Dual Wielding
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- A Historical description and examination of dual wielding, fighting with two swords technique. This is a very controversial matter as there are a lot of different opinions about it. One very important thing is that it was done historically but the very first question we need to ask is "what country are we talking about?" as there are many differences particularly between western ancient warfare and eastern ancient warfare.
I frequently dual wield a goose and a swan, the two biggest assholes out of all the birds, as I rush into the fray of the produce section of my local supermarket.
Do you keep a stellar's jay in the boot for surprises?
I’m terrified of your power my good man
you probably dont give a shit but if you're stoned like me atm then you can watch pretty much all of the latest series on InstaFlixxer. I've been binge watching with my brother during the lockdown =)
@Callum Royal definitely, I've been using InstaFlixxer for years myself :)
When I was younger, we had "hit each other with sticks" day. Which was essentially Larping, but getting a solid hit on torso or head was a kill, not a critical hit - and there was no HP. With dual swords, I had a massive advantage over anyone using sword and shield, but I was at a disadvantage against spears. I would end up having to bait a strong thrust, parry it and move in really closely really fast. Really hard to do with a fucked ankle, but it was the only way I could win.
You had an advantage against people who probably didn't know how to use a shield to maximum effectiveness.
Yeah, I'm sure shields require years of training to make sure you keep it in front of you.
I have been training with the sword for 10 years. I am best with a katana, and can also dual wield as well. I run a fight club where I spar with others with like interests and teach them what I know. Against spears, I have learned to cross my blades to catch their shaft in btwn the scissor form and either force it away to move inward, or simply let the blades travel along the length of their spear until at last my blades connect with their bodies as I go in towards them.
I'm an amateur medieval weapons enthusiast and I agree. Duel wielding vs a pole arm, shifting your opponents thrust to the side then running the blade up his shaft is a satisfying kill. The look of sheer horror on the opponent when they realize they fucked up is amazing XD Although if it were a real life fight, the pole arm wielder would simply have to step back and use the hilt of the pole arm to strike the duelists face, then you would either quickly regain your distance and thrust or trip the duelist with your superior leverage and downward impale them. (Got penalized at a tourney for doing the latter XD)
MrVkull
I've had a few try that and it's fairly easy to parry since your weapons are still in contact. I'd like to try it with armor on some time, though. I want to see how difficult it would be to gain control of the spearman.
Of course, spears shine in skirmishes whereas dual swords really fail hard core compares to sword and shield or sword and spear. It's really only viable for duels - which is a major downfall. You're not going to sell yourself to an army by saying "look at these sweet dueling skills" unless you were trying to be a champion hoping your leaders decide on a champion vs champion battle - which were quite rare.
You'd have to make a living in tournaments and it's still a pretty high risk vs reward to go without a shield.
If you haven't, could you please do a video on Sword-Breakers?
Im dual-wielding a sword and a shield ;)
I'm dual wielding boxing gloves
Noup, you're wearing gloves, not wielding it. But can dual-wield two shields, wearing boxing gloves ;)
I'm dual wielding a mouse and a keyboard
and I have a two handed mouse...
Dual shields baby lets go!!!
Hi Metatron, I'd like to suggest that you check out eskrima (also known as kali, or arnis). It's a Filipino martial arts that specializes in dual wielding. It's recently been popularized by Bruce Lee, but originally was used in guerrilla warfare by Filipino rebels during the Spanish occupation of the Philippines. While the more popular depiction of arnis is using two sticks of equal length (roughly that of the ninjato/short sword), there are variations: espada-y-daga and daga-y-daga ("sword and dagger", and "dagger and dagger" respectively). Unlike what you mentioned in the video however, the long/short blade combo in arnis isn't always to have the dagger defending and the sword attacking; instead, the sword can also be used to make an opening for you to get very close to the enemy and you can shiv or slice the guy up close with your dagger (being nearly chest-to-chest against your enemy makes it harder for them to fight back with the longsword, which at this point has been reduced to just the pommel due to lack of swinging room).
Just in case you'd like to revisit the topic 😊
"Recently been popularized by Bruce Lee"
Buddy... Bruce Lee has been dead for quite some time. Not to mention, if you're going to parry, you can't just counter straight after. It's both at once, or not at all, in any style of dual wielding.
I'm fully aware that he's been dead for quite some time; the term was used in a relative fashion. I'd like to know how it's not possible to do what I just mentioned, which is to parry while moving forward, followed by a dagger attack up close.
***** If two people are dual wielding, hell, even if it were just one, it becomes a game of parry. It looks cool, but you just end up in a giant cycle. It's pointless.
Given that's exactly how arnis works - two people dual wielding - and it is often considered one of the deadliest martial arts in the world (at least from what I've gathered), I find it amusing that you consider it pointless.
***** You don't quite seem to get my point. If you parried, and than attacked, it gives them a huge amount of time to parry back. And than they attack after they parry, and it's just an endless cycle. If you're going to step forward to parry, attack at the same time, as this gives your opponent no time to really defend himself against your second strike. He may parry your blow as you counter, but your weapon tat countered is now free to attack.
Yes, there are many different styles. But this idea of "Parry, than attack with the other blade" is just stupid. Why the hell wouldn't you use your second blade at the same timing anyway?
Actually, I would disagree about dual wielding weapons of the same length. Of course, having a longer weapon in your striking arm has its advantages.
However, the psychological "warfare" should also be taken into account. If you wield two weapons of the same length, your opponent will probably have doubts about which arm is your striking arm. And if you are ambidextrous, this can be lethal to him, because you can actually strike with both your right and your left arm with similar, even equal efficiency. Also, attacking with both weapons, though might be non-instinctive (i still prefer the concept of blocking with one and striking a defenseless opponent with the other [assuming they use a two-handed weapon]) if well-timed and/or coupled with a well done dodge, this way could yield lethal results to the opponent. Again, it is all a matter of good timing and reflexes.
Maciej Kozak yeah, fuck the swordmasters who practiced dueling all their lives, this dude knows his Dark Souls
Armando Gutierrez You absolutely sure none of the masters ever attacked with the two swords? Also remember not every master had his teachings written down.
When I use two weapons I always make sure they are of equal size.
My own (limited) experience in fencing I wound up using the shorter weapon for attack more often. I personally find it helpful to tangle up my opponents primary weapon and then clsoe within dagger range. I find a lot of opponets used to the opposite strategy get surprised by this and when your in close enough with their main weapon out of the way the dagger is the weapon you want.
I how brough shame upon my famery, i must comit...sudoku!!!
umm i believe you meant sepaku or harikiri
Darius Durandal its a joke that now that i have to explain it is way less funny. manny say sudoku instead of sepaku, so its a running gag that you say it wrong.
Sorry that's a new one for me
the words arent Seppuku and Harakiri? :/
+Carlo Romano you're the only one that spells them right my friend ;)
This is awesome! Thank you for making this video!
I'm glad you liked it pal!
+Metatron Your videos are great. I was never interested in this kind of things until I stumbled upon your channel. Now you have my curiosity aroused! One question that came to my mind is that, is there any scientific approach to these fights? For instance, has there been any modelling of the forces involved in a real combat? (Sorry to take away it from an art form, I'm an engineer you see)
Golden Eagle 🤣🤣🤣
A small note. Hara kiri and seppuku, while they mean, literally, the same thing, they carry different connotations. I would equate seppuku to an honorable taking of your own life or, as you said, a way for a person to regain honor for their family name. I say this because seppuku was not always done in "disgrace", but was also recorded as being done to show loyalty (Some warriors would do seppuku if their lord died) , or steadfastness to a cause (those who did seppuku when the sword was officially outlawed in japan). the Kami Kaze, flying their planes into ships, while not seppuku, was seen similarly. the European equivalent might be "falling on your sword". You would generally have a second to semi-behead you, most of the time as soon as you reached for the knife, usually a kaiken rather than a wakizashi or tanto.
Hara kiri is essentially just suicide and carries similar views in western culture, something extreme and sometimes selfish or wasteful. You probably don't have a second to semi-behead you and you're probably using your wakizashi to do it.
I'd also like to clarify that the wakizashi's purpose, as designed, was to enable a samurai to fight inside, where the length of a katana would be a disadvantage and/or where weapons were to be left at the door. It was to the "every day carry" what the katana is to the combat assault rifle. One was a weapon, the other was just protection.
Hara kiri was actually the same thing as Seppuku, but it was a slangy, low-class way of saying it. Literally, it translates as 'belly-slitting'. The method was the same, though.
Yeah, they're one in the same. But I wouldn't say harakiri is slang, or even low-class. It's just the Japanese reading of the kanji (kun-yomi). Seppuku is the Chinese reading (on-yomi). On-yomi generally sounds flowery and poetic, and kun-yomi sounds a bit folksy-er, but either one is perfectly legitimate. Of course, seppuku tended to be the preferred pronunciation, given the ceremonial/aristocratic context of the act.
There is an example of dual wielding 2 swords on foot and on horseback in a comprehensive military manual developed by Korea during the Joseon Dynasty called the Muye Dobo Tongji. This military manual brought together many different martial arts from Korea, China, and Japan for use by Korea's army and included dual wielding. It was a difficult martial art to master and only some of their best soldiers were expected to know it, but apparently it was used in their military examinations. I would like to know what your thoughts are on that.
The manga "Vagabond" Loosely portrays a lot of Miyamoto Musashi's story. It's obviously a work of fiction, but it contains details and stories that are believed to be true about his journey. It's an excellent read, it's one of the reasons why I got into learning more about the various weapons you can find in this world
Actually, the Filippino Kali system of "stick and knife" fighting was adopted from the spanish "Espada y daga" (rapier and dagger), which was very popular during the Spanish colonization period. So, one thing to add, the double wielding was really very popular in Europe, and very often used in battle, when the mellay started
What a great video. Now, I cannot speak at all for western fighting, but I am learning Shin Kagerou style swordsmanship and learning just a bit about the samurai culture, I've learned that samurai carried anywhere between one and three swords based entirely on what their Daimyo decreed, so it is not entirely unrealistic that some samurai were required to carry two katana. I would certainly never want to dual wield katana however. Taking one hand off your katana is a good way to lose power and speed. Awesome analysis, though. Spot on about not dual wielding longswords or katana.
Didn't Miyamoto Musashi start advocating for dual wielding late in life after retiring from duels?
@@kylewilliams8114
It was the opposite, actually.
@@kylewilliams8114 he definitely did not say to use two long blades. specifically the sword and the companion sword in most translations. not sure why you would make stuff up like that?
On the subject of "dual wielding" similar length swords I can somewhat confidently say that, yes it did happen historically in China. There are mentions of it in books, manuals, and scholarly treatises, and it is practiced today in several Chinese Martial Arts. There are forms for both the Dāo (Chinese saber) and Jiàn (double edged sword) and these forms are called Shuāng Dāo (雙刀) and Shuāng Jiàn (雙劍) respectively.
In fact there are (modern and historical) Chinese swords designed for the purpose of dual wielding, and are the same length. The design aspect is that they are built to both fit inside of the same scabbard. However, I will admit that some of these weapons conform to the type you mentioned in your video, where one is shorter than the other. And again, as you said, it probably was only used in personal duels rather than on the battlefield, where a sword and shield was preferable.
But I'm no expert on this either. I'm just a martial arts amateur who learned Chinese and dabbles in oriental history a little.
Greatly appreciate your videos by the way. Very honest and very informative.
Great explanation of an interesting topic. I think it would be interesting for you to watch or join in some sparring of Eskrima, the Philippine duel stick system and then hear your take on two short weapons vs a short and long.
I have trained in it for a number of years (in a "Cacoy" Cañete Kali Arnis Eskrima school) and can say from experience that its super combat effective and I am having trouble picturing a person being successful against it if one hand had a long weapon such as a sword.
In my mind I see the sword being too slow and easy to bypass/unbalance with the much faster strikes from an Eskrimador's stick. One of the big advantages of the two short weapons being that you can step forward as you deflect with one stick and simultaneously strike with the other stick, ending in close quarters and inside the most effective range of swords or spears. I actually used to train against spears in sparing and it was pretty easy to deflect a thrust moving forwards or advance past the spears point as it tries to slash.
I have never trained in any sword styles though so its just speculation on my part as to if two shorter weapons would be more effective than a long and a short.
Just putting this out there as mental exercise to hear peoples thoughts on it, nothing negative about your video which was well presented and historically interesting!
your awesome man I'm self taught in kendo iaido and kenjutsu i would love to learn japanese duel wielding keep it up man.
Espada y daga is fairly simple extension of the sword'n'board techniques in a duel/arena conditions, where you do not expect a lot of things getting thrown at you. It takes some practice, but not overwhelmingly so. If you care to wield two near equal swords - you want to have near equal skill and strength wielding it with each arm. High skill at that. Took me four years of work to become any good with it, but it does give me a solid advantage switching my attack pattern at will.
an example of dual weild with two light weapons is in wing chun using whats commonly called butterfly swords.
Well, there are some asian martial arts that use dual weilding as main techniques: various styles of wushu (several blades, some look like hooks, others are round, curved, etc) , kobudo (tonfa, sai, kama, nunchaku, jitte), philipino/malasyan/singaporean martial arts (knifes, daggers, battons).
Nah... Wakizashi were a spare apparently they had to leave the katana outside, but could carry the wakizashi indoors, the tanto was for suicide. They would cut across the bowel, go back half way then downwards so the entrails spilled out (ideally, but most didn't). Then the second (person, usually an ally) would slice their heads off, before they screamed in pain like a bitch, thus embarrassing themselves. The Wakizashi is a bit unweildy for surgically removing your own bowels. I bet you knew that tho, too many bevies the night before or something. Very educational tho. thanks for the video..
+Reuben Stern yes but surely it could be used like a rapier and dagger right?
:/ Dagger... not really. As for a Rapier, I know next to nothing about those. Consider a Wakizashi blade would be around 2 to three foot long. I'm certainly no expert with sword technique.
What about fma? I do Kali (PTK) and we train a lot with two swords (Sticks). A second video about the topic would be very nice =). I realy like your channel btw, thx for the cool stuff ^^
Same length twin blades were used in China and the Philippines primarily. It was used more often in the Philippines, however, in arts such as Kali Salak, where two identical short blades were used in together not as two separate weapons, but together, as two halves of the same whole. The Chinese took this concept even further by quite literally making twin blades that fit together in the same sheath, both for practicality and symbolism (they were also a little easier to handle with dual wielding than other weapons).
The chinese monks have a lot of paired weapon sets of the same size, the longest of which being the Twin Hooks and scaling down into punching daggers and these crazy little spinning daggers of which I've forgotten the name.
As has also been mentioned, Eskrima is another style that is centered around two weapons of equal length, and Sai's were often weilded in pairs.
The twin hooks are awesome!!! They also dual wielded Dao swords often
Emeici (Emei Piercers), I think.
+ 1
Several Okinawan weapons are commonly wielded in pairs: sai, kama, and tonfa, or tuifa. (Okinawa nunchaku could also be wielded in pairs, as well as a solo weapon.) There are equivalent weapons found in China, Southeast Asia and even South Asia (it is thought the sai may have arisen from the Indian trisula, or trident spear), where some or all may have originated. (This may not be 100 percent true, though, but I recall that the Chinese guǎi is longer than the Okinawan tonfa and usually wielded solo.) I remember reading that an Okinawan sai master was said to carry three sai: one in each hand, with a third sai kept in his obi. He could pin the foot of an opponent to the ground with a fling of one sai, then replace the sai he had thrown in his empty hand with the third sai.
In Japan it was a katana and a wakazashi for parries like a fencer with a dagger. The Chinese martial arts used two short swords that are almost knives, or long ones for performance.
Great video again! Only I'd add that "they mostly use 'seppuku'" means that most of the Japanese won't even understand the word 'harakiri'. Been there, tried it. They just don't know it and it usually sounds very weird to them. Though my experience only applies to the people from Osaka. :)
I've noticed that, too. "Seppuku" is the preferred. Either way, IT HURTS.
What about the Chinese hooked swords?
Aren’t they dual wield?
I think that the parrying dagger (not just any knife) is optimal for the offhand not only because of its [speed], but because you need a weapon [short] enough to not interfere with your main hand. Parrying is done with the [strong] of the blade so parrying with a katana in the offhand means the main hand (arm) must be already out of the way, as shown in some heavily choreographed videos on youtube. (In a real duel such techniques would get someone killed I believe). But [rapier+dagger] and [backsword+buckler] are not the only dual-wielding systems. There is also the [rapier+rapier] system, in which the focus is the exact opposite; you parry with the main hand and attack with the offhand. The key point here is the [thrust-centric] nature of the offhand weapon and its extraordinary [length] to counteract the offhand's decreased [reach]. That is, you can actually even attack with main hand and offhand at the same time - it is essentially a single-tempo system - provided you keep them far enough from each other to keep the opponent from controlling both your weapons. Oh and I should point out that the shield is the best offhand weapon in a duel too, as it covers more lines of attack, and being heavy and big it can actually push the opponent's weapon out of line quite easily. The only reason one would not use a shield - in any conceivable scenario - is because he already enjoys adequate protection from full-plate armor or he has a pole-arm. Thank you for your time creating this educating and entertaining video.
WOAH MEDIEVAL TOTAL WAR 2 MUSIC ON TH EINTRO? OMG
OK NOW I LOVE THIS CHANNEL EVEN MORE HOLY CRAP
Man, you have improved your channel amazingly...I'd say you're a full grown youtuber :) Keep it up
Could you a video on philipno dual short swords? I've found using a sword shorter then the length of your arm much like the ones used in Sinawali can make it really effective. Also you can mount them on your back parallel. (Along the spine)
Who recognized the Medieval 2 Total War battle music from the beginning?
+skierssuck88
It's at the ending too haha
I'm way late because I'm doing research for a novel I'm working on, and this popped up in my searches.
Before I ask this, just be warned; I talk about my stories and characters like they're real, and they often have more control over themselves than I do.
People often talk about how using two weapons (sword or otherwise) wouldn't be practical for the battlefield, and as a mainstay tactic, I might agree. If you're talking armies, you would want that shield line.
The problem I'm having in my research is the fact that the character who may be using this style, isn't on the battlefield. He's traveling, and doing a lot of it. He's a swordsman, but more of a finesse fighter even so, and I just don't see him being comfortable with anything but blades in his hands. The twin blades he wants to carry feel right for his character, and provide a host of symbolisms that will enhance the story further.
So I'm curious what your thoughts are on more of a Xena type situation for "dual wielding". Someone spending a lot of time on the road, and in my case, without a horse. He might run into a few soldiers, but mostly, it's bandits and other stray problems that he's fighting. Never a full on war. I understand that bucklers are small and light, but if he prefers dual swords, and is good with them, I question wither he'd bother carrying one. Just more weight and another thing to care for on the road.
the rapier and dagger combination was specially common in 16-17th centuries in Spain
you know what I agree with the history and how its better if you have a shield but you have to admit if done right it can look freaking cool
zephyr swordsman Yes I admit it xD the looks are great :3
and it also has its perks for battle too but I'm kind of self taught in the sword and dual wielding is my favorite style
A set of swords carried by a samurai were called a Daisho, and were only carried by samurai as a way to show their social status(samurai were considered to be a sort or ruling class. The Daisho wasn't however considered to simpy be just a katana and wakazashi, a tanto could also be substituted for a wakazashi.
This second sword wasn't just used for seppuku however, as you pointed out it was also used as an auxiliary weapon, should the katana be damaged or lost, but also for indoors combat, as the length of a katana would make it very difficult if not near impossible to fight in tight spaces, so a smaller sword would instead be used.
Another point is that while a katana was limited t the samurai class, a wakazashi could be worn by some one of the chonin(merchants, etc.) class.
I recommend you read Musashi's "The Book of Five Rings" he actually discusses his principles behind Ni-Ten No Ichi Ryu as well as his philosophy on strategy, he has some other books but the names escape me.
"something like this", yeah, but, as you know, the japanese didn't used trust attacks, therefore there would be no reason for the main blade to be pointed forward. So, there were multiple stands using the dual wielding, but for simplification lets use the basic stand: the main attack of samurais was a vertical cut to split the enemy in 2, from the skull to the crotch in a single cut. Therefore, there would always be one blade protecting your head from such attacks, and another ready to slice an enemy that attempts to advance, you would attack by simultaneously lifting your front blade to protect your head and lower the back hand on a cut against the enemy, this way you would stay protected as you attacked, and would always have one hand "cocked" to cut, not needing to "wait" while you recover from one blade's swing to attack again, allowing for a fast barrage of attacks, without lowering one's defence. Of course, this is not the only stance of dual wielding, but it's is the only one we are allowed to tell people that don't train in our dojo, for situations like this. Hope I've helped.
there was something where two blades were dual wielded at same length, but that delves more into the world of daggers rather than swords.
have you heard about Traditional Filipino Martial Arts(Arnis/Eskrima/Kali)? We can use both of equal sized swords/dagger for dual wielding and yeah we do Espada y Daga (sword and dagger) too.
All SEA arts dual wield. Most Asian arts, in fact.
Most cultures carried a short sword as a back-up when their main sword was a long sword, spear, or ranged weapon. When you got into a building, a shorter sword was less likely to get caught on the walls. It also served as a replacement if you lost your main weapon.
Not being an active user of any style, I couldn't say exactly what moves either of these styles included or which is better. It will most likely come down to personal ability and luck.
All I do know is that as a novice with to much free time I have tried playing with swords in hallways. A spear works great as long as the hallway is long enough. Bows and crossbows are great until the enemy gets close if you have enough room for them (longer bows may catch ceiling).Most hallways are only 3ft wide and 8ft tall, so a longsword is limited to thrust for the most part, but a shorter weapon is free to parry and thrust.
Otherwise, weapons do break. All things do. It is a simple fact of life. As such a back-up weapon can be useful.
Hey buddy, thanks for the video, I am glad there are people worried about correcting all these misconceptions, most of which I believed in. Anyways, do you have a video on Myiamoto Musashi? Not sure if that's how it's written anymore, but I have read the mangá Vagabond, that tells his tale and it is very interesting (if anything close to reality, he was a real badass). If you don't, hey, I think it would be a nice topic. Peace!
Metatron, I know this video is quite old, but I'd like to ask you something.
In my kung fu school we were given an express workshop about the Dual Saber (Shuang Dao, I think? Each saber has half a hand guard) and I found some of the techniques a bit strange. Was this a real chinese historical weapon? If it was, how was it used?
Also, were the Dual Butterfly Sabers historical weapons too? These shorter blades make more sense to me to be dual wielded.
Hope you can answer!
Regards.
Metatron, I don´t know if you have talked about this in another video, but I believe the dual wielding in Rome was pretty effective, as the Dimachaerus style gladiators were very famous. And let me point that they used same size gladius on each hand.
You should have talk about it in this video.
Can you do a video on the greatest classic warriors, and the qualities that made them the men, or women they were? And how these lessons apply to living in the modern world?
I was psyched for Megatron...
I think you are looking at "Case of Swords" (the historical name for duel wielding) in a very narrow way. You wanted both weapons to be the same length so that you could change which swords attacked and which one defended at will, which was the appeal of it that fencing masters discussed. The concept you discuss in this video is that of sword and dagger, which is a different thing entirely. Case of swords refers specifically to the use of two swords of equal length. That is what the two men in the plate from Agrappa's treatise shows, and that Is what Mancelino, Morozzo, and Di Grassi all discuss in their respective treatises featuring case.
It is also possible to use the long sword to parry in a switch up and go into close range with the dagger. One of the big things with duels using longer swords is that they are not exactly effective in close range. Samurai had Wakizashi's for that exact reason as well (They were used while fighting indoors, or pulled when the enemies got close and/or you couldn't use your katana.)
The case of swords (two rapiers) is described in XVI - XVII century Iberian sources:
- Figueiredo was a Verdadeira Destreza master who in his «Oplosophia», stated (I'm editing heavily because he is wordy):
«And for about all the double weapons [sword and dagger, sword and buckler, etc] I will write in this book, but I won't deal here with the two swords for they are of little use, and I will write about them somewhere else, and how one can effectively defend against them and control them both with one single sword; because they are only admired inasmuch as they are feared by the ignorants, and that fear once admitted it is hard to put to rest. But I will trust what I saw in my experience so that people who carry two swords will find an end to their martyrdom, and those who don't will fear them less.»
So, TLDR: some people did carry twin swords around, and Figueiredo scorned them for that.
- Godinho, on the other hand, was a master belonging into the «Destreza Comum», which basically means all swordfighting not considered «Verdadeira Destreza». He wrote in «Arte de Esgrima» about the case of swords extensively, giving rules for how they should be used in various scenarios, including:
- A narrow street
- A not-so-narrow street
- When you are attacked from both sides
- Against multiple opponents in a wide street
- When you have to defend someone (i.e. bodyguard duty)
- To clear a crowd
...etc
He's very specific, writing about 11folios (recto+verso, so 22 pages) on the matter.
It is no coincidence that the rule titles (not the movements) are similar to the montante rules: they are part of the same pedagogic method, where they taught swordfighting based on scenarios and set sequences of movements.
You can get «Oplosophia» (and also «Arte de Esgrima», when it is back on stock) here:
ageaeditora.com/livros/oplosophia-e-verdadeira-destreza-das-armas/
ageaeditora.com/livros/arte-de-esgrima/
some tips for those who are going to duel willed. train each hand to use a sword wen you have got both hands to a good level of doing both atacking and defending then pic the best stance and work on using both swords together this is what i was tort from a Japanese sword master so i trust his advice
Not a bad analysis and your understanding of Japanese seems pretty good!
However, I'd like to add some of my own thoughts.
First of all, the benefit of using two weapons is interchangeability of attack and defense. You have the option, of course, to use the off-hand weapon as a means of defense, but moreover, it is also a possible threat that your opponent must take into consideration. Thus, a second weapon is an excellent idea in not only one-on-one combat but also a way to check multiple opponents with two threat zones at the same time.
As you stated, the shield is a better defensive option (and actually adds to offense somewhat) but a second weapon gives an increased and balanced addition to both offense and defense.
Today, many are confused semantically. The term "dual" meaning "a mirror double," hence "dual wielding" should indicate using two identical weapons simultaneously. If you wish to discuss melee combat with different shapes, sizes, or even kind of weapon, that should be described as "two-weapon fighting."
Continuing with definitions, while it is commonly believed that the wakizashi was an implement for honorable suicide among the bushi, I think just looking at the meaning in its characters tells a much more practical tale.
"Waki" （脇）meaning "armpit" or "corner" coupled with "zashi" （差）meaning "work together or appearance" shows that the wakizashi was not only a pair with the katana but also something to "work into the armpit" meaning a short blade for thrusting through the gaps in armor.
Qualthos Renstalon Thank you for your comment and the interesting insight you provided.
" the benefit of using two weapons is interchangeability of attack and defense"
I couldn't have said it better, well said ^^
and for my Japanese I have lived in Japan for almost 4 years after getting a university degree in Japanese :D
thank you for watching and for your time ^^
Metatron Always a pleasure watching intelligent, polite people talking about swords!
I've lived in Japan for close to 11 years now myself and love the people, culture, and scenery with abundance!
Qualthos Renstalon Oh fantastic :D :D thank you for the complimenti and I hope you'll keep watching my videos and commenting ^___^ it's great to have you here.
Where about in Japan do you live?
Metatron Currently living in Gifu Prefecture but was in Osaka before that.
Seki City in Gifu is known for its swordsmiths and I watched a live forging by craftsmen about 2 years ago. Very nice men that loved talking about swords with the people that come to visit (if you can speak Japanese).
Keep up the great work!
Also, wonderful videos, I thoroughly enjoy them. What's your opinion on the "Armoured combat league", AKA "Knight fights"?
In Kung fu and wu shu we often use several different twin swords and other weapons such as the:
Butterfly twin swords
Double hooks twin swords
Double saber
And in all the cases they are they are not only the some length but they are also identical.
1066, battle of hastings... William the conquerer cleverly feigns retreat before ordering his Norman knights to charge Harold's pursuing Saxon Huscarls while dual weilding swords, utterly smashing the Saxon shield formation :D
I can still see two gladii being wielded in tandem effective, though this would be more suitable in an urban setting like Suburbia, rather than a battlefield... It would take a good bit of effort to train the non-dominant to be as effective and as agile as the dominant hand, but it could be done and to great effect.
I think i'll have 2 ideas for your next 2 videos:
were there accessories to some shields, like spikes and blades to make it weaponized shield for stabbing while pushing your opponent?
Also i heared that quivers weren't existing at the time and that archers usually had arrows in hand with bow(watch video: " Lars Andersen: a new level of archery ")
Maybe they had small quantity of arrows in hand (10-15 units) and rest of them in tightly elongated poaches called "quivers". I don't think they have pulled every single arrow after every single shoot because it would take a lot of time. And if rope (that tightens quiver for arrows to do not fall out) were too loose, they would lose agility
this is an perfect example maybe:
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i.ytimg.com/vi/0AIUF6iCPj0/maxresdefault.jpg
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The concept of attacking with both blades in a more offensive style is a plausible form of dueling combat, mostly used with twin katanas. The idea of striking with two light weapons involves delivering a quick strike series that comes out of several different directions and utilizing both blades to deliver powerful blows and potentially break the guard of an opponent. It's a highly offensively oriented style, so as a result defensive tactics are limited. Blocking with one blade and follow up strikes to counter is a common technique, often times using thrust and horizontal slice attacks to keep your foe from closing in, as distance is an advantage against one handed users and some shield bearers. It's easy to grasp the basic's, but extremely difficult to master as it requires great dexterity, meaning one must have a constant awareness of where they attack from, as well as where the opponent's guard is. Misdirection and power striking are the most crucial aspects of such a form.
Of course, this would be a poor choice on the battle field. It's more of a one on one duel kind of thing.
If your more interested in dual wielding swords, check out Krabi-krabong. This was the ancient martial arts used in war in thailand.
Could someone who's ambidextrous effectively use two swords of the same length? For example, two wakizashi rather than a wakizashi and katana combo. I've heard others talk about dual wielding, mainly rapier and dagger, and it seemed like yes the dagger was used for defense, but also for offensive diversion. IE, strike the opponent's sword with the dagger while at the same time thrusting with your own sword. I'm certainly not trying to criticize or discredit historical fighting styles, but I just feel it would make more sense to use two wakizashi, or even a wakizashi/tanto combo, as opposed to a katana/wakizashi combo, mainly because the katana is meant to be used with two hands. I feel like using the katana with only one hand would be awkward and more difficult.
***** thanks dude
A friend of mine was trying to dual-wield with my Falchion [I'm pretty sure its a falchion, it looks similar to your Orcrist but is almost 4' long with an 18" hilt, full crossguard ans gentle S-curve from the tip of the blade to the end of the pommel] and his nunchaku. He wasn't grasping the concept that both are 2-handed weapons [based on the length and balance of the hilt of the falchion its a 2.5 hand sword as there are 3 different places you can grip it depending on the strike or guard you are trying to perform].
Hi
Just a question about dual wielding and about Musashi.
He developed a system for dual wielding and (if I am correct) used a wakizashi and a katana. He wa pretty effective through some dacades so he had plenty of time to perfect his system which he obviously did. But why didn't he design a new type of sword for this? Wakizashi is a 1 handed sword but katanas are for 2 handed use. If you are a badass super talent samurai, of course you can use the katana in 1 hand (he did) but if you have decades for it, why don't you order a sword for your new style?
I don't mean radical changes here, maybe just the blade / hilt proportions because in dual wielding, you really don't need a 2 handed hilt
thanx
Late to the party, but the chinese have an art which uses 2 equal length short swords called butterfly swords. The reason for this is that practitioners of wingchun train to use both hands in both attack and defence so both weapons are of equal length to facilitate that, then the swords should be slightly shorter than the user's for arms so that they can rotate them inside their armspan to perform some of the techniques.
dual wielding was originated in fantasy books not in video games, it shows up in stories a good 30 years earlier. it was then also in dungeons and dragons a good 20 years before it was in video games.
there are many stances but the main one is extending your arms slightly from the waist with both swords pointing at the enemy's abdomen.
Dual wielding two pommels to end them rightly..
Dual wielding in Duels was actually pretty common. There were even specializedeapons, called "left hand daggers", designed to parry or even catch and break the oponents blade.
Some of them had also several blades (used e.g. in Spain), like this:
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springklingendolch#/media/File:Left_hand_dagger_w-spring.JPG
My question would be theoretical: Would it be possible to modify such a dagger so you could use the 3blade-mechanism to inflict heavier wounds to a (non armored) enemy?
As a non European, who enjoys the use of two swords I would have to call this conjecture.
I really respect your cleft chin dude !
While I understand in large battles it is not viable, dual-wielding can be slightly more than just duel related I think. The reason people enjoy the two weapon attack style as a concept, is that you are surrounded by multiple enemies and you with your own skill can defeat them even without a shield. In fact I can even imagine a historical situation that such a tactic might be necessary. Lets say you enter a 1vs1 duel, but your opponent has no honor and ambushes you with his hired goons. Now it is 1v3 or 1v4. The only method with dual-wielding that will help you survive this situation is to use 1 sword to guard and attack from 1 angle, and another sword to do the same from a second angle. Fighing in the usual 1v1 style will get you killed here. You must hit multiple enemies at a time or defend against them from multiple angles. Therefore you must have mental awareness of enemy positioning and must check with your eyes every so often as to who is where. It is difficult, but I'm sure there were at least a handful of these situations throughout the world's history in every culture where duels happened in this manner. And those who accomplished such things, even if they died from injury, were praised for their skill to cut down more than one foe with no shield. The skill and mental discipline required to do something like this is impressive. To take down 3 or 4 foes with no shield is heroic. To survive to tell the tale is legendary. So is it any wonder that dual-wielding is sometimes over hyped and romanticised? The few who managed such things would be slightly mythologized, as would their improvised style of dual- wielding. My point is, the style of offensive two weapon combat against multiple foes came from somewhere in history. These are simply my thoughts on where that is and why the style is even considered viable at all. Because some will argue it is 100% unviable and /or historically inaccurate. I hope my comment helps those people realize that they are mistaken.
Many have the opinion that dual wielding was only done in the context of individual combat and civilian contexts, and that it was an improvisation by people who didn't have access to better armaments.
yes I agree it was done in the context of individual combat, but I don't fully agree with the idea of it being an improvisation, becasue there are many treatises particularly here in Italy which lead us to think it was practiced by sword masters.
Also sword and buckler was rather common in England, and the idea of using a dagger together with the buckler to me sounds very intelligent. Anyhow you could be right and I could be wrong, we never stop learning ;) Thanks for watching anyways :D
I think the only time I'd want to have two swords would be if I had a one handed weapon such as a rapier or arming sword and had no shield available. For example, if I was surprised/ambushed and my shield was far out of reach, but there were two one-handed swords in reach, I would grab both. But sword/shield has a huge advantage over sword/sword so it'd basically just be if I had no other option.
an older video perhaps but not bad.
Any newer ones ever made for this and for varied weapons,
if one were to 'do so.' ?
what do you think about Escrima, Filipino stick fighting? that's an interesting dual wielding technique.
Good video, in the Nichiiten sword school of Miyamoto Musashi, and elucidated in the book of 5 rings. The two katana method is akin to kung fu dual diao flower techniques but perhaps less flaring/tricking. figure 8 or void taisaki similar to aikijujitsu empty hand moves applied.
Musashi in 5 rings mentions that you should use 2 long swords for training, and that after mastered using two long swords you move on to wakizashi.
I thought he was gonna say the longer one was for slashing and the smaller was for stabbing
Dual wielding two regular length swords of equal length, true, its not as fast, but its still pretty fast, and has more cover area. With a longer sword, you hold it vertically on your side, a slash would have to go higher or lower to get through. With a shorter sword, not as much. Also, when both swords are equal in length, they re both as good attacking and defending.
So the final battle in the King Arthur movie, where the saxon king is dual wielding with a sword and a dagger would be the proper way to dual wield.
Fun fact! Musashi was also quite adept at throwing his wakizashi, which made for a fairly unpleasant surprise for his opponents I'm quite sure.
wow I didnt know that , Musashi will not stop amazing me anytime soon, it seems.
If you parry with your finger on the hilt and your opponents blade slips down onto said finger. It's gonna break it.
There is some stuff in IIRC one of Fiore's manuscripts about using two rapiers. Although, its a similar situation, just more ambidextrous, one defends and the other strikes. Preferably in one motion haha
SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger Fiore doesn't deal with rapiers as they didn't exist yet, so I suspect that you are thinking of Agrippa or someone later on.
Fiore does , however, show dual wielding with clubs, altho I believe that he tells you to throw the second club, then rush in with the first :p
I'm way late to the party, but I"m wondering how you feel about other Asian martial arts (chinese gung fu, filipino/indoesian martial arts, silat, etc) where training with twin weaponry of the same size is regularly practiced.
And how about reverse grip. Is that really fiction or it was actually used?
+xxteareyexx
As proven by Skallagrim it is possible and it does indeed work.
Well, even so I would be glad seeing what Metatron can tell us about it ;)
Skallagrim also said, that there're more disadvantages than advantages...
"icepick grip", as its called, is usually used more with knife that with a sword.
Its taught because you aren't ALWAYS able to pick up a weapon in a normal grip - if you just grab a knife in a hurry out of a knife block, for example, you don't necessarily have time to turn the weapon around.
Biomechanically, it's great for defense. It acts in correlation to our arms so we can absorb heavier impacts and spring them back. Also, skallagrims video was flawed and lacked real experience. He was using reverse grip and still attacking/defending like it was in a normal grip. A different grip requires different attack methods. Reverse grips aren't really *limited* to close range, more like they *excel* , it's more comfortable to weild and a lot more aggressive. I love dual wielding with only my left sword in reverse grip. It's so effective.
I'd be hearing your analysis of gladius and scutum vs rapier and dagger. It's historical nonsense, of course, but I'd love to hear a discussion of the strengths of really big shield and short sword vs really long sword and little shield. My guess is that the Roman gear would be vastly better in formation, but I don't know about in a one on one match. I wonder if it would have been a lot of footwork, the gladius fighter trying to close the distance and the rapier wielder trying to get a clear shot around the scutum, followed by a quick kill by one or the other.
hey man lovin ur stuff id like to get ur opinion on light sabers and their various and forms keeping in mind force sensitivity also double bladed swords ur thoughts and finally spartans lost against romans im curious and finally can u shed some light on some of the bs from the deadliest warrior show lol
He says the word "harikiri" is more popular in the West than "seppuku", maybe it was in 2014 or it is in Europe, but I'd never heard the word "harikiri" until this video.
theoretically it is possible to dual wield 2 short swords of equal size, but it would require one to be ambidextrous and able to switch between left hand stance and right hand stance. This would enable one to keep their opponent off balance by constantly switching up in the middle of combat. Given the tendency of most people to have a dominant hand it is more likely to use a larger weapon in the dominant hand and a smaller in the weaker hand. This is exactly why shields are so prominent as they require little skill to use effectively and they can easily be used in the off hand or attached to that arm freeing up the warriors focus on they sword in their dominant hand.
The Koreans actually knew and applied a technique with two identical swords, was called "Ssang geom" and was the most difficult technique to master among all those present in the great manual "Muyedobotonji" written in 1790. Although it was well mastered only by a few swordsmen, had the advantage to be able to simultaneously exploit both the swords both to attack and to defend and it fit well, if practiced correctly, even to combat on horseback. The swords used were mainly short size swords or medium size single-edged swords similar to japanese katanas.
Andrea Gullo exactly, applying European ideals and understanding to Asian swords is foolish at best. He keeps emphasizing a longer sword because of the "range" because European swords were thrusting weapons more than cutting weapons, while eastern swords were cutting weapons, not thrusting weapons. You can cut with a longsword but not as effectively as a katana and you can thrust with a katana but not as effectively as with a longsword.
European swords are derived from the more primitive weapon, the spear. While eastern weapons were not.
Hey Metatron, I haven't seen a video so far but if you were an archer and equipped with a bow sword and dagger and entered into melee combat would two handing say an arming sword or standard short sword if sufficient room or drawing your dagger and dual wielding be the best approach
one complaint and I could be wrong in all my studies of the samurai it was said that the Tanto was used to commit hara kiri not the wakazashi as the blade itself is to long
in Korea and sometimes in Vietnam, they use this technique in places that have small space and NOT USE THIS VS SHIELD
Dear Metatron,
Did you happen to come across dual wielding in Thai martial arts?
The swords are matching in length. If you search Phutthaisawan School of Warfare, you may see how they used same length swords to fight.
if i remember well in the exist a elite mongol troops what uses dual wielding twins swords not very long. they did simultaneous attacks
I am a year late but just discovered your channel and I am a fan.
I do have two questions.
You did talk about rapier and dagger, But I have been working with a sword and dagger manuscript in the past, written by
Giacomo Di Grassi.
wiktenauer.com/wiki/Giacomo_di_Grassi
He also has writings on sword and cloak btw.
Also.. do you know where to find a manuscript of sword and buckler and dagger? I know its not in I:33 and neither in any Talhoffer writings. very curious
Butter knife can be a deadly weapon too :)
Could you please make a video giving hints of how to use maces and mangols (mace with Chaim) plz???
Leonardo Paula I'll consider it ^^ Thank you for watching and commenting, and for the suggestion :D
medieval II total war kingdoms soundtrack. yayy :D
Erm...wouldn't you use the third "sword" (it's really more of a dagger) - the Tanto - to disembowel yourself? It's kind of awkward to do it with a Wakizashi...
In Iaido I learned that the Wakizashi is/was used for situations in which the Katana is too long - inside, for example.
I'm dual wielding a sword and a lightning spell.
In my opinion dual wielding refers to two equal swords. They should be of same length, weight and balance as they are to be used both for the same purposes: strikes and counterstrikes (master cuts). I would not recommend dual wielding swords with the intent to block or parry. Any shield will do this job much better.
+doppelwaffen Well first thing to say is that "dual wield" is not a historical term, it was never used, it was born in RPG.
Having said that, although I understand your points with history it's not really a matter of what could function better as opposed to what wouldn't, it's about what people did, which is not always the same.
In the case of "dual wielding" with swords we mostly have two civilizations who did it, the Japanese with Musashi and the northern Italians, but only in the context of duelling atleast for the latter, and if you look at the treaties you can use a sword to parry or to attack, in both western and oriental systems, however it is strongly preponderant the concept of using the shorter blade for defence.
+Metatron If something wasn't done in history we have two possibilities:
1. People did not know.
2. It didn't work.
I'd place any bet that the fencing masters did know. So in my opinion there's strong evidence it didn't work. But... it didn't work in their system.
Dual shamshir is shown in Persian manuals and taught in Razmafzar. The fighters wore heavy armour, so I guess cover wasn't that vital.
Who did it very effectively where the Russian Cossacks. However, their system ist converse to any other martial art I know.
hey +metatron could you make a video about the recent game of thrones episode (ep 3 season 6) where arthur dayne fights with what looks like two longswords? it looked pretty good but was edited very fast so its hard to have a proper look at the scenes
although matt easton will probably make a video on it, would still be interested in your opinions though