NOTICE TO VIEWERS Just a quick note about this video. A small section of about 20 seconds of this has been removed. Basically after a few people came forward about one thing I mentioned in the video, I made a mistake by conflating VOR and ADF. My apologies for this mistake. I slipped on the information and got it wrong. I have trimmed a small section out of the video to remove false context to viewers. I don't want to conflate these instruments again so I will make sure to do better going forward. Thanks for your time.
Almost didn’t even notice the “clip” so well done, I think a Malaysia flight 370 video would be really interesting. There’s some really deep dive long videos already out there but I’d love to hear your take on it.
And that's one of the reasons why I like your channel. Because you crosscheck your data, try to be as accurate as possible, and don't hesitate to correct yourself when needed. I would already be on your patreon if I could.
@@bluolds You can see more missing aircrafts here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missing_aircraft (this list is incomplete but it might include most of the planes that went missing)
@@bluolds There are a lot more. 12 planes are missing over New Zealand, all under 10 people on board. One small one over Australia. A few big planes in Alaska. The Varig 707 cargo flight somewhere off Japan. Go to Wikipedia "list of missing ships and planes"
Something else to consider with INS -- it requires a period of alignment when starting the plane. The aircraft has to remain stationary for a period of time on the ground for it to come into alignment, and any rushing of this time or moving before it's done increases the margin of error significantly. If they didn't take the proper alignment time, that would explain why they're off course.
Excellent point. There's another video out there about just this sort of thing happening. I believe it was a commuter type aircraft in South America. The pilots set the INS, but took off before it registered. As a result, they flew into a mountain.
You’re exactly right which is what I was thinking about. Being as I was an INS tech on submarines in US Navy we had two of the miniature INS on board for redundancy. To the point, IF either the ground coordinates were input wrong OR the wrong coordinates for the parking ramp they were on this would throw the system wildly off, this creates what’s known as an excessive Schuler oscillation. If left unchecked it can cause the system to crash at worst and induce errors at the least. If this system was installed and this was happening the crew would have likely never noticed. On submarines because we had two INS units to compare and we also kept an RPD, radial position difference, plot we updated every half hour we could see if the INS’s were agreeing or diverging. If this plane ran anything like old C-130’s it would have only had one this would have kept the crew from seeing any serious threat to navigation. If at some point the aircraft came into range of a dme station and used that to fix the planes position and then input this into the INS with the system potentially being in a schuler period they could have either forced it, which can be done, or it didn’t take and the crew never paid attention to the fact it didn’t. If it was the former vice the later slapping a mechanical gyro like that if it’s having excessive schulers will exacerbate the problem rather than fix it at that point you have to start inputting external fixes into the INS to shrink the oscillation this takes A LOT of time, depending on the extent you could be looking at 36+ hours of fixes. If you try and shut down the system with a schuler in progress the computer will reintroduce it because it will store the last gimbal angles of the system and use that information to bring up the gyro in an attempt to get to navigate faster. Without a constant fix source, say LORAN-C, because of the time we’re talking about GPS wasn’t authorized for navigation back then, it wasn’t authorized by the FAA until 1994 even though Reagan signed the NAVSTAR declaration authorizing GPS for civilian aircraft use in 1983, or because you’re near the poles OMEGA fixes, which honestly if they’d detected an error and were hoping for OMEGA to help you might as well have been shooting sunlines with a sextant and probably would be better off. LORAN-C would have been possibly used by the onboard computer to fix things but you run into a logic loop. For LORAN to be as accurate as possible the receiver uses onboard navigation inputs to accelerate it’s determination of position if you couple this with the potential of an INS to be in an excessive schuler propagation, which a schuler cycles at 84.4 minutes from peak to peak, you’d be feeding junk into a corrupted math model! All that together and you add in a little cross wind action cause you’re near the Gulf Stream and depending on where the jet stream was that day and some good old fashioned troposcatter you’re talking about the plane could have been only a couple kilometers off to possibly a thousand or more!
@@billsheehy1 no worries usually when I see these stories my expertise goes as far as being morbidly curious, when I saw that INS systems could have played a part in this and that how wasn’t exactly known I knew I could shed some light on how potentially it could, and fyi to anyone else who reads these comments, INS do not give you a fixed position they give you an estimated position, and yes there is very much a difference, a fixed position requires an external source telling you where you are where as an INS gives estimates based on a known starting space and then calculating where you are based on measurements of a bodies acceleration in the X, Y, and Z coordinate frames. This is why the alignment and entering argument are so important if the INS is earth referencing then it needs to accurately know within arc seconds which way the center of the earth is. If the INS is space referenced then it has to align within arc seconds of three points that are perfectly 90 degrees offset from each other, Polaris the right ascension of Aries and the celestial equator. This is all so the accelerometers are positioned correctly and they can properly measure acceleration in the correct coordinate frame for which they are to measure. That’s where the Schuler comes in this creates a misalignment in the stable element of which the gyros are supposed to keep level but can’t because they’re wobbling. And if you’re wondering if a schuler is some BS thing I’m making up Google Schuler Oscillation it’s actually a really fascinating trip into physics. It was a theory put forth by a German physicist in the 1850’s when he wondered why no matter how fast a top spins it still wobbles.
I would love to see your perspective on MH370. All the news stories and reports are at least mildly sensationalist. I'd be very interested in your calm and known-fact-oriented approach.
watch the LEMMiNO video on the topic. He goes through all the data available and shares the most common theories whilst being clear that they are largely speculation.
I’ve been searching for a RUclips video about this disappearance since last year. Finally someone uploaded a video about this mystery. Thanks to the owner of this video.
Great video, congrats. A Boeing 707 freighter operated by Varig, with 6 highly experienced crew members on board, also vanished in the air while flying from Tokyo to LAX, in 1979. Not a single piece has been found. Insane.
these videos are always so interesting and well executed, thank you. i haven’t heard of this before, and being peruvian it’s always interesting when these videos involve your country
Always very well researched, superbly measured and informative delivery and the feeling at the end is always 'can't wait for the next one'. I really would love you to cover the Malaysian disappearance but you'll do it when you're ready and you feel it's right I'm sure. Keep up the great output.
Damn it would be awful to know my plane was going to crash into the cold ocean and likely kill all of us, but knowing my family was also onboard would be especially horrifying.
I had never heard of this one, but since it's from the year I was born, I don't think it's that weird. Please make more mysterious disappearances. I love the analysis of what could have happened and the mention of the tech available at the time. Thanks again for the well crafted content!
After this happened there was a lot of talking about it and the version, I always heard was that whatever airline leased that airplane, took delivery of it in Peru, with a crew experienced enough to fly it across the North Atlantic and had INSs installed. However, for the return flight, Peruvian crews positioned with their families to Malta, to fly the 727 back to Peru, this being a highlight of their career and the INSs were removed. Back then the requirements were to have 2 working INS, or similar, before entering MNPS airspace and to have at least 1 HF radio. Even if there had been a possibility to not enter MNPS airspace from the UK to Iceland, it would have been difficult, if not impossible to fly out of MNPS airspace from Iceland to Gander. Inexperienced crews would have had multiple problems to solve 1) flight plans were not very accurate and times between waypoints could vary by many minutes due to unpredicted winds 2) behind every waypoint there would have been (or not), an initial magnetic track or a true track to fly which, becomes very difficult to impossible with the magnetic variations and could only be interpreted by crews trained to fly such routes. So, if the Peruvian crew attempted to cross the Atlantic without proper equipment, or used their HIS heading and compared it to their compass heading which both would have been useless there must have been some panic in the cockpit after a few hours, realizing they didn’t know where they were and thus not having a clue where to turn to and eventually run out of fuel. It would also be of interest to know if they contacted anyone on HF, which would also have been a requirement.
I recall this accident very well as reported in the New York Times. Apparently this flight was attempted non stop between Malta and Gander which would seem to be beyond the range of capability. There was no mention of Milan or London landings. Even if they had stopped in Shannon Ireland that should have been sufficient from a fuel capacity standard. The article made no mention of navigational issues or capabilities. I do not recall if any sighting of wreckage was made by air rescue aircraft sent out from Newfoundland but given shut down of all three engines the rate of descent would have been great.
This incident was new to me. I really appreciate your videos. They are thoughtful and so well made. I would love to see a breakdown of what is currently known about MH370. Cheers!
I never heard this story and I was in college at the time. GPS was barely a thing at the time. Only for military use and only part of the day as the system wasn't fully operational yet.
I wud also, but im not sure there is anything new to go over, there are so many videos about this disappearance, its been beat to death honestly, but ive watched everyone of them 😂 its so interesting bcuz its hard to imagine something so big just vanishing! I hope im still alive when its found, but at this point i dont even think they are looking anymore, with cost being the main hurdle of course.. personally, i dont think it will be until there is some new technology to help out, the stuff we have now dont seem to be the best, most efficient way to do it
@@therealshaft9768 yeah but the company's that have the equipment and resources necessary are the companies that dont like to waste money! It will be found, but probably the same way the titanic was found, with money that is basically leftover from its main mission which was already done and any money that was left was used hopefully find Titanic which they got lucky in doing.. that was also done by the US Navy (if i remember correctly)
I haven't heard of this disappearance. Have you heard about the 2003 Angola 727 disappearance? That's an odd one also. I found the story about it while reading up on this one. Thanks for the excellent and informative videos.
I really love your channel because you are covering the less known cases. Btw I hope one day you will cover the case of agadir air disaster because being the deadliest crash involving a boeing 707, it doesn’t get too much attention. So maybe if you make a video about it, more people will know about it
Great video - I had never heard of this one I absolutely am 100% impressed that you come up with less well known accidents and incidents. May their souls rest in peace 🙏
As always great video! I had no idea about this flight at all. I think a video on MH370 would be more interesting if there is new info about the disappearence, as a lot of people have already discussed it. Perhaps talk about aspects that are usually overlooked? If there is such a thing with that flight XD Also a fun fact! Keflavik is pronounced "Keplavik" or "Keblavik" in Icelandic! Its not a criticism of your pronounciation as I don't expect people to say it "correctly" Its just a fun fact :D
While I would never say 'no' to a video on Malaysian Airlines 370, I would say that it's a topic that's been discussed a lot on this platform. Perhaps most well known is the video by 'Lemmino' which is a couple years old now, but has most of the key details about the flight and its subsequent investigation(s). Unless there's been significant progress in the case since that point (and I don't remember there being any) then I don't feel that a video has to be made on the flight.
I kinda feel this channel should not be doing 370 out of respect for LEMMiNO's excellence. Unless there are new information that you could come up with, there is nothing to add to his simply perfect video.
I want to note it’s possible that it could have disappeared over the ocean. Here’s why: There was a case in 1980s when a continental airlines DC-10 or L-1011 ended up veering a total of 200 miles or so south when it was going to boston. It was on a direct course with Washington when it then almost collided with a 747. They passed under it by about 200 or so feet. This was because of I think a 3 degree fault made by the pilots. It’s likely the crew made a mistake in their navigational abilities for calculations resulting in them being lost and crashing due to fuel starvation
I met one of the pilots who flew the aircraft in Malta, while doing my commercial flight training in Sydney, Australia in 2000. I was told that the company believed the crew encountered stronger than forecast headwinds and simply ran out of fuel. The pilot in question was meant to be on the aircraft but for one reason or the other was not.
Does anyone know whether Reykjavik is far enough north for magnetic/true north to be an issue in the navigation of this plane? I know an issue like this happened in either Canada or Alaska, which resulted in a crash.
Flying from Island to Newfoundland, MN vs TN would definitely a big issue. The INS would not be fooled by this. But did they have an INS? Its hard to believe, but if they really made that mistake their flight path would be close to the magenta arrow.
Thats a really interesting case. Most avgeeks are familiar with the Dan Cooper and the American 727 misteries, however this one was really interesting for me. My personal suggestions for next videos are TAM flight 402 and Lauda Air flight 004. Also, another flight disappearance for y'all avegeeks who read this comment is VARIG flight 967, check it out if you are interested. Cheers
2:57 so this is a small thing but thanks for pronouncing Newfoundland right. I’m from that area of Canada and the amount of time I’ve heard it pronounced wrong is crazy lol. Great video as always
dew it. dew the Malaysian video. In all honesty, I love these relatively unknown incidents, but I am also a huge fan of your thoroughness and presentation of incidents, so another video on already well-tread incidents is always welcome. Especially for something like Malaysian arlines, because it is unsolved, new perspectives and views are eternally interesting.
I would like to see your take on MH370 as your videos are so well done, but I really do appreciate you prioritizing the lesser known mysteries and tragedies of air travel! So, if I had to pick, I'd always go with the latter, but wouldn't complain about an MH370 vid. :)
What is the procedure for setting the initial state of the INS? Presumably, it requires the last/long of its current location. Does it also require, for example, the cardinal direction of the plane (at rest on the ramp)? If there’s something similar to that, initializing the system at high latitude (where North isn’t necessarily North) seems like a potential contributing factor.
If the plane was completely shut down due to fueling then yes there would be an initial set of coordinates input to the INS to spin up. Like I mentioned earlier if they’d input the wrong coordinates to the INS because they made a mistake of identifying which ramp they were located or, and God forbid on this one, they took the nearest coordinates from a terminal vice where they actually were then the system was doomed to fail from the get go. I know from my uncle who was in the Air Force that hangers and terminals on AF bases had huge placards on the inside wall of hangers that had all the figures needed to initialize a planes INS. I’d assume civilian airports would have the same as well. Being I use to work on similar systems on submarines, all modern submarines have these either Ring Laser Gyros or Electrostatic Gyros and given this was set back when it was you’re looking at either Electrostatic (which are aligned to locations in space) or INS (which are aligned by the z-axis pointing to the center of the earth). INS is not just a system it’s also a type of gyro. The first submarine I was stationed has ESGN, Electro Static Gyroscopic Navigator, other older submarines had SINS, Ships Inertial Navigation System, both of these systems required when starting up you tap in by hand via a 12 button keypad the coordinates of the ship, the heading and time of day. Once the system brings the gyros to what is called standby you then take an electronic fix and align the gyro based off this it will also correct system time as well. Any of what I described is messed up, particularly the coordinates for initialize and the heading, the T-gimbal position is what gives you heading, is off, such as heading being 180 out or telling the system you’re in the Southern Hemisphere vice northern your system is gonna be so messed up the thing will never navigate correctly, until you null out the errors, aka lots of electronic fixes, or without a complete shutdown input the factory defaults for the gyro and and correctly input parameters for your location then allow the system to come up again. If all you have is the later option it is usually more advisable for the ground crew to either swap the gyro from the spares hanger or beg another plane for theirs.
Nice vid! Cant wait to see the new vids for this year, also on the space shuttle Challenger disaster video you mentioned that you would possibly do Maritime disasters, any news on that?
Hopefully both this plane and the Malaysian plane are found by the company that is hoping to map the entire ocean bottom by 2030. It would be possible for them to find both wrecks. I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in getting more information. Even learning WHERE the wreckages are would be HUGE
@@DisasterBreakdown Do consider a video on Varig's PP-VLU (Boeing 707) disappearance too, please! If you need some help with translation of materials related to the case, many of which are in Portuguese, I'll be glad to help!
CVR and FDR at the time of the disappearance of the aircraft were all analog which means that the informations were stored in a movie/VHS type tapes, the recording parameters were minimal and the CVR recordings lasted only 30 minutes before recycling, the FDR recycling space was a bit longer but still it would not provide enough informations to draw any kind of conclusions. All of this without considering the effects of the time and the possible damages due to the possible circumstances of the crash in the ocean that could easily destroy or make unreadable the datas on the FDR.
Hi there, I don't think many have covered the tragic story of Austral flight 2553. I knew 2 people who were on board of that flight and sadly died. There are a few other flights in Argentina that I have information about too.
God, the Boeing 727 was such a fantastic looking aircraft! The clean wings, that aggressive swept back slope of the T-tail, the 3 engines clustered in the back; all made for sleek, classic lines. And it’s a timeless modern design, which wouldn’t look out of place in fleets today, barring the lower bypass turbofans.
INS systems were expensive and complicated to maintain, so the INS might have been present but inoperative on OB-1303. Lower cost options in 1990 might have been hyperbolic navigation systems like Decca, Loran-C, or Omega. KAL 007's INS worked properly, but was apparently mis-programmed by the crew. A more relevant example might be KAL 902, on a 1978 polar flight from Paris to Seoul, which made a 180-degree turn, orbiting the North Magnetic Pole and headed back to Europe, and was eventually shot down by the Soviets near Murmansk. The crew apparently didn't notice, and The crew may have failed to update the gyro-compass to correct for rapidly changing magnetic declination when approaching the north magnetic pole. In this case, OB-1303 would have been flying roughly along the 22 degree declination line all the way to Gander, if they were on course. It should also be noted that if they followed the great circle route from Keflavik to Gander, OB-1303 would be bucking 150-200 kph headwinds the whole way, and some nasty weather NW of Newfoundland. They may have diverted to a more southerly course, where the winds were weaker and the weather better, but that would put more stress on their navigation.
I flew as a Crew Me+mber on this actual search out of St. Johns NL on a Canforce CC115 two trips 8 hrs and 9 hours we spotted all kinds of things from dead Whales to hundreds of plastic products and a couple of tarps a blue one and a big brown one but no sign of any Aircraft wreckage at all, that Ocean was a giant garbage dump back in the 90's can't imagine what it is like today, but we tried but had no luck sadly.
What are your thoughts on the new alleged finding from the guy who claims to have detected a radio frequency to detect the plane? Will it turn up anything do you think?
With the INS programmable for multiple coordinates, and with the multiple legs of the long journey, could it be that they selected the coordinates for the stop after Gander in Miami? It would put them in the area highlighted in the video and seems an easy mistake to make.
I’m only now finding out about this disappearance. I clicked on the sinking of the titanic on Wikipedia, then clicked on Cape Race and then found this whole mind boggling story
I love your channel, the videos are bingeworthy And in absolute horror I am demanding you make a video on the malaysian airflight 307 Your style and format is easy to digest!
@@mikhailscicluna4708 No problem. The plane in the thumbnail was exactly the one that vanished. That photo was taken 3 months before the plane’s disappearance.
Just recently found your channel and these videos are great! I’d love to see your perspective on the 26 Jan 1950 disappearance of USAF 2469. I’m also trying to get its story out there as there’s still people looking for it.
There is also a condition called “going homeitis” where the thought of going home causes very small errors that are compounded by confirmation bias. All completely normal. Unfortunately.
There has been science and technology used in the search for MH370 that could be of use in finding the Faucett 727, if it was applied, plus deep sea sonar has come a long way. When mysteries like these linger, I always wonder who doesn't want this found?
The problem is we can’t pinpoint or estimate the exact spot of where that missing Boeing 727 ditched or crashed at. Or should they just search the plane around the area where or close to where the plane flew over without knowing the possible resting place of that plane?
When you said two other aircraft heard the distress call, I couldn't help but think of those pilots later hearing it went missing, what crossed their minds after finding out?
God, imagine having to do this journey on an aircraft like the 727, with about 90 stops along the way, it must've taken ages. People don't know how lucky they are these days where you can fly from any major airport to any other major airport in the World........ non stop. Australia and New Zealand used to be the last 2 major Countries where flights from Europe and The Americas had to stop but now, with the latest generation aircraft from Airbus and Boeing, nothing is impossible.
Airplanes had no fuel gauges at that time. They calculated what was burnt in the last section and took additional fuel amounts, calculated for the next one. Italians during that time had the "Lira Italiana" currency, abbreviated "Lit". Foreign motorists on Italian gas stations often were fooled by the display showing the price of gasoline (the last 3 ciphers taken off) and confused it with "Liters of gasoline" (because the clerks deliberately covered the fuel gauges). Example: One liter of gasoline costed 1500 Lira. Fuel gauge covered. Display "100 Lit" meant: to have taken up 60 Liters (15 Gallons) of gasoline for the price of 100 000 Lira (aka "100 Lit"). The clerk however explained to have filled in 100 Liters and charged you 150 000 Lira. That was a well known game millions of tourists were defrauded with. Could that have happend at airports too?
NOTICE TO VIEWERS
Just a quick note about this video. A small section of about 20 seconds of this has been removed.
Basically after a few people came forward about one thing I mentioned in the video, I made a mistake by conflating VOR and ADF. My apologies for this mistake. I slipped on the information and got it wrong. I have trimmed a small section out of the video to remove false context to viewers. I don't want to conflate these instruments again so I will make sure to do better going forward.
Thanks for your time.
It's all good mate...after all we're all human( I hope)!!!🙏👍✈️
Almost didn’t even notice the “clip” so well done, I think a Malaysia flight 370 video would be really interesting. There’s some really deep dive long videos already out there but I’d love to hear your take on it.
And that's one of the reasons why I like your channel. Because you crosscheck your data, try to be as accurate as possible, and don't hesitate to correct yourself when needed.
I would already be on your patreon if I could.
For April fools you should do the plane crash from breaking bad
These are excellent productions👌🏽👍🏼
Thank you
Never heard about this case before in thousands of Air Crash investigations available online, thanks for uploading.
Same here
I heard only mh370 and the pia 404
Same same
@@bluolds You can see more missing aircrafts here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missing_aircraft (this list is incomplete but it might include most of the planes that went missing)
@@bluolds There are a lot more. 12 planes are missing over New Zealand, all under 10 people on board. One small one over Australia.
A few big planes in Alaska. The Varig 707 cargo flight somewhere off Japan.
Go to Wikipedia "list of missing ships and planes"
Something else to consider with INS -- it requires a period of alignment when starting the plane. The aircraft has to remain stationary for a period of time on the ground for it to come into alignment, and any rushing of this time or moving before it's done increases the margin of error significantly. If they didn't take the proper alignment time, that would explain why they're off course.
Excellent point. There's another video out there about just this sort of thing happening. I believe it was a commuter type aircraft in South America. The pilots set the INS, but took off before it registered. As a result, they flew into a mountain.
Same for irs
You’re exactly right which is what I was thinking about. Being as I was an INS tech on submarines in US Navy we had two of the miniature INS on board for redundancy. To the point, IF either the ground coordinates were input wrong OR the wrong coordinates for the parking ramp they were on this would throw the system wildly off, this creates what’s known as an excessive Schuler oscillation. If left unchecked it can cause the system to crash at worst and induce errors at the least. If this system was installed and this was happening the crew would have likely never noticed. On submarines because we had two INS units to compare and we also kept an RPD, radial position difference, plot we updated every half hour we could see if the INS’s were agreeing or diverging. If this plane ran anything like old C-130’s it would have only had one this would have kept the crew from seeing any serious threat to navigation. If at some point the aircraft came into range of a dme station and used that to fix the planes position and then input this into the INS with the system potentially being in a schuler period they could have either forced it, which can be done, or it didn’t take and the crew never paid attention to the fact it didn’t. If it was the former vice the later slapping a mechanical gyro like that if it’s having excessive schulers will exacerbate the problem rather than fix it at that point you have to start inputting external fixes into the INS to shrink the oscillation this takes A LOT of time, depending on the extent you could be looking at 36+ hours of fixes. If you try and shut down the system with a schuler in progress the computer will reintroduce it because it will store the last gimbal angles of the system and use that information to bring up the gyro in an attempt to get to navigate faster. Without a constant fix source, say LORAN-C, because of the time we’re talking about GPS wasn’t authorized for navigation back then, it wasn’t authorized by the FAA until 1994 even though Reagan signed the NAVSTAR declaration authorizing GPS for civilian aircraft use in 1983, or because you’re near the poles OMEGA fixes, which honestly if they’d detected an error and were hoping for OMEGA to help you might as well have been shooting sunlines with a sextant and probably would be better off. LORAN-C would have been possibly used by the onboard computer to fix things but you run into a logic loop. For LORAN to be as accurate as possible the receiver uses onboard navigation inputs to accelerate it’s determination of position if you couple this with the potential of an INS to be in an excessive schuler propagation, which a schuler cycles at 84.4 minutes from peak to peak, you’d be feeding junk into a corrupted math model! All that together and you add in a little cross wind action cause you’re near the Gulf Stream and depending on where the jet stream was that day and some good old fashioned troposcatter you’re talking about the plane could have been only a couple kilometers off to possibly a thousand or more!
Excellent explanation and thanks for the time you took. Enjoyed the read.
@@billsheehy1 no worries usually when I see these stories my expertise goes as far as being morbidly curious, when I saw that INS systems could have played a part in this and that how wasn’t exactly known I knew I could shed some light on how potentially it could, and fyi to anyone else who reads these comments, INS do not give you a fixed position they give you an estimated position, and yes there is very much a difference, a fixed position requires an external source telling you where you are where as an INS gives estimates based on a known starting space and then calculating where you are based on measurements of a bodies acceleration in the X, Y, and Z coordinate frames. This is why the alignment and entering argument are so important if the INS is earth referencing then it needs to accurately know within arc seconds which way the center of the earth is. If the INS is space referenced then it has to align within arc seconds of three points that are perfectly 90 degrees offset from each other, Polaris the right ascension of Aries and the celestial equator. This is all so the accelerometers are positioned correctly and they can properly measure acceleration in the correct coordinate frame for which they are to measure. That’s where the Schuler comes in this creates a misalignment in the stable element of which the gyros are supposed to keep level but can’t because they’re wobbling. And if you’re wondering if a schuler is some BS thing I’m making up Google Schuler Oscillation it’s actually a really fascinating trip into physics. It was a theory put forth by a German physicist in the 1850’s when he wondered why no matter how fast a top spins it still wobbles.
I would love to see your perspective on MH370. All the news stories and reports are at least mildly sensationalist. I'd be very interested in your calm and known-fact-oriented approach.
I would be very interested in this too. Thank you.
Pilot suicide
ruclips.net/video/kd2KEHvK-q8/видео.html check this MH370 video analysis, it’s pretty amazing IMO
ok ill poo it out
watch the LEMMiNO video on the topic. He goes through all the data available and shares the most common theories whilst being clear that they are largely speculation.
Thank you for bringing attention to these lesser-known aircraft incidents/accidents which I think more pilots/people should know about.
At this point ,You could literally make up a plane investigation and I would still watch it 😂 😂
Me too!!!🙏✈️😷
For April fools he should do the plane crash from breaking bad, it would be good bait until the reveal
@@brownpower9229more like she
@@brownpower9229I always wonder what those 2 aircraft looked like before they collided
You out did yourself on this one. A true aviation mystery that I have never seen on any other channel. Thanks for the outstanding work!
Yeah, and it was treated with respect and restraint. No conspiracy theories or supposed certainty about the cause. Well done.
I’ve been searching for a RUclips video about this disappearance since last year. Finally someone uploaded a video about this mystery. Thanks to the owner of this video.
Great video, congrats. A Boeing 707 freighter operated by Varig, with 6 highly experienced crew members on board, also vanished in the air while flying from Tokyo to LAX, in 1979. Not a single piece has been found. Insane.
it was 200 miles into the Pacific so i don't think it will ever be found
these videos are always so interesting and well executed, thank you. i haven’t heard of this before, and being peruvian it’s always interesting when these videos involve your country
Always very well researched, superbly measured and informative delivery and the feeling at the end is always 'can't wait for the next one'. I really would love you to cover the Malaysian disappearance but you'll do it when you're ready and you feel it's right I'm sure. Keep up the great output.
Damn it would be awful to know my plane was going to crash into the cold ocean and likely kill all of us, but knowing my family was also onboard would be especially horrifying.
I had never heard of this one, but since it's from the year I was born, I don't think it's that weird. Please make more mysterious disappearances. I love the analysis of what could have happened and the mention of the tech available at the time.
Thanks again for the well crafted content!
Apologies for the late reply, I do have a few more notable aviation mysteries to cover so I'll make sure to get round to them at some point!
@@DisasterBreakdown Thanks in advance!
This looks really interesting, I love your videos dude!
After this happened there was a lot of talking about it and the version, I always heard was that whatever airline leased that airplane, took delivery of it in Peru, with a crew experienced enough to fly it across the North Atlantic and had INSs installed.
However, for the return flight, Peruvian crews positioned with their families to Malta, to fly the 727 back to Peru, this being a highlight of their career and the INSs were removed.
Back then the requirements were to have 2 working INS, or similar, before entering MNPS airspace and to have at least 1 HF radio.
Even if there had been a possibility to not enter MNPS airspace from the UK to Iceland, it would have been difficult, if not impossible to fly out of MNPS airspace from Iceland to Gander.
Inexperienced crews would have had multiple problems to solve
1) flight plans were not very accurate and times between waypoints could vary by many minutes due to unpredicted winds
2) behind every waypoint there would have been (or not), an initial magnetic track or a true track to fly which, becomes very difficult to impossible with the magnetic variations and could only be interpreted by crews trained to fly such routes.
So, if the Peruvian crew attempted to cross the Atlantic without proper equipment, or used their HIS heading and compared it to their compass heading which both would have been useless there must have been some panic in the cockpit after a few hours, realizing they didn’t know where they were and thus not having a clue where to turn to and eventually run out of fuel.
It would also be of interest to know if they contacted anyone on HF, which would also have been a requirement.
Given that they were to be using HF if the troposcater was high enough and they were going off magnetic they may never have known they were in a bind!
I recall this accident very well as reported in the New York Times. Apparently this flight was attempted non stop between Malta and Gander which would seem to be beyond the range of capability. There was no mention of Milan or London landings. Even if they had stopped in Shannon Ireland that should have been sufficient from a fuel capacity standard. The article made no mention of navigational issues or capabilities. I do not recall if any sighting of wreckage was made by air rescue aircraft sent out from Newfoundland but given shut down of all three engines the rate of descent would have been great.
If you watched the video, you know this plane was not flying nonstop from Malta to Gander.
It stopped in Iceland to refuel.
This incident was new to me. I really appreciate your videos. They are thoughtful and so well made. I would love to see a breakdown of what is currently known about MH370. Cheers!
Diego Garcia. That's where it ended up.
As a Newfoundlander this is so interesting, I've never heard of this incident! Great video as always!
Same here. It’s also nice to hear that he pronounced Newfoundland correctly
Thank you so much for your hard work 💚
Hell yeah another breakdown - you and Plainly Difficult always seem to upload on the exact same day, so I knew yours was coming lol
On the disaster scale...
Was just rewatching your older videos when I got this notif, excited for this!
I never heard this story and I was in college at the time. GPS was barely a thing at the time. Only for military use and only part of the day as the system wasn't fully operational yet.
Very informative. Hadn't heard of this before. Thank you.
Well documented thanks for such a great insight 👌
I would definitely be interested in a video on the Malaysian flight that disappeared in relatively recent history
I wud also, but im not sure there is anything new to go over, there are so many videos about this disappearance, its been beat to death honestly, but ive watched everyone of them 😂 its so interesting bcuz its hard to imagine something so big just vanishing!
I hope im still alive when its found, but at this point i dont even think they are looking anymore, with cost being the main hurdle of course.. personally, i dont think it will be until there is some new technology to help out, the stuff we have now dont seem to be the best, most efficient way to do it
@@1974lionsfan stilll a multi million $ reward for anyone who finds it, so I am sure someone is still looking just not countries or plane companies
@@therealshaft9768 yeah but the company's that have the equipment and resources necessary are the companies that dont like to waste money! It will be found, but probably the same way the titanic was found, with money that is basically leftover from its main mission which was already done and any money that was left was used hopefully find Titanic which they got lucky in doing.. that was also done by the US Navy (if i remember correctly)
@@therealshaft9768The multi million reward doesn't cover the cost of finding it.
And low budget Joe without any equipment can't find it.
I haven't heard of this disappearance. Have you heard about the 2003 Angola 727 disappearance? That's an odd one also. I found the story about it while reading up on this one. Thanks for the excellent and informative videos.
This angolan plane more than likely ended up being pulled to bits sold to the most offering bidder.
I really love your channel because you are covering the less known cases. Btw I hope one day you will cover the case of agadir air disaster because being the deadliest crash involving a boeing 707, it doesn’t get too much attention. So maybe if you make a video about it, more people will know about it
Great vid as usual. You should look into the crash of Iberia Flight 610, another Boeing 727
Great video - I had never heard of this one I absolutely am 100% impressed that you come up with less well known accidents and incidents. May their souls rest in peace 🙏
As some have mentioned I've never heard of this case so Ty for informing us.
I always look forward to saturdays specifically for your videos
Thanks for your clear articulation and the disclaimer in your channel “about” information..
And I like your voice also. 👌
Great video as usual...thank you for uploading.
Thank you for uploading this.
u welcome
As always great video! I had no idea about this flight at all.
I think a video on MH370 would be more interesting if there is new info about the disappearence, as a lot of people have already discussed it. Perhaps talk about aspects that are usually overlooked? If there is such a thing with that flight XD
Also a fun fact! Keflavik is pronounced "Keplavik" or "Keblavik" in Icelandic! Its not a criticism of your pronounciation as I don't expect people to say it "correctly" Its just a fun fact :D
Just discovered this channel. Hell yeah dude!!!
great video, as always!
Great video as usual 🔥
While I would never say 'no' to a video on Malaysian Airlines 370, I would say that it's a topic that's been discussed a lot on this platform. Perhaps most well known is the video by 'Lemmino' which is a couple years old now, but has most of the key details about the flight and its subsequent investigation(s). Unless there's been significant progress in the case since that point (and I don't remember there being any) then I don't feel that a video has to be made on the flight.
I’m down for the Malaysian Flight 370 disappearances, Lemino has a good video on it also so having both you and him do a video on it, masterpiece
I kinda feel this channel should not be doing 370 out of respect for LEMMiNO's excellence. Unless there are new information that you could come up with, there is nothing to add to his simply perfect video.
@@ThePuschkin1986 That's a fair point, I agree with you
I'd be interested in more videos about vanishing planes
I want to note it’s possible that it could have disappeared over the ocean. Here’s why:
There was a case in 1980s when a continental airlines DC-10 or L-1011 ended up veering a total of 200 miles or so south when it was going to boston. It was on a direct course with Washington when it then almost collided with a 747. They passed under it by about 200 or so feet. This was because of I think a 3 degree fault made by the pilots. It’s likely the crew made a mistake in their navigational abilities for calculations resulting in them being lost and crashing due to fuel starvation
Waiting for this video thank you . From down Under
I met one of the pilots who flew the aircraft in Malta, while doing my commercial flight training in Sydney, Australia in 2000. I was told that the company believed the crew encountered stronger than forecast headwinds and simply ran out of fuel. The pilot in question was meant to be on the aircraft but for one reason or the other was not.
Does anyone know whether Reykjavik is far enough north for magnetic/true north to be an issue in the navigation of this plane? I know an issue like this happened in either Canada or Alaska, which resulted in a crash.
Flying from Island to Newfoundland, MN vs TN would definitely a big issue. The INS would not be fooled by this. But did they have an INS?
Its hard to believe, but if they really made that mistake their flight path would be close to the magenta arrow.
Yay a new video I can watch while I'm @ work. :)
Thats a really interesting case. Most avgeeks are familiar with the Dan Cooper and the American 727 misteries, however this one was really interesting for me. My personal suggestions for next videos are TAM flight 402 and Lauda Air flight 004. Also, another flight disappearance for y'all avegeeks who read this comment is VARIG flight 967, check it out if you are interested. Cheers
2:57 so this is a small thing but thanks for pronouncing Newfoundland right. I’m from that area of Canada and the amount of time I’ve heard it pronounced wrong is crazy lol. Great video as always
dew it. dew the Malaysian video.
In all honesty, I love these relatively unknown incidents, but I am also a huge fan of your thoroughness and presentation of incidents, so another video on already well-tread incidents is always welcome. Especially for something like Malaysian arlines, because it is unsolved, new perspectives and views are eternally interesting.
yes an update on the missing Malaysian plane would be interesting
I would like to see your take on MH370 as your videos are so well done, but I really do appreciate you prioritizing the lesser known mysteries and tragedies of air travel! So, if I had to pick, I'd always go with the latter, but wouldn't complain about an MH370 vid. :)
I’m Maltese 🇲🇹 and never heard about this Air Malta 🇲🇹 flight ✈️!
What is the procedure for setting the initial state of the INS? Presumably, it requires the last/long of its current location. Does it also require, for example, the cardinal direction of the plane (at rest on the ramp)? If there’s something similar to that, initializing the system at high latitude (where North isn’t necessarily North) seems like a potential contributing factor.
If the plane was completely shut down due to fueling then yes there would be an initial set of coordinates input to the INS to spin up. Like I mentioned earlier if they’d input the wrong coordinates to the INS because they made a mistake of identifying which ramp they were located or, and God forbid on this one, they took the nearest coordinates from a terminal vice where they actually were then the system was doomed to fail from the get go. I know from my uncle who was in the Air Force that hangers and terminals on AF bases had huge placards on the inside wall of hangers that had all the figures needed to initialize a planes INS. I’d assume civilian airports would have the same as well. Being I use to work on similar systems on submarines, all modern submarines have these either Ring Laser Gyros or Electrostatic Gyros and given this was set back when it was you’re looking at either Electrostatic (which are aligned to locations in space) or INS (which are aligned by the z-axis pointing to the center of the earth). INS is not just a system it’s also a type of gyro. The first submarine I was stationed has ESGN, Electro Static Gyroscopic Navigator, other older submarines had SINS, Ships Inertial Navigation System, both of these systems required when starting up you tap in by hand via a 12 button keypad the coordinates of the ship, the heading and time of day. Once the system brings the gyros to what is called standby you then take an electronic fix and align the gyro based off this it will also correct system time as well. Any of what I described is messed up, particularly the coordinates for initialize and the heading, the T-gimbal position is what gives you heading, is off, such as heading being 180 out or telling the system you’re in the Southern Hemisphere vice northern your system is gonna be so messed up the thing will never navigate correctly, until you null out the errors, aka lots of electronic fixes, or without a complete shutdown input the factory defaults for the gyro and and correctly input parameters for your location then allow the system to come up again. If all you have is the later option it is usually more advisable for the ground crew to either swap the gyro from the spares hanger or beg another plane for theirs.
Good morning DB! Thanks for another vid. A disappearance that isn't MH370 is always fascinating. 💕
ANOTHER new one to me - MORE! This channel should have MORE subscribers.
This fascinates me more than almost any other disappearance ever and I don't know why.
Nice vid! Cant wait to see the new vids for this year, also on the space shuttle Challenger disaster video you mentioned that you would possibly do Maritime disasters, any news on that?
Thanks!
Hopefully both this plane and the Malaysian plane are found by the company that is hoping to map the entire ocean bottom by 2030. It would be possible for them to find both wrecks. I, and I'm sure many others, would be very interested in getting more information. Even learning WHERE the wreckages are would be HUGE
Great video great work. Yes the flight 370
New upload! I really need to stop binge watching these videos for my own sake…
Can you please make a video about the 2003 Angola B727 disappearance?
Yes. It's a video that's on my radar. Thanks
@@DisasterBreakdown Do consider a video on Varig's PP-VLU (Boeing 707) disappearance too, please! If you need some help with translation of materials related to the case, many of which are in Portuguese, I'll be glad to help!
CVR and FDR at the time of the disappearance of the aircraft were all analog which means that the informations were stored in a movie/VHS type tapes, the recording parameters were minimal and the CVR recordings lasted only 30 minutes before recycling, the FDR recycling space was a bit longer but still it would not provide enough informations to draw any kind of conclusions. All of this without considering the effects of the time and the possible damages due to the possible circumstances of the crash in the ocean that could easily destroy or make unreadable the datas on the FDR.
Hi there, I don't think many have covered the tragic story of Austral flight 2553. I knew 2 people who were on board of that flight and sadly died. There are a few other flights in Argentina that I have information about too.
Please do Varig 967 soon. I am intrigued by plane disappearences
God, the Boeing 727 was such a fantastic looking aircraft! The clean wings, that aggressive swept back slope of the T-tail, the 3 engines clustered in the back; all made for sleek, classic lines. And it’s a timeless modern design, which wouldn’t look out of place in fleets today, barring the lower bypass turbofans.
I already cant wait for a new video! I would Love if you cover the malaysian airline that went missing. there is so much missinformation about it
What software do you use for your simulation or CGI?
Love your videos! You should do eastern airlines flight 212
I'm surprised they didn't fly great circle route. Malta,Tenerife, Cape Verde, Cayenne, Lima. The Atlantic crossing is only 3500km at that point.
Would love to see a video on the Malaysian flight
4:10 "Did anyone hear it?" Of course. How else would we know about it?
a video on malaysia 370 is a good idea! i was actually wondering when one would be released haha
2:26 bad sign right there 😨
Could you please cover the LAPA accident in Buenos Aires? Thank you and keep up the amazing work!
INS systems were expensive and complicated to maintain, so the INS might have been present but inoperative on OB-1303. Lower cost options in 1990 might have been hyperbolic navigation systems like Decca, Loran-C, or Omega. KAL 007's INS worked properly, but was apparently mis-programmed by the crew. A more relevant example might be KAL 902, on a 1978 polar flight from Paris to Seoul, which made a 180-degree turn, orbiting the North Magnetic Pole and headed back to Europe, and was eventually shot down by the Soviets near Murmansk. The crew apparently didn't notice, and The crew may have failed to update the gyro-compass to correct for rapidly changing magnetic declination when approaching the north magnetic pole. In this case, OB-1303 would have been flying roughly along the 22 degree declination line all the way to Gander, if they were on course. It should also be noted that if they followed the great circle route from Keflavik to Gander, OB-1303 would be bucking 150-200 kph headwinds the whole way, and some nasty weather NW of Newfoundland. They may have diverted to a more southerly course, where the winds were weaker and the weather better, but that would put more stress on their navigation.
While living in Peru, Faucett was the best and had very good airplanes, even the airline was the launch of the BAC One Eleven 475.
Please make video on Malaysian flight 370. Would love to know what info has transpired since it's disappearance. Thank you for all your good work 🇨🇦
Ive read about this case a few years ago, its a shame it has been mostly forgotten
I flew as a Crew Me+mber on this actual search out of St. Johns NL on a Canforce CC115 two trips 8 hrs and 9 hours we spotted all kinds of things from dead Whales to hundreds of plastic products and a couple of tarps a blue one and a big brown one but no sign of any Aircraft wreckage at all, that Ocean was a giant garbage dump back in the 90's can't imagine what it is like today, but we tried but had no luck sadly.
What are your thoughts on the new alleged finding from the guy who claims to have detected a radio frequency to detect the plane? Will it turn up anything do you think?
With the INS programmable for multiple coordinates, and with the multiple legs of the long journey, could it be that they selected the coordinates for the stop after Gander in Miami? It would put them in the area highlighted in the video and seems an easy mistake to make.
I’m only now finding out about this disappearance. I clicked on the sinking of the titanic on Wikipedia, then clicked on Cape Race and then found this whole mind boggling story
Good video. You should do one on MH 370.
11:40 LOL, cant say Im surprised flight 404 was not found 🤣
I love your channel, the videos are bingeworthy
And in absolute horror I am demanding you make a video on the malaysian airflight 307
Your style and format is easy to digest!
New videoo, lets gooo!
Was the aircraft in the Air Malta livery when it crashed ?
Yeah it was
@@sunnyfon9065 Thanks
@@mikhailscicluna4708 No problem. The plane in the thumbnail was exactly the one that vanished. That photo was taken 3 months before the plane’s disappearance.
Just recently found your channel and these videos are great! I’d love to see your perspective on the 26 Jan 1950 disappearance of USAF 2469. I’m also trying to get its story out there as there’s still people looking for it.
Yes pls. Malaysia 370 video!
I love you video this is the best video in the world
September 11th is a bad day to do anything.😳
Please do a video on the American Airlines 727 that got stolen in Angola.
Lemmino already made a video detailing about The Disappearance of Flight 370 and if you want to go ahead and do it Howie I'm all up for it
Oh wow! So this is still missing in 2022?? 😳 That’s so sad ☹️ too bad for those people
I wonder if with the INS they skipped Gander, Miami and were flying in a Lima direction from Reykjavik?
There is also a condition called “going homeitis” where the thought of going home causes very small errors that are compounded by confirmation bias. All completely normal. Unfortunately.
There has been science and technology used in the search for MH370 that could be of use in finding the Faucett 727, if it was applied, plus deep sea sonar has come a long way. When mysteries like these linger, I always wonder who doesn't want this found?
The problem is we can’t pinpoint or estimate the exact spot of where that missing Boeing 727 ditched or crashed at. Or should they just search the plane around the area where or close to where the plane flew over without knowing the possible resting place of that plane?
When you said two other aircraft heard the distress call, I couldn't help but think of those pilots later hearing it went missing, what crossed their minds after finding out?
God, imagine having to do this journey on an aircraft like the 727, with about 90 stops along the way, it must've taken ages.
People don't know how lucky they are these days where you can fly from any major airport to any other major airport in the World........ non stop. Australia and New Zealand used to be the last 2 major Countries where flights from Europe and The Americas had to stop but now, with the latest generation aircraft from Airbus and Boeing, nothing is impossible.
Airplanes had no fuel gauges at that time. They calculated what was burnt in the last section and took additional fuel amounts, calculated for the next one. Italians during that time had the "Lira Italiana" currency, abbreviated "Lit". Foreign motorists on Italian gas stations often were fooled by the display showing the price of gasoline (the last 3 ciphers taken off) and confused it with "Liters of gasoline" (because the clerks deliberately covered the fuel gauges). Example: One liter of gasoline costed 1500 Lira. Fuel gauge covered. Display "100 Lit" meant: to have taken up 60 Liters (15 Gallons) of gasoline for the price of 100 000 Lira (aka "100 Lit"). The clerk however explained to have filled in 100 Liters and charged you 150 000 Lira. That was a well known game millions of tourists were defrauded with. Could that have happend at airports too?
I'm surprised it's been this long and you haven't covered Malaysian yet. But yes man definitely talk about it.