You are the only person on RUclips who has a thorough and comprehensive grasp on Avoidant Attachment. You are articulate and highly riveting. You are a bright light in a dark storm. Thank you so much Ken! You are helping so many of us in deep despair. xx
That’s when I finally had to realize that my relationship with an FA was doomed. I could have handled most of his behaviors, but his complete lack of an ability to handle accountability for anything ever is just not sustainable for a relationship. This is a dead end.
@@thealphabetist mine once told me they felt like we don’t have a relationship like other couples, like it was my fault being kept at arms length - completely one sided but they never considered that their low commitment was a issue
No one has helped me more this dude. Honestly, I was a mess before I found Ken. Now I am armed with tools that are helping me crawl and claw my way out of this confusing and destabilizing relationship. Whenever I feel myself getting weak and making excuses for my ex and his abusive avoidant behavior, I listen to Ken and he sets me straight. Also, he is sympathetic to the victims of avoidants-which is a much needed perspective in this culture of excusing these destructive individuals.
Hey man, this is the craziest breakup I’ve ever gone through and I wanted to let you know I was really hesitant on listening to your videos when they popped up as they were quite long but I’m so glad I did. The way that you described how some avoidants can go robotic and numb is so on point. I vividly remember her saying she felt numb and from that day on it felt like I was dealing with a completely different person. I legitimately questioned my own sanity and judgement until I discovered attachment theory and your videos. This is the craziest breakup I’ve ever gone through because it feels like everyday I genuinely fell more in love, while she was falling out of it. It’s made me discover my own hobbies again and start taking my fitness and health seriously again which is great but I feel like I am having withdrawals from her. Thank you for taking the time to put this together.
Thank you for helping me finally understand the avoidant guy who has been stringing me along for 2 years now. It's like loving a boomerang. He loves me passionately one day and then freaks out and super cold the next day. It is cruel and I am truly starting to hate him.
It was the most confusing and painful time in my life. I look back and I can't even believe it. Your work has helped me so much in understanding that this was not about ME! I will share with anyone who is struggling, if you do the inner work to truly heal, cut them off, turn inward, work on those inner wounds that kept you in that dynamic, I am telling you, you will come out of this better and more amazing than before. My life has wholly changed after this really hard time in my life and the healing has been life changing in such an amazing way.
@@MissAlliPotter Honestly, 2 years. But I will admit the first year, I was doing some healing work with a therapist but I was still stuck in this story of something wrong with me and I have to try and fix/figure this out. The last year has been solely focused on me, no contact with him, and so the last 12 months have been a steady healing process. It's truly been amazing.
Rooting for ken to have more subscribers, he is phenomenal. When the world is crumbling at least he validates those feelings. Everyone will look at you and say, shake it off. It's for the best. Yeah i know all these. Still it is hard. Because those feelings were real and true. Only the person living the nightmare can truly understand.
Yes, I agree -- I've watched numerous people on here and I feel KEN IS THE BEST! I hope he doesn't quit making videos, people need his help in dealing with this.
He isn't big on social media but he has an INSANE number of clients because his content is so good and relatable. His conversion rate is very, very high. I think thats why he doesn't feel a need to put out tonnes of content. What i see with almost all other attachment coaches are they just put out content telling people how to tiptoe around the avoidants. Really fucked up way to make a buck.
@@Avoidantslovetocopeandcope i like how ken talks some common sense into our fucked up mind. I won’t lie. I still find it very very hard to endure the pain. I went back, tossed my self respect again and again. But i can see it clearly. I know the answer. But my brain wouldn’t cope. I like how ken says it. "Sometimes we have to go through a last bit of rejection to finally see things for what it is."
@@sameehaalam1596 I think that anybody who has had a rodeo with an avoidant feels the same. Its heartbreaking beyond anything i've ever felt in my life, by far the worst thing emotionally I have ever gone through. Its been 3 months + and im still reeling in pain. Its not as bad as the first month, where i'd rather be dead. The contrast between how they were during the first 2-3 months of the relationship vs how they were once they deactivated has got to be the most mind boggling thing there ever is.
Does anyone else want to have a beer with Ken so he can say “thank fuck this relationship is over” 😂 In my darkest time, ken makes me laugh. Thank you 🙏
Got ghosted/ignored by my avoidant girlfriend a month ago - later I made the mistake of asking to meet up for face to face closure (thought that's the respectful honorable thing to do after a year of a relationship) And yeah....the gaslighting is all true, it was..... a traumatic experience when we met. She blatantly told lies and untruths to my face like it was nothing (how we had nothing in common, how I was the problem in the relationship ect.) (and what was also scary - she wasn't able to self reflect on herself IN ANY WAY, it was all about it being my fault). It was all "down to the T" of what Ken is talking about - like you're both standing in the rain and the other person says it's not raining and I'm crazy for thinking it is. At this point I'm mostly angry on my self - because ....how in the hell did I end up madly falling in love with this person. Never ever go through with this pain guys - don't ever date avoidants
This is common - because of the flaw finding they convince themselves that you are the wrong person and will usually have this skewd version of reality. I also got that one of how we had nothing in common... This is obviously BS, i mean what didnt she know about me after 3 months of dating vs when she said such a thing after 2 years. I hadn't changed who i was.
Its insane, its so painful and mine never changed even after i highlighted all the contradictory stuff she did. She chose to have zero accountability and completely gloss over/ignore everything i said and instead say that she is so disappointed in me etc all that gaslighting stuff. Even though it was all true. Very sad, they will never find true love
A big mistake with an avoidant is thinking you will be able to have closure. With a healthy person, yes...with an Avoidant, no. They cannot. Their wounds are too deep and entrenched.
46:40 waw yess!! I went through an abrupt breakup when he started dating another girl (while still in a situationship with me), couldn't even end it himself but i had to do it. I grieved a lot, went to therapy and started this healing journey and yes, after three years i can say i am totally different person! But it was rough and i still can't believe all of those raw feelings came out of me! Also lost 10 kilos, it was brutal. But, for the first time in my life (avoidant myself) i let all the feelings out which i think was the key to healing. And i wish i would found this channel back then, but even finally understanding what happened after three years gives me a sense of closure and piece. It really wasn't me! So thank you for your info and good luck to anyone who is going through it right now.
This is clear and insightful advice. It can take years to realise how unhealthy a dynamic acc is Awareness, self awareness and firm boundaries within respectful communication is critical. And ultimately to step back including blocking someone who is detrimental to your emotional stability is needed whilst you rebuild your self esteem and get your life together
Being with my ex, who actually became very open with me about his true feelings, sought out emotional support from me (this happened 9 months in), it's still no guarantee it will work out. in the end he still got triggered and gaslighted me. During our relationship he actually told me he was feeling really anxious, around me and also other areas in his life. I believe he wanted to push through it because he saw me as someone he really cared about. He told me he thought he might have fear of commitment as well but didn't know where it came from. Despite his fears, I strongly believe he was fighting them for a long time in our relationship because he also told me he was really afraid to lose me, but I do think fighting his fears cost him so much energy. After one particular intense emotional moment between us he broke up with me a few days later telling me he never loved me and blaming me for his problems with anxiety. He did express to me later he was feeling extremely guilty actually, wanted to talk to me but I didn't want to see him anymore after what happened. I have no idea how he processed the breakup, but he looks totally haunted and exhausted now.
Re first example (the dusty surfaces checker) - SO validating. I want to warn everyone how much damage this kind of person will do to your entire grasp of who you are and who you can trust thereafter. It's been 5mths since break up and even though I've overcome significant challenges in my life, I still can't sleep without a light on, go to a shopping centre etc. My ex (4yrs together) and I also had a quick start, also both in our 40s, the flaw finding began about 1yr in, so did his aggressive outbursts, later violence, and like in the example, he'd also freak out that I'm going to leave. I'd not seen anything like it before, neither of us knew about attachment theory. I had to speak to a few lawyers and DV counsellors before I could even acknowledge the facts of the situation. Now, he has rewritten history, facts and milestones altered - it's disturbing. I wish there were more information like your channel out there.
i'm sorry, i went through exact same thing and i'm at 3months no contact and i find myself want to cry at random moments and unable to smile or enjoy life, i've never experienced a similar relationship before
@@spiritwanderer777My heart goes out to you. It's such an extreme contradiction of feelings at once. I hope you have good support, esp from yourself to yourself. Take care
Why does he treat me like a gf and then call me a "friend"...refuses physicality, but is hyper sexual...cuddles with me in past, but then forgets and says it doesn't mean anything...says I'm the one and hasn't met the one yet when I asked why he's not committed to marriage after 4 years...takes me on dates ( we make jokes and flirt about sex), but he calls it hanging out not dating. I'm confused as hell and we're up and down and in and out...he's hot then cold...up my ass then ghosts for months.
You know something is wrong with a relationship when you screenshot texts and create a Google album " I'm not crazy" and have to revisit it to help yourself through self doubt and gas lighting and what your gut feels
I see him every Sun at the same place I am and his words echo in my soul like shrapnel "Marriage...it happens when it happens." I ache for him..and he only smiles and says hello and walks away.
All these types of posts where that question gets asked why someone else does what they do I would like to shake thoroughly and say that is totally not important the only important thing is what you have control over which is yourself and then the only question that remains is why do you do what you do what you say yes and no to where you draw boundaries and assert them "We accept the love we think we deserve" ✌️
Exactly they can’t be alone to save their life and have very low self esteem I have worked that out by being single, celibate and independent for years now and actually have healed and feel better. The distance between us and my independence outside of relationship speaks in volumes. It’s clearly obvious what it is about me they have always clung onto and will never let go of. One of them I have known for 40 years!!! Yes 40 years. We were last intimate 30 years ago. He still pops up in my social media. Another I met in 2010 things ended in early 2013. He has repeatedly tried to come back every year since then last time was around last Christmas 2023!! I didn’t reply. Thank you Ken your explanations have given me confirmation and put closure to my closure 😅
They see the world different to everyone else. Its easy to understand where the gas lighting comes from - they will flaw find in any partner no matter who they are and build this image, most of the time inaccurately in order to 'protect themselves'. Some of the reasons i was given regards breaking up seemed far fetched and pathetic. I know im not perfect but your really fighting a losing battle with avoidants.
i was in a 2 year relationship with someone i think was avoidant. everything was fine and dandy and then they abruptly broke up with me and one of the millions of things they threw in my face as reasons for breaking up was "i noticed you've been clearing your history a lot and its making me feel uneasy" they used this as validation for the distrust they had for me
@@oh_tew it's peculiar behaviour isn't it. Was your partner a control freak? The way it ends so abruptly and non sensical tells you they were harbouring the feeling for some time and will just about say anything to break it off.
My inner critic is so mean....things i cant change about myself...like age. " If i was younger....prettier...less fat (even though i survived thyroid cancer and dont have a thryoid so im thicc not fat)....hes 10 years younger and for some reason im ashamed of this even though were both adults 40 and 30. Idk i was married for 15 years to the most malicious narcissist...and now my first time back on the horse...an avoidant. Great. Will i ever be "enough" for anyone?! My gawd.
Look into Ross Rosenberg self love deficit disorder, and Margarita Nazarenko has plenty self esteem building vids geared toward women that might help And Terri Cole Boundary boss, also recommended 🍀🍀🍀💪✌️
At the end of the day, it’s not really important for us (on the receiving end of it) weather it’s narcissistic or avoidant attachment driven, because the behaviour and impacts are equally abusive, crazy making and indicate a evident lack of emotional maturity and they both point to someone who lacks accountability for their actions, and is a great indicator that they have no insight into their behaviour and they both result in being equally toxic, disruptive and destructive to our lives, well being, safety and sanity.
Yes. My ex-husband es a FA and the main characteristic is that he is very erratic. One day he loved me, the day after he pushed for a divorce. Gaslighting is a defensive mechanism. He even gaslight himself. Just to protect himself because of those fears of rejection, abandonment and engulfment. But manly because of his lack of accountability. The problem is that he sounded so convincing that he really confused me a lot. I needed help from a therapist and even from a psychiatrist because I thought everything was my fault.
So my FA initial was feeling punished by my request of no contact after breaking up with me. He was hoping we can be “buddies “ as he has his other exes in his neighborhood. However at this point he refuses to talk to me or even sending me things back he promised he will. He refuses to talk about me as well to friends. We broke up end of January, I heard all the typical bs excuses. One thing was however sticking out, he said he doesn’t believe in love, he wants to grow it between us. He did tell me he loves me when he was drunk or high. The questioning of reality is very real with this breakups. I sure feel traumatized
About the post-break up. Spot on (min. 37:30) My ex-husband jumped quickly to a new relationship. Everything went fast: they started living together just 2 months after the divorce. He referred to her as a flatmate (to minimize the rebound?). They have been living together for 6 years. My impression is (from my children's comments), he's been trying to convince everyone (including himself) of the correctness of this rebound and many other decisions. He's been taking very bad decisions: lost many jobs, failed in a business, etc. After this string of bad decisions has moved to South Korea to start a new job. He always seems to believe that the "solution" is in a new job, or a new relationship or another place to live. Isn't that weird? Thanks for your videos, I am enjoying them a lot! Greetings from Spain!
Sounds like my husband. 40 and no roots. Moved to UK and he followed me here, insisted all are things were sent here and now dumped me and is moving on in life. Now I have to work how to get it all back to Oz. Says it's typical to just leave him in the shite.
I am naturally non angry (low angry) person. However, this heartwreck did give me anger that spills onto others with me being irritable short fused or just plainly walking around with heavy tension on my chest. But I do fluctuate and i dont think i have successfully completed any of the phases yet. It s been 3 weeks already. Though today I did finally manage to let a good bucketfull of tears out. 😢
Re the do avoidants drop out of therapy question. Surely they do, eventually at least. In my mind logic would have it that therapy is a direct admittance of their issues and behaviour, and their very nature is to avoid it and seeing as pattern relapse seems to be part of their package I would ‘t be surprised. My DA ex has been going to therapy for years, and credit to her she was an amazing partner, she showed almost no signs of being avoidant for the first 2 years of our relationship - only that she was still conflict avoidant. Until the end, a period of 3 months where the flood gates opened and she was full DA mode. In the few message chats post bu we had she said, “I’m still determined to understand my patterns, but right now it’s hard not to distract myself with activities and keep busy. You know me!” Yeah, the pull to distract when relapse has happened will win, going back to therapy might be intimidating as she’ll now have to address the loss of a 2.5 year relationship that was healthy and good that she sunk without appropriate consideration… not to mention ripping out the heart of someone she knows loved her and would have done anything for her(she even said that, still, no talks about what can be done)
Whenever i read stories like yours it just reinforces Ken's teachings. These people just do not change, almost all the time. I haven't heard of a success story either.
@@Avoidantslovetocopeandcope you hear all the bad stuff online, and attachment runs on a spectrum, many avoidant leaning people are fine and have functional relationships. If you’re secure, regulated and understand the avoidant wounds then you should be fine in my mind. Ken often talks about the real severe cases, they can be very mild too like my ex, before she slipped off the edge but in all honesty I had my part in that too with unregulated anxious behaviour.
Is it possible that the reason why avoidants get uncpmfprtable around people who are okay being vulnerable is because of mirror neurons. Because im just wondering about the biological or biochemical mechanism as to how they are able to perceive vulnerability but not able to process it and reciprocate it.
@@sunshineonmyshouldersmakes8331 obviously when you're used to abuse, it's easier said than done to do what and how you say it. It was hard to do this with a 'friend'...
Goodness Ken you have described 4 of my EX’s down to a T!!!!! And you described my character extremely well too which is why they were so attracted to me and then pull away and then return boomerang style. Until of course I had enough and kept them at arms length. 😅 Ahhhhhhhh yes these Avoidant EX’s have such fondness for me 😁 I know because they’ve told me about how special I am and that they still have feelings!! Alrighty then 😁
My grief counselor seduced me and started a relationship with me. I was having feelings for her because she has helped me so much after two major losses in my life. I was feeling vulnerable and fell for it. Eventually she did what love avoidants do. She would love bomb me telling me “you will finally be loved the way you deserve.” I also heard things like “I told my kids about you, my mom, and I have a lot of love for you.” Then one day, the rug got pulled and I started hearing “I’m busy, Work is hard. My kids are going through a lot. My dog. My turtle.” I mean, it was ridiculous. I finally broke it off and spoke up for myself and all of the inconsistencies. Eventually, she said I was harassing her. The gaslighting started and she made herself the victim that her mental health was being affected. 🤣🤣🤣. I had to remind her that SHE was my counselor. The only one with ptsd symptoms because of this experience was me. 🤣. This woman made me feel unsettled and like I was trying to walk straight through an earthquake.
When they push down and compartmentalize when they gaslight after deactivation, are they doing it subconsciously? Unaware of real feelings because they fully really believe what theyre saying is true? Or do they knowingly do it to protect their ego
I got enough problems handling myself, i dont want to control another. But i also dont want to wonder everyday if someone is going to snap and kill me.
So much is relatable. My fiancé became extremely critical of me after we bought a home together and merged our families. I lost my job and I became a villain. I left for a new job and she contacted my exes to try to gain validation and when I came back she changed the locks on the home. I needed police to get a few things. She forcefully wanted me to get all my things out of the house. This was traumatizing and I have her the break up obviously. On my move out day I tried to get some closure and she literally said we won’t have any. I asked for my engagement ring several times and she wouldn’t give it to me. She said she packed it with my things but it’s a lie. Why is she keeping it? Why lie? Why no closure?
How horrendous! You did not deserve that. She got triggered big time. Very painful but you know you dodged a bullet. The ring should have been given back but I’d let it go and go no contact. She does not deserve to even know you and your family. You need to protect your family from such disrespect. My 2 cents.
I really need an answer to this- and I know it may feel hard to answer as you don’t know my ex, but I’ve been ruminating on an incident that happened early on. My ex text me out of the blue like month 2 “I love you”, I responded with “is this for me”? He said he meant to text his mom. I said, “oh, whew” 😂. He didn’t reply I don’t think. Months later now I’m wondering if he was testing what my response would be. Does this happen with avoidants? Could he have really meant that for me? Months later after I tried ending it because his hot n cold was making me nuts, he said ge had a lot of love for me and that he was feeling guilty because he was seeing someone when we reconnected (we met 2 years prior to dating) and he left her for me and he hurt her. I was livid, but of course was already attached and hoping to work it out. A month later he ended it
It wasn’t for his mom. He was testing you. He sounds like a liar and a manipulator. My guess is that the same cycle repeats itself, I’ve noticed a pattern in my own relationships that I think is very telling, and very often true first most people if you think about it, the way people get together, (like in your case, he left another girl he was already with and started dating you, or at least that’s what he says, who knows if there’s more to that story or not) is usually the same way they will break up. I wouldn’t be surprised if he moved on to a new victim who has no idea he’s an asshole yet, and he probably likes having the positive attention of someone new that isn’t going to challenge him yet. Or possibly he went back to that same girl he already dumped.
Not sure why the other poster thought he was a liar and manipulator, but yes I think he was testing you. To be honest I don't understand your last three sentences? He was feeling guilty about a woman he dumped to be with you? And then wh were you livid and who was already attached?
they are manipulative..but so are empaths. For instance, was is really "oh, whew." It's passive aggressive and lacks emotional capacity and maturity to actually discuss and talk things out. I'm so SICK of people who can't talk and work on things. It's the anti-social media era - that made it worse
Yes, mine did this multiple times during off-phases. Sending me texts intended for someone who is not even on Telegram. So, yes, that's probably more common than you'd think. (They have massive shame issues and know they did something wrong but don't know how to approach you after a fallout because they fear rejection and more shaming.)
How do we know if an avoidant calling us a "friend" is to keep their options open/string along for their ego boost OR because of their fear of rejection and other insecurities that come with the avoidant attachment style?
No they are codependent appearing to look independent 😅 Insecure, hypersensitive, erratic impulse, runners is how I would describe them They find depth of emotion enticing but, cannot plunge themselves all in. Too scary they might feel something. Lol I would say from my experience my EX’s are only starting to mature in their 60’s. yeahhhhhh I feel like their mother lol 😆 which is why I will never go back. I do have a fondness but, it’s well and truly over 🤷🏻♀️
No no. The narcissist is also defensive. They have to protect ego. It's just that. As I usually say the only difference is a degree of malice narcissists have. They are more intentional in seduction and manipulation.
You are the only person on RUclips who has a thorough and comprehensive grasp on Avoidant Attachment. You are articulate and highly riveting. You are a bright light in a dark storm. Thank you so much Ken! You are helping so many of us in deep despair. xx
Well, i think theres a few who are well informed. Not taking anything away fgrom Ken, ofc, but it is what it is.
Many RUclipsrs tend to coddle and cater to avoidant's. Ken is stellar and accurate.
It's always everyone else's fault except the avoidants. 0 personal accountability. They make terrible partners.
That’s when I finally had to realize that my relationship with an FA was doomed. I could have handled most of his behaviors, but his complete lack of an ability to handle accountability for anything ever is just not sustainable for a relationship. This is a dead end.
@@thealphabetist mine once told me they felt like we don’t have a relationship like other couples, like it was my fault being kept at arms length - completely one sided but they never considered that their low commitment was a issue
@@lolaweed7467😊
I agree. I hurts me to say that.
This sums it up Rupert.
No one has helped me more this dude. Honestly, I was a mess before I found Ken. Now I am armed with tools that are helping me crawl and claw my way out of this confusing and destabilizing relationship. Whenever I feel myself getting weak and making excuses for my ex and his abusive avoidant behavior, I listen to Ken and he sets me straight. Also, he is sympathetic to the victims of avoidants-which is a much needed perspective in this culture of excusing these destructive individuals.
Hey man, this is the craziest breakup I’ve ever gone through and I wanted to let you know I was really hesitant on listening to your videos when they popped up as they were quite long but I’m so glad I did. The way that you described how some avoidants can go robotic and numb is so on point. I vividly remember her saying she felt numb and from that day on it felt like I was dealing with a completely different person. I legitimately questioned my own sanity and judgement until I discovered attachment theory and your videos. This is the craziest breakup I’ve ever gone through because it feels like everyday I genuinely fell more in love, while she was falling out of it. It’s made me discover my own hobbies again and start taking my fitness and health seriously again which is great but I feel like I am having withdrawals from her. Thank you for taking the time to put this together.
Thank you for helping me finally understand the avoidant guy who has been stringing me along for 2 years now. It's like loving a boomerang. He loves me passionately one day and then freaks out and super cold the next day. It is cruel and I am truly starting to hate him.
Breaking the cycle is what counts! What you do matters most of all. ♥️
You hit the nail on the head consistently throughout this video. 🎯 Well spoken, man.
It was the most confusing and painful time in my life. I look back and I can't even believe it. Your work has helped me so much in understanding that this was not about ME! I will share with anyone who is struggling, if you do the inner work to truly heal, cut them off, turn inward, work on those inner wounds that kept you in that dynamic, I am telling you, you will come out of this better and more amazing than before. My life has wholly changed after this really hard time in my life and the healing has been life changing in such an amazing way.
Thanks for this comment, I needed to hear this.
how long did it take for you to heal/feel better?
@@MissAlliPotter Honestly, 2 years. But I will admit the first year, I was doing some healing work with a therapist but I was still stuck in this story of something wrong with me and I have to try and fix/figure this out. The last year has been solely focused on me, no contact with him, and so the last 12 months have been a steady healing process. It's truly been amazing.
The best fucking video on RUclips. You seriously rocked this
Thank you Ken for helping me understand what the hell I just experienced.
Rooting for ken to have more subscribers, he is phenomenal.
When the world is crumbling at least he validates those feelings.
Everyone will look at you and say, shake it off. It's for the best. Yeah i know all these. Still it is hard. Because those feelings were real and true. Only the person living the nightmare can truly understand.
Yes, I agree -- I've watched numerous people on here and I feel KEN IS THE BEST! I hope he doesn't quit making videos, people need his help in dealing with this.
@@repentjesusiscomingsoon1529 Totally agree
He isn't big on social media but he has an INSANE number of clients because his content is so good and relatable. His conversion rate is very, very high. I think thats why he doesn't feel a need to put out tonnes of content. What i see with almost all other attachment coaches are they just put out content telling people how to tiptoe around the avoidants. Really fucked up way to make a buck.
@@Avoidantslovetocopeandcope i like how ken talks some common sense into our fucked up mind. I won’t lie. I still find it very very hard to endure the pain. I went back, tossed my self respect again and again. But i can see it clearly. I know the answer. But my brain wouldn’t cope. I like how ken says it. "Sometimes we have to go through a last bit of rejection to finally see things for what it is."
@@sameehaalam1596 I think that anybody who has had a rodeo with an avoidant feels the same. Its heartbreaking beyond anything i've ever felt in my life, by far the worst thing emotionally I have ever gone through. Its been 3 months + and im still reeling in pain. Its not as bad as the first month, where i'd rather be dead. The contrast between how they were during the first 2-3 months of the relationship vs how they were once they deactivated has got to be the most mind boggling thing there ever is.
Does anyone else want to have a beer with Ken so he can say “thank fuck this relationship is over” 😂
In my darkest time, ken makes me laugh. Thank you 🙏
So so true!!’
💯
Got ghosted/ignored by my avoidant girlfriend a month ago - later I made the mistake of asking to meet up for face to face closure (thought that's the respectful honorable thing to do after a year of a relationship)
And yeah....the gaslighting is all true, it was..... a traumatic experience when we met. She blatantly told lies and untruths to my face like it was nothing (how we had nothing in common, how I was the problem in the relationship ect.) (and what was also scary - she wasn't able to self reflect on herself IN ANY WAY, it was all about it being my fault).
It was all "down to the T" of what Ken is talking about - like you're both standing in the rain and the other person says it's not raining and I'm crazy for thinking it is.
At this point I'm mostly angry on my self - because ....how in the hell did I end up madly falling in love with this person.
Never ever go through with this pain guys - don't ever date avoidants
Sounds like a narcissist to me😮😮😮
This is common - because of the flaw finding they convince themselves that you are the wrong person and will usually have this skewd version of reality. I also got that one of how we had nothing in common... This is obviously BS, i mean what didnt she know about me after 3 months of dating vs when she said such a thing after 2 years. I hadn't changed who i was.
Its insane, its so painful and mine never changed even after i highlighted all the contradictory stuff she did. She chose to have zero accountability and completely gloss over/ignore everything i said and instead say that she is so disappointed in me etc all that gaslighting stuff. Even though it was all true. Very sad, they will never find true love
A big mistake with an avoidant is thinking you will be able to have closure. With a healthy person, yes...with an Avoidant, no. They cannot. Their wounds are too deep and entrenched.
The closure begins with you. Disrespect and abuse is closure.
Misalignments and dealbreakers are why relationships end.
I'm at the indifferent stage but still stuck in the relationship financially. 8 months pregnant. I will get out of this one day. Never again.
Praying the best for you. Really hope you're able to gain full independence. Sending you love.
@@almightybeanchild Thank you so much, it's appreciated 🫂🙏🙏🙏
@@MadiSon-555 thoughts are with you. Stay strong
@@sammyott5288 thank you 💟💟💟💟🫂💪
I hope you find a way out.
You've got this! ❤️
46:40 waw yess!! I went through an abrupt breakup when he started dating another girl (while still in a situationship with me), couldn't even end it himself but i had to do it. I grieved a lot, went to therapy and started this healing journey and yes, after three years i can say i am totally different person! But it was rough and i still can't believe all of those raw feelings came out of me! Also lost 10 kilos, it was brutal. But, for the first time in my life (avoidant myself) i let all the feelings out which i think was the key to healing. And i wish i would found this channel back then, but even finally understanding what happened after three years gives me a sense of closure and piece. It really wasn't me! So thank you for your info and good luck to anyone who is going through it right now.
Same.
This is clear and insightful advice. It can take years to realise how unhealthy a dynamic acc is
Awareness, self awareness and firm boundaries within respectful communication is critical.
And ultimately to step back including blocking someone who is detrimental to your emotional stability is needed whilst you rebuild your self esteem and get your life together
Being with my ex, who actually became very open with me about his true feelings, sought out emotional support from me (this happened 9 months in), it's still no guarantee it will work out. in the end he still got triggered and gaslighted me. During our relationship he actually told me he was feeling really anxious, around me and also other areas in his life. I believe he wanted to push through it because he saw me as someone he really cared about. He told me he thought he might have fear of commitment as well but didn't know where it came from. Despite his fears, I strongly believe he was fighting them for a long time in our relationship because he also told me he was really afraid to lose me, but I do think fighting his fears cost him so much energy. After one particular intense emotional moment between us he broke up with me a few days later telling me he never loved me and blaming me for his problems with anxiety. He did express to me later he was feeling extremely guilty actually, wanted to talk to me but I didn't want to see him anymore after what happened. I have no idea how he processed the breakup, but he looks totally haunted and exhausted now.
Re first example (the dusty surfaces checker) - SO validating. I want to warn everyone how much damage this kind of person will do to your entire grasp of who you are and who you can trust thereafter. It's been 5mths since break up and even though I've overcome significant challenges in my life, I still can't sleep without a light on, go to a shopping centre etc. My ex (4yrs together) and I also had a quick start, also both in our 40s, the flaw finding began about 1yr in, so did his aggressive outbursts, later violence, and like in the example, he'd also freak out that I'm going to leave. I'd not seen anything like it before, neither of us knew about attachment theory. I had to speak to a few lawyers and DV counsellors before I could even acknowledge the facts of the situation. Now, he has rewritten history, facts and milestones altered - it's disturbing. I wish there were more information like your channel out there.
i'm sorry, i went through exact same thing and i'm at 3months no contact and i find myself want to cry at random moments and unable to smile or enjoy life, i've never experienced a similar relationship before
@@spiritwanderer777My heart goes out to you. It's such an extreme contradiction of feelings at once. I hope you have good support, esp from yourself to yourself. Take care
Sounds like a fearful avoidant - most likely bpd!! Look into it
@@dannywholuv those two are not the same thing! Not all avoidants have bpd or other traits
@@rupertperiwinkle4477 bpd are fearful avoidants.. If not what attachment style are they?
Why does he treat me like a gf and then call me a "friend"...refuses physicality, but is hyper sexual...cuddles with me in past, but then forgets and says it doesn't mean anything...says I'm the one and hasn't met the one yet when I asked why he's not committed to marriage after 4 years...takes me on dates ( we make jokes and flirt about sex), but he calls it hanging out not dating. I'm confused as hell and we're up and down and in and out...he's hot then cold...up my ass then ghosts for months.
You know something is wrong with a relationship when you screenshot texts and create a Google album " I'm not crazy" and have to revisit it to help yourself through self doubt and gas lighting and what your gut feels
I see him every Sun at the same place I am and his words echo in my soul like shrapnel "Marriage...it happens when it happens."
I ache for him..and he only smiles and says hello and walks away.
All these types of posts where that question gets asked why someone else does what they do I would like to shake thoroughly and say that is totally not important the only important thing is what you have control over which is yourself and then the only question that remains is why do you do what you do what you say yes and no to where you draw boundaries and assert them
"We accept the love we think we deserve"
✌️
He's just using you. Dump and block him. Life is too short for losers.
@@MD-gk2unhe knows you're desperate for him! You're a worm in his eyes
Thank you for validating my reality.
She went full avoidant right at the time I felt love. I never got a chance to say it until the break up. Did a number on me
Exactly they can’t be alone to save their life and have very low self esteem I have worked that out by being single, celibate and independent for years now and actually have healed and feel better.
The distance between us and my independence outside of relationship speaks in volumes.
It’s clearly obvious what it is about me they have always clung onto and will never let go of. One of them I have known for 40 years!!! Yes 40 years. We were last intimate 30 years ago. He still pops up in my social media.
Another I met in 2010 things ended in early 2013.
He has repeatedly tried to come back every year since then last time was around last Christmas 2023!! I didn’t reply.
Thank you Ken your explanations have given me confirmation and put closure to my closure 😅
They see the world different to everyone else. Its easy to understand where the gas lighting comes from - they will flaw find in any partner no matter who they are and build this image, most of the time inaccurately in order to 'protect themselves'. Some of the reasons i was given regards breaking up seemed far fetched and pathetic. I know im not perfect but your really fighting a losing battle with avoidants.
i was in a 2 year relationship with someone i think was avoidant. everything was fine and dandy and then they abruptly broke up with me and one of the millions of things they threw in my face as reasons for breaking up was "i noticed you've been clearing your history a lot and its making me feel uneasy" they used this as validation for the distrust they had for me
@@oh_tew it's peculiar behaviour isn't it. Was your partner a control freak? The way it ends so abruptly and non sensical tells you they were harbouring the feeling for some time and will just about say anything to break it off.
Thank you, Ken. I really needed this today.
Your analysis is spot on Ken!
My inner critic is so mean....things i cant change about myself...like age. " If i was younger....prettier...less fat (even though i survived thyroid cancer and dont have a thryoid so im thicc not fat)....hes 10 years younger and for some reason im ashamed of this even though were both adults 40 and 30.
Idk i was married for 15 years to the most malicious narcissist...and now my first time back on the horse...an avoidant. Great. Will i ever be "enough" for anyone?! My gawd.
Look into Ross Rosenberg self love deficit disorder, and Margarita Nazarenko has plenty self esteem building vids geared toward women that might help
And Terri Cole Boundary boss, also recommended
🍀🍀🍀💪✌️
Please do not despair but get away. It is all about you now.
At the end of the day, it’s not really important for us (on the receiving end of it) weather it’s narcissistic or avoidant attachment driven, because the behaviour and impacts are equally abusive, crazy making and indicate a evident lack of emotional maturity and they both point to someone who lacks accountability for their actions, and is a great indicator that they have no insight into their behaviour and they both result in being equally toxic, disruptive and destructive to our lives, well being, safety and sanity.
Yes. My ex-husband es a FA and the main characteristic is that he is very erratic. One day he loved me, the day after he pushed for a divorce. Gaslighting is a defensive mechanism. He even gaslight himself. Just to protect himself because of those fears of rejection, abandonment and engulfment. But manly because of his lack of accountability. The problem is that he sounded so convincing that he really confused me a lot. I needed help from a therapist and even from a psychiatrist because I thought everything was my fault.
RESPECT !!!!
Ethics are crucial.
You’re extraordinarily man ! BIG THANKS x
So my FA initial was feeling punished by my request of no contact after breaking up with me. He was hoping we can be “buddies “ as he has his other exes in his neighborhood. However at this point he refuses to talk to me or even sending me things back he promised he will. He refuses to talk about me as well to friends. We broke up end of January, I heard all the typical bs excuses.
One thing was however sticking out, he said he doesn’t believe in love, he wants to grow it between us. He did tell me he loves me when he was drunk or high. The questioning of reality is very real with this breakups. I sure feel traumatized
Emotional intelligence of a 2 year old. Leave and never look back.
Complex PTSD From Surviving To Thriving by Pete Walker
About the post-break up. Spot on (min. 37:30) My ex-husband jumped quickly to a new relationship. Everything went fast: they started living together just 2 months after the divorce. He referred to her as a flatmate (to minimize the rebound?). They have been living together for 6 years. My impression is (from my children's comments), he's been trying to convince everyone (including himself) of the correctness of this rebound and many other decisions. He's been taking very bad decisions: lost many jobs, failed in a business, etc. After this string of bad decisions has moved to South Korea to start a new job. He always seems to believe that the "solution" is in a new job, or a new relationship or another place to live. Isn't that weird? Thanks for your videos, I am enjoying them a lot! Greetings from Spain!
He sounds like a big loser
Sounds like my husband. 40 and no roots. Moved to UK and he followed me here, insisted all are things were sent here and now dumped me and is moving on in life. Now I have to work how to get it all back to Oz. Says it's typical to just leave him in the shite.
@@wizardofaus2985 let him figure it out. He's using you
I am naturally non angry (low angry) person. However, this heartwreck did give me anger that spills onto others with me being irritable short fused or just plainly walking around with heavy tension on my chest. But I do fluctuate and i dont think i have successfully completed any of the phases yet. It s been 3 weeks already. Though today I did finally manage to let a good bucketfull of tears out. 😢
Re the do avoidants drop out of therapy question. Surely they do, eventually at least. In my mind logic would have it that therapy is a direct admittance of their issues and behaviour, and their very nature is to avoid it and seeing as pattern relapse seems to be part of their package I would ‘t be surprised.
My DA ex has been going to therapy for years, and credit to her she was an amazing partner, she showed almost no signs of being avoidant for the first 2 years of our relationship - only that she was still conflict avoidant. Until the end, a period of 3 months where the flood gates opened and she was full DA mode. In the few message chats post bu we had she said, “I’m still determined to understand my patterns, but right now it’s hard not to distract myself with activities and keep busy. You know me!” Yeah, the pull to distract when relapse has happened will win, going back to therapy might be intimidating as she’ll now have to address the loss of a 2.5 year relationship that was healthy and good that she sunk without appropriate consideration… not to mention ripping out the heart of someone she knows loved her and would have done anything for her(she even said that, still, no talks about what can be done)
Whenever i read stories like yours it just reinforces Ken's teachings. These people just do not change, almost all the time. I haven't heard of a success story either.
@@Avoidantslovetocopeandcope you hear all the bad stuff online, and attachment runs on a spectrum, many avoidant leaning people are fine and have functional relationships. If you’re secure, regulated and understand the avoidant wounds then you should be fine in my mind. Ken often talks about the real severe cases, they can be very mild too like my ex, before she slipped off the edge but in all honesty I had my part in that too with unregulated anxious behaviour.
Is it possible that the reason why avoidants get uncpmfprtable around people who are okay being vulnerable is because of mirror neurons. Because im just wondering about the biological or biochemical mechanism as to how they are able to perceive vulnerability but not able to process it and reciprocate it.
Love your knowledge and presentation of it...subscribed.
Avoidants
Emotional terrorists
AVOID THEM AT ALL COSTS.
My study of DAs I started from narcissism.😅 Looks and feels very much alike.
Wow....spot on
My guy I think is both narcissistic and avoindant
Arent all narcissists avoidant? Like without exception. Its like, all kids throw temper tantrums.
Ruuuuuuun don't walk away
@@sunshineonmyshouldersmakes8331 obviously when you're used to abuse, it's easier said than done to do what and how you say it. It was hard to do this with a 'friend'...
Absolutely they go hand in hand I think. Add autism to mine.
Goodness Ken you have described 4 of my EX’s down to a T!!!!!
And you described my character extremely well too which is why they were so attracted to me and then pull away and then return boomerang style. Until of course I had enough and kept them at arms length. 😅
Ahhhhhhhh yes these Avoidant EX’s have such fondness for me 😁 I know because they’ve told me about how special I am and that they still have feelings!!
Alrighty then 😁
My grief counselor seduced me and started a relationship with me. I was having feelings for her because she has helped me so much after two major losses in my life. I was feeling vulnerable and fell for it. Eventually she did what love avoidants do. She would love bomb me telling me “you will finally be loved the way you deserve.” I also heard things like “I told my kids about you, my mom, and I have a lot of love for you.” Then one day, the rug got pulled and I started hearing “I’m busy, Work is hard. My kids are going through a lot. My dog. My turtle.” I mean, it was ridiculous. I finally broke it off and spoke up for myself and all of the inconsistencies. Eventually, she said I was harassing her. The gaslighting started and she made herself the victim that her mental health was being affected. 🤣🤣🤣. I had to remind her that SHE was my counselor. The only one with ptsd symptoms because of this experience was me. 🤣. This woman made me feel unsettled and like I was trying to walk straight through an earthquake.
Transference.
Her behavior breaches ethical boundaries. Did you report her? Good that you called her out.
I hope you found a trustworthy therapist.
When they push down and compartmentalize when they gaslight after deactivation, are they doing it subconsciously? Unaware of real feelings because they fully really believe what theyre saying is true?
Or do they knowingly do it to protect their ego
I got enough problems handling myself, i dont want to control another. But i also dont want to wonder everyday if someone is going to snap and kill me.
I love your brutal honesty! 😂 Can I make them open up? No! 🤣
So much is relatable. My fiancé became extremely critical of me after we bought a home together and merged our families. I lost my job and I became a villain. I left for a new job and she contacted my exes to try to gain validation and when I came back she changed the locks on the home. I needed police to get a few things. She forcefully wanted me to get all my things out of the house. This was traumatizing and I have her the break up obviously. On my move out day I tried to get some closure and she literally said we won’t have any. I asked for my engagement ring several times and she wouldn’t give it to me. She said she packed it with my things but it’s a lie. Why is she keeping it? Why lie? Why no closure?
How horrendous! You did not deserve that. She got triggered big time. Very painful but you know you dodged a bullet. The ring should have been given back but I’d let it go and go no contact. She does not deserve to even know you and your family. You need to protect your family from such disrespect. My 2 cents.
Absolutely and very long term trauma
Great, thanks
I really need an answer to this- and I know it may feel hard to answer as you don’t know my ex, but I’ve been ruminating on an incident that happened early on. My ex text me out of the blue like month 2 “I love you”, I responded with “is this for me”? He said he meant to text his mom. I said, “oh, whew” 😂. He didn’t reply I don’t think. Months later now I’m wondering if he was testing what my response would be. Does this happen with avoidants? Could he have really meant that for me? Months later after I tried ending it because his hot n cold was making me nuts, he said ge had a lot of love for me and that he was feeling guilty because he was seeing someone when we reconnected (we met 2 years prior to dating) and he left her for me and he hurt her. I was livid, but of course was already attached and hoping to work it out. A month later he ended it
It wasn’t for his mom. He was testing you. He sounds like a liar and a manipulator. My guess is that the same cycle repeats itself, I’ve noticed a pattern in my own relationships that I think is very telling, and very often true first most people if you think about it, the way people get together, (like in your case, he left another girl he was already with and started dating you, or at least that’s what he says, who knows if there’s more to that story or not) is usually the same way they will break up. I wouldn’t be surprised if he moved on to a new victim who has no idea he’s an asshole yet, and he probably likes having the positive attention of someone new that isn’t going to challenge him yet. Or possibly he went back to that same girl he already dumped.
Not sure why the other poster thought he was a liar and manipulator, but yes I think he was testing you. To be honest I don't understand your last three sentences? He was feeling guilty about a woman he dumped to be with you? And then wh were you livid and who was already attached?
they are manipulative..but so are empaths. For instance, was is really "oh, whew." It's passive aggressive and lacks emotional capacity and maturity to actually discuss and talk things out. I'm so SICK of people who can't talk and work on things. It's the anti-social media era - that made it worse
C’mon, he just out of the blue texts his mom I love you. And he accidentally texted you and not his mom. No way Jose.
Yes, mine did this multiple times during off-phases. Sending me texts intended for someone who is not even on Telegram. So, yes, that's probably more common than you'd think. (They have massive shame issues and know they did something wrong but don't know how to approach you after a fallout because they fear rejection and more shaming.)
How do we know if an avoidant calling us a "friend" is to keep their options open/string along for their ego boost OR because of their fear of rejection and other insecurities that come with the avoidant attachment style?
@kenreid
No they are codependent appearing to look independent 😅
Insecure, hypersensitive, erratic impulse, runners is how I would describe them
They find depth of emotion enticing but, cannot plunge themselves all in. Too scary they might feel something.
Lol I would say from my experience my EX’s are only starting to mature in their 60’s. yeahhhhhh I feel like their mother lol 😆 which is why I will never go back.
I do have a fondness but, it’s well and truly over 🤷🏻♀️
What if they own it but then don’t DO anything about it despite saying they are going to
U are awesome
No no. The narcissist is also defensive. They have to protect ego. It's just that. As I usually say the only difference is a degree of malice narcissists have. They are more intentional in seduction and manipulation.
These people are narcs babies..stay away
I have to slow down to 75% speed to be able to follow you
I don’t
Can you please list the books you recommend again?
One of them he mentions is "Men Who Can't Love."
He‘s scared she‘s scared
“How we love” (Milan and Kate Yerkovich: he is AP and she is DA.)