A common misconception is that the Shelby/ Arning drop is to lower the car. This is actually a byproduct of lowering the upper control arm mounting points but not the intent. The main purpose of the Shelby drop is to give better camber gain of the tire when cornering hard and increase caster to give better feedback through the steering wheel. This gave the cars more responsiveness, feedback, and better handling characteristics.
Correct, but as you mentioned, it lowers the car. This video was an attempt to answer that question about the drop gained from the mod. While a video on the benefits of doing this mod would be valuable, it has been covered at length by others and I didn't feel I had anything new to add to that discussion. :)
@@bjsteg79 I think that without modification the ball joints can suffer from premature wear. They do make spacers that angle the ball joints to prevent this issue.
@@bjsteg79 generally yes. But the upper ball joints wear out wear out anyway. The three things excluding tie rod ends that wear out on a 1965-1968 Mustang are: upper control arms ball joints, coil spring saddles, and lower control arm bushings, idler arm. On the street the upper control arm doesn't move up and down a lot. The lower control arm bushing takes a lot of the car's forces. But I have never used a wedge for the upper ball joint. Also I have my own extra mod I posted just now.
I’m sure other have mentioned this but the arning drop wasn’t meant to lower the vehicle ride height. Relocating the control arm gets rid of positive camber as the suspension cycles during cornering events. Due to the geometry, a byproduct of relocation results in a drop of about 5/8” on most cars. A lot of people that do this modification are also replacing worn out droopy springs so in that case, the ride height may increase or show no change at all. Also, after dropping the control arm, it will need to be aligned if you want the tires to last and want to realize any change in handling characteristics. The shims that were on the upper control arms is good enough to get you to an alignment shop. Do not go with factory alignment specs…they suck and the car will continue to handle like an overloaded milk truck. You want as much positive caster as they can get which is usually around +2 and at least -1 degree of camber. No more than 0.25 degree difference side to side. 1/8 toe-in seems to work well on these cars. There are a ton of other steering mods to be done if anybody is serious about cornering but the alignment specs above with the arning drop will get you a nice handling street car.
@@AndyKruseChannel by the way, video was well done. Wasn’t trying to knock you or the video. Just getting info out there for enthusiasts just getting into mustangs. Just found your channel and was watching a few videos while having coffee. Lot of good Info, keep up the good work
Note" I repeatedly failed math in high school. I'm pretty sure they only graduated me so I'd stop breaking the woodshop equipment. That said, here's why the Arning/Shelby Drop will only lower your car by 5/8": The control arm can be lowered at the body, but not where it attaches to the spindle. You lower the arm by an inch relative to its mount to the body, but it isn't any lower at the spindle end. What lowers the car after the drop is the slight push of the spindle away rom the body and the resulting angle from the ball joint, which is roughly 5/8". So Andy's install is precisely what to expect from this mod. :thumbsup: If you want to lower your front end more than this, you'll need to look at different springs, or a coilover setup. People (including Shelby) experimented with lowering the control arm by more than one inch, but it results in premature ball joint failure from the extreme angle.
Just revisiting Andy's excellent video because of some new info and some personal experience. Kind of a long read, but it might save you some money and headaches. And, as always, "your mileage may vary". (This experience involves my '65 fastback, original T-code with a swapped 302/5-speed and all V-8 suspension components, plus GT350 steering components (manual steering box, pitman and idler arms) and 1" mid-eye leaf springs in back). With the wheels and tires all the same before and after modifications, the stock ride height (measured from the ground to the highest point of the front wheel arches) was 27". I added coilovers and adjusted the ride height to 25 1/4" (lowering the front suspension by 1 3/4" - the maximum I could get away with without bottoming out on the top of my sloped driveway and in any event probably as low as you'd want to go if you're running long-tube headers or Tri-Y headers). 25 1/4" gave me no problems in handling, no ground clearance issues over speed bumps, etc, and most importantly, no premature component wear. After a month I then added the Arning/Shelby drop (which as Andy illustrated will result in a slight lowering of about 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch, due to the UCA being pushed very slightly outward relative to the body). I compensated for that additional slight reduction in ride height by lifting the coilovers approximately the same amount. The final ride height with the corrected coilovers AND the drop remained at 25 1/4" (same as the coilovers with no Arning drop). Here's the thing - just that slight outward push combined with an already lower-than-stock height ruined my upper-ball joints after about 100 miles. I had to replace both of them, and they were both just three months old. The upside is there was enough cash in my swear jar to pay for two new joints. After that miserable task was completed I started doing some research about early Ford ball-joint failures and discovered Carroll Shelby's pit crew observed premature upper ball-joint failures in the Arning-drop GT350s. The joints were failing in about 1/3 the time of the joints in non-modified GT350s, and even resulted in a couple of near-catastrophic spindle failures during races, SO TEAM SHELBY STOPPED USING THE ARNING DROP after car #252! You will find that most of the guys racing original GT350s in today's vintage circuit are using aftermarket upper control arms with some adjustability, and already engineered with modified ball-joint mounting surfaces. You *may* be able to find a compatible "long-travel"/extreme-duty ball-joint that could do the trick (I'm thinking probably in the 4x4 community), but I haven't found one listed anywhere. So.... the bottom line is that if you're going to do the Arning/Shelby drop, only do it on a car not already lowered, and be diligent about regular ball-joint inspections. Alternately, if you're going to lower your car's spring height, don't do the Arning drop. The reality is that unless you're tracking your Mustang you're not really going to notice the handling difference gained by doing the drop, anyway.
I agree, the Arning Drop will not be perceived by most drivers. The handling benefits are there, but most won't understand why the car handles the way it does. It's interesting to hear about the ball joint failures. The upper ball joints on my control arms were done when I purchased the car, and I am planning to replace them soon, but I'll have to keep an eye on things as time goes by with the new UCAs. :)
Hi Andy, The Shelby Mod has nothing to do with changing the ride height.The fact that it lowers the car slightly is a coincidence. The purpose of it is to change the camber curve to make the outside wheel gain negative camber as the car rolls in a corner there by making the turn in better and removing the factory designed understeer. At the original height the upper control arm effectively pushes the top of the spindle into positive camber on turn in making the car roll onto the outside of the tyre and understeer. Lowering the rear pick up point with the Shelby mod allows the control arm to pull the top of the arm in and keep the tyre tread flatter on the road. I hope this is useful info, I'm not trying to be a smart arse. Jay
Great video, and cool car. I’ve always loved those old fords. I have a 1968 ford fairlane 500 fastback, my dream car and I was fortunate enough to buy it earlier this year. Keep up the good work!
5/8 of an inch is what I got when I did mine too. Really helped with the handling though. I ended up cutting my coil springs to get the ride height where I wanted it. Look at Eaton GT spec springs for your leafs.
Eaton knows what they are doing 100%. I used to build AC Cobras. So if the front end lowers, where does the weight shift. I know just wondering if you know. I also took it one more step with my modification from the 1980s. Drill the new Shelby drop holes. Bias the upper control arm shaft rearward 1/8th of a inch. I also slightly hexed slots for greasing. Here is the real trick. 1974 Maverick spindles have built in caster offset ball joint mounting. This allows for fewer shims. I have one shim per bolt. Then, I took a 1968 bog block Mustang coil spring and cut 1/3rd of one coil from the top. This allows the front to stay almost level, so no rolling fender edges. I easily used 235 x 60 x 15 tires. Inch front sway bar, all polyurethane bushings, Monte Carlo and Export brace. I also beefed up the upper control arm metal from underneath with 1/4 inch bar block for the two coil saddle bolts on each side. I used a 5/8th inch rear sway bar. The real leaf springs I added one half of an extra leaf. And if the alignment shop will let you, sit I the car, so the car is zeroed with your weight. The car handles unbeilivable, rides great on the highway. Also, most people never rebuild their steering box. Do that also. The shackles on the rear leafs are a bad idea when they can be reversed eyed and arched different.
The Shelby drop isn't so much about lowering your car, it's about improving the angle of your A-Arm and improve your bump-steer. I did this on my 66 mustang and it is night and day difference in handling and driveability.
Great Video, the Shelby Drop isn’t really for lowering the car as much as the suspension. Autorestomod Jeff Ford has a great explanation of this on his channel. Thanks again for the video
Any small drill bit (1/16" or 3/32" bit) works great to get the hole started, then you're suppose to use a 17/32" drill bit for the main hole, so there's enough clearance for the bolts. However, if needed, you can use a 1/2" drill bit, but you might find the bolts are a little snug. Also, there's less forgiveness on the exact location of the bolt holes with a 1/2" bit, so just a heads up on that part. :)
Andy, your videos are great! I have a fully restored '66 mustang convertible. The wheels and suspension are stock spec. Considering all of the mods you have made to improve the handling of your mustangs, what made the biggest difference? Tire aspect ratio? Suspesion kit? Sway bar? Others. Thanks for the advice. Keep up the videos.
Thanks! Great question. I'm leaning towards the tires as the right tire (size and stickyness) can improve driving feel, cornering stability, stopping distance, and feedback from the road. But then good suspension (springs, shocks, bars) can also amplify how great the tires are and provide better looks in the subjectivity department. Throw in some chassis stiffening and now we're hitting level 9000! I recall the largest noticeable different in how the car drove before and after a given part was adding the rear sway bar. There's a whole argument waiting to take place on whether the rear sway bar or a panhard bar is a better choice for these cars, but I did enjoy how the car felt after adding that rear bar. I wish I could give a single answer, but in reality I'd say all those parts worked great as a whole and everything complimented the other parts.
Thanks! Yes, there's no need to separate the UCA while doing this Mod. The brand for that spring compressor is "OEM Tools", and the model number is 27035
After doing the Shelby drop I've had a big hassle getting the alignment shop to align it to the correct new specs. The keep insisting that it needs to be done to original Ford factory specs. Which does not have enough positive caster. Very frustrating.
I have heard of other having issues finding shop willing to work with those shims more than getting the alignment dialed in. You might have to take it to a different shop? Good luck! :)
I'm curious what the vertical difference was on your template, between the original holes and the small pilot holes. Are those 1" center to center or perhaps a bit less?
The template is designed to be used on the 65-66 cars and the 67-70 cars. For the 65-66 cars it's the offset hole, hence the "down an inch, back an 8th" phrase. For the 67-70 cars, the other hole is used which is directly below the starting hole. I marked the hole I needed for my car just so I wouldn't make the mistake, especially on camera. :)
Hi Andy, your car may have had the springs swapped side to side.I'm in Australia and '60s falcons had a slightly longer spring on the drivers side to allow for the weight of the driver. Don't know if you guys did as well but I'd imagine the idea came from the US falcon.
I also took it one more step with my modification from the 1980s. Drill the new Shelby drop holes. Bias the upper control arm shaft rearward 1/8th of a inch. I also slightly hexed slots for greasing. Here is the real trick. 1974 Maverick spindles have built in caster offset ball joint mounting. This allows for fewer shims. I have one shim per bolt. Then, I took a 1968 bog block Mustang coil spring and cut 1/3rd of one coil from the top. This allows the front to stay almost level, so no rolling fender edges. I easily used 235 x 60 x 15 tires. Inch front sway bar, all polyurethane bushings, Monte Carlo and Export brace. I also beefed up the upper control arm metal from underneath with 1/4 inch bar block for the two coil saddle bolts on each side. I used a 5/8th inch rear sway bar. The real leaf springs I added one half of an extra leaf. And if the alignment shop will let you, sit in the car, so the car is zeroed with your weight. The car handles unbeilivable, rides great on the highway. Also, most people never rebuild their steering box. Do that also. The shackles on the rear leafs are a bad idea when they can be reversed eyed and arched different.
So if the front end lowers, where does the weight shift. I know just wondering if you know. I also took it one more step with my modification from the 1980s. Drill the new Shelby drop holes. Bias the upper control arm shaft rearward 1/8th of a inch. I also slightly hexed slots for greasing. Here is the real trick. 1974 Maverick spindles have built in caster offset ball joint mounting. This allows for fewer shims. I have one shim per bolt. Then, I took a 1968 bog block Mustang coil spring and cut 1/3rd of one coil from the top. This allows the front to stay almost level, so no rolling fender edges. I easily used 235 x 60 x 15 tires. Inch front sway bar, all polyurethane bushings, Monte Carlo and Export brace. I also beefed up the upper control arm metal from underneath with 1/4 inch bar block for the two coil saddle bolts on each side. I used a 5/8th inch rear sway bar. The real leaf springs I added one half of an extra leaf. And if the alignment shop will let you, sit I the car, so the car is zeroed with your weight. The car handles unbeilivable, rides great on the highway. Also, most people never rebuild their steering box. Do that also. The shackles on the rear leafs are a bad idea when they can be reversed eyed and arched different.
@@AndyKruseChannel no. the weight is shifted rearward because the front wheels have become a lever. Yes the center of gravity has changed, but that is not what I asked. I know this because we had a scale for every wheel to set up our AC Cobra, and I had the opportunity to discuss with Jim Downing, Mazda factory driver, co inventor of the Han's safety device. My brother was Chief mechanic for him when he was racing Lemans for Mazda. Our AC Cobra now holds the fastest track lap of Cobras at Road Atlanta. And to do this required doing a lot of adjustments, one being suspension weight per wheel
I know I'm kinda late with this suggestion, but while the upper control arm was out, you should have installed the Boss 302 shock tower reinforcement plates.
In reality, anytime the front suspension or steering parts are upgraded or replaced, one should get an alignment. Arguments could be made that some pieces play a very small roll in the alignment and replacing them can be done without an alignment. At the time I made this video I had not gotten the alignment done as I has other pieces I am upgrading before it's "done". Also, it's winter here so the car isn't really going anywhere for a few months anyway. But yes, an alignment will get done. :)
@@tylergaul6273 Thanks! I have rewatched a few of my old videos, man those were really bad. Not that today's videos are great, but those early ones were kinda cringe.
Did it lower the car? Yes. Do people talk about it lowering the car? Yes. Should it be used as a lowering technique? Not specifically, but it does lower the car while improving the caster.
Lowering the upper control arm mounting point by an inch doesn’t equate to lowering the car body by an inch. I think 5/8 inch is about the norm, so good result.👍
Yes, but it's very subtle. This kind of mod is better coupled with other suspension upgrades. If someone left their car completely stock except for this, I doubt they'd find any value in it.
Yes, the Template for the 1967 Mustang will work on the 1967 Fairlane. However, due to the shock towers tapering inward towards the bottom, some have found they need to hammer-out or slightly modify the the bottom of the shock towers to clear the width of the upper control arm mount now that it would sit 1 inch lower. To me, the benefit and improved handling of the Shelby Mod are worth the inconvenience of make a little extra room for the new upper control arm mounting location. There's some info about the required modification to make this work online. You've got this!! :)
Nice looking car and I still think it's cool that the Shelby Drop is being used today. I just did it while installing a Street or Track coilover setup on my 65. By the way, what size wheel and tires are you running?
the Shelby mod drops the control arm geometry 1 inch, that is not the same as dropping the car an inch. and that was never the intended to drop the car an inch.
It’s not supposed to be a 1 inch drop. It was never intended to be damn lowering mod. The drop means dropping the location of the control arm. Shelby is cursing y’all all out. Smh
A common misconception is that the Shelby/ Arning drop is to lower the car. This is actually a byproduct of lowering the upper control arm mounting points but not the intent. The main purpose of the Shelby drop is to give better camber gain of the tire when cornering hard and increase caster to give better feedback through the steering wheel. This gave the cars more responsiveness, feedback, and better handling characteristics.
Correct, but as you mentioned, it lowers the car. This video was an attempt to answer that question about the drop gained from the mod. While a video on the benefits of doing this mod would be valuable, it has been covered at length by others and I didn't feel I had anything new to add to that discussion. :)
Does the drop wear out ball joints excessively, or are there offset ball joints available for the drop?
@@bjsteg79 I think that without modification the ball joints can suffer from premature wear. They do make spacers that angle the ball joints to prevent this issue.
@@bjsteg79 I don't know on that one, and I've never seen it brought up before. :)
@@bjsteg79 generally yes. But the upper ball joints wear out wear out anyway. The three things excluding tie rod ends that wear out on a 1965-1968 Mustang are: upper control arms ball joints, coil spring saddles, and lower control arm bushings, idler arm. On the street the upper control arm doesn't move up and down a lot. The lower control arm bushing takes a lot of the car's forces. But I have never used a wedge for the upper ball joint. Also I have my own extra mod I posted just now.
I’m sure other have mentioned this but the arning drop wasn’t meant to lower the vehicle ride height. Relocating the control arm gets rid of positive camber as the suspension cycles during cornering events. Due to the geometry, a byproduct of relocation results in a drop of about 5/8” on most cars. A lot of people that do this modification are also replacing worn out droopy springs so in that case, the ride height may increase or show no change at all. Also, after dropping the control arm, it will need to be aligned if you want the tires to last and want to realize any change in handling characteristics. The shims that were on the upper control arms is good enough to get you to an alignment shop. Do not go with factory alignment specs…they suck and the car will continue to handle like an overloaded milk truck. You want as much positive caster as they can get which is usually around +2 and at least -1 degree of camber. No more than 0.25 degree difference side to side. 1/8 toe-in seems to work well on these cars. There are a ton of other steering mods to be done if anybody is serious about cornering but the alignment specs above with the arning drop will get you a nice handling street car.
Thanks
@@AndyKruseChannel by the way, video was well done. Wasn’t trying to knock you or the video. Just getting info out there for enthusiasts just getting into mustangs. Just found your channel and was watching a few videos while having coffee. Lot of good Info, keep up the good work
Note" I repeatedly failed math in high school. I'm pretty sure they only graduated me so I'd stop breaking the woodshop equipment.
That said, here's why the Arning/Shelby Drop will only lower your car by 5/8": The control arm can be lowered at the body, but not where it attaches to the spindle. You lower the arm by an inch relative to its mount to the body, but it isn't any lower at the spindle end. What lowers the car after the drop is the slight push of the spindle away rom the body and the resulting angle from the ball joint, which is roughly 5/8".
So Andy's install is precisely what to expect from this mod. :thumbsup:
If you want to lower your front end more than this, you'll need to look at different springs, or a coilover setup. People (including Shelby) experimented with lowering the control arm by more than one inch, but it results in premature ball joint failure from the extreme angle.
Thanks for the info.
Just revisiting Andy's excellent video because of some new info and some personal experience. Kind of a long read, but it might save you some money and headaches. And, as always, "your mileage may vary".
(This experience involves my '65 fastback, original T-code with a swapped 302/5-speed and all V-8 suspension components, plus GT350 steering components (manual steering box, pitman and idler arms) and 1" mid-eye leaf springs in back). With the wheels and tires all the same before and after modifications, the stock ride height (measured from the ground to the highest point of the front wheel arches) was 27".
I added coilovers and adjusted the ride height to 25 1/4" (lowering the front suspension by 1 3/4" - the maximum I could get away with without bottoming out on the top of my sloped driveway and in any event probably as low as you'd want to go if you're running long-tube headers or Tri-Y headers). 25 1/4" gave me no problems in handling, no ground clearance issues over speed bumps, etc, and most importantly, no premature component wear.
After a month I then added the Arning/Shelby drop (which as Andy illustrated will result in a slight lowering of about 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch, due to the UCA being pushed very slightly outward relative to the body). I compensated for that additional slight reduction in ride height by lifting the coilovers approximately the same amount. The final ride height with the corrected coilovers AND the drop remained at 25 1/4" (same as the coilovers with no Arning drop).
Here's the thing - just that slight outward push combined with an already lower-than-stock height ruined my upper-ball joints after about 100 miles. I had to replace both of them, and they were both just three months old. The upside is there was enough cash in my swear jar to pay for two new joints. After that miserable task was completed I started doing some research about early Ford ball-joint failures and discovered Carroll Shelby's pit crew observed premature upper ball-joint failures in the Arning-drop GT350s. The joints were failing in about 1/3 the time of the joints in non-modified GT350s, and even resulted in a couple of near-catastrophic spindle failures during races, SO TEAM SHELBY STOPPED USING THE ARNING DROP after car #252! You will find that most of the guys racing original GT350s in today's vintage circuit are using aftermarket upper control arms with some adjustability, and already engineered with modified ball-joint mounting surfaces. You *may* be able to find a compatible "long-travel"/extreme-duty ball-joint that could do the trick (I'm thinking probably in the 4x4 community), but I haven't found one listed anywhere.
So.... the bottom line is that if you're going to do the Arning/Shelby drop, only do it on a car not already lowered, and be diligent about regular ball-joint inspections. Alternately, if you're going to lower your car's spring height, don't do the Arning drop. The reality is that unless you're tracking your Mustang you're not really going to notice the handling difference gained by doing the drop, anyway.
I agree, the Arning Drop will not be perceived by most drivers. The handling benefits are there, but most won't understand why the car handles the way it does.
It's interesting to hear about the ball joint failures. The upper ball joints on my control arms were done when I purchased the car, and I am planning to replace them soon, but I'll have to keep an eye on things as time goes by with the new UCAs. :)
Nice clear description of what you’re doing and why. Plus the measurements before and after. Great job.
Thank you very much!
Hi Andy, The Shelby Mod has nothing to do with changing the ride height.The fact that it lowers the car slightly is a coincidence. The purpose of it is to change the camber curve to make the outside wheel gain negative camber as the car rolls in a corner there by making the turn in better and removing the factory designed understeer. At the original height the upper control arm effectively pushes the top of the spindle into positive camber on turn in making the car roll onto the outside of the tyre and understeer. Lowering the rear pick up point with the Shelby mod allows the control arm to pull the top of the arm in and keep the tyre tread flatter on the road. I hope this is useful info, I'm not trying to be a smart arse. Jay
Thanks for the heads up. :)
Great video, and cool car. I’ve always loved those old fords. I have a 1968 ford fairlane 500 fastback, my dream car and I was fortunate enough to buy it earlier this year. Keep up the good work!
Very cool! It's always fun to work on the car you love to own.
Hey Andy, sorry if I missed this in the video, but did you mention where you got those drill templates from?
I bought it off ebay about a year ago. There's all different types of designs and materials for $10-$25.
5/8 of an inch is what I got when I did mine too. Really helped with the handling though. I ended up cutting my coil springs to get the ride height where I wanted it. Look at Eaton GT spec springs for your leafs.
How much did you cut off your springs? Did you cut your stock springs or cut new springs?
@@AndyKruseChannel The springs were Grab a Track 1'' lowering spring that a PO installed. I only cut half a coil to get where I wanted it.
Eaton knows what they are doing 100%. I used to build AC Cobras. So if the front end lowers, where does the weight shift. I know just wondering if you know. I also took it one more step with my modification from the 1980s. Drill the new Shelby drop holes. Bias the upper control arm shaft rearward 1/8th of a inch. I also slightly hexed slots for greasing. Here is the real trick. 1974 Maverick spindles have built in caster offset ball joint mounting. This allows for fewer shims. I have one shim per bolt. Then, I took a 1968 bog block Mustang coil spring and cut 1/3rd of one coil from the top. This allows the front to stay almost level, so no rolling fender edges. I easily used 235 x 60 x 15 tires. Inch front sway bar, all polyurethane bushings, Monte Carlo and Export brace. I also beefed up the upper control arm metal from underneath with 1/4 inch bar block for the two coil saddle bolts on each side. I used a 5/8th inch rear sway bar. The real leaf springs I added one half of an extra leaf. And if the alignment shop will let you, sit I the car, so the car is zeroed with your weight. The car handles unbeilivable, rides great on the highway. Also, most people never rebuild their steering box. Do that also. The shackles on the rear leafs are a bad idea when they can be reversed eyed and arched different.
Thanks for the video, getting ready to do this on my 65 Falcon.
Glad I could help! :)
Dang Andy i liked that spring compressor a lot better then the junky 1 i have.. Good job!
Thanks! The brand is OEM Tools, model number 27035
thanks Andy good video i love these how to video
Glad you like them!
The Shelby drop isn't so much about lowering your car, it's about improving the angle of your A-Arm and improve your bump-steer. I did this on my 66 mustang and it is night and day difference in handling and driveability.
Understood.
Great Video, the Shelby Drop isn’t really for lowering the car as much as the suspension. Autorestomod Jeff Ford has a great explanation of this on his channel. Thanks again for the video
Thanks
Shelby drop keeps more of the contact patch of the tire in contact with the pavement while cornering.
Cars looking good with the drop!
Thanks! It'll get better with some proper springs. :)
Thanks for showing us the process. What drill bits did you use?
Any small drill bit (1/16" or 3/32" bit) works great to get the hole started, then you're suppose to use a 17/32" drill bit for the main hole, so there's enough clearance for the bolts. However, if needed, you can use a 1/2" drill bit, but you might find the bolts are a little snug. Also, there's less forgiveness on the exact location of the bolt holes with a 1/2" bit, so just a heads up on that part. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Thanks! I enjoy your following you.
Andy, your videos are great! I have a fully restored '66 mustang convertible. The wheels and suspension are stock spec. Considering all of the mods you have made to improve the handling of your mustangs, what made the biggest difference? Tire aspect ratio? Suspesion kit? Sway bar? Others. Thanks for the advice. Keep up the videos.
Thanks!
Great question. I'm leaning towards the tires as the right tire (size and stickyness) can improve driving feel, cornering stability, stopping distance, and feedback from the road. But then good suspension (springs, shocks, bars) can also amplify how great the tires are and provide better looks in the subjectivity department. Throw in some chassis stiffening and now we're hitting level 9000! I recall the largest noticeable different in how the car drove before and after a given part was adding the rear sway bar. There's a whole argument waiting to take place on whether the rear sway bar or a panhard bar is a better choice for these cars, but I did enjoy how the car felt after adding that rear bar. I wish I could give a single answer, but in reality I'd say all those parts worked great as a whole and everything complimented the other parts.
Great Video. 2 questions Did you leave the upper control arm connected to the ball joint? And what kind of spring compressor is that? Thanks!!
Thanks!
Yes, there's no need to separate the UCA while doing this Mod.
The brand for that spring compressor is "OEM Tools", and the model number is 27035
@@AndyKruseChannel thank you! Subscribed!
After doing the Shelby drop I've had a big hassle getting the alignment shop to align it to the correct new specs. The keep insisting that it needs to be done to original Ford factory specs. Which does not have enough positive caster. Very frustrating.
I have heard of other having issues finding shop willing to work with those shims more than getting the alignment dialed in. You might have to take it to a different shop? Good luck! :)
I'm curious what the vertical difference was on your template, between the original holes and the small pilot holes. Are those 1" center to center or perhaps a bit less?
The template is designed to be used on the 65-66 cars and the 67-70 cars. For the 65-66 cars it's the offset hole, hence the "down an inch, back an 8th" phrase. For the 67-70 cars, the other hole is used which is directly below the starting hole. I marked the hole I needed for my car just so I wouldn't make the mistake, especially on camera. :)
Nice job, has a good stance.
Thanks. It'll get better with the lowering springs. :)
May I ask where you got that spring compressor and how much it costs? Getting ready to do the same thing. Thank you.
That spring compressor kit is from OEM Tools, part number 27035. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel awesome thank you sir. Love your videos very helpful.
Can't wait to see the rear leaf to fix the back end. That will make a big difference on the look.
Definitely! :)
Hi Andy, your car may have had the springs swapped side to side.I'm in Australia and '60s falcons had a slightly longer spring on the drivers side to allow for the weight of the driver. Don't know if you guys did as well but I'd imagine the idea came from the US falcon.
Could be. :)
I also took it one more step with my modification from the 1980s. Drill the new Shelby drop holes. Bias the upper control arm shaft rearward 1/8th of a inch. I also slightly hexed slots for greasing. Here is the real trick. 1974 Maverick spindles have built in caster offset ball joint mounting. This allows for fewer shims. I have one shim per bolt. Then, I took a 1968 bog block Mustang coil spring and cut 1/3rd of one coil from the top. This allows the front to stay almost level, so no rolling fender edges. I easily used 235 x 60 x 15 tires. Inch front sway bar, all polyurethane bushings, Monte Carlo and Export brace. I also beefed up the upper control arm metal from underneath with 1/4 inch bar block for the two coil saddle bolts on each side. I used a 5/8th inch rear sway bar. The real leaf springs I added one half of an extra leaf. And if the alignment shop will let you, sit in the car, so the car is zeroed with your weight. The car handles unbeilivable, rides great on the highway. Also, most people never rebuild their steering box. Do that also. The shackles on the rear leafs are a bad idea when they can be reversed eyed and arched different.
I love when Andy says " We're going to have to jack the car up " ❤🔥❤🔥
It's better than saying "Today we're going to light a match and start over!" :)
@@AndyKruseChannel 🤣😂😅
So if the front end lowers, where does the weight shift. I know just wondering if you know. I also took it one more step with my modification from the 1980s. Drill the new Shelby drop holes. Bias the upper control arm shaft rearward 1/8th of a inch. I also slightly hexed slots for greasing. Here is the real trick. 1974 Maverick spindles have built in caster offset ball joint mounting. This allows for fewer shims. I have one shim per bolt. Then, I took a 1968 bog block Mustang coil spring and cut 1/3rd of one coil from the top. This allows the front to stay almost level, so no rolling fender edges. I easily used 235 x 60 x 15 tires. Inch front sway bar, all polyurethane bushings, Monte Carlo and Export brace. I also beefed up the upper control arm metal from underneath with 1/4 inch bar block for the two coil saddle bolts on each side. I used a 5/8th inch rear sway bar. The real leaf springs I added one half of an extra leaf. And if the alignment shop will let you, sit I the car, so the car is zeroed with your weight. The car handles unbeilivable, rides great on the highway. Also, most people never rebuild their steering box. Do that also. The shackles on the rear leafs are a bad idea when they can be reversed eyed and arched different.
The center of gravity is moved downward with the Shelby Drop, reducing body roll during cornering. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel no. the weight is shifted rearward because the front wheels have become a lever. Yes the center of gravity has changed, but that is not what I asked. I know this because we had a scale for every wheel to set up our AC Cobra, and I had the opportunity to discuss with Jim Downing, Mazda factory driver, co inventor of the Han's safety device. My brother was Chief mechanic for him when he was racing Lemans for Mazda. Our AC Cobra now holds the fastest track lap of Cobras at Road Atlanta. And to do this required doing a lot of adjustments, one being suspension weight per wheel
I know I'm kinda late with this suggestion, but while the upper control arm was out, you should have installed the Boss 302 shock tower reinforcement plates.
Yep, kinda late. :)
What did you use to maintain spring compression when you removed the spring?
The spring compressors, they go on the inside of the springs, you can see them in the video I made where I did the front lowering springs. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel
I’ve never seen one like that. Seems easier than the one with hooks
Did you have to re-align the car after you installed this? I just put 1" lowering springs on my 68 but I would like for it to be a tad bit lower.
In reality, anytime the front suspension or steering parts are upgraded or replaced, one should get an alignment. Arguments could be made that some pieces play a very small roll in the alignment and replacing them can be done without an alignment. At the time I made this video I had not gotten the alignment done as I has other pieces I am upgrading before it's "done". Also, it's winter here so the car isn't really going anywhere for a few months anyway. But yes, an alignment will get done. :)
@@AndyKruseChannel Thanks for the reply! Your videos have helped out a lot!
Mike Maier suggest measuring from pinch welds.
Ok. :)
What spring compressor did you use? Been wanting to do this on my 66 coupe.
The brand is OEM Tools, the model number is 27035.
@@AndyKruseChannel Thanks man, been catching up on the videos and I must say I can see a big difference in video quality!
@@tylergaul6273 Thanks! I have rewatched a few of my old videos, man those were really bad. Not that today's videos are great, but those early ones were kinda cringe.
The mod is about camber change not lowering
Did it lower the car? Yes. Do people talk about it lowering the car? Yes. Should it be used as a lowering technique? Not specifically, but it does lower the car while improving the caster.
@@AndyKruseChannel excellent response 👏
Lowering the upper control arm mounting point by an inch doesn’t equate to lowering the car body by an inch. I think 5/8 inch is about the norm, so good result.👍
What size are the tires?
225/50/16, Falken Azenis RT615K+
How does it handle? Any big difference in cornering?
Yes, but it's very subtle. This kind of mod is better coupled with other suspension upgrades. If someone left their car completely stock except for this, I doubt they'd find any value in it.
Do they make this for 67 Fairlane?
Yes, the Template for the 1967 Mustang will work on the 1967 Fairlane. However, due to the shock towers tapering inward towards the bottom, some have found they need to hammer-out or slightly modify the the bottom of the shock towers to clear the width of the upper control arm mount now that it would sit 1 inch lower. To me, the benefit and improved handling of the Shelby Mod are worth the inconvenience of make a little extra room for the new upper control arm mounting location. There's some info about the required modification to make this work online. You've got this!! :)
Nice looking car and I still think it's cool that the Shelby Drop is being used today. I just did it while installing a Street or Track coilover setup on my 65. By the way, what size wheel and tires are you running?
Thanks!
16x7 with 4" BS Torq Thrust wheels, 225/50/16 Falken Azenis tires
where did you get your template?
eBay
@@AndyKruseChannel you should think about making them and adding them to your shop.
@@bofa83 way ahead of you brotha!
the Shelby mod drops the control arm geometry 1 inch, that is not the same as dropping the car an inch. and that was never the intended to drop the car an inch.
Regardless of it’s design or intent, it still drops the car, and this video shows that.
@@AndyKruseChannel it is generally a beneficial side effect in the handling dept. I've got 2 mustangs I need to do eventually.
It’s not supposed to be a 1 inch drop. It was never intended to be damn lowering mod. The drop means dropping the location of the control arm. Shelby is cursing y’all all out. Smh
Yes, thank you. Smh
The purpose is not to lower your car by an inch. Not exactly sure who said or thought that. Not at all accurate and not the purpose of the mod.
Ok
Veel beter
Thanks, I agree! :)