The US Navy's Smartest Idea of WW2
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
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The vessels USS Wolverine, Sable, and Wilmette served the Sailors who would then go out to serve our nation. During the early stages of WWII, Commander Richard F. Whitehead proposed the idea of retrofitting and modifying Great Lakes luxury cruise ships into aircraft carriers for naval training purposes.
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FINALLY!!!!
No battle stars, but pulled her weight and made navy pilots that could do the job needed. A wonderful piece of history.
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Another benefit of these trainer carriers was that a nearby aircraft repair facility received a useful amount of aircraft repair work to help train crews for that particular and vital operation.
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Captain R. F. Whitehead was my grandfather's brother. I am very proud of his contribution to our victory in WW2.
Thank you to him for his service! From what I read he seemed like a great man!
@@HiddenHistoryYT He served from 1912 to 1956 and never boasted of his many accomplishments. He is certainly an example to follow.
Thank you and your grandfathers brother for your service.
🙏🇺🇸💪
This story is a stunning example of ingenuity in the face of adversity. Even more remarkable is how fast the Navy created its freshwater flattops and how hard they worked them. Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamato had an appreciation for America's industrial potential but I think even he would have been shocked by this program if he knew about it.
The Japanese Navy did some incredible conversions of merchant ships and warships to carriers after losing much of Kido Butai at Midway. Necessity is the mother of invention.
@@nkgoodal those conversions were not worth much; the battleship hybrids could only operate sea planes and the liner conversions were too slow to operate with the fleet carriers and were not very good in any way. Not sure where you got your misinformation but do not go there again
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@@gruntforever7437 - I have a history degree, and I also served (20+ years). I will certainly "go there again". Fleet carrier wise, the Shinano was a decent conversion that sank on its first major voyage by the USS Archerfish. The liner conversions were scows, but it's still fairly impressive that the IJN could sail out nine aircraft carriers at the Battle of the Philippine Seal (just about two years after Midway). The battleship conversions (Ise class) were not great conversions. However, they could launch (but not land) conventional carrier Ari raft like the Judy dive bomber. The Judy's were expected to land on another aircraft carrier, if they survived their attack. These weren't great ships, but they were completed in less than year. I view these as "fairly incredible” work by the IJN to complete hasty conversions to try to get air power in the fleet. The US did not have a monopoly on creativity or ingenuity in that regard. However, our efforts were generally more successful. The US CVLs (Princeton class) were exceptional conversions. I would argue that the CVEs (T2 and C3 conversions) were not exceptional carriers and had the simple advantage of "being available" when they were needed. That said, they did very good work in the Atlantic and Pacific.
@@gruntforever7437 - I have a history degree and served 20+ years, so I am going to "go there again" because I am not spreading misinformation. "Incredible" means a lot of different things. My originally short comment was to entice readers to look up the topic, rather than provide a complete summary. I assert that the Japanese Navy successfully completed converted aircraft carriers and largely succeeded - even if the ships were scows (slow and unwieldy). Here's my reasoning: The Japanese completed enough ships that the lack aircrew training was more decisive than the lack of aircraft or flight decks. As far as the ships, the conversions showed great creativity, resourcefulness, and an ability to quickly complete them in the 1942-1944 timeframe. IJN Shinano would have been a very capable carrier (72,000 ton conversion based on a Yamato class hull), but was sunk on its' first voyage by the submarine USS Archerfish. The Ise class were hasty, not very good conversions of old battleships with a "flight deck" and catapults. They were not limited to seaplanes, but could launch Judy dive bombers. The original thinking was that the Judys could land on an accompanying carrier after completing an attack. Dubious thinking, but the ships were completed in less than a year. The merchant & support ship conversions (too many to list) were not great, but the IJN did convert them quickly and effectively. The Japanese Navy had nine carriers at the Battle of Phillippine Sea in 1944, which is fairly impressive and a testament to their ingenuity at completing these ships. The larger concern with the Japanese Navy carrier force in 1943-44 was lack of trained, qualified aircrew on those ships. I would argue that the US CVLs (Independence) were the best conversions of the war, being based on the superb Cleveland light cruisers. The US CVEs were converted from C3 and T2 merchant ships and were slow, limited in the number and type of aircraft they could carry. Their sterling quality was their quick build time and ability to support slow amphibious and convoy operations.
Those Naval officers deserved a special citation for their very useful idea.
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What was the Idea?
@@kevinoshea9125 did you watch the video...?
A close second was the idea to send chief mechanics to work in aircraft factories where they learned the inner secrets of the planes they would be servicing. They built the planes and then went with them to islands on the front lines.
Thanks for that nugget. 👍🍻🇺🇦
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During the early days of H/P, they required design engineers to work in manufacturing for one year before doing any design work.
My Dad got in the navy in 1943 and recieved mechanic training. Got the top scores in every mechanic class he was in.
He could fix all of those hellcats and avengers!
I still have his two aircraft mechanic notebooks.
rconger. Many American men grew up repairing motor vehicles and farm equipment. They were a ready source for military aircraft operations. The Japanese did not have this same tradition. They were mostly using animals for farming and practically no one owned a car. Jap mechanics were specially trained and hard to replace.
Very cool and thank you to him for his service! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
I learned about the USS Wolverine and Sable in 1994, where an SBD Dauntless dive bomber had been recovered from Lake Michigan for restoration at the Kalamazoo Air Zoo museum in Michigan. They did a beautiful job, and it's on display today.
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There is a Wildcat fighter in Chicago O’Hare. Of course Medal of Honor winner Edward “Butch” O’Hare mostly flew Wildcats. The Terminal 2 Wildcat at ORD was a salvaged from Lake Michigan. The reclaimed Navy fighters & bombers were hardly in pristine condition but they had fared far better in the cold freshwater Of Lake Michigan than those found in the salt water Pacific.
I learned about these two ships when I visited the Naval Air Museum at NAS Pensacola in the early 2000's. A real surprise to me at that time as I had been on active duty in naval aviation in the late 1950's. Another interesting fact is the number of navy aircraft that are sunk in Lake Michigan. They crashed during air operations on the two carriers. Several have been recovered but a lot are still in the lake.🙂🙂
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Pensacola native who went through Navy flight training in Pensacola in 1970-71. I don't recall EVER hearing this bit of very important and significant Navy history. Glad that it happened and much appreciation to all involved.
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This is an amazing story! A paddle wheel aircraft carrier qualifying over 12,000 naval aviators and even more deck crew personnel without ever seeing the ocean. I only learned about the Wolverine in the past year and I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable about US WWll history.
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I learned about them when I saw a photo of one tied up in Port Colborne, Ontario!
Always wondered how we managed to train all those carrier pilots, now I know. Thanks. Just another example of American exceptionalism displayed by the greatest generation.
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I knew these ships existed, but you fleshed out the details I was unaware.
Great job!
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I grew up in Wyandotte where the Wolverine was built. Almost no one knows that there were once ship yards on the south end. Now their are condos and a McDonalds on the site.
Also, for Detroit area locals, the Bob-Lo boat Columbia was built there too.
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USS Wolverine; great name! 😎
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Excellent! You have a new subscriber. You actually have footage that matches the story unlike a lot of the other history sites.
I am so with you on my dislike (disgust, actually) of tangential filler footage. I usually comment to those channels that I am adding them to my do not recommend list for that reason, and follow through. Winnowing out the chafe regularly leaves only the grain.
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Glad you enjoyed it!
Ya gotta wonder how many warbirds are sitting on the bottom of the great lakes due to mishaps.
I kind of remember a TV show about these ships some years ago. I think they said the number of aircraft in Lake Michigan is unknown because of the way the Navy kept records. One of these, a Douglas SBD Dauntless, was found and recovered. Last I heard, it was being restored. Check the Air Zoo in Kalamazoo.
@@wdtaut5650I’ve been reading about some fantastic things being done over there in North America regarding restoration of all sorts of #WW2 crafts and vehicles. 👍☘️
I believe the number was just under 200. That’s a reasonable estimate based upon Navy logs.
I think I heard 158 if I'm remembering correctly?
Thanks guys.
Great Lakes Naval Training Base was and is still where sailors boot camp is located north of Chicago.
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"Dauntless Hell Divers" is a fascinating memoir of a WW2 dive bomber pilot. He started his training around Nov 1941 and his first deployment was at the Battle of the Coral Sea, May 1942, where he also experienced his carrier qualification! Qualified, then into battle!
I assume it’s worth purchasing?
I recall if my memory serves me George Bush SR and former POTUS I once saw a picture of him being fished out of the Pacific by a submarine crew. He and a crewmate were shot down and bailed out of their dive bomber. Bush survived, his crewmate didn't make it and perished
I never knew about these -- but always sort of wondered how we brought so many carrier pilots up to speed so quickly.
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The pickett ships was one of the best ideas also during the pacific war.Thanks HIDDEN HISTORY.
Piquet
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@@HiddenHistoryYT it is not spelled pickett
This is the first time I heard about these two ships. Thank you for the real history lesson.
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That flight deck looked a very dangerous place.
Indeed! There aren't many work places more dangerous than a flight deck! Organisation and discipline must be at their finest!
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" _They also serve who only stand and wait_ " - John Milton. (Not quite on point, but it does describe those whose roles were not on the front line.)
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My feeling was the "escort carrier" was the greatest decision. While not as efficient as a fleet carrier, it gave small task forces and merchant convoys badly needed air defense and submarine hunting options... especially is areas where land based aircraft could not reach. Escorts were faster to build, did not require so many eggs in one basket, and greatly improved supplies and equipment getting to Europe and Russia.
Yep! Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
Was a "jeep carrier" the same thing as an escort carrier? If not, what was it?
The aircraft carriers that you speak of were supposed to be in the harbor but ironically, they were delayed due to a storm.
I didn't know about these ships. Thanks.
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The story of how this country geared up to win this war is astounding, almost incredible. How any enemy could imagine victory against us is beyond me.
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Excellent history lesson!
With the color footage one can see the Navy had already figured out the top deck crews needed color coded clothing to distinguish the various jobs.
Good stuff!
Yep, glad you enjoyed it! Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
I always wondered where and how the aircraft carrier crews were trained. Thanks for the video and the very interesting video.
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If you've never skied before, start on a "bunny" slope. By extension of principle, don't learn to land your plane on a deck that might be dodging torpedoes.
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Why Yamamoto knew Japan would lose in the long run. America had industrial resources that could never be eliminated.
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I love learning about stuff. This is great, I've never heard it before. Thank you!
A great example of n cesspit y being the mother of invention.
As a retired Navy officer who had conducted many UNREPs as First Lieutenant on an AOE in the far northern Pacific battling icy decks and freezing equipment, I was especially impressed with the continued carrier operations in the very cold temperatures described in the story.
The continued influx of trained pilots was something that the IJN could only dream of, and was a huge factor in our ultimate victory.
Wolverine and her half sister are really interesting ships, and I’m glad I first heard of them during my visit to Lake Eire
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That was brilliant. Instant happy sub:) Have been fascinated with WWII history all of my life (53 now), this was the first time I can recall hearing of the Wolverine & Sable.
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@@HiddenHistoryYT I never get tired of listening to WW2 stories, even if I've heard it dozens of times already, but it is a REAL treat to hear an amazing new story. Those men serving on those ships are just as much heroes as those storming or flying over the beaches of Normandy or Iwo Jima. There is a book series called 'Hidden Histories' (usually some specific European city) that I have adored for many years. Love this kind of stuff. Thank you for your hard work and excellent video production.
Very interesting subject. Thank you for posting!
often wondered how aircraft were recovered from the nose down /tail high position after a mishap this showed it beautifully. Block and tackle on the propeller spinner and away you go, easy.
That was a great piece of lesser known history! Thank you! 👍😁😎
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Wow! Great video! Thanks for the history lesson…I’m ex-Navy and I had no idea about these ships. Truly ingenious of those men…😮
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Really informative!
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Dad served on the Sable in 44. Arresting gear crew. After his training there he transferred to the Bennington and finished the war on the Bon Homme Richard.
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Never heard of this ships! Thanks for the video!
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Very interesting, new info for me. Thanks
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Completely new info to me. Outstanding job. ***** 5 stars.
At the Palm Springs Air Museum the only plane on display that was not flown there is an F4F that was recovered off Chicago. The pilots flight jacket and helmet etc was donated or loaned to that museum
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Fascinating. Never heard about this. Well done!
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I knew about this but hadn't thought of it in ages.
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You mentioned the mayor of chicago.He was killed during a flight promotion by the WACO glider.They were trying to sell war bonds at the chicago stadium.The best glider pilot was putting on a display with the mayor on board showing everyone how safe it was.Well,the glider was in a dive when a wing ripped off and killed everyone on board.An investagation insued,and it was discovered that a worker at a texas plant had not been flushing the rivets.Problem solved,but with a high coasts.
The History Guy covered that story a few years ago
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The USN had seven aircraft carriers at the beginning of WW2, not eight. The USS Langley (CV-1) was no longer an aircraft carrier, she was AV-3 a seaplane tender. She had been converted in the late 30s to this role, and did not have a full flight deck to be able to launch planes from.
She was scuttled after being heavily damaged by a Japanese air attack while transporting fighters to the island of Java from Australia. The planes were stored on what was left of her flight deck to be taken off as they had been put on, by crane.
Besides this small slip I enjoyed your take on these very important training ships.
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They earned their keep. Meaning they were more valuable than their cost.
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These two Great Lakes takeoff & landing training carriers were complete American ingenuity, intellect, & genius. These two training carriers helped to ensure that the US Navy had the greatest number of pilots best trained in inherently dangerous carrier operations. You can add to this, the WWII Pacific Fleet's use of two operational senior staffs, where one staff was on active operations, while the other staff planned & prepared for the next operation. This way, the US Pacific Fleet was able to be used & operated with maximum useage with the smallest amount of downtime. Thank you America for producing capable people of devising & for providing the material resources required to defeat the Axis in WWII. Richard 👍👆👍😐
498 landing in 531minutes. Barely over a landing per minutes.. just wow!
Truly incredible! Thanks for watching and have a great weekend :)
Kudos to the flight crews too. Getting planes off and on the planes quickly is *mission critical*.
This is so cool, a piece of WW2 history I was totally ignorant of, what a great idea, train pilots and carrier crew on mockups in the great lakes, the Japanese never had a chance, well done greatest generation! bravo!
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Arguably the most important Allied ship of WW2.
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Another superb piece and many thanks. 🏴🎚️📚
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Look up the Naval officer Cdr Frank Spig weed . He had a good carrier idea about carriers too.
John Wayne played him in the movie Wings of Eagles .
Will do, thanks!
I am not American, so I didn't know about those two ships.
I am glad to have learned something most interesting today!
Thank you for that video!
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Excellent video
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Very good. Thanks
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One small point, ihp stands for indicated, not independent, horsepower. This was the steam reciprocating engine equivalent of shp, shaft horsepower used for a steam turbine.
Great video
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Great story!
great footage
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8:41)A cohort was a Roman Army unit of around 300 men. Similar to an US Army Infantry Battalion.
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Outstanding!
I am from Chicago and I never knew that this excellent method of training Navel personnel was such an extensive operation.
Thanks for sharing your research and creating a videographic masterpiece.
🙈🙉🙊 😎 🇺🇸
Greatly appreciate the kind words! Thanks for watching and have a fantastic week :)
Even though they were unarmed, there was no successful attacks from the North. They did their job well.
Awesome story!
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I'm sad to hear that both of them were scrapped post-war.
I would have thought one of them would be turned into a museum ship.
But I guess that only goes to combatants.
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That was wonderful. Thanks
Cracking channel I think. 👍
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Thank you Dave!
The Navy bought her in September, before the Pearl Harbor attack. The Navy was thinking ahead.
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Fascinating
Darn, that ending left me hanging. I wanted to know how they dealt with the damaged airplane. I'm not sure as they had the repair facilities onboard, and I'm not sure if they could store it. Did they just push it over the side?
A truly brilliant idea!
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Loosing the battleships forced the navy to adopt air power rather than concentrate on rebuilding gun platform for strategy and tactics.
Yes, they actually did the American Navy a service. They say Admirals are always fighting the previous war (the WWI battleship war). With the battleships gone, this gave them a chance to build a new, more modern, navy.
The war might have ended very differently if the American carriers had been in Pearl Habor when the Japanese attacked. It would make an interesting alternative-history movie.
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What an interesting video.
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Simple ; smart and budget wise.
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Interesting!
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wonder if they cut the engines during take off and landing so that black smoke from the smokestacks did not obscure pilot vision
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Both of my parents worked on the SS Greater Buffalo, I still have their seaman booklets.
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What a brilliant idea👍
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FDR had no idea?! Aircraft Carriers are big targets, from a sub sailor. We always got them in war games in the 80s.
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For scale that training carrier was 7,000 tons displacement. Nimitz Class displace 100,000 tons. Beyond brilliant planning though.
Crazy! Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
Did the narration mean by “negotiations to acquire” the ship that it was requisitioned for war purposes or did the owners get paid for it?, I ask because the British ministry of war requisitioned all kinds of infrastructure and land, which it don’t believe they adequately paid compensation for and not until after the war, I was wondering if the USA, or any countries involved in the war, had a better track record of providing compensation to the people who originally owned the land etc?.
An absolutely fascinating and informative piece of history that I had never heard about before, I think the two officers who came up with the concept were geniusis and deserved a medal, however I do have a couple questions about this, a) Because the ships had a relatively slow speed how did the pilots compensate for the slower wind speed over the deck on takeoff? and (b) with the flight deck only being a fraction of the height above water that the carriers had how did that affect the potential for an aircraft to hit the water and the pilot/crew surviving?.
If anyone could enlighten me to the answers to my questions I would be very grateful. Thank you so much for posting this video, very enlightening and informative narration, thanks again.
GREAT unsung hero's operating in safe waters. Glenco was an air station that later became a victim of bean counters Robert Mcnamaria said why are we a land lord and sold off most of the land surrounding the air-station making it very limited in operation with safe land area around it. It was later closed because of that. what people don't understand. An Airfield needs safe airspace around it.
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Very interesting. I grew up in Northfield, Ill. in the 70’s. Just a few miles from Glenview NAS. It was an integral part of daily life as a kid. The sounds and planes flying around. We use to go there on Sundays (Waukegan Rd.) to watch them return from weekend training missions in Wisconsin. I physically watch a British v-wing bomber called the Vulcan crash while playing golf in the father son tournament at our country club. We would go there for field trips, but what kid was listening to our guide tell the history of the place with all those cool planes around. Not this kid anyway. Glenview NAS has long since been torn down. Now its residential neighborhoods, and shopping malls. The garbage dump where the Vulcan crashed filled up, closed and is now golf course, and the section of Waukegan Rd we would watch them land is a dead end and no longer exists. I never understood why there was a Navy airbase base there, Nor why navy pier was called as such. Now I do as a 57 year old adult watching a youtube video on my phone. Times sure have changed.
Very very cool, thanks for sharing! Appreciate you watching and have a great week :)
Very creative of the US Navy.
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they could even train carrier officers on command tactics and strategy.
Yep!
I have another question: How many sailors and pilots were killed while training for carrier operations? Flying is very hazardous and combining aircraft operations and trainees certainly increased the hazards. Thanks for the video.
How did they do take-offs without catapults?
That, is pretty cool.
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Learn something new everyday!
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I find it strange that intentions of war, the US entire Pacific fleet of battleships and heavy cruisers are all docked in Pearl Harbor side-by-side on December 7, 1941. Understanding the future of Maritime warfare would be carrier power. All four were out to sea...
There were two camps in the US Navy during the 1930s - the Battleship Men and the Carrier Men. Each group thought their preferred ship would dominate warfare in the future. December 7, 1941 settled the debate (and a further nail was driven in by the sinking of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse two days later.)
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They were different battle groups and the carriers were still working up new aircraft.
Neat! I heard about this and that there are many planes at the bottom of Lake Michigan as a result of failed attempts. I grew up in Wyandotte. It's pronounced "wine" + "dot" with no "an" in the middle.
This was the difference between the Allies and the Axis powers. The training the pilots and crews got before they were deployed. The Japanese and to a big extent The Germans did not give their new recruits a lot of training. They were then left in combat until they died or the war ended. The Allies however brought their aces back home and made them instructors, making sure the next wave of recruits was well prepared for battle. This is why the aces of WW2 with the most kills are all German mostly. Its not that the allied pilots were inferior, they were just rotated out of combat to teach the new guys.
The reason the ships weren't armed is because of the Treaty of Ghent, which ended the War of 1812 and banned armed ships on the Great Lakes. IIRC. :) I presume that treaty provision has been 'updated' or is just ignored at this point.
It also was not necessary, so a lot of savings in both money and weight.
@@apveening Time too, but it's also another little bit of history. :)
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Also Canada would look the other way....we were in the same war
@@marklittle8805 Yes, you were late. again. :)
"Necessity is the mother of invention."
This was huge. The US grew its output of increasingly better trained naval pilots throughout the war. After Midway the Japanese never could adequately train enough new pilots to offset the loss of well trained and experienced pilots. This culminated in the Battle of the Philippine Sea, where the Americans nearly wiped out the entire Japanese naval air arm in what is aptly called the “Mariana turkey shoot”. On top of that, while the Zero strarted the war as the best naval aircraft, Japan never mass produced a better plane. The US massed produced three generations of aircraft. By late in the war, the US edge in pilot skill and aircraft performance was producing up to 10 to 1 kill ratios.
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The Hellcat is often considered the best of all time w a 19:1 kill ratio...
Dad flew 55 sorties off the Essex during the last 6 months of the war.
NAS Corpus Christi is still there...training pilots.
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Every now and then they raise a training plane that sank in Lake Michigan.
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