffs or quotas to us even as the auto industry Detroit a little bit the Democrats to do that They didn't. The US domestic auto industry had to face the onslaught of Japanese imports which were superior in quality and reliability and in the pain they retooled and learned the hard way now here's the thing the Europeans didn't because they enjoyed the very thing that you suggest that import quotas and duties. What the Americans did was to persuade the Japanese to start to manufacture by assembling in the US. The Japanese did that and so did the Germans with Volkswagen. This was a 'Gentleman's Agreement'. This wasn't about quotas or tariffs. Please check to see what tariffs there were and what actual quotas they were and please let us know cuz that'll be interesting as a turn of event in history at least which nobody else is able to find.
@@Rapture77 You've never heard of the Plaza Accord or the Chicken Tax? You don't remember of all these tv segments from the 80's where they were smashing Japanese cars?
@@johnsullivan8673 The Chicken Tax was from another area during the Lyndon Johnson era and it covered a very specific segment. We're talking about the '80s '90s and the current century when Japanese brands were/are admired and motoring reviews in the media were positive. Isolated episodes do not define the overall attitude towards the Japanese brands in the US which are far more positive than Europe and Asia. So much so jealous markets even suggest that the Japanese bribe the US motoring journalist which is utter nonsense. JD Power and Associates and Consumer Reports are American publications and market research organizations and they have consistently placed the Japanese brands right on top for over 30 years. Isolated news coverage of Japanese bashing is not an example of the overall attitude and the arc of respect and admiration for Japanese quality in the automotive space. I lived in the UK, Asia and currently in the US, and I must say that I don't see the similar attitude towards Japanese auto brands in Europe nor in Asia. The Plaza Accord is not relevant because the Accord was about currency changes and left the Japanese at a disadvantage for sure. Nonetheless the Japanese auto industry did exceedingly well and was favorably praised by the American market much more so than the Europeans. The Europeans declared that the Japanese could never enter the luxury auto market. They were so wrong and the Euro luxury market was completely almost destroyed. Lexus was hailed as perfect by the US motoring journalist while the Europeans were skeptical and arrogant. Let's get one thing straight the US remains the most open and free market in the world for autos and prices are automobles in the US are cheaper than even Europe or Asia.
BYD is priced too expensively overseas. That's pretty clear. But they're a smart company and obviously know this too, so it's also obviously purposeful. The question is, Why? I suspect it's a combination of being supply constrained due too triple digit growth at home, and wanting to avoid being stereotyped as a down-market/cheap brand. As more supply comes online and they mature their overseas operations and marketing, I'm optimistic pricing will self-correct.
Fact is that western resellers are the problem. It's not just BYD or Chinese cars - buy a product directly from China and it is very cheap. Buy exactly the same products (because you are racist and only buy from "trustworthy" western resellers) from western resellers and they will charge up to 10 times and more. Pricing will self-correct when BYD sells its cars directly and not over greedy and dubious western resellers.
Gregg, I absolutely agree...pricing now is not an issue from distributor markups, it is more about strategy from main HQ... I am sure they know it, maybe a smart move...I would really like to have someone do analysis on this, it would be very very interesting business case, all of us could learn something about it. We are all biased trough our education with agressive, stuffing the channel ideas...hmmm, maybe we all shoud re-think Jack Welch ideas ?
Also they see Europe as their high margin market in their global strategy given the hoops they need to jump through to sell their cars there as well as possible sanctions they may face if they became too successful. If they want to sell with low margin, then Chinese domestic market as well as global south are better options. You can see it in the car models as well, with cheaper cars not being offered in Europe. Though BYD seems to be introducing their dolphin in Europe, so we'll wait and see.
Agreed, but it’s the same for Chinese people buying imported European cars, for example in Ireland bmw i7(xdrive 60)are from 140 000 euro, it’s about 980 000 rmb, they selling 1 458 000 rmb in china. I think it’s all down to politics.
Well said!! Because European prices are stupidly high, particularly for EV's, the Chinese brands are undercutting but benefitting so they can also overprice. Thankfully the consumer is beginning to wise up!
@@MoDa87 You are asking for 2000 prices in 2023. If you want to pay below 10K you can get them at 8 to 10 years old. Thinking about it I have not paid less than £30K for a car since the early 90s and I do not waste money on expensive cars.
I expect BYD to start its own sales network, like Tesla. The middleman are short sighted and profit driven. There's little incentive for them to consider the branding and long term market strategy.
wont work, the europe isnt the US it wont let china product dumb on it because it itself product dumps. Europe not gonna allow china to take market its own companies can take
BYD got into longer term deals with major importers with existing infrastructure, best I can tell at least. As an example in the Netherlands, they deal with Louwman, who's a huge player in the market for like six brands, present in most major cities. Source: I'll have my Atto 3 next week. For me it was a major consideration that A Louwman's backing them and B BYD is already huge in China, because I know Louwman isn't going to just disappear and they aren't known for being grifters like Tesla are. So if I were to park it up a tree or something, I'm not going to be left without parts or garages who know how to do the work. Before deciding I also made a few phonecalls with Chinese branches of BYD, asking them if A a private export could be arranged (yes, but not worth the money, so apparently it's a real dumping-price right now to open up the European market) and B if I could order parts from China, and the answer was yes. So even if Louwman were to mysteriously explode as a company, I'd be able to get parts at a speed that outpaces Tesla significantly. I should however add that I speak Mandarin and a bit of Cantonese, so if you can only communicate in English, your experience may be different. They (Guangzhou branch) can do English, but some technical and tax terms I could easier cover in Mandarin.
They face the same challenge that Korean cars did when first introduced to new market. Hyundai & Kia eventually got over that by including a 10-years/100,000 miles warranty to every vehicle sold.
Let me bait a few Atto owners. Coming from a gas car and test driving a BYD it seems pretty decent. But then you go drive a Tesla and you realise the Atto lacks many refinements. A lot of money is spent on gimmicks like coloured cabin lights and kitschy guitar strings instead of things that matter, like performance, efficiency, range, ADAS, charging speed, etc. In an educated market like Europe BYD will be penalised for this. Now I know someone from China will fire back at me saying “You can’t compare with Tesla because it’s a different segment!”. Well sorry, BYD have chosen to put the Atto in the same segment by pricing it within $10K of the Tesla. So rightly or wrongly buyers will compare the two cars. And the Atto 3 will be found wanting.
The only fault for BYD is pricing lmao. You look at China pricing, indeed atto 3 or Yuan plus is only 20k usd while tesla is 32k. their overseas pricing is indeed very high. I would really want to know WHY are they doing this...
Let's see in 5 years. You pretending that BYD and other Chinese BEV makers are running out if time is kinda cute...but it's the usual western behavior. Also: you confuse the Seal (Model 3) and the Dolphin (Model Y) with the Atto 3. And if there ever appears a Model 2 - its counterpart is the Seagull. Han is the counterpart to the model S. I am not even sure that BYD takes the Atto3 serious. To meet it seems like a car that BYD issued so people can criticize what to make better with the next generations of BYD cars. This is necessary because Asians have quite different preferences when it comes to a car...thus it makes sense to release a dummy like the Atto 3 to learn what Westerners prefer.
@Hyper_SSR So you’re saying BYD is going to take the Samsung phone approach and Tesla is the Apple approach. BYD is going to see what people ask for and give them a hole bunch of options to choose from over time. Tesla is building the car people want without them knowing that’s what they wanted. Both strategies can work.
@@Hyper_SSR Me confused? How can you compare the Dolphin with Model Y when it's half the size ? BTW, the Dolphin has just launched in NZ (and soon Australia) with a price tag similar to the Atto 3 - $55K. Can't see that running out the door. When the Model 2 arrives it will be around $35K. I expect the Seagull will be $40K+ if the BYD overpricing trend continues. Good luck BYD!
Having driven both the Atto 3 and Tesla Model 3, the Atto 3 is more tuned for comfort and soaks up bumps better. This might not excite the enthusiast press, but many people prefer it. And some people prefer having buttons and voice control for key functions. The car is also better put together with no rattles, no loose or misaligned panels, etc. Not the same level of performance and software was not be fully updated for Europe... but the actual vehicle is more refined for what it is.
A major factor is the logistics and duty costs. Tesla Model Y ex Berlin has a big logistic cost advantage vs any car coming from China. Also building a car in Berlin means tarrif free transfer within EU and EFTA, vs a 10% duty on Chinese imports. Also for Chinese products coming into the EU, these are liable for full VAT payment at Port of entry, whereas intra EU B2B sales are essentially VAT free. A lot of costs and cash flow tie ups when sending cars to EU from China versus easy EU trade.
Then why is the byd atto 3, starting at 39k in Ireland, and the cheapest vw electric is id3 at 42k, with the id4 starting at 47k Thats from a byd main dealer in Ireland, not importing it yourself.
@@Mr.T-SI they are not, they are quite expensive in Europe, however they had brand recognition before entering the market. People see them on TV, see famous people driving them etc so they can explain away this premium but it's something they are trying to change with EU plants.
@@Mr.T-SI Tesla was and still is expensive in Europe. The Berlin just recently started making significant numbers but only on the Model Y. That's one of the reasons why Model Y overtook Model 3 in sales. The other reason is obviously the fact that we like SUVs. But In the case of Tesla it was really something new and innovative. They don't have the best quality but they have really good features which helped them greately improve their brand recognition. The Chinese don't offer anything more in fact they offer less and in the same time they put similar or higher prices than Tesla. Ofc we also have to add that we in Europe despite being late to the party started making some really good EVs. Our advantage is that we really know how to make cars and more importantly how to make good world-leading cars. Our EVs are really catching up to competitors like Tesla and on the very very top 0.1% of EVs we are the best. No competition for cars like 7-series from BMW or EQS. Ofc these are not mass cars but still this shows how far we can push the barrier. We need to become as good in the Model 3/Y area and we will be once again the best. Only time will tell but as of now Tesla leads and we love them.
I suspect many people will think that they are another Proton or Daewoo who disappeared in the U.K. as quickly as they appeared leaving owners with no support. Funny that he mentions Great Wall. I only discovered recently that they already tried to sell an ICE pickup here about a decade ago. Good luck getting any parts from that compared to say a Ford Ranger. And yes you will need parts if only things like a wing mirror to replace one that got broken. I think most people realise MG is a Chinese brand but seeing that they have had dealerships here for well over a decade gives them confidence they will be around in another ten years. Polestar is known to be part of of Volvo. Pretty obvious from the number of their cars I see sat at the local Volvo dealer that has also been there for decades. I wonder how many people actually go with a dealership rather than a brand. I was surprised at how many Mustang Mach Es there are locally. Then I realised that the local Ford dealership is proudly celebrating 70 years of being there. Which would you choose? A Ford from a well established dealership or a Yingtong spekial with no dealerships. In conclusion brands like Dongfeng will sell far better if they put a familiar badge like Dacia on the front. Oh they have already had that idea with the Dacia Spring EV/
I think price is a huge factor, BYD and GWM BEVs are expensive, much more expensive than MG. Polestars are also expensive but they have positioned themselves as a luxury brand, which is a small segment of the market. If BYD and GWM want to set selling cars in the UK they need to lower their prices and invest in advertising. If it’s tariffs that make them expensive then they need to invest in factories in Europe and the UK.
The main problem is the price. They're selling the Atto 3 here in the Netherlands, which starts at 43.000 euro. For the same price people prefer to buy a known brand like Tesla, Volkswagen, Audi, Ford etc. If they want to succeed they got to follow Toyota's strategy from the 80's. Sell well build cheap small cars. Small cars (b class segment) sell well here. Or they have to go a segment lower, cause MG sells pretty well here and their cars start at 32.000 euro.
BYD has still has significant automotive gross profit in China at 20.7% 1Q, while roughly doubling sales and production YoY every month. Sales growing 2.5 times as fast as Tesla overall. Selling every car they can make. Several models still have significant wait times. There is little incentive at the moment to try to compete on price in Europe. They have room to drop the price, and likely will when they can catch up. Meanwhile, Geely Group is actually doing very well. Once you add all the brands together (Volvo, Polestar, Lotus, Lynk & Co, Smart, etc.) they actually beat Tesla in some European markets. But people do not associate many of those brands with China. The new EX30, starting at $35k, is likely to sell very well. It also will put a lot of pressure on other companies to drop prices.
Uhm, BYD sells for 41.5K in the Netherlands right now. If I did a private import from China, I'd end up paying roughly 40K-40.5K. That wasn't worth it for me so I used their official importer instead. Delivery time was 2 weeks. Maybe there's a wait list in China, but they seem to have committed to storming the European market. Kia E-Niro is sort of the competitor, but has a 2 year delivery wait list. Yeah, big ol' bag of 'nope' from me on that proposition. Plus Kia batteries catch fire. The EX30? Remember though that Volvo makes super-heavy cars. I have ridden armoured vehicles that as their empty weight are coming into the same weight category as overly fat Volvo SUVs. Actually, the Wiesel tankette including armour and an autocannon, weighs less than Volvo's Ex90. 😆 The EX series is about to spill into the 3000+ kg weight bracket fully loaded, and that's just sloppy manefacturing. Plus you will actually need to get a lorry license to drive it as 3K is the weight limit. Around here that Volvo EV weight means that starting in 2026, you're going to be hit with a road tax anywhere between "It's not good" and "Hahaha, who even has that much money?" for your shitty 3 ton Volvo. Maybe others care less, but for me, not getting arrested for driving without a license because it's technically a truck, and having atrocious power use due to weight, are kinda important. By contrast on taxes, if my calculations are correct, the Atto3 is going to land in the same road tax bracket as my current (rather shitty) Fiesta, maybe one bracket above. I bought the Fiesta at the time because it's the 2nd cheapest tax bracket, go figure. Lots of business drivers around here go Lynk&Co because it allows them to have the big fat SUV their inferiority complex desires, but it's technically a hybrid and therefore still cheap on the taxes compared to the same big fat SUV as a diesel. I've a pretty strong opinion on their value-for-money ratio but there's no denying that have a succesful strategy. 👍 Lotus isn't a thing around here, it simply doesn't exist. Polestar's not that visible in the market. You do sometimes see them, but they're fairly expensive compared to what you buy. Good effort, probably not about to conquer the market? I wouldn't want to be a Tesla dealer right now really. Sure they have their fanboys and an existing market share based on being first, but the word is out on their shitty value-for-money, the parts upsell scam, atrocious repair times, weird brake failures during crashes, software faults. Heck the EU outright banned the use of the broken 'Autopilot'. Not that the average Tesla fanboy taking a nap while permanently stuck in the middle lane at low speed cares about what's legal, but that's probably not the sort of situation that future market dominance is made of.
Are they part of the great EV ponzi scam in China with thousands of vehicles sitting dumped in fields to inflate their sales numbers and get massive subsidies from the CCP?
Well obviously because they are not Chinese brands. Volvo, Polestar, Lotus they are European brands held by Chinese companies. Yet they are very far from Tesla
Also BYD is no longer doubling sales every month. They used to but they no longer do. Partly because of Tesla's price war which they are currently winning. Many Chinese brands like NIO and Xpeng are losing marketshare in China which is extremely bad as these are their only real markets. BYD is no longer growing like they did the last 2 years as well.
@@DanRyzESPUK Maybe you would have but most of the europeans would NOT have bought a car from nazi Germany. You are a minority with your TOTAL lack of buying ethics. Most people have some kind of ethics, even if it activates only in pretty severe cases (like Nazi Germany). For example, China's genocide of the Uygur has still not been enough for most people but it will, as China is becoming more and more aggressive in the South-China Sea, supports Russia in the Ukrain war ...etc
The BYD Atto 3 starts in Austria at 42,990 € The Tesla Y RWD 45.870 €. About the same battery kWh, cw=0.29 at the Atto far higher, so about same range. But the Y has far more interior space and a a trailer hitch for 1600 kg.
Totally agree, it's all about price, for the around the same price and specs Tesla is way more trustworthy than any Chinese brand, if they price it more competitively it would sell more
I am European and consider myself a small petrolhead (at least in the past when there were less restrictions). If I would consider to buy today an EV, the choice would be certainly not BYD (or any Chinese brand) despite their good technology. They lack ownership pride completely, not great styling, driving comfort (suspension mainly). It would be a Tesla, VW, Audi or the like. On top of that they cost similar prices than what you pay for the preferred examples. If the price would be >30% cheaper, I could consider for a A-to-B type vehicle, but otherwise, thank you
spot on. If they want to be percieved as a "premium", they should do at least one feature which is way better than does any of the competitors, even better than Tesla. For such price , it could have been a design, but the played safe game.
Part of the problem is that they are latecomers and also not a recognised brand (if they are known it is for commercial vehicles). Being late, it is losing sales to the MG4 (tens of thousands per quarter) vs Atto3 (tens). Also, as you mention, the price seems high.
We should remember in Australia the Japanese had to overcome WWII sentiments and build quality. Is there a similar sentiment based on relations between China and Russia. Are the Chinese underwriting the cost of the Russia Ukrainian conflict having signed an Energy Supply Agreement? We should never underestimate the power of persuasion and distribution social media has given what used to be the silent majority.
Just making stuff up now. Chinese underwriting the war??? Isn’t Europe themselves buying Russian oil indirectly anyways or India and the US reselling Russian oil to Europe. Yes US are currently buying Russians oil to this date.
Japan tried to invade Australia, all China ever did was buy from and thus create jobs for Australia. China can not overcome anti-China propaganda in Australia because there's nothing to correct from except them being Chinese.
Exactly, the high price is the main issue here, just had a look at their website and the price for the Atto 3 range from around £36,000 to almost £40,000!
The problem is that to date Chinese branded i.c.e cars have been pretty terrible with regards to quality/longevity and resale value. They will have to prove otherwise before the west accepts them.
Absolutely true. It happened with the Japanese, then the Koreans, and now the Chinese. It takes about 2 decades before they learn to have the same quality as western brands regardless of what some say. Those same very few will buy them while the majority will keep away until then.
Totally agree Mr Viking. I live in Okinawa/Japan. Something strange is happening, I have been watching the price of used Nissan leaf 2018 model for about 1 year. Just recently the price dropped quite considerably. So today I went to see a used Nissan leaf 2018 for ¥1.500.000 very nice in new condition. Then I went to Naha capital of Okinawa to the BYD show room to have a look at the BYD atto 3 I love this car but at a starting price of ¥4.4 million yen it's just a bit too much. Sorry this is sounding very long but my point is you can buy a very good used Nissan leaf 2018 for a much lower price.
Also Chinese brands in europe have huge problems getting cars repaired. If you are in a fairly small accident it is a high probability that the car will be written of. This drives insurance costs through the roof.
What I hear about low sales from BYD in Europe, is all about pricing, like you said. How can they expect sales in Europe if they are not 30% cheaper than Tesla or even Renault, VW, and on and on.
Since Tesla lowered the prices here in Sweden there is really not much competition, in my opinion. Especially since the Model Y standard is priced the way it is. There is almost no difference to Model 3 after you add the 14000 SEK towing hook which comes as standard on Y. I basically stopped looking at car reviews. The alternatives right now are either a used Model 3 or a new Model Y.
Agree, Tesla is such a great deal right now. And you get the safest car on the road along wi the best mileage and autoupdates. Hassle free driving, but maybe a bit boring
@@Tottorul You can get a lot of goodies in other brands such as head up display, ventilated seats, actual matrix headlights, soundproofing and lots more. Tesla is behind others on features. But can you get any more competent EV for the money? I doubt it.
Three things BYD needs to do in my opinion in the European market. 1) Reduce the price of the Atto 3 2) Remove the full brand name from the rear trunk/boot door. Just put BYD letters on the rear. European, especially UK buyers won't want to be seen driving a car with "Build Your Dreams" on the back of the car! 3) Offer a long warranty period e.g 7 years with maybe 3 years servicing thrown in. To get a foothold in Europe and to establish the brand, they need to sell at cost with sweeteners.
Spot on. I live in Sweden and sedans are not an option here, no one buys them. Tesla Y is around 570 000 sek and BYD ato 3 is 545 000 sek. For me to by an unknown Chinese brand it would have to be around 200 000 cheaper. And maybe even that would not be enough.
Hi Sam Love the channel, always informative, always a good watch. The reason BYD are failing in Europe is quite simple. In Europe (and particularly the UK) we are very Brand conscious, people have embraced Tesla with such speed because they produce great cars ( I drive a LR Model Y) and they are put in the same bracket as BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. I’m not in the least bit surprised BYD will fail in Europe, Chinese products are widely considered to be cheap crap in Europe. Unless a BYD EV is not at least 40-50% cheaper than a Tesla nobody, and I do mean nobody would be caught dead in one of those things.
Exactly. Atto 3: 440km, size of an id3, 43.000 euro Cupra born: 450km, 39.000 euro Vw id4: 530 km, 45.000 euro Tesla model Y long range: 520km, 400hp, 52.000 euro. Who Tf chooses Byd????
Spot on in your analysis. The GWM ORA Cat lots of interest at £25K but they released a low range, quite stylist but poor utility vehicle at £30K plus. Interest tanked. The boot is actually useless for most jobs. They were just poor value for money.
Byd are too expensive in UK probably from import taxes also only a couple of dealerships are selling them ,so hard to get to even see one. In Nottingham we have two MG dealerships . Also MG4 has had a few issues with after service getting hold of parts with being a new model car. And infotainment on Chinese cars are not up to what we expect ,that also goes for VW so not just a china problem
One of the issues with selling Chinese EVs in the UK is the reported finding Chinese government tracking devices on board. Apparently without the knowledge of the Chinese companies. I think very few UK people believe that MG is British. We’re not that stupid despite leaving the EU.
"A Chinese tracking device was discovered inside a UK government car after officials carried out security sweep. The tracker was found sealed inside a part that had been imported from China, prompting concerns of widespread espionage. At least one SIM card capable of transmitting location data was found during the sweep of the cars, which are used to carry diplomats and senior government officials. Former Conservative leader and foreign secretary Iain Duncan Smith, a prominent backbencher who has been very vocal on China-related issues, said the incident shows Beijing should be considered a threat. He told the i: ‘I don’t know how much more the UK needs to know about the threat China poses to us all. Surely it is time to change the integrated review and refer to China as a systemic threat.’ Intelligence officials believe Beijing is taking a broad-sweeping approach to eavesdropping in the West, rather than bugging specific ministers’ cars, but still a big vulnerability has been exposed."
You are 100% wrong about the Atto3 Sam. I have been driving the Atto3 for 5months on the Uber platform. The vehicle or spaceship which is what my passengers call it gets great feedback about comfort,ride quality,tech and materials used. In my opinion there’s not a better vehicle for ride share businesses.
Yes Sam, at least in my case you've nailed it. I was so looking forward to BYD coming to Germany. That's where I live by the way. But when I learned their pricing here, I've abandoned my plans on buying an EV for the time being. There's another influence on the issue though. Since our government decided to go head-to-head with our main energy supplier our economy is on the way down. Mainstream media doesn't talk about it, but it's getting worse bit by bit. Inflation rate is high. A lot of us ordinary people do have other problems than deciding which car to buy. And since the light at the end of the tunnel is actually the headlights of the oncoming train, everything is more likely to get worse than better in times to come.
Stop supporting Ukraine, seriously. I'm in Ireland when we gave the top part of our country to the UK because they demanded it, you didn't send us billions of euro in wepaons. You stood up and applauded us for being brave enough to chose peace, and today you pay respect to us by helping us to make that peace deal work during brexit. What is ukraine to you? you had no economic or military deals, but youre going to put yourself in debt, and cause housing crisis across the EU. I get it Russia bad, but we thought UK was bad. So what if Ukraine lost 3 areas of its land? Spain lost gibralta etc. End the war, secure your energy, step onto greener/more controllable energy at an easier pace, and get back on track. Just to give you abit of insight, Ireland took ukranian refugees because Germany asked, if they all were put in the same spot, they would be the 3rd biggest city in ireland, they take 1.5 billion a year in rent alone. Ireland has ended up 450,000 homes behind (germany has over 1.8 million empty homes, Ireland will need to build 450,000 just to get catch up with the growing population). All while Ireland pays off german debt that was held in Irish banks during the last crash. Through all that Ireland is still a net contributor to the EU budget, and paid for other countries in the EU for their covid, like paid for poland. DOnt get me wrong, Ireland loves being in the EU and benefits a lot, a lot of English speaking american companies set up in Ireland. but... sprinting at full speed during a time when you are making the most money you have in a long long time, and still seeing the finish line move further and futher away is heart breaking.... You wont get paid for the leopards because Russia is going to win, the part of Ukraine left belongs to Blackrock (american investment company) and no german companies will make money there. Wallstreet will get rich rebuilding ukraine, but germany wont see a cent.
@@mossmusap338 Germans are very obedient to authorities by nature. They tend to follow their leaders right into the abyss. I wonder about that my whole life. Well, there's a growing part that seems to come to their senses. Time will tell if that's gonna change anything. But for the time being, you're right. Unfortunately.
As the market matures it becomes more important to understand the pedigree of the brand - where it came from, who builds it, who buys it, what do you neighbors think about it, etc. Tesla has a long history of building EVs and has a fantastic operational background - from how they are built in the factory, to the internal electronic systems (infotainment, etc.). It is really a great car. Plus, it is built in Europe - Germany, which to most people in the world - the Germans make the best cars, period!
there's ZERO advertising and promotion of BYD in EU, so people don't even know about them to large extent. This is definitely one of the major reasons.
@@johnsmith-cw3wothat’s not a problem in Europe. The real issue is a worry about reliability. Especially Germans are very worried about safety. I personally will never be an early adopter for something as expensive as an EV. Prices need to be half of a European EV for me to even consider a none European or Toyota. China is none for cheating and scamming when it comes to what they make. So I am not putting my life in their hands.
@@MoDa87 As a Tesla owner who did test German EVs, I can tell you Tesla is miles ahead. Quality is better than in the past, warranty is there, servicing and reliability are there as well, comfort and performance, pricing dropped and the charging infrastructure is extensive. I would buy Tesla again before any EU EV mate.
It is the price gouging practice in Malaysia that has stopped me from buying the BYD Atto3. Price must not be more expensive than our neighbour Thailand.
I think that you have summed it up pretty well. It is a combination of pricing, the image of made in China and that most of Chinese brands are unknown.
It takes time to build a brand especially in Europe many companies have done it by starting with good value models & gaining a reputation for reliability, value & availability of spares before adding more expensive cars to their range. Remember a car is a significant purchase to an individual. Most people prefer not to take a chance with such a rare purchase. Also geo-political tensions between the US & China mean worries about maintenance if relations become worse.
This is the type of advert necessary when a well established brand, known for its rallying successes decides to move upmarket ruclips.net/video/BttVG7p1MfE/видео.html
It's all about price. MG (which we all know in the UK is Chinese) has exactly the right price for that type of car. BYD is £10,000 over the amount I would spend for a car of that size and range.
The UK market is used to buying from franchised dealers, so you can get you car serviced from the dealer you bought it from. If I buy a BYD in the UK, how far do I need to drive to get any problems resolved or just an annual service?
Most EVs sold in Norway in 2023 have been Tesla Model Y. Convenient and good price in the first quarter. Not that cheap now. One also has to consider that Europe is in a really bad spot geopolitically, the future doesn’t look too good. That is also making it more difficult to be new in a market. I was looking at buying an Atto3. Tried to be ok with the interior, but no. Glad I didn’t buy it, turns out in a large new test here in Norway that it has 100 km less range than my Kona. The BYDs had around 15% less range than their WLTP. Xpeng had best results with around 10% longer ranger than WLTP. I will buy an Xpeng, which I think many will. Good value.
I live in Germany. According to the BYD website, there are less than 20 dealers in Germany. My next BYD dealer is 200 km from where I live. The next VW dealer is 500 m from my door. Any question? EVs also need maintenance and repairs. A good dealer network is the base.
In the UK: 1. No advertising whatsoever 2. Unknown outside of the EV enthusiast community 3. Expensive 4. Boring on the outside, ugly on the inside 5. Only 4 dealerships in the entire country
First rate prices for third rate product with an unknown brand, almost no dealerships from a country threatening war. Not really a good strategy as you say.
Sam, I think you are mistaken, most people in the UK don't think that MG is still a British brand. The MG4 is selling well because it had almost universally good reviews and, most importantly, is very keenly priced compared with its direct competitors. One of the main stumbling blocks for EV sales in the UK is their high price and the MG4 looks a good option if you are on a tight budget.
Absolutely this. The MG4 would be a car I'd be seriously looking at buying if I needed to buy now. The ATTO 3 / Dolphin are way overpriced for what they are.
Spot on! Pricing is an issue with Byd. The brand perception is low so can't command premium price. On negative reviews, that wouldn't matter if you have a compelling product eg Tesla.
Your right about BYD being too expensive. However there's also the issue regen braking on the ATTO3 and also I understand on the Dolphin. It's just far too weak and not set up how Europeans like to drive with one pedal driving. I test drove an ATTO 3 at Fully Charge Live South UK in April and my view on the regen braking was it was pants. Also test drove an ORA CAT and that had very buggy software and was way too expensive for what you get. So if they want to succeed over here they need the cars refining and they need to be seen as a budget brand. MG have got the strategy just right in my view.
Hopefully they'll do more to get the pricing right..they have to offer more value for a good bit less. Then I suspect that you'll see lots of advertising ramping up e.g Sponsoring Premiership Football teams etc. In ireland for example they're not really available as yet. Also, we watch UK TV here and there are no ads and therefore zero awareness of what a BYD is. It'll happen but they've alot more to do
@@drxym seems early doors for them when you compare to MG who have ads, dealerships and you're starting to see a good few of them. It's funny tho that there doesn't seem to be as yet a concerted effort to push BYD. I just want it to start cos it'll spur everything else on
Wasting money on Sponsoring Premiership Football teams would turn a lot of people off. Victories in motorsport would be far more convincing, Back when Skoda was a joke brand nobody could deny that their cars kept winning prizes in rallying.
Maybe they saw your BYD video of a person who had a accident in his brand new BYD that was considered totaled by his insurance so he thought he would tear it down to use as spare parts and found all these rust spots at joint areas of the car. I'm surprised that didn't cause a big cause of concern for BYD cars but maybe this is how it's showing up. BYD was my next choice of a good EV option, now i don't trust anyone to put out a better product or comparable to Tesla.
Wouldn't look twice at a BYD. Priced as if an established brand, over double their Chinese price. We are not fools, lads. For a few dollars more, you get a be, Tesla, etc.
@@nankochen5977 Links to factual statistics on that? Pretty sure Bjorn Nyland would mention the fact, if it was a fact, since he is one of the best testers of EVs around here. Extremely thorough in every detail. Several of the EV car manufacturers let him test cars since he finds the problems quickly. Haven't heard anything regarding deaths in northern Europe involving EVs (there has been the odd "a car on fire" but so far most of them ICE cars, with the odd HEV) especially not with braking problems, and there are a lot of Teslas rolling in Norway so "lots of people died" would make headlines quickly. (not to mention the fact that software upgrades improve the Teslas (not sure how other EV automakers handle software updates - I know for Volvo we need to go to the nearest repair shop), so an initial problem in one model might not be there a month later - I know ghost breaking happened sometimes a few years ago, very rarely now).
@@nankochen5977 I'm am confused about you claim of a Tesla breaking problem leading to many deaths. Death is usually reported in newspapers, so have you any sources? As for quality, i lár well inspected a car shipped from the Shanghai factory and could find no faults in the bodywork or interior.
@@connclissmann6514 Do you know Chinese govts has forced Tesla re-calling 1.8 millions of cars for the braking problem ? It caused lots of death in China, lots of vedios on the SNS showing the problem. I have seen the data showing the massive traffic accidents in the North America caused by Tesla is times of other auto-makers combined.
Sam, you are wrong. The reason why BYD is priced high is because of transportation capacity and production capacity.The current BYD shipping capacity is only for 10,000-15,000 cars per month, and the supply is nearby, so you can see that the closer to China, the lower the price, such as Thailand, Malaysia, and Australia. However, BYD has placed an order for 7 LNG carriers, and will deliver 3 ships in July-August, which will provide a monthly transportation capacity of 30,000 to 40,000. At this stage, BYD does not expect to sell many cars in Europe, because the transportation capacity can only meet the needs of a few nearby countries. I think it is reasonable to set a high price at present, to build a brand image and offset the high transportation costs and tariffs in Europe. Once the transportation capacity and production capacity increase, BYD will seek a new pricing strategy in Europe, and then the competition will begin.
You can see that most of BYD's export orders in the past six months have remained between 10,000 and 15,000, and orders from some countries have even been scheduled until February and March next year, which is entirely caused by transportation capacity.
Dear Sam, here in Europe we are more and more getting away from buying Chinese due to human rights and politics issues, that we saw before COVID (Uyghurs) and during COVID (extreme and really hurting) lockdowns. It made us reconsider everything Chinese. Not convicting Vladimir did the rest, at least in Holland.
As someone that has sold cars in the UK I can tell you that the small/mid-size crossover market is insanely competitive. Atto 3 is a perfectly decent car. I test drove one at Fully Charged North. But it’s priced at parity with competitors, and a new marque needs a hook. BYD hasn’t got one compared to the established likes of SEAT and SKODA. So they have to go cheaper and they haven’t. That being said, the Dolphin is the one to watch as it’s going to be the cheapest mid sized EV in the UK by a margin (Unless MG drop the price of the 4 by a lot). They may have shot their bolt bit early as well with the Seagull. There’s a lot of people wanting a city EV with 200+mile range and they may be holding off committing to BYD until they know when/if the Seagull will arrive in Europe.
Hey Sam, can you tell us a little bit about the future market for EVs in South America? Especially for Brazil. We have virtually no EV cars around. Thanks for the great show!
Yeah, there is a huge potential market in South & Central America. It would be interesting to know what the Chinese car companies' strategies are for here.
They are very expensive for a new brand. I think the biggest problem is that there is no data on future value and most cars in Europe and the UK are either leased or bought on pcp contracts and they are overpricing the finance deals.
Agree. Tell them they are dreaming. I’m sure lack of available units partly allows them to price at the high end. As production ramps the price will drop. Keep in mind China just took the trophy as the biggest car exporter in the world.
1) in Germany, BYD are distributed through dealers, exactly those many people want to avoid, and even dealers which are well known for too high prices (Mercedes dealers, for instance) 2) on-line sales are not possible, you will be diverted to dealers (which is utterly stupid) 3) in Germany, BYD is just too expensive, even much too expensive 4) there is no model from BYD which is really needed in the market such as MG4 (Golf Class) and MG5 (Station Wagon)
They need to price more aggressively, even though i know they dont want to come off as a "budget" brand. The Atto 3 in NZ is far cheaper than the Euro version.
BYD and all the new Chinese brands have got their approach totally wrong in Europe. They have all come in with prices that are far too high for cars from brands no-one in Europe knows. The Atto 3 is £15,700 equivalent in China, but they are asking £36k in the UK. If they started it at £29k it would be a serious value proposition and I am certain they would be selling them in large numbers. The Ora Funky Cat is just £12k in China, in the UK they want £32k and no-one buys them, it should be priced from £24k The exception is MG, which we know is a Chinese manufacturer, but the brand is British and consumers don't think of it as novel. Not only that, but they have priced the MG4 competitively and they are selling well. I drove a short local journey yesterday and saw two MG4s on the way. I never see BYD or GWM cars When the Japanese manufacturers came to Europe, they were absolutely a value proposition - we give you more for your money. This allowed them to gain a foothold and build a customer base. Over decades they moved up the price and quality chain and are mainstream now. The Korean manufacturers made the same journey in more recent decades. The Chinese seem to think they can just jump in at the top of the price bracket and make sales, it is a losing strategy
Byd selling well in Thailand cause the price. It's the same price as honda HRV, Toyota collora cross, mazda cx-30 and half the price of Tesla Model Y. 😅 if there price going up close to Tesla people will go for tesla without a doubt
In Thailand the cost of shipping BYD across the border is minimal compared to shipping thousands of km to Europe. That means dealers are passing full shipping cost onto buyers. Other reason is how many people can afford to buy even a petrol engined car for $40000 let alone an ev.
No, it is not ! Corolla Cross is 25 % more expensive, HR-V hybrid is 5 % more, Mazda the same,,,,why we compare non-BEV cars anyway ?? New discounted M 3 is 45 % more expensive, M Y is 60 % more Base price of extended range Atto 3 is 32.000 EUR, standard is below 30 k EUR
BYD's ATTO 3 problem is the very slow charging speed and AC cooling is not strong enough for the Israeli summer. but still is doing very good in israel, sold 8500 units Q1
Great video. First nobody in europe hates china. We continue to deal with them like the rest of the world. Trust, not so much, but hate is a strong word. If they did like the other imports did and have huge warranties, then that would fix that trust issue a little.
BYD did come out with a Kia style 7 year warranty bumber to bumper in Australia initially, but the Aussie dealer, EV direct took a knife to that and carved it up - after people had put down a deposit to purchase. I own one and they are a good car. More than adequate performance, software is great, voice assisstant to perform most tasks etc etc etc. I love it.😶
I believe they should of bought a defunct British name like MG, then it disguises it CCCP origins. So like Triumph (cars not bikes) or Wolsey or riley, austin, jowett, hilman, Jenson. Just what i would do if i owned a car Chinese company trying to crack Europe. Not a prime example but Ssangyong rexton (S korean i know) Would be more palatable as Wolsey Adventure or Jenson X47 or something
@@ensteffo Err, why say that? Russia cannot even make cars now a days. Recently they showed off a new Moskavitch that is actually a rebranded Chinese car. Of course The Soviet Union has not even existed for a long time.
Starting price of Atto3 in the Netherlands: 43k - 3k government bonus = 40k EUR. Starting price in Belgium: almost 45k and no government bonus. Starting price in France: almost 44k EUR. Starting price of bigger, better and faster Tesla Y in Belgium: 48k and already from 45k EUR for demo vehicle with 10k km. Choice seems obvious IMO.
The average family in the UK don't have nearly £40k to spend on a new car let alone a brand they've never heard of. Most people also associate Chinese brands with being much cheaper so if they're competing with the likes of Tesla at similar prices then they haven't done their market research very well.
Many people who end up with £40k cars rarely buy them, they lease them or acquire then via PCP agreements. You have no depreciation concerns with these options....because the residual value of the car after the agreement ends is known at the start, assuming you meet the criteria set by the contract once it ends.... And damage or unreasonable wear will cost you dearly.
@@Brian-om2hh But the company providing the PCP knows the residual value (or maybe doesn't in the case of a new brand). Sometimes it is actually cheaper to buy a more expensive car like a BMW if the residuals are better.
I think it is more because of China's product which is perceived as a low quality product and a apprehension about their motives of investment in any particular country . We see then as a sense of doubts as they are not an open ae
Also it’s one thing buying an electrical product like a TV etc made in China. It’s another to buy something that could kill you if it fails. They would need to give a 10 year unlimited warranty for me to consider one.
Not at all. I would buy a BYD if it was priced at parity, or maximum £1000/€1000 more than MGs. The mark up over MGs does not make any sense. That is why, even in Germany MG has now a 1.7% market share of new sales and BYD is 0.01% (in the UK MG has 4.3% share, but MG position in the UK is unique).
@@MoDa87 Or a five year old car car you can't drive legally because you can't get replace a light lens (which was what a Saab owner was complaining about on a forum).
Dealerships - or the lack of them (at least in the UK) is a big problem. I know where I can get an MG, Hyundai or a Tesla but wheres do I go to get a BYD? Can I trust them to support the car in the future? Nah. I'll buy something that there is a showroom for.
Did Warren Buffet know something that other investors didn't when his company Berkshire Hathaway sold 1.96 million shares of BYD on May 2, 2023????????
I'm European. I would not buy a chinese car even if they let me have it for a bag of peanuts. Reason? Chinese electric cars have a history of spontaneous combustion of their batteries and the companies have systematically refused to accept any responsability. Additionally, who would want to buy a car from a country that is likely to repeat the russian stunt with Ukraine but with Taiwan. As soon as sanctions hit, any replacement part would become non available and I would be left with a piece of static rusting junk. No Thanks.
I'm not a historical car expert, @The electric Viking you are spot on. As an example i believe Hyundai got slow sales in early days in e.g. Denmark, but after some years slowly began to ramp up sales due to consumer-trust, great warranty and great prices. Some of the Chinese car brands seems perhaps to attack the EU car market at a medium high price point.... could an alternative be to offer an entry level EV cars that more consumers can afford. That might be a way to establish the brand awareness of a new brand. When demands increases of the car-consumer, the cheap entry car might then be changed after a couple years to a even better car at a slightly higher price from the same vendor....perhaps a strategy that will work out. Alternatively if BYD could lower the prices with 30-40 % of the Atto 3, it will be a no brainer to win the market.....you don't need expensive overpriced management consultants to figure that one out....
Americans do not seem to share European fears concerning the totalitarian regime in China. Buying a Chinese badged car is a no go. My wife had to buy a Volvo after having a Jaguar on order for over a year. We were very reluctant to buy even a Belgium built car because of the Chinese ownership. The only way for BYD to make any inroads is to sell in the sub £18k bargain basement.
Yes Bevo we should. Jaguars has been sold to Ford previously, and is now owned by Indians Tata motors. And no, no one is going to sell their EVs which are leading edge to u at bargain basement prices. U can pay more for poorer quality ones from the EU. There are markets in other places in the world to be explored.
People will tend to stick to brands they know. In the 1970s a lecturer bought a Timex Digital watch telling us "Timex have made watches for decades so know what they are doing."
Saw the atto 3 at fully charged. Decent enough but it needs to be in the low to mid 30k price range. It's not a premium car no matter what byd think. Its gimmicky and the software is like first gen MG. MG will do fine as long as they keep refining. Byd and ora have been over hyped. The ora felt extremely cheap.
I think this is why BYD is looking into building a factory in Europe. They’ll save in shipping costs as well as being able to avoid the 10% tariff. Once their prices come down and they can also convince Europeans that they are also providing good jobs as well, they’ll be more likely to be embraced there.
Hands down, BYD is making amazing vehicles, that eventually they will be successful world wide. That said, by purchasing one of their vehicles is directly supporting the CCP, and I for one am not ready to do that.
Yes. All large business are tainted by the CCP, unfortunately. Still I admire the Chinese CEOs who make it a go and deal with their interfering government as best they could. When the CCP brought Jack Ma to heel and stopped his amazing expansion of Alibaba.com, I realized no one could escape. It’s just a matter of time before CCP insiders take more control. It’s a noir version of ATLAS SHRUGGED but where John Gault never has power and moves to Canada to retire happily. Unlike Atlas Shrugged, the country seems to get along well enough to avoid becoming a failed state.
Living in the UK, I'd want to avoid the "unknown" Chinese brands for now, because being so new they are unlikely to have many established dealerships. Plus buying Chinese goods carries at least some stigma at the moment, which is likely to worsen if they launch an invasion on Taiwan....
i am glad people in europe not fueling Chinese economy in car department 😁 we have EU manufacturers to support like vovlvo ex30 is coming fantastic car on right price
Generally EU customers would rather buy something made in the EU or at least a major international brand that they trust from a country they view in a decent light. From groceries to cars. A chinese brand would be dead last in my options in Eastern Europe. Long supply chain for parts, very few mechanics know them, chinese quality is hit and miss, brand hasn't built trust and their government certainly is a major minus point in that equation for most europeans.
Would you really want to drive a car with Build your Dreams accross the back? They need to first build a brand identity whether it is price, technology or style/quality. The Atto 3 is just yet another dull and expensive EV SUV.
I concur although the car is actually very well specced and spacious - glass roof, 555L storage, 0-60 in 7.5s. But nobody has ever heard of the brand and its priced perilously close to cars from brands they have heard of. I think BYD would have better luck with its Seagull or Dolphin models assuming they were priced more aggressively. Lots of space to grow in the sub €25,000 end of the market and a lot people are screaming out for an affordable & not-shit EV for that price.
That was my thought, I would never want to drive around with a lame slogan on my car. In China it's exotic because they can't read it. It's like Westerners who get a Chinese character tattooed on their body, for all they know that character might mean that they have syphilis but fortunately for them nobody can read it.
Hi thanks for the video, I am from Germany and the BYD prices are too high, compared to MG models and also compared to the price in China. I don't understand why, but Sixt bought a lot of cars from BYD 👍
3 simple reasons for me (living in Germany). Too big, too expensive (we already have all this on our own!) and charging-port on the WORST POSITION!!! We can't charge BYD cars in narrow garages. I was waiting for the dolphin, but even this will have no success, they made it LARGER, more powerful and mor expensive for Europe - AND it also has the charging-port on the front right, which I simply can't reach, because I have to park very close to the right wall of the garage in order to be able to open the driver's door on the left! And with a pricing similiar to European brands, why should you go for a new Chinese one? WE ASK FOR SMALL AND CHEAP ELECTRIC CARS IN GERMANY SINCE YEARS, AND STILL HAVE NOTHING LIKE THAT!!!
Ja kann gut sein...ich denke auch, dass einfach niemand Interesse an Byd für 73.000 euro hat, wenn man für 90k schon eine EQE 500 wohl kaufen kann.(auch bessere Reichweite für die Mercedes). China hat Chancen in Europa vor allem durch Volvo und MG. Die anderen sollten eher aufgeben...genauso passiert hier, was mit VW in China passiert. Bürger kaufen Ware aus dem Heimat...
@@dnc3861 Volvo war eine kleine Hoffnung für mich, der EX30, der gestern vorgestellt wurde. Von außen ganz nice, mit 4,23m einigermaßen klein, in der Basis-Version mit LFP-Akku, ab 36.590€ - noch nicht wirklich günstig, aber liegt immerhin knapp unter ner ollen Renault Zoe. Aber was mir so gar nicht gefällt: Innen macht der einen auf Tesla, alles läuft nur noch über einen großen Touchscreen in der Mitte. Nichtmal mehr die Geschwindigkeit kann man zentral im Blickfeld hinterm Lenkrad oder als Head-up Display an der Scheibe sehen, nein die wird nur noch auf dem "Tablet" in der Mitte des Fahrzeugs angezeigt! Auch Außenspiegel, Heizung, Lüftung, Radio, Lautstärke etc. - alles nur über den Touchscreen in der Mitte einstellbar. Das werde ich mir wohl nicht antun... Von bidirektionalem Laden auch weiterhin keine Spur.
I agree on the charge port position. Wouldn't work for our house. Has to be rear left or at the front. Right side won't work at all as we park close to a wall and need to get out.
You made a very good point about the charging port position, I hadn't even considered that as a problem.
@@_-Lea_- ja gut, die 340 km Version
macht schon Sinn. Aber anstatt der 460km Version würde ich eher einen Cupra Born nehmen. Born hat bessere Qualität in dem Innenraum, gleiche Reichweite schon mit 58Kwh Batterie, und um 25 cm größer, und kostet nur 39k, anstatt 41k (fast 2.000 Euro weniger.) Ja, PS ist mir egal, über 200. Beide zieht schon genug. Aber die Basisausführung ist richtig TOP, im Sinne von Preis/Leistung, für 36k.
They are way too expensive that's all ! They need to be close to Chinese prices if they want to succeed.
Correct! They need to setup factories in Europe to avoid the tariffs, but in doing so the labor rates are much higher than they are in China so the cars will be pricier than the exact models sold in China. They can sell them at a lower price/profit and try to make it up in volume, but it takes time to ramp up a new car factory.
Then the German manufacturers will complain that the price of Chinese EVs are too low, and they will be not competitive 😅
The tariff is only the VAT, nothing more, it's around 20% in European countries.
That VAT goes on top of any car made in Europe too. And the prices for customers in Europe include the VAT.
It's not 100% or something that you @ksaabli... imply. And you have so much hate in your comment... Why?
The politicians might spread hate and make it complicated, but ordinary people like you and me just want to live our lives. Ordinary people are friendly, I see it in the comments in any language, just friendlyness, just living a normal live. That's really great.
That’s unfair.
@@pnketiaOnly that China has no problem automating way more so barely any workers will be needed.
I don’t know of anyone here in GB who thinks MG is a British brand, its Chinese with an old British badge glued on the front of it
True…but we still sort of feel more comfortable with them
This is one Chinese made car brand that sells reasonably well in the UK. That’s purely down to their relatively low price point, where economics trump ethics for that customer demographic. Not many people believe it is a British brand any longer, because most people have more between their ears than Sam gives them credit for.
Honestly you’d be shocked at how many think that MG is British, Volvo and polestar are Swedish and that VAG/merc and bmw don’t use Chinese parts heavily, I call it badge blindness.
@@WEZ4136 We all know MG is Chinese Volvo is Swedish designed and built just Chinese owned and Polestar although chinese owned and built is still designed in Sweden. Almost everything these days has some Chinese components i mean look at the iphone ect. Good example is a Rolls still a Rolls or is it a BMW and is a Bently still a Bently or is it a VW. Try telling a Lamborghini owner its really an Audi ect ect
I was chatting to the MG salesman in Ireland when I was picking up my MG4 that he had 200(!) orders on backlog and he even scrolled through a spreadsheet list of them, that other dealers were fighting over a shipment of 400 MGs arriving that still wasn't enough to satisfy demand. Then he told me that he knew somebody who selling Ora Cats who had sold a grand total of 3 with hundreds of them sitting in inventory. Literally every colour and spec could be ordered and delivered the next day but yet they had sold 3 total ever. Clearly it's still not enough for a Chinese manufacturer to dump cars onto the market - they have to be good cars and affordable to overcome the risk people associate with a new brand. It also takes time to build a reputation and MG have been around long enough to built it whereas other names haven't. I think BYD has the clout to overcome this problem in time but I wonder about some of the others. I should also point out that an MG4 costs €29,000-36000 whereas an Atto 3 starts from €39,000. That's nearly Tesla territory if they want to make splash they need to sell something cheaper.
Tesla Model 3 costs about 30% more in Ireland than China. Apply the same markup to an Atto 3 and it would be €24k and sell in serious volume but no, BYD are looking for €39k. I was interested in the Seal, but now I would not be surprised it they try to price it above a Model 3.
@@Radaos I don't know but is it because of tariffs?
@RWJH Every car in Ireland is imported....so there's always Tariffs. Plus, most Teslas are probably coming in from China.
Ireland have an illegal tax called VRT adds a fortune onto the price
I’ve been selling MGs for nearly a decade. I swear what a horrible quality car 🤢🤮 but people love cheap cars. Byd looks amazing quality but expensive. MG is controlled by Shanghai anyway so what’s the difference?
Having lived in Denmark, Italy, mainland China, Taiwan and Spain. Each for a year or more. I have learned a few things. One, generally speaking, citizens of each of these countries bias their purchasing decisions heavily on both the politics, and social responsibility, of the producing country.
We don't seem to care much here in the US. We just want it cheap. Though there is a fringe element that use grievance issues, or some anti globalist excuse to basically hate on whoever or whatever is the flavor of the day.
Because the US actually imposed import quotas on jp cars & demanded appreciation of the yen and the jp obeyed... remember the toshiba smashing? Chrysler had to be bailed out in 1979. Essentially the free capital account of the US drives goods trade deficit. There's no way to stop that.
The funny thing is that most Teslas sold in the U.K. are made in China. However, people have been seeing Teslas on the road for the last ten years and expect then to be around for at least another ten years. We have seen many car brands come and go like Proton, Daewoo, and even the U.K.s Rover. The main reason I won't buy a Mitsubishi now is that they are pulling out of the U.K. so good luck getting an support in five years time.
@@I_Love_Figs That's nonsense the US didn't do any such thing there was no tariffs or quotas to us even as the auto industry Detroit a little bit the Democrats to do that They didn't. The US domestic auto industry had to face the onslaught of Japanese imports which were superior in quality and reliability and in the pain they retooled and learned the hard way now here's the thing the Europeans didn't because they enjoyed the very thing that you suggest that import quotas and duties. What the Americans did was to persuade the Japanese to start to manufacture by assembling in the US. The Japanese did that and so did the Germans with Volkswagen. This was a 'Gentleman's Agreement'. This wasn't about quotas or tariffs. Please check to see what tariffs there were and what actual quotas they were and please let us know cuz that'll be interesting as a turn of event in history at least which nobody else is able to find.
@@Rapture77 You've never heard of the Plaza Accord or the Chicken Tax? You don't remember of all these tv segments from the 80's where they were smashing Japanese cars?
@@johnsullivan8673 The Chicken Tax was from another area during the Lyndon Johnson era and it covered a very specific segment. We're talking about the '80s '90s and the current century when Japanese brands were/are admired and motoring reviews in the media were positive. Isolated episodes do not define the overall attitude towards the Japanese brands in the US which are far more positive than Europe and Asia. So much so jealous markets even suggest that the Japanese bribe the US motoring journalist which is utter nonsense. JD Power and Associates and Consumer Reports are American publications and market research organizations and they have consistently placed the Japanese brands right on top for over 30 years.
Isolated news coverage of Japanese bashing is not an example of the overall attitude and the arc of respect and admiration for Japanese quality in the automotive space. I lived in the UK, Asia and currently in the US, and I must say that I don't see the similar attitude towards Japanese auto brands in Europe nor in Asia. The Plaza Accord is not relevant because the Accord was about currency changes and left the Japanese at a disadvantage for sure. Nonetheless the Japanese auto industry did exceedingly well and was favorably praised by the American market much more so than the Europeans. The Europeans declared that the Japanese could never enter the luxury auto market. They were so wrong and the Euro luxury market was completely almost destroyed. Lexus was hailed as perfect by the US motoring journalist while the Europeans were skeptical and arrogant.
Let's get one thing straight the US remains the most open and free market in the world for autos and prices are automobles in the US are cheaper than even Europe or Asia.
BYD is priced too expensively overseas. That's pretty clear. But they're a smart company and obviously know this too, so it's also obviously purposeful. The question is, Why?
I suspect it's a combination of being supply constrained due too triple digit growth at home, and wanting to avoid being stereotyped as a down-market/cheap brand. As more supply comes online and they mature their overseas operations and marketing, I'm optimistic pricing will self-correct.
Fact is that western resellers are the problem. It's not just BYD or Chinese cars - buy a product directly from China and it is very cheap. Buy exactly the same products (because you are racist and only buy from "trustworthy" western resellers) from western resellers and they will charge up to 10 times and more. Pricing will self-correct when BYD sells its cars directly and not over greedy and dubious western resellers.
Gregg, I absolutely agree...pricing now is not an issue from distributor markups, it is more about strategy from main HQ...
I am sure they know it, maybe a smart move...I would really like to have someone do analysis on this, it would be very very interesting business case, all of us could learn something about it. We are all biased trough our education with agressive, stuffing the channel ideas...hmmm, maybe we all shoud re-think Jack Welch ideas ?
Also they see Europe as their high margin market in their global strategy given the hoops they need to jump through to sell their cars there as well as possible sanctions they may face if they became too successful. If they want to sell with low margin, then Chinese domestic market as well as global south are better options. You can see it in the car models as well, with cheaper cars not being offered in Europe. Though BYD seems to be introducing their dolphin in Europe, so we'll wait and see.
@@WangGanChang White supremacist trash Europe is nothing else but a footnote for China.
Agreed, but it’s the same for Chinese people buying imported European cars, for example in Ireland bmw i7(xdrive 60)are from 140 000 euro, it’s about 980 000 rmb, they selling 1 458 000 rmb in china. I think it’s all down to politics.
Too be honest all car prices in Europe are too expensive. But EV prices are 😳!!!
Those giants are way too slow on moving to EVs
30k for a smart EV. They are crazy. No way. Prices need to fall below 10k for me to even consider a small EV like that.
Well said!! Because European prices are stupidly high, particularly for EV's, the Chinese brands are undercutting but benefitting so they can also overprice. Thankfully the consumer is beginning to wise up!
@@MoDa87 You are asking for 2000 prices in 2023. If you want to pay below 10K you can get them at 8 to 10 years old. Thinking about it I have not paid less than £30K for a car since the early 90s and I do not waste money on expensive cars.
@@MoDa87 For under 10k your feet get to be the motor.
I expect BYD to start its own sales network, like Tesla. The middleman are short sighted and profit driven. There's little incentive for them to consider the branding and long term market strategy.
Or Chargin infrastructure
Except Tesla have dealerships I know where the local one is (which used to be Porsche) so would know where to go if I had a problem.
@@MrDuncl Tesla started with many showrooms in Germany where you see and touch the real car.
wont work, the europe isnt the US it wont let china product dumb on it because it itself product dumps. Europe not gonna allow china to take market its own companies can take
BYD got into longer term deals with major importers with existing infrastructure, best I can tell at least. As an example in the Netherlands, they deal with Louwman, who's a huge player in the market for like six brands, present in most major cities.
Source: I'll have my Atto 3 next week.
For me it was a major consideration that A Louwman's backing them and B BYD is already huge in China, because I know Louwman isn't going to just disappear and they aren't known for being grifters like Tesla are. So if I were to park it up a tree or something, I'm not going to be left without parts or garages who know how to do the work.
Before deciding I also made a few phonecalls with Chinese branches of BYD, asking them if A a private export could be arranged (yes, but not worth the money, so apparently it's a real dumping-price right now to open up the European market) and B if I could order parts from China, and the answer was yes.
So even if Louwman were to mysteriously explode as a company, I'd be able to get parts at a speed that outpaces Tesla significantly.
I should however add that I speak Mandarin and a bit of Cantonese, so if you can only communicate in English, your experience may be different. They (Guangzhou branch) can do English, but some technical and tax terms I could easier cover in Mandarin.
They face the same challenge that Korean cars did when first introduced to new market. Hyundai & Kia eventually got over that by including a 10-years/100,000 miles warranty to every vehicle sold.
And by being cheaper than the European counterparts
Japanese and Korean car are only established their. Never being main stream by any mean
They also cut corners so that the cars can be stolen by any 12 year old.
... let's not forget the first Japanese cars that rusted faster than a woman's wohaa can get fishy.
@@林振华-t4v? Toyota Corolla...
Everyone knows in the UK that MG is chinese. There cars do well because they are priced right.
@@johnsmith-cw3wo I don’t and isn’t that a bit insulting?
@@novainvicta no it is just the facts
and people know where they can test drive them, buy them, then get them serviced.
I’m not sure that people do know they’re Chinese but sure the price is a big factor
Everybody in Europe knows MG are Chinese.
Let me bait a few Atto owners. Coming from a gas car and test driving a BYD it seems pretty decent. But then you go drive a Tesla and you realise the Atto lacks many refinements. A lot of money is spent on gimmicks like coloured cabin lights and kitschy guitar strings instead of things that matter, like performance, efficiency, range, ADAS, charging speed, etc. In an educated market like Europe BYD will be penalised for this. Now I know someone from China will fire back at me saying “You can’t compare with Tesla because it’s a different segment!”. Well sorry, BYD have chosen to put the Atto in the same segment by pricing it within $10K of the Tesla. So rightly or wrongly buyers will compare the two cars. And the Atto 3 will be found wanting.
The only fault for BYD is pricing lmao. You look at China pricing, indeed atto 3 or Yuan plus is only 20k usd while tesla is 32k. their overseas pricing is indeed very high. I would really want to know WHY are they doing this...
Let's see in 5 years. You pretending that BYD and other Chinese BEV makers are running out if time is kinda cute...but it's the usual western behavior.
Also: you confuse the Seal (Model 3) and the Dolphin (Model Y) with the Atto 3. And if there ever appears a Model 2 - its counterpart is the Seagull. Han is the counterpart to the model S. I am not even sure that BYD takes the Atto3 serious. To meet it seems like a car that BYD issued so people can criticize what to make better with the next generations of BYD cars. This is necessary because Asians have quite different preferences when it comes to a car...thus it makes sense to release a dummy like the Atto 3 to learn what Westerners prefer.
@Hyper_SSR So you’re saying BYD is going to take the Samsung phone approach and Tesla is the Apple approach. BYD is going to see what people ask for and give them a hole bunch of options to choose from over time. Tesla is building the car people want without them knowing that’s what they wanted.
Both strategies can work.
@@Hyper_SSR Me confused? How can you compare the Dolphin with Model Y when it's half the size ? BTW, the Dolphin has just launched in NZ (and soon Australia) with a price tag similar to the Atto 3 - $55K. Can't see that running out the door. When the Model 2 arrives it will be around $35K. I expect the Seagull will be $40K+ if the BYD overpricing trend continues. Good luck BYD!
Having driven both the Atto 3 and Tesla Model 3, the Atto 3 is more tuned for comfort and soaks up bumps better. This might not excite the enthusiast press, but many people prefer it. And some people prefer having buttons and voice control for key functions. The car is also better put together with no rattles, no loose or misaligned panels, etc. Not the same level of performance and software was not be fully updated for Europe... but the actual vehicle is more refined for what it is.
A major factor is the logistics and duty costs. Tesla Model Y ex Berlin has a big logistic cost advantage vs any car coming from China. Also building a car in Berlin means tarrif free transfer within EU and EFTA, vs a 10% duty on Chinese imports. Also for Chinese products coming into the EU, these are liable for full VAT payment at Port of entry, whereas intra EU B2B sales are essentially VAT free. A lot of costs and cash flow tie ups when sending cars to EU from China versus easy EU trade.
Then why is the byd atto 3, starting at 39k in Ireland, and the cheapest vw electric is id3 at 42k, with the id4 starting at 47k Thats from a byd main dealer in Ireland, not importing it yourself.
Tesla sold in European markets are made in China so why should be in different position to Chinese brands.
@@Mr.T-SI they are not, they are quite expensive in Europe, however they had brand recognition before entering the market. People see them on TV, see famous people driving them etc so they can explain away this premium but it's something they are trying to change with EU plants.
@@Mr.T-SI Tesla was and still is expensive in Europe. The Berlin just recently started making significant numbers but only on the Model Y. That's one of the reasons why Model Y overtook Model 3 in sales. The other reason is obviously the fact that we like SUVs. But In the case of Tesla it was really something new and innovative. They don't have the best quality but they have really good features which helped them greately improve their brand recognition. The Chinese don't offer anything more in fact they offer less and in the same time they put similar or higher prices than Tesla. Ofc we also have to add that we in Europe despite being late to the party started making some really good EVs. Our advantage is that we really know how to make cars and more importantly how to make good world-leading cars. Our EVs are really catching up to competitors like Tesla and on the very very top 0.1% of EVs we are the best. No competition for cars like 7-series from BMW or EQS. Ofc these are not mass cars but still this shows how far we can push the barrier. We need to become as good in the Model 3/Y area and we will be once again the best. Only time will tell but as of now Tesla leads and we love them.
Takes time: Nobody knows them in Europe. Out of 10 people, 7 have never heard of BYD. Maybe in 2-3 years it will change.
Not unless they reduce prices a lot. MG is doing very well in UK/Ireland as they are priced 10-20% below most of the competition.
I suspect many people will think that they are another Proton or Daewoo who disappeared in the U.K. as quickly as they appeared leaving owners with no support. Funny that he mentions Great Wall. I only discovered recently that they already tried to sell an ICE pickup here about a decade ago. Good luck getting any parts from that compared to say a Ford Ranger. And yes you will need parts if only things like a wing mirror to replace one that got broken.
I think most people realise MG is a Chinese brand but seeing that they have had dealerships here for well over a decade gives them confidence they will be around in another ten years. Polestar is known to be part of of Volvo. Pretty obvious from the number of their cars I see sat at the local Volvo dealer that has also been there for decades. I wonder how many people actually go with a dealership rather than a brand. I was surprised at how many Mustang Mach Es there are locally. Then I realised that the local Ford dealership is proudly celebrating 70 years of being there. Which would you choose? A Ford from a well established dealership or a Yingtong spekial with no dealerships.
In conclusion brands like Dongfeng will sell far better if they put a familiar badge like Dacia on the front. Oh they have already had that idea with the Dacia Spring EV/
Model y is 39K eur, id3 also 39k and mg4 is 37K soo 😂😊
I think price is a huge factor, BYD and GWM BEVs are expensive, much more expensive than MG. Polestars are also expensive but they have positioned themselves as a luxury brand, which is a small segment of the market. If BYD and GWM want to set selling cars in the UK they need to lower their prices and invest in advertising. If it’s tariffs that make them expensive then they need to invest in factories in Europe and the UK.
@@miti4045 at least here in Finland model Y LR is 55.000 euros, MG4 is 27.900 euros, people who don't have much money, go with MG4.
The main problem is the price. They're selling the Atto 3 here in the Netherlands, which starts at 43.000 euro. For the same price people prefer to buy a known brand like Tesla, Volkswagen, Audi, Ford etc. If they want to succeed they got to follow Toyota's strategy from the 80's. Sell well build cheap small cars. Small cars (b class segment) sell well here. Or they have to go a segment lower, cause MG sells pretty well here and their cars start at 32.000 euro.
BYD has still has significant automotive gross profit in China at 20.7% 1Q, while roughly doubling sales and production YoY every month. Sales growing 2.5 times as fast as Tesla overall. Selling every car they can make. Several models still have significant wait times. There is little incentive at the moment to try to compete on price in Europe. They have room to drop the price, and likely will when they can catch up.
Meanwhile, Geely Group is actually doing very well. Once you add all the brands together (Volvo, Polestar, Lotus, Lynk & Co, Smart, etc.) they actually beat Tesla in some European markets. But people do not associate many of those brands with China. The new EX30, starting at $35k, is likely to sell very well. It also will put a lot of pressure on other companies to drop prices.
Uhm, BYD sells for 41.5K in the Netherlands right now. If I did a private import from China, I'd end up paying roughly 40K-40.5K. That wasn't worth it for me so I used their official importer instead.
Delivery time was 2 weeks. Maybe there's a wait list in China, but they seem to have committed to storming the European market.
Kia E-Niro is sort of the competitor, but has a 2 year delivery wait list. Yeah, big ol' bag of 'nope' from me on that proposition. Plus Kia batteries catch fire.
The EX30? Remember though that Volvo makes super-heavy cars. I have ridden armoured vehicles that as their empty weight are coming into the same weight category as overly fat Volvo SUVs. Actually, the Wiesel tankette including armour and an autocannon, weighs less than Volvo's Ex90. 😆
The EX series is about to spill into the 3000+ kg weight bracket fully loaded, and that's just sloppy manefacturing. Plus you will actually need to get a lorry license to drive it as 3K is the weight limit.
Around here that Volvo EV weight means that starting in 2026, you're going to be hit with a road tax anywhere between "It's not good" and "Hahaha, who even has that much money?" for your shitty 3 ton Volvo.
Maybe others care less, but for me, not getting arrested for driving without a license because it's technically a truck, and having atrocious power use due to weight, are kinda important.
By contrast on taxes, if my calculations are correct, the Atto3 is going to land in the same road tax bracket as my current (rather shitty) Fiesta, maybe one bracket above.
I bought the Fiesta at the time because it's the 2nd cheapest tax bracket, go figure.
Lots of business drivers around here go Lynk&Co because it allows them to have the big fat SUV their inferiority complex desires, but it's technically a hybrid and therefore still cheap on the taxes compared to the same big fat SUV as a diesel. I've a pretty strong opinion on their value-for-money ratio but there's no denying that have a succesful strategy. 👍
Lotus isn't a thing around here, it simply doesn't exist.
Polestar's not that visible in the market. You do sometimes see them, but they're fairly expensive compared to what you buy. Good effort, probably not about to conquer the market?
I wouldn't want to be a Tesla dealer right now really. Sure they have their fanboys and an existing market share based on being first, but the word is out on their shitty value-for-money, the parts upsell scam, atrocious repair times, weird brake failures during crashes, software faults. Heck the EU outright banned the use of the broken 'Autopilot'.
Not that the average Tesla fanboy taking a nap while permanently stuck in the middle lane at low speed cares about what's legal, but that's probably not the sort of situation that future market dominance is made of.
Are they part of the great EV ponzi scam in China with thousands of vehicles sitting dumped in fields to inflate their sales numbers and get massive subsidies from the CCP?
Sales ta fields ta rot
Well obviously because they are not Chinese brands. Volvo, Polestar, Lotus they are European brands held by Chinese companies. Yet they are very far from Tesla
Also BYD is no longer doubling sales every month. They used to but they no longer do. Partly because of Tesla's price war which they are currently winning. Many Chinese brands like NIO and Xpeng are losing marketshare in China which is extremely bad as these are their only real markets. BYD is no longer growing like they did the last 2 years as well.
😂 it's ALWAYS about the Price.. people don't care if a car is made in Hell. As long as it's quality and a low price
You mean Value. Price and value are two different things.
Would you have bought a VW from Germany in 1939?
@@entropy5431 yes. Next question please?
@@DanRyzESPUK There are no more questions, that is all I needed to know.
@@DanRyzESPUK Maybe you would have but most of the europeans would NOT have bought a car from nazi Germany.
You are a minority with your TOTAL lack of buying ethics.
Most people have some kind of ethics, even if it activates only in pretty severe cases (like Nazi Germany).
For example, China's genocide of the Uygur has still not been enough for most people but it will, as China is becoming more and more aggressive in the South-China Sea, supports Russia in the Ukrain war ...etc
Sam I agree to greedy! BYD, NIO, LI AUTO should rethink their strategy.
The BYD Atto 3 starts in Austria at 42,990 € The Tesla Y RWD 45.870 €. About the same battery kWh, cw=0.29 at the Atto far higher, so about same range. But the Y has far more interior space and a a trailer hitch for 1600 kg.
Totally agree, it's all about price, for the around the same price and specs Tesla is way more trustworthy than any Chinese brand, if they price it more competitively it would sell more
I am European and consider myself a small petrolhead (at least in the past when there were less restrictions). If I would consider to buy today an EV, the choice would be certainly not BYD (or any Chinese brand) despite their good technology. They lack ownership pride completely, not great styling, driving comfort (suspension mainly). It would be a Tesla, VW, Audi or the like. On top of that they cost similar prices than what you pay for the preferred examples. If the price would be >30% cheaper, I could consider for a A-to-B type vehicle, but otherwise, thank you
spot on. If they want to be percieved as a "premium", they should do at least one feature which is way better than does any of the competitors, even better than Tesla. For such price , it could have been a design, but the played safe game.
Part of the problem is that they are latecomers and also not a recognised brand (if they are known it is for commercial vehicles). Being late, it is losing sales to the MG4 (tens of thousands per quarter) vs Atto3 (tens). Also, as you mention, the price seems high.
We should remember in Australia the Japanese had to overcome WWII sentiments and build quality. Is there a similar sentiment based on relations between China and Russia. Are the Chinese underwriting the cost of the Russia Ukrainian conflict having signed an Energy Supply Agreement? We should never underestimate the power of persuasion and distribution social media has given what used to be the silent majority.
Just making stuff up now. Chinese underwriting the war??? Isn’t Europe themselves buying Russian oil indirectly anyways or India and the US reselling Russian oil to Europe. Yes US are currently buying Russians oil to this date.
Without advertisement and car dealers sentiments don't matter
Japan tried to invade Australia, all China ever did was buy from and thus create jobs for Australia. China can not overcome anti-China propaganda in Australia because there's nothing to correct from except them being Chinese.
BYD need to reduce the price and advertise.
Exactly, the high price is the main issue here, just had a look at their website and the price for the Atto 3 range from around £36,000 to almost £40,000!
It's tarrifs. BYD need a assembly plant in Europe to beat the tariffs. Its that simple
I don't even know the price, because it has never been advertised in way, so I guess they have not even started yet
@@ToriZealot they have,just Google BYD UK and all the prices are there in black and white.
@@mickfitz76 BYD also needs to open their own stores like apple stores I mean no middle men eating profits by selling in price
The problem is that to date Chinese branded i.c.e cars have been pretty terrible with regards to quality/longevity and resale value. They will have to prove otherwise before the west accepts them.
i am driving now a BYD atto3, the lower class of BYD family , it is extremely gorgeous, much better than my Audi middle class driving experience!
Absolutely true. It happened with the Japanese, then the Koreans, and now the Chinese. It takes about 2 decades before they learn to have the same quality as western brands regardless of what some say. Those same very few will buy them while the majority will keep away until then.
Ha good one quality humor
@@junehanzawa5165 In Asia, we consider American and European cars as the bottom tier cars.
@@rogerfaint499 Roger the Asian 😂
Totally agree Mr Viking. I live in Okinawa/Japan. Something strange is happening, I have been watching the price of used Nissan leaf 2018 model for about 1 year. Just recently the price dropped quite considerably. So today I went to see a used Nissan leaf 2018 for ¥1.500.000 very nice in new condition. Then I went to Naha capital of Okinawa to the BYD show room to have a look at the BYD atto 3 I love this car but at a starting price of ¥4.4 million yen it's just a bit too much. Sorry this is sounding very long but my point is you can buy a very good used Nissan leaf 2018 for a much lower price.
Also Chinese brands in europe have huge problems getting cars repaired. If you are in a fairly small accident it is a high probability that the car will be written of. This drives insurance costs through the roof.
What I hear about low sales from BYD in Europe, is all about pricing, like you said. How can they expect sales in Europe if they are not 30% cheaper than Tesla or even Renault, VW, and on and on.
Since Tesla lowered the prices here in Sweden there is really not much competition, in my opinion. Especially since the Model Y standard is priced the way it is. There is almost no difference to Model 3 after you add the 14000 SEK towing hook which comes as standard on Y. I basically stopped looking at car reviews. The alternatives right now are either a used Model 3 or a new Model Y.
Agree, Tesla is such a great deal right now. And you get the safest car on the road along wi the best mileage and autoupdates. Hassle free driving, but maybe a bit boring
@@Tottorul You can get a lot of goodies in other brands such as head up display, ventilated seats, actual matrix headlights, soundproofing and lots more. Tesla is behind others on features. But can you get any more competent EV for the money? I doubt it.
Three things BYD needs to do in my opinion in the European market.
1) Reduce the price of the Atto 3
2) Remove the full brand name from the rear trunk/boot door. Just put BYD letters on the rear. European, especially UK buyers won't want to be seen driving a car with "Build Your Dreams" on the back of the car!
3) Offer a long warranty period e.g 7 years with maybe 3 years servicing thrown in.
To get a foothold in Europe and to establish the brand, they need to sell at cost with sweeteners.
Spot on. I live in Sweden and sedans are not an option here, no one buys them. Tesla Y is around 570 000 sek and BYD ato 3 is 545 000 sek. For me to by an unknown Chinese brand it would have to be around 200 000 cheaper. And maybe even that would not be enough.
Hi Sam
Love the channel, always informative, always a good watch. The reason BYD are failing in Europe is quite simple. In Europe (and particularly the UK) we are very Brand conscious, people have embraced Tesla with such speed because they produce great cars ( I drive a LR Model Y) and they are put in the same bracket as BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. I’m not in the least bit surprised BYD will fail in Europe, Chinese products are widely considered to be cheap crap in Europe. Unless a BYD EV is not at least 40-50% cheaper than a Tesla nobody, and I do mean nobody would be caught dead in one of those things.
how the people of France will buy that price 46 690 € ...420 km.????Volkswagen ID.2 is 25 000 euros with 450 km
Exactly. Atto 3: 440km, size of an id3, 43.000 euro
Cupra born: 450km, 39.000 euro
Vw id4: 530 km, 45.000 euro
Tesla model Y long range: 520km, 400hp, 52.000 euro.
Who Tf chooses Byd????
Spot on in your analysis. The GWM ORA Cat lots of interest at £25K but they released a low range, quite stylist but poor utility vehicle at £30K plus. Interest tanked. The boot is actually useless for most jobs. They were just poor value for money.
Byd are too expensive in UK probably from import taxes also only a couple of dealerships are selling them ,so hard to get to even see one. In Nottingham we have two MG dealerships . Also MG4 has had a few issues with after service getting hold of parts with being a new model car. And infotainment on Chinese cars are not up to what we expect ,that also goes for VW so not just a china problem
The infotainment system in my MG4 is definitely it's weak spot. It "works" but it has too many annoyances and bugs to actually enjoy using.
One of the issues with selling Chinese EVs in the UK is the reported finding Chinese government tracking devices on board. Apparently without the knowledge of the Chinese companies.
I think very few UK people believe that MG is British. We’re not that stupid despite leaving the EU.
stop giving urselves too much credit
@@christopherchen6170 if you thinks he’s wrong just prove it he is.
@@heribertosarmiento1265 I ain't gotta prove shit. I gotta prove my thoughts now wtf is wrong with u bro
@@christopherchen6170 ? Prove I'm wrong then 🙂
"A Chinese tracking device was discovered inside a UK government car after officials carried out security sweep.
The tracker was found sealed inside a part that had been imported from China, prompting concerns of widespread espionage.
At least one SIM card capable of transmitting location data was found during the sweep of the cars, which are used to carry diplomats and senior government officials.
Former Conservative leader and foreign secretary Iain Duncan Smith, a prominent backbencher who has been very vocal on China-related issues, said the incident shows Beijing should be considered a threat.
He told the i: ‘I don’t know how much more the UK needs to know about the threat China poses to us all. Surely it is time to change the integrated review and refer to China as a systemic threat.’
Intelligence officials believe Beijing is taking a broad-sweeping approach to eavesdropping in the West, rather than bugging specific ministers’ cars, but still a big vulnerability has been exposed."
You are 100% wrong about the Atto3 Sam. I have been driving the Atto3 for 5months on the Uber platform. The vehicle or spaceship which is what my passengers call it gets great feedback about comfort,ride quality,tech and materials used. In my opinion there’s not a better vehicle for ride share businesses.
Thanks for the info
Yes Sam, at least in my case you've nailed it. I was so looking forward to BYD coming to Germany. That's where I live by the way. But when I learned their pricing here, I've abandoned my plans on buying an EV for the time being.
There's another influence on the issue though. Since our government decided to go head-to-head with our main energy supplier our economy is on the way down. Mainstream media doesn't talk about it, but it's getting worse bit by bit. Inflation rate is high. A lot of us ordinary people do have other problems than deciding which car to buy. And since the light at the end of the tunnel is actually the headlights of the oncoming train, everything is more likely to get worse than better in times to come.
Stop supporting Ukraine, seriously. I'm in Ireland when we gave the top part of our country to the UK because they demanded it, you didn't send us billions of euro in wepaons. You stood up and applauded us for being brave enough to chose peace, and today you pay respect to us by helping us to make that peace deal work during brexit. What is ukraine to you? you had no economic or military deals, but youre going to put yourself in debt, and cause housing crisis across the EU. I get it Russia bad, but we thought UK was bad. So what if Ukraine lost 3 areas of its land? Spain lost gibralta etc. End the war, secure your energy, step onto greener/more controllable energy at an easier pace, and get back on track. Just to give you abit of insight, Ireland took ukranian refugees because Germany asked, if they all were put in the same spot, they would be the 3rd biggest city in ireland, they take 1.5 billion a year in rent alone. Ireland has ended up 450,000 homes behind (germany has over 1.8 million empty homes, Ireland will need to build 450,000 just to get catch up with the growing population). All while Ireland pays off german debt that was held in Irish banks during the last crash. Through all that Ireland is still a net contributor to the EU budget, and paid for other countries in the EU for their covid, like paid for poland. DOnt get me wrong, Ireland loves being in the EU and benefits a lot, a lot of English speaking american companies set up in Ireland. but... sprinting at full speed during a time when you are making the most money you have in a long long time, and still seeing the finish line move further and futher away is heart breaking.... You wont get paid for the leopards because Russia is going to win, the part of Ukraine left belongs to Blackrock (american investment company) and no german companies will make money there. Wallstreet will get rich rebuilding ukraine, but germany wont see a cent.
When germany decided to bite the hand that feeds you (russia) no more gas foe u guys
@@mossmusap338
Germans are very obedient to authorities by nature. They tend to follow their leaders right into the abyss. I wonder about that my whole life. Well, there's a growing part that seems to come to their senses. Time will tell if that's gonna change anything. But for the time being, you're right. Unfortunately.
I cant recall seeing an advert or a dealer for any of them (UK)
Nobody would customers to "want" a car without ads and dealers.
The problem is the price 😢
Pricing, pricing, pricing. Unknown brand without a track record, mundane styling and strange interior.
Why would you pay £ 38,000 plus for an Atto 3?
As the market matures it becomes more important to understand the pedigree of the brand - where it came from, who builds it, who buys it, what do you neighbors think about it, etc. Tesla has a long history of building EVs and has a fantastic operational background - from how they are built in the factory, to the internal electronic systems (infotainment, etc.). It is really a great car. Plus, it is built in Europe - Germany, which to most people in the world - the Germans make the best cars, period!
They seem to be very overpriced compared to those on sale in China
there's ZERO advertising and promotion of BYD in EU, so people don't even know about them to large extent. This is definitely one of the major reasons.
Three reasons why they are failing; Price, long term reliability, and a decent warranty (or lack of). Quality seems “ok”, but not at the current price
@@johnsmith-cw3wothat’s not a problem in Europe. The real issue is a worry about reliability. Especially Germans are very worried about safety. I personally will never be an early adopter for something as expensive as an EV. Prices need to be half of a European EV for me to even consider a none European or Toyota.
China is none for cheating and scamming when it comes to what they make. So I am not putting my life in their hands.
@@MoDa87 As a Tesla owner who did test German EVs, I can tell you Tesla is miles ahead. Quality is better than in the past, warranty is there, servicing and reliability are there as well, comfort and performance, pricing dropped and the charging infrastructure is extensive. I would buy Tesla again before any EU EV mate.
@@EskiZagra Tesla is in a class of its own. They are Years ahead of everyone. Obviously they are first choice at the right price.
It is the price gouging practice in Malaysia that has stopped me from buying the BYD Atto3. Price must not be more expensive than our neighbour Thailand.
With Tesla cutting prices significantly here in the UK and having a charging network that actually kind of makes things work..
To be honest, here in NL I’ve seen more BYD commercials than their cars.
And the only xpeng is on display in their showroom in Leidschendam.
I think that you have summed it up pretty well. It is a combination of pricing, the image of made in China and that most of Chinese brands are unknown.
I've seen this on here before, so I won't be surprised next week if they turn into monumental successes.
It takes time to build a brand especially in Europe many companies have done it by starting with good value models & gaining a reputation for reliability, value & availability of spares before adding more expensive cars to their range. Remember a car is a significant purchase to an individual. Most people prefer not to take a chance with such a rare purchase. Also geo-political tensions between the US & China mean worries about maintenance if relations become worse.
This is the type of advert necessary when a well established brand, known for its rallying successes decides to move upmarket ruclips.net/video/BttVG7p1MfE/видео.html
I will buy it immediately if it comes to Canada
Byd wants 40+k € for atto 3 while volvo just launched the superior ev ex30 for 35 000 €, bye bye byd
It's all about price. MG (which we all know in the UK is Chinese) has exactly the right price for that type of car. BYD is £10,000 over the amount I would spend for a car of that size and range.
The UK market is used to buying from franchised dealers, so you can get you car serviced from the dealer you bought it from. If I buy a BYD in the UK, how far do I need to drive to get any problems resolved or just an annual service?
Cleveleys EV service comes to your house or job
In Finland, the price of BYD Atto 3 starts at 44 250 €. It's more than brand new Tesla model 3.
Most EVs sold in Norway in 2023 have been Tesla Model Y. Convenient and good price in the first quarter. Not that cheap now. One also has to consider that Europe is in a really bad spot geopolitically, the future doesn’t look too good. That is also making it more difficult to be new in a market.
I was looking at buying an Atto3. Tried to be ok with the interior, but no. Glad I didn’t buy it, turns out in a large new test here in Norway that it has 100 km less range than my Kona. The BYDs had around 15% less range than their WLTP. Xpeng had best results with around 10% longer ranger than WLTP. I will buy an Xpeng, which I think many will. Good value.
I would never ever consider buying a chinese car brand. It's just not wise to do that. It's plain stupid.
I live in Germany. According to the BYD website, there are less than 20 dealers in Germany. My next BYD dealer is 200 km from where I live. The next VW dealer is 500 m from my door. Any question? EVs also need maintenance and repairs. A good dealer network is the base.
In the UK:
1. No advertising whatsoever
2. Unknown outside of the EV enthusiast community
3. Expensive
4. Boring on the outside, ugly on the inside
5. Only 4 dealerships in the entire country
First rate prices for third rate product with an unknown brand, almost no dealerships from a country threatening war. Not really a good strategy as you say.
Rebrand it to such as MG and sales would be crazy.
Just compare the price to the MG's in the UK. There's your answer.
Sam, I think you are mistaken, most people in the UK don't think that MG is still a British brand. The MG4 is selling well because it had almost universally good reviews and, most importantly, is very keenly priced compared with its direct competitors. One of the main stumbling blocks for EV sales in the UK is their high price and the MG4 looks a good option if you are on a tight budget.
Absolutely this. The MG4 would be a car I'd be seriously looking at buying if I needed to buy now. The ATTO 3 / Dolphin are way overpriced for what they are.
Spot on! Pricing is an issue with Byd. The brand perception is low so can't command premium price.
On negative reviews, that wouldn't matter if you have a compelling product eg Tesla.
Could it be that the lack of sales of the Atto3 in UK is partly due to it’s tasteless interior 😏
Your right about BYD being too expensive. However there's also the issue regen braking on the ATTO3 and also I understand on the Dolphin. It's just far too weak and not set up how Europeans like to drive with one pedal driving. I test drove an ATTO 3 at Fully Charge Live South UK in April and my view on the regen braking was it was pants. Also test drove an ORA CAT and that had very buggy software and was way too expensive for what you get. So if they want to succeed over here they need the cars refining and they need to be seen as a budget brand. MG have got the strategy just right in my view.
I test drove a atto 3 and really liked it except the braking was awful.
The regen was very weak and didn't have one pedal driving.
Hopefully they'll do more to get the pricing right..they have to offer more value for a good bit less. Then I suspect that you'll see lots of advertising ramping up e.g Sponsoring Premiership Football teams etc. In ireland for example they're not really available as yet. Also, we watch UK TV here and there are no ads and therefore zero awareness of what a BYD is. It'll happen but they've alot more to do
BYD is actually operating in Ireland - 3 dealers, 2 in Dublin & 1 in Cork. I think their price point is too high though.
@@drxym seems early doors for them when you compare to MG who have ads, dealerships and you're starting to see a good few of them. It's funny tho that there doesn't seem to be as yet a concerted effort to push BYD. I just want it to start cos it'll spur everything else on
Nothing like cars on the road to promote the company. How much advertising has Tesla done?
@@drxym Seems to be a common theme.
Wasting money on Sponsoring Premiership Football teams would turn a lot of people off. Victories in motorsport would be far more convincing, Back when Skoda was a joke brand nobody could deny that their cars kept winning prizes in rallying.
Maybe they saw your BYD video of a person who had a accident in his brand new BYD that was considered totaled by his insurance so he thought he would tear it down to use as spare parts and found all these rust spots at joint areas of the car. I'm surprised that didn't cause a big cause of concern for BYD cars but maybe this is how it's showing up. BYD was my next choice of a good EV option, now i don't trust anyone to put out a better product or comparable to Tesla.
Wouldn't look twice at a BYD. Priced as if an established brand, over double their Chinese price. We are not fools, lads. For a few dollars more, you get a be, Tesla, etc.
Tesla has a very bad reputation on the quality, lots of people died the braking problem.
@@nankochen5977 Links to factual statistics on that?
Pretty sure Bjorn Nyland would mention the fact, if it was a fact, since he is one of the best testers of EVs around here. Extremely thorough in every detail. Several of the EV car manufacturers let him test cars since he finds the problems quickly.
Haven't heard anything regarding deaths in northern Europe involving EVs (there has been the odd "a car on fire" but so far most of them ICE cars, with the odd HEV) especially not with braking problems, and there are a lot of Teslas rolling in Norway so "lots of people died" would make headlines quickly.
(not to mention the fact that software upgrades improve the Teslas (not sure how other EV automakers handle software updates - I know for Volvo we need to go to the nearest repair shop), so an initial problem in one model might not be there a month later - I know ghost breaking happened sometimes a few years ago, very rarely now).
@@nankochen5977 I'm am confused about you claim of a Tesla breaking problem leading to many deaths. Death is usually reported in newspapers, so have you any sources? As for quality, i lár well inspected a car shipped from the Shanghai factory and could find no faults in the bodywork or interior.
@@connclissmann6514 Do you know Chinese govts has forced Tesla re-calling 1.8 millions of cars for the braking problem ? It caused lots of death in China, lots of vedios on the SNS showing the problem.
I have seen the data showing the massive traffic accidents in the North America caused by Tesla is times of other auto-makers combined.
Sam, you are wrong.
The reason why BYD is priced high is because of transportation capacity and production capacity.The current BYD shipping capacity is only for 10,000-15,000 cars per month, and the supply is nearby, so you can see that the closer to China, the lower the price, such as Thailand, Malaysia, and Australia.
However, BYD has placed an order for 7 LNG carriers, and will deliver 3 ships in July-August, which will provide a monthly transportation capacity of 30,000 to 40,000.
At this stage, BYD does not expect to sell many cars in Europe, because the transportation capacity can only meet the needs of a few nearby countries. I think it is reasonable to set a high price at present, to build a brand image and offset the high transportation costs and tariffs in Europe. Once the transportation capacity and production capacity increase, BYD will seek a new pricing strategy in Europe, and then the competition will begin.
You can see that most of BYD's export orders in the past six months have remained between 10,000 and 15,000, and orders from some countries have even been scheduled until February and March next year, which is entirely caused by transportation capacity.
Dear Sam, here in Europe we are more and more getting away from buying Chinese due to human rights and politics issues, that we saw before COVID (Uyghurs) and during COVID (extreme and really hurting) lockdowns. It made us reconsider everything Chinese. Not convicting Vladimir did the rest, at least in Holland.
As someone that has sold cars in the UK I can tell you that the small/mid-size crossover market is insanely competitive. Atto 3 is a perfectly decent car. I test drove one at Fully Charged North. But it’s priced at parity with competitors, and a new marque needs a hook. BYD hasn’t got one compared to the established likes of SEAT and SKODA. So they have to go cheaper and they haven’t.
That being said, the Dolphin is the one to watch as it’s going to be the cheapest mid sized EV in the UK by a margin (Unless MG drop the price of the 4 by a lot).
They may have shot their bolt bit early as well with the Seagull. There’s a lot of people wanting a city EV with 200+mile range and they may be holding off committing to BYD until they know when/if the Seagull will arrive in Europe.
Hey Sam, can you tell us a little bit about the future market for EVs in South America? Especially for Brazil. We have virtually no EV cars around. Thanks for the great show!
Problem for all Caribbean and Latin America. They believe we're not ready. They're wrong.
Very poor EV infrastructure in those countries.
And All *"Big Oil"* has to do is grease the plams of those very corrupt leaders.
Yeah, there is a huge potential market in South & Central America. It would be interesting to know what the Chinese car companies' strategies are for here.
BYD sold 400 cars in Brazil in May
@@ciybersal9833 I want BYD for Saint Lucia.
They are very expensive for a new brand. I think the biggest problem is that there is no data on future value and most cars in Europe and the UK are either leased or bought on pcp contracts and they are overpricing the finance deals.
Agree. Tell them they are dreaming. I’m sure lack of available units partly allows them to price at the high end. As production ramps the price will drop. Keep in mind China just took the trophy as the biggest car exporter in the world.
1) in Germany, BYD are distributed through dealers, exactly those many people want to avoid, and even dealers which are well known for too high prices (Mercedes dealers, for instance)
2) on-line sales are not possible, you will be diverted to dealers (which is utterly stupid)
3) in Germany, BYD is just too expensive, even much too expensive
4) there is no model from BYD which is really needed in the market such as MG4 (Golf Class) and MG5 (Station Wagon)
They need to price more aggressively, even though i know they dont want to come off as a "budget" brand. The Atto 3 in NZ is far cheaper than the Euro version.
BYD and all the new Chinese brands have got their approach totally wrong in Europe. They have all come in with prices that are far too high for cars from brands no-one in Europe knows. The Atto 3 is £15,700 equivalent in China, but they are asking £36k in the UK. If they started it at £29k it would be a serious value proposition and I am certain they would be selling them in large numbers. The Ora Funky Cat is just £12k in China, in the UK they want £32k and no-one buys them, it should be priced from £24k
The exception is MG, which we know is a Chinese manufacturer, but the brand is British and consumers don't think of it as novel. Not only that, but they have priced the MG4 competitively and they are selling well. I drove a short local journey yesterday and saw two MG4s on the way. I never see BYD or GWM cars
When the Japanese manufacturers came to Europe, they were absolutely a value proposition - we give you more for your money. This allowed them to gain a foothold and build a customer base. Over decades they moved up the price and quality chain and are mainstream now. The Korean manufacturers made the same journey in more recent decades. The Chinese seem to think they can just jump in at the top of the price bracket and make sales, it is a losing strategy
Byd selling well in Thailand cause the price. It's the same price as honda HRV, Toyota collora cross, mazda cx-30 and half the price of Tesla Model Y. 😅 if there price going up close to Tesla people will go for tesla without a doubt
In Thailand the cost of shipping BYD across the border is minimal compared to shipping thousands of km to Europe.
That means dealers are passing full shipping cost onto buyers.
Other reason is how many people can afford to buy even a petrol engined car for $40000 let alone an ev.
No, it is not !
Corolla Cross is 25 % more expensive, HR-V hybrid is 5 % more, Mazda the same,,,,why we compare non-BEV cars anyway ??
New discounted M 3 is 45 % more expensive, M Y is 60 % more
Base price of extended range Atto 3 is 32.000 EUR, standard is below 30 k EUR
BYD's ATTO 3 problem is the very slow charging speed and AC cooling is not strong enough for the Israeli summer. but still is doing very good in israel, sold 8500 units Q1
Great video. First nobody in europe hates china. We continue to deal with them like the rest of the world. Trust, not so much, but hate is a strong word. If they did like the other imports did and have huge warranties, then that would fix that trust issue a little.
BYD did come out with a Kia style 7 year warranty bumber to bumper in Australia initially, but the Aussie dealer, EV direct took a knife to that and carved it up - after people had put down a deposit to purchase. I own one and they are a good car. More than adequate performance, software is great, voice assisstant to perform most tasks etc etc etc. I love it.😶
BYD are expensive in UK and many think Chinese quality is rubbish and have not yet caught on to Chinese substantial improvements in this area.
I believe they should of bought a defunct British name like MG, then it disguises it CCCP origins. So like Triumph (cars not bikes) or Wolsey or riley, austin, jowett, hilman, Jenson. Just what i would do if i owned a car Chinese company trying to crack Europe. Not a prime example but Ssangyong rexton (S korean i know) Would be more palatable as Wolsey Adventure or Jenson X47 or something
Or do what Geely did and buy up brands - Volvo, Smart, Lotus. People won't even cop-on.
The Soviet union is not trying to sell cars in Europe.
@@ensteffo Err, why say that? Russia cannot even make cars now a days. Recently they showed off a new Moskavitch that is actually a rebranded Chinese car. Of course The Soviet Union has not even existed for a long time.
CCP for Chinese Communist Party.......CCCP = former Soviet Union
Starting price of Atto3 in the Netherlands: 43k - 3k government bonus = 40k EUR. Starting price in Belgium: almost 45k and no government bonus. Starting price in France: almost 44k EUR. Starting price of bigger, better and faster Tesla Y in Belgium: 48k and already from 45k EUR for demo vehicle with 10k km. Choice seems obvious IMO.
The average family in the UK don't have nearly £40k to spend on a new car let alone a brand they've never heard of. Most people also associate Chinese brands with being much cheaper so if they're competing with the likes of Tesla at similar prices then they haven't done their market research very well.
Many people who end up with £40k cars rarely buy them, they lease them or acquire then via PCP agreements. You have no depreciation concerns with these options....because the residual value of the car after the agreement ends is known at the start, assuming you meet the criteria set by the contract once it ends.... And damage or unreasonable wear will cost you dearly.
@@Brian-om2hh But the company providing the PCP knows the residual value (or maybe doesn't in the case of a new brand). Sometimes it is actually cheaper to buy a more expensive car like a BMW if the residuals are better.
They don't advertise, they have no shops to even touch them.
It is just that nobody wants them because nobody knows they exist.
I think it is more because of China's product which is perceived as a low quality product and a apprehension about their motives of investment in any particular country . We see then as a sense of doubts as they are not an open ae
Also it’s one thing buying an electrical product like a TV etc made in China. It’s another to buy something that could kill you if it fails. They would need to give a 10 year unlimited warranty for me to consider one.
Not at all. I would buy a BYD if it was priced at parity, or maximum £1000/€1000 more than MGs. The mark up over MGs does not make any sense. That is why, even in Germany MG has now a 1.7% market share of new sales and BYD is 0.01% (in the UK MG has 4.3% share, but MG position in the UK is unique).
@@MoDa87 Or a five year old car car you can't drive legally because you can't get replace a light lens (which was what a Saab owner was complaining about on a forum).
Dealerships - or the lack of them (at least in the UK) is a big problem. I know where I can get an MG, Hyundai or a Tesla but wheres do I go to get a BYD? Can I trust them to support the car in the future?
Nah. I'll buy something that there is a showroom for.
Did Warren Buffet know something that other investors didn't when his company Berkshire Hathaway sold 1.96 million shares of BYD on May 2, 2023????????
Yes, that BYD is a CCP company, so it's a no for American investors.
I'm European. I would not buy a chinese car even if they let me have it for a bag of peanuts. Reason? Chinese electric cars have a history of spontaneous combustion of their batteries and the companies have systematically refused to accept any responsability. Additionally, who would want to buy a car from a country that is likely to repeat the russian stunt with Ukraine but with Taiwan. As soon as sanctions hit, any replacement part would become non available and I would be left with a piece of static rusting junk. No Thanks.
I know their name "build your dreams" is probably not helping lol. I hope they never catch on.
I know F**k BYD and every other Chinese Ev company, you are funding the CCP Putin backing govt
Borrow your dreams th First to copy Tesla
Agreed, a daft slogan emblazoned across the back end - "Hey neighbour, look at my cheap Chinese dream"!
@@roygardiner4002 🤡🤡🤡
I'm not a historical car expert, @The electric Viking you are spot on. As an example i believe Hyundai got slow sales in early days in e.g. Denmark, but after some years slowly began to ramp up sales due to consumer-trust, great warranty and great prices. Some of the Chinese car brands seems perhaps to attack the EU car market at a medium high price point.... could an alternative be to offer an entry level EV cars that more consumers can afford. That might be a way to establish the brand awareness of a new brand. When demands increases of the car-consumer, the cheap entry car might then be changed after a couple years to a even better car at a slightly higher price from the same vendor....perhaps a strategy that will work out. Alternatively if BYD could lower the prices with 30-40 % of the Atto 3, it will be a no brainer to win the market.....you don't need expensive overpriced management consultants to figure that one out....
Americans do not seem to share European fears concerning the totalitarian regime in China. Buying a Chinese badged car is a no go. My wife had to buy a Volvo after having a Jaguar on order for over a year. We were very reluctant to buy even a Belgium built car because of the Chinese ownership. The only way for BYD to make any inroads is to sell in the sub £18k bargain basement.
China is less totalitarian than the US or its European vassals.
Do we tell him lol
Yes Bevo we should. Jaguars has been sold to Ford previously, and is now owned by Indians Tata motors. And no, no one is going to sell their EVs which are leading edge to u at bargain basement prices. U can pay more for poorer quality ones from the EU. There are markets in other places in the world to be explored.
People will tend to stick to brands they know. In the 1970s a lecturer bought a Timex Digital watch telling us "Timex have made watches for decades so know what they are doing."
Saw the atto 3 at fully charged. Decent enough but it needs to be in the low to mid 30k price range. It's not a premium car no matter what byd think. Its gimmicky and the software is like first gen MG. MG will do fine as long as they keep refining. Byd and ora have been over hyped. The ora felt extremely cheap.
I think this is why BYD is looking into building a factory in Europe. They’ll save in shipping costs as well as being able to avoid the 10% tariff. Once their prices come down and they can also convince Europeans that they are also providing good jobs as well, they’ll be more likely to be embraced there.
Hands down, BYD is making amazing vehicles, that eventually they will be successful world wide. That said, by purchasing one of their vehicles is directly supporting the CCP, and I for one am not ready to do that.
Don't just stop at cars.
Yes. All large business are tainted by the CCP, unfortunately. Still I admire the Chinese CEOs who make it a go and deal with their interfering government as best they could. When the CCP brought Jack Ma to heel and stopped his amazing expansion of Alibaba.com, I realized no one could escape. It’s just a matter of time before CCP insiders take more control. It’s a noir version of ATLAS SHRUGGED but where John Gault never has power and moves to Canada to retire happily. Unlike Atlas Shrugged, the country seems to get along well enough to avoid becoming a failed state.
And what brand of TV, electrical appliance, phone, clothing etc do you own.
Living in the UK, I'd want to avoid the "unknown" Chinese brands for now, because being so new they are unlikely to have many established dealerships. Plus buying Chinese goods carries at least some stigma at the moment, which is likely to worsen if they launch an invasion on Taiwan....
"China poses biggest threat to global security". Not my words but the U.K. Prime Ministers.
What’s the last time China invaded ANY country? Media is running your life
i am glad people in europe not fueling Chinese economy in car department 😁 we have EU manufacturers to support like vovlvo ex30 is coming fantastic car on right price
Like Volvo that Chinese owned manufacturer?
Thanks to tariff.
Volvo EX30 will be made in China and imported to Europe...
Generally EU customers would rather buy something made in the EU or at least a major international brand that they trust from a country they view in a decent light.
From groceries to cars.
A chinese brand would be dead last in my options in Eastern Europe. Long supply chain for parts, very few mechanics know them, chinese quality is hit and miss, brand hasn't built trust and their government certainly is a major minus point in that equation for most europeans.
Would you really want to drive a car with Build your Dreams accross the back? They need to first build a brand identity whether it is price, technology or style/quality. The Atto 3 is just yet another dull and expensive EV SUV.
I concur although the car is actually very well specced and spacious - glass roof, 555L storage, 0-60 in 7.5s. But nobody has ever heard of the brand and its priced perilously close to cars from brands they have heard of. I think BYD would have better luck with its Seagull or Dolphin models assuming they were priced more aggressively. Lots of space to grow in the sub €25,000 end of the market and a lot people are screaming out for an affordable & not-shit EV for that price.
That was my thought, I would never want to drive around with a lame slogan on my car. In China it's exotic because they can't read it. It's like Westerners who get a Chinese character tattooed on their body, for all they know that character might mean that they have syphilis but fortunately for them nobody can read it.
Hi thanks for the video, I am from Germany and the BYD prices are too high, compared to MG models and also compared to the price in China. I don't understand why, but Sixt bought a lot of cars from BYD 👍
You bought a BYD and sold it within a week or two, so it must have been pure crap! Are you still driving the DIEsel BMW?
Yes. I think Geely is the only chinese car company who delivers decent product. Others are simply shit.
Wife's medical expenses probably.
The Atto 3 in Dominican Republic is being sold for USD$ 55,000.00. Crazy expensive and its not selling