Great review. I aim like God using this mouse shape. I guess I update to za13c instead.of trying new shape. You can micro adjustment with pincer grip just like using your pen which is very natural.
Although I wasn't gonna buy this mouse either way, you're video was great! It was very informational and you gave great pros and cons for each of the grip styles on the ZA13-C. This video definitely deserves more love!
the ZA series are some of the best mice I ever layed my hand on. If Zowie makes a wireless ZA12 with better coating, better mouse wheel and like 10 grams lighter, it would be the very best mouse on the market (for me) :D
Those fast hand actions and speech, bro are you on adderall. Really nice review though srsly, I would honestly buy this mouse if there was a wireless version, the narrow sides and perfect hump for claw with a low profile front. I grip my mouse like a tennis ball so I'm a fan of these features
I've been looking for a mouse simillar to my fantech g10 rhasta for years now, after trying about a dozen "top" mice to no avail , I think the ZA13 just might be it.
Not really, I found out my grip is more of a relaxed fingertip than claw , so the ZA13 isn't suitable for me. I use small fingertip mice right now , my main G303 Deadalus with xtrfy MZ1 as close 2nd and Orochi v2 as 3rd best.
I love you man i got fucking long fingers in almost every mouse because of my pinky finger i didnt feel comfortable because it be really long for small humps but this is like an infinity stone for me i've been using it for about 2 weeks now and everything has changed
i have been trying to find a mouse with same or close shape/hump that is lighter in weight and newer sensor but everything else so much flatter and hurts my wrist to use
The za13-c is probably your best bet coming from the viper mini. The front end of the two mice are pretty similar so it should retain that same aggressive feel but the back is much higher so it'll fill out your palm a lot more and give more support. The s2 on the other hand is larger in every dimension than the viper mini so it'll feel a good bit larger. Its top is also flatter so it'll feel different in your hand. Neither is going to be a bad option for claw, but the za13 is a better shape imo, especially for someone coming from the viper mini.
Still maining G303se? It feels sooo weird to switch up mouse after landing my hand on this one for more than 1h Altough I find it to be a bit restricting sometimes compared to UL2, I still think I hit shot faster and I am a bit snappier than with any mice I own BTW sorry for English, you know what we say about french people and English KEKW
Got my ZA13-C yesterday. I went ahead and tested the QC. I didn't manage to get the popping sound that Boardzy's and your copy made but somehow I got it to activate M4 by pressing hard on the side. Only ever happened once though.
Should Zowie make a change in their design? All their mouses look so plain and relatively similar, even if they're quite different in practice. If someone wants an understated mouse they can also take into the office, they're excellent.
I really like the minimal designs personally. Vaxee and Zowie are my favorite mouse companies and I'm a huge fan of their approaches to mouse design. Like the other person said, I would like to see Zowie move to split triggers to help with their click feel but that's about it.
No I don't. I actually don't really know how to properly measure hand size myself, that's why I give the range between 9-9.5 cm for my hand width to cover for different measuring methods. Maybe I'll make a video on how to measure your hand and base what I talk about on that method.
I have almost the same hand size as you and I use the ZA13-C and also own the ZA12-B, the ZA13-C feels more 'snappy' but ZA12-B bigger. It depends on what you prefer, but ZA11-C is too big.
@@deshapedttv1033 If you can deal with a little discomfort with less finger space then ZA13. The closest way I can describe my experience using it with 18x10cm hand is that it feels like you’re writing with a pencil.
@@deshapedttv1033 snappy would be really cool for those swipe shots in Quake but is the feeling of snappy connected to being smaller and lighter? and is the feeling consistent? Because I know the placebo effect that sways away after a few days with every new mouse :)
I'm deciding between the Vaxee NP-01s, and this ZA13-C, for the S2-like hump, and high hump, respectively. I am a semi aggressive claw gripper, what advice do you have (I've seen both of your videos on them)?
I would recommend the za13-c. The np-01s is still really good, but its low profile shape might feel weird for an aggressive grip if you still want to create a lot of palm contact. Still, you can't really go wrong with either and both are some of my favorite mice, it's just that the difference between high and low profile backs changes the hand feel completely and I think high profile is safer for an aggressive claw.
I was already doubting to buy the xm1r would the mouse fit well in my hands for claw grip since my hands are 20 x 10cm or do you recommend another mouse because of the size of my hands
Yeah, the g403 was the first proper gaming mouse I used back when I fully switched to PC. I don't hate the shape but its weight is too high for me to be comfortable and not have wrist issues so its hard to properly judge it. For example, the og s2 was right on the edge of comfortable for me weight wise and while I did enjoy the shape, it was nothing incredible, but then when the s2-c released, I came to enjoy the shape far more because the mouse felt far less clunky and my grip became more comfortable. The g403 would have to be updated in a similar way for to properly evaluate it and not injure myself while using it. A superlight version would be incredible and I'd love to revisit a nostalgic shape.
Hello Kraftycarft I actually have a hand size of 16cm height and 9cm widht and I don't know what should I chose between the g303se and the za13-c knowing I claw grip just like how you do. Thank you for the amazing review!
I would recommend the za13-c. Its shape is far more universal and way easier to recommend than the g303se. I still do think that the g303se has a very high ceiling and I personally prefer it over the za13-c, but its shape is far more niche and less flexible. Even with the same grip style as me, the g303se has a super unique feel that could be awkward and uncomfortable in use while the za13 should be way easier to get used to.
@@KraftyCraftKraf it actually was me I just changed accs my last questions are: Should I change the stock feet of the za 13-c? Should I worry about the side flex and sound/ build quality? What is your recommendation for a mousepade that suits the za13-c? Thank you so much
The stock feet feel pretty solid and I don't think that you need to change them out to have a good experience. Build quality is definitely a concern and it could be likely that you will have to return your mouse to get a good copy. It being worth it depends on how tolerant you are of this process. I don't really believe in recommending specific pads for specific mice because the whole process of finding your setup is highly personal and good combos can vary greatly from person to person. For me, personally, I enjoyed the za13 on a wide variety of pads and it worked very well in many different situations, that's one of the reasons I liked it so much. Slow pads in particular worked the best, though, because the thin and low front made it easy to counteract high friction on small movements.
The ec3 will be really bad for palm grip unless you have baby hands. Its super short so there is not enough room on top of the mouse to place your hand without falling off the front of the buttons. The ec2, or even ec1 if your hands are large, will have much more room to get a comfortable palm grip. The za13 has a similar issue as the ec3 because it is a fairly small mouse with not enough length for palm and you start to run out of finger space on the sides as well. The za12 should actually be great for palm though. I haven't tried it myself, but looking at the dimensions compared to the za13 it seems to fix all the issues you would run into. Plus the za style hump fills your entire palm so well so it should be a great option.
I recently bought the za13-c knowing about some reviews with the flex/creaking noises on both sides of the mouse when you grip the mouse. I decided to take the gamble hoping that my copy doesnt flex or creak but sadly it does. I don't even grip it that hard and you can feel the sides of the mouse slightly flexing in and pops like the sides of the shell arent sturdy enough. I was very disappointed and contacted zowie about it and they replied "that's just the design of the mouse" and i was like are you kidding me? For 70 bucks I'm better off spending my money on another product. It is very sad because this shape is great but I just refuse to use it, i can't stand using a mice that you literally feel the sides popping in and make noises during game play. Will probably refund.
Probably got recalled. The C is the "updated" lighter version which they obviously lightened from thinning out the body, which cases issues. I've been using the regular ZA13 for overs 5 years and have had no issues. I have 3 of them and they all still work perfectly.
With a 21cm length I think the za12 would be better. You would have to curl your fingers a lot to get a proper grip and it would likely start to feel uncomfortable and awkwardly small. I would recommend finding people with larger hands to get recommendations from because mouse size preferences are highly personal and varied.
first of all for any hand size unless youre a baby, buy the za12, with its larger size you will aim much better with it (in video games), your aim will be smoother and more consistant. You wont feel as in control of the mouse like the with za13 but that feeling of control/preciseness is an illusion and does not mean your aiim is actually better. GPW and GPX are also very good.
hi krafty i have 19x11 hands do you think the za13 would be too small for me? Ive used the xm1r before the only thing i didnt like about it is how the right side of the mouse has a small hump towards the front which causes some uncomfort on my ring finger
The za13 should be totally fine for you. I’ve heard of a lot of people with the same hand size that really enjoy the shape. I get what you’re saying about the xm1 and it’s something that bothers me as well. The za13 also has a flare in the same area but it’s much less severe so it shouldn’t be as awkward to hold in that regard.
Nah I'm dumb as shit, I didn't think of that. There was a rare useful commenter that recommended the fix on my first video and it actually worked a little.
I think the xten is still my favorite pad but I'm a little lost in the sauce with mouse pads right now. It took me three weeks of exclusive use to get used to the gpz1 because its so unique. The process broke me a little and every pad feels super weird right now and I got some new pads in so it'll take a bit to recalibrate and figure things out. I should be able to figure things out and find out what I like the best in a couple of days to a week.
@@I3asyl same. I picked up some of the lethal skates in the small drop they did a couple of days ago and I’m looking foreword to trying them out on different pads.
The za11 is absolutely massive so I'll likely feel clunky even with your size hands. The za12 should be fine for creating a lot of palm contact in a claw grip style.
Good review, but your akward hand movement kept distracting me. I initially thought you were doing sign language for the hearing impaired but I guess not lol
I've been hesitating between the g303 se and the za13 c but after watching your review I've decided to pick up the zowie za13-c thank you so much.
where at bro they sold out everywhere
Get the za13c .The 303 shape is so hard to get used too. Its like holding a big sharp stone in your hand . It’s one of the worst mice Ive ever used .
So you happy with your choice?
Great review. I aim like God using this mouse shape. I guess I update to za13c instead.of trying new shape. You can micro adjustment with pincer grip just like using your pen which is very natural.
Exactly, this is what I thought back in 2015 when first try this shape. You can literally aim like you have a pen in your hand
Although I wasn't gonna buy this mouse either way, you're video was great! It was very informational and you gave great pros and cons for each of the grip styles on the ZA13-C. This video definitely deserves more love!
See a bunch of people talking about that side flex, so worryingly it might not be an isolated issue. Great shape breakdown as always!
The hump is the highlight of its shape if you want lower humps pick s2 or fk
Thanks for the comparison between xm1r! Great review
the ZA series are some of the best mice I ever layed my hand on. If Zowie makes a wireless ZA12 with better coating, better mouse wheel and like 10 grams lighter, it would be the very best mouse on the market (for me) :D
All mouses reviews should focus on the shape like you did.
Those fast hand actions and speech, bro are you on adderall.
Really nice review though srsly, I would honestly buy this mouse if there was a wireless version, the narrow sides and perfect hump for claw with a low profile front. I grip my mouse like a tennis ball so I'm a fan of these features
I've been looking for a mouse simillar to my fantech g10 rhasta for years now, after trying about a dozen "top" mice to no avail , I think the ZA13 just might be it.
Was it the one?
Not really, I found out my grip is more of a relaxed fingertip than claw , so the ZA13 isn't suitable for me. I use small fingertip mice right now , my main G303 Deadalus with xtrfy MZ1 as close 2nd and Orochi v2 as 3rd best.
I love you man i got fucking long fingers in almost every mouse because of my pinky finger i didnt feel comfortable because it be really long for small humps but this is like an infinity stone for me i've been using it for about 2 weeks now and everything has changed
Awesome, a mouse clicking for you like that hits different
i have been trying to find a mouse with same or close shape/hump that is lighter in weight and newer sensor but everything else so much flatter and hurts my wrist to use
Which would you choose between this one and G303? And why?
Love to see the comment
He says G303 is his main still cuz the mouse is literally made for his grip
wonder egg priority picture ✅
says zowie za13 is the best ✅
based asf
after 2Y finally za13dw
Im so confused with this and s1-c😢
How does this feels compared to a Pulsar x2?
mans pumping out content
g303 new wireless feels off, still not the same shape as the OG one
Actually the best zowie claw mouse*
Nice review, ive been using g502 hero. Need a replacement but with lighter weight
bro i have been having confusion btw s2-c or za13-c idk which to buy(i own a viper mini right now i use claw grip) can u help me?
The za13-c is probably your best bet coming from the viper mini. The front end of the two mice are pretty similar so it should retain that same aggressive feel but the back is much higher so it'll fill out your palm a lot more and give more support. The s2 on the other hand is larger in every dimension than the viper mini so it'll feel a good bit larger. Its top is also flatter so it'll feel different in your hand. Neither is going to be a bad option for claw, but the za13 is a better shape imo, especially for someone coming from the viper mini.
Still maining G303se? It feels sooo weird to switch up mouse after landing my hand on this one for more than 1h
Altough I find it to be a bit restricting sometimes compared to UL2, I still think I hit shot faster and I am a bit snappier than with any mice I own
BTW sorry for English, you know what we say about french people and English KEKW
Nevermind got my answer in the video! Great review as always ❤️
Got my ZA13-C yesterday. I went ahead and tested the QC. I didn't manage to get the popping sound that Boardzy's and your copy made but somehow I got it to activate M4 by pressing hard on the side. Only ever happened once though.
How were you able to get a ZA13-C? I've been checking and it seems like its out of stock everywhere..
@@DaiLo8069 sorry for the super late reply. I got my ZA13C literally right when it came out. It seems that it has been consistently out of stock
@@randomboiyo6254 Ah okay, I ended up getting a used one, thanks for the response though!
Which mouse do you feel most comfortable with?
Should Zowie make a change in their design? All their mouses look so plain and relatively similar, even if they're quite different in practice. If someone wants an understated mouse they can also take into the office, they're excellent.
Firs i totaly agree with your coment then frérot la guerre est finie
I think the main thing that would be nice is a split shell design for the buttons.
I really like the minimal designs personally. Vaxee and Zowie are my favorite mouse companies and I'm a huge fan of their approaches to mouse design. Like the other person said, I would like to see Zowie move to split triggers to help with their click feel but that's about it.
do you have a video for correct measuring hand size?
No I don't. I actually don't really know how to properly measure hand size myself, that's why I give the range between 9-9.5 cm for my hand width to cover for different measuring methods. Maybe I'll make a video on how to measure your hand and base what I talk about on that method.
@@KraftyCraftKraf would love it. Keep up the great work
with my 21x12 cm hand size, I will have to go for ZA-12 C or even ZA11-C. Relaxed claw is my grip. Thoughts?
I have almost the same hand size as you and I use the ZA13-C and also own the ZA12-B, the ZA13-C feels more 'snappy' but ZA12-B bigger. It depends on what you prefer, but ZA11-C is too big.
@@deshapedttv1033 If you can deal with a little discomfort with less finger space then ZA13. The closest way I can describe my experience using it with 18x10cm hand is that it feels like you’re writing with a pencil.
@@deshapedttv1033 snappy would be really cool for those swipe shots in Quake but is the feeling of snappy connected to being smaller and lighter? and is the feeling consistent? Because I know the placebo effect that sways away after a few days with every new mouse :)
@@randomboiyo6254 i have the same hand size and i wanna what is better for relax claw za 12 co 13
I'm deciding between the Vaxee NP-01s, and this ZA13-C, for the S2-like hump, and high hump, respectively. I am a semi aggressive claw gripper, what advice do you have (I've seen both of your videos on them)?
I would recommend the za13-c. The np-01s is still really good, but its low profile shape might feel weird for an aggressive grip if you still want to create a lot of palm contact. Still, you can't really go wrong with either and both are some of my favorite mice, it's just that the difference between high and low profile backs changes the hand feel completely and I think high profile is safer for an aggressive claw.
All Zowie mice are great but as they all differ in shape you need to try each and only then decide which fits you best.
Gotta ask I love the ZA shape and love the 13 c but gotta know for 20 x 9.9cm hands do you think It would be to small to fill my hand on a claw grip ?
i now use the model o for claw grip and my hand size is 20 x 10cm i just don't know which size will be good for me
@@Goffa22 model O just feels too flat for me as I currently main the Xm1r
I was already doubting to buy the xm1r would the mouse fit well in my hands for claw grip since my hands are 20 x 10cm or do you recommend another mouse because of the size of my hands
I think you should try out the Zowie ZA12-C or the ZA11-C, they are much slightly bigger
@@GiLLyMGL i got the xm1r
i want to get it but the height at the back of the mouse scares me lol
we have same grip, down to the pincer thing. have you tried the g403? I want to hear ur thoughts on it since it's my main right now.
Yeah, the g403 was the first proper gaming mouse I used back when I fully switched to PC. I don't hate the shape but its weight is too high for me to be comfortable and not have wrist issues so its hard to properly judge it. For example, the og s2 was right on the edge of comfortable for me weight wise and while I did enjoy the shape, it was nothing incredible, but then when the s2-c released, I came to enjoy the shape far more because the mouse felt far less clunky and my grip became more comfortable. The g403 would have to be updated in a similar way for to properly evaluate it and not injure myself while using it. A superlight version would be incredible and I'd love to revisit a nostalgic shape.
Hello Kraftycarft
I actually have a hand size of 16cm height and 9cm widht and I don't know what should I chose between the g303se and the za13-c knowing I claw grip just like how you do.
Thank you for the amazing review!
I would recommend the za13-c. Its shape is far more universal and way easier to recommend than the g303se. I still do think that the g303se has a very high ceiling and I personally prefer it over the za13-c, but its shape is far more niche and less flexible. Even with the same grip style as me, the g303se has a super unique feel that could be awkward and uncomfortable in use while the za13 should be way easier to get used to.
@@KraftyCraftKraf it actually was me I just changed accs my last questions are:
Should I change the stock feet of the za 13-c?
Should I worry about the side flex and sound/ build quality?
What is your recommendation for a mousepade that suits the za13-c?
Thank you so much
The stock feet feel pretty solid and I don't think that you need to change them out to have a good experience.
Build quality is definitely a concern and it could be likely that you will have to return your mouse to get a good copy. It being worth it depends on how tolerant you are of this process.
I don't really believe in recommending specific pads for specific mice because the whole process of finding your setup is highly personal and good combos can vary greatly from person to person. For me, personally, I enjoyed the za13 on a wide variety of pads and it worked very well in many different situations, that's one of the reasons I liked it so much. Slow pads in particular worked the best, though, because the thin and low front made it easy to counteract high friction on small movements.
What did you end up going with? I have a similar hand size
Whats better for palm grip? ZA13-C (or its other sizes) vs EC3-C.
The ec3 will be really bad for palm grip unless you have baby hands. Its super short so there is not enough room on top of the mouse to place your hand without falling off the front of the buttons. The ec2, or even ec1 if your hands are large, will have much more room to get a comfortable palm grip. The za13 has a similar issue as the ec3 because it is a fairly small mouse with not enough length for palm and you start to run out of finger space on the sides as well. The za12 should actually be great for palm though. I haven't tried it myself, but looking at the dimensions compared to the za13 it seems to fix all the issues you would run into. Plus the za style hump fills your entire palm so well so it should be a great option.
I recently bought the za13-c knowing about some reviews with the flex/creaking noises on both sides of the mouse when you grip the mouse. I decided to take the gamble hoping that my copy doesnt flex or creak but sadly it does. I don't even grip it that hard and you can feel the sides of the mouse slightly flexing in and pops like the sides of the shell arent sturdy enough. I was very disappointed and contacted zowie about it and they replied "that's just the design of the mouse" and i was like are you kidding me? For 70 bucks I'm better off spending my money on another product. It is very sad because this shape is great but I just refuse to use it, i can't stand using a mice that you literally feel the sides popping in and make noises during game play. Will probably refund.
I returned my ZA11C as it was doing the same and I should’ve gotten the 12/13C
@Pyroxz huh?
How were you able to get a ZA13-C? I've been checking and it seems like its out of stock everywhere..
Probably got recalled. The C is the "updated" lighter version which they obviously lightened from thinning out the body, which cases issues. I've been using the regular ZA13 for overs 5 years and have had no issues. I have 3 of them and they all still work perfectly.
I´ve got fairly large hands (21x11 cm) - would you still recommend the za13 or should i go for the za12?
With a 21cm length I think the za12 would be better. You would have to curl your fingers a lot to get a proper grip and it would likely start to feel uncomfortable and awkwardly small. I would recommend finding people with larger hands to get recommendations from because mouse size preferences are highly personal and varied.
@@KraftyCraftKraf thanks for the reply!
first of all for any hand size unless youre a baby, buy the za12, with its larger size you will aim much better with it (in video games), your aim will be smoother and more consistant. You wont feel as in control of the mouse like the with za13 but that feeling of control/preciseness is an illusion and does not mean your aiim is actually better. GPW and GPX are also very good.
@Og Shingo mate im max rank in 2 games and hold top 100 scores in aim trainers im knowlegable and youre not
@Og Shingo what game do you compete in, i would love too see
@@poiau7412 what is your hand size? Mine 18 x10 and i chosen between za12 and 13
my hands are smaller than yours and za12 is fine
@@poiau7412 did you use za13? And what about micro motion and vertical aim?
hi krafty i have 19x11 hands do you think the za13 would be too small for me? Ive used the xm1r before the only thing i didnt like about it is how the right side of the mouse has a small hump towards the front which causes some uncomfort on my ring finger
The za13 should be totally fine for you. I’ve heard of a lot of people with the same hand size that really enjoy the shape. I get what you’re saying about the xm1 and it’s something that bothers me as well. The za13 also has a flare in the same area but it’s much less severe so it shouldn’t be as awkward to hold in that regard.
When i designed my mouse i realized what i considered as a perfect shape sas basicaly a za 13
Same but Idk about the build quality
Is this mouse out? I can't find it anywhere
It’s out, but zowie has had major issues with production and hasn’t been able to restock them since release so you can’t find a new one anywhere.
imagine this wireless 50g ish
Imagine you wake up
How did you think to tighten the screws? That’s actually 300IQ
Nah I'm dumb as shit, I didn't think of that. There was a rare useful commenter that recommended the fix on my first video and it actually worked a little.
@@KraftyCraftKraf Holy shit, a useful commenter is like seeing a unicorn. Value that person for life.
Still on the vaxee pa!! 0.0 has it replaced the xten for you as fav?
I think the xten is still my favorite pad but I'm a little lost in the sauce with mouse pads right now. It took me three weeks of exclusive use to get used to the gpz1 because its so unique. The process broke me a little and every pad feels super weird right now and I got some new pads in so it'll take a bit to recalibrate and figure things out. I should be able to figure things out and find out what I like the best in a couple of days to a week.
@@KraftyCraftKraf Cool haha. NGL i really wanna try those mud pads like GPZ1 or Jupiter with glass skates 0.0
@@I3asyl same. I picked up some of the lethal skates in the small drop they did a couple of days ago and I’m looking foreword to trying them out on different pads.
Hey crafty, I have a ec1 but I play claw with palm on mouse I'm stuck between the ZA12c and the ZA11c. I have 21x11 cm hands any suggestions?
The za11 is absolutely massive so I'll likely feel clunky even with your size hands. The za12 should be fine for creating a lot of palm contact in a claw grip style.
What's ur hand size?
18 * 9-9.5 cm
Totally forgot to mention that in the video. Just added it to the description, thanks for reminding me.
Good review, but your akward hand movement kept distracting me. I initially thought you were doing sign language for the hearing impaired but I guess not lol
if you genuinely thought he was doing sign language then you need to seek help
@@dae8894 relax it’s not that deep
@@dae8894I wonder what you think about this salty comment now 8 months later when you have turned 13
If u have small hands only.
hey, well produced review! It would be better if you avoid sounding a bit mumbly at times.
mz1 next :)
NY gift for first comment? :D
I'd make you a bowl of pozole if I could
Palm
What are your weird ass hand movements stop dat
NO! FAKE NEWS! ALL CSGO PLAYER USE Zowie EC2-B AND EVERY BOD Y KNOW CS GO PLAYER BEST AIMER...
THIS MEAN Zowie EC2-B BEST MOUSE.. NOT ZA13 ..
S1mple uses the gpx
@@Wyloaim hes sponser by them right
Whats your main mouse atm @kraftycraft ?