Talking Anthropology, Creation Myths, & Religion with Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2020
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Music provided by Epidemic Sound
Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey is available on the Epic Games Store here, or on a current-gen game console near you:
www.epicgames.com/store/en-US...
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I rarely comment, but I really am compelled to add something, to be included in this brief discussion of the creation myth, as it rose out of this game that didn't intend to bring about such discussion, but came regardless.
Joseph Campbell, influenced first by the dances and rituals performed by the native americans, became infatuated with the mythic figures that live alongside the lifestyles they lived, which technology wise, didn't match the civilized societies that he himself lived in. But they were much more in tune with spirituality and found not the meaning of life, rather the experience of being alive. Joe additionally lived through the Scopes Monkey Trial, which resulted in an intense debate on whether or not evolution should be taught in public schools - throughout his life, he lived this inner whiplash experienced between the majesty of the church and the holy symbols, and then going to his public school science classes. It's not fun losing your faith and wonderment of mystery. Skipping over several years later, he would begin the outward and inner journey to discovering the similarities found within the religions/mythologies that have endured the tests of time. And to explain these similarities, one would have to guess that they either came by diffusion, that one culture visited and spread their belief to the other, or separate development, which then opens us to the possibility that there's something within us that feels inclined to bring forth the mysteries, the questions of one's own existence and meaning for life into a belief of another reality inaccessible to the senses.
And that's a beautiful thing, really, because all of these myths are beautiful, empowering metaphors that speak to the experience of a human life. Campbell sees no conflict between religion and science - that myth takes the science of the day and penetrates it to the mystery of the actual living of a human life, giving us not only what the facts of reality mean, but what they mean to us.
I always enjoy your work George, but it surprised and delights me to see my favorite gaming journalist open the games community to broader subjects that speak to our own human experience. Keep up the great work, and stay healthy!
Now this comment is podracing.
"Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower."
- Karl Marx, "A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right"
God I love Joseph Campbell, I have never been very religious but I was given one of his books by one my favorite teachers after his retirement and it made me interested in mythology. I don't agree with everything he says, but if anyone is interested in some of the stuff mentioned in this video, please read Myths to Live By. It's fantastic.
Most if not all creation myths are in direct conflict with scientific fact.
Maybe Campbell's "whiplash" would have been less severe if he had not been required to subject himself to cognitive dissonance in the name of "beautiful metaphors". I don't find that to be very empowering.
Wow, the fake "conflict between science & religion," that's some retro shit right there. Stands to reason there'd still be some folks batting that nonsense around; I'd almost forgotten all about it. Took me a moment to figure out what Bunnyhop was referring to when he brought it up.
Science is the most boring dogma humanity has ever devised, but God never destroyed the entire planet's ecosystem; science will have that shit underway within the next couple of decades. Hard to argue with results like that.
Man, this really is the type of game not suited for a numerical review system.
why??
@@aturchomicz821 joke regarding the creator taking critisizm hard and replying with that defense.
@@aturchomicz821 Because it's doesn't fit into a genre that has established expectations. Being this experimental, whether or not a reviewer will like it comes down more to personal preferences, rather than how well it plays with a certain genre's tropes. For example, there are a lot of FPSs out there, so you could easily judge a new FPS's shooting mechanics against other games in the genre, but this game can't really be compared to anything, so there's no critical consensus as a reference point.
@@Awesomebaconman123 Not really my point
Art and number scores are such a bizarre challenge if the art is so off beat and different. And with the games industry, experimental doesn't ever really get as much recognition or coverage, unless it's experimental in an "acceptable" sense or experimental in a stable and typical framework.
Am I making sense?
I get why George was more excited for this video than the climate change one; this one let him mention the Odyssey again.
Jokes aside, this was a really neat topic and it's cool to see something came out of this game other than the initial reaction it got on launch.
I have never been so interested in a game i know i would hate playing.
This. I'd watch a video or two, but never buy
Insert your own Pathologic joke here.
ruclips.net/video/cYZZve4rVJg/видео.html here's a great review to curb the excitement
THIS SO HARD
Never heard of Pathologic?
They shoulda named this "The First of Us"
I know you say this as a joke. But honestly, that's a way better title! More intriguing and catchy.
The First of Us is a game I wanna play immediately. Though it might get some annoyed looks from Naughty Dog.
Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey is a game I only really want to get into after George makes a video about it, but I still laugh at for the silly video game name.
i've seen that meme too...
Funnily, its speculated that Volume 3 of the trilogy will have that name if the developers continue their original plan.
(Volume 1 being titled "Before Us").
It's important to keep in mind:
"It's great to be liked"; "But the best response was from the community, from the people who get it"
There's nothing wrong with making something for people who get what you're doing. If you know what your making is not for the largest population of people possible that is fine.
I think that when you make a piece of art, there is a decision to make (among many others of course): Do you want to appeal to as many people as possible, or do you want to focus into a narrower, but more 'specialized' audience? To me it feels like you have a limited volume of work, and you have to decide if you want to make it shallow and wide, or deep and narrow.
This to me is what explains 'cult classics' in general, with their small but very dedicated fanbases, but a concrete example of that for me is the game Pathologic. That game was so weird and demanding that few people bothered to get into it, but if you search for the few extensive video essays about it on here, you'll find a genuine passion for a deep experience that rewards just as much as it demands - if you are up for it.
New Objective:
Give Birth!
Seeing that is how I knew we were having a baby after that night.
Just realized that Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey. Outer Wilds and Kerbal are all published by same publisher. For some reason that feels so wholesome. Sure hope they discover/support more nerdy developers...
It's almost like they're developers who actually love games
Kerbal was bought by the publisher, since then it was a downward spiral.
not Wilds... Worlds. Outer Worlds is by Private Division
@@MrAlterEcho actually it *is* outer worlds (not wilds), the publisher in question (that published kerbal slace program and ancestors) is private division
@61 Cygni the dlc used to be free mods
2015: "look, is that whacky Metal Gear channel"
2020:
2020 look its that wacky game political analysis channel
He's better than ever
Noodle channel
George wanted to be a teacher, that explains his recent vids
Have you not seen his lecture videos? Standard private school teacher uniform 👌
George is a teacher
Always took his videos as excellent lectures or an opinion piece. I enjoy his break downs
His sentence structures melt my ear holes with bliss.
All good entertainment teaches
I'm almost sad you didn't end with "Thanks to today's sponsor Displate, for giving me Dismoney to put Disfood on Displate."
I am so glad that I'm not the only one who enjoyed this journey, sure the game has flaws, but I loved evolving so much, that I did every evolution! I even started walking upright way before entering the plains
It's amazing how this game has so many flaws yet is still so fun for the right people. There's honestly so much annoying stuff in this game and I still love it.
George is back baby! Noodle shots and George socks for everyone.
This is an incredibly tangential point to make, but since the video has such an emphasis on anthropology and the human condition and it's evolution, I figured i'd note it: 19:05 "That foundational Bronze age struggle between man vs nature": The issue here is that the "bronze age" isn't a specific period or stage of human civilization, rather it's just a specific period of Near Eastern and European history (and likewise, the examples of myths you give are all Near Eastern/European), so it's not globally applicable, even to other similar societies, and as sucxh using the Stone/Bronze/Iron age as a "default" pathway of societal advancement cause issues when you try to fit societies outside of the West into it.
As an example, Mesoamerican civilizations like the Aztec and Maya. Most people would call these "Stone Age", since they primarily used stone and wood tools and are viewed as less advanced then other historical civilizations as a result of this and a few other reasons of varying validity/factualness.... except that's dumb, because there's also plenty of way Mesoamerican civilizations absolutely trounced not just Bronze ages ones in complexity, but Iron age ones, too:(and I promise this all goes somewhere and isn't just me listing off cool accomplishments): The largest Mesoamerican cities such as Tenochtitlan, Teotihuacan, etc hit populations in the hundreds of thousands, the *millions* if you count some of the giant megapoltic sprawls that radiated out from the larger Maya cities like Tikal and El Mirador; dwarfing the largest cities of the Bronze and Iron ages and matching large cities from Classical Anitquity and the Medivial Period.
These cities likewise had pretty advanced interconnected canal, aquaduct, resvoir, and drainage systems, sometimes outright with running water, toilets, and pressurized fountains. Aztec hygine and sanitation practices were cutting edge globally, with extremely regular bathing, washing of the hands, face, and mouth, daily washing of streets and buildings and collection and re-use of waste (for dyes and fertliziers) by civic officials. Their medical science, especially with herbal remedies, was likewise cutting edge, with various European doctors including the Royal Spanish Court physician travelling to Mexico to document Aztec medical and herbal techniques and knowledge; with the Aztec having basically bonatanical labs were plants were bred and tested for medical properties and categorized into formal taxonomy. And in basically any other socetial regard they were at least comparable to Bronze age socities...
...And yet, they DID almost exclusively use stone and wood tools, didn't use wheels for transportation, or even invent the sail. Things that seem utterly basic and foundational to Eurasian socities, they lacked and thrived without: Trying to measure them by Western/Eurasian standards and developmental models just doesn't work, because they were developing along a parallel pathway. You can't assume things about the human condition when there;'s no such singular thing, at least in terms of urbanized sedentary societies.
looks like SOMEONE got a bachelor's degree
@@nafeel4539 Nah, just somebody into Precolumbian/prehispanic history as a hobby.
This was very insightful, thank you for taking the time to share this. I now have a new perspective that I didn't have before :)
@@MajoraZ haha yeah...
When you skip techs in Civ.
Little things like 14:43 are why I love this channel.
I think you should stop making videos. You just repeat the same thing that everybody already knows and don't contribute anything new to anything. Take a 2 or 4 year break, learn about things and then come back. Because until then you are just a dog barking on a tree.
@@samtepal3892 lol what's your problem? His videos are just as good as bunnyhop's.
Besides he's not even talking about his channel, he's just showing appreciation for George's.
@@HelloWorld-xd5mi You're too kind, Hello World. Especially as I've got a huge respect for George's work.
And Samte Pal... Nah.
@@Raycevick No worries man, love your videos, hope to see more soon
@@samtepal3892 If enough dogs bark up the same tree, maybe EA will let Criterion make another Burnout, instead of just another Need For Speed.
I remember reading reviews of this game when it came out and even not having played it, from the reviews alone I felt like a lot of them were missing the point. Like the biggest complaint a lot of them had was that the game was hard to understand and they felt lost, almost like some sort of primate in an unfamiliar world. That's weird I wonder if it's some kind of thematic choice? No it must be that it's a badly made game.
Most people don't think for themselves because they weren't told to.
That's the thing though, the average reviewer may think they're measuring how good or well-made a game is, but actually they're measuring how pleasant they are. "Am I receiving constant dopamine rushes while playing this? No? Must be bad then". That's why video games are struggling so hard to grow out of its adolescence.
@@franciscofarias6385 I remember Total Biscuit talking about Spec Ops saying that it wasn't necessarily an enjoyable experience but that didn't mean it was a bad one and I think that's what a lot of reviewers miss.
@@tymandude1510 And as a counterpoint I remember Super Bunnyhop's The Witness review. He's one of the voices I enjoy the most when it comes to video games, but he, like many others (Joseph Anderson for instance) spent the whole review complaining about how frustrating it was to only solve puzzles over and over again, engaging with the game only on its most superficial level and making no attempt to interpret the material (like really? All those audio logs, video clips, statuettes, optical illusion, etc, they don't amount to nothing?)
I saw a video that was talking about why it was so fucking confusing. I don't remember who it was from. It starts off with systems that are exceptionally particular without giving any clue or indication of what you're supposed to do. For example, George shows a clip where it says "Make a baby" but it doesn't explain the 5 very particular and clunky steps before that happens. I'm sorry, but you can't make the argument that they're going the way of the Pandas and are too stupid to mate. An ounce of explanation would've helped a ton. The objective may as well have been "Hack the mainframe."
2 videos less than 2 months apart from each other? George are you ok?
We're being spoiled
The one good thing to come out of quarantine.
On the last podcast he said he had a harder time finishing the climate change video while this one he was really into, hence the long release gap and now two videos close together. x)
I remember seeing the first few people play this game but because of videogame conditioning they all started walking along the jungle floor and the constantly got assaulted cause they didn't think like they where in control of a 4 foot monkey but just another player character.
One thing that kinda bugs me is how the game let's you push back Tool use and creation a whoppin' 7 milion years but then again I don't bat an eye when playing as a knight with two dozen swords strapped to my back so it isn't that much of a critique.
Tool use is ancestral to our lineage. Both we and chimps use tools. And Australopithecus even modified stone into different shapes for different purposes, meaning they actually created new tools. It's not known when this evolved, but it does mean that whether or not we've been modifying tools for a long time, we've definitely been USING tools from the start. It is even possible that we started modifying rocks before Australopithecus evolved, but there is no evidence for this. Although we probably did modify sticks before that at least, since chimps do that.
2019 seems to have been a really good year for "experimental narrative open world games", with Death Stranding, Outer Wilds, and Ancestors.
Seeing as George is on a roll with these games, I highly recommend Pathologic 2, another game that would fit under this umbrella. It's a very tough survival game where you play as a doctor in an isolated early-20th-century town in the Russian Steppe during a violent plague, that may or may not be supernatural. You. have to survive, and find a cure, in 12 days - all while learning the town's history and navigating a bizarre culture.
This and Outer Wilds tied for my GOTY 2019. It has some of the weirdest, and best, writing in the medium, combined with survival mechanics that perfectly reinforce the mood and themes.
If these types of game interest you, and you're prepared for a very difficult experience (which can be toned down with, or up, with very good difficulty customisation), Pathologic 2 is a must play... I also kinda just want to see what George would make of it!
I *sincerely* saw this pop up, felt my heart skip a beat, punched the air and internally said 'Yes! George went and put out a video about Weird Monkey Game from the podcast!'
EDIT: alright fine, I am DEFINITELY picking this up on sale (EDIT 2: It IS currently on sale for 50% off but is currently an EGS exclusive, coming to Steam in August, make of that what you will). On the podcast it just sounded like...not 'so bad it's good' but 'so slightly janky that it's weirdly compelling' but god damn the way you talk about this game SELLS it so well, and ditto that just as much for the dev you're interviewing. I feel genuinely happy that his take is 'we made what we were going for, and I don't care about the metascore'.
Wait Super Bunnyhop has a podcast?
@@ShortRauk Yeah, it's called 'Dad & Sons' and you can find it on Soundcloud and the 'Super Bunnyhop Second Channel'.
Nice rhyme in that final paraphrase.
Combined with the 10€ (or regional equivalent) coupon you can get from the EGS, the game is only 9,99€ right now, so I picked it up.
@@WarMomPT Is Liam still on the show? I stopped listening after he was victim blaming a dude who worked for a videogame company whose boss started shoving him around.
I literally just finished your 2 last videos. Best timing I had regarding a new upload ever xD
Just finished ur nan
Wow, seriously amazing video! You always bring a profound take to the games and topics you discuss and I really appreciate that on this platform.
That's what I call a great and different essay about videogames! Thanks! Keep on doing such great work.
Thanks for setting up and doing an interview.
What a truly sublime video you've made here. Just outstanding work.
This, and last weeks video, are really REALLY good, George. Some of the best content on your channel!
Oh hell yeah, it's the ancient monkey game. I'm glad it's been given more improvements since the last time I saw it, and I like how George described its appeal so thoroughly.
Finally some love for Ancestors, thanks George.
Another great video from SBH.
I wonder how much the "Stranding" Genre as it's called will take off (or flop) in the next few years.
Market trends paint it as high risk and the titles in the genre as a whole have a pretty bad CBA. Don't expect too many of these outside of passion projects.
Did you see that trucking game that came out recently? They had a trailer parodying one of the Death Stranding trailers.
Thing is, this is what an open world is. For so many years people have defaulted to "filler terrain between objectives" to the point where there is no point of said open world.
It'll take off. The generation of devs & players that think every game has to be Doom are finally dying off.
As many people, I was interested in the conceipt of Ancestors when I've first heard of it, only to be completely underwhelmed by the reviews at the time of its release.
And If I'm having the time of my life playing this work of genius, it's because of this video and your (as usual) trustworthy analysis.
Gaming journalism as a whole must evolve generations - paraphrasing the game - before being able to extract meanings of a work of this kind. Only you, George, and a few more can do that properly today.
The game has abysmal, and very fucking annoying combat. To the point where I consider it unplayable, despite the indeed very innovative concept.
I knew you'd be making this video when you tweeted about it, im happy it's here to watch
Gotta say you’ve been one of my favorite channels recently can wait to se more of this,subscribe!
Ah, the Puu Puu Pii Pii species is doing very well as we can see here.
After all the mutations and radiation they have gone through it only natural to do well
Yo his name is George, ok?!
It's unfair how much better George's videos are than the "video essays" that pollute RUclips these days. Great job as usual.
your videos are a breath of fresh air in this youtube landscape
This game is literally Tactical Bonobo Simulator and it looks fun as fuck
I'm new to your channel, and I got to say this is probably the first time that I was actually emotionaly moved by a game review. Thank you.
This is an amazing video and amazing game, thank you for making this, George and Panache
Thanks for delving into this George - I was definitely one of those who wrote this one off due to the initial reviews - really impressive that not only was there something great there to begin with, but to know that it's really come into its own over time. I suppose you could say it's... evolved.
Finally a new video from you! no idea what its all about but im sure ill enjoy it
It really makes you feel like an Austrolopithecus Africanus.
Honestly, I wrote off this game at launch and after watching this I'm fascinated by it.
And thank you so much for bridging the videogame medium with other areas of thought so gracefully George. It's what I've come to love about your videos.
I wanna try this now, I only got exposed to the dog pile about how complex it was so it's awesome to hear that there's wonderful work under it
5:30 That accent... I didn't know *Ancestors* was made in Québec!
he dropped a "tsé" at some point, hahah
@@lovepepsi7477 *"When they're young, you play 'Peekaboo! Peekaboo!' t'sais"*
Your comment had me rewatching that part. It also made me laugh the first time I heard it.
These videos always feel like a documentary, must be the narration and presentation. Well played sir, well played
LMAO i love how you play games. Rainbow Six: Banana Squad looks pretty fun, I'll give it another shot.
An amazing review and video. I really appreciate your work, human.
Would you call a speedrun of this game an Evolution%?
I sped run ur nan 2 seconds world record
Well.... ruclips.net/video/bTC8QPjI3YI/видео.html
I have never even heard of this game and it Fascinates me. I am so happy you shared this and learning about how it was made is so cool!
Very cool video, George, thanks!!
Thanks for the vid. Always great.
I love this video! Thank you for exposing me to this game. I can't wait to play it in 5-10 years when I have a computer that can run it.
TWO BUNNYHOP VIDEOS IN A ROW?! thank u kind sir
Ooooh Bunnyhop! We had a content drought from you and now we get TWO uploads in the span of a week? You the best mane
Man this game flew right under my radar. Sounds really interesting. Thanks George!
Interesting video, thank you! Cool to hear some actual science went into this game.
And on the same day Kurzgesagt uploads a video about the Lascoux cave paintings? Is today some holiday I missed out on? XD
Only a week after I watched the Cave of Forgotten Dreams and played Far Cry Primal for the first time. Must be something in the air
@@RobinOttens I've been playing Primal as well. Also watching/reading about current anthropological findings more than usual. There's a lot of fascinating stuff being discovered lately.
Whoo! 2 videos in a short period of time!
Thank you for this video George, without this I wouldn't have given this game a chance but now after 40 hours and counting, it's my favorite game in decades.
I honestly didn’t think this game would be as engaging as it is. Love it to the max!
Hearing Marc compare the game to a learning exercise for toddlers really sold me on the experience. Excellent interview.
Two videos in a week? George, you spoil us.
I’ve been waiting for someone who’s opinion I trust to review this game.
Same. Thought it looked super interesting, but then it came out and the reviews seemed to suggest otherwise. Now I feel more interested again
I just wanted to say thanks for deciding to make this video. I had literally never even heard of this game before I saw your video on it about a week ago despite following probably dozens of different game critics, picked it up on sale for just $10, and still haven't been able to put it down or stop thinking about it since. I know that RUclips's algorithm isn't often kind to channels that try talking about lesser-known games, but I do really appreciate that you still took the time to make this video and introduce it to people anyway.
I got the game when it got released on ps4 and fell in love with it. A big portion of games I start I dont finish.
Because its just the same most of the time, the video game industry is full of simple Action games with light RPG mechanics or simple RPGs with light action mechanics everything has the same style of crafting and recource management.
It has become so rare that we see something different.
So even if the press dont like the execution they should at least praise the originality.
I was constantly reminded by early day minecraft where you didnt have the wiki and youtube tutorials to tell you everything.
You had to experiment with everything to see how to build a full set of armor, completely lost in the games mechanics.
I wish more games would try to be their own thing and not a rehash of whatever mechanic is popular at the time.
I didn't gave enough to the game, since my computer lags, but this great interview, renewed my interest to it. Thanks!
Now you really made wanna play Ancestors, George.
I did not think this game was for me before, but now I am probably gonna check it out
I think this is the first time where I see someone look at this game and see beyond moment to moment gameplay. Great work.
Great video Bunnyhop- I'll have to have a crack at this one. :) (Cheers for getting me into System Shock 1 and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri too by the way.)
Thanks for the review and bringing this game to my attention. Getting some Rain World vibes from what was shown so I'm definitely going to pick this up.
I routinely say that there is no such thing as games journalism, just marketing of varying quality. I appreciate you coming back again and again to prove me wrong.
Whoa! Long time no see!
Picked it up on a whim when it was on sale.
Reminded me how useful a tool the brain is for us - especially having played it pre patch when it was just audio cues xD
George, you activated my neuron
George your motherfucking videos are the best!!!!! The way that you analyze video games is a credit to the medium itself! Hope you keep at it man
That was great Ad read. I didn't even skip it!
I'm so glad this games exists. Its in my library, I just haven't played it yet
How have I never heard of this game? I need to play it, this looks awesome.
I always get a smile whenever I see George rhyme.
Pumping out content!
I've had my eyes on this game for a while, but it wasn't until I listened to George talk about it on Dad & Sons that it sparked my interest. This convinced me to pick it up at the Epic Games sale.
I haven't been so hyped for a game in so long
i love that george still uses a 360 controller
The quote from DeBlois about why they make games makes me appreciate this game more. Seems like the team who made it put a lot of passion into it, and are really proud of what they created.
Rarely get to play games anymore, but I’m just about done Death Stranding, might try this next. Great video!
Man, this game is awesome!
Glad it god more friendly towards casuals now because it help it keep relevancy and new players to catch up.
Really have a blast when all was like a mystery, who know how Manny hours I took seeing others play and discussing things that can be done and things that dont! XD
Waiting for the next part of the Journey!
Woah, what is this? Two videos in the same month? I gotta call the cops sir, you can’t provide us high quality content that often George
Gotta love that radio ad from GTA at the end :)
I am going to purchase this one, seems very interesting
Man, I really want to play this game now
Man i learned something today from this video
This was hilarious, insightful, and just super interesting. I dismissed this game immediately but, again, you've totally sold me on something I never thought I'd be into.
i had literally just found about this game before you had uploaded this lol
You sold me on this game in five minutes. What a cool idea! I never even heard of it since it's exclusive to a single PC distribution platform
George makes a banger video again
Two videos in a single week?!?!?!
Go get em George!
Well, I guess I'm buying Ancestors now. Thanks George, great video!
Thank you for making this video! This game got almost universally middling to negative reviews, and I never would have played it without your input. Since I watched this, I thought the game looked fascinating, so I played it and loved it. Thanks.
I didn't mind Ancestors. It was a VERY original concept in a industry bereft of them with a lot of unique gameplay. They had a very specific vision for their game and they achieved it, and they sold it at a discounted price to boot.
My biggest issue is the game eventually turns into a completionist challenge. You won't have enough evolution points unless you check-off all the majority of the accomplishments in your list, which amount mostly to "discover this" or "defeat X number of X". There also didn't seem to be any point to progressing any further, as all the late-game abilities seemed to be mostly all "X improved by X%" upgrades, no more gameplay-changing abilities like bipedalism. Maybe if you were able to progress a bit further into human history, to the point where you could craft flint spears and settle villages, then the game would have been really great.
Not the first time that happened with a Hideo Kojima game. Tenchu and MGS1 came out relatively close to each other and were pretty similar in regards to how you went about normal enemies (sneaking around in a 3D space to take them out with a ranking system on how well you were able to achieve that goal). Tenchu even came out a few months ahead just like with the two you mentioned.