You really make a good point. No $200 watch will ever be "as good" as a $10,000 watch, but if you can get 95% of the way for 2% of $10,000, then THAT is an outstanding value. It really demonstrates the high cost of having the very best. You pay an awful lot for that last 5%.
My point has berm that most of the difference now lies in movements so partner with seagull on an upgraded st2130, and then you have a $400 watch that would be a legit Swiss alt.
This is the best way to explain why Chinese brands have a place on every collector “with a limited “ budget box. Thank you for giving me ammo against my snobby friends who only own “one” watch. 😊
@@etebol Everything in life is like that. A $200 million house in a lot better than a $2 million house, but a $2 million house is still a pretty nice house. And BOTH could be something you really don't need. Even if I had the cash, I would never want to wear $20,000 on my wrist. The people with real money don't flash. Only the pretenders do that.
@@Marty4650 I would have to digress with the last part of your comment. If I had a ton of money, which I don’t, it would certainly allow me to get a $10k watch. And by getting it I would not be pretending, I would simply be able to wear that El Primero or JLC that are my grails, and in that be able to enjoy a fine piece of horology. Let us not forget that most people don’t know enough about watches to distinguish a $10k watch from a $1k, a pretender would be better off spending all his/her money in a luxury vehicle, not a watch. Thank you for sharing.
It comes down to the Rule of Deminishing Returns. The first 80% of "quality" is relatively easy to get to. However once you need that final 20% the costs escalate exponentially.
Thanks for taking the time to put this together. The fact that this video would not have been possible five years ago means the consumers are the winners. All the brands you mentioned are terrific. Seestern falls under Sugess, but they have some excellent values. Baltany is essentially the Ali King of Vintage style IMO, and lately if you’re looking for an excellent value homage brand, Watchdives is a consideration. Thanks again!
Interesting take on Sugess and Cronos and San Martin. I have a few Rolex homages from all three and I am very impressed. I have San Martin Sn0017 hulk, Cronos Pepsi gmt, Sugess Daytona Le Mans. They are all great but Sugess stands out more than the others and most likely closest to the original. Incredibly comfortable to wear. But it comes at a premium price. On this sale I decided to also get Hruodland Pilot turbine, Sugess Top Time but the blue version, Sugess black sub (sellita movement) and Cronos Smurf PT5000 movement. Now need to figure out how to receive the packages without wife noticing… 😂
From my personal experience Proxima quality is absolutely impeccable, their watches with PT5000 cost about the same as San Martin with an NH35 and I will take a well regulated PT5000 over an NH35 any day and twice on Sunday.
Thanks for the video ! So if I want the cheaper watch i'd go for Pagani Design, if I want a chronograph i'd go for Sugess, if I want a diver watch i'd go for Addiesdive/Steeldive, if I want a titanium watch I'd go for Boderry & if I want your pick for value & originality touch & I'm ready to spend little more money i'd go for San Martin as if I want to be different to others Aliexpress customers i'd go for Proxima ? And that's best Aliexpress brands to go for ? Or just the famous ones ? What about Seestern, Berny, Baltany, Cadisen, Tandorio, Steelflier, etc. ? Coming on another video of the type ? I like the way you've chosen to implemente a coefficient to your notes. Is originality the most important or value ? Cause those brands are all into the hommage stuff. I would say value is the best, then quality. But I understand someone's prioritizing originality. And I agree catalogue is last. Catalogue is a parameter to improve for the brand itself not customer feedback. PS: I totally forgot about Cronos, why should I pick a Cronos watch ? I am still wondering wich watch I want to buy, one of those Aliexpress brands or a Casio. For now, Casio still winning in top of my wish list.
The Sugess ST19 movement's history can be traced back to 1961, when the Tianjin Watch Factory purchased equipment from a Swiss manufacturer, Venus, including machinery and blue prints for the watch 175 calibers. So you are basically getting a Swiss movement for around $100. For this reason alone Sugess should have been on top of the list. As far as originality they are into making homage watches so your not going to get many original options.
Personally, I would not put much emphasis on originality. I say this for two reasons. First, the AliExpress brands are the kings of copy/paste. This is what they are known for. I don't really expect them to be original and I'm not sure I want them to be. Second, if I want originality at a reasonable price, I'm more likely to go to microbrands like Erebus or Islander, or to big brands like Orient and Citizen. If you take originality out of the equation, Cronos moves up next to San Martin. That being said, when it comes to value, I agree 100% with your assessment of Steeldive/Addiesdive and Pagani Design. Even if they are not the best quality, if you want a nice, affordable watch, they are great choices.
Thank you very much for your constructive comment. I wanted to reward originality although I have it a lower coefficient because I do believe it's something very important, and 8t may allow for an Aliexpress to really go mainstream and add value and influence. San Martin is headed the right direction but they still have a long way to go.
The only things I can see that would affect your list is the size of your bankroll and the style of watch that you want. I have some of each brand except Proxima and Cronos. Tandorio is a brand that you should have included. They have excellent value and are some of the least expensive for what you get. I bought a Serica copy for under $100 USD with a PT-5000 movement. It’s the only PT-5000 watch I could find for anywhere near that price. If your cap is $100 Pagani and Tandorio won’t disappoint for what you pay.
One argument about Ali express watches is being on a budget you can purchase several watches to rotate instead of just a single mid range seiko, and most will have the same movement inside.
I'm not sure I agree with the way you criticized Boderry for being inspired by Tudor with the Admiral GMT while calling the Voyager "something that was quite original." The Voyager is essential a copy of the Bertucci A2T (even the odd 4 o'clock date wheel and the 22mm lug width) but with regular spring bars instead of the Bertucci's fixed spring bars. I don't think that counts as originality.
Pagani Design quality is far better than stated as of late. Significantly improved. I own 17 Paganis. Only 1 disappointed and it was their bracelet. A Jubillee version with the wrong end links for a Yacht Master homage. It has been their bracelets that has some quality control issues. Their AP, Omega and Rolex homages are superb.
I think, for a tier list we needed a bit more diversity. Forsining, Merkur, Parnis, Skmei, Wwwoor, Lige, Olevs, Winner, Lobinni, Starking, Reef Tiger, Cadisen, Carnival, Bobobird, Moonbiffy, Specht, Soki etc. When taking the whole range of Ali brands into account, Pagani is way better than D-tier, as there is so much stuff below.
Agree with most. I think Proxima should be on a similar level to Cronos. They have some good value with enamel dials and top customer service but not very original designs.
Steeldive/Addiesdive/Steelflier I have the following: Tuna, 1970, Blancpain fifty-fathoms in bronze, W10, the dune dial Addiesdive etc. Pretty broad range.
San Martin has raised their prices more than other brands in this inflation last few years. I think that's just what happens when you get this much hype and recognition among the watch-nerds, and they have been very powerful in giving RUclips channels and influencers for reviews, since the pandemic. I got hooked around 2021, but still only got the Sub Retro Diver SN004-g, earlier edition with printed dial and still love it! And my Proxima PX1701 39mm ( I think it's Christopher Ward Sapphire homage) in orange and blue, just might be my favorite watch! I love that case and how niche they are.
I just value the feeling the watch gives me and knowing that it's not a cheap copy of something popular, and Proxima gave me that with PX 1701. Equally, with the 38mm bond retro diver from San Martin. They both feel great.
You’re very tough with Pagani Design because they build homages like San Martin ! Even if there is no originality for the design, the value is one of the best on this chinese market ! I love San Martin watches but for the same price you can also buy some Citizen or Orient… A matter of opinion ;-)
And you make a great point! I only believe San Martin are a bit ahead because they do make original designs and have been building on them quiet a lot lately
Like to see some different movements on Aliexpress watches. Tired of all the seiko movements. Won't spend 200 or 300 for a San Martin with a nh35 movement.
Proxima and Wise are my top choice. The Proxima Tuna with that silver dial and 7 day circular calendar is just awesome. With it's mono block case that thing is a beast. Wise has that new chocolate GMT polished like a boss that just jumps out at you.
Excellent comparison of some of the best from Ali Express. Only thing I disagree with is your rating of Cronos. Owning the BB38 and Explorer 39 homages, I think their quality is excellent for the money. Based on my experience they are on par with Sugess and deserve B tier overall. Great video Olivier!
Thank you so much! I actually agree with you on Cronos quality, they are practically equal to San Martin, it's the other criteria that drags them lower on the score. Cheers!
When buying cheap (inexpensive) Chinese watches in the general category of those discussed here, I don't really care about originality. If Cronos, for example, started producing watches that looked more like Xeric offerings, would that put them in a higher tier? If a watch brand made original, crazy-ass looking watches for next to nothing in price, but with the quality of hot, steaming garbage, I guess that puts them in a higher tier. C'mon, man.
I own a few Sugess and Seestern watches now. Even got one of their new aventurine dial tourbillon watches. Originality isn't their strong suit, but they do put some nice watches out. My 11.11 watch is the Seestern s456 GS homage for under $200. Not an exact copy, but pretty close still.
Nice review! Based on my limited experience, I generally agree. Two thoughts come to mind. First, I wonder if the Addiesdive sand dune watch could be considered an original design, since as far as I'm aware, the only really similar dial on the market is by San Martin, they are not identical, and I'm not sure which came first. Second, do you think there is any value in including customer care as a rating in your scheme? One could assume that all of these brands are alike in that regard, but I had a great experience with Red Star, while Boderry has been less than stellar so far (jury is still out).
Hello and thank you for your feedback! Believe it or not I really thought about including Customer Care but I really haven't had to use it yet (weird right?) and with no experience I couldn't include it. I could ask you guys, but that might take a while...
More Realistic rating San martin Quality-8.9 Originality-4 Catalog-5 Finishing-8 Lume-8 Value-5 Addiesdive/steeldive Quality-7.5(for watches above 60$) 5.5(for less than 60$) Originality-2 Catalog-5 Finishing-7(except for some rough edges on their bracelets) Lume-8 Value-8 Sugees/seestern Quality-7.5(seestern) 6.8(sugess) Originality-5 Catalog-5 Finishing-6 Lume-5 Value-6 Boderry Quality-6.5 Originality-6 Catalog-2 Finishing-6 Lume-6 Value-7 Pagani design Quality-6 Originality-1 Value-9 Finishing-6(on most watches) 4 (on a couple of models) Lume-2 Catalog-8 Proxima Quality-7 Originality-3 Catalog-3 Finishing-7 Lume-7 Value-5 Cadisen Quality-5.5 Originality-2 Finishing-5 Lume-? Catalog-1 Value-7 Baltany Quality-8.3 Originality-1 Catalog-3 Finishing-8 Lume-7 Value-7 Lobinni Quality-8.5 Originality-8(could be 6 because if some swiss and german markings, i dont care though) Catalog-3 Finishing-8 Lume-? Value-6.6(very good but a bit pricey still less pricey than san martin though ) I don't have watches of any other Chinese brands Tier list San-martin - A-tier (Best quality in aliexpress tied with baltany in my opinion not that great of a value atleast where i live could be also B-tier because of higher price but quality is very good so A-tier in my opinion) Addies/steeldive. - S-tier (i have 6 addiesdive watches, all of them are great one was dead on arrival but replaced promptly, could be B-tier because of their logo but i don't mind it) Sugess/seestern. - B-tier(all of their chrono's are good but many people are saying their movements are broken after a couple of years, but mine runs fine after 2.6 years of regular use, seestern s434v2 with blue dial and gold crown and st2130 is one of my favorite watches) Proxima. - C-tier(have the meteorite dial px1702 with the hangzhou movement, the movement is good but i thought i liked the design don't like it that much, least worn watch of my collection)quality is not great but also not that bad Boderry. - B-tier (i have both voyager and urban, voyager is fine great value for money but the non skeleton urban is great, design is not for everyone, but i like it, also has a crazy hangzhou 7200 movement the second best decorated of all my watches 28800bph and also has an crazy power reserve of nearly 3 days Cadisen. - C-tier (Have their miyota 9015 dress watch, very slim case, nice design good value for money) Pagani design. - S-tier (have more than 10 pd watches, every single one of them is good, especially brilliant for the money, especially the pd1723 air king salmon dial, crazy watch for the money cheapest pt5000 watch, brilliant dial color but they should've kept the long old version's seconds hand) just like casio , pagani design is god tier) Lobinni. - S-tier (have their micro rotor and one of their dress watch with 7m01 movement best decorated of all of my watches even better than tissot prx, and any other stupid seikos(king seiko with 6r31 which costs 5x the money of this watch, while it lasts 3 days at 21600 bph, 7m01 lasts 3 days with 28800bph i dont know how long 7m01 will last though but couldn't care less since the movement costs 60$, I'd buy a new one and swap it, great build and finishing) Baltany. - A-tier (really high quality watch, very well built doesn't have the best specs for the money but still good, especially their mechanical bronze dirty dozen watch with titanium back case)
That's well put together! I think San Martin is getting much better in the originality department. I can see them departing from the Ali brands at some point. If they build a much better website, which would include a native english speaker for the translation. I'm surprised for Proxima, but I don't own one. It just seems that their flagship Christopher Ward case is very well made.
I have the boderry sea turtle in bronze.. the new 2024 models are 200 meters water resistant compared to the previous ones with only 100 meters.. I am very happy with this watch it is the watch I chose for this summer
@@Horologique the rotation of the bezel is normal, it doesn't have an excellent noise but it is very precise with its 120 clicks and has no play in positioning, furthermore the bezel is also made of bronze
The Boderry Voyager, their flagship, seems to me just a Bertucci watch with lyre lugs. I don’t know that I would agree with that 7 for originality. Nice little watch, though.
Bonjour à toi. Avant tout merci et bravo pour ces vidéos instructives sur le monde de l'horlogerie. Je me permet de commenter cette vidéo en particulier car je tombe de haut en voyant tes notes et ton classement concernant Pagani Design. En effet sur plusieurs vidéo de ta chaîne je t'ai vu vraiment parlé avec enthousiasme de certains modèles (PD1701, PD1690 thiffany, daytona hommage etc) au point de me laisser tenter et d'acheter 2 modèles que tu as présenté et fortement conseillé en insistant sur la qualité des matériaux. Encore une fois j'ai conscience du rapport qualité/prix et je n'attendais pas plus de ces modèle. J'en suis d'ailleurs très satisfait et ce sont mes seuls modèles aliexpress et entrée de gamme. Je possède du seiko, tissot, hamilton, orient et 2 tag heuer par ailleurs. J'ai donc pu les comparer en tenant compte du rapport qualité prix que tu évoque dans cette vidéo. Mais quand je tombe sur un classement ou tu met la marque carrément en catégorie D (souvent associé à la catégorie poubelles dans les tiers list) je trouve que cela n'a aucune cohérence avec les autres vidéo ou tu parle de cette marque avec plus d'objectivité en de franchise. J'ai l'impression claire d'avoir été berné par tes vidéos presentation de certains modèle en voyant comemnt tu considère cette marque en la comparant aux autres cités dans cette vidéo qui pour la plupart n'ont pas le rapport qualité prix de Pagani. Déçu donc de ta conclusion sur cette marque et du classement. 😢
Bonjour et merci pour ton retour. Je te remercie beacoup d'avoir suivi mes conseils et je me répète, côté rapport qualité prix Pagani Design est imbattable. Sauf que depuis peu il y a plein d'autres marques qui sont arrivées qui nous donnent une meilleure qualité pour à peine plus : Steeldive, Baltany, Militado entre autres. Dana ce paysage je ne peux pas mettre Pagani bien haut, même si je conseille encore vivement certains de leurs modèles, et notamment l'hommage delà de la 11.59 qui est juste merveilleux pour environ 50 euros et là je suis sûr que pour le prix on ne fera pas mieux. Mais en effet, j'ai sans doute été trop sévère avec Pagani qui aurait mérité être une note au dessus (attention, dans ce classement la note de Pagani ne veut pas dire poubelle)
Pagani quality 3 but san Martin 8 😂😅 you cracked me up , ya hate on Pagani cause they make a lot of homages Addiesdive and pagani have their own original desighs
One of my best watches i have is the Heimdallr SKX007 Monster (€ 145.-) The Lume is way better then on my both San Martins and the finish is excellent. A big disappointment on the other Hand is the San Martin SN007-GB (62MAS 39mm) This Watch is "unfinished". Plain Caseback, unfinished watch base, unpolished ultrasharp edges and no drilled lugs. The second San Martin, a SN047 (Captain Willard) has exactly the same problem... They can't do case bottoms!!! Sharp edges everywere! These are all potato peelers 🤣 And now the quality surprise: The Proxima PX1711-1A This watch is the best i have seen so far from all Ali-brands. The case finish is excellent and "way" more better then San Martin. And yes, you forgot Baltany 🤣👍 By the way: My most "bullshit watch" is the Seestern 62MAS v3... thats the biggest shit i'v ever seen 🤣 Everything on this watch is missaligned and the support is non-existent 👎 I would never buy a Seestern again...
Fair assessment I think. I would like to hear your thoughts on "Bernie." They look interesting, seem to be fairly well received by Ali x enthusiasts. I have not pulled the trigger on one yet. And how about "Merkur?" Any thoughts?
Berny has a little homage to a Seiko 5 that has a mechaquartz movement and sapphire that is really good grab and go watch. I have a railway type Berny with the whole dial lumed that was good also. People bitch about the company name. I think the Seiko deal just has a logo.
How can rank all these pedestrian companies without pedigree, and completely overlook Tandorio as the emperor of Chinese watch making? Their quality is not even a matter of doubt, but their true historical significance and current status as OEM for Rolex, Patek, Audry Mar's Piglet, and other Swiss con artist companies, sets it apart from the rest! Mind you, their history got deliberately wiped, since Swiss-Italian Luigi Tandorio ended up as a crown witness against Goehring in 1945, because his small (so small, it was unknown outside Switzerland) Swiss watch company had made Flieger watches for the Luftwaffe, and he insisted on a permanent home in USA, which they gave to him. Mind you, to this day, there are rumours about how they managed to make so many watches in a 5 person shop, more than 18 thousand of them in 7 years, and there were a lot of trucks in the neighbourhood, that had watch deliveries fall off the back and were never found again, but that's a different story. From there it went a wee sideways, because his son Johnny Tandorio, became "Don" Tandorio in Brooklyn (but that's a different story, knowaddameen?), and Don sort of made a family tradition out of going into witness protection in 1968 himself. So Johnny "Don" Tandorio then settled in Hong Kong and took his daddy's watch factory tools with him, so Tandorio got established in China! 27 years later, the now senile "Don" Tandorio eventually took a scuba-dive in the Bay of Hong Kong without his air-tank and could not come up again, because the quick release on his concrete dive-boot weights got stuck, so his grand-kids took over the then still fake watch factory in 2005. In 2027, not having other income after Don's witness protection money ran out, they quit making junk just as a cover, and switched to selling quality watches that fell off a ship straight from the Swiss Alps! When those ran out, they used the money to buy Japanese second hand tools from an accidentally burned out factory in Shinshu. This is, when they came to the attention of the Chinese FBI, who arrested them all. Since the Tandorio factory was however already established and had made some deals, they kept the name for the now state-owned company, to catch more crooks, and eventually ran it as a clean operation, producing high quality watches, that are now well respected. These are the watches we can now buy on AliExpress as "Tandorio", run by good honest Chinese business people and watch makers. So, you see, there is a rich and interesting history here. ADDENDUM: Luigi Tandorio 3rd bought the company back in 2013 and has improved the quality of Tandorio. It is all true, I swear! (I am NOT crossing my fingers behind my back!) (This is what happens, when you allow your child to watch too much television!)
I can't totally agree about Cronos (Lugyou factory) as I already own a brass model 62 mas for quite a while. It came like SM with tools and an extra wild leather armband in a flat black box. A lot of value for money. I could also order the same watch with some other brands on the dial too. And they had some other Seiko inspired models too if I remember correctly. Nowadays they have totally different models. Pagani design is like Paulareis.
Bonjour, Deux erreurs à mon avis: Proxima largement sous évalué car de bonne qualité et des design pas trop vus, et Boderry au contraire sur évalué car pauvre en choix et leur réputation repose sur un seul modèle. Absence de Baltany?
I always get a chuckle from the comments, you missed this brand and that brand. Before you know it you have 30 different brands. For the complainers, why don't you spend your own money and buy them all and make your own video?
I strongly disagree on your rankings. I think both Proxima and Chronos quality is better than you give them credit for. And, you missed even ranking some higher tier brands such as Baltany.
San Martin is the most popular, but getting boring with the NH3* movement, on he other hand I realy like some of Sugess models, they use different movements, Sea Gull and Seiko, have exelent reviews, both on youtube and from buyers.
The Proxima PX1703 is everything but an original design. It's a Zodiac Super Sea Wolf homage. By the way, I suggest next time you consider customer service as well. And what about Baltany?
Yes you are right, but they really put their own spin to it: different case, different bezel insert. I was really considering to include Customer service but I believe all Chinese brands are equally lacking here, so there's no point in that
Ridiculous assessment. You don't seem to understand what brand value means, also - why would anyone care about a brand catalogue size? PS: you seem to underestimate San Martin quite a bit and they're slowly becoming a name of their own.
What about other AliExpress brands like Heimdallr, Hruodland, Tandorio, Cadisen, Ixdao & Ipose, Welly Merck and the other weird name brands like Feelnever, Dagger Axe, Berny, Dwayne Campbell, Sea Knight, etc. I’m sure there are many more.
@@Horologique They are homage, but the quality of the casework and bracelet is top notch. The engineer has the insides of the h link and the connecting pieces polished and brushed in a way that most brands simply ignore or dont care about. All the casework is flawless, no over or under brushing and super clean lines and transitions. The dial and hands and indices are similarly well done. I paid extra for sw200. Only fault is butterfly clasp, but same as original, not my preference. It may be a homage, but its 98% as good as the £10, 000 original for £280. Im not a big homage fan, but in this case, wow.
I just finished getting of my AliExpress watches and will never go down that rabbit hole again. Not my cup of tea, but you guys have fun and enjoy your collections. 🥂
Proxima on the same tier as Pagani Design is just laughable. Their finishing is as good as San Martin and Cronos and way, way better than PD. Also, the use of the PT5000 is much to be preferred over the NH35 movements that SM cannot shake itself clear of.
Originality? I would opine Rolex has been skating on a theme that was established 70 years ago. Basically an extension of a theme realized by a design team that are no longer walking the face of the earth. And if you think of it there is not a lot you can do with a circle and a few sticks. Yes I do celebrate when a manufacturer come up with a new take on a circle and a few sticks. I have dozens. Catalog? San Martin has more offerings for sale than any three of the Big Swissies at any given moment if you exclude Ladies watches. Lately I have been impressed by Watchdives. Their Blanc Pain fathoms watch is heads and shoulders better than Blanc Pains best selling fathoms offering on the market today. I would take my Watchdives into a tense situation any day. I do wonder how Rolex would've scored on your scale. And as an aside ...... there was a Swiss watch making firm that supplied the various Swiss manufacturers with a submersible case before the Oyster. As I recall they had a decagonal caseback, greased cork seals in the crown and crown tube and enough money to but the machinery to carve the newly formulated stainless steel into watches. If you went to a Hollywood gala event, were invited to a professional tennis tournament you would have seen them on the courts or in the crowd as often as a Rolex. I would love to see one of these Chinese manufacturers homage the stainless Patek 565 with its stepless case and decagonal caseback. As always great video!
Thank you so much for your take! You are right about Rolex, innovation wise people give them way more credit than they deserve. Rolex lovers (90% of all big RUclips channels) will tell you it's because their models are so great they don't need to change them and that's true to6an extent, but we would love to see some real innovation, technically and in design
Side note.. that world map on the wall is way off. Australia is a massive continent. India is also huge. They are shown so small on that map compared to Africa & the Americas
all maps are distorted like that in one way or another. australia is empty compared to europe ....it would be like having a giant cyprus on every world map
Of almost 7 million views I have gotten on both my channels you are the first one to comment on the map! I had never noticed the size difference, it might be a camera thing because IRL it's exactly like all maps
I think all these brands offer great value that would cost well above what we pay and yes sometimes the quality control is bad but... For some that have a watch addition there great ! 😂.
Very dissapointing video. It's like making a tierlist of Swiss brands and include just 7 of them. Why make a tierlist if you know just 7 brands. And not even the most popular ones...
These watch manufacturers are just copying someone else's homework and and thing "original" is just something they cobbled together from other watch designs. None of these brands should go higher than the "B" Tier.
You really make a good point. No $200 watch will ever be "as good" as a $10,000 watch, but if you can get 95% of the way for 2% of $10,000, then THAT is an outstanding value. It really demonstrates the high cost of having the very best. You pay an awful lot for that last 5%.
That's a really sound analysis 👍. Indeed, it's the law of diminishing returns, and indeed the more you pay the less you get for every extra cash
My point has berm that most of the difference now lies in movements so partner with seagull on an upgraded st2130, and then you have a $400 watch that would be a legit Swiss alt.
This is the best way to explain why Chinese brands have a place on every collector “with a limited “ budget box. Thank you for giving me ammo against my snobby friends who only own “one” watch. 😊
@@etebol Everything in life is like that. A $200 million house in a lot better than a $2 million house, but a $2 million house is still a pretty nice house. And BOTH could be something you really don't need. Even if I had the cash, I would never want to wear $20,000 on my wrist. The people with real money don't flash. Only the pretenders do that.
@@Marty4650 I would have to digress with the last part of your comment. If I had a ton of money, which I don’t, it would certainly allow me to get a $10k watch. And by getting it I would not be pretending, I would simply be able to wear that El Primero or JLC that are my grails, and in that be able to enjoy a fine piece of horology. Let us not forget that most people don’t know enough about watches to distinguish a $10k watch from a $1k, a pretender would be better off spending all his/her money in a luxury vehicle, not a watch. Thank you for sharing.
It comes down to the Rule of Deminishing Returns. The first 80% of "quality" is relatively easy to get to. However once you need that final 20% the costs escalate exponentially.
Thanks for taking the time to put this together. The fact that this video would not have been possible five years ago means the consumers are the winners. All the brands you mentioned are terrific. Seestern falls under Sugess, but they have some excellent values. Baltany is essentially the Ali King of Vintage style IMO, and lately if you’re looking for an excellent value homage brand, Watchdives is a consideration. Thanks again!
There are so many other brands. Please do a part 2.
If there's enough interest in this one I will 😉
Interesting take on Sugess and Cronos and San Martin. I have a few Rolex homages from all three and I am very impressed. I have San Martin Sn0017 hulk, Cronos Pepsi gmt, Sugess Daytona Le Mans. They are all great but Sugess stands out more than the others and most likely closest to the original. Incredibly comfortable to wear. But it comes at a premium price.
On this sale I decided to also get Hruodland Pilot turbine, Sugess Top Time but the blue version, Sugess black sub (sellita movement) and Cronos Smurf PT5000 movement.
Now need to figure out how to receive the packages without wife noticing… 😂
Hello and thank you for your take. That's an interesting point! I haven't tested the Sugess, now I'm curious! I hope you make it alive 😂
From my personal experience Proxima quality is absolutely impeccable, their watches with PT5000 cost about the same as San Martin with an NH35 and I will take a well regulated PT5000 over an NH35 any day and twice on Sunday.
Thanks for the video !
So if I want the cheaper watch i'd go for Pagani Design, if I want a chronograph i'd go for Sugess, if I want a diver watch i'd go for Addiesdive/Steeldive, if I want a titanium watch I'd go for Boderry & if I want your pick for value & originality touch & I'm ready to spend little more money i'd go for San Martin as if I want to be different to others Aliexpress customers i'd go for Proxima ? And that's best Aliexpress brands to go for ? Or just the famous ones ?
What about Seestern, Berny, Baltany, Cadisen, Tandorio, Steelflier, etc. ? Coming on another video of the type ?
I like the way you've chosen to implemente a coefficient to your notes. Is originality the most important or value ? Cause those brands are all into the hommage stuff. I would say value is the best, then quality. But I understand someone's prioritizing originality. And I agree catalogue is last. Catalogue is a parameter to improve for the brand itself not customer feedback.
PS: I totally forgot about Cronos, why should I pick a Cronos watch ?
I am still wondering wich watch I want to buy, one of those Aliexpress brands or a Casio. For now, Casio still winning in top of my wish list.
San Martin is one of the best watch brands out there full stop.
The Sugess ST19 movement's history can be traced back to 1961, when the Tianjin Watch Factory purchased equipment from a Swiss manufacturer, Venus, including machinery and blue prints for the watch 175 calibers. So you are basically getting a Swiss movement for around $100. For this reason alone Sugess should have been on top of the list. As far as originality they are into making homage watches so your not going to get many original options.
Personally, I would not put much emphasis on originality. I say this for two reasons. First, the AliExpress brands are the kings of copy/paste. This is what they are known for. I don't really expect them to be original and I'm not sure I want them to be. Second, if I want originality at a reasonable price, I'm more likely to go to microbrands like Erebus or Islander, or to big brands like Orient and Citizen. If you take originality out of the equation, Cronos moves up next to San Martin. That being said, when it comes to value, I agree 100% with your assessment of Steeldive/Addiesdive and Pagani Design. Even if they are not the best quality, if you want a nice, affordable watch, they are great choices.
I'd agree with all of this except for PD - too many QC issues to put them down as a great choice.
Thank you very much for your constructive comment. I wanted to reward originality although I have it a lower coefficient because I do believe it's something very important, and 8t may allow for an Aliexpress to really go mainstream and add value and influence. San Martin is headed the right direction but they still have a long way to go.
Wouldn't say Islander is origin either, Mark basically makes homages of SKXs, Monsters and other Seikos. Improved upon but still homages imo.
I can't agree with your assessment of Pagani because every Pagani I own is an absolute banger!
The only things I can see that would affect your list is the size of your bankroll and the style of watch that you want. I have some of each brand except Proxima and Cronos. Tandorio is a brand that you should have included. They have excellent value and are some of the least expensive for what you get. I bought a Serica copy for under $100 USD with a PT-5000 movement. It’s the only PT-5000 watch I could find for anywhere near that price. If your cap is $100 Pagani and Tandorio won’t disappoint for what you pay.
OH HAIL Tandorio! I really really love my Pilot Diver watches!
Thanks Olivier for these Aliexpress bargains... Always great deals and hard to resist!
Glad you like them! I know you are a fan of San Martin. Cheers my friend and happy Sunday
Seestern?
i apreciatte your job, usefull tierlist. Will love to saw there Tandorio and Baltany brands. Cheers!
Thank you! As others have requested, I think I will have to do a part 2 with other watches
One argument about Ali express watches is being on a budget you can purchase several watches to rotate instead of just a single mid range seiko, and most will have the same movement inside.
That's why Value has twice and even 4 times the weight of the other criteria 😉
I'm not sure I agree with the way you criticized Boderry for being inspired by Tudor with the Admiral GMT while calling the Voyager "something that was quite original." The Voyager is essential a copy of the Bertucci A2T (even the odd 4 o'clock date wheel and the 22mm lug width) but with regular spring bars instead of the Bertucci's fixed spring bars. I don't think that counts as originality.
Yes agree. Baltany is making a name for themselves, with more unusual homages. Same with IX&DAO. The list wouldn’t change though.
Pagani Design quality is far better than stated as of late. Significantly improved. I own 17 Paganis. Only 1 disappointed and it was their bracelet. A Jubillee version with the wrong end links for a Yacht Master homage. It has been their bracelets that has some quality control issues. Their AP, Omega and Rolex homages are superb.
I think, for a tier list we needed a bit more diversity. Forsining, Merkur, Parnis, Skmei, Wwwoor, Lige, Olevs, Winner, Lobinni, Starking, Reef Tiger, Cadisen, Carnival, Bobobird, Moonbiffy, Specht, Soki etc. When taking the whole range of Ali brands into account, Pagani is way better than D-tier, as there is so much stuff below.
I agree with all your ratings and reasonings, very thoughtful indeed. Why didn’t you include two of the big hitters of late, Baltany and IXDAO?
Agree with most. I think Proxima should be on a similar level to Cronos. They have some good value with enamel dials and top customer service but not very original designs.
San Martin is the best watch!
You forgot Seestern, Octopus and Baltany!
Steeldive/Addiesdive/Steelflier I have the following: Tuna, 1970, Blancpain fifty-fathoms in bronze, W10, the dune dial Addiesdive etc. Pretty broad range.
Seestern, berny , ix&dao, baltany. Especially berny offering insane value for the specs they offer.
Many brands were missing, for example Baltany and Seestern. We are waiting for a more complete video.
+ Merkur, Watchdives.
They're are other YTers doing that
@@sharpe8888 For example?
@@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo watchdives=addiesdive=steeldive
@@luismasanchez9367 I don't think so.
I prefer Próxima, Baltany and Sugges
San Martin has raised their prices more than other brands in this inflation last few years. I think that's just what happens when you get this much hype and recognition among the watch-nerds, and they have been very powerful in giving RUclips channels and influencers for reviews, since the pandemic. I got hooked around 2021, but still only got the Sub Retro Diver SN004-g, earlier edition with printed dial and still love it! And my Proxima PX1701 39mm ( I think it's Christopher Ward Sapphire homage) in orange and blue, just might be my favorite watch! I love that case and how niche they are.
I just value the feeling the watch gives me and knowing that it's not a cheap copy of something popular, and Proxima gave me that with PX 1701. Equally, with the 38mm bond retro diver from San Martin. They both feel great.
Bodery are in no way original, the voyager is basically an automatic Bertucci, who owns the patent for the case.
Yeah that's an odd one
I doubt too many people will admit to that one, the Boderry field watch has one of the ugliest cases I've ever seen.
@@stuartthornton3027 bertucci and their straps actually work really well.
how about heimdallr watches ,they make awsome watches.
ROFL... I went to comments to tell you, Your mic is too low bud! But then at 0:05 it zoomed up and blasted me out. 😂 Thanks for the video.
Sorry about that. It's a brand new mic though because people were complaining about my older one....
@@Horologique LOL, no worries. Not sure it's the mic, just a glitch in the recording.
You’re very tough with Pagani Design because they build homages like San Martin ! Even if there is no originality for the design, the value is one of the best on this chinese market ! I love San Martin watches but for the same price you can also buy some Citizen or Orient… A matter of opinion ;-)
And you make a great point! I only believe San Martin are a bit ahead because they do make original designs and have been building on them quiet a lot lately
no militado? seems you missed quite a few
It puts me in a good mood when I hear this gentleman say San Martin(San Makhton)😂
😂
Like to see some different movements on Aliexpress watches. Tired of all the seiko movements. Won't spend 200 or 300 for a San Martin with a nh35 movement.
Exactly
Proxima and Wise are my top choice. The Proxima Tuna with that silver dial and 7 day circular calendar is just awesome. With it's mono block case that thing is a beast. Wise has that new chocolate GMT polished like a boss that just jumps out at you.
Excellent comparison of some of the best from Ali Express. Only thing I disagree with is your rating of Cronos. Owning the BB38 and Explorer 39 homages, I think their quality is excellent for the money. Based on my experience they are on par with Sugess and deserve B tier overall. Great video Olivier!
Thank you so much! I actually agree with you on Cronos quality, they are practically equal to San Martin, it's the other criteria that drags them lower on the score. Cheers!
I was looking for Baltany, a bit disapointed. Thx
When buying cheap (inexpensive) Chinese watches in the general category of those discussed here, I don't really care about originality. If Cronos, for example, started producing watches that looked more like Xeric offerings, would that put them in a higher tier? If a watch brand made original, crazy-ass looking watches for next to nothing in price, but with the quality of hot, steaming garbage, I guess that puts them in a higher tier. C'mon, man.
Sugess GMT BB Pro is a great homage - definitely not a fail👏
I own a few Sugess and Seestern watches now. Even got one of their new aventurine dial tourbillon watches. Originality isn't their strong suit, but they do put some nice watches out. My 11.11 watch is the Seestern s456 GS homage for under $200. Not an exact copy, but pretty close still.
Nice review! Based on my limited experience, I generally agree. Two thoughts come to mind. First, I wonder if the Addiesdive sand dune watch could be considered an original design, since as far as I'm aware, the only really similar dial on the market is by San Martin, they are not identical, and I'm not sure which came first. Second, do you think there is any value in including customer care as a rating in your scheme? One could assume that all of these brands are alike in that regard, but I had a great experience with Red Star, while Boderry has been less than stellar so far (jury is still out).
Hello and thank you for your feedback! Believe it or not I really thought about including Customer Care but I really haven't had to use it yet (weird right?) and with no experience I couldn't include it. I could ask you guys, but that might take a while...
Octopus Kraken/Baltany is a quality brand. got a lot of those.
They are! I can't deal with the large Octopus logo but I love Baltany
Interesting thoughts. I find I'm most interested in Baltany and Berny these days Militado making some great budget pieces too.
More Realistic rating
San martin
Quality-8.9
Originality-4
Catalog-5
Finishing-8
Lume-8
Value-5
Addiesdive/steeldive
Quality-7.5(for watches above 60$) 5.5(for less than 60$)
Originality-2
Catalog-5
Finishing-7(except for some rough edges on their bracelets)
Lume-8
Value-8
Sugees/seestern
Quality-7.5(seestern) 6.8(sugess)
Originality-5
Catalog-5
Finishing-6
Lume-5
Value-6
Boderry
Quality-6.5
Originality-6
Catalog-2
Finishing-6
Lume-6
Value-7
Pagani design
Quality-6
Originality-1
Value-9
Finishing-6(on most watches) 4 (on a couple of models)
Lume-2
Catalog-8
Proxima
Quality-7
Originality-3
Catalog-3
Finishing-7
Lume-7
Value-5
Cadisen
Quality-5.5
Originality-2
Finishing-5
Lume-?
Catalog-1
Value-7
Baltany
Quality-8.3
Originality-1
Catalog-3
Finishing-8
Lume-7
Value-7
Lobinni
Quality-8.5
Originality-8(could be 6 because if some swiss and german markings, i dont care though)
Catalog-3
Finishing-8
Lume-?
Value-6.6(very good but a bit pricey still less pricey than san martin though )
I don't have watches of any other Chinese brands
Tier list
San-martin - A-tier (Best quality in aliexpress tied with baltany in my opinion not that great of a value atleast where i live could be also B-tier because of higher price but quality is very good so A-tier in my opinion)
Addies/steeldive. - S-tier (i have 6 addiesdive watches, all of them are great one was dead on arrival but replaced promptly, could be B-tier because of their logo but i don't mind it)
Sugess/seestern. - B-tier(all of their chrono's are good but many people are saying their movements are broken after a couple of years, but mine runs fine after 2.6 years of regular use, seestern s434v2 with blue dial and gold crown and st2130 is one of my favorite watches)
Proxima. - C-tier(have the meteorite dial px1702 with the hangzhou movement, the movement is good but i thought i liked the design don't like it that much, least worn watch of my collection)quality is not great but also not that bad
Boderry. - B-tier
(i have both voyager and urban, voyager is fine great value for money but the non skeleton urban is great, design is not for everyone, but i like it, also has a crazy hangzhou 7200 movement the second best decorated of all my watches 28800bph and also has an crazy power reserve of nearly 3 days
Cadisen. - C-tier
(Have their miyota 9015 dress watch, very slim case, nice design good value for money)
Pagani design. - S-tier
(have more than 10 pd watches, every single one of them is good, especially brilliant for the money, especially the pd1723 air king salmon dial, crazy watch for the money cheapest pt5000 watch, brilliant dial color but they should've kept the long old version's seconds hand) just like casio , pagani design is god tier)
Lobinni. - S-tier
(have their micro rotor and one of their dress watch with 7m01 movement best decorated of all of my watches even better than tissot prx, and any other stupid seikos(king seiko with 6r31 which costs 5x the money of this watch, while it lasts 3 days at 21600 bph, 7m01 lasts 3 days with 28800bph i dont know how long 7m01 will last though but couldn't care less since the movement costs 60$, I'd buy a new one and swap it, great build and finishing)
Baltany. - A-tier
(really high quality watch, very well built doesn't have the best specs for the money but still good, especially their mechanical bronze dirty dozen watch with titanium back case)
That's well put together!
I think San Martin is getting much better in the originality department.
I can see them departing from the Ali brands at some point. If they build a much better website, which would include a native english speaker for the translation.
I'm surprised for Proxima, but I don't own one. It just seems that their flagship Christopher Ward case is very well made.
Very good vid… thanks!
Interesting vid. Hopefuly the success of the orginal models will result in a turn to orginial design across aliexpress as a whole
@@Tyrone2714 thank you! Yes hopefully
I have the boderry sea turtle in bronze.. the new 2024 models are 200 meters water resistant compared to the previous ones with only 100 meters.. I am very happy with this watch it is the watch I chose for this summer
Good to know. How's the bezel rotation?
@@Horologique the rotation of the bezel is normal, it doesn't have an excellent noise but it is very precise with its 120 clicks and has no play in positioning, furthermore the bezel is also made of bronze
Good video! I almost agree. It is hard for me to put Boldry on the same tier as San Martin.
Thank you. I understand, but under the criteria I chose that's what it gets...
The Boderry Voyager, their flagship, seems to me just a Bertucci watch with lyre lugs.
I don’t know that I would agree with that 7 for originality. Nice little watch, though.
They are releasing some other stuff that's pretty original (that I know of)
@@Horologique that’s fair. I’ll have to recheck their catalogue.
Its actually an improvement in a lot of respects, unfortunately
No heimdallr in the list?
What.......
No Baltany, Aragon, Phoibos, Spinnaker?
If you buy Pagani right time, you can have great value. They sell some models under 50 dollars, that were previously 100 or more.
You should add Octopus to the list. As good as San Martin, and in some ways better
Bonjour à toi. Avant tout merci et bravo pour ces vidéos instructives sur le monde de l'horlogerie. Je me permet de commenter cette vidéo en particulier car je tombe de haut en voyant tes notes et ton classement concernant Pagani Design. En effet sur plusieurs vidéo de ta chaîne je t'ai vu vraiment parlé avec enthousiasme de certains modèles (PD1701, PD1690 thiffany, daytona hommage etc) au point de me laisser tenter et d'acheter 2 modèles que tu as présenté et fortement conseillé en insistant sur la qualité des matériaux. Encore une fois j'ai conscience du rapport qualité/prix et je n'attendais pas plus de ces modèle. J'en suis d'ailleurs très satisfait et ce sont mes seuls modèles aliexpress et entrée de gamme. Je possède du seiko, tissot, hamilton, orient et 2 tag heuer par ailleurs. J'ai donc pu les comparer en tenant compte du rapport qualité prix que tu évoque dans cette vidéo. Mais quand je tombe sur un classement ou tu met la marque carrément en catégorie D (souvent associé à la catégorie poubelles dans les tiers list) je trouve que cela n'a aucune cohérence avec les autres vidéo ou tu parle de cette marque avec plus d'objectivité en de franchise. J'ai l'impression claire d'avoir été berné par tes vidéos presentation de certains modèle en voyant comemnt tu considère cette marque en la comparant aux autres cités dans cette vidéo qui pour la plupart n'ont pas le rapport qualité prix de Pagani. Déçu donc de ta conclusion sur cette marque et du classement. 😢
Bonjour et merci pour ton retour. Je te remercie beacoup d'avoir suivi mes conseils et je me répète, côté rapport qualité prix Pagani Design est imbattable. Sauf que depuis peu il y a plein d'autres marques qui sont arrivées qui nous donnent une meilleure qualité pour à peine plus : Steeldive, Baltany, Militado entre autres. Dana ce paysage je ne peux pas mettre Pagani bien haut, même si je conseille encore vivement certains de leurs modèles, et notamment l'hommage delà de la 11.59 qui est juste merveilleux pour environ 50 euros et là je suis sûr que pour le prix on ne fera pas mieux. Mais en effet, j'ai sans doute été trop sévère avec Pagani qui aurait mérité être une note au dessus (attention, dans ce classement la note de Pagani ne veut pas dire poubelle)
@@Horologique merci d'avoir prit le temps de me répondre et de préciser ton choix. Rassuré de lire que tout n'est pas encore à jeter chez Pagani.
What about Baltany? They are worthy of A-tier, because they are above Steeldive and as good as Boderry, who get A-tier status.
Yes they might be there and I rate their stuff really highly in my videos but I don't think they have enough offers yet
Maybe not a big catalog yet, but quality and price above everyone that you mentioned in my imo
Pagani quality 3 but san Martin 8 😂😅 you cracked me up , ya hate on Pagani cause they make a lot of homages
Addiesdive and pagani have their own original desighs
One of my best watches i have is the Heimdallr SKX007 Monster (€ 145.-)
The Lume is way better then on my both San Martins and the finish is excellent.
A big disappointment on the other Hand is the San Martin SN007-GB (62MAS 39mm)
This Watch is "unfinished".
Plain Caseback, unfinished watch base, unpolished ultrasharp edges and no drilled lugs.
The second San Martin, a SN047 (Captain Willard) has exactly the same problem... They can't do case bottoms!!!
Sharp edges everywere! These are all potato peelers 🤣
And now the quality surprise: The Proxima PX1711-1A
This watch is the best i have seen so far from all Ali-brands.
The case finish is excellent and "way" more better then San Martin.
And yes, you forgot Baltany 🤣👍
By the way: My most "bullshit watch" is the Seestern 62MAS v3... thats the biggest shit i'v ever seen 🤣
Everything on this watch is missaligned and the support is non-existent 👎
I would never buy a Seestern again...
Fair assessment I think. I would like to hear your thoughts on "Bernie." They look interesting, seem to be fairly well received by Ali x enthusiasts. I have not pulled the trigger on one yet. And how about "Merkur?" Any thoughts?
Berny has a little homage to a Seiko 5 that has a mechaquartz movement and sapphire that is really good grab and go watch. I have a railway type Berny with the whole dial lumed that was good also. People bitch about the company name. I think the Seiko deal just has a logo.
Son Mahton
How can rank all these pedestrian companies without pedigree, and completely overlook Tandorio as the emperor of Chinese watch making? Their quality is not even a matter of doubt, but their true historical significance and current status as OEM for Rolex, Patek, Audry Mar's Piglet, and other Swiss con artist companies, sets it apart from the rest!
Mind you, their history got deliberately wiped, since Swiss-Italian Luigi Tandorio ended up as a crown witness against Goehring in 1945, because his small (so small, it was unknown outside Switzerland) Swiss watch company had made Flieger watches for the Luftwaffe, and he insisted on a permanent home in USA, which they gave to him. Mind you, to this day, there are rumours about how they managed to make so many watches in a 5 person shop, more than 18 thousand of them in 7 years, and there were a lot of trucks in the neighbourhood, that had watch deliveries fall off the back and were never found again, but that's a different story.
From there it went a wee sideways, because his son Johnny Tandorio, became "Don" Tandorio in Brooklyn (but that's a different story, knowaddameen?), and Don sort of made a family tradition out of going into witness protection in 1968 himself.
So Johnny "Don" Tandorio then settled in Hong Kong and took his daddy's watch factory tools with him, so Tandorio got established in China!
27 years later, the now senile "Don" Tandorio eventually took a scuba-dive in the Bay of Hong Kong without his air-tank and could not come up again, because the quick release on his concrete dive-boot weights got stuck, so his grand-kids took over the then still fake watch factory in 2005.
In 2027, not having other income after Don's witness protection money ran out, they quit making junk just as a cover, and switched to selling quality watches that fell off a ship straight from the Swiss Alps!
When those ran out, they used the money to buy Japanese second hand tools from an accidentally burned out factory in Shinshu. This is, when they came to the attention of the Chinese FBI, who arrested them all.
Since the Tandorio factory was however already established and had made some deals, they kept the name for the now state-owned company, to catch more crooks, and eventually ran it as a clean operation, producing high quality watches, that are now well respected.
These are the watches we can now buy on AliExpress as "Tandorio", run by good honest Chinese business people and watch makers. So, you see, there is a rich and interesting history here.
ADDENDUM:
Luigi Tandorio 3rd bought the company back in 2013 and has improved the quality of Tandorio.
It is all true, I swear! (I am NOT crossing my fingers behind my back!)
(This is what happens, when you allow your child to watch too much television!)
Say what now ?
When it comes to sugess the panda is copied after a Hamilton and the lightning bolt is copied after a Breitling
I have to say I really do like Boderry. I have the Admiral and just ordered their Landmaster.
I can't totally agree about Cronos (Lugyou factory) as I already own a brass model 62 mas for quite a while. It came like SM with tools and an extra wild leather armband in a flat black box. A lot of value for money. I could also order the same watch with some other brands on the dial too. And they had some other Seiko inspired models too if I remember correctly. Nowadays they have totally different models.
Pagani design is like Paulareis.
great list ... san martin is top notnh quality and the boderry voyager watch is a thing of beauty with great specs and value
May be just me but the aliexpress links are not working here in the UK
Thanks for letting me know. Which one specifically?
Bonjour,
Deux erreurs à mon avis: Proxima largement sous évalué car de bonne qualité et des design pas trop vus, et Boderry au contraire sur évalué car pauvre en choix et leur réputation repose sur un seul modèle. Absence de Baltany?
I always get a chuckle from the comments, you missed this brand and that brand. Before you know it you have 30 different brands. For the complainers, why don't you spend your own money and buy them all and make your own video?
THANK YOU 👍👍
Can we get ranking for some microbrands also?
I strongly disagree on your rankings. I think both Proxima and Chronos quality is better than you give them credit for. And, you missed even ranking some higher tier brands such as Baltany.
San Martin is the most popular, but getting boring with the NH3* movement, on he other hand I realy like some of Sugess models, they use different movements, Sea Gull and Seiko, have exelent reviews, both on youtube and from buyers.
That's why in their new model (that I'll be presenting very soon) they are using the Miyota 9015 😁
I think u didn’t rate the quality of steeldive / addiesdive out of 10 tho
5/10
Baltany!
I have a Baltany Dirty dozen ww2 homage w quartz that is good
The Proxima PX1703 is everything but an original design. It's a Zodiac Super Sea Wolf homage. By the way, I suggest next time you consider customer service as well. And what about Baltany?
Yes you are right, but they really put their own spin to it: different case, different bezel insert.
I was really considering to include Customer service but I believe all Chinese brands are equally lacking here, so there's no point in that
Merci !
Ridiculous assessment. You don't seem to understand what brand value means, also - why would anyone care about a brand catalogue size?
PS: you seem to underestimate San Martin quite a bit and they're slowly becoming a name of their own.
What about other AliExpress brands like Heimdallr, Hruodland, Tandorio, Cadisen, Ixdao & Ipose, Welly Merck and the other weird name brands like Feelnever, Dagger Axe, Berny, Dwayne Campbell, Sea Knight, etc. I’m sure there are many more.
The video is already 20 minutes long...
Watches for part 2 - I would add in Seestern.
Ix dao engineer is god tier.
I haven't tested them yet, they look great but they all seem to be homages or am I missing something?
@@Horologique They are homage, but the quality of the casework and bracelet is top notch. The engineer has the insides of the h link and the connecting pieces polished and brushed in a way that most brands simply ignore or dont care about. All the casework is flawless, no over or under brushing and super clean lines and transitions. The dial and hands and indices are similarly well done. I paid extra for sw200. Only fault is butterfly clasp, but same as original, not my preference. It may be a homage, but its 98% as good as the £10, 000 original for £280. Im not a big homage fan, but in this case, wow.
omg you put proxima and pagani next to itch other and sanmartin with bodery.... you sistem is not good at all, sorry man but you are so so wrong.....
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
It's very subjective
No seagull?
Sugess is Seagull.
I just finished getting of my AliExpress watches and will never go down that rabbit hole again. Not my cup of tea, but you guys have fun and enjoy your collections. 🥂
Be careful with Boderry. They have zero customer service.
I missed Seestern!
Boderry ripped off bertucci!
Nothing original.. still a good watch, though.
Your links are all broken as of Sep 2024.
😢To me, proxima might be higher, and forget merkur-pierre pauline has a pass, but forget about seestern is a true crime!!! 😂😂
Proxima is indeed better than 6/10 in the quality-finishing department.
Great job
There are other brands obviously as you know you would be there all week…
SM & WD are the best
WD - what"s that? not in the List
Proxima on the same tier as Pagani Design is just laughable. Their finishing is as good as San Martin and Cronos and way, way better than PD. Also, the use of the PT5000 is much to be preferred over the NH35 movements that SM cannot shake itself clear of.
my titanium BERNY sinn homage is great
show watches more next time, than yourself
Originality? I would opine Rolex has been skating on a theme that was established 70 years ago. Basically an extension of a theme realized by a design team that are no longer walking the face of the earth. And if you think of it there is not a lot you can do with a circle and a few sticks.
Yes I do celebrate when a manufacturer come up with a new take on a circle and a few sticks. I have dozens.
Catalog? San Martin has more offerings for sale than any three of the Big Swissies at any given moment if you exclude Ladies watches.
Lately I have been impressed by Watchdives. Their Blanc Pain fathoms watch is heads and shoulders better than Blanc Pains best selling fathoms offering on the market today. I would take my Watchdives into a tense situation any day.
I do wonder how Rolex would've scored on your scale.
And as an aside ...... there was a Swiss watch making firm that supplied the various Swiss manufacturers with a submersible case before the Oyster. As I recall they had a decagonal caseback, greased cork seals in the crown and crown tube and enough money to but the machinery to carve the newly formulated stainless steel into watches. If you went to a Hollywood gala event, were invited to a professional tennis tournament you would have seen them on the courts or in the crowd as often as a Rolex. I would love to see one of these Chinese manufacturers homage the stainless Patek 565 with its stepless case and decagonal caseback.
As always great video!
Thank you so much for your take! You are right about Rolex, innovation wise people give them way more credit than they deserve. Rolex lovers (90% of all big RUclips channels) will tell you it's because their models are so great they don't need to change them and that's true to6an extent, but we would love to see some real innovation, technically and in design
San martin overpriced by 70-80 $
Side note.. that world map on the wall is way off. Australia is a massive continent. India is also huge. They are shown so small on that map compared to Africa & the Americas
all maps are distorted like that in one way or another. australia is empty compared to europe ....it would be like having a giant cyprus on every world map
Of almost 7 million views I have gotten on both my channels you are the first one to comment on the map! I had never noticed the size difference, it might be a camera thing because IRL it's exactly like all maps
Addiesdive where? 🐒
6:13
I think all these brands offer great value that would cost well above what we pay and yes sometimes the quality control is bad but...
For some that have a watch addition there great ! 😂.
Totally! That's what they are there for!
Pagani Design is S tier lol. San Martin is too expensive , maybe C tier
Very dissapointing video. It's like making a tierlist of Swiss brands and include just 7 of them. Why make a tierlist if you know just 7 brands. And not even the most popular ones...
Stop say Son Marhten
Makes it sound more expensive 😂😂
If you're going to make fun of his English, at least get your grammar and spelling correct.
Why? His first language is French, like it or not, that's how French speaking people pronounce San Martin. SMH.
These watch manufacturers are just copying someone else's homework and and thing "original" is just something they cobbled together from other watch designs.
None of these brands should go higher than the "B" Tier.