Can IRDX Make My Guitars "More Real"??
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2024
- Thanks for watching my demo and review of the Bogren Digital IRDX plugin. This plugin aims to " recreate the dynamic sound of real speakers" so it's supposed to make Impulse Responses sound less static. Let's take a look...
Bogren Digital IRDX: bogrendigital.com/products/ir...
Gear used in this video:
- ESP LTD Phoenix Arctic Metal (EMG81)
- ML Drums by ML Sound Lab
- Cubase 13 Pro
- ENGL Ironball SE tube amp
- OwnHammer Impulse Responses
- RedSeven Amplification Amp Central reactive load
This channel is sponsored by:
OwnHammer: www.ownhammer.com/
ML Sound Lab (ML Drums): ml-sound-lab.com/pages/ml-drums
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#bogrendigital #irdx #speakerdynamics
Disclaimer: this video is sponsored but as always all thoughts and opinions are 100% my own!
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What are your thoughts on IRDX Core? How do you like the effect that it's adding?
It adds harmonics and saturation, nothing special imho, there are tons of plugins that can do this,. On the intense setting it adds some nasty high-frequencies and dirt in your example.
@Asyouwere yeah I guess that's for when you really want an over the top sound
To stay positive, you could say that it removes the blanket of the speakers.
@@Asyouwere it adds some top end excitement, that's definitely noticeable.
My first impression is that it actually does quite well what I missed in IRs compared to real cabs. Even before the discussion about that subject started I felt that IRs were more static sounding which I didnt like so I started to record with mics again...
I like it, I bought it. The easiest way to hear the difference is to play some muted strumming or funky chords with a clean setting and the same intensity. Listen in your DAW and switch IRDX Core on and off... if you can't hear a difference...don't use it.
Super interesting! Thank you Jon!
amazing demo man, your music really is the perfect merger of metal and rock that i love
It's almost like you can "feel" it more than actually hearing it but it definitely makes a difference in the dynamics.
It's subtle but you can definitely notice it
I think it's placebo. Noticed 0 difference.
lol
@@misterringer same.
@@misterringerlol, that's impossible. I'll say it's subtle though.
It really surprised me when I tried it on vocals, definitely buying it
Good video man. Had this plugin for a couple of days now. I record a ton through real amps mic'd and a ton with amps into IRs and this definitely sounds closer to the real thing. It adds a bit of depth and there are more dynamics. In particular in the low end. It sounds more cohesive down there. All subtle stuff, but you can definitely tell when it's on. Worth the $40 in my opinion if you are mixing tracks. Bogren is the man. Cubase 4 life.
Cool! Reminds me of the “impedance” module on audio assault’s “air” plugin!
This one is really interesting to me. I record my amps using IRs for practical reasons and sometimes the static sound of the impulses kinda bums me out a bit. In principle it can sound massive but there's this weird plasticky "film" over the guitar tone, the lack of random little artifacts a physical speaker produces sometimes makes the guitar tone just kind of "sit there" instead of breathing. Check out isolated Van Halen guitar tracks for an example of that, you can hear the Greenbacks hanging on for dear life, makes me smile! On some Wes Montgomery recordings you can even hear the tubes of the combo amp resonating, not the most desirable artifact in the tone but it's a fun 'easter egg' to spot.
A guy with a RUclips channel called Raytown Productions ran the IRDX through Plugindoctor and found out that it's basically a combination of eq, saturation, an expander and a compressor (depending on the mode used). So no fairy dust there but for me the main selling point is that the plugin is dialed in by Jens himself. He knows what he wants to hear from guitars and the results he gets speak for themselves. Sure I can try to recreate the effect using plugins I already have but instead of opening up Saturn 2 and fumbling around wasting time I think I'd just rather slap this thing on the guitar tracks and turn the knob and see if I like the results.
If you put it across your guitar/ bass tracks instead of the bus it adds up and brings the guitars forward indeed but in a pleasant way. Its like spreading the channel strips from plugin alliance to the mix with different channels every time, you can tell the difference even if its minimum. It will note fix your tone or make it better but it's the cherry on top if you already have a great tone
Great comparison, man
Well plugins are modeling the sound of recorded amp/speaker/mic, not sure how people expect it to sound like an amp in the room. Mic + position are huge filters/EQs, be interesting to see if anyone can find a way to decouple then mimic what the room sound would be. The other big issue, how many people have their 2x12 at ear level? We're all used to listening to an amp way off axis compared to studio monitors. That's why a lot of people cut the top end off of IRs. Those high frequencies are normally aimed at our knees, not ears :P
WAY better, no joke. Great demo.
There's a difference! That would be my pick. Awesome video. Thanks
Air pressure effects and reverbs are awesome.
I don’t think I can tell what it’s doing but it’s definitely doing something and I like it!
Sounds like a mix of transient shaping, presence extension and an exciter/saturation (possibly a bit of stereo widening?). Would be interesting to experiment comparison with that kind of thing.
2nd that! a little "reptile greasy" imho!
That's exactly what ML Sound Lab found A/B phase flipping the signal.
It could be interesting to just feed a sinewave through the plugin, and use an oscilloscope to see what has been added. To me it sounds like something that happens if I feed it through a plugin like Spectre, that adds saturation at the bands that you specify. The oscilloscope probably shows it adds harmonics.
He doesnt even need an osciloscope.
a software spectrum analyzer will does the job
All that stuff is wizardry to me haha, I prefer to use my ears
You do know there are software oscilloscopes too right, the one in shaperbox is awesome. Or use an analyzer like Pro Q3 or any modern equalizer that has a realtime analyzer. @@exdafrianz3939
It is quite simple, just take any soft synth, load, initizalize the patch, use basic shapes and switch to sine. Load the bogner plugin and use a simple EQ with an analyzer. Nothing wrong with using your ears, but sometimes your eyes and thoughts deceive you too. @@SonicDriveStudio
There is a plugin called Plugin Doctor that is designed for analyzing plugins. Testing shows this plugin is adding harmonics, aliasing, a slight volume bump, a little bit of EQ color, expansion on normal mode and compression on intense mode.
I hear the difference, it's like an exciter/saturator dialed in for guitar. I personally like it off a bit more, at least in fast metal and stuff where I want a more "flat" cab sound and letting the distortion handle dynamics and all that. EG, in the MLC s_zero 100 plugin they put out a few months back, I turn it off or use external IR loader when recording more metal things with it but jamming more Marshall bluesy kinda stuff I enjoy the extra crackle and movement that happens with IRDX on.
cheers
I am completely torn by this. One on hand I do actually like the way it sounds, on the other it just feels like it's something that could probably be achieved with stock plugins if you could work out the chain.
It’s basically a dynamic EQ. But what is probably sophisticated about it is that it is a dynamic dynamic EQ. The EQ response is non linear.
I bet plugindoctor would reveal something like that.
Should ask Dan Worrall!
@@AlexSzokolyai raytown production did the tests with plugin doctor both subzero amp with this technology and core plugin ! ruclips.net/video/giE-ARAko0M/видео.htmlsi=Tu9J8MWQoEdba9xI
make your own then
I too liked, whatever it was adding :) I did have the impression that it added a tiny bit of volume, but I could be wrong.
I am one of those that think that the dynamics of speakers matter quite a bit, but it always baffles me, when people seem to try to model dynamic effects without referencing the precise speaker model. A Celestion blue has (IMO) a quite slow compression and a very smooth saturation, whereas a Greenback M25/M20 has a more crackling/raw distortion and maybe a bit less compression (I think of it as a 'bark'). A V30 is very punchy, so a fairly quick compression compared to other speakers, but I don't here much speaker distortion from that one.
IR application is a strictly linear mathematical process, so there is no dynamics (compression and distortion) included in an IR. I cannot really say, whether this plugin is realistic or not, but it definitely added something, and it was mostly nice.
It added compression, higher frequency EQ, and a level boost. Anyone could replicate this exact same effect with the stock plugins in their DAW. Everyone is tricked when they hear a plugin make something louder. Very few people think to A/B sounds with the levels exactly matched.
Truly hope Line 6 will add something like that in Helix
That also doens't brightens the sound.
Helix is fine. It doesnt need it. This is more for those wannabe real amp simulations that sound dead.
I thought exactly the same...
not sure if it's "realistic" or anything and to me it *sounds* like mainly some saturation and maybe compression but it definitely sounds nice.
I tend to put just a little bit of saturation (more in the upper frequencies) on my heavy guitars anyway and would guess the result is similar. 👀
I'm in love with it. Bogren cracked the code.
Works for me.
There's a guy who ran it through a spectographic analyzer (or whatever it's called). it's definitely doing stuff. it's adding a bit of high end (as is obvious), but it's not a static EQ curve. the whole thing oscillates a bit making it seem random and more natural.
however (a big one), once we're talking about the mix, unless you're running it at 150% intense mode, can you really notice it? I am absolutely certain you can't. what you can do instead you can just bust those high frequencies to get the same effect. you're definitely not gonna notice the eq randomness so you might as well do it with a static eq.
Cool concept. I think this can, as you say, be an interesting way to spice up your tones in a mix. Question for you: Have you tried Neural Amp Modeler (NAM) yet? I'd love to see you do a video for it and maybe even do some captures 🙂
ReValver 4 (not RV5) amps have 4 modes of interaction with IR module. And they feel real when playing. Although other plugins sound great, none of them can compete with RV4 in terms of "the feel".
As far as "dressing" raw tube amp signal with IRs - I really like Melda's MCabinet (with Celestion IRs) as well as Softube Celestion Speaker Shaper.
But for simplicity sake I normally go with Two Notes' WoS or ST CSS.
I'll have to try it for myself
It's worth a try
That plugin could have awesome potential in remastering old guitar stems to add dynamics !
Amazing guitar tone that you recorded. Is the Engl pre-amp out into the DAW?
I liked what the plugin did to the dynamics, it sounded less 'flat'. I wonder if it would be more effective when put on the separate tracks in stead of on the bus, I think it would create more separation and depth that way, did you test that as well?
Just use FabFilter Saturn instead, like our gold boy Buster does.
For me this is even a bigger '' ha ha ha '' than at the first time.Recording of moving speakers?Record my moving finger and check up how it change what exactly
?.And we will see how much compression I will create with my hand.
You can notice a little more presence, but it is not air, I use a Grossman isocab, it is an expensive solution but much better, I believe that a tape emulation does the same as this plug in
LOL ... I listened to the samples, that's COMPRESSION bro, I can do that with compression.
Ok. Honestly, isn't this an exciter? With some added compession? That's what it sounds like to me.
Sounds like a mild BBE with a bit of HF overdrive.
Very cool! Bogren made my #1 favorite IR of all time as well! I couldn't see clearly, was this placed before or after your IR plugin in the fx chain?
After
If its really a speaker "emulator" then its probably slightly adjusting the phase at a high rate of speed to mimic the back and forth movement of a speaker
Did you ever make a comparison video of normal IRs vs. high gain IRs?
I notice it more when it's turned off, it's good but subtle, then when remove the tone feels flatter ....a little
Also that "sizzle is something that captures usually miss tbh, so that's good
Cabinetron also has a non linear button but honestly I can't hear the difference. I did a null test and there are indeed tiny, dynamic differences, but in the mood, in the end doesn't make a bit difference. Especially compared to exactly what amp/IR are you going to use.
Sounds similar to what Slate’s Fresh Air does
Sounds great but also…sounds like a fixed EQ?
"Do you regret lowpassing that 57 you stuck right in the center of your speaker? We have a plugin for that!"
I'd like to think of it like a very nice guitar-specific saturation that can bring some life to the IRs which can feel sterile at times. Also curious what would happen if you add it to something like a snare track 🤔
Worth trying on other instruments!
The effect was subtle, and I don't know if I would have noticed it without it being pointed. Other companies make "Dynamic IRs," but i don't know how they compare to Bogren.
Not long ago,I was watching a video on Leon Todd's Channel where in the Preset, a subtle Tremolo was turned on during the playback. All of a sudden the guitar sounded more alive, dynamic, and the Amp sounded "real." It would be nice to qualify exactly what is going on sonicly when Guitarists talk about the sound of "Amp in the room" feel, etc. Is is pretty much just subtle irregular volume oscillations, and moving air hitting the the back of their legs? 🤷
" "Dynamic IRs,"" If you're referring to the Two Notes "DynIR" thing, i think the "dy(namic) part is that you can move the mics as freely as you want (so it's basically an engine that connects the mic position to the IR made with that mic position), instead of just loading a specific IR, which is a snapshot with a stuck mic position.
The IRDX seems to really just be a high shelf filter with fancy packaging (and maybe a bit of compression)
Great vid! Do you know if putting it on the guitar group instead of the individual tracks makes a difference?
I think it doesn't make a difference
it just adds some fizz/sizzle. But that's what i remove when i use IR. So we should just stop doing high cut and we are ok without buying a new plugin.
I do the same, but with multiband compression...
What exact IR used in the LowTuned pack ? Please
I could not hear it on RUclips thru my my cheap ass laptop. I got the free version and ABSOLUTELY heard the diff. Half off sale right now.
sounds like it's add harmonics and presence to me
Hi, can i play with that plugin live or this is only for mixing?
On normal settings it seems to definitely add high end sparkle but it's probably something EQ could achieve as well. But maybe not as it sounds a little like what I remember an aural exciter would do. On the intense setting, it just sounded nasty. It sounded almost like digital distortion. That sound would be unusable for me.
Definitely going to need a capture of this on the quad cortex!
Jon! What are you using to get that bass guitar tone??? Sounds great!
Helix Native, OH bass IR and some Slate plugins
I don't think this is really what it's claiming it is but if you like the subtle differences why not?
My apprehension here is I that prefer subtractive to additive eq, once I get into the daw.
I have noticed that I prefer something about my real speakers when pushed near their rating
I think for this I’d rather Mic up.
And drop the ir altogether.
I use irs to skip steps,
this adds one and it’s nuance seems negligible with how far digital has come.
TwoNotes Wall of Sound has a similar feature but only inside their walled garden.
(Speaker) "overload" thing ? Also available in the Two Notes Genome software btw.
I like the sound of it, but at the same time, I don't think it's a necessity. Your tone here still sounds great when IRDX is bypassed.
Reptile juice ;-)
Sounds like running an IR through a sonic maximizer
That's what I thought too
I really wonder how many people are going to use this and then put Soothe2 on their guitar bus and that's basically going to cancel it all out. lol It really does kind of sound like some of the "scratch" that Soothe tends to remove. Kind of cool though.
I can hear more top end. I am not sure about dynamics. Subtle difference. I can imagine putting high shelf EQ instead of plugin. IDK.
The best solution to this is actually the Celestion Speaker Mix Pro DSR's. These one size fits all plugin after a plugin are more snake oil cash grabs than anything. Don't be sold guys.
ML Sound Lab just released an video that does explain what's going on. It's cool, but I wouldn't call "realistic".
Or even desirable or unobtained by other means.
You can achieve the same sound with EQ in the DAW.
You cannot.
The main ingredient of this is saturation.
idk. looks like an eq/exciter to me.
It sounds good, but not $40 good. For that price you can get the Sonnox Oxford Inflator on offer and achieve a similar result
Sorry, I don't feel any 'air' in the iPhone's speakers.
Gotta love phone speakers
After listening to both tracks, I really can't tell the difference
All of these 'magic' plugin things, while providing interesting results sometimes, are nothing to do with real cabinet dynamics. This is because there's not enough information in guitar output signal to 'add back' these missing things - for this to properly work, you need to 'inject' into how Power Amp and Cabinet inter-connect on electrical level - which is obviously not there when we're speaking about a simulated amp output and added IR on top of it. In real world, guitar cabinet non-linearities are due to both electrical effects of amp cab being a single electrical system, plus added physical properties of a cabinet itself and its speaker physical properties in particular. Some of these are emulated pretty well in certain products where cab load is emulated (impedance curves and other things); other things were never properly implemented in commercially available products. But consensus among engineers seems to be that there would be diminishing returns on whatever resources would be spent to add 1-2 extra percent to realism in this particular area.
Also I would say there's something misleading in IRDX plugin description on their site - like IR in essence is only a static representation of guitar cab (and the room where it was recorded provided there's enough of IR's length present, I would add). But it's not fully correct - an IR also contains natural sound reflections of the room (again, if there's enough of IR length present), which, dare I say, is practically enough to faithfully recreate what is actually needed. Just my two cents...
The main issue with IRs is that... well, there are too many of them! There are LOTS of them which sound really good, so you just spend hours and hours of trying to find the best one... until you'll find out that the one you selected yesterday does not sound as good today, so the quest starts once again. And again. And again.
Just seems like a little EQ and excitement with a little snake oil mixed in to help market the product.
Cool concept, but feels a bit fake in a way i cant explain, at least when the effect is more noticeable. It changes the dinamics in a extrange way.
Is it a saturator?
Well as you can hear, it does add saturation. Don't know what else it does. It has an effect on the eq curve as well as you can hear
So it’s a compressor and EQ. Just do that
It doesn’t make a huge difference IMO.
I’ve never really thought my IRs needed any saturation.
The animation of the speaker moving probably was more work than the effect its self. This is one of the plugins where the package was more expensive than the content. 🤔
any difference is negligible at best
Sounds just like an Exciter to me… Gimmicky.
To me it sounded more natural without it
I agree with you, I think the plugin itself sounds nice, but their claims to recreate the sound of real speakers is dubious at best. You can't do that with an IR, you can't replicate what it sounds like to be in the room with the real thing. It's just marketing nonsense, which is actually off-putting enough to me that I wouldn't buy the product.
Sounds like a tiiiiiiny bit of a top end boost, barely noticeable in solo, not noticeable at all in the mix. Certainly not without looking at the screen. I do not like the sound of Intense mode, at least not in this context. Not worth the 40€ IMHO. Would like to see this through Plugin Doctor still.
99% of the ppl in the crowd can't tell the difference in mic'd and ir cabs
A simple saturation plugin should yield similar results. Cash grab.
Noticed no difference. Maybe a little bit of presence boost, but very slight. And..........that's just eq haha.
It definitely does just a 1.5 db boost at 10khz, no dinamyc at all 😂. Plugin doctor quickly reveal that. And actually it obviously if you have good monitoring system 😂
Just another snake oil 😂
I hear zero difference.
I hear way too much distortion and saturation, but not the good one, it sounds like a bad master from the 2000s
Waste of money
Seems like another snake oil product, to me
Save your money. This thing wont save you from a shitty guitar tone.
Why overcomplicate things? Guitar -> amp. There ya go. It sounds like an amp now. All of these computer hacker nerds shell out so much money and spend so much time tweaking their little toney woneys that nobody else gives a shit about nor can they even hear them, instead of just playing their damn guitars. Asinine.
I didnt hear enough of a difference to warrent buying it.
Nothing can improve zoom 505