I thought Lucifer was true neutral only, oops Guess they did give him more phases, but that just means they in fact intended to make him harder and it still sucked
Abdiel is really interesting. Unlike YHWH, who usually is a Law villain because it serves His ends, Abdiel believes in the forces of God’s Law so strongly, she chose to willingly defy God to serve His Order.
Dazai does have a point, the gods are mostly insane assholes and should be kept away from humans as much as possible. He went a bit insane in the process, and Abdiel is a hypocrite, but both are well meaning in their madness.
It also makes you think back to Apocalypse, Krishna's Salvation plan was never gonna work cause the Gods would get greedy again and start wanting more humans to worship them.
Abdiel gets humbled after you beat her and while her goal is still very-much Law aligned (to restore God's Order at any cost) she willingly damned herself to achieve that goal (the form you see pre-battle is a Fallen, not a Herald). And Dazai also has a point on Chaos, where he talks about a world with a myriad of gods is bound to eternal strife (which the Chaos ending kinda confirms). At least teaming up with him and Abbdiel has a mostly-happy ending where you restore Order, but the Nahobino is less tyranical than YHVH and besides free will being gone no word on genocide or similar stuff is heard.
@@Wizzard220 I mean, we never get anything to suggest that God was tyrannical at all, other than His treatment of the other "gods" and banishing humans from Eden after they disobeyed the one rule He gave them.
@@christopherbravo1813 The angels deem anything that happens to be “fate” that cannot be mended. They kill indiscriminately as long as it serves the order. And demons who don’t become Nahobino turn into Miman and lose their memories, there are a few Miman lines in Taito that confirm this directly. On the contrary, there is nothing to suggest that Tsukuyomi’s Amatsukami will cause chaos other than “Dazai said so.” In the first place, Tsukuyomi never said anything about giving the reign to Zeus, Odin and co. He wanted to give the power to the Amatsukami to protect Japan as its prime minister, the rest was made up along the way because the writing team for SMT V is braindead.
3:32 I can't believe I'm saying this but I ended up feeling bad for Shohei Yakumo and Nuwa. By the time this fight came around I was getting tired of gods fighting over the right to rule and demons using humans for their own ends. I also felt I was being manipulated into sitting upon the throne of creation, so once Shohei died I wanted to take up his weapon on his behalf and destroy that throne so utterly that no one could ever fight over it again.
Ngl Up to this point I still felt sympathy and understanding for dazais mentality and enjoyed abdiels hypocrisy to accomplish her goals. Abdiel is debatably the law rep I can follow the most, willing to break the rules to uphold peaceful ideals. But at the same time this is also the only cutscene that makes shohei as sympathetic as I wanted him to be by the time of knowing his backstory. I wish he were given more screen time imo
Actually really interesting seeing this boss without an overlevelled team that trivialises it. I really don't think the alignment bosses should have been less than level 90 when there are level 87 demons in the previous dungeon and Shiva's level 95. Makes these bosses a joke if you're going for the secret ending and honestly the level 87 enemies in the previous dungeon prompt the player to overprepare. I'd also say the fact Zeus is higher level than them is ridiculous too.
The level scaling is so off so I blame that for people overleveling. I vividly remember on my first run, when I got to Odin and saw him level, and he immediately clapped my cheeks, I went back to grind just for him to make it a fair fight, only to proceed to this last dungeon and see all the bosses get murdered by me, all because I leveled up for a boss 2 dungeons prior.
@@ubermaster1 yeah the level scaling once you got to Taito was all over the place, you had the Orochi's, Rangda's,and the 3 Bethel bosses at least 20 levels higherthan you, then the Temple of Eternity had level 83 Mada''s and level 87 Chi You's (the only Tyrant seen in a field encounter), like how the hell did they not expect players to overlevel. And that's not including the fact that the true ending requires you to defeat Shiva which most player are gonna grind their team to the 90's to defeat him, and unfortunately Lucifer only goes up to 90 (should've honestly been level 99. So yeah the level scaling in part 4 is bonkers.
The saddest part is, that Atlus could easily fix these things with a couple of patches, but knowing them they won't do anything in terms of actual balancing.
I think i'm like, what.. level 76 at the time i'm fighting Abdiel? If I need to beat Shiva before beating Abdiel, i'll beat her right now, reload to before, then go beef up to take on the rest of the optional bosses before I come back and delete her. That way I can get the secret ending AND keep my pride.
I like how they subvert the usual Law characters' attitude by saying "in order to uphold God's Law, we must first break it. Without falling and becoming a Unified God, Abdiel would never have gotten as far as she did. I feel like the people commenting about SMT's writing don't actually understand the message behind the games. It was never about good vs evil, it is about the pointless struggle of existence while under the tyrannical control of higher powers. In SMT 1, the Chaos faction was represented by nationalist Japanese military force, while the Law faction was represented by the Americans who came to impose their ideal of law and order to the nation. SMT is ultimately a humanistic story, where humanity is the key factor to everything that happens. Without humanity, God, Lucifer, and even the old pagan gods have no power. They rely on humanity to live and strive. Abdiel wants to restore the law and order they believe to be correct, Tsukuyomi want to reclaim what was taken from them, Nuwa just wants humanity to be free from the gods and demons that would abuse them, and Lucifer just wants humanity to be freed from the shackles God put on them. Sorry if this seems rambly, I am just frustrated by the attitude of people who think writing is bad just because you disagree with the message, all while ignoring the context.
No, I think people(generally speaking) find V's writing bad because of how bland and ineffectual the characters are, the disproportionately high position the game puts them on, and how quickly the plot moves between the sparse story sections, giving you little to no material from which to build a firm disposition towards the route you take.
the problem with abdiel's story isn't the theme of her arc being clear enough. the prblem lies entirely in dazai's character. throughout the game, he's always a weakling who simps for abdiel, and barely grows an inch troughout all his screentime. then you get to taito, and suddenly he goes from coward simp to maniacal zealot in one line. it's way too sudden, and unfiting for the story as a whole, because he's now presented as a saturday morning cartoon villain with loose logic and ambitions. there was no reason for this change to occur, nor was there any need for it. and for a series that's about the moral greyness of philosophy, how all options are either too extreme or equaly valid, portraying a character as a saturday morning cartoon villain, in an installment that lands more in the "all options are equaly valid" side, dosn't work.
@@demondays3956 Gotta admit though, his transformation was one of the only entertaining things that any character did in the game. Even of it was tonally out of nowhere, seeing him suddenly turn into Holy Knight Wesker made my day.
Ah, yes, the perfect team... The spiritual union of a Demon and Human... The medium between the Zoroastrian believers and their god, Ahura Mazda... One of the four Heavenly Kings, said to lead the Gandharvas, a race of celestial musicians... And some demon on the shitter with SUPER bad constipation. = _=
@@qazisgone7292 Yeah, except that one time in Shido's palace, where girls clearly didn't want to be groomed by that perv shadow at the pool. Or when he's the first one to consider Ann strip for Yusuke, which she was against. Yeah....
Indeed. The demon she fused with was named Kaim, who tore off his own head, and it resulted in a form much like this. In many of the Devilman continuities this was how Sirene ended up dying.
I remember in previous battles that you were frequently putting up elemental dampeners to cancel the more powerful attacks; how come you can never seem to block Purgatorium?
I chose the law route in this game. All the routes ultimately continue to leave humanity in a world where the powerful dominate and run wild with their own agendas. But in Abdiel's route, you are the sole God with the power to shape the world as you see fit and solve problems. In Tsukuyomi's route, you give your power to an endless number of Living Nukes to war and bicker among themselves while oppressing humanity underfoot at their whim. In Yakumo's route, you leave humanity in a destroyed netherwold. And in Nuwa's route, you leave humanity in our present world with all its politics and problems, problems and without the divine power to fix its injustices - which is not that different from Tsukuyomi's world except the ruling class dominates instead of a pantheon of gods.
Honestly, law ending. I find it more religiously understanding and better for mankind if they remained blissfully unaware of the sacrifices made on their behalf while peace remains ever lasting. Even if I prefer the true neutral ending
Cus concentrate and charge in this were nerfed into the floor only being a 1.8 multiply er instead of a 2.5. Straight spamming does more damage without them unless you have a support demon with donum magici/gladi but that's more a shiva/demi thing as they're where getting the nahobino to hit as hard as possible actually matters cus they hit like a freight train too
Yikes... Seeing an angel turning into a nahobino disgust me. (Reminds me of neutral route version of smt 4 that you are a light of the Unclean ones...)
But the “Unclean Ones” were human? Flynn stopped being human once he sided with either Merkabah or Lucifer. He’s still human in the neutral route where he’s fighting for the sake of people of Tokyo so they could see the light again and live without the fear of demons.
![Shin Megami Tensei 5 - Boss Ishtar (8 Press Turns) [HARD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sDBhtkKnXfs/mqdefault.jpg)
tfw you beat this boss in two turn cycles because you decided to do the secret ending first run
yes, completely ruined the last bosses...
I just don't get why Lucifer was so easy. I mean, he wanted you to kill him, but still.
@@krispy_kornflake endgame is a joke period game has many flaws
I thought Lucifer was true neutral only, oops
Guess they did give him more phases, but that just means they in fact intended to make him harder and it still sucked
@@diordiorgalore i had dificult with endgame battles because i went neutral
Yep, and Lucifer was a pushover.
Abdiel is really interesting. Unlike YHWH, who usually is a Law villain because it serves His ends, Abdiel believes in the forces of God’s Law so strongly, she chose to willingly defy God to serve His Order.
Dazai does have a point, the gods are mostly insane assholes and should be kept away from humans as much as possible. He went a bit insane in the process, and Abdiel is a hypocrite, but both are well meaning in their madness.
It also makes you think back to Apocalypse, Krishna's Salvation plan was never gonna work cause the Gods would get greedy again and start wanting more humans to worship them.
Abdiel gets humbled after you beat her and while her goal is still very-much Law aligned (to restore God's Order at any cost) she willingly damned herself to achieve that goal (the form you see pre-battle is a Fallen, not a Herald). And Dazai also has a point on Chaos, where he talks about a world with a myriad of gods is bound to eternal strife (which the Chaos ending kinda confirms). At least teaming up with him and Abbdiel has a mostly-happy ending where you restore Order, but the Nahobino is less tyranical than YHVH and besides free will being gone no word on genocide or similar stuff is heard.
Abdiel is ALWAYS a hypocrite. It only took killing her for her to FINALLY admit that GOD. IS. DEAD.
@@Wizzard220 I mean, we never get anything to suggest that God was tyrannical at all, other than His treatment of the other "gods" and banishing humans from Eden after they disobeyed the one rule He gave them.
@@christopherbravo1813 The angels deem anything that happens to be “fate” that cannot be mended. They kill indiscriminately as long as it serves the order. And demons who don’t become Nahobino turn into Miman and lose their memories, there are a few Miman lines in Taito that confirm this directly.
On the contrary, there is nothing to suggest that Tsukuyomi’s Amatsukami will cause chaos other than “Dazai said so.” In the first place, Tsukuyomi never said anything about giving the reign to Zeus, Odin and co. He wanted to give the power to the Amatsukami to protect Japan as its prime minister, the rest was made up along the way because the writing team for SMT V is braindead.
3:32 I can't believe I'm saying this but I ended up feeling bad for Shohei Yakumo and Nuwa. By the time this fight came around I was getting tired of gods fighting over the right to rule and demons using humans for their own ends. I also felt I was being manipulated into sitting upon the throne of creation, so once Shohei died I wanted to take up his weapon on his behalf and destroy that throne so utterly that no one could ever fight over it again.
Damn, I can believe great value ryuji simped for the law route
Dollar Store Ryuji
99 cent store Ryuji simped for the law no screaming at all
That’s why you don’t skimp on your blonde haired side kicks, you either put in the money for a good one or you get this….
Wish Yosuke.
*Shin Ryuji Tensei
Ngl
Up to this point I still felt sympathy and understanding for dazais mentality and enjoyed abdiels hypocrisy to accomplish her goals. Abdiel is debatably the law rep I can follow the most, willing to break the rules to uphold peaceful ideals.
But at the same time this is also the only cutscene that makes shohei as sympathetic as I wanted him to be by the time of knowing his backstory. I wish he were given more screen time imo
Actually really interesting seeing this boss without an overlevelled team that trivialises it. I really don't think the alignment bosses should have been less than level 90 when there are level 87 demons in the previous dungeon and Shiva's level 95. Makes these bosses a joke if you're going for the secret ending and honestly the level 87 enemies in the previous dungeon prompt the player to overprepare. I'd also say the fact Zeus is higher level than them is ridiculous too.
The level scaling is so off so I blame that for people overleveling.
I vividly remember on my first run, when I got to Odin and saw him level, and he immediately clapped my cheeks, I went back to grind just for him to make it a fair fight, only to proceed to this last dungeon and see all the bosses get murdered by me, all because I leveled up for a boss 2 dungeons prior.
@@ubermaster1 yeah the level scaling once you got to Taito was all over the place, you had the Orochi's, Rangda's,and the 3 Bethel bosses at least 20 levels higherthan you, then the Temple of Eternity had level 83 Mada''s and level 87 Chi You's (the only Tyrant seen in a field encounter), like how the hell did they not expect players to overlevel.
And that's not including the fact that the true ending requires you to defeat Shiva which most player are gonna grind their team to the 90's to defeat him, and unfortunately Lucifer only goes up to 90 (should've honestly been level 99.
So yeah the level scaling in part 4 is bonkers.
I feel it was poor attempt to make the MC feel like hes a god.
The saddest part is, that Atlus could easily fix these things with a couple of patches, but knowing them they won't do anything in terms of actual balancing.
I think i'm like, what.. level 76 at the time i'm fighting Abdiel?
If I need to beat Shiva before beating Abdiel, i'll beat her right now, reload to before, then go beef up to take on the rest of the optional bosses before I come back and delete her.
That way I can get the secret ending AND keep my pride.
Who would've thought Logan Paul would be the Law Hero in SMTV
I like how they subvert the usual Law characters' attitude by saying "in order to uphold God's Law, we must first break it. Without falling and becoming a Unified God, Abdiel would never have gotten as far as she did.
I feel like the people commenting about SMT's writing don't actually understand the message behind the games. It was never about good vs evil, it is about the pointless struggle of existence while under the tyrannical control of higher powers.
In SMT 1, the Chaos faction was represented by nationalist Japanese military force, while the Law faction was represented by the Americans who came to impose their ideal of law and order to the nation.
SMT is ultimately a humanistic story, where humanity is the key factor to everything that happens. Without humanity, God, Lucifer, and even the old pagan gods have no power. They rely on humanity to live and strive.
Abdiel wants to restore the law and order they believe to be correct, Tsukuyomi want to reclaim what was taken from them, Nuwa just wants humanity to be free from the gods and demons that would abuse them, and Lucifer just wants humanity to be freed from the shackles God put on them.
Sorry if this seems rambly, I am just frustrated by the attitude of people who think writing is bad just because you disagree with the message, all while ignoring the context.
No, I think people(generally speaking) find V's writing bad because of how bland and ineffectual the characters are, the disproportionately high position the game puts them on, and how quickly the plot moves between the sparse story sections, giving you little to no material from which to build a firm disposition towards the route you take.
the problem with abdiel's story isn't the theme of her arc being clear enough. the prblem lies entirely in dazai's character.
throughout the game, he's always a weakling who simps for abdiel, and barely grows an inch troughout all his screentime. then you get to taito, and suddenly he goes from coward simp to maniacal zealot in one line. it's way too sudden, and unfiting for the story as a whole, because he's now presented as a saturday morning cartoon villain with loose logic and ambitions. there was no reason for this change to occur, nor was there any need for it. and for a series that's about the moral greyness of philosophy, how all options are either too extreme or equaly valid, portraying a character as a saturday morning cartoon villain, in an installment that lands more in the "all options are equaly valid" side, dosn't work.
@@demondays3956 Gotta admit though, his transformation was one of the only entertaining things that any character did in the game. Even of it was tonally out of nowhere, seeing him suddenly turn into Holy Knight Wesker made my day.
Dont worry, people on the internet dont understand philosophy or how to properly interpret writing
it's because I understand the "humanist" nature of SMT that I HATE the mainline games so much.
Ah, yes, the perfect team...
The spiritual union of a Demon and Human...
The medium between the Zoroastrian believers and their god, Ahura Mazda...
One of the four Heavenly Kings, said to lead the Gandharvas, a race of celestial musicians...
And some demon on the shitter with SUPER bad constipation. = _=
That's Christianity for you lol
To be fair that demon has eaten a LOT of fiber so he has a good reason to be clogged.
Gotta admit he's a powerful af demon to be fighting and tanking while on the john.
@@charcoal6017 Okay, but like... This is supposed to be a really big fight, and it's hard to take seriously with this guy having trouble on the loo.
@@mistahjenkins4826 Total flex on Abdiel and Dazai
I'm gonna called Dazai, Grand Order Ryuji since he's Law aligned.
Or call him Yosuke because Ryuji is a shittier Yosuke.
@@whyisblue923taken So Grand Order Yosuke then?
@@whyisblue923taken Atleast Ryuji doesn't force the girls to do something they're uncomfortable with lol...
@@qazisgone7292 Yeah, except that one time in Shido's palace, where girls clearly didn't want to be groomed by that perv shadow at the pool. Or when he's the first one to consider Ann strip for Yusuke, which she was against. Yeah....
@@JRPGLOVER Oh yeah i forgot that happened my bad.
She actually remind me of a demon in Devilman. Her name is Sirene, i think(?) It's after she fused with another demon
I actually saw that, but holy shit did I hate that anime
@@krispy_kornflake
It was fucking trash.
Indeed. The demon she fused with was named Kaim, who tore off his own head, and it resulted in a form much like this. In many of the Devilman continuities this was how Sirene ended up dying.
@@Kspice9000 it’s really good wdym? 😃😃😀
Abdiel after she unlocked her Devil Trigger.
Yikes.. never knew he would turn into that.. btw nice boss theme.
Same like wtf.
Did Dazai even meet numa and yakumo before this? This conversation feels rushed
Kinda unrelated,but aren't the Baal Avatar and Vishnu-Flynn Nahobinos before Nahobinos?
I guess so in a sense.
At this point, SMT is just re-marketing their old ideas
I see that with Vishnu Flynn, but I don't know if the demons in the IV world were Nahobinos before or just were part of nature
Metatron as well somewhat
Nahobino is just a rip off Godslayer.
Why does she sound like Alvin and the chipmunks
caught ya simping
The best Boss battle theme in the entire soundtrack for me.
I want Nuwa to step on me
Same. Mommy Nuwa is waifu, along with idol Idunn, and ofc Cleopatra.
Dan, they gave Abdiel such an awesome, metal look!
I remember in previous battles that you were frequently putting up elemental dampeners to cancel the more powerful attacks; how come you can never seem to block Purgatorium?
Purgatorium has fire pierce.
@@BuffMaister Makes sense. 👍
Many of the end bosses have pierce moves. Just to make sure they hit you as hard as possible.
When ya go the law route, it automatically makes you an asshole. Dazai should have played previous SMT games. It never ends well.
I dunno, Amane from Devil Survivor was pretty chill.
@@calitz87 She was too preachy. I went with my cousin Naoya. It was the total badass route.
@@whyisblue923taken he was a manipulative asshole who murdered me centuries ago. I went with every route other than his.
I chose the law route in this game. All the routes ultimately continue to leave humanity in a world where the powerful dominate and run wild with their own agendas. But in Abdiel's route, you are the sole God with the power to shape the world as you see fit and solve problems. In Tsukuyomi's route, you give your power to an endless number of Living Nukes to war and bicker among themselves while oppressing humanity underfoot at their whim. In Yakumo's route, you leave humanity in a destroyed netherwold. And in Nuwa's route, you leave humanity in our present world with all its politics and problems, problems and without the divine power to fix its injustices - which is not that different from Tsukuyomi's world except the ruling class dominates instead of a pantheon of gods.
14:57
Oof…
For a brief moment there, Buff got possessed by Sirlionhart
@@sayospecter6731 "I understood that reference"
When you don't put a single point in AG stat:
@@sayospecter6731 Man I swear to God if I miss I'm going to be the maddest person on Earth
So what's ur favorite ending?
Honestly, law ending. I find it more religiously understanding and better for mankind if they remained blissfully unaware of the sacrifices made on their behalf while peace remains ever lasting. Even if I prefer the true neutral ending
The only ones that got up again
I hate how they intentionally make the Law reps seem evil here.
still, Dazai does have a point.
They know their fanbase
Their fanbase hates LG characters
You mean how like Law always is?
@@pn2294 LG characters?
@@sparktwochristopher7240 Lawful Good
They’re considered boring
It's sooooo forced
How do you make your demons have the ability to use items?
miracle you unlock
Miracle near the very beginning of the game.
Ohh boy, ohh golly I wish I could use an ability that could heal or revive people as a nahibino.
Nahobino: Bucentauro Amore a Sorpresa
Ohhh my real name is Abdiel
dazaaai
Damn maybe God’s Natural Order ain't that bad
Do you not have... concentrate?
Cus concentrate and charge in this were nerfed into the floor only being a 1.8 multiply er instead of a 2.5. Straight spamming does more damage without them unless you have a support demon with donum magici/gladi but that's more a shiva/demi thing as they're where getting the nahobino to hit as hard as possible actually matters cus they hit like a freight train too
@@evilanimegenious does this also go for the pierce effect skill?
@@thanakoto2239 as its pierce + the next hit gets a charge/concentrate boost, yes looking at the numbers
damn, i thought it was raidou
Sparda is that you?
girimekhala made this fight way to easy xD.
Siren
Wait, is that Ryuji from Persona 5?!?!
No it’s Great Value brand Ryuji
Nah that's 1 dollar Ryuji, he was in sale
It's Challenge youtuber Ryuji
Evil Yosuke.
Yikes... Seeing an angel turning into a nahobino disgust me. (Reminds me of neutral route version of smt 4 that you are a light of the Unclean ones...)
In what sense? Flynn did nothing and stayed human? You mean the...other 2?
But the “Unclean Ones” were human? Flynn stopped being human once he sided with either Merkabah or Lucifer. He’s still human in the neutral route where he’s fighting for the sake of people of Tokyo so they could see the light again and live without the fear of demons.