I didn’t mention in the video, but no matter what you do or what system you use, use bags! They are such an important step in keeping your vac’s filter clean.
I would if it didn’t absolutely kill my CFM. That was also something you didn’t mention in the video… which model of ridgid vac was that? How many CFM was it rated at? And how does that change when using a bag? Or a higher rated filter?
I was just going to mention that The on,y reason I felt one needed a cyclone type system, was to not plug up your filter, at least not as fast. The cost of bags never came up in my mind. I thought it’s the reason you have a shop vac. No bags needed?
@@SylvainBellerose The bag will keep dust from getting to the filter, and the filter is the last step in making sure fine dust doesn't get out into the air. If you don't use a bag, just expect to need to clean your filter more frequently.
@@lightspeedguru Its either the 12 or 14 gallon version. It advertised more CFM than the Festool, more than 150 but can't remember the exact number. Any impedance placed between the motor and the hose will alter CFM, and the more it filters the more effect. What effect that has exactly I'm not sure. I do not notice a difference with my Festool vacs with a bag and without, and the bags keep the filters immaculate.
@@garagedwellersww I just did the craziest thing in my shop. I removed the filter and bag from my rigid shop vac entirely and just let it blow out the output then connected a 2 1/2 inch hose between the output of the shop vac and the 4 inch input of my dust collector. Now the dust goes from my tool through my cyclone through the shop vac and into my 4 inch desk collector. I don’t have to turn on the motor on my 4 inch dust collector. It just acts as a big filter so far the results have been amazing and I highly recommend it.
You just saved me a lot of money! If the new Harbor Freight HERCULES 12 Gallon OSHA-Compliant Dust Extractor ever darkens your doorway, please put that thing head-to-head with the Festool dust extractor. At less than 1/2 the price, it would make an interesting comparison.
Good comparison, and the results were as expected. Oneida knows what they're doing with their cyclones. You nailed it with the festool; you only get it if you need the portability and integration with festool's ecosystem. I use a dust deputy 2.5 in my workshop, but will be adding a lowpro to my home vac setup soon. Either way, any cyclone is better than no cyclone at all. You noticed it with your ct26+cyclone; you can go literal years without changing bags. Not only that, but you won't lose suction as the container fills up, which will happen is using a bag alone, and the filter stays very clean. In regards to whether or not someone should get a separator, I think everyone should invest in one. Even if it's one of the cheap aliexpress clones. You made a case for the weekend DIYers to not really need one, but if they have a simple cyclone setup, they don't have to worry about changing bags or filters, they can just focus on the projects that they already have limited time to work on. Cyclones are cheap enough that they should be a no-brainer choice for anyone making sawdust.
Good points. The only thing I would say is go with an Oneida. If you have a cheaper vac that doesn’t perform quite as well, and then you add a cyclone that cuts performance, now you have less suction at the tool, more dust in the air, more dust on the work surface that may effect sanding performance, etc. Knowing the Oneida had the least impact on performance is important I think. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Couple of comments: First, I really liked the demonstration, and from a practical sense the way you approached the evaluation. I've seen similar, but this one struck home with me. Second, the performance is an important issue from a health perspective as well. Which you did not mention, but is well worth mentioning. I was really impressed by your miter saw dust collection. I have an old Delta, it works really well, but zero dust collection. The Festool approach seems to work great on your saw. And finally, I subscribed to your channel based on this video. Thanks!
Thanks for the comments! Helath is for sure important. I talk more about health in my Oneida V 3000 Dust collector video, but that's one of the big reasons a drop in performance matters - less suction means less fine dust collected at the tool, and thus more in the air.
An interesting comparison. I use a Fine Turbo II vacuum with the Oneida Dust Deputy in my home shop. Besides normal woodworking sawdust, I do wood turning which produces massive amounts of large and small chips. The bulk of these are shoveled into the trash. The rest plus general cleaning around the shop uses the Fine/Dust Deputy combination. The cyclone separator works great on separating the chips and the fine dust goes into a paper bag in the Fine vacuum. This is so effective, I haven't needed to change the paper bag for over five years. I bought the Dust Deputy to prevent the expensive paper bags from quickly filling up and I am very pleased with the results this gives me.
One of the few review videos I've seen with actual content with no hysterics or drama. Excellent! The only thing missing is measuring particulate matter in the air while creating dust. Air flow, dust picked up, etc, do not indicated the efficacy of the products. But excellent video.
Yes, I have a particulate meter but didn’t think to use it. I do know from my hands on use of all three that the air flow results were the same as airborne particulates - Oneida beat the other two, and Festool’s was the worst of the three
HEPA filter + bags saves your lungs (COPD and Cancer), good dust separation (Oneida) saves your bag + filter. As a professional woodworker a bag last me 18 months for it to be 3/4 full and the HEPA filter never has to be clean and certainly not change.
Absolutely - I talk more about the health ramifications of good dust collection in my Oneida V3000 video. I have dust separators for the same reason - I would otherwise be going through a ton of consumables.
I have purchased “THE MULLET CYCLONE”. I love it About $120.00. It’s on 4 wheels and rolls with my Rigid 16 gal. I have 2 rigid vac , one permanently stays with my powermatic table saw & I unattached mullet to roll with my around shop Ridgid. Woodworkers Guild tested & gave an approval . But no comparison to Oneida.
Mullet doesn’t seem to deter efficiency of my 16 gal vac. I keep one ridged at my powermatic table saw with the mullet. I have another ridged vac and slide mullet away from Ridgid/Powermatic setup and d roll mullet to my 2nd Ridgid . I plan on buying a 2nd mullet
One of the things I think a separator must help with (logically, but I have not tested it), is that if that much less fine dust is making it to the filter, than that much fine dust can't slip through the filter, improving air quality. If the filter is 99% percent efficient, if 90% less dust goes to it, then it becomes 99.9% efficient.
Yep, with the Oneida way less gets to the filter and it’s really efficient. However, if performance is impacted significantly, then less dust gets sucked up at the tool and you get more fine dust in the air.
It doesn’t work like that. The really fine dust is the most problematic for your health. A cyclone works well for larger particles, but not for the harmful fine dust. This is why you need a good filter in the vacuum. Even if a cyclone were to separate 99% of the dust, you would still need the filter for health protection, because it’s that remaining 1% that is truly dangerous. Pre-separation doesn’t improve filtration but helps prevent the filter from clogging quickly. A cyclone doesn’t really help with toxic saw dust, nor does it improve the air quality that gets out after the filter.
Good video, I already have the larger Oneida separator on a 2hp system and I’ve never seen any dust in the bag below the filter, that’s after about 6 months of use on table saw, miter, planer, jointer and general vacuuming of shop for a weekend warrior. I do use my shop vac for sanding and was trying to decide between the dust stopper and the new Oneida, you’ve confirmed for me which one. I also learned from you to use a bag, thanks for such an informative video.
Thank you for making this video. It's very insightful. Like you said, I will never use a shop vac without a bag. It makes a huge difference. All you have to do is remove the bag, toss it out & and replace it. The vac stays pretty clean. I actually bought a dust topper a year ago. But I haven't even used it. 😅 Now im thinking it was just a waste of money.
It does ok - I used dust deputies for a couple years. But the Oneida stuff is a step up for sure. And you’re right, the bag is crucial! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
I mounted a Veritas cyclone lid on a surplus food barrel that sits on a roller base and holds about 40 gallons on dust and chips. It connects to my Festool dust extractor and my planer, band saw, router, or drill press via 2.5” hose one at a time. I empty the barrel several times a year. My table saw has a vacuum and gravity fed dust bin underneath it.
Thank you for sharing this was very informative and it helped me to see what works well and not so much. I have a craftsman shop vac it my third shop vac and I have the rockler dust deputy separator on it. It works pretty well. I’ve been doing woodworking since 2015 I am now a full time woodworker. I’ll be upgrading as the jobs come in
Great comparison! After watching a RUclips video ,I did what the guy suggested and wrapped the vac filter with a couple of wraps of paper towel and a wrap of window screening ,with a bungee cord to hold it together. I have been using this method for over a year and when I notice a loss in suction, I open the the vac to find the paper towel coated with a thick layer of fine dust. The filter still looks brand new! Using this cheap and easy fix and one of your set-ups would work great for years!
Nice video! As a hobbyist / semi-professional myself, I have both the CT26 and the older Ridged. Festool claims 137 CFM and 98 bars of water whereas Rigid claims 160 (I think). If you look at the ASTM standard (I’m a geek) CFM is measured at the end of a 2” hose. Not all manufacturers will use the ASTM standard and their CFM rating is at the inlet. Probably why you are seeing a difference between the two in your own measurements.
I just use my rigid shop vac with a hepa filter and hepa bag it's the best bang for your buck. I sanded my hardwood floors in my house and only used a couple bags with no dust in my house it was awesome.
Thanks for your review. It was very much appreciated. It really helped me determine what I am going to do. I think I will start with bags and see how much I spend in a year then go from there.
That's what I was going to suggest. I've been using an original ClearVue CV06 for 18 years now and still like it -- but, that newer Oneida would be nice with its lower overall height.
Dust collection Rite of Passage: 1. Oneida tower cyclone with Ridgid 14gal 6HP shop vac on homemade cart - check - utility use between contractor table saw, benchtop band saw, benchtop drill press 2. original Dusttopper with Ridgid 16gal 6hp as a Miter Saw cart - check - dedicated vac with lower profile dust collection; cart from Fix This Build That plan 3. new Dusttopper Pro with Ridgid 4gal 6hp as benchtop Drum Sander cart - check - maintain horsepower with smaller footprint vac and low profile Dusttopper Pro in similar F.T.B.T. homemade cart Woodshop area shared in two car garage Other tips: a. Dusttopper Pro suggested static discharge idea, helps a bit overall. Went back and grounded the Oneida and original Dusttopper later b. Section of pantyhose over vac filter to assist in cleaning if no bags used c. Rockler expandable flex hose can reach farther than the supplied vac hose, or, cut pieces to go between filters and vac in cart setups Your comparison methods were spot on. Camera work done well to show dust collection results. As a weekend woodworker turning in to everyday hobbyist, collecting good ideas like this is very much appreciated.😀
I am all cordless (combination of ridgid and Flexvolt) In my case I have the Flexvolt 60v extractor (also tstak compatible like the festool is with sustainers) and I made a separator with a filter out of another tstak 6" tall box. Works great in the high end homes like you said for portability. All my storage and vac match and are compatible..
The thing that no one seems to talk about is the need for different duct collection strategies for different tools. Smaller dust ports work well with high static pressure, low CFM vacs but machines with larger, 4” dust ports require high CFM dust collectors. And you can’t use one system for both! … or can you? I’d love to see a review of the dust cobra for this purpose so maybe Oneida will send you one of them? ;-)
I have the original Oneida tower and the Mullet Cyclone, I notice a bigger drop in performance with the Mullet (no data to back that up) then the Oneida tower. I use them on tools that generate moderate fine dust and where I can store the setup out of the way (miter saw and table saw). On my lathe I do not have one since I need max performance and can easily change the bags out. Being a semi professional turner I can justify the cost of bags/filters since I am selling items made on the lathe.
Just bought the dust deputy with my 4 gallon ridgid vac. For just being a hobbyist this works for me but I would like to have a bigger unit and just run lines for the convenience
Great video, thanks. Would be interesting to just measure the weight of what is collected in the separator. Like have 500g of sawdust, suck it up, and if you weigh what comes out of the separator as 490g, then you know 10g remain stuck to the separator walls, the vac walls and the vac filter. It obviously doesn't tell you how much is getting into the filter, but you'd have a pretty good idea of how effective the separator is.
A note on the consumables you priced for the rigid: those aren’t the hepa-rated bags/filters, and the festool ones are. The green hepa-rated bag and filter really kill the flow of the rigid vac in my experience.
Even as a weekend warrior: if you have a jointer/planer, you NEED an extractor. Those two tools generate so much waste you'll probably be emptying your 5gal bucket before you're even done with that operation. I ended up getting Rockler's dust extractor for more extraction volume.
Very true, I would agree that for big chip producers a two stage system is key. However, none of these are made for jointers/planers, nor are shop vacs/festool vacs designed for jointer planer use. Dust extractors for high volume chip producing machines need high CFM/low pressure, a rigid or festool vac is low CFM/high pressure and designed for smaller applications like sanding, track saws, miter saws, etc. The three units I’m looking at here are made for those smaller applications.
@@garagedwellersww I haven't yet sprung for the high CFM solution, but I will eventually get there. In the meantime, my dust separator attached to a shopvac is working well. I actually did use the dusttopper for a a few months before I got sick of it filling up so fast.
Nice comparison~! I've been using (and am still using) my original Craftsman 16gal shop vac (1990) with a first gen dust deputy and it has worked very well. I recently bought the newer low-pro Oneida to set up a mobile vac setup with my cordless Milwaukee vac and they work great together. Love the new Oneida~! I've not thought about pairing an Oneida with the Festool, but having watched your video, I'll be picking up another in order to do so. I've not filled a bag yet, but love the idea of extending its life. For the portability aspect, I'll work on some kind of caddy to stack separator onto the the CT36. First video I've seen of yours, so I'm onboard (sub). Thanks for the great demo~!
Thanks for watching and subscribing! Sounds like you have some good setups. Check out the video I did on the dust deputy ultimate- it’s has attachments for CT vacs and works really well
I've got a shop full of different vacs and separators. I suggest you redo your economics math after you start using filter bags betweeen the cyclone and the final filter on your comparisons. It works like this. Dust goes through the cyclone which separates 99% (or so) of dust. Then the remaining 1% goes to the filter bag ($5-6 each). Filter bags in this setup usually last a number of buckes full of dust, and then the balance or VERY LITTLE goes to the final filter. That, by the way, is what Festool does. I use the Dustopper PRO, connected to a 100" water lift FEIN Turbo I with a bag filter (cost 5$). Like your Festool, I cannot remember whan I've had to replace the pleated filter.
Thanks for the video, I guess we're trading consumable filters for energy usage. The first thing that popped in my mind is CFM is one measurement for performance, but "inches of water lift" is another, it tells how many inches the motor will vertically lift a 1" column of water, aka how strong the vacuum cleaner at dealing with resistance. (what differentiates dust extractors from shop vacs) I imagine a strong water lift measurement will result in lower CFM drop. Airwatts is how some volume cleaners try to combine CFA and inches of water lift.
I've got the Dustopper after having a Dust deputy. The Dustopper Pro has a neoprene ring seal for less air loss ( you can add this yourself ). I have 5.5 hp dust collector that hooks to my overhead swing arm hose system that fits my PC550 sander, my PC890 router, and my Festool TS55 REQ track saw, and a 10" table saw. I've done a lot of cabinets over the last 5 years and have emptied my 6 gal pail about 2-3 times a year. I'm still on the original bag and filter for the shop vac. Any dust separator is VERY helpful. Could I do better by getting the new Dust Deputy Oh yes, but right now, For the price, It works pretty good. I even have a 20"fan with a cheep air filter on it that pulls out an amazing amount of dust from the air for its $25 price tag. The fan was $15 at the end of the season, and I purchased some reusable air filter material that I cut to size for $10.
I think the festool one is kind of redundant when used on the Festool vac. I have a Festool CT22E and I would never consider hooking a cyclone in front of it as nothing comes out of the vac now. So, the only possible reasons to have it would be for the increased collection capacity the separator bin provides you and it would save you some time and money on filter bags. My filter bags are reuseable but it's still a hassle to have to deal with removing and emptying that bag, so just being able to empty a bin before that material gets to the vac bag would be somewhat of an advantage. As far as the test, it's probably best to take a dust sample that has 2 or 3 types of dust (size) and divide it by weight into how many different test subjects there are. So, you have the material weight before compared to the material weigh after the tests. You'd have actual data supporting the visual identification.
Just cut the end of the festool bag, roll it twice use a couple clips. You lose a small amount of capacity but I’ve been doing this for years with the same bag never leaks.
Yup, I've seen a bunch of ppl post this tip. I just bought my 1st Festool item (CT Midi) last week at Rockler and told dude that I didn't want spare bags because I knew I'd be doing this.
not sure on the ridged, but the festool replacement bags are a 5 pack for $46. I had originally thought it was $46 for one, but just ordered them a couple days ago and it was for the 5 pack. edit: just checked and I went through the 5 pack in 3 years. Technically it's longer, because I just put the 5th one in this last week.
True, but those would be getting to the same spots anyway without it. They definitely save on bags, and I find a good bag is the best way to save your filters.
I'd imagine the dustopper pro would have a little better result as it's git a gasket seal now and a new design to the cyclone setup. I've used the old one for years, it's alright, better than nothing, but I find it leaving powder all around the top of the bucket it's on. I do run the bags though, much better overall, but I use that setup on my sand blast cabinet. Talk about powder lol
It would be interesting to see what the performance of these separators when they are half full and "full". My guess is as they fill up, the performance drops.
Absolutely - they're all different, but with both the Festool and the Dustopper I would notice a drop when they got about half full. The tall cyclone styles a bit less so, but I think you're right, subjectively suction drops as they fill up. With the clear containers, I default to emptying them when they get half full!
@@garagedwellersww That's what I would expect, more debris passing through to the vacuum. With the bucket type you could always cut the bottom out of two buckets and put a lid on one tape the bottoms together to make a taller bucket for more capacity.
I'm in the market for a new extractor and cyclone separator as my 22 year old Porter Cable vacuum recently died. Over the last few years I've been around other tradesmen with almost every brand of extractor and Oneida, Festool and Dustopper separators. From my viewpoint the best extractor is a tie between Hilti and Festool and the best separator is Oneida. I'll be buying a CT-26 and the Oneida separator that fits on the systainer dock. I actually like the Hilti vacuum a little better than the Festool but the ability to attach the separator to the vacuum pushed me to Festool.
I used an old blower/lawn vacuum hung it outside the garage. Adapted my 2.5” shop vac to the vac hard hose, and it works like a champ. Plenty of suction even with (doubled) 12’ of hose.
I don’t have any dust collection in my garage, but as I am remodeling, is am trying to work towards getting things set up where dust collection is viable
For tools like a bench planer or miter saw that throw a large amount of chips, a dust extractor is essential. I clogged up my filter on my Ridgid Shop Vac very quickly. I then built my own cyclone filter from 2 5-gallon buckets and $20 worth of plumbing fittings (DIY instructions here on RUclips), and it works great. Only a small amount of fine dust in the Shop Vac. I also put a pool skimmer "sock" over the Shop Vac filter - captures a huge amount of fine dust -only about $0.20 each. Wirh this installed, I've never had to replace the Shop Vac filter (going on 5 years.)
Absolutely for larger tools - jointers, planers, table saws, large drum sanders, etc. These dust separators I reviewed are designed for small tools like sanders, domino/biscuit jointers, and routers. Ideally, for those large tools you also want a dust collector that is designed to deliver high CFM/low pressure (shops vacs and dust extractors are low CFM/high pressure), but most of us have/do make it work for those bigger tools with a shop vac and a dust separator.
Yup. Did the same kinda thing with my Ryobi 60L steel canister vacuum. I also put a large permanent magnet on the side of the canister as I do a lot of metal work as well as wood work (light fabrication with a lot of angle and 2x72 belt grinding). Metal ’dust’ REALLY kills vacuum filters and extractor motors FAST!
Some folks buy it because of the square shape - a lot of people don't like the bucket style separators because they can be tippy and top heavy. I bought it to fit in a cabinet in my outfeed assembly table and at the time didn't own a vac that had the dock on the top.
@@garagedwellersww fair enough. I like it because it snaps onto the top of my Festool dust extractor and I can stack other systainers on top of it. It’s a pretty efficient design.
I had a Oneida but now I just use bags. The problem is, it's the fine particles that get past the cyclones and its the fine particles that plug you vacuum filter. The extra effort using a cyclone for me was a pain in the buttocks. Perhaps the best filter is a water filter ( like the old Rainbow vacuum) but what a mess that would be. There is no winning this game.
I bought the Festool chip separator and I thought it was expensive at $375… it noticeably reduces the suction of the Festool extractor that it sits on. It doesn’t collect much in the way of anything; that surprised me. So it is a big expense for something that doesn’t work worth a damn. It makes moving the dust extractor around seem very awkward and clumsy. There’s some points to consider. The Festool dust extractors are only that; they are NOT a shop Vac. The hose is too damned small and the suction isn’t strong enough so it’s constantly clogging up. It works great when connecting to a sander, especially with the auto-off/on feature. I connect my miter saw to the Festool dust extractor and it works well enough, but the volumes of sawdust are starting to get serious enough to warrant a better solution. And the Festool chip extractor really doesn’t do anything in that application; sawdust is still too fine to spin out of the air stream. I ended up buying a Rigid top-of-the-line shop vac with a 2-1/2” hose for construction site and shop debris cleanup. It works great for that function. I have a 12” planer/jointer that that generates huge volumes of wood dust. The Festool DUST extractor is silly trying to collect that much volume and the shop vac is inadequate too. So I bought a Harbor Freight 4” real dust collector with 4” clear hoses, blast gates etc. that handles my planer/jointer and table saw. That was around $350 total system cost when the dust collector was on sale. That’s still less than the Festool chip separator with literally 12x the CFM! (Let that sink in). My opinion: The Festool chip extractor is ridiculous and pointless. Use a real (2-1/2” hose) Shop Vac for what it was designed for. Invest in a REAL, high CFM 4” hose dust collection system for stationary power tools. The bucket-top chip separators will help if you’re struggling to justify a bigger dust collection system investment. But it’s not a great solution; consider the volumes of dust and the needed CFM for the high volume sawdust producers. Hope that helps!
Festool does sell bigger hoses, but yes if you are trying to suck up large chips that are as big or bigger than the diameter of any hose, that hose will clog. Check out my video on the Oneida V3000 and a couple of my responses to comments on this video - none of the units I tested here are designed to be used with large volume/large chip machines. Jointers, planers, table saw, drum sanders etc. need high CFM/low pressure. So you need an actual dust collector for those. These units, both the vacs and separators, are designed for hand held machines (domino/biscuit jointer, sanders, routers, etc.). So if you’re hooking a Festool vac up to a jointer, it’s like trying to use a garden hose to put out a house fire - not at all what it was built to do.
I think the low profile style is just not enough vertical, and the lack of a funnel shape to keep the fine dust from being picked back up from the cyclone on the edges.
Also, Oneida has a tall cyclone that fits on top of the Festool with sustainer clips. And like yours, my festool bag stays virtually empty after months and months.
The Festool offers a HUGE advantage for heavy use/jobsite use in being stackable and portable. The expense goes into a space and time tradeoff; every other solution will require some DIY packaging to gain these benefits. (Of course, if you are a member of the Festool religion, you aren't even reading this. 😊) For many of us home-use guys, it's good to do the greatest sawdust production outdoors. Without some kind of vac connected, a sliding miter saw can throw a LOT of dust and chips, but it doesn't hold a candle to a thickness planer. Sanders are of course the champions for fine dust, which you don't want to breathe. For what I can do on my driveway or patio, the yard vac (which we NEED with our trees) does a fine job of pickup without trailing hoses all over.
Yep, the portability and compatibility within the Festool system makes it worth it for a lot of folks. And agreed, I know a lot of garage woodworkers do a lot of work outside. It’s a great option 👍🏻
I have the Oneida pro plus Ridgid set up. I’m just new to woodworking and this seemed like a reasonable setup for my garage (I have to put my stuff away). I’ve easily created 8 pails of dust and chips in the past 2 months from using my planer and jointer so without the Oneida it would be a lot of vacuum bags, so I think your cost analysis is not accurate and it’s definitely worth the money to buy a cyclone.
If you are using this for a jointer and planer (I'm guessing benchtop?), then yes it makes a lot of financial sense to buy one. However, given the hose size on these, and the amount of chips created from jointers/planers, most people use these size separators with small tools (think sanders, biscuit jointer, etc) and have larger separator setups for bigger tools. My financial analysis was that you calculate how much you would spend on bags, and if it outpaces the cost of the separator in a short time, as in your case, it's worth it.
For the little bit of difference between the the three options, the Festool is WAY overpriced and not worth it. You're paying for the name. I don't want to have to sell a kidney just for a name brand. I'm perfectly fine with the Oneida. Thanks for the great comparison!!
I originally printed one I found on the interwebs (It looks pretty cool! taller cyclone version) that attaches to a 5 gal bucket. This was before I got a new shop vac that uses bags. My original shop vac didn't have the ability to use bags so printed my cyclone to help save the filters. Now that I have a newer one that uses bags, I might ditch the cyclone. The bags are cheap enough! I'm also curious to see my performance loss with my cyclone vs none. And also, does the bag in the vac cause any measurable loss??
How about a wakeup call to shop vac mfr's to make an all-in-one or plug-n-play? I bought Festool CT years ago and filled the first bag in about 10 minutes. I don't spend enough time in the shop, but when I do, I find my cheap-self reaching for my little Shop Vac, or my Craftsman large shop vac.
think only place you went wrong is with things that product large amounts of chips like benchtop thicknessers and jointers. for them cyclone is a must, they could fill bag in minutes even with 55lt drum and cyclone on my thicknesser still have empty it after around only 20min of work
Oh I think you absolutely want staged separation for big chip items. However, most jointers/planers (even benchtop models) need higher CFM/lower pressure systems than you get through these types of dust extractors. These are really designed for smaller tools, but Oneida makes bigger cyclones for those applications too!
Another tick for the Festool: If 2 businesses do the exact same job (quality of work) and one is cleaner + looks more “with it” people will perceive the job was better done and therefore be willing to pay more.
Oneida cyclone that fits on top of the Festool, not this bucket topper version. And in my dream world, I want a CT26 with about a third of the bag capacity, yet all of the power and features. Yes I know the make smaller Festool vacs, but they don’t have the power, and the cyclone robs power.
The CT 15/25/Midi all have 130 CFM, while the 26/26/48 have 137 I believe. So they’re pretty close. I have both a 15 and 26 and it’s tough to tell a difference.
Bags are a pain to change and messy. The cyclones are worth every cent. Even to vacuum water my buddy had a water line under the sink break and he used his to clean the mess. No bag change. And I have the Cen-Tec cyclone. Best so far and priced reasonable.
I have three vacs in my shop and I agree - I have a lo pro on one, and a dust deputy on the other two. I love that they save on bag changes personally!
I think the #1 benefit of these is simply lengthening the time between dumping the garbage. The bucket roughly doubles how long you can go. A minor convenience, but a good one if you have the floor space. Great test!
Even in the shop I would like something like the Festool cyclone separator. I still haven’t found anything else in that form factor. There’s plenty of other brands of dust collector vacs Im surprised no one else has added a cyclone product yet that Ive found.
Oneida makes one that fits on the Festool vacs with a cyclone top - Dust Deputy Ultimate Systainer. It is amazing in terms of performance, but you’re right the Festool wins hands down in terms of form/functionality with the Festool system.
Into the bag. All Festool DCs come with a fleece bag. "But I have to replace a bag?" Yep and those bags are a whole lot less than the $100+ HEPA main filter. Editing to add: Actually, I'm not sure with his test. He shows the bucket without a bag so who knows?
I didn’t use the bag in these tests just to show you what would get into the bag, but @buckrogers2491 is correct - the festool bags capture pretty much all the fine dust. Between the Oneida and the festool bags, nothing really makes it to the HEPA filter.
I’ve seen these, and had something similar on a Rockler wall mounted dust collector in the past. Definitely a good option for people who don’t want something pre-made.
any Festool extractor and any dust deputy , works great. I got the Fest dust deputy , its cool, but yes more for the system proffesional, Fest vacs are by far superior to any cheap shop vac, with bluetooth to the tools and remotes , hose quality, portability, decibels, even used as a cabinet mover on site......just get one , or two 🤪nice video
Regarding the Festool. It's not just portability. I had a cyclone. By being between the vac and the user end hose, it was constantly in the way, moved around, often fell ...and eventually broke. There is a *LOT* to be said about having it stacked on top of the vac *while* in job site. In customer's houses, it does look more professional, but I tend to think that if makes more sense to charge enough to cover the change of filters over time. Unless it's a big job and you are brining in a lot of gear.
First, I would love to see along this ones a test with a good diy cyclone. Second, from what I see here, there is not much of a difference from the priciest to the lower one... so...
I dissagree. A weekend warrior usale needs good dust collection due to the small shop. Withoute the separation the sucktion level decrease the more the vack fills up
@@garagedwellersww yes but i found thats it due to the separation efficiency decreaces as the cyclon fills over 50% tgats when the filters start to get cloged witg fine dust again
I would have liked to have seen the weight of the 6 piles of extracted dust. Your verbage, calling them all a dust extractor is interesting. Some people make a big deal that extractors are just inherently better than shop vacs w/o explaining what they feel has to be different to be called such. I have no clue why one would be named differently (your way of referencing) than the other. Can you weigh in on this terminology aspect?
I believe that technically, dust extractors are designed more specifically for wood dust use - HEPA filters and motors/suction designed to capture fine dust without losing suction. Shop vacs are designed more for large debris and wet/dry functions.
Filter full? Not sure if I call that filter full as you had very little dust in the vacuum and as we all know the filter needs some dust to filter out more so it not floating around n the shop. Looks more like you looking for flow vs. dust control as floating around in the shop.
Not full in the literal sense of can't take any more, and it was of course expected because I was running the test without bags. I was using flow as a surrogate for performance - if you lose suction/flow, then dust collection at the tool drops, which means more fine dust floating around the shop. Having used all three extensively in regular use, the Festool especially leaves a lot more dust in the air/on your work surface (especially notable when sanding).
I'm pretty sure mph isn't the right metric to have been measured. I think CFM is what you should have measured. There is some correlation between windspeed and CFM, but you can't really quantify what is being gained or lost in terms of actual performance with windspeed. It's not a horrible measurement, but the data doesn't really tell you anything other than which is better. You just can't quantify how much better. But measuring CFM is a lot more expensive to measure than windspeed, so I completely understand why windspeed was measured. I would have like to see weights on the dust collected, but I'm not even sure that matters as these devices are as you properly demonstrated are about fines which don't really have all that much mass. But I would have been more interested in seeing how much dust was blown off the filters instead of seeing you just clean off the filters. This could have been done by shaking the dust off the filters into a bag, it wouldn't have been perfect as you'd still have to blow off the smaller fines left on the filters, but it would have demonstrated something about what got through to the vacuums. I still don't think you justified your demand that I watch your video. I pretty much had the same thoughts about what I'd buy before and after watching the video. These were basically, I could by the Home Depot thing which would help and is convinient to purchase or I could spend about the same for the Oneida with a little more effort that's probably better or I could waste a lot of money on a Festool. I'm not suggesting that Festool is a bad brand, but I'm just not spending $1000 on a shop vac. You could put Rolls-Royce on that thing and you'd never convince me that something that has a more expensive filter than an actual vacuum is worth the money. I really think you should have said this too. But you didn't. So I'm calling you out. Vacuum $100 vs $115 filter. I understand that that's a Hepa Filter which actually has health benefits while the Rigid filter only protect the motor. Still I have a Dyson vacuum in my home and the filters aren't $115. They aren't half of that. Dyson is one of those fancy brand vacuums that are overpriced. I know this, I still have it because it doesn't throw dust out the exhaust, but they aren't gouging me on filters or bags which don't even exist. I spent a lot on the vacuum but maintaining it is more than reasonable in upkeep costs. I can't say that $115 is at all reasonable.
Thanks for the thoughtful comments. Good question about CFM. There are calculations you can do for it - they involve looking at the area of the hose outlet, the change in air velocity at the inlet and end of the hose, and then a few constants in the equation. I used the same hose in all settings so the only variable in the equation that would change is the wind velocity. So it is a surrogate for CFM - you are correct, not the measure that shows exact performance, but a surrogate given all other variables in the calculations remain constant. What I can say for the vacs, having owned shop vacs, rigids, the Festool CT 15 and 26, is the Festool does a better job at dust collection, better pre-filter collection, and lasts longer. Using these a lot, for my lungs and longevity of machines (as well as a 3 year warranty), I think they’re worth it, however you are right, it’s a stupid amount of money. The smaller Festool vacs in the $300-400 range are probably the sweet spot. My main goal was to make sure people who are in the market for these things understand they do have a negative impact on performance, they are not a necessity, and that by doing a simple analysis of how many consumables you go through with whatever setup you prefer, you can figure out if the price of a separator is worth it to you.
I can guarantee not a single person that watches this videos cares about what you would like to see or if he justifies you watching the video. He took the time to do the tests and pass on the results. Go back to playing with your Dyson in the corner.
Performance of the cyclone is irrelevant - you would never ever use it without second stage filter anyway… whether it is bag+hepa, just bag or just hepa is a personal choice… as for me I hate clutter and I would pay any money for a rectangular box with two holes on the same side that neatly fits into a cabinet 🙂
It is relevant in that losing suction leads to less dust collection at the tool, and thus more dust in the air where you are working. I used the Festool for a year+, and noticed a lot more dust in the air and on my work surfaces, especially with sanding. You’re completely right about the convenience though - it fit really nicely into my cabinets. And I totally get the use on the job site too.
It is important that you understand enough about how a shop vac runs... The shop vacs have an internal fan that is run by a motor. That combo has a defined OPERATION CURVE... that is, for every airflow value, there is a corresponding vacuum "pull", so that at varying flow values, the pulled vacuum does vary. The thing is that the internal impeller inside the vacuum has a narrow zone of operation where the efficiency of that fan is satisfactory, but if you restrict the flow too much (either by using a too narrow hose or placing a too restrictive cyclone, the system loses a lot of efficiency. The fan and motor of shop vacs is designed for working with the typical pressure drop of a typical sized hose and the accesory attached to the hose and no more. A well designed separator (like the Oneida) adds a moderate or low pressure drop, therefore, the typical shop vac will maintain an almost full flow together with an adecuate suction level. If you put attention, you will see that the Festool cyclone, in spite of the high price and famous namebrand, was badly designed and causes an excessive pressure drop, which results in taking the fan and motor of the vac, to go outside of the flow versus vacuum level range where the design of the vacuum can operate efficiently. Congratulations for Oneida for doing a good engineered design, as they correctly MATCHED the Pressure Drop of their device to the typical operation curve of a typical shop vac, therefore optimizing both the airflow and the vacuum pull!
This is such a useless video. These “tests” are all over RUclips. There’s no question the Oneida low pro is the hands down the best of its type. The hideously expensive elitist green product is so far out of the other 2 separators orbit as to be useless in this video.
This is the stupidest dust collector I have ever seen from festool and it will not be as good. Didn't buy it and never will Infact, festool prices are so outrageous right now that I am designing my own tracks etc.
I didn’t mention in the video, but no matter what you do or what system you use, use bags! They are such an important step in keeping your vac’s filter clean.
I would if it didn’t absolutely kill my CFM. That was also something you didn’t mention in the video… which model of ridgid vac was that? How many CFM was it rated at? And how does that change when using a bag? Or a higher rated filter?
I was just going to mention that The on,y reason I felt one needed a cyclone type system, was to not plug up your filter, at least not as fast. The cost of bags never came up in my mind. I thought it’s the reason you have a shop vac. No bags needed?
@@SylvainBellerose The bag will keep dust from getting to the filter, and the filter is the last step in making sure fine dust doesn't get out into the air. If you don't use a bag, just expect to need to clean your filter more frequently.
@@lightspeedguru Its either the 12 or 14 gallon version. It advertised more CFM than the Festool, more than 150 but can't remember the exact number. Any impedance placed between the motor and the hose will alter CFM, and the more it filters the more effect. What effect that has exactly I'm not sure. I do not notice a difference with my Festool vacs with a bag and without, and the bags keep the filters immaculate.
@@garagedwellersww I just did the craziest thing in my shop. I removed the filter and bag from my rigid shop vac entirely and just let it blow out the output then connected a 2 1/2 inch hose between the output of the shop vac and the 4 inch input of my dust collector. Now the dust goes from my tool through my cyclone through the shop vac and into my 4 inch desk collector. I don’t have to turn on the motor on my 4 inch dust collector. It just acts as a big filter so far the results have been amazing and I highly recommend it.
You just saved me a lot of money! If the new Harbor Freight HERCULES 12 Gallon OSHA-Compliant Dust Extractor ever darkens your doorway, please put that thing head-to-head with the Festool dust extractor. At less than 1/2 the price, it would make an interesting comparison.
Got this one last week and love it!
Good comparison, and the results were as expected. Oneida knows what they're doing with their cyclones. You nailed it with the festool; you only get it if you need the portability and integration with festool's ecosystem. I use a dust deputy 2.5 in my workshop, but will be adding a lowpro to my home vac setup soon. Either way, any cyclone is better than no cyclone at all. You noticed it with your ct26+cyclone; you can go literal years without changing bags. Not only that, but you won't lose suction as the container fills up, which will happen is using a bag alone, and the filter stays very clean.
In regards to whether or not someone should get a separator, I think everyone should invest in one. Even if it's one of the cheap aliexpress clones. You made a case for the weekend DIYers to not really need one, but if they have a simple cyclone setup, they don't have to worry about changing bags or filters, they can just focus on the projects that they already have limited time to work on. Cyclones are cheap enough that they should be a no-brainer choice for anyone making sawdust.
Good points. The only thing I would say is go with an Oneida. If you have a cheaper vac that doesn’t perform quite as well, and then you add a cyclone that cuts performance, now you have less suction at the tool, more dust in the air, more dust on the work surface that may effect sanding performance, etc. Knowing the Oneida had the least impact on performance is important I think. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Couple of comments: First, I really liked the demonstration, and from a practical sense the way you approached the evaluation. I've seen similar, but this one struck home with me. Second, the performance is an important issue from a health perspective as well. Which you did not mention, but is well worth mentioning. I was really impressed by your miter saw dust collection. I have an old Delta, it works really well, but zero dust collection. The Festool approach seems to work great on your saw. And finally, I subscribed to your channel based on this video. Thanks!
Thanks for the comments! Helath is for sure important. I talk more about health in my Oneida V 3000 Dust collector video, but that's one of the big reasons a drop in performance matters - less suction means less fine dust collected at the tool, and thus more in the air.
An interesting comparison. I use a Fine Turbo II vacuum with the Oneida Dust Deputy in my home shop. Besides normal woodworking sawdust, I do wood turning which produces massive amounts of large and small chips. The bulk of these are shoveled into the trash. The rest plus general cleaning around the shop uses the Fine/Dust Deputy combination. The cyclone separator works great on separating the chips and the fine dust goes into a paper bag in the Fine vacuum. This is so effective, I haven't needed to change the paper bag for over five years. I bought the Dust Deputy to prevent the expensive paper bags from quickly filling up and I am very pleased with the results this gives me.
Same boat - I have dust deputies on all three of my small vacs, and they save on bags for sure.
One of the few review videos I've seen with actual content with no hysterics or drama. Excellent! The only thing missing is measuring particulate matter in the air while creating dust. Air flow, dust picked up, etc, do not indicated the efficacy of the products. But excellent video.
Yes, I have a particulate meter but didn’t think to use it. I do know from my hands on use of all three that the air flow results were the same as airborne particulates - Oneida beat the other two, and Festool’s was the worst of the three
HEPA filter + bags saves your lungs (COPD and Cancer), good dust separation (Oneida) saves your bag + filter. As a professional woodworker a bag last me 18 months for it to be 3/4 full and the HEPA filter never has to be clean and certainly not change.
Absolutely - I talk more about the health ramifications of good dust collection in my Oneida V3000 video. I have dust separators for the same reason - I would otherwise be going through a ton of consumables.
I have purchased “THE MULLET CYCLONE”. I love it About $120.00. It’s on 4 wheels and rolls with my Rigid 16 gal. I have 2 rigid vac , one permanently stays with my powermatic table saw & I unattached mullet to roll with my around shop Ridgid. Woodworkers Guild tested & gave an approval . But no comparison to Oneida.
I've seen the Mullet out there. Seems interesting.
Mullet doesn’t seem to deter efficiency of my 16 gal vac. I keep one ridged at my powermatic table saw with the mullet. I have another ridged vac and slide mullet away from Ridgid/Powermatic setup and d roll mullet to my 2nd Ridgid . I plan on buying a 2nd mullet
One of the things I think a separator must help with (logically, but I have not tested it), is that if that much less fine dust is making it to the filter, than that much fine dust can't slip through the filter, improving air quality. If the filter is 99% percent efficient, if 90% less dust goes to it, then it becomes 99.9% efficient.
Yep, with the Oneida way less gets to the filter and it’s really efficient. However, if performance is impacted significantly, then less dust gets sucked up at the tool and you get more fine dust in the air.
It doesn’t work like that. The really fine dust is the most problematic for your health. A cyclone works well for larger particles, but not for the harmful fine dust. This is why you need a good filter in the vacuum. Even if a cyclone were to separate 99% of the dust, you would still need the filter for health protection, because it’s that remaining 1% that is truly dangerous. Pre-separation doesn’t improve filtration but helps prevent the filter from clogging quickly. A cyclone doesn’t really help with toxic saw dust, nor does it improve the air quality that gets out after the filter.
Good video, I already have the larger Oneida separator on a 2hp system and I’ve never seen any dust in the bag below the filter, that’s after about 6 months of use on table saw, miter, planer, jointer and general vacuuming of shop for a weekend warrior. I do use my shop vac for sanding and was trying to decide between the dust stopper and the new Oneida, you’ve confirmed for me which one. I also learned from you to use a bag, thanks for such an informative video.
Thanks for watching - my brother has the big dust depth on his 2HP as well, and that thing rocks!
Thank you for making this video. It's very insightful. Like you said, I will never use a shop vac without a bag. It makes a huge difference. All you have to do is remove the bag, toss it out & and replace it. The vac stays pretty clean. I actually bought a dust topper a year ago. But I haven't even used it. 😅 Now im thinking it was just a waste of money.
It does ok - I used dust deputies for a couple years. But the Oneida stuff is a step up for sure. And you’re right, the bag is crucial! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
Thanks for the video! The Oneida is definitely a shocker.
It really is!
I mounted a Veritas cyclone lid on a surplus food barrel that sits on a roller base and holds about 40 gallons on dust and chips. It connects to my Festool dust extractor and my planer, band saw, router, or drill press via 2.5” hose one at a time. I empty the barrel several times a year. My table saw has a vacuum and gravity fed dust bin underneath it.
I love how many cool ways people have figured for dust collection - sounds like a great setup!
Thank you for sharing this was very informative and it helped me to see what works well and not so much.
I have a craftsman shop vac it my third shop vac and I have the rockler dust deputy separator on it. It works pretty well. I’ve been doing woodworking since 2015 I am now a full time woodworker. I’ll be upgrading as the jobs come in
Thanks for checking it out, very glad it was helpful!
Great comparison! After watching a RUclips video ,I did what the guy suggested and wrapped the vac filter with a couple of wraps of paper towel and a wrap of window screening ,with a bungee cord to hold it together. I have been using this method for over a year and when I notice a loss in suction, I open the the vac to find the paper towel coated with a thick layer of fine dust. The filter still looks brand new! Using this cheap and easy fix and one of your set-ups would work great for years!
Interesting - never heard that one before. Sounds like it works well!
Nice video! As a hobbyist / semi-professional myself, I have both the CT26 and the older Ridged. Festool claims 137 CFM and 98 bars of water whereas Rigid claims 160 (I think). If you look at the ASTM standard (I’m a geek) CFM is measured at the end of a 2” hose. Not all manufacturers will use the ASTM standard and their CFM rating is at the inlet. Probably why you are seeing a difference between the two in your own measurements.
Interesting details!
I just use my rigid shop vac with a hepa filter and hepa bag it's the best bang for your buck. I sanded my hardwood floors in my house and only used a couple bags with no dust in my house it was awesome.
Glad to hear - that’s a majorly dusty process!
Thanks for your review. It was very much appreciated. It really helped me determine what I am going to do. I think I will start with bags and see how much I spend in a year then go from there.
How about comparing the two oneidas you have? The tall one vs this newer short one.
Good idea!
That's what I was going to suggest. I've been using an original ClearVue CV06 for 18 years now and still like it -- but, that newer Oneida would be nice with its lower overall height.
Timely video as I am considering this currently. I had already settled on the Oneida and this confirms it. Nice analysis, thanks!
Thanks for checking it out - you’ll be happy with the Oneida for sure. They make great products, and have fantastic customer service!
19:45 when we hired someone to do drywall work in our home I appreciated that the contractor used the Festool
Dustopper PRO come with clamp and seal which is the same with oneida where the old one don't come anything with it.
Interesting- smart things to address on their part 👍🏻
Dust collection Rite of Passage:
1. Oneida tower cyclone with Ridgid 14gal 6HP shop vac on homemade cart - check
- utility use between contractor table saw, benchtop band saw, benchtop drill press
2. original Dusttopper with Ridgid 16gal 6hp as a Miter Saw cart - check
- dedicated vac with lower profile dust collection; cart from Fix This Build That plan
3. new Dusttopper Pro with Ridgid 4gal 6hp as benchtop Drum Sander cart - check
- maintain horsepower with smaller footprint vac and low profile Dusttopper Pro in similar F.T.B.T. homemade cart
Woodshop area shared in two car garage
Other tips:
a. Dusttopper Pro suggested static discharge idea, helps a bit overall. Went back and grounded the Oneida and original Dusttopper later
b. Section of pantyhose over vac filter to assist in cleaning if no bags used
c. Rockler expandable flex hose can reach farther than the supplied vac hose, or, cut pieces to go between filters and vac in cart setups
Your comparison methods were spot on. Camera work done well to show dust collection results. As a weekend woodworker turning in to everyday hobbyist, collecting good ideas like this is very much appreciated.😀
Love the rite of passage! All good tips - glad it was helpful, and thanks for watching!
I am all cordless (combination of ridgid and Flexvolt) In my case I have the Flexvolt 60v extractor (also tstak compatible like the festool is with sustainers) and I made a separator with a filter out of another tstak 6" tall box. Works great in the high end homes like you said for portability. All my storage and vac match and are compatible..
I use the Newer 60v flexvolt Miter saw and table saw as well with the extractor along with my tracksaw, sanders, etc.
Sounds like a great setup!
The thing that no one seems to talk about is the need for different duct collection strategies for different tools. Smaller dust ports work well with high static pressure, low CFM vacs but machines with larger, 4” dust ports require high CFM dust collectors. And you can’t use one system for both! … or can you? I’d love to see a review of the dust cobra for this purpose so maybe Oneida will send you one of them? ;-)
Absolutely, two very different systems for different tools. I’ll have to look up the dust cobra - haven’t heard of it.
I have the original Oneida tower and the Mullet Cyclone, I notice a bigger drop in performance with the Mullet (no data to back that up) then the Oneida tower. I use them on tools that generate moderate fine dust and where I can store the setup out of the way (miter saw and table saw). On my lathe I do not have one since I need max performance and can easily change the bags out. Being a semi professional turner I can justify the cost of bags/filters since I am selling items made on the lathe.
Just bought the dust deputy with my 4 gallon ridgid vac. For just being a hobbyist this works for me but I would like to have a bigger unit and just run lines for the convenience
That’s essentially what I had for my first few years - it’s a great setup that will serve you well!
Very fair Test. I agree with your opinion and opinion. Thanks for sharing your time and information.
Thank you!
Great video, thanks. Would be interesting to just measure the weight of what is collected in the separator. Like have 500g of sawdust, suck it up, and if you weigh what comes out of the separator as 490g, then you know 10g remain stuck to the separator walls, the vac walls and the vac filter. It obviously doesn't tell you how much is getting into the filter, but you'd have a pretty good idea of how effective the separator is.
That is a really smart idea!
Great unbiased and sensible review.
Thank you!
A note on the consumables you priced for the rigid: those aren’t the hepa-rated bags/filters, and the festool ones are. The green hepa-rated bag and filter really kill the flow of the rigid vac in my experience.
Good to know!
Great comparison video.. well done 🦾
Thank you! 👍
Even as a weekend warrior: if you have a jointer/planer, you NEED an extractor. Those two tools generate so much waste you'll probably be emptying your 5gal bucket before you're even done with that operation. I ended up getting Rockler's dust extractor for more extraction volume.
Very true, I would agree that for big chip producers a two stage system is key. However, none of these are made for jointers/planers, nor are shop vacs/festool vacs designed for jointer planer use. Dust extractors for high volume chip producing machines need high CFM/low pressure, a rigid or festool vac is low CFM/high pressure and designed for smaller applications like sanding, track saws, miter saws, etc. The three units I’m looking at here are made for those smaller applications.
@@garagedwellersww I haven't yet sprung for the high CFM solution, but I will eventually get there. In the meantime, my dust separator attached to a shopvac is working well. I actually did use the dusttopper for a a few months before I got sick of it filling up so fast.
Nice comparison~! I've been using (and am still using) my original Craftsman 16gal shop vac (1990) with a first gen dust deputy and it has worked very well. I recently bought the newer low-pro Oneida to set up a mobile vac setup with my cordless Milwaukee vac and they work great together. Love the new Oneida~! I've not thought about pairing an Oneida with the Festool, but having watched your video, I'll be picking up another in order to do so. I've not filled a bag yet, but love the idea of extending its life. For the portability aspect, I'll work on some kind of caddy to stack separator onto the the CT36. First video I've seen of yours, so I'm onboard (sub). Thanks for the great demo~!
Thanks for watching and subscribing! Sounds like you have some good setups. Check out the video I did on the dust deputy ultimate- it’s has attachments for CT vacs and works really well
Harbor Freight has a vacuum that is very quiet and does a great job. It’s between the two in price at $300.
I heard about that - sounds really interesting
I've got a shop full of different vacs and separators. I suggest you redo your economics math after you start using filter bags betweeen the cyclone and the final filter on your comparisons. It works like this. Dust goes through the cyclone which separates 99% (or so) of dust. Then the remaining 1% goes to the filter bag ($5-6 each). Filter bags in this setup usually last a number of buckes full of dust, and then the balance or VERY LITTLE goes to the final filter. That, by the way, is what Festool does. I use the Dustopper PRO, connected to a 100" water lift FEIN Turbo I with a bag filter (cost 5$). Like your Festool, I cannot remember whan I've had to replace the pleated filter.
If you know where to get bags for any of my Festool vacs for $5, I'd love to know where!
@@garagedwellersww That's why I use FEIN Turbo I and their bags. I actually own a Festool and their wimpy cyclone. So over rated.....
Thanks for the video, I guess we're trading consumable filters for energy usage. The first thing that popped in my mind is CFM is one measurement for performance, but "inches of water lift" is another, it tells how many inches the motor will vertically lift a 1" column of water, aka how strong the vacuum cleaner at dealing with resistance. (what differentiates dust extractors from shop vacs) I imagine a strong water lift measurement will result in lower CFM drop. Airwatts is how some volume cleaners try to combine CFA and inches of water lift.
I've got the Dustopper after having a Dust deputy. The Dustopper Pro has a neoprene ring seal for less air loss ( you can add this yourself ). I have 5.5 hp dust collector that hooks to my overhead swing arm hose system that fits my PC550 sander, my PC890 router, and my Festool TS55 REQ track saw, and a 10" table saw. I've done a lot of cabinets over the last 5 years and have emptied my 6 gal pail about 2-3 times a year. I'm still on the original bag and filter for the shop vac. Any dust separator is VERY helpful. Could I do better by getting the new Dust Deputy Oh yes, but right now, For the price, It works pretty good. I even have a 20"fan with a cheep air filter on it that pulls out an amazing amount of dust from the air for its $25 price tag. The fan was $15 at the end of the season, and I purchased some reusable air filter material that I cut to size for $10.
Yeah if you have a setup that is working for you there's no reason to buy a different one.
Amazing content, Thanks so much for doing this very informative video.
I think the festool one is kind of redundant when used on the Festool vac. I have a Festool CT22E and I would never consider hooking a cyclone in front of it as nothing comes out of the vac now. So, the only possible reasons to have it would be for the increased collection capacity the separator bin provides you and it would save you some time and money on filter bags. My filter bags are reuseable but it's still a hassle to have to deal with removing and emptying that bag, so just being able to empty a bin before that material gets to the vac bag would be somewhat of an advantage. As far as the test, it's probably best to take a dust sample that has 2 or 3 types of dust (size) and divide it by weight into how many different test subjects there are. So, you have the material weight before compared to the material weigh after the tests. You'd have actual data supporting the visual identification.
Yes, increased capacity and saving time and money on bags is exactly what the separators are made for.
Just cut the end of the festool bag, roll it twice use a couple clips. You lose a small amount of capacity but I’ve been doing this for years with the same bag never leaks.
Great tip!
Yup, I've seen a bunch of ppl post this tip. I just bought my 1st Festool item (CT Midi) last week at Rockler and told dude that I didn't want spare bags because I knew I'd be doing this.
not sure on the ridged, but the festool replacement bags are a 5 pack for $46. I had originally thought it was $46 for one, but just ordered them a couple days ago and it was for the 5 pack.
edit: just checked and I went through the 5 pack in 3 years. Technically it's longer, because I just put the 5th one in this last week.
A little more than a bag a year - not bad!
The only problem I see with any dust separators are the fact that the finest particles will get through and clog the filters or bags quicker.
True, but those would be getting to the same spots anyway without it. They definitely save on bags, and I find a good bag is the best way to save your filters.
Great comparison. Y
Thanks. I’m going Oneida.
Good choice!
I'd imagine the dustopper pro would have a little better result as it's git a gasket seal now and a new design to the cyclone setup. I've used the old one for years, it's alright, better than nothing, but I find it leaving powder all around the top of the bucket it's on. I do run the bags though, much better overall, but I use that setup on my sand blast cabinet. Talk about powder lol
Sand blasting must be a lot!
It would be interesting to see what the performance of these separators when they are half full and "full". My guess is as they fill up, the performance drops.
Absolutely - they're all different, but with both the Festool and the Dustopper I would notice a drop when they got about half full. The tall cyclone styles a bit less so, but I think you're right, subjectively suction drops as they fill up. With the clear containers, I default to emptying them when they get half full!
@@garagedwellersww That's what I would expect, more debris passing through to the vacuum. With the bucket type you could always cut the bottom out of two buckets and put a lid on one tape the bottoms together to make a taller bucket for more capacity.
I have the dustopper, not perfect but does a good job but I think I will look in to the Oneida. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for watching! I ran Dustoppers for a couple years for space savings, but the LoPro is really impressive and checks the same boxes.
I'm in the market for a new extractor and cyclone separator as my 22 year old Porter Cable vacuum recently died. Over the last few years I've been around other tradesmen with almost every brand of extractor and Oneida, Festool and Dustopper separators. From my viewpoint the best extractor is a tie between Hilti and Festool and the best separator is Oneida. I'll be buying a CT-26 and the Oneida separator that fits on the systainer dock. I actually like the Hilti vacuum a little better than the Festool but the ability to attach the separator to the vacuum pushed me to Festool.
You’re going to love that setup!
I used an old blower/lawn vacuum hung it outside the garage. Adapted my 2.5” shop vac to the vac hard hose, and it works like a champ. Plenty of suction even with (doubled) 12’ of hose.
I don’t have any dust collection in my garage, but as I am remodeling, is am trying to work towards getting things set up where dust collection is viable
Make sure you’re wearing a respirator!
For tools like a bench planer or miter saw that throw a large amount of chips, a dust extractor is essential. I clogged up my filter on my Ridgid Shop Vac very quickly. I then built my own cyclone filter from 2 5-gallon buckets and $20 worth of plumbing fittings (DIY instructions here on RUclips), and it works great. Only a small amount of fine dust in the Shop Vac. I also put a pool skimmer "sock" over the Shop Vac filter - captures a huge amount of fine dust -only about $0.20 each. Wirh this installed, I've never had to replace the Shop Vac filter (going on 5 years.)
Absolutely for larger tools - jointers, planers, table saws, large drum sanders, etc. These dust separators I reviewed are designed for small tools like sanders, domino/biscuit jointers, and routers. Ideally, for those large tools you also want a dust collector that is designed to deliver high CFM/low pressure (shops vacs and dust extractors are low CFM/high pressure), but most of us have/do make it work for those bigger tools with a shop vac and a dust separator.
Yup. Did the same kinda thing with my Ryobi 60L steel canister vacuum. I also put a large permanent magnet on the side of the canister as I do a lot of metal work as well as wood work (light fabrication with a lot of angle and 2x72 belt grinding). Metal ’dust’ REALLY kills vacuum filters and extractor motors FAST!
The Oneida ones are made in Syracuse, NY.
They are not cheap but they work.
Great company, great customer service.
What is the model number of the Ridgid? I don't see a dust extractor on their site.
Who is buying the Festool cyclone without owning a Festool dust extractor? It's made to sit perfectly on top of a Festool dust extractor.
Some folks buy it because of the square shape - a lot of people don't like the bucket style separators because they can be tippy and top heavy. I bought it to fit in a cabinet in my outfeed assembly table and at the time didn't own a vac that had the dock on the top.
@@garagedwellersww fair enough. I like it because it snaps onto the top of my Festool dust extractor and I can stack other systainers on top of it. It’s a pretty efficient design.
I had a Oneida but now I just use bags. The problem is, it's the fine particles that get past the cyclones and its the fine particles that plug you vacuum filter. The extra effort using a cyclone for me was a pain in the buttocks.
Perhaps the best filter is a water filter ( like the old Rainbow vacuum) but what a mess that would be. There is no winning this game.
True. I use the separator plus the bags. But I would otherwise go through a ton of bags without the separator.
I bought the Festool chip separator and I thought it was expensive at $375… it noticeably reduces the suction of the Festool extractor that it sits on. It doesn’t collect much in the way of anything; that surprised me. So it is a big expense for something that doesn’t work worth a damn. It makes moving the dust extractor around seem very awkward and clumsy.
There’s some points to consider. The Festool dust extractors are only that; they are NOT a shop Vac. The hose is too damned small and the suction isn’t strong enough so it’s constantly clogging up. It works great when connecting to a sander, especially with the auto-off/on feature.
I connect my miter saw to the Festool dust extractor and it works well enough, but the volumes of sawdust are starting to get serious enough to warrant a better solution. And the Festool chip extractor really doesn’t do anything in that application; sawdust is still too fine to spin out of the air stream.
I ended up buying a Rigid top-of-the-line shop vac with a 2-1/2” hose for construction site and shop debris cleanup. It works great for that function.
I have a 12” planer/jointer that that generates huge volumes of wood dust. The Festool DUST extractor is silly trying to collect that much volume and the shop vac is inadequate too. So I bought a Harbor Freight 4” real dust collector with 4” clear hoses, blast gates etc. that handles my planer/jointer and table saw. That was around $350 total system cost when the dust collector was on sale. That’s still less than the Festool chip separator with literally 12x the CFM! (Let that sink in).
My opinion:
The Festool chip extractor is ridiculous and pointless.
Use a real (2-1/2” hose) Shop Vac for what it was designed for.
Invest in a REAL, high CFM 4” hose dust collection system for stationary power tools.
The bucket-top chip separators will help if you’re struggling to justify a bigger dust collection system investment. But it’s not a great solution; consider the volumes of dust and the needed CFM for the high volume sawdust producers.
Hope that helps!
Festool does sell bigger hoses, but yes if you are trying to suck up large chips that are as big or bigger than the diameter of any hose, that hose will clog. Check out my video on the Oneida V3000 and a couple of my responses to comments on this video - none of the units I tested here are designed to be used with large volume/large chip machines. Jointers, planers, table saw, drum sanders etc. need high CFM/low pressure. So you need an actual dust collector for those. These units, both the vacs and separators, are designed for hand held machines (domino/biscuit jointer, sanders, routers, etc.). So if you’re hooking a Festool vac up to a jointer, it’s like trying to use a garden hose to put out a house fire - not at all what it was built to do.
I think the low profile style is just not enough vertical, and the lack of a funnel shape to keep the fine dust from being picked back up from the cyclone on the edges.
Yeah the come style is certainly better, although I’m impressed with the Oneida using it in the shop. Best low profile system I’ve used by far.
The tall oneida cyclone one is even better If you don't mind the height. It's amazing.
Yep, have one of those too. The low pro fits under my miter station though, so perfect for that space
Also, Oneida has a tall cyclone that fits on top of the Festool with sustainer clips. And like yours, my festool bag stays virtually empty after months and months.
The Festool offers a HUGE advantage for heavy use/jobsite use in being stackable and portable. The expense goes into a space and time tradeoff; every other solution will require some DIY packaging to gain these benefits. (Of course, if you are a member of the Festool religion, you aren't even reading this. 😊)
For many of us home-use guys, it's good to do the greatest sawdust production outdoors. Without some kind of vac connected, a sliding miter saw can throw a LOT of dust and chips, but it doesn't hold a candle to a thickness planer. Sanders are of course the champions for fine dust, which you don't want to breathe. For what I can do on my driveway or patio, the yard vac (which we NEED with our trees) does a fine job of pickup without trailing hoses all over.
Yep, the portability and compatibility within the Festool system makes it worth it for a lot of folks. And agreed, I know a lot of garage woodworkers do a lot of work outside. It’s a great option 👍🏻
I have the Oneida pro plus Ridgid set up. I’m just new to woodworking and this seemed like a reasonable setup for my garage (I have to put my stuff away). I’ve easily created 8 pails of dust and chips in the past 2 months from using my planer and jointer so without the Oneida it would be a lot of vacuum bags, so I think your cost analysis is not accurate and it’s definitely worth the money to buy a cyclone.
If you are using this for a jointer and planer (I'm guessing benchtop?), then yes it makes a lot of financial sense to buy one. However, given the hose size on these, and the amount of chips created from jointers/planers, most people use these size separators with small tools (think sanders, biscuit jointer, etc) and have larger separator setups for bigger tools. My financial analysis was that you calculate how much you would spend on bags, and if it outpaces the cost of the separator in a short time, as in your case, it's worth it.
For the little bit of difference between the the three options, the Festool is WAY overpriced and not worth it. You're paying for the name. I don't want to have to sell a kidney just for a name brand. I'm perfectly fine with the Oneida. Thanks for the great comparison!!
Agreed - thanks for checking it out!
I originally printed one I found on the interwebs (It looks pretty cool! taller cyclone version) that attaches to a 5 gal bucket. This was before I got a new shop vac that uses bags. My original shop vac didn't have the ability to use bags so printed my cyclone to help save the filters. Now that I have a newer one that uses bags, I might ditch the cyclone. The bags are cheap enough!
I'm also curious to see my performance loss with my cyclone vs none. And also, does the bag in the vac cause any measurable loss??
No, I have never noticed any loss without bags - if anything it helps since your filter doesn't get clogged like it does with the bag out.
@@garagedwellersww Next time I empty the bag I'll have to measure with and without a bag to see what my CFM (or wind speed) is
Do you have the d36 festool hose?
If so, that adapter you have is it 3D printed and somewhere available?
Yep, it’s a d36. I got the adapter from toolcurve.com. They do all sorts of 3D printed adapters.
What are those green hoses you have going on?
They are festool braided anti static hoses. The greed braided covering is anti-snag, so they glide over stuff pretty well and don’t get caught.
@ Thanks!
How about a wakeup call to shop vac mfr's to make an all-in-one or plug-n-play? I bought Festool CT years ago and filled the first bag in about 10 minutes. I don't spend enough time in the shop, but when I do, I find my cheap-self reaching for my little Shop Vac, or my Craftsman large shop vac.
An all in one would be awesome.
For me, I need it to keep me and my boys from tracking sawdust into the house.
Good dust collection is important!
I don't have one. I'm OK with that.
That’s good - it is definitely not a necessity!
think only place you went wrong is with things that product large amounts of chips like benchtop thicknessers and jointers. for them cyclone is a must, they could fill bag in minutes even with 55lt drum and cyclone on my thicknesser still have empty it after around only 20min of work
Oh I think you absolutely want staged separation for big chip items. However, most jointers/planers (even benchtop models) need higher CFM/lower pressure systems than you get through these types of dust extractors. These are really designed for smaller tools, but Oneida makes bigger cyclones for those applications too!
I want one for sandblast cabinet
Another tick for the Festool:
If 2 businesses do the exact same job (quality of work) and one is cleaner + looks more “with it” people will perceive the job was better done and therefore be willing to pay more.
Agreed!
Oneida cyclone that fits on top of the Festool, not this bucket topper version. And in my dream world, I want a CT26 with about a third of the bag capacity, yet all of the power and features. Yes I know the make smaller Festool vacs, but they don’t have the power, and the cyclone robs power.
The CT 15/25/Midi all have 130 CFM, while the 26/26/48 have 137 I believe. So they’re pretty close. I have both a 15 and 26 and it’s tough to tell a difference.
Bags are a pain to change and messy. The cyclones are worth every cent. Even to vacuum water my buddy had a water line under the sink break and he used his to clean the mess. No bag change. And I have the Cen-Tec cyclone. Best so far and priced reasonable.
I have three vacs in my shop and I agree - I have a lo pro on one, and a dust deputy on the other two. I love that they save on bag changes personally!
All I use is an old pillow case that is ziptied to the inlet and keeps the filter clean and easy to empty and reusable 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
I think the #1 benefit of these is simply lengthening the time between dumping the garbage. The bucket roughly doubles how long you can go. A minor convenience, but a good one if you have the floor space. Great test!
Agreed, I really like mine for this reason too.
Even in the shop I would like something like the Festool cyclone separator. I still haven’t found anything else in that form factor. There’s plenty of other brands of dust collector vacs Im surprised no one else has added a cyclone product yet that Ive found.
Oneida makes one that fits on the Festool vacs with a cyclone top - Dust Deputy Ultimate Systainer. It is amazing in terms of performance, but you’re right the Festool wins hands down in terms of form/functionality with the Festool system.
@@garagedwellersww I just remembered Milwaukee is releasing a "PACKOUT Compact Debris Separator". I hope it's good.
So when the Festool has no dust on the filter, where is the dust going?
Into the bag. All Festool DCs come with a fleece bag. "But I have to replace a bag?" Yep and those bags are a whole lot less than the $100+ HEPA main filter.
Editing to add: Actually, I'm not sure with his test. He shows the bucket without a bag so who knows?
I didn’t use the bag in these tests just to show you what would get into the bag, but @buckrogers2491 is correct - the festool bags capture pretty much all the fine dust. Between the Oneida and the festool bags, nothing really makes it to the HEPA filter.
A fourth option is to make one with a metal garbage can and a bit of plywood. Lots of capacity and pretty good performance.
I’ve seen these, and had something similar on a Rockler wall mounted dust collector in the past. Definitely a good option for people who don’t want something pre-made.
any Festool extractor and any dust deputy , works great. I got the Fest dust deputy , its cool, but yes more for the system proffesional, Fest vacs are by far superior to any cheap shop vac, with bluetooth to the tools and remotes , hose quality, portability, decibels, even used as a cabinet mover on site......just get one , or two 🤪nice video
Once I got a Festool vac I knew I would never go back. They're so good.
Regarding the Festool.
It's not just portability. I had a cyclone. By being between the vac and the user end hose, it was constantly in the way, moved around, often fell ...and eventually broke.
There is a *LOT* to be said about having it stacked on top of the vac *while* in job site.
In customer's houses, it does look more professional, but I tend to think that if makes more sense to charge enough to cover the change of filters over time. Unless it's a big job and you are brining in a lot of gear.
For sure - the cyclones tend to get very tippy and in the way, and take up much more space.
Got the dust deputy and it collapses the home depot bucket.
Interesting - wonder if the Oneida bucket is thicker?
Set the bucket into another 5 gallon bucket, it stops the collapsing. I don’t understand all the physics involved, but it works.
@@davidoliver3136 I ditched it. I just need something for metal shavings so not worried about dust. All the hoses and bs are just not for me.
Verbose
Loquacious
@@garagedwellersww yeah! What you said.
I am looking into a $7000 vac for concrete dust 😢
First, I would love to see along this ones a test with a good diy cyclone.
Second, from what I see here, there is not much of a difference from the priciest to the lower one... so...
Big difference in cost, and the Oneida had a clear advantage in terms of minimizing impact on the vac’s performance.
@@garagedwellersww But what with a diy cyclone? A good one? Because I saw a lot of them made in the past years.
Also, thank you for your test.
I dissagree. A weekend warrior usale needs good dust collection due to the small shop.
Withoute the separation the sucktion level decrease the more the vack fills up
Having used all three extensively, the suction also decreases when the separator starts to fill up (less so with the Oneida).
@@garagedwellersww yes but i found thats it due to the separation efficiency decreaces as the cyclon fills over 50% tgats when the filters start to get cloged witg fine dust again
Sorry, but there is NO REASON to buy the Festool. Extra 7-8 hundred dollars for portability is foolish reasoning.
The pros I know who work on site in the Festool ecosystem say it is for them. But it sure is expensive.
I would have liked to have seen the weight of the 6 piles of extracted dust. Your verbage, calling them all a dust extractor is interesting. Some people make a big deal that extractors are just inherently better than shop vacs w/o explaining what they feel has to be different to be called such. I have no clue why one would be named differently (your way of referencing) than the other. Can you weigh in on this terminology aspect?
I believe that technically, dust extractors are designed more specifically for wood dust use - HEPA filters and motors/suction designed to capture fine dust without losing suction. Shop vacs are designed more for large debris and wet/dry functions.
@@garagedwellersww
Thanks for your reply! 🤓👍
Filter full? Not sure if I call that filter full as you had very little dust in the vacuum and as we all know the filter needs some dust to filter out more so it not floating around n the shop. Looks more like you looking for flow vs. dust control as floating around in the shop.
Not full in the literal sense of can't take any more, and it was of course expected because I was running the test without bags. I was using flow as a surrogate for performance - if you lose suction/flow, then dust collection at the tool drops, which means more fine dust floating around the shop. Having used all three extensively in regular use, the Festool especially leaves a lot more dust in the air/on your work surface (especially notable when sanding).
I'm pretty sure mph isn't the right metric to have been measured. I think CFM is what you should have measured. There is some correlation between windspeed and CFM, but you can't really quantify what is being gained or lost in terms of actual performance with windspeed. It's not a horrible measurement, but the data doesn't really tell you anything other than which is better. You just can't quantify how much better. But measuring CFM is a lot more expensive to measure than windspeed, so I completely understand why windspeed was measured. I would have like to see weights on the dust collected, but I'm not even sure that matters as these devices are as you properly demonstrated are about fines which don't really have all that much mass. But I would have been more interested in seeing how much dust was blown off the filters instead of seeing you just clean off the filters. This could have been done by shaking the dust off the filters into a bag, it wouldn't have been perfect as you'd still have to blow off the smaller fines left on the filters, but it would have demonstrated something about what got through to the vacuums.
I still don't think you justified your demand that I watch your video. I pretty much had the same thoughts about what I'd buy before and after watching the video. These were basically, I could by the Home Depot thing which would help and is convinient to purchase or I could spend about the same for the Oneida with a little more effort that's probably better or I could waste a lot of money on a Festool. I'm not suggesting that Festool is a bad brand, but I'm just not spending $1000 on a shop vac. You could put Rolls-Royce on that thing and you'd never convince me that something that has a more expensive filter than an actual vacuum is worth the money. I really think you should have said this too. But you didn't. So I'm calling you out. Vacuum $100 vs $115 filter. I understand that that's a Hepa Filter which actually has health benefits while the Rigid filter only protect the motor. Still I have a Dyson vacuum in my home and the filters aren't $115. They aren't half of that. Dyson is one of those fancy brand vacuums that are overpriced. I know this, I still have it because it doesn't throw dust out the exhaust, but they aren't gouging me on filters or bags which don't even exist. I spent a lot on the vacuum but maintaining it is more than reasonable in upkeep costs. I can't say that $115 is at all reasonable.
Thanks for the thoughtful comments.
Good question about CFM. There are calculations you can do for it - they involve looking at the area of the hose outlet, the change in air velocity at the inlet and end of the hose, and then a few constants in the equation. I used the same hose in all settings so the only variable in the equation that would change is the wind velocity. So it is a surrogate for CFM - you are correct, not the measure that shows exact performance, but a surrogate given all other variables in the calculations remain constant.
What I can say for the vacs, having owned shop vacs, rigids, the Festool CT 15 and 26, is the Festool does a better job at dust collection, better pre-filter collection, and lasts longer. Using these a lot, for my lungs and longevity of machines (as well as a 3 year warranty), I think they’re worth it, however you are right, it’s a stupid amount of money. The smaller Festool vacs in the $300-400 range are probably the sweet spot.
My main goal was to make sure people who are in the market for these things understand they do have a negative impact on performance, they are not a necessity, and that by doing a simple analysis of how many consumables you go through with whatever setup you prefer, you can figure out if the price of a separator is worth it to you.
I can guarantee not a single person that watches this videos cares about what you would like to see or if he justifies you watching the video. He took the time to do the tests and pass on the results. Go back to playing with your Dyson in the corner.
Another Festool fanboy...
…and another Festool hater.
I take the filter off the vacuum when using a dust collector. Why bother leave it there to get clogged
The filter should keep fine dust from getting pumped out into the air in your shop, so I do think it’s important.
Performance of the cyclone is irrelevant - you would never ever use it without second stage filter anyway… whether it is bag+hepa, just bag or just hepa is a personal choice… as for me I hate clutter and I would pay any money for a rectangular box with two holes on the same side that neatly fits into a cabinet 🙂
It is relevant in that losing suction leads to less dust collection at the tool, and thus more dust in the air where you are working. I used the Festool for a year+, and noticed a lot more dust in the air and on my work surfaces, especially with sanding. You’re completely right about the convenience though - it fit really nicely into my cabinets. And I totally get the use on the job site too.
It is important that you understand enough about how a shop vac runs...
The shop vacs have an internal fan that is run by a motor. That combo has a defined OPERATION CURVE... that is, for every airflow value, there is a corresponding vacuum "pull", so that at varying flow values, the pulled vacuum does vary.
The thing is that the internal impeller inside the vacuum has a narrow zone of operation where the efficiency of that fan is satisfactory, but if you restrict the flow too much (either by using a too narrow hose or placing a too restrictive cyclone, the system loses a lot of efficiency. The fan and motor of shop vacs is designed for working with the typical pressure drop of a typical sized hose and the accesory attached to the hose and no more. A well designed separator (like the Oneida) adds a moderate or low pressure drop, therefore, the typical shop vac will maintain an almost full flow together with an adecuate suction level. If you put attention, you will see that the Festool cyclone, in spite of the high price and famous namebrand, was badly designed and causes an excessive pressure drop, which results in taking the fan and motor of the vac, to go outside of the flow versus vacuum level range where the design of the vacuum can operate efficiently.
Congratulations for Oneida for doing a good engineered design, as they correctly MATCHED the Pressure Drop of their device to the typical operation curve of a typical shop vac, therefore optimizing both the airflow and the vacuum pull!
@@alfredomarquez9777 by performance I mean how much chips it collects, not resistance to airflow
This is such a useless video. These “tests” are all over RUclips. There’s no question the Oneida low pro is the hands down the best of its type. The hideously expensive elitist green product is so far out of the other 2 separators orbit as to be useless in this video.
It’s out of orbit in two ways - way more in price, and way less in performance.
They're for concrete, grout and drywall. There, I just saved you 20 obnoxious minutes.
I’m glad the obnoxiousness came across 🤘🏻
This is the stupidest dust collector I have ever seen from festool and it will not be as good. Didn't buy it and never will
Infact, festool prices are so outrageous right now that I am designing my own tracks etc.