A great video with some good thoughts. I just made the decision to do a drain and fill of 3 quarts into our 2016 Highlander with 140k miles. Before I decided to do this- I sent in a sample of the fluid to Blackstone Labs for analysis. This revealed mostly just wear and tear consistent with the mileage on the fluid, so I elected to proceed.
Wow! What a testimony of Toyota's build quality! I assume it's a family vehicle with mixed local and highway driving (20k miles/year), and I am sure everyone will appreciate the high mileage analysis after normal driving conditions, which serves as a good benchmark. Thank you for sharing it!
Thanks GoGator.I'm at 131,000.The original owner did not change so I'm going to change myself soon.What I plan to do is change it and change again 5 thousand miles later 2 times and every 30,000 after that.What you think about that?
@@clarkclark7687 I think you’re probably fine to do that, personally I would not. I want to keep some friction material around. Don’t want too much new fluid. I’m just going to drain and fill every 30k. I bet that is more than 95 percent of Highlander owners will do and they all seem to last a while.
I didn't change the ATF on my 06 Sequoia until 300k miles...I didn't know any better then. I decided to drain and fill for the first time and it kept on chugging along 20k miles later. Toyota 5 spds is so overbuilt. Obviously now that I know to change the ATF more often, I will continue to do another at 30k miles interval.
This is incredible! I wouldn't have touched it at this mileage but am glad it worked out fine. Curious about how fluid looks/feels/smells at 300k. If fluid condition is okay, the transmission oil filter (likely a strainer) is probably fine and in need of no replacement. But in case you did replace that too, let us know what you see/think of it holding up to this high mileage. No doubt Toyota/Aisin overbuilt this beast and that gives us confidence in the OE quality. Thanks for sharing!
This is great! I can imagine the filter (strainer) still in excellent condition. I wouldn't bother replacing the filter but doesn't hurt to do so if you use OE filter and pan gasket, and be gentle on the pan bolts. :)
Doesn't hurt to be cautious and take it step by step. Once you know the condition of the fluid and confirm there are no issues, you can proceed with regular maintenance.
I have a 2014 RX350. When you drain and fill you only get about 2 and 1/4 quarts. The capacity of the transmission is 7. So you would want to do this 4 times in one week intervals. I changed the filter/strainer at 100k. It’s almost comical to not do that. Those filters get full of crud. Lastly I’ve used Idemitsu TLS LV. They are the manufacturer of Toyota WS. It’s $8-$10 cheaper per quart.
Good point about the Idemitsu fluid! I do have a different perspective on a few points here: 1) You won't get 100% fresh fluid unless you flush it, which I strongly discourage. Even after 4 drain-and-fills, you will still have 20% old fluid in the system, which is in fact beneficial especially for the following reason (point #2). 2) What is the mileage on your 2014 RX350? I assume it's a high mileage and a bit late (or has been under more severe driving conditions) for the fluid change. And that explains the clogged up filter. Given the condition of your vehicle, it makes sense to replace the filter. I am not so sure though about the flush (replacing 4 times). It sounds like there is already a lot wear/tear on the clutch materials in the fluid... but hope for the best!
@@profsg I have 120k mileage on it. It’s a city driver stop and go. I purchased it at around 105k. It shifts and operates smoothly. The previous owner neglected service and bought in to the “lifetime” fluid. Thanks for the advice.
@@BigDipper79 No problem! This is what I suspected. City driving creates lots of wear and tear. Good to know it's still smooth after all these miles. Keep us posted.
Damn, I bought an IS 300h 2015 with 270k km on it (so, around 170k miles), no towing, mostly highways, the ATF was NOT replaced. The eCVT to me seems like it´s running well, I would never have guessed the mileage. Now I am in doubt whether to let it run while it runs but probably give up some longevity or replace the ATF and risk making it worse.
Toyota eCVT on these hybrid models are very different from automatic transmissions and even CVTs of other manufacturers. Good news is eCVT does't have the type of clutch materials with potential wear and tear to cause problems when you replace fluid at a high mileage. In short, the concerns/risks I discussed in this video does NOT apply to your eCVT and it's relatively safe to replace transmission fluid even when you have driven a lot of miles on it.
@@dieselpower3202 For Toyota eCVT, it's typically the same WS fluid as on automatic transmissions. This should be the case with 2015 IS 300h but double check your owner's manual. It should list Transmission Fluid Type under Specifications / Maintenance and usually after Engine Oil/engine-related specs.
Thanks for the vid! I recently bought a 15 Lexus GX460 with about 59k miles. As i recall, the car care nut's suggestion is 6 years/60k miles. With this being said, is there any risk of doing drain and refill now?
Sure! With 59k miles only, it's a perfect time to do a drain and fill. And then do it every 30k miles. I don't see a major reason of concern because of the age. The major risk is internal wear due to use (miles). Transmission fluid doesn't degrade quickly by simply sitting there--as engine oil does by mixing with gas--unless it has been contaminated. BTW. Your GX460 is a beast and I am sure will last a long long time with good care. And here are some tips for long-term Lexus maintenance (focused on RX and most of them apply to GX as well): ruclips.net/video/dZMJty_9iBc/видео.html
I have a 2014 ES350 that i bought last year. I could not get any history on whether any previous transmission fluid change was done. I am at 126,000 miles and i noticed some transmission whine, especially in the mornings. Considering doing a drain and fill. would it be a good idea at this stage? Thanks.
Sounds like the transmission is crying (hungry) for fluid. It can be low on fluid level so definitely check the level and condition of the fluid. If it's low, add and set it to the correct level. If the fluid condition is not too bad (e.g. burnt), you may consider a drain-and-fill so it will flow better when cold (morning).
I would guess that I am not alone in wondering what experience and training the "Professor" has that are behind his opinions and guidance, In the case of AMD, he shares that he is a Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician with more than a decade of full-time dealer experience, as well as a Toyota and Lexus owner. Please share your background with us so that we can determine what comfort level we should have in following your advice and recommending it to others. Thank you.
Thank you for your question! I appreciate your curiosity about my background. I am a Professor (no need for the quotation marks :) with a training in Information Retrieval and Data Analytics. While not a professional mechanic, I am a proud owner of Honda, Toyota, and Lexus vehicles, and have had extensive experiences with high-mileage cars. The opinions I shared in the videos are based on an analysis of relevant evidence and personal experiences. I do not claim to have the same level of professional expertise as AMD does; however, each of us is sharing the result of an analysis and offers different takes on the past data. As a DIYer, I believe it is important for the community to share and hear different perspectives. With my expertise in data analytics, I do want to caution not to over-generalize any analysis. After all, no data (even professional experiences) is representative of all unique conditions and the evidence I've experienced and collected may be subject to the survivor bias. But again, it helps to consider different perspectives.
Sounds good! There will always be various opinions on all matters. However extensive real world experience plus the capability to analyze data provides the professor a basis for trusting the opinion put forward. I appreciate this channel.
@@profsg 'hands on' is very valuable, it will show you tricks of a trade, tell you how to & how not to, what's first what's second, which parts or materials to use, what to be caution about etc.etc. ,,,but like the old saying states - 'don't fix things that are not broken', data analysis is extreemly valuable aspect especially in engineering of any kind, ask aueronautical, metalurgical or structual engineers ,,,hats OFF to people who see potential problems just by looking at numbers or graphs on paper,,,it's like they have that 6th sense & 3rd eye,,,,overdooing things is kind of like the other great saying - 'no good deed goes unpunished',,,, thank you Proffessor !!!!
i have a 2012 toyota camry it shudders a bit at 40 kmh thats because of the torque converter the previous owner did a transmission flush at 125,000 km im currently at 207,000 km i went to a transmission mechanic and he told me to leave it alone i just want your opinion on this too thanks
Now that you have only driven it for 82000 km (50,000 miles) with the flushed/new fluid, I'd consider a drain and fill and see how it goes from there. If it runs smoothly after, then you can continue with regular drain and fills. If you are uncertain about the transmission/fluid condition, the best is to take a small sample for oil analysis before deciding what to do.
I'm wondering why a transmission flush is considered a bad idea. I've been doing drain and fill services every 46,000 miles (75,000 km), and now that my car is approaching 200,000 km (125,000 miles), I'm thinking about doing a transmission flush. I'm curious to know the reasons behind the concerns regarding a flush.
If done correctly, you might be fine with a flush given the good maintenance and fluid condition. But now that you have done a great job with regular services and have supposedly no issue with the transmission, why would you change the routine for a flush? While your transmission clutch materials are likely in good shape and won't suffer (e.g. slip) in completely fresh fluid, it's a real risk for many vehicles at this high mileage still with factory fluid. Some shops prefer flushing if they already invested in a machine to do so and it's very efficient to replace a lot of fluid (good for business). But again, you did it right with regular drain and fill, and should continue to do so.
@profsg thanks for your thoughtful reply. From my understanding, transmission fluid has five main functions: 1. Lubrication - providing anti-wear and friction modifiers, etc. 2. Heat Removal - helping to dissipate heat from the transmission. 3. Cleaning - removing wear particles and other contaminants. 4. Hydraulics - acting as hydraulic fluid in the torque converter and CVT pulleys, maintaining proper tension in the CVT chain, etc. 5. Sealing - forming seals within the transmission. The reason I wanted to do a full flush is that, with each drain and refill, I can only replace about 5 to 6 liters of fluid, while the rest remains in the system. Over time, I believe the anti-wear and friction modifiers, along with the base oils, deteriorate due to heat, wear, and age. By fully flushing and refilling with new fluid, I hope to restore the anti-wear properties and potentially extend the life of the transmission. I understand that clutch friction material suspended in the fluid can sometimes aid in cases of worn clutch pack slippage. However, since I perform regular fluid drains, I’m hoping this won’t be a concern in my case.
@@postlet37966 Agreed! You are probably fine but, again, don't want any surprise on the last point (by cleaning clutch friction materials with 100% new fluid).I am not aware of any car manufacturer recommending a ATF flush; it's always drain-and-fill on the service manual. I'd instead consider a more frequent change, e.g. every 23,000 miles or drain-and-fill twice on your next service, to replace more fluid. With transmissions, there is no going back once damage is done. Be less aggressive on fluid change so you don't get surprise, even if you think it's unlikely.
Thank you for your reply, @profsg. Your point makes sense. Rather than performing a full flush, I will do more frequent fluid changes. I appreciate your input.
Unlike engine oil, transmission fluid won't degrade much in a sealed unit by sitting there. Driving frequency is not a major factor here. You can still follow the mileage interval. That said, driving conditions will have a major impact on the fluid. Besides towing, hard/city driving with a lot of start and stops will wear it down faster. You can change it more frequently if that's the case.
It's still early given the low mileage. But it doesn't hurt if you want to do it now. Just make sure to use the correct fluid and follow the procedure to set the correct level.
I got everything ready to change mine today. My car is at 243,000km (150k miles) mostly highway but now I see this and now I don’t know if I should change it
For mostly highway miles, you should be fine as it has much less wear and tear. Ideally, take an oil sample to check fluid condition but it is probably fine to proceed with a drain and fill.
@ I’m not even sure where I would be able to take it to have the oil analysis done. What are things to look for in the drained fluid before doing the refill. I have the Toyota atf-ws from the dealer. Just hope nothing goes wrong
You can request a oil test kit from Blackstone (www.blackstone-labs.com/), among others, for transmission oil analysis and mail the sample back to test it. If oil condition/degradation is acceptable with minimal metal wear, then it's generally safe to proceed with a transmission fluid replacement. But again, if you know most of 150k miles were on the highway, which is light driving condition, chances are your Toyota/Aisin transmission/fluid condition is okay.
If you drain the fluid already, while not entirely scientific, you could get a sense of fluid condition by its "look" and "feel." Apparently, it won't be bright red like new. It will be quite dark for sure, but you don't want to see/smell/feel black, burnt, and gritty or even sludgy oil with lots of metal shavings/particles. In this case, especially if you can hardly see any redness hue as it drains, doing anything to the fluid becomes very risky.
@profsg Well I got it done. Fluid was pretty dark but didn’t smell horrible, some small metal pieces I think at the bottom of the pan. Took it for a drive after and it was shifting better. So thank you for the great videos to help me to do it by myself since the dealer here said they don’t change the lifetime fluid!
Yes. 150,000 km is still below 100,000 miles. Unless the vehicle has seen very heavy use, like towing, I'd do a drain and fill on the Toyota/Aisin transmission, followed by regular maintenance (again drain-and-fill only) every 30,000 miles (50,000 km).
Considering a drain/fill on my GX470 but it has 195k hard miles and I don’t believe it’s ever been done. At least not in the 90k miles I’ve owned it. Seems like this is a risky endeavor.
It's indeed risky unless most of these miles are high-way and light-load. I'd recommend taking a transmission fluid sample and getting an oil analysis done, e.g. through Blackstone labs, before making a decision. This will reveal how degraded the oil is and specifically the extent of clutch material wear. Keep us posted!
Is it really such a bad thing to use aftermarket fluid? I have 2018 sienna that takes ws fluid. I already have two gallons of Valvoline multi vehicle atf that is ws compatible. Shouldn’t it work fine?
I discussed this in another video too. Aftermarket fluid like Valvoline Max Life is a very different fluid than WS and doesn't meet Toyota specification. The fact that it claims to be compatible with so many different types of transmission fluid, including Dexron ATF that older Toyotas used, means it's never designed specifically for WS-compatible transmissions. It might be better or worse. But IMHO it isn't worth the risk.
@@profsg You are exactly correct. IMO spend a few $ more and get the Toyota recommended fluid from the dealership. I had a Corolla that I changed the Tranny fluid. All 9 quarts every 40k. And the engine with full synthetic Amsoil 0-20 every 4k miles. It had 489000 miles on it. it got wrecked recently. I have my 2012 ES 350 now. HoweverI am looking for an old corolla to go to and from work. Keep my Lexus for weekends .
I'm planning to change my bought used Sienna transmission fluid with 122k. There was no record of it ever changed. My plan is to just suck out a few quart from the side fill hole instead of draining it. Anyone did it this way?
It's possible but risky for a couple of reasons. The current fluid level in the system may not be correct after 122k miles. Someone could have touched it (accidentally) and set it at an incorrect level. Even if it's at the correct level, you will need to put in the exact same amount you've taken out under the same temperature. I'd strongly recommend following the correct procedure and do it right: ruclips.net/video/2tKXyDsPPH0/видео.html I understand reasons people don't like the new procedure, having to raise the car, level it, and monitor the temperature to drain it. Here are a couple of tips to make it easier: 1) On certain vehicles (especially SUVs), you don't have to raise the car. Not sure Sienna has enough ground clearance; but you can test whether you can access the drain plug after taking the driver-side front wheel off (vehicle leveled with one side on jack stand). It works on RX350. 2) Monitoring ATF temperature doesn't require any advanced scan tool. A temperature gun can give you enough precision within the temperature range or, if you prefer, you can program a $20 OBD interface with Torque Pro app to monitor ATF. Check out this video and see comments below for the PID/formula on your vehicle: ruclips.net/video/ytdcZ1X8EeQ/видео.html Again, I'd recommend not taking the shortcut but follow the procedure to replace the fluid and set it at the correct level.
I have a 2007 Es 350 with unknown history and 170k miles. I had to get a new/used tranny put in that they said had 90k miles on it ( but how would I really know) What is your suggestion on changing the fluids for this?
The purchased used unit should be drained and refilled with new fluid for sure. Any fluid sitting inside the unit is no good, due to oxidation /moisture/etc. Before it's installed, it's a good idea/time to remove the pan, inspect the fluid, and change the filter. See how much shavings/particles are in the fluid and the condition. At 90k miles, the fluid should be darker but hopefully not burnt and the amount of materials is acceptable (to the capacity of the magnets on the pan). Also makes sense to replace the fluid filter or strainer but do NOT use any aftermarket filter. OE parts only and you won't regret it.
I have a 2016 Lexus IS with about 130K miles and planning on doing a drain&fill. Is it too late for me? I don't have a history of the car's maintenance.
Beyond 120k, it's difficult to say and depends on the history of driving conditions. Some reported success at this mileage or even higher with a drain-and-fill, but these can be survivor's bias. It's your call. And if you do, one drain & fill and see how it goes. Best luck and keep us posted!
And I'd at least wait until the next oil change (5000 miles) before you know there isn't any issue and may consider another drain and fill at 30000 miles.
Replace the fluid every 30,000 miles for CVT transmissions. There is misinformation regarding "life-time" fluid on certain CTVs too. But even Subaru recommends a 50,000 km fluid change in Japan. The truth is CVTs are prone to failure without regular maintenance so make sure to replace it if you have a CVT.
I have a 2007 accord 2.4 VTEC with 275000 miles. The engine is burning too much oil. Any Good recommendations to fix this issue or should I look for a new car. I changed PCV valve.
Great job maintaining it to this high mileage! How excessive is the oil consumption? And I assume no leak and valve cover gaskets etc have been replaced/addressed. Yes, PCV is the first thing to look, but what about EGR and passage? While this isn't necessarily a major issue, the Honda engine may have required valve adjustment every 100k or so, which is rather straightforward to do. The 4 cylinder isn't equipped with the notorious VCM so that is not a concern as on a V6. Some people use higher grade oil to mitigate the consumption, but this isn't ideal for engines with VTEC.
Thanks for the detailed reply, Professor. I do have a small leak at the rear main oil seal but too expensive to repair now. Not sure if this is the main cause. I don't see any oil on the ground. Not sure what you meant by EGR and passage? I have not done any valve adjustment. Thanks Professor.
Sure! If you don't see oil on the ground (or burning smell of oil), the leak is probably manageable. EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation, and there is a valve plus passages on the engine to recirculate gas back to intake. If the valve or passage is clogged--which does happen over time--it will contribute to the oil burning. The link here has a picture of an EGR valve on an Accord: hondatheotherside.com/how-to-fix-a-p0401-code-on-honda-accord/ At close to 300k miles, a Honda engine is likely needing a valve adjustment (recommended every 100k or so).
Until Toyota changes its specification or any aftermarket fluid meets it's specs, it's best to stick with WS. Full synthetic or not, if it doesn't meet Toyota specification, it's not designed to provide optimal protection and performance for a Toyota transmission. Not to mention meeting additive requirements in the fluid.
@@profsg I meant specifically Toyota WS. There are number of WS compatible fluids based on synthetic base stocks. Don't think I have ever heard of people going to Amsoil blue label fluid, for example, and having a problem. I know some people are scrupulous about using dealer oil etc. But I suspect the dealer fluids are actually mediocre at best, at least when the standard is as old as WS is. I could be wrong, and sometimes am.
Appreciate your input! And yes, I meant Toyota WS (World Standard) fluid too. There are claims of compatibility but so far I haven't seen any fluid meeting Toyota WS specification. My favorite example is Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle transmission fluid, which claims to be compatible for many different makes and models including Toyotas. But, while I like Valvoline products and use them extensively, it makes no sense for one fluid to be "compatible" with so many different fluid types such as Toyota Type T, WS, and Dexron. Again for WS, I haven't found any aftermarket alternative designed specifically for it. Yes, there are lots of reports of success using Amsoil and Valvoline but theres is survivor bias and we don't know the long-term effect of these fluids on a Toyota WS transmission. I'd trust Toyota who designed and tested their transmissions for its fluid specification and won't take the risk here.
I should also add that there are jobs where aftermarket alternatives meet manufacturer specifications. On Toyota/Lexus differentials with 75W85 GL-5, for example, any aftermarket fluid meeting the API and SAE specs here can be used and I have no hesitation in using them. In other cases, the car maker didn't even design or manufacture the transmission and you don't need use their branded fluid. For example, my 2017 BMW X3 comes with a ZF transmission and I use ZF fluid (very cheap from RockAuto), instead of a BMW-labeled fluid (much more expensive and unnecessary): ruclips.net/video/cxvEk0ydXtg/видео.html
Unless it's all highway miles, it's rather risky either way. Before doing anything, I'd take a small sample, do an oil analysis, and, if the fluid condition is not too bad, you may consider a drain-and-fill to introduce a small new amount.
A great video with some good thoughts. I just made the decision to do a drain and fill of 3 quarts into our 2016 Highlander with 140k miles. Before I decided to do this- I sent in a sample of the fluid to Blackstone Labs for analysis. This revealed mostly just wear and tear consistent with the mileage on the fluid, so I elected to proceed.
Wow! What a testimony of Toyota's build quality! I assume it's a family vehicle with mixed local and highway driving (20k miles/year), and I am sure everyone will appreciate the high mileage analysis after normal driving conditions, which serves as a good benchmark. Thank you for sharing it!
How the transmission fluid change work out?Any problems?
@@clarkclark7687 It's been a couple thousand miles at least, and everything is fine. Going to drain and fill regularly now, but not too often.
Thanks GoGator.I'm at 131,000.The original owner did not change so I'm going to change myself soon.What I plan to do is change it and change again 5 thousand miles later 2 times and every 30,000 after that.What you think about that?
@@clarkclark7687 I think you’re probably fine to do that, personally I would not. I want to keep some friction material around. Don’t want too much new fluid. I’m just going to drain and fill every 30k. I bet that is more than 95 percent of Highlander owners will do and they all seem to last a while.
I didn't change the ATF on my 06 Sequoia until 300k miles...I didn't know any better then. I decided to drain and fill for the first time and it kept on chugging along 20k miles later. Toyota 5 spds is so overbuilt. Obviously now that I know to change the ATF more often, I will continue to do another at 30k miles interval.
This is incredible! I wouldn't have touched it at this mileage but am glad it worked out fine. Curious about how fluid looks/feels/smells at 300k. If fluid condition is okay, the transmission oil filter (likely a strainer) is probably fine and in need of no replacement. But in case you did replace that too, let us know what you see/think of it holding up to this high mileage. No doubt Toyota/Aisin overbuilt this beast and that gives us confidence in the OE quality. Thanks for sharing!
Rav4 drop the pan change trans fluid and filter drain fill at 60000 miles and the fluid is not too dark
This is great! I can imagine the filter (strainer) still in excellent condition. I wouldn't bother replacing the filter but doesn't hurt to do so if you use OE filter and pan gasket, and be gentle on the pan bolts. :)
i would figure halfway draining the fluid from a 4.0 tacoma would be good since i know in the 140k miles the truck was driven the atf wasnt replaced
Doesn't hurt to be cautious and take it step by step. Once you know the condition of the fluid and confirm there are no issues, you can proceed with regular maintenance.
I have a 2014 RX350. When you drain and fill you only get about 2 and 1/4 quarts. The capacity of the transmission is 7. So you would want to do this 4 times in one week intervals. I changed the filter/strainer at 100k. It’s almost comical to not do that. Those filters get full of crud. Lastly I’ve used Idemitsu TLS LV. They are the manufacturer of Toyota WS. It’s $8-$10 cheaper per quart.
Good point about the Idemitsu fluid! I do have a different perspective on a few points here:
1) You won't get 100% fresh fluid unless you flush it, which I strongly discourage. Even after 4 drain-and-fills, you will still have 20% old fluid in the system, which is in fact beneficial especially for the following reason (point #2).
2) What is the mileage on your 2014 RX350? I assume it's a high mileage and a bit late (or has been under more severe driving conditions) for the fluid change. And that explains the clogged up filter.
Given the condition of your vehicle, it makes sense to replace the filter. I am not so sure though about the flush (replacing 4 times). It sounds like there is already a lot wear/tear on the clutch materials in the fluid... but hope for the best!
@@profsg I have 120k mileage on it. It’s a city driver stop and go. I purchased it at around 105k. It shifts and operates smoothly. The previous owner neglected service and bought in to the “lifetime” fluid. Thanks for the advice.
@@BigDipper79 No problem! This is what I suspected. City driving creates lots of wear and tear. Good to know it's still smooth after all these miles. Keep us posted.
Damn, I bought an IS 300h 2015 with 270k km on it (so, around 170k miles), no towing, mostly highways, the ATF was NOT replaced. The eCVT to me seems like it´s running well, I would never have guessed the mileage. Now I am in doubt whether to let it run while it runs but probably give up some longevity or replace the ATF and risk making it worse.
Toyota eCVT on these hybrid models are very different from automatic transmissions and even CVTs of other manufacturers. Good news is eCVT does't have the type of clutch materials with potential wear and tear to cause problems when you replace fluid at a high mileage. In short, the concerns/risks I discussed in this video does NOT apply to your eCVT and it's relatively safe to replace transmission fluid even when you have driven a lot of miles on it.
@@profsg I'm in the same boat. eCVT with 150K miles, what type of Toyota fluid do I need to use, WS or FE?
@@dieselpower3202 For Toyota eCVT, it's typically the same WS fluid as on automatic transmissions. This should be the case with 2015 IS 300h but double check your owner's manual. It should list Transmission Fluid Type under Specifications / Maintenance and usually after Engine Oil/engine-related specs.
Thanks for the vid! I recently bought a 15 Lexus GX460 with about 59k miles. As i recall, the car care nut's suggestion is 6 years/60k miles. With this being said, is there any risk of doing drain and refill now?
Sure! With 59k miles only, it's a perfect time to do a drain and fill. And then do it every 30k miles. I don't see a major reason of concern because of the age. The major risk is internal wear due to use (miles). Transmission fluid doesn't degrade quickly by simply sitting there--as engine oil does by mixing with gas--unless it has been contaminated. BTW. Your GX460 is a beast and I am sure will last a long long time with good care. And here are some tips for long-term Lexus maintenance (focused on RX and most of them apply to GX as well): ruclips.net/video/dZMJty_9iBc/видео.html
I have a 2014 ES350 that i bought last year. I could not get any history on whether any previous transmission fluid change was done. I am at 126,000 miles and i noticed some transmission whine, especially in the mornings. Considering doing a drain and fill. would it be a good idea at this stage? Thanks.
Sounds like the transmission is crying (hungry) for fluid. It can be low on fluid level so definitely check the level and condition of the fluid. If it's low, add and set it to the correct level. If the fluid condition is not too bad (e.g. burnt), you may consider a drain-and-fill so it will flow better when cold (morning).
I would guess that I am not alone in wondering what experience and training the "Professor" has that are behind his opinions and guidance, In the case of AMD, he shares that he is a Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician with more than a decade of full-time dealer experience, as well as a Toyota and Lexus owner. Please share your background with us so that we can determine what comfort level we should have in following your advice and recommending it to others. Thank you.
Thank you for your question! I appreciate your curiosity about my background. I am a Professor (no need for the quotation marks :) with a training in Information Retrieval and Data Analytics.
While not a professional mechanic, I am a proud owner of Honda, Toyota, and Lexus vehicles, and have had extensive experiences with high-mileage cars.
The opinions I shared in the videos are based on an analysis of relevant evidence and personal experiences. I do not claim to have the same level of professional expertise as AMD does; however, each of us is sharing the result of an analysis and offers different takes on the past data. As a DIYer, I believe it is important for the community to share and hear different perspectives.
With my expertise in data analytics, I do want to caution not to over-generalize any analysis. After all, no data (even professional experiences) is representative of all unique conditions and the evidence I've experienced and collected may be subject to the survivor bias. But again, it helps to consider different perspectives.
Sounds good! There will always be various opinions on all matters. However extensive real world experience plus the capability to analyze data provides the professor a basis for trusting the opinion put forward. I appreciate this channel.
Thank you for the feedback!
@@profsg 'hands on' is very valuable, it will show you tricks of a trade, tell you how to & how not to, what's first what's second, which parts or materials to use, what to be caution about etc.etc. ,,,but like the old saying states - 'don't fix things that are not broken', data analysis is extreemly valuable aspect especially in engineering of any kind, ask aueronautical, metalurgical or structual engineers ,,,hats OFF to people who see potential problems just by looking at numbers or graphs on paper,,,it's like they have that 6th sense & 3rd eye,,,,overdooing things is kind of like the other great saying - 'no good deed goes unpunished',,,,
thank you Proffessor !!!!
@@davidg.9942 Glad it's helpful! Appreciate your thoughts!
i have a 2012 toyota camry it shudders a bit at 40 kmh thats because of the torque converter the previous owner did a transmission flush at 125,000 km im currently at 207,000 km i went to a transmission mechanic and he told me to leave it alone i just want your opinion on this too thanks
Now that you have only driven it for 82000 km (50,000 miles) with the flushed/new fluid, I'd consider a drain and fill and see how it goes from there. If it runs smoothly after, then you can continue with regular drain and fills. If you are uncertain about the transmission/fluid condition, the best is to take a small sample for oil analysis before deciding what to do.
@@profsg thank you so much will do that
Drain and fill will NEVER damage the transmission...it is flush that potentially can...
I'm wondering why a transmission flush is considered a bad idea. I've been doing drain and fill services every 46,000 miles (75,000 km), and now that my car is approaching 200,000 km (125,000 miles), I'm thinking about doing a transmission flush. I'm curious to know the reasons behind the concerns regarding a flush.
If done correctly, you might be fine with a flush given the good maintenance and fluid condition. But now that you have done a great job with regular services and have supposedly no issue with the transmission, why would you change the routine for a flush? While your transmission clutch materials are likely in good shape and won't suffer (e.g. slip) in completely fresh fluid, it's a real risk for many vehicles at this high mileage still with factory fluid. Some shops prefer flushing if they already invested in a machine to do so and it's very efficient to replace a lot of fluid (good for business). But again, you did it right with regular drain and fill, and should continue to do so.
@profsg thanks for your thoughtful reply.
From my understanding, transmission fluid has five main functions:
1. Lubrication - providing anti-wear and friction modifiers, etc.
2. Heat Removal - helping to dissipate heat from the transmission.
3. Cleaning - removing wear particles and other contaminants.
4. Hydraulics - acting as hydraulic fluid in the torque converter and CVT pulleys, maintaining proper tension in the CVT chain, etc.
5. Sealing - forming seals within the transmission.
The reason I wanted to do a full flush is that, with each drain and refill, I can only replace about 5 to 6 liters of fluid, while the rest remains in the system. Over time, I believe the anti-wear and friction modifiers, along with the base oils, deteriorate due to heat, wear, and age. By fully flushing and refilling with new fluid, I hope to restore the anti-wear properties and potentially extend the life of the transmission.
I understand that clutch friction material suspended in the fluid can sometimes aid in cases of worn clutch pack slippage. However, since I perform regular fluid drains, I’m hoping this won’t be a concern in my case.
@@postlet37966 Agreed! You are probably fine but, again, don't want any surprise on the last point (by cleaning clutch friction materials with 100% new fluid).I am not aware of any car manufacturer recommending a ATF flush; it's always drain-and-fill on the service manual. I'd instead consider a more frequent change, e.g. every 23,000 miles or drain-and-fill twice on your next service, to replace more fluid. With transmissions, there is no going back once damage is done. Be less aggressive on fluid change so you don't get surprise, even if you think it's unlikely.
Thank you for your reply, @profsg. Your point makes sense. Rather than performing a full flush, I will do more frequent fluid changes. I appreciate your input.
Thanks. What if you do not drive the car frequently, is there a time limit to change ATF fluid
Unlike engine oil, transmission fluid won't degrade much in a sealed unit by sitting there. Driving frequency is not a major factor here. You can still follow the mileage interval. That said, driving conditions will have a major impact on the fluid. Besides towing, hard/city driving with a lot of start and stops will wear it down faster. You can change it more frequently if that's the case.
@@profsg Thanks. My 2017 LC200 has been driven only 40000 km and has not had any transmission fluid change, Do I still need to change it
It's still early given the low mileage. But it doesn't hurt if you want to do it now. Just make sure to use the correct fluid and follow the procedure to set the correct level.
I got everything ready to change mine today. My car is at 243,000km (150k miles) mostly highway but now I see this and now I don’t know if I should change it
For mostly highway miles, you should be fine as it has much less wear and tear. Ideally, take an oil sample to check fluid condition but it is probably fine to proceed with a drain and fill.
@ I’m not even sure where I would be able to take it to have the oil analysis done. What are things to look for in the drained fluid before doing the refill. I have the Toyota atf-ws from the dealer. Just hope nothing goes wrong
You can request a oil test kit from Blackstone (www.blackstone-labs.com/), among others, for transmission oil analysis and mail the sample back to test it. If oil condition/degradation is acceptable with minimal metal wear, then it's generally safe to proceed with a transmission fluid replacement. But again, if you know most of 150k miles were on the highway, which is light driving condition, chances are your Toyota/Aisin transmission/fluid condition is okay.
If you drain the fluid already, while not entirely scientific, you could get a sense of fluid condition by its "look" and "feel." Apparently, it won't be bright red like new. It will be quite dark for sure, but you don't want to see/smell/feel black, burnt, and gritty or even sludgy oil with lots of metal shavings/particles. In this case, especially if you can hardly see any redness hue as it drains, doing anything to the fluid becomes very risky.
@profsg Well I got it done. Fluid was pretty dark but didn’t smell horrible, some small metal pieces I think at the bottom of the pan. Took it for a drive after and it was shifting better. So thank you for the great videos to help me to do it by myself since the dealer here said they don’t change the lifetime fluid!
I have a 6 speed automatic (aisin) that has unknown history. Done 150,000km. Gearbox is working fine. Should I do a drain and fill? Or leave it?
Yes. 150,000 km is still below 100,000 miles. Unless the vehicle has seen very heavy use, like towing, I'd do a drain and fill on the Toyota/Aisin transmission, followed by regular maintenance (again drain-and-fill only) every 30,000 miles (50,000 km).
Considering a drain/fill on my GX470 but it has 195k hard miles and I don’t believe it’s ever been done. At least not in the 90k miles I’ve owned it. Seems like this is a risky endeavor.
It's indeed risky unless most of these miles are high-way and light-load. I'd recommend taking a transmission fluid sample and getting an oil analysis done, e.g. through Blackstone labs, before making a decision. This will reveal how degraded the oil is and specifically the extent of clutch material wear. Keep us posted!
if its real bad pour half the old fluid back in with the new fluid then do it again in another 10k miles.
Is it really such a bad thing to use aftermarket fluid? I have 2018 sienna that takes ws fluid. I already have two gallons of Valvoline multi vehicle atf that is ws compatible. Shouldn’t it work fine?
I discussed this in another video too. Aftermarket fluid like Valvoline Max Life is a very different fluid than WS and doesn't meet Toyota specification. The fact that it claims to be compatible with so many different types of transmission fluid, including Dexron ATF that older Toyotas used, means it's never designed specifically for WS-compatible transmissions. It might be better or worse. But IMHO it isn't worth the risk.
@@profsg You are exactly correct. IMO spend a few $ more and get the Toyota recommended fluid from the dealership. I had a Corolla that I changed the Tranny fluid. All 9 quarts every 40k. And the engine with full synthetic Amsoil 0-20 every 4k miles.
It had 489000 miles on it. it got wrecked recently.
I have my 2012 ES 350 now. HoweverI am looking for an old corolla to go to and from work. Keep my Lexus for weekends .
I'm planning to change my bought used Sienna transmission fluid with 122k. There was no record of it ever changed. My plan is to just suck out a few quart from the side fill hole instead of draining it. Anyone did it this way?
It's possible but risky for a couple of reasons. The current fluid level in the system may not be correct after 122k miles. Someone could have touched it (accidentally) and set it at an incorrect level. Even if it's at the correct level, you will need to put in the exact same amount you've taken out under the same temperature. I'd strongly recommend following the correct procedure and do it right: ruclips.net/video/2tKXyDsPPH0/видео.html
I understand reasons people don't like the new procedure, having to raise the car, level it, and monitor the temperature to drain it. Here are a couple of tips to make it easier:
1) On certain vehicles (especially SUVs), you don't have to raise the car. Not sure Sienna has enough ground clearance; but you can test whether you can access the drain plug after taking the driver-side front wheel off (vehicle leveled with one side on jack stand). It works on RX350.
2) Monitoring ATF temperature doesn't require any advanced scan tool. A temperature gun can give you enough precision within the temperature range or, if you prefer, you can program a $20 OBD interface with Torque Pro app to monitor ATF. Check out this video and see comments below for the PID/formula on your vehicle: ruclips.net/video/ytdcZ1X8EeQ/видео.html
Again, I'd recommend not taking the shortcut but follow the procedure to replace the fluid and set it at the correct level.
I have a 2007 Es 350 with unknown history and 170k miles. I had to get a new/used tranny put in that they said had 90k miles on it ( but how would I really know) What is your suggestion on changing the fluids for this?
The purchased used unit should be drained and refilled with new fluid for sure. Any fluid sitting inside the unit is no good, due to oxidation /moisture/etc. Before it's installed, it's a good idea/time to remove the pan, inspect the fluid, and change the filter. See how much shavings/particles are in the fluid and the condition. At 90k miles, the fluid should be darker but hopefully not burnt and the amount of materials is acceptable (to the capacity of the magnets on the pan). Also makes sense to replace the fluid filter or strainer but do NOT use any aftermarket filter. OE parts only and you won't regret it.
And after the transmission installation and initial fluid change, if you experience no issues, then follow a 30,000-mile fluid change interval.
I have a 2016 Lexus IS with about 130K miles and planning on doing a drain&fill. Is it too late for me? I don't have a history of the car's maintenance.
Beyond 120k, it's difficult to say and depends on the history of driving conditions. Some reported success at this mileage or even higher with a drain-and-fill, but these can be survivor's bias. It's your call. And if you do, one drain & fill and see how it goes. Best luck and keep us posted!
@profsg Thank you for your reply. Quick question: when would the slippage show up after the drain&fill, if it doesn't work out?
Yes, some issues like slippage may appear immediately, after a few miles. Others may take time to progress.
And I'd at least wait until the next oil change (5000 miles) before you know there isn't any issue and may consider another drain and fill at 30000 miles.
@@profsg So you're saying wait 5K miles after the drain&fill to make sure there are no issues? If it's fine, do another drain&fill at another 25K?
If you drain and fill two quarts ever50k for 300,000 mis it will be ok
Yes, regular maintenance is key, and drain and fill is the way to do it!
What about for cvt transmission?
Replace the fluid every 30,000 miles for CVT transmissions. There is misinformation regarding "life-time" fluid on certain CTVs too. But even Subaru recommends a 50,000 km fluid change in Japan. The truth is CVTs are prone to failure without regular maintenance so make sure to replace it if you have a CVT.
I have a 2007 accord 2.4 VTEC with 275000 miles. The engine is burning too much oil. Any Good recommendations to fix this issue or should I look for a new car. I changed PCV valve.
Otherwise the car is in good shape. I hope it's not the piston rings.
Great job maintaining it to this high mileage! How excessive is the oil consumption? And I assume no leak and valve cover gaskets etc have been replaced/addressed. Yes, PCV is the first thing to look, but what about EGR and passage?
While this isn't necessarily a major issue, the Honda engine may have required valve adjustment every 100k or so, which is rather straightforward to do.
The 4 cylinder isn't equipped with the notorious VCM so that is not a concern as on a V6. Some people use higher grade oil to mitigate the consumption, but this isn't ideal for engines with VTEC.
Thanks for the detailed reply, Professor. I do have a small leak at the rear main oil seal but too expensive to repair now. Not sure if this is the main cause. I don't see any oil on the ground. Not sure what you meant by EGR and passage? I have not done any valve adjustment. Thanks Professor.
Sure! If you don't see oil on the ground (or burning smell of oil), the leak is probably manageable.
EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation, and there is a valve plus passages on the engine to recirculate gas back to intake. If the valve or passage is clogged--which does happen over time--it will contribute to the oil burning. The link here has a picture of an EGR valve on an Accord: hondatheotherside.com/how-to-fix-a-p0401-code-on-honda-accord/
At close to 300k miles, a Honda engine is likely needing a valve adjustment (recommended every 100k or so).
Thanks Professor
Toyota WS is last century fluid, pure mineral fluid. There are better out there, full synthetic or Amsoil (100% synthetic).
Until Toyota changes its specification or any aftermarket fluid meets it's specs, it's best to stick with WS. Full synthetic or not, if it doesn't meet Toyota specification, it's not designed to provide optimal protection and performance for a Toyota transmission. Not to mention meeting additive requirements in the fluid.
@@profsg I meant specifically Toyota WS. There are number of WS compatible fluids based on synthetic base stocks. Don't think I have ever heard of people going to Amsoil blue label fluid, for example, and having a problem. I know some people are scrupulous about using dealer oil etc. But I suspect the dealer fluids are actually mediocre at best, at least when the standard is as old as WS is. I could be wrong, and sometimes am.
Appreciate your input! And yes, I meant Toyota WS (World Standard) fluid too. There are claims of compatibility but so far I haven't seen any fluid meeting Toyota WS specification. My favorite example is Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle transmission fluid, which claims to be compatible for many different makes and models including Toyotas. But, while I like Valvoline products and use them extensively, it makes no sense for one fluid to be "compatible" with so many different fluid types such as Toyota Type T, WS, and Dexron. Again for WS, I haven't found any aftermarket alternative designed specifically for it. Yes, there are lots of reports of success using Amsoil and Valvoline but theres is survivor bias and we don't know the long-term effect of these fluids on a Toyota WS transmission. I'd trust Toyota who designed and tested their transmissions for its fluid specification and won't take the risk here.
I should also add that there are jobs where aftermarket alternatives meet manufacturer specifications. On Toyota/Lexus differentials with 75W85 GL-5, for example, any aftermarket fluid meeting the API and SAE specs here can be used and I have no hesitation in using them. In other cases, the car maker didn't even design or manufacture the transmission and you don't need use their branded fluid. For example, my 2017 BMW X3 comes with a ZF transmission and I use ZF fluid (very cheap from RockAuto), instead of a BMW-labeled fluid (much more expensive and unnecessary): ruclips.net/video/cxvEk0ydXtg/видео.html
My 2011 Camry has 232000 mi. The fluid has never been changed. Would it be best to leave it as is? Or change the fluid?
Unless it's all highway miles, it's rather risky either way. Before doing anything, I'd take a small sample, do an oil analysis, and, if the fluid condition is not too bad, you may consider a drain-and-fill to introduce a small new amount.
That is why I like manual tranny instead of auto. No such thing as life time fluid as Toyota claims.
Absolutely! Regular maintenance like this really makes a difference. But nowadays, people are so quick to believe claims of zero or low maintenance.