Acid as penetrating oil for stuck frozen bolts - Easy rust removal action
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2018
- Acid is explained as the most efficient and best penetrating oil for removing rusty bolts that are stuck and impossible to open.
The use of muriatic acid is shown on a railway bolt nut that has been in the ground for 20 years, and completely rusted together. Muriatic acid is also known as hydrochloric acid.
Only 60 minutes is required to completely remove all rust even down in the threads by immersing the bolt with the stuck nut in the acidic solution.
Muriatic acid or hydrocholoric acid is a common chemical sold in almost every hardware store or paint store, and is also the acid in the human stomach. Some people call it the rust acid.
WD40 and other penetrating fluids (oils) are much inferior and do dissolve rust to an extent they open the threads of rusted bolts.
A solution of acid may be used in many applications where bolts are stuck, enabling more efficient and simple method than soaking in penetrating oil.
Muriatic or hydrocholoric acid is a strong acid and caution needs to be taken to avoid burn wounds or other injuries. Full safety outfit is needed. 
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Cool, now to find a jar big enough to fit my entire motorcycle in
Use Plasticine or anything that is plastic or «clayish» to encircle the bolt. Them pour the acid; you gig will hold the acid in place. Then wait. Then remove the bolt. Or not...
ooh i was just thinking of how to contain the fluid around a bolt with a plastic bag or something, clay would be awesome
Fill a small pool full of it 🤣
Thanks for placing that bolt in the ground 20 years ago just to make this experiment!
What I discovered during my restoration project is that the majority of bolt-nut junctions that were a subjected to severe corrosion and seizure are actually quite untouched the deeper the threads go. The main crust that prevents you to unscrew it is only 1-2mm in thread length. Which in itself is astonishing, considering that this amount of corrosion is already enough for you to sheer off the bolt head in attempt to unscrew it without any preliminary prep like heating or using penetrating oil.
Many thanks for your smooth, calm and well-paced Scientific delivery. I'm tired of presenters who talk at 200mph so that I have to switch to sub-titles only to find that they're mainly talking self-aggrandizing guff.
You are on the ball Ken. I have used muriatic acid to clean water passages in plastic molds, and rusty engine blocks that did not have anti freeze used. It will remove both rust, and calcium from hard water. As you have stated, you need fresh air and personal protective equipment.
This is a very nice presentation.
Wonderfully done and explained in detail the entire process.
after the rust has been removed from the item...the remaining solution (Ferric Chloride) can be used to process printed circuit boards...removing copper from printed circuit boards etc, (Ferric Chloride + Copper = Copper Chloride + Ferric oxide) and I prefer electrolysis for rust removal as the acid does remove Iron atoms,
Very cool, thanks!
very impressed.
I was curious about this... thx
Cool. I use white vinegar which prevents me from accidentally over doing it (and much safer). It works great. I have a vintage Thorsen 1/2in drive ratchet soaking right now. The selector switch and the spring loaded ball detent on it are frozen. Also, I could watch the bubbles all day.
Actually rust just dissolves quietly with zero bubbles. The bubbles you see are actually from the HCl chipping away at and corroding the good / non-rusted parts of the metal.
wonderful
Hi Ken, have you tried this on typical bolts from say the underbody of a car or exhaust manifold? I imagine the use of a plastic dropper or syringe or brush would be best. Interested in your results. Seems and obvious solution instead of the typical HEAT HAMMER BREAK
Hi bro I have old 2 stroke bike muffler stuck inside silencer how to remove the muffer without damage it
Could this work if done under car on an exhaust bolt...or does it have to be soaked in the solution like in the video?
Down the rabbit hole of rust mitigation on an auto restoration. So you think this method would work for dissolving the rust between an axle spline and wheel hub? My electrolysis tank took care of nearly all of the surface rust, but I don’t think it’s getting in between the splines.
Soaking in white vinegar for several days can also help.
What concentration is the HCL, about 20%?
What's the percentage of the acid he used
It is a fun and interesting experiment but in practical real-world use for those of us that do regularly need to 'unstick' things, not too useful. The underside of a car, for example, is not going to fit into a beaker. Hydrochloric acid also reacts directly with Iron so you have material loss beyond the Iron Oxide. A good regular use for this is when people do electroplating. It works well to do a quick bath in HCl to lightly etch the surface to promote bonding and to ensure there are no more contaminates like Iron Oxide. There are good uses for HCl in rust removal but understanding the limitations and downsides is very important. I love chemistry and enjoy your videos. I would like to hear you talk more about the risks and downsides to the method (e.g. base material loss during this process).
You are completely correct and thank for your comment. There is however a person on RUclips that places an entire car in a acid bath for rust removal. I am soon return to the acid work and will bring more on the down sides . Thx for comment .
You could make a spray. I've used citric acid like that andcombined it with wire brush.
@@eedom69 Yes but its hard to get an application of the chemical that will stay in contact with the surface sufficiently to penetrate and accomplish anything.
@@darkerbinding6933 Yep. I am trying some tissues packed around the area now sprayed down with solution.
Even
While it is scientific indeed but of not much practical use. How do we apply acid to a rusted nut on a car? If we can put it in a container, we might use vinegar to do the same job but much less dangerous.
Thumbs up Ken Sweden! This sounds like a great tip and I will surely give it a try. Do you think this would have been successful had there been no grease used on the fastener 20yrs ago?
All the best from OZ,
Ben
+Machete Bushcraft Australia yes I think so, I had almost given up when it fell apart but when it did I looked closer and sure enough the acid eat all the rust, and would had done so also down in the thread. You would have lost some rusted away thread. Thanks f comment and all the best 👍
Be sure to strip the metal of oil, grease, paint, etc. Muriatic acid will cling to any oil film, leaving a thin film of Muriatic acid behind. Metal needs to be totally bare
Great video. Do anyone know if I have to neutralize OSPHO ( phosphoric acid) after using it on the car chassis before I paint? not concern about paint adhesion but acid eating away the metal longterm.
Sorry late reply, there is no need for neutralizing apart from flushing it with water because there is nothing left behind. The phosphorus part of the acid is bonded to the metal. However, it is important to really let it all dry up properly before painting.
Rust is Goethite and you can dissolve Goethite with Oxalic Acid. I wonder how well that would work for a rusted bolt? It might be overboard compared to the HCL. But using HCL does seem like it could help someone. Good video!
The benefit of HCl is that iron chlorides are highly soluble in water, so the rust dissolves more quickly.
Oxalic acid is great for rust removal and also less aggressive than hydrochloric acid.
Hi Ken. I use HCl acid for many rust removal jobs. You will have noticed that further rusting occurs VERY quickly after you clean the acid off with water. To stop this, it is better to use PHOSPHORIC acid afterwards. This creates a fairly good protective phosphate coating which wards off rust. It is better to rapidly dry with hot air as wiping the rinsing water off removes some of the phosphate coating too. By the way, does it have to be 50% HCL solution or can stronger concentrations be used to speed the process up?... Thanks
50% is a 50/50 diluted solution of concentrated HCl. HCl- hydrochloric acid can only be 37% maximum mixed with 100-37=63 % water. This is because 100% HCl is a gas. Good input in the phosphoric acid. Thanks!
@@Ken_Sweden Thanks Ken for explaining the HCl acid strengths. Just to add, I phosphated a steel sheet item about 4 years ago and it was left in a dampish garage. The steel, to this day, remains un-rusted with a light grey steel colour apart from where there was an area that I left just bare metal which has now become very rusty and brown. As far as I know, most cars are dipped in Phosphoric Acid as the first stage before being primed and painted. It certainly must be worth doing.
you could also heat it up hot and cool it quick with water it will come rite a part
Is there a way to stop the part rusting almost as soon as you remove it from the HCI?
Yes there are complex binders, small molecules that can be added as a chemical to the acid solution so that when all the rust is gone the surface is sealed with these chemicals that only can react with bare iron metal. I will make a video on these when I have searched it better.
@@Ken_Sweden That would be great, thank you!
I have old backing plates for a dump truck and the brake adjusters are frozen. Would dripping the mixture onto the threads be effective as long as I kept them wet, or would they need to be submerged in the 50% mixture (50% acid to 50% water)? It would require 25 gallons at least to submerge them. In Georgia, muriatic acid is sold 31.45% pure. Is that the same as you used, or would it be better to drip this acid undiluted on the parts? If submerged, could you use the electrolysis method with muriatic acid mixture?
+Philicia Lund the exact concentration has no relevance so you’d be fine with the one you have. Dripping it on will have an effect and may unfreeze them. Good luck!
@@Ken_Sweden Thank you so much for your reply. I am probably going to use a diluted muriatic acid solution in water and use electrolysis if you think that would work.
@@Ken_Sweden I am sorry I didn't make myself clear. In an electrolysis bath, would muriatic acid work? If so, what other components and in what ratio would you recommend to a gallon of water? The parts are so big that I have put them in a 35 gallon plastic trash can. I am ready to start cleaning them. Thank you for your advice.
Philicia Lund ok i see, you need to know that you are going to generate chlorine gas on your positive electrode. Chlorine gas is poisonous and should not be breathed. Extra safety needs to be considered and I would not run electrolysis in muriatic acid solutions unless very very diluted. Even with a very diluted muriatic acid solution, the chlorine ions will be very corrosive on your counter electrode, rapidly eroding it. The concentration, if using it should be tested out from lower end side, it’s very reactive. Acetic acid that I recommend from safety perspective in my other video where I show acid and electrolysis, is thousands of times less reactive. Watch out. A cup in a gallon will be very reactive, that’s why you don’t need the electrics involved.
I just erased my comment. Yeah, acid is going to dissolve an oxide, but give it some thought as to why you may not want this?
would this work to dissolve the rust scale that has fallen to the bottom of an air compressor tank without damaging the pressure vessel?
Difficult to answer but I’m sure you know diving tanks are pressure tested on regular basis to ensure safety . Good luck
@@Ken_Sweden Thank you for responding, are you saying acid is used inside of diving air tanks?
@@keith7689 I think Ken thought you were referring to a diving tank and so concerned about your safety and I think you were referring to an tools air compressor tank. lol
I've been trying to think of ways to get a rusted up sheared off bolt out. I had this thought of the acid getting into the threads. Glad to see someone actually tried it already. Wonder why no one else is doing this. Oh and was that concentrated acid you put in?
Old Uncle Silas everybody is already doing this, nothing new here. Old technology every kid in high school chemistry has learned. The acid was 35 baume to start. Industry uses it to descale metal, commonly referred to as pickling the metal.
In the video he said it is a 50-50 % solution.
It is a 50-50% solution.
@@mariosantizo4099 But the Muriatic acid comes in strenghts too so waht concentation it was was not clarified!
My question is, if you were to spray solution of muratic acid on a rusty car chassis, would that dissolve the rust better than phosphoric acid ? Muratic acid might be better when the item is dunked in it but is it best when just sprayed on ? Or does it evaporate and not do the job ? Plus, does phosphoric acid do a better job at preventing rust from coming back ? Should either be washed off after a period of time or should they be left on ?
Yes Muriatic will dissolve it better, faster and more effectively. Nothing will beat Muriatic in this regards. Neither one of them will effectively prevent the rust from coming back although the phosphoric acid will make the surface black and as it dries up and this porous black surface of iron phosphate is a reasonably good base for applying a paint. Evaporation is the same for the two, it’s mostly water so you won’t notice any difference. At the end of a spray like mentioned it’s best to spray if off with water, or even better water with baking soda in it, because that will minimize the effect of acid remains on the chassis. The worst acid remains will always be from the Muriatic because it is the most effective to get reactions going both in terms of dissolving rust and leaving remains that initiate new rust. It’s because of the reactive nature of the chloride ions that it contains.
@@Ken_Sweden There is a product called "Rustmort" sold in autobody supply stores which they use to spray inside body panels and I believe they do not recommend washing it off prior to paint. I think it is a phosphoric acid. I have also purchased phosphoric acid drain opener which works well to dissolve mineral scale in a toilet bowl as well as clear the drain. Both phosphoric acid and muriatic acid require good ventilation and significant dilution . I'm just wondering why the autobody product contains phosphoric acid and not muriatic acid. Any idea ?
J M yes, it’s because of the chloride ions in the Muriatic acid. They don’t want it. Remains makes rust come back faster.
@@Ken_Sweden So when using muriatic acid , it requires rinsing and does not leave a protective compound on the surface but when using phosphoric acid , it does ? Also, is it possible that the chlorine turns into a gas quickly and leaves the surface, whereas the phosphoric acid remains for a long time doing the job , just more slowly ?
J M no the chlorine won’t go off as gas. It is to reactive in its form in the acid so it will react with iron to iron chloride salt that to some extent deposit on the surface of the iron part. Yes the phosphoric acid will do the job more slowly.
why use 50/50 mix of water and acid? why not just use straight acid would it not be better
+Ian Barlow you won’t see much difference in action in a video. Also, you end up with a major problem for the muriatic acid (hydrochloric), which is its fumes. Only opening the bottle smells so much, and sticks in your eyes, that if you get close it’s practically almost impossible to work. The extra strength is neither motivated because the 50% water added helps in transporting the dissolved rust and dirt away so that the acid can access all grooves. One could go 60-70 but for my own experiments I would say better go 30% acid since it’s safer, you won’t see any difference in the results, and it will only take maybe 10 min instead of 8.
Nå skal den reimskiva av den snøfreseren🎉😊
Using electrolysis at the same time could speed up the process
What is the tool,very interesting,never saw one quite like it
Which one?
@@Ken_Sweden I'm sure he's referring to the vise grip pipe wrench hybrid thing you loosened the nut with. I've never seen anything like it either, here in the states.
its called a pickle bath
Does it work by simply pouring it?
I think not, because the nitrogen will just bounce off the surface
Sooo ... the acid solution doesn’t attack the paint like the rust?? Also... I think I need that pipe wrench... information please
Well, most old paints are resistible to attack this short exposure although they are not as resistible as the polyethylene cord. That cord is actually almost impossible to dissolve and burning is the method for it’s destruction. Biodegradable or waterborne paints sold today wouldn’t do the acid more than seconds. Thanks for comment. The pipe wrench was overkill, I know, but I think they actually used and even bigger wrench when they mounted it along the railway tracks.
Seems to be a vintage Kongsberg pipe wrench, similar to Bahco but made in Norway. You'll find them at any flea market around Scandinavia.
I found the Bahco from the usual scumbags ... fleebay. Thanks for the info 👌.automotive style paint is pretty tough in the solution. I’m about to see how 12 hours works out.
It's an old Kongsberg as Knut Skoglund noticed. About getting the tough paint off by dissolution, acids won't do much. I just had a blaster cabinet installed after numerous attempt to clean off paint with the harshest Stoddard solvents. From all attempts I can safely say that the only way is to use the paint strippers containing chlorinated solvents. These solvents are not for sale in many countries because of their carcinogenic properties related to long exposures, but they are some form of them in the paint strippers and they make the difference between day and night. I used the Nitro Mors and it removes all paint, no problem, but it takes a while. However, after 2-3 applications, you can just flush it off by water since they mix well with water. They are nasty as sold in hardware stores so thick rubber gloves is needed since they also reacts with the rubbers + breathing mask.
Knut Skoglund r
I like using the Molasses Bath method - no dangerous acid to mess with, just supermarket bought molasses/black treacle
Use slightly hot water
That wd40 is useless as a penetrating fluid.
I almost get sleep when hearing your talk in the video, slow enough. although, a good job.
Xinfeng Wei Thanks for your comment. It’s on purpose to highlight how smooth and easy you can remove it all. Imagine how quite and calm this process is compared to if you ask a mechanic to pull off this bolt. They would try and try with impact wrench and then heat, heat and impact wrench.... working at 120 dB
Very smooth voice if you ask me 😎
Heat the nut red. - Squirt it with water, heat it lightly again and melt bees wax into the thread. SLOWLY.. Do not get it hot enough to catch the wax on fire. Take your time - Now pt it back in the vice and take it apart,,,,,then I think I'd pick Evaporust to finish the job. ,,,,, BTW, Industrial Electrical/Millwright contractor here that has worked in the most corrosive environments in the country,,,,,and the next time bees wax fails us will be the first time bees wax failed us,,,,,,and I'm talking over 50 years and nuts up to 36" diameter. (That one took 82 continuous hours to get off
So I'ma gonna dip the whole car into this solution to remove some rusty bolts ☺️
been using muriatic acid for years . rules …. out side.... respirator….rubber gloves , works great , just use your head . penetrating oils are a total waste of time ;there are a number of good videos here proving this . look for yourself .
Agree whole heartedly all penetration oils are snake oil. WD40, Kano, PB Blaster, Plus Gas, etc etc!
Wonder if Coke would do the same.
This is all well and fine but in reality you are not ging to be able to immerse a fastner espcially one underneath a car body!
Good tip, but it does not have to be over 15 minutes long. Work on the delivery also, you are putting us to sleep. Otherwise, good.
+Larry A slowly improving. Thx.
The amount ir required?? Example 1 litre of muriatic acid and 1 litre of water??just like that??
#noob
I d love to know it too
Sir , speed up and cut your video.
Quite your Jibba Jabba essentially!