Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
Where are all the electric dirt bikes?! ︱Cross Training Enduro
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2021
- www.crosstraini... tractionerag.com Where are all the electric dirt bikes? Some of us have been waiting years now for that breakthrough moment when an electric dirt bike can match its smelly noisy cousins for light weight, power and distance. Imagine this baby available for less than current prices. No clutch. No gear changes. No stalling. Instant torque. Impossible to drown. No oil changes, or cleaning air filters. Left hand rear brake. Infinitely adjustable power settings. The motocross model weighed a hefty 120kg (265lb), but had a claimed output of 50hp. Alta claimed the battery could last 25 minutes of racing, or up to four hours cruising in the woods. But it was bloody expensive and they went bankrupt. KTM brought out the E-ride electric dirt bike a few years ago then it mysteriously disappeared. Now it's back again and the claimed weight of 108kg is pretty good, around the same as a two stroke enduro bike with half a tank of fuel. Where do I sign up for the next generation electric dirt bikes? We will look at the KTM e-ride, Sur Ron Strom Bee, and Alta Reshift. Electric bikes are doing well in other areas. An electric bike has done the quarter mile in six seconds. Another one has reached 254 mph or 408kmh. Things did look promising with the Alta Redshift a few years ago. But that's at the expense of range and power. Good results for our next generation electric dirt bikes? d there are some quite decent electric road bikes and scooters now. But dirt bikes pose a real challenge with the demand for light weight, plenty of power, and a decent range. Owners of the new model report one to two hours riding depending on how hard you ride. And the power output of 24.5hp for this electric motorbike is around half that of a 300cc two stroke. Telsa has lighter more powerful engines on the way as they manage to keep them cooler at high revs. We need several big changes to make this sort of electric dirt bike a reality e.g. KTM e-ride, Sur Ron Strom Bee, and Alta Reshift. What do you guys think of the KTM e-ride, Sur Ron Strom Bee, and Alta Reshift? Probably the final contender is the Chinese made Sur Ron Storm Bee electric dirt bike. It's definitely on the heavy side at 127kg for their offroad version. It has a claimed maximum of 30hp, and a claimed range of 100km sitting on a steady 50kmh. Elon Musk reckons we will see dramatic improvements in the current lithium ion batteries in coming years. Otherwise a more recent technology, ultracapacitors, might pave the way to much more effective batteries. And there's also a lithium titanium oxide battery that can be potentially charged in under 10 minutes and last almost forever. Second, the electric dirt bike engines. The faster they can spin, the more power you get but cooling becomes a problem. Keen to see decent electric bikes? Or will that smelly noisy old bike have to be pried from your cold dead fingers? Keen to hear your thoughts! Eventually it trickles down into the motorbike industry. And then eventually into dirt bikes. The biggest hurdles? Heavy weight. Limited range. Not enough power. Long charge times. Too expensive. And often just plain ugly electric motorbikes. But this could all change soon. First, electric motorbike battery technology.The current ones are still bulky, heavy, don't store enough energy and take too long to charge. But this could all change soon. And two Italian companies are pioneering liquid cooled engines for the same purpose. Third, prices will get cheaper. Eventually. Unfortunately research and development is expensive, so it's almost all happening in the automotive world. With a bit of luck the Japanese might come up with a good looking bike. This is Yamaha's prototype. And Honda is working on this motocross version. And for those who will miss the noise, you can just plug your headphones in while riding to hear this. Or make your own sounds. But we will need to see quite a few breakthroughs, and big sales, before decent electric dirt bikes are cheap. Four. The ugly factor. These bikes have really been hit with ugly stick. Repeatedly. Are they letting the interns design them after too many hash cookies? Who knows... I went to a recent motorbike exhibition and was these electric horrors. It will be interesting to see how long it takes us to adapt to a different style of look as electric dirt bikes become popular.
CHAPTERS
• Where are all the elec... Introduction
• Where are all the elec... Some e-bike achievements
• Where are all the elec... Best e-dirt bikes so far?
• Where are all the elec... The biggest problems
• Where are all the elec... Next breakthroughs?
• Where are all the elec... It could take a long time
Future models • Where are all the elec...
Let us know if we used your music but forgot to credit you.
#crosstrainingenduro #enduro #tractionerag #electricdirtbike
IS IT 'MOTOR' OR ENGINE' FOR ELECTRIC MOTORBIKES?
Engineering and techie types are getting hung up about this. My take? English is bastardised mongrel language where meanings are constantly changing. 'Motor' and 'engine' were originally very vague definitions. However, engineers gradually defined 'engines' as meaning combustion driven, and 'motor' for electric propulsion. However, the terms are increasingly interchangeable again and modern dictionaries are reflecting this. I use them interchangeably. If this annoys you, too bad! 😂 If you are into the discussion read on....
The etymologies of ‘motor’ and ‘engine’ reflect the way language evolves to represent what’s happening in the world. The root of “motor” is the Latin movere, which means “to move,” which is a pretty literal definition of what a “motor” does. “Engine” is nowhere near that specific. “Engine” comes from the Latin ingenium, which means character, mental powers, talent, intellect, or cleverness. It has nothing to do with mechanical force, nor the differences between electric motors and internal combustion engines. Prior to the widespread adoption of gasoline and diesel engines, in fact, the word “engine” was used to describe things like apparatuses for catching game, nets, traps and decoys, according to Fuller. “Engine” - in other words - is a metaphor, or “a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, especially something abstract.”
OVER 100 FREE ENDURO TRAINING VIDS
English not your first language? Subtitles in 30+ languages!
Basic enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3BtOVyI
Intermediate enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3HSkh4r
Advanced enduro skills playlist bit.ly/3oNNeqF
BIKE SETUP & RIDING GEAR
Bike setup playlist: bit.ly/3sBar0i
Protective gear playlist: bit.ly/34BYDTI
Which bike should I buy? bit.ly/3gLTJG1
Knee protection playlist bit.ly/36fR4Cw
OUR OTHER PLAYLISTS
Reviews of bikes & products bit.ly/3GQCVrO
All about helmets bit.ly/3sJxIgy
Enduro philosophy! bit.ly/33meQeV
10 ways to hop logs bit.ly/3JqlOPx
The weird side of enduro! bit.ly/3Js1ai2
LOL!!!! That mediocre 2T sound immitation at the end made my day!
I've got some footage somewhere of Megs Braap where we are coasting down a crazy long descent making two stroke noises all the way... 😂
Metoo
He was riding an IT175.
especially when he hit that dip :D you can definitely hear the limits of his engin.....ehm vocal cords :D
I started my oldest on a Razor electric dirt bike. She learned balance and throttle control in the cul de sac down the street. She’s now 8 and is riding an XR50 with good fundamentals. Her sister is 5 and just started riding a smaller Razor electric dirt bike. Electric dirt bikes are already changing the sport since my girls and other kids have a massive head start.
Great to hear, Chris. It must be brilliant being able to dial in the lowest power setting and increase it as their skills improve.
Love the idea of cruising through the woods in silence - it's something I appreciate from mountain biking. Additionally, electric bikes would alleviate a lot of the public concerns about 'noise' from motorbikes. Less pressure on available riding places is a great thing. Just need to have the power, range, light weight, and minimal charge times...
I enjoy the sound of a two stroke but must admit the idea of silence is appealing too, as I love being out in nature....
Sorry Kestrel for the negativity of Lone Wolf, he's been dropping this sort of comment all over the place so he's banned now. Nobody needs that kind of negativity. 😊
@@crosstrainingenduro No hard feelings! I love a good combustion engine, too - hard to beat a good V4. There are times and places for all of these things.. some days you want to rip around and let an engine sing.. other days, silence is golden. More options makes me happy.
I’ve been riding my whole life almost 40 years now.. I love my gas but I’m really looking forward to the electric stage because the power delivery is instant and basically all the benefits you listed in the video are true not to mention the ability to ride it pretty much anywhere without complaints all worth their weight in gold.. I bought my son the ktm sx-e 5 that little bike is absolutely amazing.. can’t wait till it gets scaled up and all the manufactures start making competitive electric race bikes!
Same here, I'll miss aspects of the old smokers but see lots of benefits with an e-bike as they nail the technology.
@@crosstrainingenduro As long as they quiet the gear noises, I'll be ecstatic.
I love petrol engines and used to be motorcycle mechanic but if I could get an electric dirt bike at a price I can afford (tough ask, that one) then I would. Where I live it would open up so many opportunities to ride more, purely because of the lack of noise. I could be riding daily, instead of one day every few weeks. Plus, it's one less thing that doesn't need the usual engine maintenance, which would free up a little bit more precious time to go riding even more.
The lack of maintenance is a huge plus for me... just pop some new bearings in that engine occasionally.
Those are my thoughts as well.
I think it will really open up the sport to other people as well. Those are not excited by having to use a clutch, to shift gears, make noise, and do maintenance every ride.
And heat. No idea about the thermos of electric bikes but here in BC it’s basically kickstands down until late summer due to fire risk. I’m totally down for an electric bike at a good price.
Get a Surron light bee then guys! It’s quite affordable
Having an MX track open up much closer to where I live would be cool. The one that used to be close got banished for the noise as housing built up close to it. Silent bikes, bring it on!
One of the reasons Alta failed are all the "nah" sayers who have never ridden an e dirt bike and judge before trying. Watch the channel of AJ Catanzaro. He test rode an Alta and in map 1 after few metres he said he wanted one. Few weeks later he presented HIS own Alta exr. If people don't consider electric motors as an addition to the sport, an alternative, as an opportunity to ride in restricted areas, this technology will fail. How someone cannot like a dirt bike which accelerates in under 4 sec to 60mph??? AJ said the Alta handles like a 125 with the power of a 450...
People are very very stupid, and hate things that are different
I ride around 200-250kms of extreme terrain in a day. Tell me more about why i need to be stranded in nowhere....
I have three Altas and I love them. Best dirt bikes ever made. I charge them, bring two to the track, ride them until we are both worn out, then go home. I wash them sometimes, but otherwise there is no maintenance of any kind. Very cheap and simple to own. Lots of riding. At the motocross track you can't hear your own bike anyway but when trail riding, you can hear the rear tire throwing the roost. This is the sound that I prefer much over the BRAAAP.
I don’t like all of the banning of off-road bikes in California, but if one positive comes from it, it may be advances in electric off-road bikes by necessity.
@@Dingbobber You mean things like the internet and smart phones? Yeah, people HATE those things.
I'm 61 years old, wanted to get back into woods riding. Bought two Sur Rons and been enjoying them tremendously! Son, brother, friends -- we head out to the woods trails and have a blast. 120 lbs is easy to handle at my age, easy to load, pick up after dumping, etc. The battery usually lasts longer than my energy. Happy with some rear tire upgrades, messing with some gearing and we can buzz around single tracks pretty darn well. If you need a beast, these are not for you -- but these are tremendously enjoyable woods machines.
Great to hear. The battery life is a serious drawback for many riders but there are plenty of cases where it's a non issue. E.g. our slow technical rides are often less than 15km and we only use half a tank of fuel before we are exhausted... so an e-bike would probably work well. We are just waiting for them to be under 99kg.
I'm really rooting for electric motorcycles. Sounds great to have something so low maintenance and reliable. And quiet for keeping shenanigans on the DL.
You and me both, Luke.... It's amazing to see how divided some get over the issue though. I would certainly miss my two stroke but if overall the e-bike is eventually a better proposition, I'll make the change.
Playing cards in the spokes optional
im yet to see reliable electric mx/enduro bike. my 2 stroke 50cc moped went through hell and back in 40 years, still kicking. rented ktm e-ride 8or whatever is called) take it on the trip to local forest, got nasty surprise. they dont like water, twigs and i suspect controller was tampered with too. maybe i just got lemon, but I'll stick to 2/4 strokes for now. will deff keep eyes on them. then i can choose whatever i want; ICe or electric. best of both i guess :D .
Less maintenance + same performance + reasonable/ affordable price = GIMME
@@ApocGuy Hey, what kind of water exposure did you get? The KTM should be completely water tight, something is fishy. If you check the video where Josh Hill rides the Alta in a waterpark, he jumps in a pool and gets out no problem. Granted, bad bikes (like ZERO) have exposed contacts, so a creek would soon end the pleasure
I will stick with the 2 stroke, I have a real passion for the internal combustion engine. I love the smell of castor oil. I enjoy mixing fuel and servicing my bikes, love restoration of vintage 2strokes. I can never remember to charge my phone so I know what would happen if I had an electric moto.
You can remember to change oil and air filters and adjust valves and do top ends but you can't remember to charge it? K
@@mxgryan yep that's how it is when your a true petrol head
Got any OSSA or Bultaco off road bikes?
I suspect there won't be any new combustion bikes even being made any more within the next 20 years. Yep, that damn quick, electric is coming, and it's coming fast. When they first start appearing at tracks in numbers, they will be on par for weight/performance/price, and then they will overtake and your 2 stroke will be rendered into a heavy, slow, unwieldy, expensive, dinosaur by comparison, and turning up with one will be like turning up to a modern mx track with a 1970's scrambler. Eventually they will be banned from most tracks due to the noise and stench. You will struggle to even find fuel available to buy, and what you can find will be horrendously expensive. Also, just like 2 strokes were sidelined by 4 strokes, all the top level races will be ridden by factory riders exclusively on the lighter, faster, E-bikes, and everyone else will copy. Game over. PS - this coming from a current 2-stroke fan, but future E-bike fan waiting in anticipation. The good news is, your 2-stroke will become a valuable collectors item, assuming you can keep it from rusting away and seizing up.
@@quintinlarson9499 Yeah, love the YZ's, fast, fun, reliable, and affordable parts.
There was a split second where my mind went "when did beta make an electric?!?" Haha
I wonder if the main bearings in the e-engine would fail regularly? 😂
@@crosstrainingenduro ha!
@@crosstrainingenduro To my way of thinking, an e-motor should last reasonably well as the armature is encapsulated in an electric field, keeping it balanced and taking some load off the bearings. A blow out with the air gun after a ride will help clean the internals clean.
Well my son's 6 and had a oset 12.5 and now a husky ee5 and our family absolutely loves them!! Care free and easy! We ride in the backyard everyday and grandma and mom aren't afraid to get it out without dad! The power on the little husqvarna is amazing! I'm ready for mine!!!
You nailed it. I converted a '74 TY175 (keeping the trans & clutch) to electric five years ago using Ryobi batteries and chargers, Ecotec motor. Recharge in one hour, discharge in one hour. Twenty pounds lighter than stock. Instant power and torque. Underpowered, but it makes you learn finesse. Cooling is critical for any power plant. Waiting for battery technology to catch up to my expectations. I've got an older GasGas (a "modern trials bike") under the conversion scalpel, the batteries are the last step. Fat tire E-Bikes are an interesting development, particularly for those of us with lots of sand to play in.
Have you seen video about assembling 18650 cell together. It is maybe the same type of cell you use in your Ryobi battery. It would be more complex but much better.
Must have been an interesting project, Gary! When the tech is good enough, I hope they'll have kits that can be adapted to any motorbike with a wrecked engine.
@@crosstrainingenduro It puts in a short appearance in Luckenbach, Texas for an AMA Trials event, it's first ever, damp conditions and a short loop, perfect conditions for it ruclips.net/video/SO-DS27T7oM/видео.html
I will keep the mighty DR650
Mmmmm all true . I have an Electric Motion escape R . I get around 2hrs of medium riding and about 45 miles . Less if I’m nailed on a easy flowing trial say about 35 miles . So I mainly use it for exploring new trials and only pottering about . It has a rear foot brake and normal clutch . Weighs around 80kg . And has climbed many steep hills with little effort .It’s smaller than an enduro bike . I love it because you can get away with riding almost anywhere. Here in the uk places to ride are normally too far away for a spontaneous ride . I love the bike and it’s my second . Very expensive though . But I get to ride more often which makes up for the price . I would highly recommend one , Not for hard enduro but to keep the smiles and fitness up . Great vid . Let’s hope you get sent some bikes to try out . 👍🏻
One day I will get one
Great to hear, Chris. I might have already grabbed one except I'm so tall I would be too uncomfortable using one for our regular rides. Even the KTM e-Ride is way too small, so I'm waiting for that full sized model to come out.
@@crosstrainingenduro yeah they are small . Seat height is around 830mm . I ride a 250 f freeride and that has a low seat height which is perfect for me . I’m 5’11 .
You're missing the big picture. Alta motors went bankrupt because their bikes didn't solve a problem. They were just an electric version of the bikes we already have and love. Now... Make a bike less than 80 pounds with, great suspension and a half decent power hit and you will have a game changer. The bicycle world is miles ahead in this game!
The one thing that has squeezes dirt bikes out of every forest/land - noise. Electric best thing to happen to the sport ever. And they will only improve as time goes by. Just plug it in. Love it
👍
Alta only went bankrupt because a major shareholder pulled out (after they got all the knowledge), their brand Is called HD…
And Bombardier bought the rest of the company also only to get the tech…
Yep, screw HD. Fortnine had a good episode about it. That Alta was very promising. I’m pissed about what Harley did.
@@thatalaskaguy Yeah, the Alta had a lot of potential. It was even competitive at red bull straight rhythm a few years back.
fucked me right off as it occured the same week i was ready to buy one. i refuse to buy a brand new ICE bike, but considering all the advantages an ALTA would have given me it was going to be worth the higher asking price.
A real shame. If they had continued and could knock the weight down some more I would have been buying one for sure.
@@crosstrainingenduro the big stakeholder that sunk Alta was Harley Davidson.
I am keen - they are limiting riding areas and most places to it because of "noise pollution". With electric we could get so many trails back.
I doubt they will open lands back up, but I think it could slow down the rate of closure.
@@crosstrainingenduro Here most tracks are on lease by different clubs and the leases were canceled because of noise. They would have been able to keep them open if they would have implemented a noise level check and make sure that all bikes that ride are in compliance. But most riders use "for racing only" mufflers and implementing something like that is too expensive. xD
thing is tho, when you go ride them regardless of them being open or not, your less likely to be caught if they cant hear you from miles away
Yeah unfortunately not the same people b**** if you take an electric bike on the same trails I've done it. All the mountain bikers and hikers claim heavy erosion now with ebike usage which is obviously not true but they still claim it anyways
They will only end up shutting them for some other reason. Because people keep accepting concessions, concessions will continue to come.
How long will the battery last? I spoke with an Alta Redshift owner. It also has a 6KW battery so his battery life may be similar to the Stark Varg.
I'm an old trail rider.
Max range on Map 1-2, riding roads and gravel, 25-45 mph taking it easy, minimal hooning, 40 miles - no fun.
Single track, Map 2-3, moderate pace, moderate elevation changes, 25-30 miles.
Race pace, I would say around 20 miles single track.
MX/SX track, people are running it down in 30 mins.
I primarily ride it like a workout/training ride at my club property. Tight single track, some nice elevation changes. Ride at a good pace, 12-15 miles, minimal stops. A good half days ride, usually uses 1/3-1/2 battery.
If I want to hit the mountains, I can do 20-30 mile loops in 1/2 day. If I want a full days ride, I loop back to the truck, charge with the generator, fast charger, 1-1.5 hrs, back out for another 20-30 miles. Longer rides, I take the Husky FE 350 (no where near as fun as the Alta).
You showed a couple clips of the Sur Ron Light Bee but never talked about it. The Light Bee is a unique bike that blends the light weight of a mountain bike and power of a dirt bike, well a minbike. It's a sort of in between a mountain bike and dirt bike. It weighs about 125lbs and has about the same power of a 125cc 4stroke. With just a controller and battery upgrade you can keep up with 230cc bikes. It is also probably the cheapest electric dirtbike you can get at around $4000 USD. I have raced it in hare scrambles, mini mx races, and supermoto races.
I see it in the very near future for SX. It's very possible to run a moto on a charge and have the battery swapped for the next one. Instant torque out of corners. Off road racing, it's going to be a tough market to get into. I don't want to pit every lap, spray the bike off, and swap batteries.
Just swap bikes each lap
Problem solved
NEXT
@@Maccaroney Lol 8 bikes for each rider
@@shoefly757 with most lithium batteries' ability to quick charge to around 80% in 30 minutes or less that technology should make it possible to only need 2 bikes for most enduro loops.
@@Maccaroney right, but a lot of us pit for ourselves. There would have to be a quick access charging port or something. If the battery had to be removed it would be too much time.
@@shoefly757 Ah. Yeah, didn't think about that.
i bought a Surron Light bee and its great ofcourse i would like more range but that will come with time.
you can get away with so much more with electric then a loud 2 stroke or 4 stroke.
You're, 100%, my favorite dirt bike/motorcycle RUclipsr.
Whether we like it or not, electric bikes are the future. I don't understand why so many people think they're evil. Imagine the technology in 5 to 10 years.
I love the braap, but it will be a thing of the past. Mark my words.
I understand everyone has their preferences. But it does surprise me that some are so against the concept of e-bikes they don't want to be available to anyone. And actually see them as evil lol. If you go through all the comments you'll even find one or two guys who seem to think it's part of a conspiracy... sigh.
I ride my sur ron in both enduro and learning some MX. I even made it into a light dual sport. There is also the KTM Free Ride and Cake bikes. These are all smaller than 450cc class bikes but they're all capable of beating 250cc bikes while being significantly lighter and in the sur rons case, cheaper.
My Surron is heavily modified for 90 min. hare scrambles racing and black diamond Rampart Range trails. As a 60+ former MTB racer this bike is perfect for me as is and while I don't expect to buy into the newer and faster models it sure is fun watching the progression. And once you get used to electric and the sound or lack thereof, gas bikes just sound old fashioned and offensive so when I hear, "I like the sound of a real engine" I just smile and nod my head. Silly kids!
I'd love one! Mainly for how quiet they are, I generally go for about an hour long ride of slow techy single track each day so i think even the current ones would have enough range for that. i cant imagine ever being able to afford one though.
They do.
If it has 2 wheels and a engine or motor, I’ll love it. I love the electric, but after like 10 rides on electric and then going back to gas it’s a whole new experience again. They’re both awesome.
Distinctly different experiences from what I hear, John.
@@crosstrainingenduro indeed. You do miss the noise, but it takes a while. The bikes handle distinctly different. Electric reminds me of riding a desert 4 stroke. Sluggish heavy (but smooth) handling at low speed, but smooths out incredibly at speed and settles into the suspension. With no motor rotation they’re extremely nimble like flicking around and 85... yet the weigh is a desert 450 🤣 It’s really strange and cool at the same time.
With no clutch and gearbox it massively sharpens your bike handling skills and teaches patience, timing and throttle control. Outside of remembering where the controls are when hoping back onto gas, it makes the gas bike feel extremely easy to ride. HAVING a clutch lets you get away with extremely sloppy riding, poor line choice, poor traction etc... when the bailout lever is taken away, you find out real quick how you’ve been cheating. Anyone can relate to this if they’ve even broken a clutch lever off out on a ride. Of course that works the other way too... no knowledge of, or poor clutch control and clearly you aren’t maximizing what can be done with the bike.
A friend just bought one, hope to try it this week woohoo!
@@crosstrainingenduro probably something you won’t enjoy the first ride, it’s more like the third ride... there’s a learning curve. You will find it interesting and intriguing though.
@@JohnHowerton137 you can make an electric motor feel how ever you want. Can make it super peaky power or crazy bottom end etc its all based on how you tune the speed controller. You can have some crazy tcs go on at certin rpm or throttle levels can have different ramp up in power etc. Can limit torque/power to wtv at certin rpms its really crazy how much you can tune the motors(if they allow you to ever. Can do fair bit tunning with electric motors in rc).
I have a 1995 CR250 two stroke. I love the sound and the bike. I have no intentions of ever buying an electric bike.
KTM has a great market in 2 stroke an 4 stroke bikes. They can’t risk an Osborne effect by going electric until they can genuinely compete with ICE power.
I love the idea of an electric dirt bike and hope a good, affordable one comes around while my knees still work. It looks like Alta made some fantastic ones - really sad they disappeared. As the old saying goes - no good deed shall go unpunished!
Thanks for the report on this. Very helpful.
Cheers Jeff. I am really keen to buy one, but only when they get the price, weight and range right for the riding I do.
We camp in farmers fields here in New Zealand, for multi day trail rides. Can't beat refueling your 2T in under a minute for the full day from a petrol tin!
I want one, It would be perfect for my hot laps around our 15 or so miles of flowing sandy/rocky high desert single track in the afternoons after work from spring till winter. One hour of riding at pace would be all I need to get my fix until the weekend comes when I ride the woods on my 300. 2T
I have a One Wheel XT electric skateboard which is my daily dog (Chewy Airdale Terrier) runner. The One Wheel is like literally snowboarding anywhere, and is an instant no hassle ride.
It will not happen in the near future. The only, but also very hard to solve, problem is battery. I mean volume and weight. I don't think battery will ever be so small as current fuel tank with the same amount of energy. Petrol is chemical with allmost the highest energy density of all known chemicals, but the energy release process is not reversable as we know. To have reversable chemical process (charge and discharge), chemical must be more complex and not all chemical bonds can be broken during process. Also some part of material is not allowed to take part in chemical transition (isolator, electrolyte,..) This means energy density (wolume or weight to energy ratio) will allways be much smaller. Petrol has 46MJ/kg and LiIon battery is still below 1 MJ/kg. Taking into account better efficieency of electric motor, energy density ratio is still around 15:1. To have range of 1kg of fuel you need 15kg of batteries.
Very good points. It's a waiting game, and it could be just around the corner... but it's probably more like a decade away at least before e-dirt bikes will really work well.
@@crosstrainingenduro Maybe, or it could be never. Lithium has been well researched and explored. The big break throughs with lithium are seemingly over, and it doesn't look like there is another cost effective ( ie too rare) metal that can take its place.
@@MrDavidfuchser Solid state will increase density 2-3X, and won't explode or catch fire. That research has been done, as well. Pilot production started last year. SS is the obvious near future for batt tech, expected to take over standard lithium chemistries commercially by 2025.
The sounds are spot on! 🤣
I make similar sounds when just walking down the street, Sorin. I worry myself sometimes... 🤔😁
Anyone remember the Mattel Vrooom motors we put on our Schwinn Stingray bikes?
I have a 14,000 watt Sur Ron as well as a KTM 300 with a smart carb. The power delivery of my Sur Ron is actually better. I’m on board with electric ⚡️ 👍🏼
Bikes are like pokemon. Gotta have em all.
As a Tesla owner, I'm fully bought in on an electric future for cars... But enduro for me is about long rides and being self sufficient. Being so teathered by range is a deal breaker, and for the foreseeable future will probably continue. How do you recharge a bike on a three day camping trip in the desert?
That is a big limiting factor, Jeff. At some point batteries will be so cheap you just have a pile of these at base. But if you are going to gas stations, they would need to have rechargers there that don't take long. We may see batteries that can be recharged in 10 minutes eventually, but I suspect it's years away yet.
Recharge it from your cybertruck haha
I agree with you. Electric bikes are best positioned for trials style riding and short comutes at the moment.
Electricity exists in many more locations than fuel. It's just a matter of how much you can bring along (store in a battery).
@@crosstrainingenduro battery swap over needs to be a thing. if they implemented battery swap over tech so people could 'refuel' in 5-10 mins absolute max things would take off very very quickly
They're making solar panels that can roll up into a tub and you can carry it on your bike. Ride a day, hike a day, then ride some more. It's coming.
Could be helpful for people living in areas with restrictive laws around sound but where I live the distances are immense and sound isn't a concern. Main thing that closes off areas here are anti-dust laws that would affect electric bikes too.
Noise is definitely the largest problem on US east coast
NO WAY !!! the roar of a combustion engine is half the fun.
For trail riding, I switched to electric and will never go back. 120 lbs, roughly the power of a 250, 2 hours ride time, no shifting, no exhaust, no noise. Can switch to a bigger battery to double the range or carry a spare.
For me nothing will replace the sound, smells and feel of the power band of a combustion engine. Not to mention learning and performing the mainenance, care and modifications one can do to your ride. You are going to have to pry my carburated two stroke(s) from my cold dead hands. Make Two Stroke Great Again!!!
It comes down to a number of factors. Starting with the riding distance capabilities, followed by the recharge times. Both absolute failures.
entire deal is a scam -
Rotax and BRP have proved there is still a lot of life in the two stroke. The E-Tech is clean powerful and gives better fuel efficiency than competing 4-strokes. Out in the deep woods of Canada or Alaska there is no plug in power but fuel can be stored for use while out there.
We bought 2 Segway x260's this year and they gave been a blast to ride!! Quick tire upgrade and they keep up w the 250 and 300 2T's on the single tracks. Over logs and everything. Easy on the body and very fun.
I fear the day that real bikes won't be available
We will run out of real men that know how to even start one before then.
A real man can adapt and doesn't whine about his toys.
@@InfiniteVibration im about to ride a mountain that ive wagered 10,000bt that no one else can do. Its a good 5 hour ride....bring your 2hour electric bike with you and take my money...... oh? Theres no electric for 64kms you say? So how did that adapting work out?
@@InfiniteVibration thats not called adaption,the whole character of the sport changes.... clutch skills wont be necessary, mechanical skills won't be necessary either,YOU WON'T EVEN HAVE TO BE SKILLED ENOUGH TO PUSH A F*KING BUTTON IN ORDER TO START THE THING,you also won't need to be skilled enough to take advantage of the correct range of rpms,all in all making dirt bikes electric is destroying our sport, making it waaaay too easy and i really hope (even though im only 19)to be dead or crippled instead of being forced to ride one of these ugly no-sound,no-skill "bikes"
"real" bikes, says the one riding a bike with suspension. Back in my day "real" men only rode bikes without suspension. Suspension makes it way top easy on the beginners.
Do you now realize how stupid you sound?
You making the sounds of a two strokes, made my day 🤣
Braaaaap!
Ive got a sur ron light b x and have just purchased a new battery and controller.
Now have 15kw and over 500nm torque with only 52kg bike!
That's with a set of sm pro 21/18 wheels also fitted
We can ride hars for hours in the bush and easily keep up with 450's in the single tracks
So good, we ride them everywhere
52kg sounds good to me, Simon!
@@crosstrainingenduro mate you have to get one one of these things and see what you think
I have an Alta e bike. I made a 2 mile woods loop in a large patch of woods on a golf course I ride regularly. Super stealth!
How long can you usually ride on the one charge, Ryan?
@@crosstrainingenduro 3 hours or so single track riding with lots of elevation change... Half that if you crank it to the highest power mode and race around a moto track. Add some if you're just putting around or cruising the street.
I truly thought electric models would have been available 15 years ago. 🥺
Current battery technology won't allow it. Going to be years before we get anything lasting over 30 mins. There's also the finite issue. Batteries can only charge a certain number of times before they're dead and they cannot be recycled. What's the plan in 60 years when there's billions of dead caustic batteries stacking up around the world? Far more destructive then internal combustion engines in the long run.
@@johnnyskied blasphemy against the green religion....🤣
battery tools - good at first, but after a while they are on the charge more than in use.
Because they're cheap saggy cells that workers typically abuse - speaking as a construction worker (journeyman). Most people don't charge batteries properly because they don't understand how the chemistry works. Battery life is based on full charge/discharge cycles. If you drain it dead, then charge it completely, that counts as one cycle. The popular choice for tool batteries because of its energy density, li-ion, will last 500 cycles. LiFePo4 will last 5000 cycles. LTO will last over 10,000 cycles, etc. Chemistry and understanding what you're working with matters. Any battery company or electrical technician of any kind whose worth their wage will tell you that there's a recommended DOD that you shouldn't exceed if you want your batteries to last more than a year or two. For lead acid, that's 50%. For lithium it's 75-80%. Meaning you shouldn't drain the battery below 75-80% of it's capacity before charging, and you shouldn't fully charge them either. Keep them between 25-95% SOC and you'll get years of reliable service out of them. Of course, tool manufacturers won't tell you this because the faster your battery wears out, the sooner you'll be on your way to the tool store to buy a brand new kit after looking at the high cost of a tool specific replacement batt. I've had the same Mastercraft cordless drill and impact driver kit for over 5 years, for example. They don't like that. Besides, batt tech is much more affordable than the avg person realizes. Current costs are between $150-250/kWh. They've taken a significant dive in the last few years. Do a proper CBA on fuel costs long term. You could build a bike from scratch and have it pay for itself entirely in less than 5 years based on avg petrol vs electricity costs in North America.
Emotion. Trial bikes from France with one called pure escape as an enduro model with a hydraulic clutch. A friend of mine has one and love it. Still pricy. In the US over $12k !
100 years ago, the majority said vehicles would never replace horses. 50 years ago, the majority said four cylinder vehicles would fail. Today, the majority says electric won't replace gas. 50 years from now the flux capacitor will be making every other power obsolete. But, for now, people can dis each other for having the exact same fun on the exact same trails, doing the exact same thing.
Very true, Randy. Can't wait to the flux capacitor.... 😁
Bang on correct. And in 20yrs from now, those die hard fuel riders will be left in the dust. Just like the flat head motors in hot rods getting wipped by the modern Chevy power plants of the time.
How bout Castrol R air freshener technology!
We are on the same page. Love castor oil.
😂
Pried from my cold dead fingers? When I pass I intend to be strapped to my exe 350, lit on fire and pushed off a cliff like a modern day Viking.
@Johnny Rebellion you look like a good advertisement for leaving America.
Also a regentive braking system would be very helpful. With out much braking you do regentive would add lot range along with able setup as a engine braking.
I was going to say I don't care about the looks of a bike THEN you showed the designs of e-scooters and I had to agree with you. I don't think design needs to change for e-bikes. Just make them efficient. I'm hoping to buy a Sur Ron (dirt bike) and a NIU (scooter) this year, pandemic permitting. I'm happy to get an e-bike now rather than waiting until the tech improves. Except for long distance camping tours with my wife, for which I'll take my old Transalp, I'm ready to make the leap to electric. It's not just good for me, it's good for the planet.
The spicy comments from Ebike bro's are hilarious lol. We are decades away from having the battery technology to get decent range for off road, these companies should hire some of the engineers from specialized their E bicycles are amazing. For MX or derping around the city/suburbs sure electric is awesome and fun. There is a new ridged battery technology that you can make part of the frame the battery, again though that just broke out so it's a decade from real production. Instead of trying to force it let the market decide.
As much as I love the sound of a 2 stroke blasting through the woods an e-bike would not disturb the non riding people we share the woods with. Keep it looking like a dirt bike, give it a long range, a clutch, and a fast charge and I'm in. Until then, 2 stroke smoke is all it's about.
The non riding people hate anything that even looks like a dirt bike - noise or no noise!
@@dougcoleburn1579 So true, talking about the green coalition type, they MUST be always bitching about something that they really don't understand, like forest management, need I remind people of this ongoing disaster with wild fires? Of course they'll blame global warming rather than the fact they have the logging industry hog tied who used to thin out the forest and ultimately have healthier forest's, etc, etc.
And of course we all know dirt bikers in general are just horrible people! 🙄
Test rode an electric bike, it was freakin' sweet! I wasn't prepared for how much I liked it! The added benefit of practically zero maintenance (by comparison) is icing on the cake.
I have a friend who picked up his first ever e-trials bike two days ago, Dan.... He's already rung me twice to rave about it and insist I buy one too lol.
i recentley adapted a motor from a dalek to fit my piaggio it goes like stink i also put the demalition beam on the front to exterminate any competiton or logs in the track all this with the tardis button has made it very competative
As you get better, you can also use a rear mounted beam to get riders as you pass them.
@@crosstrainingenduro excellent idea
As long as I'm around, I'll be on a two stroke running mixed gas.
I'm not sure I could live without a clutch. I can't modulate my throttle hand position that accurately. Maybe a thumb throttle could work better
That is the part that I hate the most. Everybody seem to think that clutch is a thing of the past, only needed for ICE at start up. Same problem here with the transmission. It is not because the torque is constant that we don't need one. The goal of a transmission is to keep the engine where it make power. Luckily, there is a few trial brand that have made electric bike with clutch such as Electric Motion, Yamaha TY-E and I think Gas Gas has made a limited serie of trial with clutch and 6 gear. There was also some cheaper trials with a "fake" clutch. It was a lever that would cut power the more you pull it.
There is some hope 😉
I agree. I am now an intermediate enduro rider, and I don’t see how I would cope in the bush in technical terrain without a clutch. A simple example would be: how do you do a slow wheelie? I guess we would adapt to the power delivery of the electric engine, but I’m still afraid that we would lose something without a clutch. That being said, I’m pretty sure that you can add a clutch system on an electric engine without too much trouble.
But of course, I’m looking forward to have engines that do not emit any CO2 while running. There’s no other way on the long term.
@@Bloodnai for the Slow Wheelie tere is a dedicated button that you can press with your thumb and will modulate the power in accordance to the yawn-pitch-roll sensors and lift the bike up for you. It can also self-balance it on one wheel for as much as you want. 😅🤣
That feature would, of course, cost $10k. Would be called WheelieMaster.
If you want a 4 gears with a manual clutch that's full size electric dirt bike then EBeast is the one. We also have a 4 gears electric dirt with a manual clutch that's mid size similar to the ET Time Moto called the EFox! Seen on my Channel
The ending is the best, that person riding an electric bike and doing those two stroke gas sounds was absolutely hilarious 😂
There's a vid where Megs Braap and I are coasting down the same hill making tow stroke sounds all the way lol.
If they can power these bikes by the nuclear method i'm in.
Cold fusion would be nice. Just the banana peel for two years riding.... Back to the future!
What is the point of an E dirtbike? Trying to save the planet or look like one is trying to save the planet (that includes manufacturers)? Motorcycles are not the problem, the ships carrying them and all the other goods we buy are a different story however. Leave the dirtbikers alone. Be nice to see some progress on variable frame sizes to suit taller and shorter riders. The real market for two wheel electric power is in bicycles and scooters which is more and more evident every day.
No, saving the planet is no buying argument for me but if electric dirtbikes get better i will definetly buy one because they are SILENT! Im 16 and live in germany and currently ride a 125 2stroke, that thing is completly illegal and loud as hell, if i get caught from the police, im fucked. With an Electric dirt bike? No one even notices when you are riding in the woods or somewhere else.
The biggest reason for electric dirt bikes is noise. They will open up far more riding areas once the public isn't concerned about noise.
@@tumplitv4009
So why don't you simply buy a quieter bike?
@@GregHassler
I don't think noise is the only issue and I doubt the publics resistance will change, those forests will still remain closed to dirtbikes. Lots of trail hikers get upset if you are on a mtn bike for example.
Maintenance. Come home, a mins with a pressure washer, lube the chain, done.
Cold dead fingers all the way. You can carry extra fuel, get some from a buddy or stop at a fuel station, but you can’t carry an extra battery, get a charge from a buddy. I guess you can possibly find somewhere to charge it if you want to hang out for a bit. However I’m too old school.
GREAT engine sound!
WILL YOU BE SAD WHEN COMBUSTION ENGINES DIE OUT? I think many felt the same way when the original steam powered motorbike in 1881 was overtaken by the first combustion engine bike four years later. The death of a certain technology is always a tragedy. 😢
Electric dirt bikes can’t come soon enough for me!
Not if electric becomes superior in every way. But who knows if they will ever make that miracle battery.
I'll have a spot in my heart for the noise and vibrations but electric power delivery is so much better and it opens up so many more places to ride.
I won't miss it if we get epic 2-300 mile range and charging stations all over the place.
@@ayliniemi There are $billions being poured into battery research, as the rewards for each breakthrough are $huge. Governments around the world have announced 5/10/15/20yr deadlines for car companies to stop selling all combustion passenger cars (Norway is 5 years, and they already have >50% of new car sales as BEV). Car companies making similar announcements about their timeline for transition to electric only. Each passing year for the last umpteen years, there have been significant incremental advancements in weight, cost, and range of batteries. Same as each year for the last umpteen decades there have been incremental advances to combustion engines. Compare the power, size, weight, and efficiency of the motor in a model-T Ford with any car today and you get the picture. It is coming, and it is coming fast.
Another design problem IMO is they sound like you're riding a screeching case of tinnitus..
I have tinitus and cant even have the sound up on the video, the noise literally makes me want to deck someone.
Ya, but if you already have Tinnitus you won't even hear the bike! Can't wait.
👍😂
@@dallas_shannon you obviously dont know what it is.
My wife has a Surron Light Bee, its the size of a 125cc pit bike, weighs 50kg and runs down hill MTB suspension and brakes. It has plenty of grunt, will cart my 85kg up any hill and tops out at 65kmh with low gearing on the final drive (its very hilly where we live), or 85 kmh with standard gearing. The main issue is as you ad more weight your range reduces. She can get around 55km doing a dirt road run or about 40km in the bush but when i ride it the range reduces to probably 30km in the bush; enough for a quick loop. It does fill a very big void for the smaller riders wanting an easy bike to ride in the bush as the step between a 125 size bike to a decent 250 size bike is filled with heavy (for size) 230's with average quality components. VW and Toyota are working on solid state batteries and once they go into production and trickle into the motorcycle world, then you will see the range and weight in a mx or enduro style bike that you are after.
I'm excited for electric dirt bikes! Less reasons for people to complain about them! Look at R/C stuff everyone hated it when electric stuff came out. Now rarely do you ever see a non electric R/C car.
As much as i love my 300 2t i say -> Bring em on - I'd switch as soon as they sort range out. The possibilities are huge!
Sur Ron Light bee was one of the coolest bikes I've ever owned.
Didn't hit any problems with it?
Been riding my son inlaw's SurRon light Bee, and it's really fun. I'm real interested in the Storm Bee, but their not available here in Hawaii yet. I left my e-mail with the SurRon dealer to call me as soon as they get one in. It's not perfect but it's getting close, and I'm ready for the change.
I haven't had a chance to ride one yet, Pat. It sounds a bit heavy, there are claimed weights of 118 to 130kg being mentioned?
There is also battery replacement cost and maintenance. I for instance had a petrol Lawn mower seating for over a year on a shed, and fired right away with just new petrol. If you leave a battery without charge for a year, you can see what happens. Also batteries can be a risk if left charging for too long. I'll stick to petrol for the time being.
Plenty of things need to change with the batteries for sure....
I have no interest at all in a grown up "power wheel" toy, but one could put playing cards in the spokes for a little noise.
Can’t beat a petrol engine the noise is half the fun
The jury is out for me on E-bikes. The biggest challenge for me on a dirt bike is running out of charge in the woods. On a gas bike you can have your buddy ride back to the truck for more gas, or you can steel some from his tank. With an E-bike you are stuck unless you are carrying a spare battery or a small generator. I work for a company that is currently designing their own Lithium batteries and the technology is moving so fast that by the time we have a design done, the the energy density or charge rate changes between chemistries and you continue to play catch up. Eventually there will be a battery chemistry that gives us long charge, fast charge and reliability. I think the best answer is a flux capacitor that you feed dead leaves and sticks into. If there could be one that we could defecate into I'd be set for life :-)
Great idea!! I would name it the “flux crapacitator”!
@@cokecruzb 🤣🤣
Gr8 Video! I recently traded in a CBR for a new Surron and have no regrets. I think KTM may have stopped production due to the huge cost, since then more electric mountain bike brands have quickly developed and are available at affordable prices.
Until they sound like real bikes, very few will want them.
It would be interesting to see how many like and dislike the sound. I suspect the majority would miss the noise, but I know plenty of guys who are looking forward to the quiet...
Electric is going to out perform gas in everyway in the future.
4:53 KTM E-Braaaaap, music for the future dirt rider
Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. Braaaaaap......
Electric bikes are here to stay! ♻️🔋👏💪🔝❤️
I will be getting an electric dirt bike when they reach the right price. but i will proberly keep my petrol one also. Some clever editing in this video. I noticed the ktm wheelie at 2:13 sounds like electric but it has an expansion chamber and fuel cap. loved the way you put the whole voice over into text in the description.
The audio editing took ages to fake the sounds, Kyle. 😂 But I figured it would be good to get some idea of what they might sound like. I rode an EM e-trials bike this week and it's actually almost silent.
"Are they letting the interns design them after too many hash cookies" 🤣🤣
Check out the colours, man.... the colours! 👀
The solution is universal removable battery packs. Swap them between rides or motos or whatever. Id ride one sounds fun to me!
The ktm sx e5 is pretty neat. My friends’ kid rips on that thing. Just need an adult version.
Like it or not, they're the future. Kids electric dirt bikes are popular in the US because of noise restrictions at race venues and the lower cost of entry. I'll buy electric cars and bikes when I can see them to work better in every way to my ICE power vehicles at the South tip of Africa!
I'm ALL for electric bikes, BUT they MUST have a clutch to engage/disengage the power (prevents whiskey throttle). They also must match current bikes in performance/weight/range before I even consider them.
The new EM trials bikes have this, it will be interesting to see if it becomes an option on all e-dirt bikes in the future.
Since I got an electric I’ve honestly taken my gas bike out once in a year, I can ride every day whenever I want go wherever I want and piss no one off, it’s done grate in scrabbles and enduros, the numbers don’t all stack up when it comes to real life riding
Which one have you got?
@@crosstrainingenduro we have 2 modified sur Ron light bs, been running both for a year now with 2k miles between them without any problems and next to no maintenance
Please don’t think I’m in anyway against gas bikes I have 2, it’s the actual day to day things that I prefer, I’ve literally got to ride places that never in a million years you could take a 2 stroke, just that in itself has been the biggest game changer for myself
I will remain 2-T until some big Elect-tec breakthroughs happen. Mostly looking for lighter weight, distance, and charge time (in that order). I still love internal combustion.
Lithium titanium oxide 10 mins for a full charge and the battery longevity will last for ever now that's my cup of tea tbh
I like the idea of an ALL electric dirt bike as having a few 2 stroke beasts growing up , they made such a racket not everyone was a fan and hated the NOISE and I had the cops called on me because it was so loud.
If I could have had a quiet bike I could have rode for hours and had NO complaints, this is the only reason I like Electric powered bikes is that you can ride in areas where you normally couldn't ride !!
I hate electrical but here in the UK they would be amazing. People only kick up a fuss because it has an engine. Their too narrow minded to know the difference between a mountain bike and an electric off roader. No noise no problems. Plus we can sneak onto private land hehe
When I was young we used to ride cross country in AZ and sometimes we would pass little towns and we were low on gas. We could always find someone to sell us a quart or two, or a couple gallons. Even if we had to siphon it out of their car. But if we were on electric, we would be in big trouble.
the problem with electric propulsion is you CANT have all 3 things you mentioned at the start of the video. Lightweight and Power? sure. Power and long range? sure. Long range and light weight? sure. but all 3? Lightweight, Power and Long range? is not possible. and thats all down to the battery technology. currently the chemical possibilities are being limited by the lithium component. if they discover a brand new metal that can store alot more energy, with alot less weight, which is still affordable, then MAYBE well get all 3. but currently, its impossible combine all 3.
thats why you gave the example of the electric drag bike, high power, and relatively light weight. its more like a capacitor and not a battery powering that bike.
I agree, Wilco. As per the video, we'll need to see several breakthroughs. There's a chance they might not be off happening, but of course it could take many years... or possibly never.
Pried from my cold dead fingers. Been riding the same dual sport for more than 30 years. It's pretty reliable and paid for lol
I bought a Sur Ron (looks good, is well engineered & nice price, but specs make it a play bike mostly) to tide me over until something worth the investment (Stark Varg?) comes along. This video is mostly spot on , especially the "Hit with an ugly stick" part when it comes to many current designs. Love the "were these designed by interns after too many hash cookies" part!
The Sur Ron looks interesting for sure, I did contact them saying we'd like to do a review but never heard back.
@@crosstrainingenduro P.S. they may have not contacted you because they probably aren't hurting for sales judging on how many people own them now & a lot of youtube publicity