I wont say 'yes he is/no he isnt doping', but its absolutely right to ask questions and scrutinise, especially when you consider the team he's on, the management, and their horrendous doping record... to be honest, NOT asking questions is the real sin. No single rider is bigger or more important than the sport, whatever the fan boys say.
Given history, over many decades, we should accept the spectacle that is cycling. It hasn't changed, nothing is new, this is how it has always been. And what a show it is!
just to be sure, you're pondering the exact same questions of Vingo also for the exact same reasons, right? i have zero faith that the peleton is clean, any of it. the biological passport makes it far too easy, especially when coupled with TUE exemptions and altitude training excuses.
@@TheBassallyear100 every rider. Like I said "no single rider is bigger or more important than the sport'...this also means that no rider is above suspicion.
@@slomo7070 nah. Ive watched cycling since 1986, I absolutely accept that these things go on, but turning a blind eye is as good as condoning it, and I wont do that, if you really loved the sport you wouldn't condone its abuse and humiliation either.
Please look at the video from GCN. They tested the original bike from Pantani against a Pinarello Dogma up a climb in UK. Time difference only one second! Don’t believe that Pantani used only heavy scrap!
The time difference was 2 seconds, BUT the presenter says that he puts average 10 w more on the bianchi! Go to rewatch if you don't believe me (I just did). So, it's fair to say that modern equipment give athletes an actual advantage
Yes they do give an advantage, but not that big of an advantage 10 watts of savings on a new bike shouldn’t mean that all your times in the tour should be the fastest ever. The doping era should be the fastest times in history. People haven’t evolved since then and bike technology isn’t good enough to beat the doping times. The rider is the most important aspect of biking.
@@mattstidston8722 i can't disprove what your saying but either you can't prove it. BUT I think that like every other sport, all the techniques, the gears, the training methods, the alimentation, the science in general has made progress. Probably in those years everyone was doped but also yes, people now have the chance to beat old performances, generally speaking
it's not possible to pedal 7W/kg for 40 minutes naturally, will you guys finally fucking understand that for once just like you don't lift 260kg above your head without enhancement just like you don't run
I think it is a bit weird that experts and journalists keep talking about Pogacar, Vingegaard and others that do very good are doped. And then the same people talk about Merckx being the greatest cyclist of all time. But they forget to mention he was caught and suspended 3 times for doping in a era where there wasn't that much testing.
@@maxwellmcdowell3744 i’m not saying Pogacar or any of them are using doping at the moment. We’ll find that out sometime in the future. But i am saying that they can’t jugde someone that hasn’t been proven to use anything illegal when they still talk about others that has been proven guilty multiple times at the best ever.
Well, there's several reasons for that : one of those positive tests is considered dubious, because it came from a 'tip' from a direct competitor, testing wasn't terribly accurate, and most importantly: doping of that time did not give the extreme advantages or risks that it did from the late 80's to the Armstrong years. Doping wasn't a mortal sin as much in that time, because it wasn't as impactful, so mostly a "naughty you, you've been disqualified!". Later on, with blood doping/Epo some athletes actually died from it. That's the biggest reason why.
@@alexandernys9314 Merckx was still using drugs though. He was caught 3 times. Once was as you said a little dubious. But one of them was by the Belgian cycling federation. They wouldn’t have done that to their own rider if it wasn’t true though.
What we know about Merckx and drugs, the first failed drug test was almost certainly a frame job, the only issue being how involved were the Italian authorities and organisers of the Giro, the second failed drug test was an unfortunate mistake made by the team doctor and the relevant drug was later removed from the banned list because it does not have a performance advantage. The third failure was definitely Merckx's fault, he knew what he was doing
I lived through the Lance Armstrong era so I will always have a healthy skepticism in cycling. If Pogacar is doping then we have to believe all the top riders are too-Remco, Jonas, Matthieu, etc. if so, we are once again in an era of massive doping. Can’t say I’m there yet but I won’t rule it out.
Interesting, GCN Did this exact test, using a Bianchi Mega Pro which was Marco Velo’s Race bike and compared it to a modern bike, they were shocked at how good the old bike was, and in comparison the modern bike was only a couple of seconds faster! Not minutes faster!
I started racing in 1962, when the sport in the UK was still all about time trials at standard distances on flat courses. I started winning club events in 1963, and I was aware that people in my club and other local area clubs were suspecting me of cheating, although no one accused me to my face. I recently came across a photo from 1964 of my club's dinner, dance, and prizegiving, when I was club champion I was standing next to the guest of honour, and she towered over me. The rest of the award winners were situated to the left and right of us. I looked like a little kid, and it really hit home why it must've seemed that I was cheating. I can say from experience, it's quite corrosive for someone when it's assumed that one must be cheating. Pogacar has been through all the protocols, so let's wait until actual evidence emerges, if it should ever do so, before thinking the worst of him.
I agree. Lets wait and give him the benefit of the doubt. Since the Armstrong era, they have rigorous testing and blood passports so cheating is super difficult.
There's guys that go to the gym and take take steroids to gain an inch on their arm. Cycling give somebody way more reason to do it. That's why the ones that are pointing the finger most of the times are the ones doing it. The new thing now is testosterone therapy lmfaooo00. Ohhh I'm not cheating my doctor gives me vitamins
I find it humorous that there are all these question marks over pogacars numbers, a rider that had the perfect lead in to the tour. Yet no question of Jonas that had a collapsed lung,to name just one of his injuries and Remco with a broken collarbone. If any rider should be questioned it would be Vingegaard in my opinion . What were his numbers that pogacar only put 1.08 into someone coming back from his injuries.?????
You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till next year when hopefully we have a fully fit Jonas and Pogacar trying to drop each other. There is no way Jonas was 100% after 12 weeks and all those injuries and basically 2weeks off the bike at least. Just impossible physiologically! Pogacar broke just his wrist and wasn't 100% in 2023. So if Pogacar wasn't 100% with just a broken wrist, no way Jonas was 100% after breaking multiple ribs, puncturing his lung, and breaking his collar bone which are potentially life threatening injuries!
oh my god STOP BRINGING UP "MODERN EQUIPMENT" WHEN TALKING ABOUT WATTS/Kg! equipment has nothing to do with how much power a cyclist can exert! it simply makes that power translate into more speed! power numbers are a measure of the cyclist themselves and have absolutely nothing to do with the equipment theyre using. How do so many professional cyclists and cycling content creators keep making this incredibly basic mistake???
They aren't talking about actual record power, it's an estimate. The efficiency of the equipment is a factor that would change the output of the equation used. This may or may not be something they changed between the two comparisons.
Here is the thing. No other endurance sport has seen or realised this Much recent increase in performance W/kg. His increase is equivalent to dropping +5 minutes of marathon world record. Or cracking a 9 Second 100m dash.
I’m okay with going after Tadej as long as we don’t forget about Remco and Jonas. They legitimately crushed all their numbers lmao. If the issue is watts per kilo they were all close to 7 watts per kilo…
The way Pog accelerated and distanced himself from his compatriots reminded me of the way Lance Juicestrong left people in his wake… does raise questions
It is not just Pogacar, it is the whole UAE, they all are 2 steps ahead of everyone else in the peloton, you just have to watch how N. Polit destroyed the whole peloton in a long HC climb. It is extremely hard to belive, and then you look at the management and the only think you can do is laugh and not take the sport serious
Funny thing: here in germany the press is not asking any questions about politts super change since last year. but they are asking questions about pogi.
The boundaries of performance are pushed further by the advancement in medical and pharmaceutical trickery. Everyone rides top spec bikes/equipment… everyone trains top spec regimes… not everyone can access the top doping specialists…
As a former sports journalist who covered cycling, triathlon, football, famous last words... "If it's too good to be true, then it usually is" 1. Cristiano Ronaldo's physique transformation. 2. Nicola Spirig 2 medals at 32 and 36 in the Olympics while hardly competing. 3. Tadgcar Podgcar not breathing and pushing 7 watts per kilo... You figure it out. ..
The French media may be shite stirring but come on it’s a question we’ve all be asking ourselves about Pogacar and some of his ridiculous performances in races
Given how long it's been since there was a French Grand Tour winner (let alone THE Tour), sometimes I think that they are the only ones NOT doping to the proverbial gills. 😉
The point missed here is that quite rightly 30 years ago cannot be compared with today's riders, however you can compare finishing times with riders in the same race today when stage winners say in a sprint finish look pretty good but overall winners, especially on hard climbs more than once- one rider in particular! finishing as though he had been out on club rides not exhausting stages. That rings sus' bells for me.
This is exactly what Lance was referring to when he said Pog was making a big mistake blowing the doors off of everyone every chance he got instead of playing the long game. Pog gave them (the French papers) a reason to question him by showing how much more dominate he was then the rest of the field. Lance should know, he did the exact same thing and placed the spotlight on himself with his arrogance.
yeah, it may be different but you conveniently overlooked one aspekt - Pantani was doped to the grill - whilst you assume TP is riding clean. Equipment may play a role omin adding 2, 2,5 kilos to the equation - not more. So come on... either he - and all the rest - are supranatural one offs' freaks of nature, or there is ath new ob the market that we are not testing for. And they all have access to it...
Times in the pro peloton fell off a cliff after the bio-passport in 2009. During the 10s, when EPO era times were beat it was by small amounts. It's been after covid that the speeds suddenly have become insane, 10% faster than the EPO days.
@@johnnycab8986 post covid was also the era where high-carb intake became mainsteam/ubiquitous, which does complicate things. 100g/hr vs maybe 30g/hr pre covid does make a really big difference...
@@leoturgenov7440 Pro endurance athletes have known carb intake for decades. Feed schedules show 120-150g per hour in the 2010s, mapped out to the gram per minute on stages in GTs. Froomes feed schedule on stage 19 of the Giro he won had him at over 200g per hour on one of the mountains.
This year Pogi found 20 watts more than last year when he got smashed at the TDF...his team UAE Postal is flying winning all and Pollit became a climber with 80 kg weight...better equipments might give you 2/3 watts and in the 90s bikes were light still...
@@davidandras5831 better equipments is for believers so they can buy a new bike faster...stage 19 arrive to isola2000 poggi has 30 watts more then jonas/ remco...not thanks to the Colnago aero bike...UAE postal
W/kg takes into account the weight of the rider not the weight of the rider and the bike therefore equipment matters at this level. Not to mention aerodynamic drag over the course of these long races.
Former Danish pro rider Brian Holm tested his old 90's bike against a new state of the art racer on an airport runway. On flat ground the modern bike was more than 10 secs pr kilometer faster as far as I remember.
There's one big difference with the Pantani/Armstrong timeframe. EPO was the name. Early 90s, anybody a bit close to endurance sports knew what this was, what this did AND the fact they couldn't detect it. Actually, I had a physiology exam with a well known professor in Leuven. My one exam question was : EPO, explain... I had a real nice chat and at some point, he said : what do you think is going to happen? Well, they are all going to take it, there will be some accidents, eventually they will figure out a way to detect it and then it will be chaos. Trust me : every TdF cyclist in that timeframe was using it. And everybody knew it. What is different now? Well, there's not really such a thing around. Given the way the world is today, with social media, youtube,... if something like this would be around, it would be very well known. Does that mean it's all clean? That's not what I'm saying... If the press would have had a little (very little) knowledge in the early 90s, they would have made it clear that none of that was clean. Are these guys giving a great show these days? yes they are. Are they about to die? no they are not. So enjoy it for now. And try some of the (legal) stuff they are doing yourself. Example : train to eat 90grams of carbs per hour, while cycling. It's perfectly possible, even for an amateur. And what a difference that makes...
One endurance athlete could possibly have a (UN)naturally high individual hematocrit/MAX VO2 than most others, further enhanced by altitude training/hypoxic tents/etc. I am guessing that was/is the whole purpose of the 'biological passports', to see if there are any insane 'spikes' in those metrics way above and beyond what was recorded as a 'baseline' for said rider? It does seem that even that check has some faults/'get arounds' if the teams and riders so desire. ??
Athletes are getting better overtime, getting younger due to training, conditioning, nutrition and all the R&D’’s. It’s like comparingJohn McEnroe vs Carlos Alcaraz or Novak Djokovic. Look at today’s athletes. See how fit they are.
you're forgetting the drugs lol. if they're not on drugs, and drugs work so well, where are the non-pro riders that use drugs who can beat their times? they are non-existent. just like how there aren't roided out gym rats outlifting "tested" olympic athletes.
Yeah. He wouldn’t be the only one. One thing that Jimmi didn’t seem to consider is that doping techniques have also had 30 years to progress and get more effective.
If any of the top 10 finishers of the TDF got on a 30 year old push bike from the TDf they would still be quicker than me. I accept that bike tech has moved on. However he has been riding like that all year, even through the Giro, and shows no signs of slowing down or fatigue. I think they are all on something that is border line legal/illegal.
Very true, as an ex Sports Journo, I dont know how Podgcar is doing it, but doing it he is I am in no doubt.. he comes across to me as a complete lab rat tbh...
think of the money involved, changing hands, doing everything they can think of to raise popularity of the sport....the drugs stay way ahead of the tests as well. naivete is a helluva drug.
Yes, but doping aside, the peloton as a whole is faster, and those guys leading up the climb are doing so faster. And so if he is doping so is Jonas, and the rest of the group.
I suspect that the leaders are using something that isn't banned yet. That's why Pog doesn't seem to care about how suspicious his performances look. As far as he and the anti-doping agencies are concerned, he is clean.
I love how the same exact things were said during Armstrong's period. It's the tech (carbon became popular around 1989 in the peloton), training, nutrition etc. Same shit, different era. Lance was tested 500 times and never failed a SINGLE test lol.
thats not actually true, Lance tested positive for roids multiple times at the 99 tour. but he said it was some saddle cream he was using and so got off scot free.
@@JeffSana30 Still, the UCI is not just protecting him as you suggest but protecting the top 10-20-30. Ut’s kind of dishonest and pointless to talk him without mentioning the others. The playing field is level.
I agree with the statement that the playing field is leveled for all racers, but from the opposed perspective from Jimmi's : I assume all the top pros are using something. In the world of PEDs, new molecules are created every month or so, and testing for them appears a few years later (it is an arm race, every side permanently compete to be on top of the other). If you do not test for a specific product, you won't see it in the blood work. At this level of the sport, with the widespread following of the event and with the quantity of money invested, every team will try to be on top with every means necessary. It is part of the game. It does not only concern cycling though : olympics, football, rugby, basket, even golfing, etc. Does it lessen the spectacle quality and the performances realised? IMO no, because no one has an unfair advantage. I think many people unfortunately are 'naive' on this topic.
Isn't that the idea of the blood passport. They don't have to specifically know what to test for as they track the markers that the doping would directly affect.
Gas chromatography shows every alien molecule present in the blood. The equipment may not be able to name the molecule but a peak will show on the readout.
I would love to see their hematocrit levels throughout the race. It would tell you just about everything you need to know, but unfortunately the UCI will never go down this road.
Some people have werry optimal genetics for different Sports.. I dont belive pogacar ever have get into any types of doping... Some people can survive and even get faster when the muscles burns... That pain get into most of us... Wil break you down... I am into bodybuilding in old ages and when people think they train to failure they are only doing 75%...as the best.... Some look little bit like szwarzenegger from birth.. Some never reach that level... Maybe whit drugs.. Pogacar is young still and he is in hes prime...its easy to talk about drugs when someone is so good.....lets hope he cycle more years.. Its a joy to see.. Be strong out there 🙏🧙♂️
Everyone keeps talking about all these marginal gains, but NO one can show the math supports these massive changes. We can't rely on random testing, the Armstrong era showed that.....Doping is way ahead of testing. 3 drugs can now stimulate homologous production of EPO, Gene Doping technology is VERY possible with no easy way to test. The Passport system is/was a joke. We just don't trust athletics like we use to. So if we hold onto blood, and fluid samples for 10 years and then have a test that finds them positive are we going to take away results then??? Yes I love watching sports but I just cannot believe its clean.
During the race (TDF), @riding bike, nowadays Pogacar drink (watter+sugars) about 85.000 kJ more than Pantani. This is like 14 Kg of cooked pasta or 17 kg cooked rice more in 3 weeks.
Panatani rode in ancient times of cycling. Today it's all about science. I believe Pogacar is clean. Nobody from WT teams would allow such thing like massive doping. It would be their end. Sponsors would run away...
The bikes are better with aero, the nutrition is 500% better. The training is now more about not racing January to October, but training for specific targets and spending months in Mallorca living at sea level snd train at altitude. it's like apples to Igloos not even in the same conversation. 🏁 Look at the overall speed of this Vuelta it's insane.💪🏼🏁🏆
I never watch these extra clips until this one. Screw the comparison to Pantani, view it as an energy function for power. Tadej stated he lost 10kg going into the TdF. That's around 22lbs!!! Yet he has that much power to get up a steep climb that? Even carb loaded while sprinting? IN AN ENERGY DEFICIT. EXTREMELY sus, Jonas as well. Jonas last year looked ill at his body weight. I am not buying these power records, they're either doing some form of TRT or they're motor doping.
Their bodies at this stage should probably have stopped producing testosterone completely they are in such a catabolic state. To be honest the demands of the tour are so disgusting on the body you must have to dope to some degree to survive it.
You can believe they are clean and I can still believe in Santa Claus at 35 years old. Also w/kg has NOTHING to do with equiptment. You could pull 7/kg on a beach cruiser single speed.
They were all doping in Pantani's times, adding new tech and training regime can only get you so far, they're all doping nowadays too, just something else.
I am probably being cynical but I just find a hard time to believe that so many athletes have asthma... Now I just don't care about these news and assume that everyone is on something. They are just not officially banned yet.
@@tomertz1 They are destroying the times set by massively doped up riders!? People saying that's because of a 1kg lighter bike and tyres. Oh yeah and the all important aero handlebars. LOL
In that case, they should also review Jonas's time trial efforts from last year. Even if doping is involved, there's too much money is generated through these wins, and cyclists are expected to secure victories for their teams/sponsors, I would say, rootcase is not only the rider but the team mgmt as well. It's not as if one rider is outbeating everyone else just to set a personal record on a single climb vs pressure to win and do the job.
All professional sports run on gear. They take whatever they take while passing the tests. In this regard, cycling is among the cleanest, though perhaps someone can name one cleaner. If you don't like it, don't watch. If you need some kid who rides a bike fast (or tosses a ball through a hoop) to be your hero, then really: the problem is you.
Just look at the output of Watts and you have your answer. That has nothing to do with the more modern equipment and also keep in mind that Pantani was doped when he broke the record….
I guess they viewed it the ultimate insult that a U.S. rider was so dominant, (especially one without a Gallic surname; i.e.; unlike LeMond), even though they were correct.
I agree with Jimmi's take on this, tho it is reasonable to wonder in light of the dominance of a handful of riders. Still, who knows and the riders are paid entertainers and as we saw with Lance and his crew, the act can go on for years and years until the ticket buyers find out what's been happening backstage. But not the end of the world, what happened on that bus, just rock stars doing rock star stuff for the money and the fame and the game.
Another very poor commentary. First of all, @Hephera is right. Equipment and W/kg has nothing to with each other. Second, and more importantly: we KNOW for a fact that Pantani, Armstrong, Riis, Indurain, Ullrich and Virenque were heavily doped. Now, you think an "assumed" un-doped ("clean") rider is able to pulverize the numbers and times of heavily doped pros??? Just because of equipment?! Armstrong and Pantani and Ullrich all head 6.8kg Carbon bikes already. You guys still awaiting Santa Claus, huh? :-)
3:25 into video. There is a herd of elephants in the room. He is doping with a new/novel drug/method. We are also comparing to just 3-5 years ago, not 30 years ago. This is about w/kg not the bikes. He is doped!
if you ask google how much EPO increases your power, ist about 10%, I don't know if the todays Pro's are doped, but a bike from 25 years back is as least 10 percent slower than a todays bike
Well if you compare the 100 m Olympic final winning time to the 100 m times ONE HUNDRED years ago the difference is .81 of a second , so don't tell me he is not on something
Just get Pog to go up the climb of controversy on an old Bianchi from that era. I’m sure he’d be ip for the challenge as he seams to take everything in good humour. Things have simply moved on since the dark days with a million little advances making huge time differences. 👍🏼👍🏼
I would loose my little faith in humanity remaining if Poggie ever tests positive. Really hope he is and keeps clean. Not another Lance the Liarstrong please..
If Pog is using a new pharmaceutical, gas chromatigraphy will detect it and a peak will appear on the readout even though mass-spectroscopy may not be able to identify the molecule.
Gains would be in small incriments. Large gains by so many riders do not hold up. We know they were doped when the revords were set. Doing goves you such a huge advantage. Modern equipment and training would be hard pressed to equal the doped climbing records. Smashing the record is not logical.
Can't wait to see Ed do that. By my estimations (which are fairly conservative and with a well above average knowledge of training, nutrition, tactics and equipment), there is at least a +40w penalty to Pantani vs Pogi's setup. That's roughly 0.6w/kg.
That would explain the speed difference, yes. But not the w/kg. The only factor that I see impacting w/kg is fueling, and of course training methods. But all the tech just makes for higher speeds at similar w/kg. No? Or am I missing something? Not that i think anything nefarious is going on.
There is not a 40 watt advantage on a 8% climb vs Pantani’s setup. On the flat at 45kmhr yes but not on a climb. We are talking about watts per kg here plus any bike weight differences.
Round 1. Effort on modern equip. Round 2. Effort on 30 yr old equip. Round 3 Effort on 30 yr old equipment coming off of a 9 month training block with epo, test, and growth.
I wont say 'yes he is/no he isnt doping', but its absolutely right to ask questions and scrutinise, especially when you consider the team he's on, the management, and their horrendous doping record...
to be honest, NOT asking questions is the real sin. No single rider is bigger or more important than the sport, whatever the fan boys say.
Given history, over many decades, we should accept the spectacle that is cycling. It hasn't changed, nothing is new, this is how it has always been. And what a show it is!
just to be sure, you're pondering the exact same questions of Vingo also for the exact same reasons, right? i have zero faith that the peleton is clean, any of it. the biological passport makes it far too easy, especially when coupled with TUE exemptions and altitude training excuses.
@@TheBassallyear100 every rider.
Like I said "no single rider is bigger or more important than the sport'...this also means that no rider is above suspicion.
@@slomo7070 nah. Ive watched cycling since 1986, I absolutely accept that these things go on, but turning a blind eye is as good as condoning it, and I wont do that, if you really loved the sport you wouldn't condone its abuse and humiliation either.
Brah, he’s doping. They’re all doping! The stubborn obtuseness and intellectual dishonesty around this topic makes me 🤮.
Please look at the video from GCN. They tested the original bike from Pantani against a Pinarello Dogma up a climb in UK. Time difference only one second! Don’t believe that Pantani used only heavy scrap!
The time difference was 2 seconds, BUT the presenter says that he puts average 10 w more on the bianchi! Go to rewatch if you don't believe me (I just did). So, it's fair to say that modern equipment give athletes an actual advantage
Yes they do give an advantage, but not that big of an advantage 10 watts of savings on a new bike shouldn’t mean that all your times in the tour should be the fastest ever. The doping era should be the fastest times in history. People haven’t evolved since then and bike technology isn’t good enough to beat the doping times. The rider is the most important aspect of biking.
@@mattstidston8722 i can't disprove what your saying but either you can't prove it. BUT I think that like every other sport, all the techniques, the gears, the training methods, the alimentation, the science in general has made progress. Probably in those years everyone was doped but also yes, people now have the chance to beat old performances, generally speaking
Pantani made the climb alone from the beginning, whilst pocacar made it with strong leads
it's not possible to pedal 7W/kg for 40 minutes naturally, will you guys finally fucking understand that for once
just like you don't lift 260kg above your head without enhancement
just like you don't run
And Jonas beating everyone in the TT last year by 1:50?! Come on guys.
Only 1:38. It was a really good day😊
@@tobiasyndestad1518 Pogi has had a "really good year".
Pogi is EVERY 2024 race is like Jonas ONE race in 2023. Yes, sure he is clear😂
@@jou3708 Jonas fanboi's suck...lmao at you. Pogi is the NEW CANNIBAL
Jonas faced a lot of questions after that as well, dont think the situation is any different
It’s not just the 7w/kg it’s the ability to push out these numbers off the back of accumulated fatigue not just in a stage but over several weeks.
They've found some way to manage inflammation and muscle damage
I think it is a bit weird that experts and journalists keep talking about Pogacar, Vingegaard and others that do very good are doped.
And then the same people talk about Merckx being the greatest cyclist of all time.
But they forget to mention he was caught and suspended 3 times for doping in a era where there wasn't that much testing.
So true. Let's please face the facts of pro cycling.
@@maxwellmcdowell3744 i’m not saying Pogacar or any of them are using doping at the moment.
We’ll find that out sometime in the future.
But i am saying that they can’t jugde someone that hasn’t been proven to use anything illegal when they still talk about others that has been proven guilty multiple times at the best ever.
Well, there's several reasons for that : one of those positive tests is considered dubious, because it came from a 'tip' from a direct competitor, testing wasn't terribly accurate, and most importantly: doping of that time did not give the extreme advantages or risks that it did from the late 80's to the Armstrong years.
Doping wasn't a mortal sin as much in that time, because it wasn't as impactful, so mostly a "naughty you, you've been disqualified!". Later on, with blood doping/Epo some athletes actually died from it.
That's the biggest reason why.
@@alexandernys9314 Merckx was still using drugs though.
He was caught 3 times.
Once was as you said a little dubious.
But one of them was by the Belgian cycling federation.
They wouldn’t have done that to their own rider if it wasn’t true though.
What we know about Merckx and drugs, the first failed drug test was almost certainly a frame job, the only issue being how involved were the Italian authorities and organisers of the Giro, the second failed drug test was an unfortunate mistake made by the team doctor and the relevant drug was later removed from the banned list because it does not have a performance advantage. The third failure was definitely Merckx's fault, he knew what he was doing
I'm old enough to remember how quickly folks jumped to defend Lance.
Many people are stupid/ignorant but fans take it to an all new level of stupidity and ignorance.
I was defending after . Because all of them are dirty.
I lived through the Lance Armstrong era so I will always have a healthy skepticism in cycling. If Pogacar is doping then we have to believe all the top riders are too-Remco, Jonas, Matthieu, etc. if so, we are once again in an era of massive doping. Can’t say I’m there yet but I won’t rule it out.
Interesting, GCN Did this exact test, using a Bianchi Mega Pro which was Marco Velo’s Race bike and compared it to a modern bike, they were shocked at how good the old bike was, and in comparison the modern bike was only a couple of seconds faster! Not minutes faster!
I started racing in 1962, when the sport in the UK was still all about time trials at standard distances on flat courses. I started winning club events in 1963, and I was aware that people in my club and other local area clubs were suspecting me of cheating, although no one accused me to my face. I recently came across a photo from 1964 of my club's dinner, dance, and prizegiving, when I was club champion I was standing next to the guest of honour, and she towered over me. The rest of the award winners were situated to the left and right of us. I looked like a little kid, and it really hit home why it must've seemed that I was cheating. I can say from experience, it's quite corrosive for someone when it's assumed that one must be cheating. Pogacar has been through all the protocols, so let's wait until actual evidence emerges, if it should ever do so, before thinking the worst of him.
I agree. Lets wait and give him the benefit of the doubt. Since the Armstrong era, they have rigorous testing and blood passports so cheating is super difficult.
@@petyrkowalski9887But they have never tested Armstrong positive for anything.
There's guys that go to the gym and take take steroids to gain an inch on their arm. Cycling give somebody way more reason to do it. That's why the ones that are pointing the finger most of the times are the ones doing it.
The new thing now is testosterone therapy lmfaooo00. Ohhh I'm not cheating my doctor gives me vitamins
@@matmerah3700 He tested positive in 1999 and was given a pass by UCI because they wanted to milk his cancer Cinderella story.
I find it humorous that there are all these question marks over pogacars numbers, a rider that had the perfect lead in to the tour.
Yet no question of Jonas that had a collapsed lung,to name just one of his injuries and Remco with a broken collarbone.
If any rider should be questioned it would be Vingegaard in my opinion . What were his numbers that pogacar only put 1.08 into someone coming back from his injuries.?????
this.
You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till next year when hopefully we have a fully fit Jonas and Pogacar trying to drop each other. There is no way Jonas was 100% after 12 weeks and all those injuries and basically 2weeks off the bike at least. Just impossible physiologically! Pogacar broke just his wrist and wasn't 100% in 2023. So if Pogacar wasn't 100% with just a broken wrist, no way Jonas was 100% after breaking multiple ribs, puncturing his lung, and breaking his collar bone which are potentially life threatening injuries!
Yet he said he was in too form. Go figure
oh my god STOP BRINGING UP "MODERN EQUIPMENT" WHEN TALKING ABOUT WATTS/Kg! equipment has nothing to do with how much power a cyclist can exert! it simply makes that power translate into more speed! power numbers are a measure of the cyclist themselves and have absolutely nothing to do with the equipment theyre using. How do so many professional cyclists and cycling content creators keep making this incredibly basic mistake???
They aren't talking about actual record power, it's an estimate.
The efficiency of the equipment is a factor that would change the output of the equation used. This may or may not be something they changed between the two comparisons.
100% correct there 👍
Shorter cranks and saddle tilt?
@@calumramsaybrownthe estimate takes the equipment into account and would differ if you inputted pantanis equipment
What are you … a 15 year old girl? OMG
Here is the thing. No other endurance sport has seen or realised this
Much recent increase in performance W/kg. His increase is equivalent to dropping +5 minutes of marathon world record. Or cracking a 9
Second 100m dash.
I’m okay with going after Tadej as long as we don’t forget about Remco and Jonas. They legitimately crushed all their numbers lmao. If the issue is watts per kilo they were all close to 7 watts per kilo…
The way Pog accelerated and distanced himself from his compatriots reminded me of the way Lance Juicestrong left people in his wake… does raise questions
Just asking questions huh?
But Lance was dropping riders just as doped as he was. Silly to say he won because he doped. No he won as the strongest of all the doped riders.
Questions answered. When you go way faster than a junkie (Pantani) died of how much he doped, there's no mystery. He's on the good stuff
It is not just Pogacar, it is the whole UAE, they all are 2 steps ahead of everyone else in the peloton, you just have to watch how N. Polit destroyed the whole peloton in a long HC climb. It is extremely hard to belive, and then you look at the management and the only think you can do is laugh and not take the sport serious
Funny thing: here in germany the press is not asking any questions about politts super change since last year. but they are asking questions about pogi.
The question was not which one is faster, but whether 7wkg is possible without doping. Nothing about equipment there
The boundaries of performance are pushed further by the advancement in medical and pharmaceutical trickery. Everyone rides top spec bikes/equipment… everyone trains top spec regimes… not everyone can access the top doping specialists…
Pogacar is NOT breathing hard, or even sweating, riding over the finish line . . . smiling. If you're gonna dope, at least, Fake it!
Of course he was sweating and breathing hard just like Jonas, as for smiling well who wouldn't be smiling while winning Tour stages?
This is exactly what lance implied. He Pog has to chill a bit or he will get “busted “
@@johngillis7625 the fame and fortune is getting to his frekin head . . . he WILL get busted
@@savagepro9060 so stupid!!!
@@nnbegin2965 oh, thanks
As a former sports journalist who covered cycling, triathlon, football, famous last words...
"If it's too good to be true, then it usually is"
1. Cristiano Ronaldo's physique transformation.
2. Nicola Spirig 2 medals at 32 and 36 in the Olympics while hardly competing.
3. Tadgcar Podgcar not breathing and pushing 7 watts per kilo...
You figure it out. ..
The French media may be shite stirring but come on it’s a question we’ve all be asking ourselves about Pogacar and some of his ridiculous performances in races
L’Equipe wouldnt be saying this if say, Roman Bardet had won the tour.
Given how long it's been since there was a French Grand Tour winner (let alone THE Tour), sometimes I think that they are the only ones NOT doping to the proverbial gills. 😉
Didn't Lance pass all his doping tests, too
He payed off the keypersons. Known fact. UCI, TDF all pockets was lined😂
No, the positives were just covered up
@@christerlundgren3805
Exactly, the conspiracy was endemic.
You'd have to believe the same if you're saying the current riders are doping.
If you know anything about that time you would know that the anti-doping measures were barely even a joke.
The point missed here is that quite rightly 30 years ago cannot be compared with today's riders, however you can compare finishing times with riders in the same race today when stage winners say in a sprint finish look pretty good but overall winners, especially on hard climbs more than once- one rider in particular! finishing as though he had been out on club rides not exhausting stages. That rings sus' bells for me.
This is exactly what Lance was referring to when he said Pog was making a big mistake blowing the doors off of everyone every chance he got instead of playing the long game. Pog gave them (the French papers) a reason to question him by showing how much more dominate he was then the rest of the field. Lance should know, he did the exact same thing and placed the spotlight on himself with his arrogance.
Exactly!
yeah, it may be different but you conveniently overlooked one aspekt - Pantani was doped to the grill - whilst you assume TP is riding clean. Equipment may play a role omin adding 2, 2,5 kilos to the equation - not more. So come on... either he - and all the rest - are supranatural one offs' freaks of nature, or there is ath new ob the market that we are not testing for. And they all have access to it...
Of course they are doping. Does everyone think it just stopped after the Lance era?
Exactly, and some love to attribute the advancement in equipment, nutrition, training, and etc, but guess what, doping advances too!
Times in the pro peloton fell off a cliff after the bio-passport in 2009. During the 10s, when EPO era times were beat it was by small amounts. It's been after covid that the speeds suddenly have become insane, 10% faster than the EPO days.
@@johnnycab8986 post covid was also the era where high-carb intake became mainsteam/ubiquitous, which does complicate things. 100g/hr vs maybe 30g/hr pre covid does make a really big difference...
@@leoturgenov7440 Pro endurance athletes have known carb intake for decades. Feed schedules show 120-150g per hour in the 2010s, mapped out to the gram per minute on stages in GTs. Froomes feed schedule on stage 19 of the Giro he won had him at over 200g per hour on one of the mountains.
@@Phat-rj3jo Dope!
It's not 7 watt/kg for 40 minutes. It's this number at 2.8km altitude.
It is around 7.3w/kg for 40 minutes at sea level
Misinterpretation. According to you, he drove for 40 minutes at the top of the climb.
@@Pipe_JL absolutely correct - these 40 minutes were all at altitude.
you are correct.....spot on. he is doped to the gills. likely a novel/new drug/method not on the banned list, but he doped non the less
AND, remember, Pantani was doped to the gills when he did what he did! Hmm🤔🤨
Pantani HAD to be doped given the wildly inefficient way he was riding.
@@WesternUranus 🤣
This year Pogi found 20 watts more than last year when he got smashed at the TDF...his team UAE Postal is flying winning all and Pollit became a climber with 80 kg weight...better equipments might give you 2/3 watts and in the 90s bikes were light still...
better equipments give you 2-3 watts..:D jesus christ man are you living under a rock maybe?
@@davidandras5831 better equipments is for believers so they can buy a new bike faster...stage 19 arrive to isola2000 poggi has 30 watts more then jonas/ remco...not thanks to the Colnago aero bike...UAE postal
Why do you keep bringing up equipment, when talking about watts per kilo, which has nothing to do with equipment
7.5 w/kg on modern equipment is faster than 7.5w/kg on 30 yr old equipment.
W/kg takes into account the weight of the rider not the weight of the rider and the bike therefore equipment matters at this level. Not to mention aerodynamic drag over the course of these long races.
Remo break pantani's record too and he went to olympic to win two gold medals. Every gold medalist needed to test for doping in olympic.
Former Danish pro rider Brian Holm tested his old 90's bike against a new state of the art racer on an airport runway. On flat ground the modern bike was more than 10 secs pr kilometer faster as far as I remember.
Some of us believe in unicorns and Santa Claus
There's one big difference with the Pantani/Armstrong timeframe. EPO was the name. Early 90s, anybody a bit close to endurance sports knew what this was, what this did AND the fact they couldn't detect it. Actually, I had a physiology exam with a well known professor in Leuven. My one exam question was : EPO, explain... I had a real nice chat and at some point, he said : what do you think is going to happen? Well, they are all going to take it, there will be some accidents, eventually they will figure out a way to detect it and then it will be chaos. Trust me : every TdF cyclist in that timeframe was using it. And everybody knew it. What is different now? Well, there's not really such a thing around. Given the way the world is today, with social media, youtube,... if something like this would be around, it would be very well known. Does that mean it's all clean? That's not what I'm saying... If the press would have had a little (very little) knowledge in the early 90s, they would have made it clear that none of that was clean. Are these guys giving a great show these days? yes they are. Are they about to die? no they are not. So enjoy it for now. And try some of the (legal) stuff they are doing yourself. Example : train to eat 90grams of carbs per hour, while cycling. It's perfectly possible, even for an amateur. And what a difference that makes...
One endurance athlete could possibly have a (UN)naturally high individual hematocrit/MAX VO2 than most others, further enhanced by altitude training/hypoxic tents/etc.
I am guessing that was/is the whole purpose of the 'biological passports', to see if there are any insane 'spikes' in those metrics way above and beyond what was recorded as a 'baseline' for said rider?
It does seem that even that check has some faults/'get arounds' if the teams and riders so desire. ??
Athletes are getting better overtime, getting younger due to training, conditioning, nutrition and all the R&D’’s. It’s like comparingJohn McEnroe vs Carlos Alcaraz or Novak Djokovic. Look at today’s athletes. See how fit they are.
And doped to the gills
The same exact thing was said during Armstrong's hay day silly billy.
you're forgetting the drugs lol. if they're not on drugs, and drugs work so well, where are the non-pro riders that use drugs who can beat their times? they are non-existent. just like how there aren't roided out gym rats outlifting "tested" olympic athletes.
@@cracked229 and you assume people are getting weaker than before? No improvement whatsoever? Only equipment matters?
I wouldn’t he suprised at all if Pogacar is cheating. He certainly rides like he is.
I wouldn’t be surprised if 60% of the Peleton were
Yeah. He wouldn’t be the only one.
One thing that Jimmi didn’t seem to consider is that doping techniques have also had 30 years to progress and get more effective.
It's part of all professional sport's.
@@FreeSpirit-gk7sn no, it is not part of all professional sports, and you perfectly know it.
Jonas can't even go straight on a time trial;to much juice..
I think it's hilarious that anyone thinks professional athletes are natural. You obviously have zero life experience.
Directly ad personam?
You sound smug
If any of the top 10 finishers of the TDF got on a 30 year old push bike from the TDf they would still be quicker than me. I accept that bike tech has moved on. However he has been riding like that all year, even through the Giro, and shows no signs of slowing down or fatigue. I think they are all on something that is border line legal/illegal.
Very true, as an ex Sports Journo, I dont know how Podgcar is doing it, but doing it he is I am in no doubt.. he comes across to me as a complete lab rat tbh...
think of the money involved, changing hands, doing everything they can think of to raise popularity of the sport....the drugs stay way ahead of the tests as well. naivete is a helluva drug.
Yes, but doping aside, the peloton as a whole is faster, and those guys leading up the climb are doing so faster. And so if he is doping so is Jonas, and the rest of the group.
I suspect that the leaders are using something that isn't banned yet. That's why Pog doesn't seem to care about how suspicious his performances look. As far as he and the anti-doping agencies are concerned, he is clean.
Great surprise seeing Ed on.. Big fan of his channel!
I love how the same exact things were said during Armstrong's period. It's the tech (carbon became popular around 1989 in the peloton), training, nutrition etc. Same shit, different era. Lance was tested 500 times and never failed a SINGLE test lol.
thats not actually true, Lance tested positive for roids multiple times at the 99 tour. but he said it was some saddle cream he was using and so got off scot free.
Just like with Armstrong, the UCI is protecting him because he’s the most marketable cyclist in the world right now. Sack the UCI!
Jonas, after hís serious injury also beat Pantani’s record. So is only Pogi who needs to be protected?
@@tamasvarga67 The video was about Pogi, but Jonas definitely on something too
@@JeffSana30 Still, the UCI is not just protecting him as you suggest but protecting the top 10-20-30. Ut’s kind of dishonest and pointless to talk him without mentioning the others. The playing field is level.
I agree with the statement that the playing field is leveled for all racers, but from the opposed perspective from Jimmi's : I assume all the top pros are using something.
In the world of PEDs, new molecules are created every month or so, and testing for them appears a few years later (it is an arm race, every side permanently compete to be on top of the other). If you do not test for a specific product, you won't see it in the blood work.
At this level of the sport, with the widespread following of the event and with the quantity of money invested, every team will try to be on top with every means necessary. It is part of the game. It does not only concern cycling though : olympics, football, rugby, basket, even golfing, etc.
Does it lessen the spectacle quality and the performances realised? IMO no, because no one has an unfair advantage. I think many people unfortunately are 'naive' on this topic.
The real problem here is the lack of understanding of basic biology that you all share. You all believe in a superhuman metabolism that doesn't exist.
Isn't that the idea of the blood passport. They don't have to specifically know what to test for as they track the markers that the doping would directly affect.
Gas chromatography shows every alien molecule present in the blood. The equipment may not be able to name the molecule but a peak will show on the readout.
I would love to see their hematocrit levels throughout the race. It would tell you just about everything you need to know, but unfortunately the UCI will never go down this road.
Just how much does intense training (and racing) even all at sea level, increase one's hematocrit from totally out of condition levels?
Some people have werry optimal genetics for different Sports.. I dont belive pogacar ever have get into any types of doping... Some people can survive and even get faster when the muscles burns... That pain get into most of us... Wil break you down... I am into bodybuilding in old ages and when people think they train to failure they are only doing 75%...as the best.... Some look little bit like szwarzenegger from birth.. Some never reach that level... Maybe whit drugs.. Pogacar is young still and he is in hes prime...its easy to talk about drugs when someone is so good.....lets hope he cycle more years.. Its a joy to see.. Be strong out there 🙏🧙♂️
Everyone keeps talking about all these marginal gains, but NO one can show the math supports these massive changes. We can't rely on random testing, the Armstrong era showed that.....Doping is way ahead of testing. 3 drugs can now stimulate homologous production of EPO, Gene Doping technology is VERY possible with no easy way to test. The Passport system is/was a joke. We just don't trust athletics like we use to. So if we hold onto blood, and fluid samples for 10 years and then have a test that finds them positive are we going to take away results then??? Yes I love watching sports but I just cannot believe its clean.
If Poggy is doping, the worst thing to do, is advertise it, by winning easily
Why do you think he's not racing the Vuelta?
@@bobjackson3735
No appearance money?
Prob receiving a fat pay packet, to race in Canada
@@johnstevens282 World Champs for 26' prep as well, the Montreal course will be the same in 2026 for the World Champs.
the setup 30yrs ago or today doesn't alter the 7W/kg though
During the race (TDF), @riding bike, nowadays Pogacar drink (watter+sugars) about 85.000 kJ more than Pantani. This is like 14 Kg of cooked pasta or 17 kg cooked rice more in 3 weeks.
Panatani rode in ancient times of cycling. Today it's all about science. I believe Pogacar is clean. Nobody from WT teams would allow such thing like massive doping. It would be their end. Sponsors would run away...
😂😂😂😂😂😂
😳😳🙄🙄🙄🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The bikes are better with aero, the nutrition is 500% better. The training is now more about not racing January to October, but training for specific targets and spending months in Mallorca living at sea level snd train at altitude. it's like apples to Igloos not even in the same conversation. 🏁 Look at the overall speed of this Vuelta it's insane.💪🏼🏁🏆
I never watch these extra clips until this one. Screw the comparison to Pantani, view it as an energy function for power. Tadej stated he lost 10kg going into the TdF. That's around 22lbs!!! Yet he has that much power to get up a steep climb that? Even carb loaded while sprinting? IN AN ENERGY DEFICIT. EXTREMELY sus, Jonas as well. Jonas last year looked ill at his body weight.
I am not buying these power records, they're either doing some form of TRT or they're motor doping.
Their bodies at this stage should probably have stopped producing testosterone completely they are in such a catabolic state. To be honest the demands of the tour are so disgusting on the body you must have to dope to some degree to survive it.
He is doped to the eyebrows
....and your IQ is 69!!!🤣🤣 even less!!
30 year old steel bikes are all over ebay & local on line sites. Can pick up an older steel Bianchi for under $1000! LETS SEE THE TEST!
You can believe they are clean and I can still believe in Santa Claus at 35 years old. Also w/kg has NOTHING to do with equiptment. You could pull 7/kg on a beach cruiser single speed.
Nice thumbnail tribute to our channel, thanks guys
Didn’t see this conversation after Jonas’s freak TT last year and Vismas domination of all 3 tours
So L'Equipe is suspicious of Pogacar, but Marchand's extraordinary performances are totally legit.
Mais oui!
Pogacar and Vingegaard and Remco have beaten Pantani Record.
And Jonas did it after a serious injury yet Pogi is the only suspicious one 😂
They were all doping in Pantani's times, adding new tech and training regime can only get you so far, they're all doping nowadays too, just something else.
I am probably being cynical but I just find a hard time to believe that so many athletes have asthma... Now I just don't care about these news and assume that everyone is on something. They are just not officially banned yet.
How do you know that they are all doping nowadays?
@@tomertz1 They are destroying the times set by massively doped up riders!? People saying that's because of a 1kg lighter bike and tyres. Oh yeah and the all important aero handlebars. LOL
In that case, they should also review Jonas's time trial efforts from last year. Even if doping is involved, there's too much money is generated through these wins, and cyclists are expected to secure victories for their teams/sponsors, I would say, rootcase is not only the rider but the team mgmt as well. It's not as if one rider is outbeating everyone else just to set a personal record on a single climb vs pressure to win and do the job.
Why would he risk his 6m EU salary?...the idea of a doping pod on the great champ..is poor form! He has bad days which suggests not.
All professional sports run on gear. They take whatever they take while passing the tests. In this regard, cycling is among the cleanest, though perhaps someone can name one cleaner.
If you don't like it, don't watch. If you need some kid who rides a bike fast (or tosses a ball through a hoop) to be your hero, then really: the problem is you.
Yes, the very idea of massive, Herculean, 'Muricun stick and ball sports 'heroes' being totally 'clean' makes me double over in anaerobic laughter. 🤣
Just look at the output of Watts and you have your answer. That has nothing to do with the more modern equipment and also keep in mind that Pantani was doped when he broke the record….
Who else remembers when the French newspapers were 'attacking' Lance's performances?
I guess they viewed it the ultimate insult that a U.S. rider was so dominant, (especially one without a Gallic surname; i.e.; unlike LeMond), even though they were correct.
I agree with Jimmi's take on this, tho it is reasonable to wonder in light of the dominance of a handful of riders. Still, who knows and the riders are paid entertainers and as we saw with Lance and his crew, the act can go on for years and years until the ticket buyers find out what's been happening backstage. But not the end of the world, what happened on that bus, just rock stars doing rock star stuff for the money and the fame and the game.
Another very poor commentary. First of all, @Hephera is right. Equipment and W/kg has nothing to with each other. Second, and more importantly: we KNOW for a fact that Pantani, Armstrong, Riis, Indurain, Ullrich and Virenque were heavily doped. Now, you think an "assumed" un-doped ("clean") rider is able to pulverize the numbers and times of heavily doped pros??? Just because of equipment?! Armstrong and Pantani and Ullrich all head 6.8kg Carbon bikes already. You guys still awaiting Santa Claus, huh? :-)
I really don't think there is a huge difference in bikes considering we are discussing climbing.
Fishmonger and methylphenidate remco also beat Pantani’s record that day
That speaks volumes
Equipment has an effect on speed but has no effect on power output. At 7W/kg for 40mins Pog is doped to the bones.
I dig the idea of trying it on a yesteryear setup. It’d be the closest way comparing them.
Pogi is on GOS training , that is what makes him better.
3:25 into video. There is a herd of elephants in the room. He is doping with a new/novel drug/method. We are also comparing to just 3-5 years ago, not 30 years ago. This is about w/kg not the bikes. He is doped!
if you ask google how much EPO increases your power, ist about 10%, I don't know if the todays Pro's are doped, but a bike from 25 years back is as least 10 percent slower than a todays bike
Well if you compare the 100 m Olympic final winning time to the 100 m times ONE HUNDRED years ago the difference is .81 of a second , so don't tell me he is not on something
But where's the evidence?
Yeah, bikes are different than 30 years ago but return to your original question - is 7 watts per kilo for 40 minutes realistic?
Just get Pog to go up the climb of controversy on an old Bianchi from that era. I’m sure he’d be ip for the challenge as he seams to take everything in good humour. Things have simply moved on since the dark days with a million little advances making huge time differences. 👍🏼👍🏼
And if Ed can do 7w per kg for 15 minutes Pog can do it for 40. He’s that much better
Human physiology has not changed in 30 years
Yonas said he was making better power than last year. Now Pojicar is checking out on him. Crazy 😂
I would loose my little faith in humanity remaining if Poggie ever tests positive. Really hope he is and keeps clean. Not another Lance the Liarstrong please..
Pog looks like he is climbing on an e-bike, it doesn’t look like he is turning himself inside out. Doesn’t mean he is doping.
He probably is. Mechanical doping is likely rife in the pro peloton with the tech advances and the UCI's woeful approach to testing.
I have got some news for you.... Santa Clause isn't real, there is no tooth fairy or Easter Bunny.
@@petejohn where's your evidence? Rife?!
Yes it does. If not what is your plausible explanation? Marginal gains?
@@petejohnbullshit, ignorant bullshit
Can’t believe people still think riders clean 🤦♂️
If Pog is using a new pharmaceutical, gas chromatigraphy will detect it and a peak will appear on the readout even though mass-spectroscopy may not be able to identify the molecule.
Gains would be in small incriments. Large gains by so many riders do not hold up. We know they were doped when the revords were set. Doing goves you such a huge advantage. Modern equipment and training would be hard pressed to equal the doped climbing records. Smashing the record is not logical.
Yep, all the tech has changed in 30 years, including the doping technology.
Can't wait to see Ed do that. By my estimations (which are fairly conservative and with a well above average knowledge of training, nutrition, tactics and equipment), there is at least a +40w penalty to Pantani vs Pogi's setup. That's roughly 0.6w/kg.
That would explain the speed difference, yes. But not the w/kg. The only factor that I see impacting w/kg is fueling, and of course training methods. But all the tech just makes for higher speeds at similar w/kg. No? Or am I missing something? Not that i think anything nefarious is going on.
@@rayF4rio Pantani's watt/kg isnt known, there wasnt powermeter back then, it is just an estimate from the time and his weight.
There is not a 40 watt advantage on a 8% climb vs Pantani’s setup. On the flat at 45kmhr yes but not on a climb. We are talking about watts per kg here plus any bike weight differences.
3:45 " . . . we WOULD love to think it's so . . ." Well said Emily! Well said! Never say never!
Loving the north east accent 😁
You can and should compare eras:
Pele is GOAT, and the balls were heavier, and the pitch rougher - see where im going?
except from that than might be also differance in road surface on the climb which seems that no one cares and might be substantial factor.
No one is talking about the elephant in the room….. 165mm cranks and narrow handlbars😂😂😊😅
I dope,and I only cycle to work 😊
You put 3 minutes into Pantani... yeah... that's not clean 😂😂😂😂
yeah tech is different then 30 years ago then today, but so are drugs
Round 1. Effort on modern equip. Round 2. Effort on 30 yr old equip. Round 3 Effort on 30 yr old equipment coming off of a 9 month training block with epo, test, and growth.