I think one overlooked quality is the way a camera keeps information when it’s near clipping. One thing I really like about Arri is that their camera’s seem to keep the right color when it’s near clipping, that alone in my opinion makes it very organic and ‘film’ like. Also the way it clips is a very smooth transient. So to me the number ‘dynamic range’ is very unspecific. It’s like saying a speaker has a range of 20hz to 20khz so it’s a very good speaker. You can’t determine it by that alone. You also need the specific response across the whole frequency range etc.
The content of your videos not bad but your terminology is super confusing. you say you're overexposing by a stop but then describe it with a stop under.
Your content is 🔥 i tend to struggle with how to keep the video short enough to get the point and how much detail to show. So to try and fix the confusion, I made a video going through the process, which is super boring I'm sure but to your point tries to fix the confusion that I caused.
@@carlosq00 but overexposure has nothing to do with total DR , if you take a spot meter and do a measurement of shadows and highlights of that scene you should get at least 14 stops of difference.
Assuming that we always make sure to have the correct exposure, I am more interested in the camera latitude: How much detail I can keep in the hight lights and shadows at the same time.
Sure, and that takes knowing the correct exposure for each sensor. In my experience, URSA, be it 12k or 4.6k, looks better with 1-2 stops over and becomes horrendous when it's under as is with most cameras, probably with the exception of Sony which is geared towards videographers on it's "affordable" range.
Carlos Quintero I’m doing more deep dive into Red systems and APIs as well as Canon’s and I’m impressed with both for specialized VFX and interactive content. The C500 mk 2 does a better job than the Arri LF in shadow recovery in many cases. People need to “level up” and understand their cameras deeply-it takes take, but it will save time and make money one set.
Hey Carlos, in the test I had someone do for me, we placed both the Pocket 6k and the Arri Alexa at iso 800 and both at F8 aperture, 7 stops overexposed. Straight from the image, the Alexa had about 1 more stop of DR in the highlights. However, once I clicked highlight recovery, the Pocket 6k outperformed the Alexa by 2 stops in highlight latitude. What are your thoughts on this? The footage is available for download
Yes but highlight recovery is not actually using real information but "recovery" from less overexposed color channels. So it is cool but no really true recovery.
The numbers don't really matter until you see the results. Red claims 16+ stops on paper and the alexa has 14 yet arri is the industry standard and generally known to have more latitude. The sony a7iii has 15 stops on paper but in reality it really doesn't, you can't judge from the spec sheet alone. The likes of the bmpcc6k says 13 stops on paper but in tests performs extremely well compared to the alexa which on paper has more. If BM are as humble with this camera's DR on paper than they were with the pocket 6k then i think this could be huge.
Great content as usual bro! You have been crushing it! However, the Usra Mini 12K wasn't meant for normal filmmaking situations that you would use a Red or even the Ursa Mini G2 for. It was stated that it was really might for green screen and CGI work. I Do think the "hype" s what WE make of it and not the original intent of why the camera was created. Camera heads just love to talk about gear so much that announcements like that one becomes a "thing". But just my 2 cents. Oh and EXCELLENT RED EXAMPLE FOOTAGE BRO!!!!!!
Great video, and thing are put in a simple way for everyone to understand. Totally agree people are caught in the hype of number 8K, 12K, nK, 14 stop of DR, 15 stop, n stop of DR, number of megapixel, recordings time... but often they either don’t know the basic concept or forget it! That why we end up in this controversy with the Canon EOS R5... people just don’t understand those are tools with strength and weakness, with technology limitations often due to law of physics, but people have expectations that the technology will work as in they imagined it, regardless of any common sense! All those new 2020 achievements are just bringing thing in the right direction and as you said we just need to choose the right tool to do the right job, or if cannot afford the right tool get creative with the limitations of the tool we have by learning it in and out, and how to get around some of those limitations
In the case with overheating Sony, Fuji and now Canon we do not deal with weaknesses but with design which is made to overheat in exact moment! This tools are just crippled from engineering point by design not by technology limitation! Which is very brazenly from all this japan vendors and their marketing policy!
Excellent video, thank you! While these times are certainly unbelievably exciting, as someone who's in the market for a new camera (primarily for film) I'm finding it quite excruciating 😂 This URSA does seem to have a very specific audience in mind i.e high end DOPs who are working in tightly controlled environments... is DR as important to these guys as it is to lower budget productions (genuine question, no implications intended)? Also, the idea of an ecosystem that makes it possible to edit 12k (b)raw on a laptop is insane. To me that's as mindblowing as the idea of shooting 12k in the first place. Then there's the ability to shoot 8k and 4k raw too, because of the sensor design. Did I understand that right? As far as I'm aware, usually raw is only possible at the "native" resolution of the sensor. The idea of being able to shoot raw at multiple resolutions seems like another "out of this world" feature. Black magic say that they're releasing the footage for us play with, it would be amazing if you could have a play with it and let us know how you think it holds up against the c500 mkii, RED helium and R5??
with the ursa 12k, the 12k is not the selling point, that is a by-product of the special new sensor technology. you are just defending you 50k+ purchase from all the new budget cameras.
that is not true at all. I support what Blackmagic Design is doing and applaud them for building an incredible ecosystem which is the real news here not this new camera. New cameras come and go all the time, ecosystems thrive once users accept them and allow them to become part of their workflow. Make no mistake about it, I don't have brand loyalty to RED or any other camera, I simply choose the tool that is best for the project that I am working on at that very specific moment in time, with one very simple goal. Making Money!
Great video as always. You make some valid points. However, let's not forgot that Kodak 5247 film stock that was used to shoot movies like Rocky and ET, The Extra Terrestrial, only had 9 stops of dynamic range. The most that modern film stock has is 13 stops of dynamic range. It's how film renders those tones that's important. In digital motion picture cameras, motion cadence is also important. Alexa and RED have the most film-like cadence, Blackmagic is next, but cameras like the Z-Cams look like video. Cheers.
So in short stops aren't really what people think, hence the 12k with 14 stops is good enough, it is not just the 12k, the camera is a beast and it costs a fraction of a red. This sounds like Nvidia 2080TI vs the 3000 series, whoever got a 2080TI in summer 2020 will hit their head on the wall :D
Can you please explain what is going on in your test? You say you're going from f/1.4 to f/2 and that you're "overexposing by 1 stop," but if you closed the lens down, you'd be underexposing. Furthermore, you can tell by the lack of change to the background elements that you aren't actually stopping down the lens (even though you're reporting it's being shot at f/16). But nothing else in your presented data has changed, either - the ISO remains the same throughout. So are you just making the light brighter? It's weird that you're reporting a lens aperture when clearly you aren't changing the aperture. Please help explain more, thanks!
Carlos Quintero thanks, I appreciate the quick reply and since you had that video handy, it sounds like I wasn't the only one that was confused. :) I think saying "we changed the intensity of the key light and then brought the exposure back to normal in post" would make it super clear for everyone from the beginning. Also, shouldn't it say "+1 EV," "+2 EV," etc. instead of "f/1.4," "f/2," etc.? The f-stop value is always f/1.4, so I think that's where the confusion comes from. I understand that there's an equivalent "f/8" worth of light in the setting at that moment, but when you're displaying f/8 on the screen, it implies that's the camera setting (especially because right below it you're showing ISO 800, which is also a camera setting). Just some food for thought. 👍
@@daltonrandall4348 He names light intensity according to the light meter indication. Nevertheless I'm not sure the test is meaningful. If you only up the intensity of the key light without adjusting the fill, ugly contrasts will be created independently of dynamic range. Was there any secondary correction performed on the face? If not, we don't know what the camera can actually retain. Also, 5 stops distance from middle gray is 10 stops of dynamic range right?
antonarap I get ya, it's just somewhat arbitrary. What is an "f/4 amount of light?" It depends on your ISO, your shutter speed the sensitivity of the particular sensor... many things. Just saying "this scene is f/4" when the camera is actually set to f/1.4 is confusing at best and almost makes no sense when you really boil it down. Saying we're now at "+2 EV" means that whatever the parameters of this particular situation are, we are now exactly 2 stops overexposed from our base. That is way clearer and easier to understand.
Carlos, this is actually a question about your previous video on Canon FD lenses. I've noticed very little focus breathing on these lenses. I wonder if you experienced the same thing on your 28mm? I haven't tested them, but I have two of those same lenses. Also, my experience is the 50mm 1.4 is a better, sharper lens than the 1.2, plus, it's a lot less expensive. I've been shooting FD lenses for several years.
yes to everything you stated. did you convert your FD lenses to EF? I am trying to sort out how to go in that direction so I don't have to use adapters.
@@carlosq00 I've never bothered. The reason is I do a lot of shooting in APS-C--like on the Black Magic 6k and Fuji X-T4, and every once in a while I'll want to use a speed booster to increase my angle of view as well as get more light. I don't and can't shoot on the level or have the standards you do, so for general shooting speed boosters work pretty well. The IBIS of the Fuji lets me shoot on the speed booster without electronics. If you buy more I do have advice. I've been shooting FD lenses several years, so maybe I can be helpful. The FD 85 1.8 is really excellent, as is the 100 and 135...and they're fast, even without a speed booster. I have a guy in Ft.Worth who works on them. If I get a good lens without the proper resistance for smooth focus pulls I give them to him. Right now I've got an excellent 1.8 but I want more resistance in the focus ring. All these lenses are excellent---and I think I've used them all: 17mm 4.0, 20mm. The 24 is an excellent lens, and I like the 35 as well. The problem with the wider ones is getting a focus ring that has too little resistance, and that makes fine focus pulls difficult. I shot a lot of hand held, so the 85 1.2, while good, is too heavy for me. If you have 5 minutes to waste here's a video I did using mostly FD lenses and the Nikon Z6 about a year ago. Music is from Claude Debussy's Danse Profane. It's called Shakespeare's Dream ruclips.net/video/_1TmFvvFs4M/видео.html&feature=emb_logo
Thanks Carlos! Great video. It’s so easy to get caught up in the hype. Do you think a Black Magic 6k Pro is a good choice for stock video footage? I never had a camera without autofocus before but figured i‘m just gonna get into it and if i really needed it i could use the raveneye of the DJI ronin rs2, no?
*It is interesting to note RED not only lists their cameras as having 16+ stops of DR, they also use a recording Codec that is 16 Bit, while ProRes and Black Magic BRAW only use 12 Bits of processing colour preciscion. BRAW does grade close to RED CODE, but the colour science in RED CODE does win by a narrow margin. Having written such, I will still go for the URSA Mini Pro 12K, since it has a great look all of its own and the extra future proofing 12K resolution. Also the price point of the URSA 12K is just too good to ignore.👍*
@@carlosq00 Yes, BMD is getting much more consistent with their QC - Especially on their 12K URSA, which seems to be their flagship product. I know they had a software glitch where cameras would suddenly start rolling, or become unresponsive, but then they released an intermediary bug fix which illiminated these issues, then came up with a full update and I haven't heard of anymore issues with the 12K URSA since.
Yes that's what I'd like to know! This was very confusing. I think he might have increased the light by a stop each time and left the camera at 1.4???? Then tried to recover???
@@carlosq00 Goes beyond that. 8K consumer content will become mainstream very soon. TV set manufacturers need it, Netflix needs it and H.266 makes it possible. Producers need to future proof their content NOW, imagine the new James Bond film becoming obsolete before it's even out. So 8K is a must, but with 12K you can reframe, cutting down shooting times significantly: You dont have to shoot both that MCU and CU in order to choose the right framing in post. As BM's competition has been caught with their pants down, I believe that the BM12K will become the go-to film and mega-series camera for the years to come. DPs daring to ask for a different model will be insta-fired by the executive producer. At this point BM could easily charge 40 thousand for the 12K, and refraining from doing so is a testament to the company's respect to itself and to its principals.
Carlos, I really like your videos, experience you share and work that you do but ........ this video seems like epic fail and please consider to remake it. Let me try to explain. What actually you did is not measure full dynamic range but how much DR you have left for the highlights! So it is normal to get few stops more before you get overexposed. You have explained this in the start of the video DR is is from darkest shadow ( black ) to highest highlight ( white ). Then you start measuring from scene in which you have already a lot of highlights!!! So you are not starting from 0 but from 10-12 EV!!! If you want to measure full DR not just highlights recovery you need to start from black! So highest highlight in your scene need to go almost black. Then you need to start pushing light up and count how many f numbers you will get before over exposure. And yes this is useless to be done with model and complex scene, your chart is enough. Actually on your color chart you can clearly see that you already have some DR used because you have from black to white exposed = some DR already used for this scene!!! So not really sure how you expect to get 16 more steps above your current DR?!?! Yes you found your breaking point but this is not the DR of the camera. This is just how much you have left for the highlights exposure. If you want to go from f1.4 to F256 you need to have your darkest tones at f1.4 and your brightest at f256. Not highlights on f1.4 and then more highlights up to f256 :). So you get ~5 stops more on your scene which we can consider is around 10-12EV = 15-17 stops of DR, which is actually close to the advertised.
I’m actually thinking and considering deleting my RUclips channel as well as all my social media. The best advice I could ever give is to get out there and do it, because no matter what, how I learn, how I measure, how I make money or run my company will never be the way someone else does it which really means I am only destined to fail and let people like you down time and time again. The decision is up in the air for all that I have done and may do moving forward I am sorry. Please consider settling me right on your own channel and know that I will support you 💯 as evolution allow for the innovation to thrive and correct the past.
@@carlosq00 No need for sarcasm, just measure it properly, or say you made mistake, I think this not a problem for real professional like you. I am doing mistakes all the time, so I do not expect from you to be perfect. But trying to overexpose +16 stops when you have already exposed........... And btw no need to invent new ways of doing it. I am really learning from you BTW!
Pregi You trust me I am not being sarcastic it’s all good I don’t make a living off of RUclips I run a company and 13 person crew and that may be a better place for me to focus my energy to allow my crew to thrive rather than taking time from them to feed this selfish RUclips channel
And who cares? Mostly of the inside scene are lighted at 10-12 stops dynamic range, a VFX set even with less dynamic range, is not a documentary camera that you need the maximum dynamic range is possible
Sometimes red looks more like a oversharp phone image too much hdr happening and remember film is 13 stops so to have more moves away from filmic look. if I was you I would sell my red now! they will be worth nothing soon
Ok, so maybe I’m missing something, in optical/mechanical terms, overexposure happens when the physical lens aperture goes in the opposite direction of what you had and the plane of focus shifts (which didn't happen in this demo.) Were you upping the EV gain or ISO and not changing the actual aperture? The other thing is if you were doing it post ProRes 4:2:2 is not a RAW codec the last time I checked. Even ProRes RAW has issues grading to and from extreme exposure areas, so maybe it's more of a codec issue you’re contending with, or maybe ProRes 4:2:2 is exacerbating the issue?
It seems like he's referring to f-stops not specifically as the lenses f-stop, but just in the general amount of light, like if you light-metered. Looks like he's adjusting exposure with ND filters. And then he says he recorded it in r3d, and then he exported in ProRes 4:2:2
John Newton yeah, I processed that right after the video ended and in the middle of me typing. The large type don't of f-stop change from shot to shot with no change in focus distance threw me. I hadn't paid attention to that too much recently in RAW processing, but that terminology really should be changed. The more I think about it even if ProRes 4:2:2 made the perceived dynamic range worse it wouldn't have been that much worse it least in this kind of low contrast set.
Hey Carlos, thanks for sharing. Im confused, why is the f/8 image so much brighter than the f/1.4? Isn't 1.4 a wider open aperture (more light) and f/8 a smaller aperture (less light). Thanks again!
@@carlosq00 I rarely ever shoot overexposed. Sometimes if there's changing light from the sun going behind clouds or whatever, that's when over exposure becomes an issue. But coming from 4:2:0 days I've gotten to despise over exposure because it's impossible to fix whereas I can pull back the underexposed shots and get better results. So would love to see that, out of curiosity only. Nothing else.
I’ve thought about this a bit more and there is a big elephant in the room MORIE! The RGB sensor is going to be potentially more sensitive to this and changing resolution without cropping is going to present issues. There is processing going on at the sensor, making this not true “raw”. BRaw was never true raw anyway just like ProResRaw is not actual raw. Red RD3 files are essentially a true sensor read file with minimal file. And yes I’m addicted to MONSTRO! We have Arri LF to work with too! I’m curious about BM 12K for VFX work in virtual set work.
Carlos you're test is nice . But black magic never broken promises of many top end dop's & director ... Image quality (4.6k) is awesome than arri LF ... Making 12k at 14 dynamic is not an easy for manufacturers ... But we have to appreciate what BMD has done... 14 Stop is excellent .... Arri has 14 Stop ... Many Hollywood films shot arri .. We don't think BMD has hype... They researched what other manufacturers hadn't.... I even luv canon C500 ii when you compare to red 8k ... C500ii has 15+. Red has 16.5+ Practical canon won in overall ...
This gets tiring. 16 stops, 14 stops, 13 stops.... So many reds out there and so much of it looks like a dslr. With 13 stops you should be able to anything. Have you checked the camera Fincher used to shoot Zodiac? Google it.
well I agree, the hype is real for the 12k, but it has its reasons. DR is great, probably the most important thing when it comes to lower budgets/indies, cos we often shoot in terrible location, no control lighting whatsoever, and when you shot with DSLR like the canons like me you know how much time you wasted trying to recover what should have been "ok" with a more decent DR. but the 12k is clearly aimed at high end production, actually no one in indies/low budget need that camera to be fair. videos we produce mostly end up on IG or youtube at best, basically full hd. but the aim is clearly VFX, studio shoots and such.. and that's when DR doesn't actually matter all that much, 14/15/16, if your DP is doing a proper job you won't see a difference at the end of the day but your VFX team will, your post prod process will be better with more latitude. So yeah the 12K ursa is overhyped, not because it's not worth it, just because the ones hyped by this product actually probably don't need it whatsoever Also 12k ursa is at 10k price range, helium 8K.. not exactly But for most I still think the ursa G2 is the best camera to go for, unless they decide to release an upgraded version, like 6/8k, keeping the 15DR of the G2, global shutter, same price tag, THEN the hype would be completely justified!
The greatest films of all time were shot with less than 10 stops of dynamic range. Dynamic range doesn't make you a better filmmaker, it makes you a lazy one.
SUPPLEMENTAL Video with commentary uploaded in 8K so you can pixel peep. ➡ ruclips.net/video/AcV4CH-KXgM/видео.html
I think one overlooked quality is the way a camera keeps information when it’s near clipping. One thing I really like about Arri is that their camera’s seem to keep the right color when it’s near clipping, that alone in my opinion makes it very organic and ‘film’ like. Also the way it clips is a very smooth transient. So to me the number ‘dynamic range’ is very unspecific. It’s like saying a speaker has a range of 20hz to 20khz so it’s a very good speaker. You can’t determine it by that alone. You also need the specific response across the whole frequency range etc.
The content of your videos not bad but your terminology is super confusing. you say you're overexposing by a stop but then describe it with a stop under.
Your content is 🔥 i tend to struggle with how to keep the video short enough to get the point and how much detail to show. So to try and fix the confusion, I made a video going through the process, which is super boring I'm sure but to your point tries to fix the confusion that I caused.
16stops of DR does not mean you can overexpose 16 stops...
haha, exactly what I said in the video....
@@carlosq00 but overexposure has nothing to do with total DR , if you take a spot meter and do a measurement of shadows and highlights of that scene you should get at least 14 stops of difference.
Assuming that we always make sure to have the correct exposure, I am more interested in the camera latitude: How much detail I can keep in the hight lights and shadows at the same time.
that is what I tend to judge camera and sensors by for sure.
Sure, and that takes knowing the correct exposure for each sensor. In my experience, URSA, be it 12k or 4.6k, looks better with 1-2 stops over and becomes horrendous when it's under as is with most cameras, probably with the exception of Sony which is geared towards videographers on it's "affordable" range.
This is good. Wish you went 5 stops under exposed too to see how far you can push it in the low lights too...
What about 18 stops of Dynamic Range? They’re just numbers until we put them to the test!
So true...
Carlos Quintero I’m doing more deep dive into Red systems and APIs as well as Canon’s and I’m impressed with both for specialized VFX and interactive content. The C500 mk 2 does a better job than the Arri LF in shadow recovery in many cases. People need to “level up” and understand their cameras deeply-it takes take, but it will save time and make money one set.
Despite the controversial resolution, I’m excited to see their new color science that’s supposed to have smoother highlight roll off
same - and the way BRAW is maturing is also something to keep an eye on...
The possibility to read those file straight on a laptop is even more impressive knowing it’s 80M pixel per frame at 60fps, that a lot of data.
Hey Carlos, in the test I had someone do for me, we placed both the Pocket 6k and the Arri Alexa at iso 800 and both at F8 aperture, 7 stops overexposed. Straight from the image, the Alexa had about 1 more stop of DR in the highlights. However, once I clicked highlight recovery, the Pocket 6k outperformed the Alexa by 2 stops in highlight latitude. What are your thoughts on this? The footage is available for download
The highlight recovering option in Resolve for DNG and BRAW is true Blackmagic 💯🎥🦾🔥
Yes but highlight recovery is not actually using real information but "recovery" from less overexposed color channels. So it is cool but no really true recovery.
@@pregiyou4989 yes I gather that. But it works really well, it's like a magic button
The numbers don't really matter until you see the results. Red claims 16+ stops on paper and the alexa has 14 yet arri is the industry standard and generally known to have more latitude. The sony a7iii has 15 stops on paper but in reality it really doesn't, you can't judge from the spec sheet alone. The likes of the bmpcc6k says 13 stops on paper but in tests performs extremely well compared to the alexa which on paper has more. If BM are as humble with this camera's DR on paper than they were with the pocket 6k then i think this could be huge.
if they are a solid 14 useable stops of DR it is huge no doubt
@@carlosq00 time will tell! :)
I wish there was the same dynamic range test for the ursa 12k to see how they compare.
Great video man! Always insightful information that's straight to the point. Just subscribed!
Thank you!
Great content as usual bro! You have been crushing it! However, the Usra Mini 12K wasn't meant for normal filmmaking situations that you would use a Red or even the Ursa Mini G2 for. It was stated that it was really might for green screen and CGI work. I Do think the "hype" s what WE make of it and not the original intent of why the camera was created. Camera heads just love to talk about gear so much that announcements like that one becomes a "thing". But just my 2 cents. Oh and EXCELLENT RED EXAMPLE FOOTAGE BRO!!!!!!
Great point, CGI work just got a huge bump in potential!
We have to appreciate what BMD has done...
@@carlosq00 Carlos i don't know y u sending wrong message to public over BMD camera...
Dynamic range is definitely more important then resolution, but the most are only discussing resolution 🤷
Highlight rolloff is also growing on the want-list for me.
for sure! 👍
14 dynamic is more vibrant...
Arri has 14 dynamic...
JJack absolutely
14 dynamic is vibrant my dear
Great video, and thing are put in a simple way for everyone to understand.
Totally agree people are caught in the hype of number 8K, 12K, nK, 14 stop of DR, 15 stop, n stop of DR, number of megapixel, recordings time... but often they either don’t know the basic concept or forget it! That why we end up in this controversy with the Canon EOS R5... people just don’t understand those are tools with strength and weakness, with technology limitations often due to law of physics, but people have expectations that the technology will work as in they imagined it, regardless of any common sense!
All those new 2020 achievements are just bringing thing in the right direction and as you said we just need to choose the right tool to do the right job, or if cannot afford the right tool get creative with the limitations of the tool we have by learning it in and out, and how to get around some of those limitations
well put Jean Chindeko
In the case with overheating Sony, Fuji and now Canon we do not deal with weaknesses but with design which is made to overheat in exact moment! This tools are just crippled from engineering point by design not by technology limitation! Which is very brazenly from all this japan vendors and their marketing policy!
Always good insight. Thanks.
🙏🏽🎥🦾
Excellent video, thank you! While these times are certainly unbelievably exciting, as someone who's in the market for a new camera (primarily for film) I'm finding it quite excruciating 😂 This URSA does seem to have a very specific audience in mind i.e high end DOPs who are working in tightly controlled environments... is DR as important to these guys as it is to lower budget productions (genuine question, no implications intended)? Also, the idea of an ecosystem that makes it possible to edit 12k (b)raw on a laptop is insane. To me that's as mindblowing as the idea of shooting 12k in the first place. Then there's the ability to shoot 8k and 4k raw too, because of the sensor design. Did I understand that right? As far as I'm aware, usually raw is only possible at the "native" resolution of the sensor. The idea of being able to shoot raw at multiple resolutions seems like another "out of this world" feature. Black magic say that they're releasing the footage for us play with, it would be amazing if you could have a play with it and let us know how you think it holds up against the c500 mkii, RED helium and R5??
the ecosystem is very exciting for sure
12k raw data is 500 mb ..
Arri 3k raw data is around 2.5-3gb/sec..
500mb /sec data we can make very easily on Apple laptop...
thanks for sharing! very interesting topic.
Glad you enjoyed it!
with the ursa 12k, the 12k is not the selling point, that is a by-product of the special new sensor technology. you are just defending you 50k+ purchase from all the new budget cameras.
that is not true at all. I support what Blackmagic Design is doing and applaud them for building an incredible ecosystem which is the real news here not this new camera. New cameras come and go all the time, ecosystems thrive once users accept them and allow them to become part of their workflow. Make no mistake about it, I don't have brand loyalty to RED or any other camera, I simply choose the tool that is best for the project that I am working on at that very specific moment in time, with one very simple goal. Making Money!
Came here to see comparisons with URSA 12K footage. Didn't see any. Misleading Title
Great video as always. You make some valid points. However, let's not forgot that Kodak 5247 film stock that was used to shoot movies like Rocky and ET, The Extra Terrestrial, only had 9 stops of dynamic range. The most that modern film stock has is 13 stops of dynamic range. It's how film renders those tones that's important. In digital motion picture cameras, motion cadence is also important. Alexa and RED have the most film-like cadence, Blackmagic is next, but cameras like the Z-Cams look like video. Cheers.
great points 👍
BW film has 15 stops.
So in short stops aren't really what people think, hence the 12k with 14 stops is good enough, it is not just the 12k, the camera is a beast and it costs a fraction of a red.
This sounds like Nvidia 2080TI vs the 3000 series, whoever got a 2080TI in summer 2020 will hit their head on the wall :D
Can you please explain what is going on in your test? You say you're going from f/1.4 to f/2 and that you're "overexposing by 1 stop," but if you closed the lens down, you'd be underexposing. Furthermore, you can tell by the lack of change to the background elements that you aren't actually stopping down the lens (even though you're reporting it's being shot at f/16). But nothing else in your presented data has changed, either - the ISO remains the same throughout. So are you just making the light brighter? It's weird that you're reporting a lens aperture when clearly you aren't changing the aperture. Please help explain more, thanks!
Here you go ruclips.net/video/ZC_WTlOEdRk/видео.html
Carlos Quintero thanks, I appreciate the quick reply and since you had that video handy, it sounds like I wasn't the only one that was confused. :) I think saying "we changed the intensity of the key light and then brought the exposure back to normal in post" would make it super clear for everyone from the beginning. Also, shouldn't it say "+1 EV," "+2 EV," etc. instead of "f/1.4," "f/2," etc.? The f-stop value is always f/1.4, so I think that's where the confusion comes from. I understand that there's an equivalent "f/8" worth of light in the setting at that moment, but when you're displaying f/8 on the screen, it implies that's the camera setting (especially because right below it you're showing ISO 800, which is also a camera setting). Just some food for thought. 👍
@@daltonrandall4348 He names light intensity according to the light meter indication. Nevertheless I'm not sure the test is meaningful. If you only up the intensity of the key light without adjusting the fill, ugly contrasts will be created independently of dynamic range. Was there any secondary correction performed on the face? If not, we don't know what the camera can actually retain. Also, 5 stops distance from middle gray is 10 stops of dynamic range right?
antonarap I get ya, it's just somewhat arbitrary. What is an "f/4 amount of light?" It depends on your ISO, your shutter speed the sensitivity of the particular sensor... many things. Just saying "this scene is f/4" when the camera is actually set to f/1.4 is confusing at best and almost makes no sense when you really boil it down. Saying we're now at "+2 EV" means that whatever the parameters of this particular situation are, we are now exactly 2 stops overexposed from our base. That is way clearer and easier to understand.
Carlos, this is actually a question about your previous video on Canon FD lenses. I've noticed very little focus breathing on these lenses. I wonder if you experienced the same thing on your 28mm? I haven't tested them, but I have two of those same lenses. Also, my experience is the 50mm 1.4 is a better, sharper lens than the 1.2, plus, it's a lot less expensive. I've been shooting FD lenses for several years.
yes to everything you stated. did you convert your FD lenses to EF? I am trying to sort out how to go in that direction so I don't have to use adapters.
@@carlosq00 I've never bothered. The reason is I do a lot of shooting in APS-C--like on the Black Magic 6k and Fuji X-T4, and every once in a while I'll want to use a speed booster to increase my angle of view as well as get more light. I don't and can't shoot on the level or have the standards you do, so for general shooting speed boosters work pretty well. The IBIS of the Fuji lets me shoot on the speed booster without electronics.
If you buy more I do have advice. I've been shooting FD lenses several years, so maybe I can be helpful.
The FD 85 1.8 is really excellent, as is the 100 and 135...and they're fast, even without a speed booster. I have a guy in Ft.Worth who works on them. If I get a good lens without the proper resistance for smooth focus pulls I give them to him. Right now I've got an excellent 1.8 but I want more resistance in the focus ring.
All these lenses are excellent---and I think I've used them all: 17mm 4.0, 20mm. The 24 is an excellent lens, and I like the 35 as well. The problem with the wider ones is getting a focus ring that has too little resistance, and that makes fine focus pulls difficult.
I shot a lot of hand held, so the 85 1.2, while good, is too heavy for me.
If you have 5 minutes to waste here's a video I did using mostly FD lenses and the Nikon Z6 about a year ago. Music is from Claude Debussy's Danse Profane. It's called Shakespeare's Dream
ruclips.net/video/_1TmFvvFs4M/видео.html&feature=emb_logo
Thanks Carlos!
Great video. It’s so easy to get caught up in the hype.
Do you think a Black Magic 6k Pro is a good choice for stock video footage?
I never had a camera without autofocus before but figured i‘m just gonna get into it and if i really needed it i could use the raveneye of the DJI ronin rs2, no?
Yes the Blackmagic 6K pocket is a good camera for stock video and a lot more.
*It is interesting to note RED not only lists their cameras as having 16+ stops of DR, they also use a recording Codec that is 16 Bit, while ProRes and Black Magic BRAW only use 12 Bits of processing colour preciscion. BRAW does grade close to RED CODE, but the colour science in RED CODE does win by a narrow margin. Having written such, I will still go for the URSA Mini Pro 12K, since it has a great look all of its own and the extra future proofing 12K resolution. Also the price point of the URSA 12K is just too good to ignore.👍*
Blackmagic has nailed the disruptor market. I wish their quality control would improve so that more of us could trust them 100% of the time.
@@carlosq00 Yes, BMD is getting much more consistent with their QC - Especially on their 12K URSA, which seems to be their flagship product. I know they had a software glitch where cameras would suddenly start rolling, or become unresponsive, but then they released an intermediary bug fix which illiminated these issues, then came up with a full update and I haven't heard of anymore issues with the 12K URSA since.
Well done Carlos... !
Thanks 🙏🏽 🎥🦾
With the increasing F/stops... it's 'under' exposing by a stop... what am I missing. Do you mean underexposing then lifting a stop in post...?
Yes that's what I'd like to know! This was very confusing. I think he might have increased the light by a stop each time and left the camera at 1.4???? Then tried to recover???
Thank you for this post. Do you think BM 12K is a big peach? Pretty at first glance but lacking flavor.
I think that if you work in VFX the 12K BRAW makes your project a lot more affordable and adds a great deal of flexibility.
Carlos Quintero After watching their demo I can agree with you. Very disruptive they are 🤔
@@carlosq00 Goes beyond that. 8K consumer content will become mainstream very soon. TV set manufacturers need it, Netflix needs it and H.266 makes it possible. Producers need to future proof their content NOW, imagine the new James Bond film becoming obsolete before it's even out. So 8K is a must, but with 12K you can reframe, cutting down shooting times significantly: You dont have to shoot both that MCU and CU in order to choose the right framing in post. As BM's competition has been caught with their pants down, I believe that the BM12K will become the go-to film and mega-series camera for the years to come. DPs daring to ask for a different model will be insta-fired by the executive producer. At this point BM could easily charge 40 thousand for the 12K, and refraining from doing so is a testament to the company's respect to itself and to its principals.
Amazing work as always, Carlos. I learn so much from you. Who needs film school? Lol.
I appreciate that!
Good video Carlos as always. Can you please do this test with Canon C500 Mark II as well?
Coming soon!
Carlos, I really like your videos, experience you share and work that you do but ........ this video seems like epic fail and please consider to remake it. Let me try to explain. What actually you did is not measure full dynamic range but how much DR you have left for the highlights! So it is normal to get few stops more before you get overexposed. You have explained this in the start of the video DR is is from darkest shadow ( black ) to highest highlight ( white ).
Then you start measuring from scene in which you have already a lot of highlights!!! So you are not starting from 0 but from 10-12 EV!!! If you want to measure full DR not just highlights recovery you need to start from black! So highest highlight in your scene need to go almost black. Then you need to start pushing light up and count how many f numbers you will get before over exposure. And yes this is useless to be done with model and complex scene, your chart is enough. Actually on your color chart you can clearly see that you already have some DR used because you have from black to white exposed = some DR already used for this scene!!! So not really sure how you expect to get 16 more steps above your current DR?!?!
Yes you found your breaking point but this is not the DR of the camera. This is just how much you have left for the highlights exposure.
If you want to go from f1.4 to F256 you need to have your darkest tones at f1.4 and your brightest at f256. Not highlights on f1.4 and then more highlights up to f256 :).
So you get ~5 stops more on your scene which we can consider is around 10-12EV = 15-17 stops of DR, which is actually close to the advertised.
👊🏽 thanks
I’m actually thinking and considering deleting my RUclips channel as well as all my social media. The best advice I could ever give is to get out there and do it, because no matter what, how I learn, how I measure, how I make money or run my company will never be the way someone else does it which really means I am only destined to fail and let people like you down time and time again. The decision is up in the air for all that I have done and may do moving forward I am sorry. Please consider settling me right on your own channel and know that I will support you 💯 as evolution allow for the innovation to thrive and correct the past.
@@carlosq00 No need for sarcasm, just measure it properly, or say you made mistake, I think this not a problem for real professional like you. I am doing mistakes all the time, so I do not expect from you to be perfect. But trying to overexpose +16 stops when you have already exposed........... And btw no need to invent new ways of doing it.
I am really learning from you BTW!
Pregi You trust me I am not being sarcastic it’s all good I don’t make a living off of RUclips I run a company and 13 person crew and that may be a better place for me to focus my energy to allow my crew to thrive rather than taking time from them to feed this selfish RUclips channel
And who cares? Mostly of the inside scene are lighted at 10-12 stops dynamic range, a VFX set even with less dynamic range, is not a documentary camera that you need the maximum dynamic range is possible
i think i said that earlier, if you make a living from VFX work, Blackmagic 12K is a hell of an upgrade.
Thank you 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You’re welcome 😊
There will be a 2nd Ursa mini version without the 12k,just like they did for the pocket
it's possible, I am excited to see where BRAW or what BRAW grows into...
Fantastic info and work as always!
Thank you! Cheers!
Carlos, the new ursa can downsample 12k to 4k 3x3.
i have so many questions about this camera...can't wait to see how it performs out in the field
Sometimes red looks more like a oversharp phone image too much hdr happening and remember film is 13 stops so to have more moves away from filmic look. if I was you I would sell my red now! they will be worth nothing soon
Ok, so maybe I’m missing something, in optical/mechanical terms, overexposure happens when the physical lens aperture goes in the opposite direction of what you had and the plane of focus shifts (which didn't happen in this demo.)
Were you upping the EV gain or ISO and not changing the actual aperture?
The other thing is if you were doing it post ProRes 4:2:2 is not a RAW codec the last time I checked.
Even ProRes RAW has issues grading to and from extreme exposure areas, so maybe it's more of a codec issue you’re contending with, or maybe ProRes 4:2:2 is exacerbating the issue?
It seems like he's referring to f-stops not specifically as the lenses f-stop, but just in the general amount of light, like if you light-metered. Looks like he's adjusting exposure with ND filters. And then he says he recorded it in r3d, and then he exported in ProRes 4:2:2
John Newton yeah, I processed that right after the video ended and in the middle of me typing. The large type don't of f-stop change from shot to shot with no change in focus distance threw me. I hadn't paid attention to that too much recently in RAW processing, but that terminology really should be changed.
The more I think about it even if ProRes 4:2:2 made the perceived dynamic range worse it wouldn't have been that much worse it least in this kind of low contrast set.
F stops in light check this out ruclips.net/video/ZC_WTlOEdRk/видео.html
yes, Light value not lens ruclips.net/video/ZC_WTlOEdRk/видео.html
What do you think about the canon c300 mark iii?
Please do a c300 mark 3 review.. Will you be able to review the c300 iii
Hey Carlos, thanks for sharing. Im confused, why is the f/8 image so much brighter than the f/1.4? Isn't 1.4 a wider open aperture (more light) and f/8 a smaller aperture (less light). Thanks again!
Yep check this out ruclips.net/video/ZC_WTlOEdRk/видео.html
the skin tones are illuminated for a f8 exposure(more light on subject) but the image is captured with f1.4
@@ioanvalentinignat8289 Thank you for clarifying.
Hey Carlos, maybe i missed something but how are you over exposing by closing the aperture and keeping the iso the same?
Check this out ruclips.net/video/ZC_WTlOEdRk/видео.html
Carlos Quintero I’m on it.
What about an underexposure test?
Future video since most people only watch 5ish minutes worth per video... 😉
@@carlosq00 I rarely ever shoot overexposed. Sometimes if there's changing light from the sun going behind clouds or whatever, that's when over exposure becomes an issue. But coming from 4:2:0 days I've gotten to despise over exposure because it's impossible to fix whereas I can pull back the underexposed shots and get better results. So would love to see that, out of curiosity only. Nothing else.
12k for what? I have enough hassle with the size of the black magic 4k raw files.
haha that is so true
i wasn't expecting 12k ursa @ 9 995 usd
me neither
Dang. Comment section is sad. Get what fits your style and helps your creative expression.
I’ve thought about this a bit more and there is a big elephant in the room MORIE! The RGB sensor is going to be potentially more sensitive to this and changing resolution without cropping is going to present issues. There is processing going on at the sensor, making this not true “raw”. BRaw was never true raw anyway just like ProResRaw is not actual raw. Red RD3 files are essentially a true sensor read file with minimal file. And yes I’m addicted to MONSTRO! We have Arri LF to work with too! I’m curious about BM 12K for VFX work in virtual set work.
Carlos you're test is nice . But black magic never broken promises of many top end dop's & director ...
Image quality (4.6k) is awesome than arri LF ...
Making 12k at 14 dynamic is not an easy for manufacturers ...
But we have to appreciate what BMD has done...
14 Stop is excellent ....
Arri has 14 Stop ...
Many Hollywood films shot arri ..
We don't think BMD has hype...
They researched what other manufacturers hadn't....
I even luv canon C500 ii when you compare to red 8k ...
C500ii has 15+.
Red has 16.5+
Practical canon won in overall ...
arri undersell, the 65 has been measured to be at 17 stops, and that uses the same sensor as the other newer arris, and just stacked
@@jamesshort6856 wrong arri 65 has 14 dynamic
@@tokyoniki9200 that's what they say, not what the tests say
wish you would have done under exposure swell.
Different video
This gets tiring.
16 stops, 14 stops, 13 stops....
So many reds out there and so much of it looks like a dslr.
With 13 stops you should be able to anything. Have you checked the camera Fincher used to shoot Zodiac?
Google it.
i hear you
well I agree, the hype is real for the 12k, but it has its reasons.
DR is great, probably the most important thing when it comes to lower budgets/indies, cos we often shoot in terrible location, no control lighting whatsoever, and when you shot with DSLR like the canons like me you know how much time you wasted trying to recover what should have been "ok" with a more decent DR.
but the 12k is clearly aimed at high end production, actually no one in indies/low budget need that camera to be fair. videos we produce mostly end up on IG or youtube at best, basically full hd.
but the aim is clearly VFX, studio shoots and such.. and that's when DR doesn't actually matter all that much, 14/15/16, if your DP is doing a proper job you won't see a difference at the end of the day
but your VFX team will, your post prod process will be better with more latitude.
So yeah the 12K ursa is overhyped, not because it's not worth it, just because the ones hyped by this product actually probably don't need it whatsoever
Also 12k ursa is at 10k price range, helium 8K.. not exactly
But for most I still think the ursa G2 is the best camera to go for, unless they decide to release an upgraded version, like 6/8k, keeping the 15DR of the G2, global shutter, same price tag, THEN the hype would be completely justified!
No use for 12 megapixel video *ever*.
Not in my workflow but I don't work in the Hollywood green screen feature film business either...
The greatest films of all time were shot with less than 10 stops of dynamic range. Dynamic range doesn't make you a better filmmaker, it makes you a lazy one.
I don't get how more dynamic range equals a lazy filmmaker...