Yo!! Thanks so much for stopping by guys! And a big thanks to @ElNintendoReviewer for letting me use footage from his review of Maiden of Black Water. Go check out his channel and let him know Jared sent ya.
Played through the game twice, and you're right about the.... shadow born, spiritual incest. I had to double check it myself since this was my first Fatal Frame (sadly) and was like "What.. did she!?" As for the endings, each character has a good and bad ending. For Yuri you must defeat the final boss while she's in human form during the final battle, for Miu, you have to catch up and take a picture of your mother Miku at Twilight Peek, as for Ren.... I got the bad ending. I chose Shiragiku, and let her do her thing. The two good endings are to either choose and then attack her with the camera, or the Best(?) ending is to choose Kurosawa then glance her.
Had to double check, the most risque costumes from the Japanese Wii U version were removed from all versions of the remaster. Yuri had black and lace lingerie, while Miu had a white string bikini with matching boots and scarf. (Not sure if this was mentioned, the US Release of the games have aged up all the characters to be of legal age. 18yrs old or older)
I never played a single fatal frame title, yet I watched every video of yours about it like it's my favorite series. What kinda power do you have over me old man
When i can get people who aren't even into the games to watch, that's the best feeling. Also, it's a bit of voodoo, with a side of sold my soul to the devil.
REAL. When I learned we would see her and her daughter in Fatal Frame 5 I thought it meant that she had finally moved on but got captured by ghosts again or something. To me, her grief plotline was dealt with in Fatal Frame 3!
The crazy guy that murders all the maidens wasn't there to die. His sister came and killed herself, and the man, in his grief, blamed the Shrine maidens. Ghost marriage in this game is a perverted form of the traditional ghost marriage. The actual ghost marriage was held in Japan when young men and women died before marriage. They are 'ghost married' like a funeral so they won't be alone in the after life. No one alive is normally involved
Regarding the criterias for the endings: Yuri: It depends on where you fatal glance Ose at the end. If you do a fatal glance while she's in her underwater form you'll get the "Embrace" ending which is basically Yuri's bad ending. In it she commits non-ad friendly with Ose by jumping off the cliff because Ose's final wish was to die with Yuri. You got the good ending for her because you glanced her in her above water form. Miu: It depends if you managed to photograph all of Miku's spirits at the end section. If you did, you get the good ending, if you didn't, you get the bad ending, which is Miku passing on into the afterlife with Mafuyu, leaving Miu. Ren: Ren's endings are pretty much the same (I think maybe?) it really just depends on if you want to have a resolution for Ose or Shiragiku. I hope you manage to understand my yapping, Yuri's criteria is pretty iffy because you'd never think about where to do the fatal glance on her.
Ren has at least 2 Shiragiku endings. One where you fight her and win, then a second one where you make Ren stand near her box during the fight, and she'll pull him into it with her.
@@rhast57 Ah, I have definitely missed that. His endings confused me, because I chose each option on my different playthroughs, and both seemed the same to me, except in one I got a scene with Shiragiku, and then with Ose, but Ren's overall outcome was the same.
Up the mountain down the mountain, up the mountain, down the mountain. Poor Miku. The writers forgot she was moving on after 3. Plus ghost inc-st baby? Miku now having a different kind of love for her brother? What were they thinking?
good vs bad is simply either ending the fight in the light, or ending the fight underwater, if you end it underwater, well thats clearly bad. Ren has 3 endings also, Miu has a good and bad ending as well. Granted its by far the happiest ending. Fatal Frame 3 also has a good ending where everyone survives
I want to thank Jared from Avalanche Reviews *TM for the notification that the ghostly rip was added in post. I was almost spooked by the spectral poot was Tecmo’s devious way of keeping the players attention.
Generally I'm a Maiden of Black Water defender, I think that despite some poor story choices and fan service that adds nothing, I think the game manages to find a heart in the end. I enjoyed it more than FF4, and it grows on me every time I play it.
You know who would've been a perfect person for the Ghost Marriage instead of Miku? Rei from FF3! She's related to Hisoka already and her longing for Yuu would be way better and then no Incest Ghost Baby Miu😒😒😒
Oh my god you're so right?? She already loved Yuu and despite getting closure she could've wanted to keep his trace in her memories for the rest of her life... Ft Miku Cameo
I don't really think so. The ending of FF3 is all about accepting that the dead are dead. She accepts it and tries to move on. They also would have had to explain Rei disappearing mysteriously and such, which doesn't make sense to me when I doubt Rei would try to desperately find Yuu after he's gone. Although the Miku plot point made no sense either since Miku accepted Mafuyu being dead in FF3. To me It feels like the devs didn't actually play the first 3 games at all and just watched a synopsis online or something like that.
Bro you forgot to mentioned an unlockable story. Where we play as Ayane from Ninja Gaiden. It's a short side mission where she goes and rescue a girl, and she uses her ninja magic to fight ghosts.
Don’t worry :) you were right about Miu :) they even made it not be “oh I just miss my brother so much and I want to see him” from Miku they include journals that imply she had more than brotherly love for him :) why :)
I played this game when it came out on Steam, weary because a lot of people said it was the worst Fatal Frame game in the series. I must have pissed a lot of people when it became my favorite almost instantly. Love the water curse mechanic, love the ghosts and their individual quirks and love the combat system. I remember being legit startled when a ghost punished me for using a lock-on feature. Those movie segments were also really creepy and I find whole water/drowning theme very effective. Can't wait to make time to watch this video properly.
@@AvalancheReviews Just to respond to the coomer bait criticism after watching the video - there is evidence that fear and arousal are connected, one being able to amplify the other, which is why fanservice works well in horror for some people. There were plenty of times, especially recently (TLoU2, BG3) where the game was vulgar with sex that was not sexy at all and it only made me uncomfortable or disgusted. MoBW was in my opinion just about right. I personally never caught myself being taken out of a moment just because of fanservice and the game did enough to justify itself with the whole water theme. It's not often that you get fanservice that has logical, thematical and mechanical connection to the events happening within the game. S+, would try out all costumes to see them in their cursed state again. And I agree. Ghost visions were always a treat when the game gave you a chance to get them. Very intense too.
Gonna be honest, I was kinda dissapointed by FF5 Not only were some of the story parts really weird, I also had the feeling of just doing the same thing over and over: Go to mountain, rescue someone, bring them back to the shop, watch the place FNAF-sytle, then someone dissappears, go back to mountain and repeat..... I did not enjoy the gameplay. I found some of the encounters to be incredibly frustrating. Did not like the mission based structure either. And I absolutely hated the "water mechanic". To me it was pointless and I would have been totally fine without it. I certainly prefer 2 and 4 over this one.
I agree. She didn't need to be in this game, going through the same thing, but I feel like her getting over it was handled better here. I wish this sort of closure would have been given at the end of part 3.
If they realllyy needed to bring back a protagonist to do the ghost marriage, then they should've brought Rei. It would've fit narratively. She still missed her fiance and was willing to be with his spirit. But nope, let's bring back FF1 protag for the wincest route 🤨😒
I agree. While I don't care about the Miku stuff either way, Rei would have been a much better 3rd protagonist. Miu's drops were so pointless either way. They could have cut it completely, but I guess we now have to have 3 protagonists 😅
Maiden of Black Water was the worst Fatal Frame game for me. The more I played it the more I couldn't wait to be done with it. Towards the end I hated every ghost encounter and the game dragged, this game was way too long for sure. Don't think I'll ever play it again. Only played the remaster as well so maybe if I ever get a change to play the Wii U version I'll give it a try.
It’s upsetting for me because I love so many of the ideas here but it just feels so meh in the end. I think a major aspect for me is it doesn’t have the atmosphere of its predecessors. I still to this day feel creeped out playing the previous titles but this one almost feels annoying at parts and rarely scary. It was also too easy for me. I had one spot that took me multiple attempts, the part where you have to run around Ose on the shoreline. All of the fights I aced first try:
I’m surprised you didn’t talk about the extra story content involving Ayane in the epilogue: the first, Second, and Third Threads. It is part of the FFMoBW experience. So why didn’t you even talk or mention it? Also would you do the “Spirit Camera” game for 3DS? as it is technically a Fatal Frame Game.
Thanks for the review Jared. It was a really cool ride seeing all the Fatal Frame games with your own thoughts and been super laid back and chill was refreshing. Thanks man you're rock!
Avalanche have you ever played 'Clive Barker's Undying'? It was an action horror FPS game from when EA backed studios and interesting IPs. Well worth a playthrough (part Silent Hill body horror but with boomer shooter gameplay), it being a PC exclusive from the 2000s, it's kind of a forgotten gem.
I found some improvements with this one, mostly the ghosts and environments. Pretty much everything else was a disappointment. To me, the worst thing about it was how easy it was, bordering on effortless. The plot point you mentioned at 13:22 was also a head shaker. FF5 is easily the weakest of them all, and I'd only recommend it to die-hard fans.
yuri's good ending if you defeated the last boss above water and bad ending if you defeated her underwater. miku wont disappear if u took a photo of her in the beach, she will disappear if u didnt took a photo. the guy (forgot his name) depends on your choices
I initially didn't like FF5 at all. But upon getting my hands on it, (and not playing on the hardest difficulty) it's actually a lot of fun. It's not really 'scary' and the story's.. the story but the gameplay is pretty good- best in the series I think.
The biggest thing that sucks for me about the Miku-Mafuyu thing is that according to the creator himself, they were originally going to have Miku pining for Kei instead. They had planned to have them married and her give birth to Miu before Kei died, and so Miku would go in search of a way to be with Kei again. But then they decided it would be more 'edgy' to put in incest instead, and so that's what we got. I was so bummed when I found this out....
This game was so frustrating to play, considering just how MANY times you have to walk back and forth across the same areas, not to mention the frequent defense missions. Ugh.
The proper way to do fan service costumes is to wait until a replay to enable them. I mean you wouldn't play SH3 while wearing Heather's Sexy Beam outfit on your first time through, would you?
My take is that the end of level screens only exist because RE4 is a thing - and the devs lacked the wherewithal to understand that the difference in tone made them inappropriate for their game. (I don't think they were all that well suited to RE4 either tbh) Japanese devs are always doing dumb shit like this - like when RE Revelations copied Alan Wake's TV episode format. It doesn't really spoil the game for me, but it is intrusive.
I'm sure you have very good points to make during this video, but this is my second favorite entry in the series, so i think I'm just gonna let this video play while falling asleep. get that ad revenue man o7
Unfortunately, you have not got the plot wrong. Mafuyu, Miku's brother is the father of Miu. They never "get busy" but still werid. Originally, Kei from the 3rd game was supposed to be Miku's ghost partner however due to the premise was dropped as there were stop story holes having miku seeking out Kei, they switched to Mafuyu and cements the good ending that Miu is the grounding force for Miku. If you look at Miu's appearance, she does have a combination of Kei and Miku's appearance.
Sad to see this retrospective come to an end but! If you ever want to have the Wii U not Wii U experience, using a Nintendo switch handheld with gyro gives almost a better experience !
What is the state of this franchise? When this game released, Nintendo has exclusive publishing rights. Some even said Nintendo owned the IP. But now I see every Fatal Frame game being released everywhere, including Playstation. Is Nintendo not involved anymore? Or is this the one time when they are letting something of theirs go multiplat?
Nintendo never owned the IP for Fatal Frame, they simply struck a deal with KT to assist and publish Fatal Frame titles. I assume the failure of the Wii U pushed KT away from allowing Nintendo to publish Fatal Frame titles exclusively as much of Koei Tecmo's titles have gone multiplatform.
@@ejlennon2353 okay. That makes sense. There was a lot of misinformation. I read articles that claimed Nintendo fully owned Fatal Frame as a result of that deal.
Gameplay is still fun but this Ghost marriage thing and bringing back Miku for something this braindead feels desperate. It's also disappointing that there seems to be a big lean to sexy waifus instead of actual horror/dread. They don't mix too well.
Nice video! This is my favorite horror series and I love 5 to death, 4 being my favorite entry (on the Wii, I don't like how the remaster looks funnily enough). But I understand all the negative points you mentioned and I even share most of them, I just enjoy the game so damn much, what can I say 😆. Hope they continue it someday and I would love to see a mixup of the old PS2 titles with the combat of 5. Overall great retrospective, It's cool to see someone who likes aspects of the games and also gives fair critizism to one of my favorite franchises, even this video being a little negative, but you are so polite I can't even get mad about it haha. Keep up the good work 😁
Jared saying “Goonery” made my day lmao. Also I wonder if the next game (if they make one in 2025) will use Drones or Go-Pro tech as way to spice up combat other than the Camera Obscura. Great video man!! Also the mention of “Five Nights at Freddy’s” made me want a retrospective from you lmao.
i hated that the camera is set so close that character takes up 1/3 of screen, and how game likes to put player in combat scenarios in very small rooms and narrow corridors that makes ghosts floating inside walls and waste my time. Despite that, being completionist, i suffered through and got all the endings.
I just want to explain why the level ccomplete screens exists. The game was originally released over 10 weeks. So each level complete was an individual chapter.
Personnally, i had a blast playing it on the wiiu at launch, as a long time fan of the series. Pretty good visuals for the system, great atmosphere. Just dragged on for a little too long but overall, great experience.
A great review as always, having a balance of interesting points and humour. Injecting fun and personality into videos makes them so enjoyable( despite some the dark subject matter) I haven't got right to the end as I put my comment so sorry if you go over this later. I agree with a lot of what you've said about character design. Having an attractive character design is enjoyable but it's not necessary to over-sexualise these characters when it's not part of the gameplay/story. Games with uncomfortably young-looking characters in games like these or Japanese anime can be a bit weird sometimes. I liked Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn because she wasn't over-sexualised and more importantly there wasn't an option to romance. That was 'her' choice and not the players. In the inverse to that, with each new Mass Effect title, there is an obsession to make every character Bisexual and now have to describe them as pansexual. Attractiveness and sexualised don't have to be the same thing, it's nice to have these points being made in a more relaxed way.
Great job with this retrospective! But why suffer the English voiceovers with these games, that kind of subtracts a point off the whole experience. But I was surprised that you liked 5 more than I thought you would. Also, I first got it on the WiiU and yes, it plays great and it's pretty impressive... What about a Siren retrospective next?
I could have used the Japanese voice over, but I kind of feel like I'd be commenting on something most people wouldn't have experienced. I don't really have any plans for a Siren video at the moment. Right now there are so many new survival horror games, i don't have time for the old ones. That's a very weird situation to be in. HA!
Honestly, at the time with the Wii U controller it was my first experience with anything that seemed "augmented reality". I enjoyed it for a once through, though how to beat the final boss was really odd and non-intuitive. The mountain was very repetitive. However, it was fun.
The way you describe the state of gaming makes me think that's what happened to yakuza what once was a small niche experience blew up with one of its best entries being yakuza 0 the best prequel I've ever played. but 7 onwards just got worse and worse with infinite wealth making me decided that besides remakes i think I'm done with the series. ps keep up the good work!
Thanks man! Honestly, I think the industry can't continue like this. Games will keep getting more bland and focus tested, and people will buy them less. I genuinely think another crash is coming.
@@AvalancheReviews I feel that I'd call infinite wealth bland sure it's got all this post game junk a Pokémon style side game and a animal crossing style game but. Spoilers the plot is absolutely terrible especially comparing the two protagonists side by side it's a 40 hour plus campaign but half of it I can't stand. And even the good parts are bogged down with the super grindy combat which I just don't understand. The judgement series perfected the dragon engine combat and then 7 and 8 are both very grind 15 hours to progress turn based combat. Sorry for the rant but yakuza 0-6 shaped me into a different person it took almost all of kiwami 1 and swapping to 0 for it to click but it became the first series that I might put above resident evil. But gaiden 7 and infinite wealth all have extreme problems not saying that the games before were perfect except yakuza 0 and 2, kiwami 2
@@AvalancheReviewslook at ubisoft they are practically finished right now. A crash can only be a good thing right now it’s too bloated and the talent is spread too thin
Project Zero: Maiden of Black Water is what you get when you ask the people who make Dead or Alive to do a survival horror game. This might look like I'm making a joke about the amount of fanservice, but I'm deadly serious.
Everything was ruined by ghost incest, destroying their first protagonist, and heavy focus on fetish. Halfway thorough we see Miu's flashback idol photoshoots. Towards the end we see her and her mom (same age looking) Miku sleeping in bed facing each other in a very yuri-coded way. I thought the tecmo koei merge or being bought by Nintendo was what ruined them, but it could very well be the original creators ruining it themselves.
No , the game were first released as JP only , when they first teased for English localization the title for that time were Fatal Frame : Oracle of the sodden raven , then later changed to Maiden of the black water
Fatal frame. A series describing how hell various unsavory environmental apsects need to be kept supressed away in order not for them to flood out and override the world of the living. Common themes involve folklores and pain of loss of loved ones as well as failed rituals and lots of murders. Thats a start. Each installment of the game also have a large group of people acting as guardians of earth settling near to each hell hole and using horrific rituals on sacrificial humans to seal the gates. The logic being if a sacrificed human can take on the pain of the ritual itself this strength will be enough to keep hell away for a while. Eventually in each installment someone will bound to screw up and the ritual will fail and it is up to each installment protagonists to laid the spirits to rest and their salvation and deliverance will be another source of strength as well as a second chance to properly seal and send the darkness of hell away.
@@AvalancheReviews I’m with you though dude the Wii U was a fucking disaster. But I have a thing for failed consoles. They take wild risks and have these hidden gems.
I've only played the first 3 games, but I'm well aware of the disgusting character assassination of Miku they did in 5. I sincerely hope if we get another sequel, it will undo the butchery that game did to her and retcon the incest plot. I still plan on playing through 5 eventually but my disdain for that story is going to really be an issue with me finishing it. All I can say is that gameplay better blow me away because the story is already cooked for me.
I don't remember having access to costumes on my first playthrough on the WiiU version, I think they made them available with the Remaster, I think they added a load also. I could be wrong, but I don't remember them. Thats seems like a remaster-y thing to do and not a wise choice. I agree that FF5 is a good game, some very good elements, but also some of the traditional aspects and direction are a bit lacking. One of the small changes I appreciate though is that a lot of ghosts in this are not introduced with a cutscene. I don't really scare at all, regardless of the game, and definitely not when something is shown to me in a 10 second cutscene where you can see the "horror" in complete detail, where you have no control and are totally safe. However, I have vivid memories of some ghosts in FF5 just appearing suddenly, from the sky or through a window, out of nowhere, which is way more effective than a cutscene as you can't see it clearly, you have no idea what exactly it is or what it does, and there is the real danger of damage or death in that moment. SH3 does this well, the intro sequence has you walking through a gate and then suddenly 2 enemy types never seen before (As the game has literally just started) are in there with you. It's dark, you can't see them well or in detail, you don't really know what exactly they are, if you can deal with them or how and you then have to find your way out and they are after you. This goes forward into the Mall as well, being attacked by some kind of flying thing, but there are so many other enemies after me too combined with the lack of visibility and lack of resources stop and try to deal with them all on Hard mode, I have no idea wtf it is exactly, I'm just getting out of there and trying not to take damage. I think this is also why the SH1 first enemy encounter in the otherworld transition is so effective, and the SH2 first enemy encounter is not. One is fully visible in a 15+ second cutscene and the other is you in full control whilst literally unknown horrors descend on you. You couldn't do this all the time, some bosses for instance may suffer without proper build up, however I think that in terms of horror this philosophy in how enemies first appear is the most impactful, some real "oh shit... wtf is that, whats going on" moments that you then have to brave or run away from and you have to figure out what exactly your facing through that process.
This along with Spirit Camera on NDS are the only FF I haven't touched directly. When I saw that it was a WiiU exclusive I knew I had to skip on this because I don't own the console and just watch playthroughs of it (and luckily, I came across a channel that translates JP releases at the time). Horror-wise, it definitely fell from its predecessors aside from a couple of enemy design and moments such as the tall lady which is based on real-life urban legend. One noticeable thing is that the team that worked on it definitely left their "trademark" (Team Ninja, the one behind DoA fighting game) with the fanservicey stuff, although the wet clothing stuff is kinda smart since it's rooted in the game's mechanic + lore. Kinda sad that while FF4 tend to make the players explore different locations (especially when you compare the places you explore with Choushiro vs the girls), FF5 went back to FF3's style.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Yo!! Thanks so much for stopping by guys! And a big thanks to @ElNintendoReviewer for letting me use footage from his review of Maiden of Black Water. Go check out his channel and let him know Jared sent ya.
Played through the game twice, and you're right about the.... shadow born, spiritual incest. I had to double check it myself since this was my first Fatal Frame (sadly) and was like "What.. did she!?"
As for the endings, each character has a good and bad ending. For Yuri you must defeat the final boss while she's in human form during the final battle, for Miu, you have to catch up and take a picture of your mother Miku at Twilight Peek, as for Ren.... I got the bad ending.
I chose Shiragiku, and let her do her thing. The two good endings are to either choose and then attack her with the camera, or the Best(?) ending is to choose Kurosawa then glance her.
(Also sorry if I comment so much. I love your videos and interacting with another Survival Horror lover.
Had to double check, the most risque costumes from the Japanese Wii U version were removed from all versions of the remaster.
Yuri had black and lace lingerie, while Miu had a white string bikini with matching boots and scarf.
(Not sure if this was mentioned, the US Release of the games have aged up all the characters to be of legal age. 18yrs old or older)
If a fatal frame 1,2,3 would be getting a remake, which one would you want the most ? (Assuming it's done right)
I was gonna say In the thumbnail the spirit the protagonists were attacking looked like koji from fatal frame 1!
Ah yes, the fatal frame that’s also a Jerry Springer episode “My dad is my uncle”
Your sister is your mother
Your father is your brother
You all fxck one another
The kiddy family
"I love my niece/daughter"
Stay classy, Japan.
Worse, he is a ghost dad, and we were born after he gone ghost.
Grunkle Stan
I never played a single fatal frame title, yet I watched every video of yours about it like it's my favorite series. What kinda power do you have over me old man
When i can get people who aren't even into the games to watch, that's the best feeling. Also, it's a bit of voodoo, with a side of sold my soul to the devil.
I did play the 1 and 2. I find myself watching retrospectives to games that I haven't play as often as for the ones I have.
They did my girl Miku so dirty man. She deserved to be happily ever after with Rei and their cat.
Fatal frame seriously needs a reboot
@@vagelismihalis7426 No it doesn't. It just needs this plotline officially undone. Everything else is perfect and should stay.
REAL. When I learned we would see her and her daughter in Fatal Frame 5 I thought it meant that she had finally moved on but got captured by ghosts again or something. To me, her grief plotline was dealt with in Fatal Frame 3!
The crazy guy that murders all the maidens wasn't there to die. His sister came and killed herself, and the man, in his grief, blamed the Shrine maidens.
Ghost marriage in this game is a perverted form of the traditional ghost marriage. The actual ghost marriage was held in Japan when young men and women died before marriage. They are 'ghost married' like a funeral so they won't be alone in the after life. No one alive is normally involved
one thing you missed about being soaked, yeah you get more encounters, but you also do more damge, so just be soaked
I didn't even know that! No wonder the combat seemed easier to me. HA!
Ah the good ole wetness mechanics back at it again 😂
Regarding the criterias for the endings:
Yuri: It depends on where you fatal glance Ose at the end. If you do a fatal glance while she's in her underwater form you'll get the "Embrace" ending which is basically Yuri's bad ending. In it she commits non-ad friendly with Ose by jumping off the cliff because Ose's final wish was to die with Yuri. You got the good ending for her because you glanced her in her above water form.
Miu: It depends if you managed to photograph all of Miku's spirits at the end section. If you did, you get the good ending, if you didn't, you get the bad ending, which is Miku passing on into the afterlife with Mafuyu, leaving Miu.
Ren: Ren's endings are pretty much the same (I think maybe?) it really just depends on if you want to have a resolution for Ose or Shiragiku.
I hope you manage to understand my yapping, Yuri's criteria is pretty iffy because you'd never think about where to do the fatal glance on her.
That's wild. I mean, Yuri's is effectively random at that point. Glad, I lucked into everyone's good ending on a first try.
Face palm myself, Yuri under_ _ _ _ _ this game has 🧠rotted me. 😅
Ren has at least 2 Shiragiku endings. One where you fight her and win, then a second one where you make Ren stand near her box during the fight, and she'll pull him into it with her.
@@rhast57 Ah, I have definitely missed that. His endings confused me, because I chose each option on my different playthroughs, and both seemed the same to me, except in one I got a scene with Shiragiku, and then with Ose, but Ren's overall outcome was the same.
Like getting married to her dead brother wasn't bad enough but they really had Miku go to the Great Cigarette Store in the Sky?! Jesus wept.
Up the mountain down the mountain, up the mountain, down the mountain. Poor Miku. The writers forgot she was moving on after 3. Plus ghost inc-st baby? Miku now having a different kind of love for her brother? What were they thinking?
Hahahaha I just made a comment about this and then read your comment. Tedious game
@@Budd631 Oh yeah definitely
good vs bad is simply either ending the fight in the light, or ending the fight underwater, if you end it underwater, well thats clearly bad. Ren has 3 endings also, Miu has a good and bad ending as well. Granted its by far the happiest ending. Fatal Frame 3 also has a good ending where everyone survives
Well everyone but Kei
"Butt Cheeks are rad as hell" - Jared 2024
I really want a remaster for the first three
I would love to see that!
You didn't get the detail wrong she's an uncle daddy baby!
I wish I did.................
the what now?
Wait what?? I have a feeling the story for this one is wild then haha
I want to thank Jared from Avalanche Reviews *TM for the notification that the ghostly rip was added in post. I was almost spooked by the spectral poot was Tecmo’s devious way of keeping the players attention.
See that was exactly the misunderstanding I was trying to avoid. HA!
Generally I'm a Maiden of Black Water defender, I think that despite some poor story choices and fan service that adds nothing, I think the game manages to find a heart in the end. I enjoyed it more than FF4, and it grows on me every time I play it.
Same! It did a lot of things badly, but the story overall was very good.
i dont know, i kinda like the little fan service they did :)
You know who would've been a perfect person for the Ghost Marriage instead of Miku? Rei from FF3! She's related to Hisoka already and her longing for Yuu would be way better and then no Incest Ghost Baby Miu😒😒😒
Huge missed opportunity there. I didn't even think of that!!
Oh my god you're so right?? She already loved Yuu and despite getting closure she could've wanted to keep his trace in her memories for the rest of her life... Ft Miku Cameo
I don't really think so. The ending of FF3 is all about accepting that the dead are dead. She accepts it and tries to move on. They also would have had to explain Rei disappearing mysteriously and such, which doesn't make sense to me when I doubt Rei would try to desperately find Yuu after he's gone.
Although the Miku plot point made no sense either since Miku accepted Mafuyu being dead in FF3. To me It feels like the devs didn't actually play the first 3 games at all and just watched a synopsis online or something like that.
I think one of the devs previously worked on a more infamously ‘sexy’ series
I don't know if that's true, but i believe it with zero proof.
@@AvalancheReviews I think it was team ninja that helped out on the development
@@AvalancheReviews Ayane from DOA has a special chapter in this game. I think it unlocks after you beat it.
Just say Dead or Alive.
Bro you forgot to mentioned an unlockable story. Where we play as Ayane from Ninja Gaiden. It's a short side mission where she goes and rescue a girl, and she uses her ninja magic to fight ghosts.
Don’t worry :) you were right about Miu :) they even made it not be “oh I just miss my brother so much and I want to see him” from Miku they include journals that imply she had more than brotherly love for him :) why :)
Sure would be nice if I was wrong......
I hope it goes back to survival horror themed games I thought Maiden of Black Water was alright.
One thing I appreciate is that all of the characters put on their best shiny plastic wigs for this one.
I played this game when it came out on Steam, weary because a lot of people said it was the worst Fatal Frame game in the series. I must have pissed a lot of people when it became my favorite almost instantly. Love the water curse mechanic, love the ghosts and their individual quirks and love the combat system. I remember being legit startled when a ghost punished me for using a lock-on feature. Those movie segments were also really creepy and I find whole water/drowning theme very effective. Can't wait to make time to watch this video properly.
I really enjoyed being able to see each ghost's origin story when you touch them. That seems like a very Fatal Frame kind of mechanic.
@@AvalancheReviews Just to respond to the coomer bait criticism after watching the video - there is evidence that fear and arousal are connected, one being able to amplify the other, which is why fanservice works well in horror for some people. There were plenty of times, especially recently (TLoU2, BG3) where the game was vulgar with sex that was not sexy at all and it only made me uncomfortable or disgusted. MoBW was in my opinion just about right. I personally never caught myself being taken out of a moment just because of fanservice and the game did enough to justify itself with the whole water theme. It's not often that you get fanservice that has logical, thematical and mechanical connection to the events happening within the game. S+, would try out all costumes to see them in their cursed state again.
And I agree. Ghost visions were always a treat when the game gave you a chance to get them. Very intense too.
this was the only ff i finished and i was too busy watching at booba jiggle to be scared lmao
I’m surprised we never got a ringu/grudge X fatal frame game or promotion.
That does seem like a pretty obviously cool idea
Gonna be honest, I was kinda dissapointed by FF5
Not only were some of the story parts really weird, I also had the feeling of just doing the same thing over and over:
Go to mountain, rescue someone, bring them back to the shop, watch the place FNAF-sytle, then someone dissappears, go back to mountain and repeat.....
I did not enjoy the gameplay. I found some of the encounters to be incredibly frustrating. Did not like the mission based structure either.
And I absolutely hated the "water mechanic". To me it was pointless and I would have been totally fine without it.
I certainly prefer 2 and 4 over this one.
For Miku, I felt like she had come to terms with everything in the third game. At least, it seemed like she had.
I agree. She didn't need to be in this game, going through the same thing, but I feel like her getting over it was handled better here. I wish this sort of closure would have been given at the end of part 3.
Fun Fact: FNAF 1 was released one month prior to FF5 Japan.
If they realllyy needed to bring back a protagonist to do the ghost marriage, then they should've brought Rei. It would've fit narratively. She still missed her fiance and was willing to be with his spirit. But nope, let's bring back FF1 protag for the wincest route 🤨😒
That would have been a great idea!
I agree. While I don't care about the Miku stuff either way, Rei would have been a much better 3rd protagonist.
Miu's drops were so pointless either way. They could have cut it completely, but I guess we now have to have 3 protagonists 😅
Great idea. I never thought of that, and now I dislike this game even more for not doing it.
Long live healthy fan-service and this retrospective.
Maiden of Black Water was the worst Fatal Frame game for me. The more I played it the more I couldn't wait to be done with it. Towards the end I hated every ghost encounter and the game dragged, this game was way too long for sure. Don't think I'll ever play it again. Only played the remaster as well so maybe if I ever get a change to play the Wii U version I'll give it a try.
If I wasn't making this video, I probably wouldn't have finished it either to be fair.
Agreed, it’s such a dull game & missing the truly dark and oppressive atmosphere of the other games
I think the worst is spirit camera on 3ds
It’s upsetting for me because I love so many of the ideas here but it just feels so meh in the end. I think a major aspect for me is it doesn’t have the atmosphere of its predecessors. I still to this day feel creeped out playing the previous titles but this one almost feels annoying at parts and rarely scary. It was also too easy for me. I had one spot that took me multiple attempts, the part where you have to run around Ose on the shoreline. All of the fights I aced first try:
I’m surprised you didn’t talk about the extra story content involving Ayane in the epilogue: the first, Second, and Third Threads. It is part of the FFMoBW experience. So why didn’t you even talk or mention it? Also would you do the “Spirit Camera” game for 3DS? as it is technically a Fatal Frame Game.
Thanks for the review Jared. It was a really cool ride seeing all the Fatal Frame games with your own thoughts and been super laid back and chill was refreshing. Thanks man you're rock!
Avalanche have you ever played 'Clive Barker's Undying'?
It was an action horror FPS game from when EA backed studios and interesting IPs.
Well worth a playthrough (part Silent Hill body horror but with boomer shooter gameplay), it being a PC exclusive from the 2000s, it's kind of a forgotten gem.
I found some improvements with this one, mostly the ghosts and environments. Pretty much everything else was a disappointment. To me, the worst thing about it was how easy it was, bordering on effortless. The plot point you mentioned at 13:22 was also a head shaker.
FF5 is easily the weakest of them all, and I'd only recommend it to die-hard fans.
Dude! Once again you delivered! Amazing Retrospective series yet again!
Well thanks so much!
yuri's good ending if you defeated the last boss above water and bad ending if you defeated her underwater. miku wont disappear if u took a photo of her in the beach, she will disappear if u didnt took a photo. the guy (forgot his name) depends on your choices
I initially didn't like FF5 at all. But upon getting my hands on it, (and not playing on the hardest difficulty) it's actually a lot of fun. It's not really 'scary' and the story's.. the story but the gameplay is pretty good- best in the series I think.
If we could get part 2's exploration with part 5's combat, i think we'd have a perfect survival horror game.
The biggest thing that sucks for me about the Miku-Mafuyu thing is that according to the creator himself, they were originally going to have Miku pining for Kei instead. They had planned to have them married and her give birth to Miu before Kei died, and so Miku would go in search of a way to be with Kei again.
But then they decided it would be more 'edgy' to put in incest instead, and so that's what we got. I was so bummed when I found this out....
This game was so frustrating to play, considering just how MANY times you have to walk back and forth across the same areas, not to mention the frequent defense missions. Ugh.
Okay so I think I'll have to pick some of the remasters up and get into this series proper.
hell yeah!
A remaster should come out in roughly two years judging by there realese patterns we should get a remaster or new game really soon
The proper way to do fan service costumes is to wait until a replay to enable them. I mean you wouldn't play SH3 while wearing Heather's Sexy Beam outfit on your first time through, would you?
My take is that the end of level screens only exist because RE4 is a thing - and the devs lacked the wherewithal to understand that the difference in tone made them inappropriate for their game.
(I don't think they were all that well suited to RE4 either tbh)
Japanese devs are always doing dumb shit like this - like when RE Revelations copied Alan Wake's TV episode format.
It doesn't really spoil the game for me, but it is intrusive.
I got into Fatal Frame from Spirit Camera on 3DS
I'm sure you have very good points to make during this video, but this is my second favorite entry in the series, so i think I'm just gonna let this video play while falling asleep. get that ad revenue man o7
I think you'll find that I was pretty positive on it for the most part. That being said, sweet dreams!
@@AvalancheReviews in that case, I'll give it another listen while awake, haha
KAMERA KOMBAAAAAT!!!
doot doot doot doot
DOO doooo
FRAME-ALITY!
...Sorry.
Unfortunately, you have not got the plot wrong. Mafuyu, Miku's brother is the father of Miu. They never "get busy" but still werid. Originally, Kei from the 3rd game was supposed to be Miku's ghost partner however due to the premise was dropped as there were stop story holes having miku seeking out Kei, they switched to Mafuyu and cements the good ending that Miu is the grounding force for Miku. If you look at Miu's appearance, she does have a combination of Kei and Miku's appearance.
Sad to see this retrospective come to an end but! If you ever want to have the Wii U not Wii U experience, using a Nintendo switch handheld with gyro gives almost a better experience !
That actually makes a lot of sense! I wish I would have thought of that.
What is the state of this franchise? When this game released, Nintendo has exclusive publishing rights. Some even said Nintendo owned the IP. But now I see every Fatal Frame game being released everywhere, including Playstation.
Is Nintendo not involved anymore? Or is this the one time when they are letting something of theirs go multiplat?
Nintendo never owned the IP for Fatal Frame, they simply struck a deal with KT to assist and publish Fatal Frame titles. I assume the failure of the Wii U pushed KT away from allowing Nintendo to publish Fatal Frame titles exclusively as much of Koei Tecmo's titles have gone multiplatform.
@@ejlennon2353 okay. That makes sense. There was a lot of misinformation. I read articles that claimed Nintendo fully owned Fatal Frame as a result of that deal.
@@ejlennon2353 It's not like that, Nintendo simply let Koei publish it in other platforms.
@@fattiger6957 They own this game.
I have a soft spot for Miu, cutest FF girl by far but her story is so dumb.
Would you ever think about looking into the Alice madness games especially as I can't seem to find anything about the first one
3:16
aren't they on bargain sale?
i tried to buy ouya for fun but it was super expensive
Yeah, but I already have 12 consoles hooked up to my TV. I don't want to buy a WiiU just for a single video and then never use it again.
@@AvalancheReviews
don't you
just enjoy
O W N E R S H I P
not the ghost dad/uncle
Yep. That age old stereotype
aww yes, another pitcher-filled video to enjoy
Gameplay is still fun but this Ghost marriage thing and bringing back Miku for something this braindead feels desperate. It's also disappointing that there seems to be a big lean to sexy waifus instead of actual horror/dread. They don't mix too well.
Nice video! This is my favorite horror series and I love 5 to death, 4 being my favorite entry (on the Wii, I don't like how the remaster looks funnily enough). But I understand all the negative points you mentioned and I even share most of them, I just enjoy the game so damn much, what can I say 😆. Hope they continue it someday and I would love to see a mixup of the old PS2 titles with the combat of 5. Overall great retrospective, It's cool to see someone who likes aspects of the games and also gives fair critizism to one of my favorite franchises, even this video being a little negative, but you are so polite I can't even get mad about it haha. Keep up the good work 😁
Jared saying “Goonery” made my day lmao. Also I wonder if the next game (if they make one in 2025) will use Drones or Go-Pro tech as way to spice up combat other than the Camera Obscura.
Great video man!! Also the mention of “Five Nights at Freddy’s” made me want a retrospective from you lmao.
i hated that the camera is set so close that character takes up 1/3 of screen, and how game likes to put player in combat scenarios in very small rooms and narrow corridors that makes ghosts floating inside walls and waste my time. Despite that, being completionist, i suffered through and got all the endings.
I just want to explain why the level ccomplete screens exists. The game was originally released over 10 weeks. So each level complete was an individual chapter.
That makes a lot sense!!! God, that explains so much!
That Peeling Flesh track was so unexpected hah :3 Love your videos!
What band was that??
Infant annihilator?
@@DylanYouSonOfABidgeNelson It's Peeling Flesh. VERY GOOD STUFF!
@@AvalancheReviews I like what I heard so far. Thanks, my man.
@@DylanYouSonOfABidgeNelson My pleasure!
Personnally, i had a blast playing it on the wiiu at launch, as a long time fan of the series. Pretty good visuals for the system, great atmosphere. Just dragged on for a little too long but overall, great experience.
great retrospective!
Thank you!
Fatal frame 1-3 remakes would be amazing
will you ever take a look at siren series ?
Wait, isn't Spirit Camera for the Nintendo DS technically part of the Fatal Frame franchise?
I thought this game played really great on the WiiU and wished every game in the series controlled like this one on WiiU
"This is a Wii U game". Bayonetta 2 was also a Wii U game, and that game looks stunning :/
Keep up the quality content, man. Looking forward to the Crow Country review
Working on it right now. It's gonna be dope!!
A great review as always, having a balance of interesting points and humour. Injecting fun and personality into videos makes them so enjoyable( despite some the dark subject matter)
I haven't got right to the end as I put my comment so sorry if you go over this later. I agree with a lot of what you've said about character design. Having an attractive character design is enjoyable but it's not necessary to over-sexualise these characters when it's not part of the gameplay/story. Games with uncomfortably young-looking characters in games like these or Japanese anime can be a bit weird sometimes.
I liked Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn because she wasn't over-sexualised and more importantly there wasn't an option to romance. That was 'her' choice and not the players.
In the inverse to that, with each new Mass Effect title, there is an obsession to make every character Bisexual and now have to describe them as pansexual.
Attractiveness and sexualised don't have to be the same thing, it's nice to have these points being made in a more relaxed way.
Great job with this retrospective! But why suffer the English voiceovers with these games, that kind of subtracts a point off the whole experience. But I was surprised that you liked 5 more than I thought you would. Also, I first got it on the WiiU and yes, it plays great and it's pretty impressive... What about a Siren retrospective next?
I could have used the Japanese voice over, but I kind of feel like I'd be commenting on something most people wouldn't have experienced. I don't really have any plans for a Siren video at the moment. Right now there are so many new survival horror games, i don't have time for the old ones. That's a very weird situation to be in. HA!
Honestly, at the time with the Wii U controller it was my first experience with anything that seemed "augmented reality". I enjoyed it for a once through, though how to beat the final boss was really odd and non-intuitive. The mountain was very repetitive. However, it was fun.
They should NOT have revisited Miku's storyline again. Fatal Frame is in need of a revamp to move the series forward.
I mean there's a lot of mangas and anime from japan where the brother and sister are in love. So it happening in this game isnt that far out.
56:00 yup those jumps would trigger me after a while
The way you describe the state of gaming makes me think that's what happened to yakuza what once was a small niche experience blew up with one of its best entries being yakuza 0 the best prequel I've ever played.
but 7 onwards just got worse and worse with infinite wealth making me decided that besides remakes i think I'm done with the series. ps keep up the good work!
Thanks man! Honestly, I think the industry can't continue like this. Games will keep getting more bland and focus tested, and people will buy them less. I genuinely think another crash is coming.
@@AvalancheReviews I feel that I'd call infinite wealth bland sure it's got all this post game junk a Pokémon style side game and a animal crossing style game but.
Spoilers the plot is absolutely terrible especially comparing the two protagonists side by side it's a 40 hour plus campaign but half of it I can't stand.
And even the good parts are bogged down with the super grindy combat which I just don't understand.
The judgement series perfected the dragon engine combat and then 7 and 8 are both very grind 15 hours to progress turn based combat.
Sorry for the rant but yakuza 0-6 shaped me into a different person it took almost all of kiwami 1 and swapping to 0 for it to click but it became the first series that I might put above resident evil.
But gaiden 7 and infinite wealth all have extreme problems not saying that the games before were perfect except yakuza 0 and 2, kiwami 2
@@AvalancheReviewslook at ubisoft they are practically finished right now. A crash can only be a good thing right now it’s too bloated and the talent is spread too thin
You can actívate the viewfinder in the options
.........I'm very upset that I didn't know this
@@AvalancheReviews For some reason the game doesn't tell you that it is there.
@@AvalancheReviewsYou can Even put the voices on japanese
Moral judgements were totally unnecessary
Game of thrones " keeping it in the family" plot lines , has a lot to answer for.
Holy hell! I'm early for an Avalanche Video! Thanks for blessing us today. Fatal Frame really spooked me out as a kid back then.
Hope ya like it dawg!
@@AvalancheReviews Hell yeah! Absolutely loved your take on the game's presentation and how lines are delivered.
8:51 sure sounds a lot like Disfiguring the Goddess
It's Peeling Flesh, but fuck do i love me some DTG.
@@AvalancheReviews DTG always puts a smile on my face. As does your videos. Appreciate it.
Project Zero: Maiden of Black Water is what you get when you ask the people who make Dead or Alive to do a survival horror game.
This might look like I'm making a joke about the amount of fanservice, but I'm deadly serious.
Well I know what I'll be doing for the next hour 😎👍. Thanks for the upload
My man!
Everything was ruined by ghost incest, destroying their first protagonist, and heavy focus on fetish. Halfway thorough we see Miu's flashback idol photoshoots. Towards the end we see her and her mom (same age looking) Miku sleeping in bed facing each other in a very yuri-coded way.
I thought the tecmo koei merge or being bought by Nintendo was what ruined them, but it could very well be the original creators ruining it themselves.
and now you should cover the fatal frame movie from 2014! it’s actually very good
Video Obscura: Maiden of Gamer Girl Water. Beautiful stuff as always, Jared.
Wii U >>>>>>> This channel
🙌
This means war
@@AvalancheReviews 😂
I will die on this mountain.
Wii U + NintendoLand + Star Fox Zero = that's all I need
have you ever finished alone in the dark?
Not yet. It's on the short list of stuff I have to do soon.
@@AvalancheReviews
even i did that already
and it's pretty good
tho they do screw up aspect ratio in some cutscenes
the past was the worst
Wasn't this originally called "Maiden of Wetness"?
No , the game were first released as JP only , when they first teased for English localization the title for that time were Fatal Frame : Oracle of the sodden raven , then later changed to Maiden of the black water
1 hour long? Thats atleast 5 nights to sleep for me ❤
Seems like PC version does not support gyro of any kind (PS controllers, Switch controller, Steam Deck etc).
Fatal frame. A series describing how hell various unsavory environmental apsects need to be kept supressed away in order not for them to flood out and override the world of the living.
Common themes involve folklores and pain of loss of loved ones as well as failed rituals and lots of murders. Thats a start.
Each installment of the game also have a large group of people acting as guardians of earth settling near to each hell hole and using horrific rituals on sacrificial humans to seal the gates. The logic being if a sacrificed human can take on the pain of the ritual itself this strength will be enough to keep hell away for a while. Eventually in each installment someone will bound to screw up and the ritual will fail and it is up to each installment protagonists to laid the spirits to rest and their salvation and deliverance will be another source of strength as well as a second chance to properly seal and send the darkness of hell away.
I want you to be honest with me, are you an AI???
@@AvalancheReviews I was thinking the same thing lol the comment reads almost exactly like a ChatGPT response for a "What is Fatal Frame?" question.
Best FF for me was the second one on the Wii
You should’ve ate Wii U crow. It played really good on it. One of the cooler games for that system.
I can admit, it does look really cool.
@@AvalancheReviews I’m with you though dude the Wii U was a fucking disaster. But I have a thing for failed consoles. They take wild risks and have these hidden gems.
Overall, I liked Fatal Frame 5, but probably my biggest gripe with it is that there are no real puzzles. The exploration also feels too hand holdy.
Just was considering getting this on the steam sale what timing!
I've only played the first 3 games, but I'm well aware of the disgusting character assassination of Miku they did in 5. I sincerely hope if we get another sequel, it will undo the butchery that game did to her and retcon the incest plot. I still plan on playing through 5 eventually but my disdain for that story is going to really be an issue with me finishing it. All I can say is that gameplay better blow me away because the story is already cooked for me.
I don't remember having access to costumes on my first playthrough on the WiiU version, I think they made them available with the Remaster, I think they added a load also. I could be wrong, but I don't remember them. Thats seems like a remaster-y thing to do and not a wise choice.
I agree that FF5 is a good game, some very good elements, but also some of the traditional aspects and direction are a bit lacking.
One of the small changes I appreciate though is that a lot of ghosts in this are not introduced with a cutscene.
I don't really scare at all, regardless of the game, and definitely not when something is shown to me in a 10 second cutscene where you can see the "horror" in complete detail, where you have no control and are totally safe. However, I have vivid memories of some ghosts in FF5 just appearing suddenly, from the sky or through a window, out of nowhere, which is way more effective than a cutscene as you can't see it clearly, you have no idea what exactly it is or what it does, and there is the real danger of damage or death in that moment.
SH3 does this well, the intro sequence has you walking through a gate and then suddenly 2 enemy types never seen before (As the game has literally just started) are in there with you. It's dark, you can't see them well or in detail, you don't really know what exactly they are, if you can deal with them or how and you then have to find your way out and they are after you. This goes forward into the Mall as well, being attacked by some kind of flying thing, but there are so many other enemies after me too combined with the lack of visibility and lack of resources stop and try to deal with them all on Hard mode, I have no idea wtf it is exactly, I'm just getting out of there and trying not to take damage.
I think this is also why the SH1 first enemy encounter in the otherworld transition is so effective, and the SH2 first enemy encounter is not. One is fully visible in a 15+ second cutscene and the other is you in full control whilst literally unknown horrors descend on you. You couldn't do this all the time, some bosses for instance may suffer without proper build up, however I think that in terms of horror this philosophy in how enemies first appear is the most impactful, some real "oh shit... wtf is that, whats going on" moments that you then have to brave or run away from and you have to figure out what exactly your facing through that process.
thanks, youtube, for not showing this in my sub list. jesus...
This along with Spirit Camera on NDS are the only FF I haven't touched directly. When I saw that it was a WiiU exclusive I knew I had to skip on this because I don't own the console and just watch playthroughs of it (and luckily, I came across a channel that translates JP releases at the time). Horror-wise, it definitely fell from its predecessors aside from a couple of enemy design and moments such as the tall lady which is based on real-life urban legend. One noticeable thing is that the team that worked on it definitely left their "trademark" (Team Ninja, the one behind DoA fighting game) with the fanservicey stuff, although the wet clothing stuff is kinda smart since it's rooted in the game's mechanic + lore. Kinda sad that while FF4 tend to make the players explore different locations (especially when you compare the places you explore with Choushiro vs the girls), FF5 went back to FF3's style.
I hope we get a new FF game some day.
I want a VR Fatal Frame. Maybe someday....