It's crazy what you put up with as a kid. I was like 14 when this came out and played it on Xbox 360. Never noticed any frame rate issues or anything. Just thought it looked and played amazing hahah
I remember thinking the same, in the 90’s with super Nintendo. I remember the games looking incredible. Same with first PlayStation. When I look back, I’m like, Jesus Christ 🤢 There’s 1 game from the 90’s that I still think looks great and has aged incredibly well and that’s street fighter 2.
I think we put up with it because we had no idea what FPS and stutters and bad performance were. We thought games just "existed", and that they were just played. At least for me.
@@grahamkelly8662 that is something else entirely, those games were designed to be displayed on a crt and take advantage of the blurring between 'pixels' to make better colors and pixel art. On these gen, consoles just ran games like shit, there was no reason to get a console at all compared to a pc. Obviously not the same nowadays due to the pricing changes between the consoles and pc.
The big one for me was Fallout 4 on Xbox One. The performance was terrible, but I never thought twice as a 15 year old. Nowadays, that kinda stuttering and frame dropping would make me sick.
Having been part of the fc2/fc3 dev team, I can confirm that Xbox became the lead platform over the course of development -- especially with respect to performance profiling
Right? I was so used to console gaming that i thought this was just a regular thing, but it wasn’t until i got a ps4 pro and eventually the ps5 i appreciate what more powerful hardware is capable of, i could never go back to this
I remember being unable to hit shots and unable to see things that were clearly there, and I thought my eyes were just going bad. You're more patient when you're younger, and willing to overlook complete stutters to keep playing.
Same, I had a 360, ps3 and a mediocre PC at that time. Was mainly gaming on PS3. I even played Bayonetta on that machine and played the shit out of it!! It's not until nowadays where I exclusively play on PC that I realise how bad the performance was that gen!
I remember playing it on the Xbox 360, and my reaction to the frame rate performance was knowing something wasn't right, but not being smart enough to understand lol. 7th gen was truly one of the gens of all time
@@DTheVigne well... I mean not in 06, but by 2010-11.. especially 12 the vast majority of people I knew had an HDTV (including my household) and thats in the poorest region in the EU.
@@dagainz6997 shows you know fuck all about the game. It was the best far cry game of the series and clearly you would know that if you actually played it.
The funny thing is when I played it back then on PS3, I didn´t notice any performance issues. I still remember FC3 as one of the best games I´ve ever played.
Probably because a lot of games on the PS3 suffered from the same issues, just not quite to this degree. So seeing sub 30 FPS regularly was pretty common and thus you become used to it and maybe don’t even realize how bad it actually is. (I had a PS3 for most of that era so I was one of those people until I built a PC around the time this game came out)
Same here, played on the 360. One of the best games I’ve ever played to this day. I didn’t noticed poor performance, stutters, tearing etc. I just enjoyed the game. I wish I could go back to these days. Now if a game drops below 60 for a second I get mad
@@dim9907 I feel the same way, honestly. I have always been pretty sensitive to stuff like this, and I have always noticed it but just didn't know how to articulate it because i was pretty ignorant until I discovered DF. Now that I am not only able to explain what I am looking at to myself and others, it only makes it that much more annoying when I see flaws in image quality and frames that shouldn't be there! Sometimes Ignorance really is bliss lol
One really under-appreciated aspect of PC gaming is being able to revisit these older games with more modern rigs / mods, and get a much better experience than was possible before. Especially for games like Dishonored 2, RDR2, some AC Creeds, and others than never got the 60 FPS upgrade treatment on console.
I know that the ps3 version runs like dog crap, but man did I have a lot of fun on the ps3 version. I never did like the ambient occlusion that made the game have thick black outlines on everything. I still think it was very impressive given the hardware they had.
@@BlueisNotaWarmColour I mean I always knew, but then again I also played through the early 3d generation where alot of game were way worse performance wise. So that didn't bother me at all. That bad ambient occlusion though I'd rather they had cut that. It didn't make the game look better imo, just was a distraction.
Honestly if they had disabled that god awful SSAO effect they may have gotten closer to the 30FPS target on consoles. But then again if there was a CPU limitation it would have done nothing.
@@Yodagamer1 my first system was the ps1 so I tended to focus on better textures and polygon counts- totally missing the screen tearing, frame drops, etc.
I agree. I played on xbox 360 and you could tell it wasn't as smooth as butter like a top end PC would be. But I had an amazing experience and really didn't care about that. I think the fun and enjoyment is the most important thing and like 97% of what the experience matters for me.
I really enjoyed playing this on 360 back in the day, but it was also the first time I distinctly noticed frame drops and screen tearing in a game before I really knew what that was. It was really rough.
This is a really fun video guys, I remember playing this game for PS3 it was probably the only game on the console that I played all the way through. The low frame rate was worth it once you got to the little present towards the end and for a 15-year-old that was a great present.
Please can you do a GTA IV retrospective? Doesn't have to be a triple platform comparison, I just believe it's a good game to look back at being an early rage title. The small details/physics still hold up today as well
The PC version of this game is one of the main reasons that I'm a PC gamer now. It was one of the first games I played on PC and was truly awed by the scope and detail of the world and impressed by the character animations and rendering. Plus, Blood Dragon came out shortly thereafter, which is still one of my favorite "expand-alone" games of all time.
Pc gaming is still quite a bit ahead of consoles but man back in this Era it was crazy. These consoles were out for so long and pc hardware advanced so fast the pc version of games was like a whole other generation ahead. Same went for ps4 and xbone due to being so weak when they released. Now....like I said pc is still a bit ahead but ps5 is still holding its own due to games being cross gen so much but those current gen only games like AW2 the pc still shines big time
Finished it on ps3, back when I didn't even notice or cared about fps, performance etc, just enjoyed the game and it was amazing, starting to think caring about performance metrics takes away from the actual game experience
I remember playing Far Cry 3 on 360 for a while, and then switching to another shooter set in the jungle, Bad Company 2 Vietnam, and feeling such immense relief at how much smoother and more responsive BC2 felt. Which was funny since both games targeted 30fps
Well, as Digital Foundry pointed out in the past, 30fps is a compromise but there ways of doing it right - namely frame pacing. 30fps with solid frame pacing is going to be smoother than 30fps with broken frame pacing.
i thought we played the same game at once time but nah, the one i played was called conflict viatnam, i use to listen to motion city soundtracks song why you cant you finish what you started while playing the game in bootcamp. those were the days when you could install music from a CD to your console.
@@ThePreciseClimber Yeah or in Far Cry 3's case, something worse than broken frame pacing, where it's targeting 30 but it's often more like 23fps with constant tearing
And now the bar has been raised with modern hardware. This game takes some tinkeringon modern hardware(assign only four cores in task manager and it runs smooth). I went from. 60-80 fps on my 4080 super and 13600k to 200-300 fps in 4k. Older games can run so good
The comparisons are not really meaningful anyway. It is always pretended that every gamer has a high-end PC, but that is far from reality. At that time I had a lot of Steam friends who couldn't play Far Cry 3 at 60fps even in 720p and medium details. The performance of the consoles was bad, but if you don't sit next to an fps counter like on the PC and start sweating with every fps drop, you can have a lot of fun with it. And that's exactly what's often missing on the PC: just have fun! It feels like people spend more time in the graphics menus than in the game itself.
Love this last stream of vids like this! Would love to see you take a look at Watch Dogs on PC vs XB360/PS3, perhaps have Rich let us finally know what kind of hardware that E3 2012 demonstration was running on ; )
You guys delivering multiple feature length Time Capsule videos this last month has been phenomenal, love the content and would love as much as possible. You guys talking about games like this is far more interesting than your average comparisons.
No, no, no Alex. Far cry 3 was NOT the birth of the Ubisoft Formula. Assassin's Creed the FIRST one is the birth of the Ubisoft Formula. The game has every thing that Ubisoft and even other games still use as a foundation today.
I ran that game maxed out at 60fps with my GTX 750 Ti, 8GB DDR3 and i3 2100 setup. It was a fantastic PC port and the last gen versions ran pretty decently too.
The way it ran on last gen was amazing, and the way such a high fidelity open world game ran at 60 fps on PS4 and Xbox One was amazing. Such a waste of an amazing engine that it was basically only used for Metal Gear 5, Metal Gear Survive, and PES.
@@aninfinitemindofmusicandreams Yeah, it's one of the best ports ever made for PC. I played it on 2500k+8GB and obsolete GTX5601GB at the moment and it managed to run at stable 50-60fps in 1080p high settings.
I had no idea how the hell did I 100% complete this on my 360. I noticed the tearing but somehow I got used to it and did not bother me anymore after like an hour or two of playing. Still a great game and great video by Digital Foundry.
Far Cry 3 was a real PC gaming showpiece at the time, considering next-gen consoles were still months from being unveiled and it'd be years before Far Cry 3 would be ported to PS4 and Xbox One (with a disappointing 30FPS cap to boot).
This was one of the first games I played on a custom rig, had a 3570k/HD 7950. 60 fps on a game like this was so amazing at the time and I knew I could never return to console. That build lasted me all the way until 2018! Miss this era.
same here, upgraded to 4770k and GTX 770 and enjoyed the hell out of this game. The whole atmosphere is just amazing, you get this warm summer feel instantly when you play it.
@UnrealStutterEngine PCs are quite cheap right now. Mid range GPUs have gone up in price comparatively, but everything else is very cheap. There are Ryzen 5600 CPUs at Microcenter for $130 and DDR4 is really cheap.
Never played or saw how the console versions of FC3 ran!! Thanks for the video Digital Foundry team, was really interesting and enjoyed the banter between you all as well! 😁
I remember playing this through on PS3 at launch and it being the first time I really got a concept of performance issues. Things like screen tearing and frame drops were things I saw before here and there, sure, but it didn’t significantly affect my enjoyment until FC3. Still beat the game and also Blood Dragon, because the games are just that good, but I definitely appreciated the boost once I rebought them on PC to go with my shiny new GeForce GT 650M (with SLI, no less! Lenovo Y500 laptop was a BEAST in its day!) Interestingly enough, even today, Blood Dragon is a TDP hog on Steam Deck. Must be something in the rendering pipeline for the retro filters (scanlines and such). Thanks for covering this one!
@@JamesSturges or 100 into new vegas and the memory leaks cause your ps3 to completely lock up and require a hard reset by unplugging it (this would happen every 30 minutes of gameplay lol)
I remember this game for several things: -Massive visual downgrade on PS3 and Xbox 360 preceded by dishonest marketing ("bullshots" and videos of PC version) -Awful performance on consoles -Being somehow less advanced in simulation and gameplay than FarCry 2 -Establishing super boring Ubi template of games they milk to this day The only good thing it brought to the world of gaming is Blood Dragon.
Oh my god, the bit about how there was literally no native 720p screens. I have always been so confused why so much content is 720p despite there being no displays, how well does 768p even work, as I don't see that as a display setting on many things even though it used to be a common resolution on laptops and TVs?
I love Rich playing these with you not for his gaming prowess or knowledge, but because it's fun to see him join the youngin's on their wild adventures. Makes him seem like a great boss!
@15:50 John: “…. This is the one with extreme things happening.” *pokes a guy in the throat with a spear* Richard: “I’m loving the way the command is to mash the button 😃”
I enjoyed the hell out of this on the Xbox 360 back over Christmas 2012. I spent pretty much the whole 2 weeks holiday getting lost in this and Assassin's Creed 3. Good times. 2012 was the last good year for gaming. The first Forza Horizon, a new Hitman game after a 7yr absence, Far Cry 3 and Assasins Creed 3 all came out just in time for Christmas.
@Spiral No i died in 2016 and was reincarnated in 2019. What came out in 2017 and 2018? Chances are I didn't like any of it. Gaming is dying. It's all samey samey grind fests and remakes. The days of originality died a long time ago.
@Spiral Out of those i was semi interested in Resident Evil 7 and Assissins Creed Origins. Both were ok nothing special. AC Origins changed the AC formula to a long drawn out grind or pay to skip the grind. I much prefer the old style AC formula. Resident Evil 7 just copied and ripped off a bunch of horror movies that I'd already seen a million and one times so I knew exactly what was coming. The rest I couldn't give a 💩 about. It's all more and more of the same. I also got Forza Horizon 4 in 2018. But after Forza Horizon 1, 2 and 3 I found it was just more of the same again and I'm Forzerd out now. 🤷 It's not nostalgia btw. I've been gaming since the 80s. When you have been gaming as long as I have it's more of the same and there isn't much originality in gaming anymore. It's all pretty much cookie cutter these days and not much excites me. The PlayStation 1 and 2 era were by far the best.
@Spiral Biased? What am I biased towards? I think you need to learn what the word actually means. Lol. it's really not hard to get feller. When you have been gaming as long as I have you have been there and seen it all. Like how i mentioned I loved Forza Horizon. I played the first 4 Forza Horizon games but now I am bored of them as they are all samey samey. Same with Call of Duty. There are only so many times I want to point and shoot bad guys over and over and over again. Same with Assassin's Creed. In fact all Ubisoft games follow the exact same formula. Games these days are grind fests filled with filler content to keep you grinding your life away on pointless little tasks with little reward. Gaming needs another Bioshock moment. At the time Bioshock came out gaming was stale just like it is now. BioShock was new, original and fresh. We need something fresh and original to come along again.
@Spiral Obviously not. I'm just worn out playing the same games over and over. Think about it. Back in the day Tombraider, Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, Resident Evil and many other classics were all brand new. We hadn't ever seen or experienced anything like them before. Now gaming is just more and more of the same. I've been there and done that. It's like eating the same meals over and over and over again. You get bored and want something new and fresh. And I clearly said we need something new and original. How is asking for something new and original being biased towards old games? 😂. It doesn't make sense lol. And I clearly said many games these days are remakes of old games and that remakes of old games are boring too. If I was biased I would say the remakes are great. 😂 Look at all the remakes of old games. Crash bandicoot,.spyro, silent hill, resident evils, Tombraiders and many more remakes are on the way. I don't care for any of them as I've already experienced them and know what happens.
@Spiral Because they don't interest me! Lol I watch reviews and see streams etc and I can see it's stuff that I've already done a million times before. We can break each game on your list down if you want? What were they again? Forza 7? I've been playing racing sims driving on the same race tracks since Granturismo 1. That's over 25yrs sim racing. I'm bored of sim racing now. So I moved onto open world racers like Forza Horizon. After 10yrs of playing Forza Horizon 1,2,3 and 4 I'm now bored of open world racers. Cup Head? Yet another 2D scroller. I've been playing 2D scrollers since the 1980s. Over 30yrs of them and I'm bored of them now. What else was on your list? None of it is original at all.
amazing how whe I played this on my 360 back then I wasnt in the least bothered by the performace aspect of it, it was just amazing, one of my favorite games.
20:30 Really? MSAA in a deferred renderer? That's rare. I think I remember the MSAA only being alpha-to-coverage type in Far Cry 3. Crysis 1 has that type of anti aliasing too I believe, but have to enable it via console command. Ah, I see you touch on it at 50:40 Please do a Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter comparison. Could even play the Xbox version that is a totally different game essentially and compare vs Xbox 360 version.
@@ajsingh4545 I have to disagree. I like MSAA but it's not the best. Nvidias MFAA improves it in the few games it works. Just an improved MSAA. SSAA is a little better but more demanding. being it's super sampling. I really like Nvidia DSR and the new one with temporal element to it. But personally I love TAA. Especially really good implementations of it. Little bit of sharpening and it looks great. I really, really hate shimmering and temporal aliasing. It was my biggest pet peeve of 360/PS3 generation where lights would hit shadow and shimmer. Or thin objects like trees and power lines would have temporal aliasing from being so small. TAA fixes that. Though it does have it's downfalls like ghosting and blurriness.
Haha I bought Far Cry 3 Xbox 360 version to play on the Series X because of the 60fps only a few weeks ago. Was a joy to get all the non online achievements. Criminal the actual remastered Classic edition was 30 fps. As soon I saw Vaas this time around, I knew I had seen elsewhere, Better Call Saul.
Well what do you know, DF became the new Top Gear. I enjoyed this Far Cry 3 vid very much, the montage was top notch and I definitely laughed louder than I should, well done Alex!
Was looking at HDAO and HBAO. HBAO *Horizon Based Ambient Occlusion) is mainly for nvidia cards and HDAO (High Definition Ambient Occlusion) is for AMD Cards. They are essentially the same though. Both aim to fix issues of SSAO. like the halos Also I really enjoy these! Please do more!
fc3 was one of my favorites on ps3. its a perfect example of bad crashy buggy AND addictive games I literally did not put the game down until I had the platinum trophy and was eager to play fc4
I'm glad I experienced this and other games on PS3 before I was so aware of performance metrics/fps/resolution and so on. I got the console in 2015, and after a biiiiiiig biiiig gap in gaming, it was a godsent to experience more current games. I love the PS triple, but I couldn't play anything on it nowadays
17:50 character rendering on both consoles looks better than the pc port for some reason. It's like all the sweat specular are missing on pc for some reason.
They want to make everything bigger and bigger, but just like she told me the other day size doesn't matter, its the motion of the ocean or the fun factor thats more important
Love these time capsule videos comparing PC to the consoles. Would love to see more Xbox 360 and PS3 head to heads, there seemed to be quite a lot of differences in that generation.
What the hell.... I don't remember it being this bad. I was just so happy to get it on the 360. Played it multiple times and had a lot of fun. Never noticed the FPS
1:11:46 Indeed. I recently played through Tomb Raider Underworld (2008 release). I had an option to play it 4K60 on my PC but somehow ended up playing it all the way through on PS3! It's insane!
Games like Far Cry 3 are the reason why, when I finally got a powerful gaming PC, the first thing I did was fire up PS3/360 gen ports instead of cutting edge graphics games like Red Dead 2 or Metro. It's honestly stunning how bad game framerates got during the 7th gen on consoles, especially after having mostly 60fps on PS2.
mostly 60 fps on ps2 are you mental? most games ran exactly as poor as the ps3/360 games! and they lagged even further behind their pc counterparts, often their ports weren even the same game. the 360 era was a huge step up.
@@DDT-lr3zz mgs 2 was a rare technical marvel like rage on the 360/ps3 (which also had a completely stable 60 fps, while hardly looking worse than other games of its time). like i said most ps2 games were worse off than 360 gen.
23:45 "Hold on... Are those My Shoes!? ...Nasty, smelly, wiggly, squiggly Mr. Witchetty Man!" "Nurse, he's got my shoes! He's got my shoes on! Why my shoes? Plenty of other shoes out there, why mine!?"
The fps is tolerable on the first island because the enemies are pretty weak but once you get to the next island the difficulty ramps up and it becomes so frustrating with the lower console fps especially on the last few missions where so much is going on you can feel the frames are dropping super low. It was almost unplayable at that point
I miss that era of gaming. I wasn't a kid, so it's not childhood nostalgia. There were great new IPs all the time. These days, some of the best games are remakes. I want new experiences. I don't want to watch the same movie over and over again with different actors!
The one thing though about the second island, it felt more rushed to be made. There is less foliage density, less interesting terrain and everything feels very slap-dash and not thought out. Feels more like something someone made for their first Unreal terrain tutorial project.
I remember playing this on my DLP which did run at 1280 by 720 and at the time this game stood out because the DLP could output such vibrant colors and so many of the other FPS were doing the Gears of War brown/gray color palette which was always so drab. I do however remember the unbalanced FOV and the cut scenes being choppy but I always assumed it was because the protganist was on drugs and was viewing it in a drugged haze.
Not sure if this was mentioned in earlier comments... I wonder if the 360 would have run the game a little better if the game was installed to the HDD for this video comparison.
The tapir, the tapir, I completely lost it at the tapir. These videos are endlessly entertaining all the while being fascinatingly informative. Many thanks.
Yea this was right around the time if you were a teenager during this time everyone was making that transition from console to pc, at least in my social circle. Played these on my older siblings’ laptops that were much more powerful than the family pc so i missed out on a lot of the bad ports at the end of the 360/PS3 era. Went out and got my first job to get a gaming pc, what a blast !
This was one of my first PC games when I finally built a real gaming pc as an adult. I remember the feeling of awe playing this at 1080p 60fps. The visuals in the game feel like they could have been generic, but there’s just that extra element of artistic design behind how it’s all put together, it’s gorgeous, still now with it’s limited geometry and muddy textures. It was so refreshing after so much 720p 30fps content that i didn’t realize were a limitation until that time.
The Xbox 360 version actually runs at 60fps on Series consoles, which is nice. Although it begs the question of why didn't they implement the fps boost on the Classic version instead. Surely even Series S could run that at 60fps if it can handle the more demanding Far Cry 5
At the time this game was so absorbing and engaging that no one gave a damn about the performance. A lot of the now-cliched ideas were fresh and innovative at the time. It was just such an enjoyable game!
I loved the group mission multi player. It was like single player but with friends. A really cool concept that I felt was fun. Sucks the MP stuff don't work anymore.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
It's crazy what you put up with as a kid. I was like 14 when this came out and played it on Xbox 360. Never noticed any frame rate issues or anything. Just thought it looked and played amazing hahah
I remember thinking the same, in the 90’s with super Nintendo. I remember the games looking incredible. Same with first PlayStation. When I look back, I’m like, Jesus Christ 🤢
There’s 1 game from the 90’s that I still think looks great and has aged incredibly well and that’s street fighter 2.
I think we put up with it because we had no idea what FPS and stutters and bad performance were. We thought games just "existed", and that they were just played. At least for me.
@@grahamkelly8662 that is something else entirely, those games were designed to be displayed on a crt and take advantage of the blurring between 'pixels' to make better colors and pixel art. On these gen, consoles just ran games like shit, there was no reason to get a console at all compared to a pc. Obviously not the same nowadays due to the pricing changes between the consoles and pc.
Well they do tend to make a mountain out of a mole hill sometimes on this channel.
The big one for me was Fallout 4 on Xbox One. The performance was terrible, but I never thought twice as a 15 year old. Nowadays, that kinda stuttering and frame dropping would make me sick.
Having been part of the fc2/fc3 dev team, I can confirm that Xbox became the lead platform over the course of development -- especially with respect to performance profiling
Hmm I noticed that the under water caustics are broken on pc vs the consoles.. I wonder why
Also the entire water shallow/deep depth rendering is broken on pc as well
I think X360 was always was the lead platform with multi-platform games on consoles.
@@mbsfaridi There were some exceptions like FF13 , Bioshock Infinite , Mirrors Edge and GTA V
Was the 360 easy to program for?
Fun fact: The intro video was intended to be a mission but was cut and still remains in the game files. Awesome video.
more info please
Weirdly, I completed this game on PS3 and hardly noticed the bad performance….. it’d drive me crazy today.
Right? I was so used to console gaming that i thought this was just a regular thing, but it wasn’t until i got a ps4 pro and eventually the ps5 i appreciate what more powerful hardware is capable of, i could never go back to this
I remember being unable to hit shots and unable to see things that were clearly there, and I thought my eyes were just going bad. You're more patient when you're younger, and willing to overlook complete stutters to keep playing.
Same, I had a 360, ps3 and a mediocre PC at that time. Was mainly gaming on PS3. I even played Bayonetta on that machine and played the shit out of it!!
It's not until nowadays where I exclusively play on PC that I realise how bad the performance was that gen!
@@NOTMuzzaFuzza Same lol. Knowledge is a curse
It would drive crazy but only for the first hour (max two). After that time it's easy to get used to and it's not a problem anymore.
I remember playing it on the Xbox 360, and my reaction to the frame rate performance was knowing something wasn't right, but not being smart enough to understand lol. 7th gen was truly one of the gens of all time
If they didn't target HD TVs with those console they could have made games that ran properly. Also this gen was too long
@@DTheVigne well... I mean not in 06, but by 2010-11.. especially 12 the vast majority of people I knew had an HDTV (including my household) and thats in the poorest region in the EU.
@@TKIvanov That's why I'm saying this gen was too long. There should have been a new gen in 2011-2012. The 360 and the Triple were limping
@@DTheVigne okay my bad, somehow I missed your 2nd sentence.
This is true, because I played on PS3 with a 480p TV and things looked and ran good. Just that the fonts were too small in some games.
"incompetent boobery" is a good word combo, RIch always delivers
This triple threat of Rich, John and Alex doing time capsules has to be a permanent addition to DF. Just amazing.
Agree, it´s enjoyable to revisit some good old time games with their great knowledge
Triple threat. And "The Game", "Triple-P"!
Agree!
Boring game
@@dagainz6997 shows you know fuck all about the game. It was the best far cry game of the series and clearly you would know that if you actually played it.
Would be great to see you guys do Shadow of Mordor like this. Those last gen Console ports were something else.
11 FPS on ps3, those were the days…
I remember my brother picking up the PS3 version second hand on a whim and being astonished at how bad it looked and ran.
@@TheBreadB 😳
Last gen? Most last last gen
I remember playing Shadow of Mordor on the 360 and not being able to get through encounter cutscenes without the game having to load 2 or 3 times.
I like how John used the classic stealth kill technique of subtly placing a tank mine right behind an enemy and blowing up the enemy and himself 😂
I love how DF retro is single handedly keeping the memory of Chad Warden alive
Memory of Chad Warden? The Warden is eternal the Chad is timeless
Every single time Ledbetter says "that triple" I fucking LIVE
I'm convinced Chad warden is the reason why Sony is beating MS this gen. The phantom of *No Gaymes* haunts Sony.
I get a kick out of whenever they say "the triple". I still say it to this day.
That one time they started a video with Rich saying “sup bitches”
The funny thing is when I played it back then on PS3, I didn´t notice any performance issues. I still remember FC3 as one of the best games I´ve ever played.
Probably because a lot of games on the PS3 suffered from the same issues, just not quite to this degree. So seeing sub 30 FPS regularly was pretty common and thus you become used to it and maybe don’t even realize how bad it actually is.
(I had a PS3 for most of that era so I was one of those people until I built a PC around the time this game came out)
Same here, played on the 360. One of the best games I’ve ever played to this day. I didn’t noticed poor performance, stutters, tearing etc. I just enjoyed the game. I wish I could go back to these days. Now if a game drops below 60 for a second I get mad
@@dim9907 I feel the same way, honestly. I have always been pretty sensitive to stuff like this, and I have always noticed it but just didn't know how to articulate it because i was pretty ignorant until I discovered DF. Now that I am not only able to explain what I am looking at to myself and others, it only makes it that much more annoying when I see flaws in image quality and frames that shouldn't be there! Sometimes Ignorance really is bliss lol
@@Snake_2066 Crysis 3 on PS3 was literally a powerpoint , its hard to play due to its performance
@dim9907 I'm the same way but it's if a game drops below 90
One really under-appreciated aspect of PC gaming is being able to revisit these older games with more modern rigs / mods, and get a much better experience than was possible before. Especially for games like Dishonored 2, RDR2, some AC Creeds, and others than never got the 60 FPS upgrade treatment on console.
I know that the ps3 version runs like dog crap, but man did I have a lot of fun on the ps3 version. I never did like the ambient occlusion that made the game have thick black outlines on everything. I still think it was very impressive given the hardware they had.
Yeah I got the game when I was 13 or so and never noticed the performance but I DID notice the bad ambient occlusion as well. We were so innocent.
@@BlueisNotaWarmColour I mean I always knew, but then again I also played through the early 3d generation where alot of game were way worse performance wise. So that didn't bother me at all. That bad ambient occlusion though I'd rather they had cut that. It didn't make the game look better imo, just was a distraction.
Honestly if they had disabled that god awful SSAO effect they may have gotten closer to the 30FPS target on consoles. But then again if there was a CPU limitation it would have done nothing.
@@Yodagamer1 my first system was the ps1 so I tended to focus on better textures and polygon counts- totally missing the screen tearing, frame drops, etc.
I agree. I played on xbox 360 and you could tell it wasn't as smooth as butter like a top end PC would be. But I had an amazing experience and really didn't care about that. I think the fun and enjoyment is the most important thing and like 97% of what the experience matters for me.
I really enjoyed playing this on 360 back in the day, but it was also the first time I distinctly noticed frame drops and screen tearing in a game before I really knew what that was. It was really rough.
This is a really fun video guys, I remember playing this game for PS3 it was probably the only game on the console that I played all the way through. The low frame rate was worth it once you got to the little present towards the end and for a 15-year-old that was a great present.
lol.
Lmao.
lel.
Please can you do a GTA IV retrospective? Doesn't have to be a triple platform comparison, I just believe it's a good game to look back at being an early rage title. The small details/physics still hold up today as well
The PC version of this game is one of the main reasons that I'm a PC gamer now. It was one of the first games I played on PC and was truly awed by the scope and detail of the world and impressed by the character animations and rendering. Plus, Blood Dragon came out shortly thereafter, which is still one of my favorite "expand-alone" games of all time.
Pc gaming is still quite a bit ahead of consoles but man back in this Era it was crazy. These consoles were out for so long and pc hardware advanced so fast the pc version of games was like a whole other generation ahead. Same went for ps4 and xbone due to being so weak when they released. Now....like I said pc is still a bit ahead but ps5 is still holding its own due to games being cross gen so much but those current gen only games like AW2 the pc still shines big time
Finished it on ps3, back when I didn't even notice or cared about fps, performance etc, just enjoyed the game and it was amazing, starting to think caring about performance metrics takes away from the actual game experience
I remember playing Far Cry 3 on 360 for a while, and then switching to another shooter set in the jungle, Bad Company 2 Vietnam, and feeling such immense relief at how much smoother and more responsive BC2 felt. Which was funny since both games targeted 30fps
Well, as Digital Foundry pointed out in the past, 30fps is a compromise but there ways of doing it right - namely frame pacing. 30fps with solid frame pacing is going to be smoother than 30fps with broken frame pacing.
i thought we played the same game at once time but nah, the one i played was called conflict viatnam, i use to listen to motion city soundtracks song why you cant you finish what you started while playing the game in bootcamp. those were the days when you could install music from a CD to your console.
@@ThePreciseClimber Yeah or in Far Cry 3's case, something worse than broken frame pacing, where it's targeting 30 but it's often more like 23fps with constant tearing
It's pretty unfair to compare anything to Frostbite. That engine was a technical marvel back in its day before EA decided to Frankenstein it.
Please keep these videos up! Love them! It's like getting a cup of nostalgia with expert opinion thrown in.
When this game came out I didn't care about fps at all. Everything looked so beautiful to me.
And now the bar has been raised with modern hardware. This game takes some tinkeringon modern hardware(assign only four cores in task manager and it runs smooth). I went from. 60-80 fps on my 4080 super and 13600k to 200-300 fps in 4k. Older games can run so good
Best series on DF channel .
Doom 3 , Chaos Theory , Max Payne , GTA4 we need this 😂
The comparisons are not really meaningful anyway. It is always pretended that every gamer has a high-end PC, but that is far from reality. At that time I had a lot of Steam friends who couldn't play Far Cry 3 at 60fps even in 720p and medium details. The performance of the consoles was bad, but if you don't sit next to an fps counter like on the PC and start sweating with every fps drop, you can have a lot of fun with it. And that's exactly what's often missing on the PC: just have fun! It feels like people spend more time in the graphics menus than in the game itself.
Love this last stream of vids like this! Would love to see you take a look at Watch Dogs on PC vs XB360/PS3, perhaps have Rich let us finally know what kind of hardware that E3 2012 demonstration was running on ; )
You guys delivering multiple feature length Time Capsule videos this last month has been phenomenal, love the content and would love as much as possible. You guys talking about games like this is far more interesting than your average comparisons.
No, no, no Alex. Far cry 3 was NOT the birth of the Ubisoft Formula. Assassin's Creed the FIRST one is the birth of the Ubisoft Formula. The game has every thing that Ubisoft and even other games still use as a foundation today.
X2
you guys gotta try this for MGSV, it's kinda amazing how well it ran on PS3 for being a 2015 game (at least from my memory)
it did run pretty well, it was a miracle.
Yeah it was very well optimized
I ran that game maxed out at 60fps with my GTX 750 Ti, 8GB DDR3 and i3 2100 setup. It was a fantastic PC port and the last gen versions ran pretty decently too.
The way it ran on last gen was amazing, and the way such a high fidelity open world game ran at 60 fps on PS4 and Xbox One was amazing. Such a waste of an amazing engine that it was basically only used for Metal Gear 5, Metal Gear Survive, and PES.
@@aninfinitemindofmusicandreams Yeah, it's one of the best ports ever made for PC. I played it on 2500k+8GB and obsolete GTX5601GB at the moment and it managed to run at stable 50-60fps in 1080p high settings.
I had no idea how the hell did I 100% complete this on my 360.
I noticed the tearing but somehow I got used to it and did not bother me anymore after like an hour or two of playing.
Still a great game and great video by Digital Foundry.
Far Cry 3 was a real PC gaming showpiece at the time, considering next-gen consoles were still months from being unveiled and it'd be years before Far Cry 3 would be ported to PS4 and Xbox One (with a disappointing 30FPS cap to boot).
I like the SSAO black halo stuff. It's basically a part of the 'Far Cry 3 look' to me. The HDAO reveals more faults IMO.
This was one of the first games I played on a custom rig, had a 3570k/HD 7950. 60 fps on a game like this was so amazing at the time and I knew I could never return to console. That build lasted me all the way until 2018! Miss this era.
7950 can even run RDR2 at 1080p 30 fps
3770k and gtx 680, my first rig also i was coming from consoles XDDDDDDD😂😂😂
same here, upgraded to 4770k and GTX 770 and enjoyed the hell out of this game. The whole atmosphere is just amazing, you get this warm summer feel instantly when you play it.
@UnrealStutterEngine PCs are quite cheap right now. Mid range GPUs have gone up in price comparatively, but everything else is very cheap. There are Ryzen 5600 CPUs at Microcenter for $130 and DDR4 is really cheap.
Never played or saw how the console versions of FC3 ran!! Thanks for the video Digital Foundry team, was really interesting and enjoyed the banter between you all as well! 😁
22:21 John just ignoring Alexs questions
Rook Island btw.
I remember playing this through on PS3 at launch and it being the first time I really got a concept of performance issues. Things like screen tearing and frame drops were things I saw before here and there, sure, but it didn’t significantly affect my enjoyment until FC3.
Still beat the game and also Blood Dragon, because the games are just that good, but I definitely appreciated the boost once I rebought them on PC to go with my shiny new GeForce GT 650M (with SLI, no less! Lenovo Y500 laptop was a BEAST in its day!)
Interestingly enough, even today, Blood Dragon is a TDP hog on Steam Deck. Must be something in the rendering pipeline for the retro filters (scanlines and such).
Thanks for covering this one!
prob what happen to every ps3 owner : P
@@krono5el all fun and games until you get 50 hours into Skyrim on PS3
@@JamesSturges or 100 into new vegas and the memory leaks cause your ps3 to completely lock up and require a hard reset by unplugging it (this would happen every 30 minutes of gameplay lol)
I remember this game for several things:
-Massive visual downgrade on PS3 and Xbox 360 preceded by dishonest marketing ("bullshots" and videos of PC version)
-Awful performance on consoles
-Being somehow less advanced in simulation and gameplay than FarCry 2
-Establishing super boring Ubi template of games they milk to this day
The only good thing it brought to the world of gaming is Blood Dragon.
Oh my god, the bit about how there was literally no native 720p screens. I have always been so confused why so much content is 720p despite there being no displays, how well does 768p even work, as I don't see that as a display setting on many things even though it used to be a common resolution on laptops and TVs?
I love Rich playing these with you not for his gaming prowess or knowledge, but because it's fun to see him join the youngin's on their wild adventures. Makes him seem like a great boss!
HE generally played better as well
Who else was severely disappointed in the 30fps lock in the definitive edition?
@15:50
John: “…. This is the one with extreme things happening.”
*pokes a guy in the throat with a spear*
Richard: “I’m loving the way the command is to mash the button 😃”
I love how giddy Alex is for these, you can tell it's all for the love of the game with that guy lol.
Far Cry 3 on PS3 was such an agonizing experience.
I enjoyed the hell out of this on the Xbox 360 back over Christmas 2012. I spent pretty much the whole 2 weeks holiday getting lost in this and Assassin's Creed 3. Good times. 2012 was the last good year for gaming. The first Forza Horizon, a new Hitman game after a 7yr absence, Far Cry 3 and Assasins Creed 3 all came out just in time for Christmas.
@Spiral No i died in 2016 and was reincarnated in 2019. What came out in 2017 and 2018? Chances are I didn't like any of it. Gaming is dying. It's all samey samey grind fests and remakes. The days of originality died a long time ago.
@Spiral Out of those i was semi interested in Resident Evil 7 and Assissins Creed Origins. Both were ok nothing special. AC Origins changed the AC formula to a long drawn out grind or pay to skip the grind. I much prefer the old style AC formula. Resident Evil 7 just copied and ripped off a bunch of horror movies that I'd already seen a million and one times so I knew exactly what was coming. The rest I couldn't give a 💩 about. It's all more and more of the same. I also got Forza Horizon 4 in 2018. But after Forza Horizon 1, 2 and 3 I found it was just more of the same again and I'm Forzerd out now. 🤷 It's not nostalgia btw. I've been gaming since the 80s. When you have been gaming as long as I have it's more of the same and there isn't much originality in gaming anymore. It's all pretty much cookie cutter these days and not much excites me. The PlayStation 1 and 2 era were by far the best.
@Spiral Biased? What am I biased towards? I think you need to learn what the word actually means. Lol. it's really not hard to get feller. When you have been gaming as long as I have you have been there and seen it all. Like how i mentioned I loved Forza Horizon. I played the first 4 Forza Horizon games but now I am bored of them as they are all samey samey. Same with Call of Duty. There are only so many times I want to point and shoot bad guys over and over and over again. Same with Assassin's Creed. In fact all Ubisoft games follow the exact same formula. Games these days are grind fests filled with filler content to keep you grinding your life away on pointless little tasks with little reward. Gaming needs another Bioshock moment. At the time Bioshock came out gaming was stale just like it is now. BioShock was new, original and fresh. We need something fresh and original to come along again.
@Spiral Obviously not. I'm just worn out playing the same games over and over. Think about it. Back in the day Tombraider, Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, Resident Evil and many other classics were all brand new. We hadn't ever seen or experienced anything like them before. Now gaming is just more and more of the same. I've been there and done that. It's like eating the same meals over and over and over again. You get bored and want something new and fresh. And I clearly said we need something new and original. How is asking for something new and original being biased towards old games? 😂. It doesn't make sense lol. And I clearly said many games these days are remakes of old games and that remakes of old games are boring too. If I was biased I would say the remakes are great. 😂 Look at all the remakes of old games. Crash bandicoot,.spyro, silent hill, resident evils, Tombraiders and many more remakes are on the way. I don't care for any of them as I've already experienced them and know what happens.
@Spiral Because they don't interest me! Lol I watch reviews and see streams etc and I can see it's stuff that I've already done a million times before. We can break each game on your list down if you want? What were they again? Forza 7? I've been playing racing sims driving on the same race tracks since Granturismo 1. That's over 25yrs sim racing. I'm bored of sim racing now. So I moved onto open world racers like Forza Horizon. After 10yrs of playing Forza Horizon 1,2,3 and 4 I'm now bored of open world racers. Cup Head? Yet another 2D scroller. I've been playing 2D scrollers since the 1980s. Over 30yrs of them and I'm bored of them now. What else was on your list? None of it is original at all.
your videos are of great comfort to me.
Ok the Tapir moment and the "You're winner" for the DF Rally killed me, long live Big Rigs the greatest game of all time
Farcry 2 still in my heart...
That one will always be special.
Every Far Cry game since Far Cry 3 (except for maybe Far Cry Primal) has been a remake of Far Cry 3. Same formula, but a different coat of paint.
Despite the near constant screen tearing I put so many hours into the PS3 version. It was all in good fun.
I love these PC a time Capsule Videos!
amazing how whe I played this on my 360 back then I wasnt in the least bothered by the performace aspect of it, it was just amazing, one of my favorite games.
Same here. Was too busy with the immersion.
20:30 Really? MSAA in a deferred renderer? That's rare. I think I remember the MSAA only being alpha-to-coverage type in Far Cry 3. Crysis 1 has that type of anti aliasing too I believe, but have to enable it via console command. Ah, I see you touch on it at 50:40 Please do a Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter comparison. Could even play the Xbox version that is a totally different game essentially and compare vs Xbox 360 version.
MSAA is near god tier AA .... TAA is crap
@@ajsingh4545 I have to disagree. I like MSAA but it's not the best. Nvidias MFAA improves it in the few games it works. Just an improved MSAA. SSAA is a little better but more demanding. being it's super sampling. I really like Nvidia DSR and the new one with temporal element to it. But personally I love TAA. Especially really good implementations of it. Little bit of sharpening and it looks great. I really, really hate shimmering and temporal aliasing. It was my biggest pet peeve of 360/PS3 generation where lights would hit shadow and shimmer. Or thin objects like trees and power lines would have temporal aliasing from being so small. TAA fixes that. Though it does have it's downfalls like ghosting and blurriness.
Got the Platinum on PS3 at the time. Amazing game. Can't imagine myself playing at 14 fps today.
Performace on the 7th gen aged pretty bad
Haha I bought Far Cry 3 Xbox 360 version to play on the Series X because of the 60fps only a few weeks ago. Was a joy to get all the non online achievements.
Criminal the actual remastered Classic edition was 30 fps.
As soon I saw Vaas this time around, I knew I had seen elsewhere, Better Call Saul.
Well what do you know, DF became the new Top Gear. I enjoyed this Far Cry 3 vid very much, the montage was top notch and I definitely laughed louder than I should, well done Alex!
Was looking at HDAO and HBAO. HBAO *Horizon Based Ambient Occlusion) is mainly for nvidia cards and HDAO (High Definition Ambient Occlusion) is for AMD Cards. They are essentially the same though. Both aim to fix issues of SSAO. like the halos
Also I really enjoy these! Please do more!
is that nacho from better call saul? nvm, it is. Never knew. It looked like him so that's a plus.
Still looks great on PC even after all these years.
fc3 was one of my favorites on ps3. its a perfect example of bad crashy buggy AND addictive games
I literally did not put the game down until I had the platinum trophy and was eager to play fc4
I'm glad I experienced this and other games on PS3 before I was so aware of performance metrics/fps/resolution and so on. I got the console in 2015, and after a biiiiiiig biiiig gap in gaming, it was a godsent to experience more current games. I love the PS triple, but I couldn't play anything on it nowadays
17:50 character rendering on both consoles looks better than the pc port for some reason. It's like all the sweat specular are missing on pc for some reason.
Played on 360. Low frame rate didn’t detract at all. What an incredible game. Theme, story, gameplay. Oh Far Cry, what happened to you since?
They want to make everything bigger and bigger, but just like she told me the other day size doesn't matter, its the motion of the ocean or the fun factor thats more important
Absolutely love this game! So many hours spent exploring Rook Island through the past decade… Thank you for this analysis and for the memories!
I can't wait for the dead space remake review video. I got it on my series s and it looks amazing!
I pre ordered Callisto over Dead Space Remake (I'm not rich, I have to choose on of them) cuz listening hype of "reviewers". This was the last time.
Love these time capsule videos comparing PC to the consoles. Would love to see more Xbox 360 and PS3 head to heads, there seemed to be quite a lot of differences in that generation.
What the hell.... I don't remember it being this bad. I was just so happy to get it on the 360. Played it multiple times and had a lot of fun. Never noticed the FPS
dude that comparison at 22:50 is crazy. The shadows all look drastically different
Check out this dude's kicks xD I love this man
Talk about a coincidence that I decided to do another playthrough of this game earlier this week, and boom; Digital Foundry video on it lol
Thank you for all the work you do. You teach me how to feel even more pleasure from gaming.
Alex Battaglia 2023: "I'm humping it!"
Oh, Alex. xD
I think you mean "hoofing it."
Google the military term "hump it"
I meant hump ;)
@@DigitalFoundry I learn something new every day! :P
1:11:46 Indeed. I recently played through Tomb Raider Underworld (2008 release). I had an option to play it 4K60 on my PC but somehow ended up playing it all the way through on PS3! It's insane!
I really don't remember the performance on the 360 being this bad, played back in the day without problem
Ignorance is bliss. I was the same
Games like Far Cry 3 are the reason why, when I finally got a powerful gaming PC, the first thing I did was fire up PS3/360 gen ports instead of cutting edge graphics games like Red Dead 2 or Metro.
It's honestly stunning how bad game framerates got during the 7th gen on consoles, especially after having mostly 60fps on PS2.
Same.
I love to revisit games that I played on my poor hardware before. PC upgrades are amazing.
mostly 60 fps on ps2 are you mental? most games ran exactly as poor as the ps3/360 games! and they lagged even further behind their pc counterparts, often their ports weren even the same game. the 360 era was a huge step up.
Specs doesn´t determine frame rates.
I mean there were 60fps games on NES like Super Mario Bros in 1985
@@dmer-zy3rb Well PS2 MGS 2 runs at 60fps in 2001, but then 3 years later MGS 3 can´t even run at locked 30fps
@@DDT-lr3zz mgs 2 was a rare technical marvel like rage on the 360/ps3 (which also had a completely stable 60 fps, while hardly looking worse than other games of its time). like i said most ps2 games were worse off than 360 gen.
I hope we get more 7th gen games revisit in the future because WOW, a lot of us really tolerated this back then, damn.
23:45 "Hold on... Are those My Shoes!? ...Nasty, smelly, wiggly, squiggly Mr. Witchetty Man!"
"Nurse, he's got my shoes! He's got my shoes on! Why my shoes? Plenty of other shoes out there, why mine!?"
Love this format! Bioshocks when?
The fps is tolerable on the first island because the enemies are pretty weak but once you get to the next island the difficulty ramps up and it becomes so frustrating with the lower console fps especially on the last few missions where so much is going on you can feel the frames are dropping super low. It was almost unplayable at that point
I love Retro reviews! Keep it up.
FC3 xbox360 version is 60fps on XSS and XSX, after it was fps boosted last year. ICYMI
I really love this format, please more. 😃
I miss that era of gaming. I wasn't a kid, so it's not childhood nostalgia. There were great new IPs all the time. These days, some of the best games are remakes. I want new experiences. I don't want to watch the same movie over and over again with different actors!
Didn't Far Cry 4 come out on PS3 and 360? Would be interested to see how that holds up, if so.
Yes.
The one thing though about the second island, it felt more rushed to be made. There is less foliage density, less interesting terrain and everything feels very slap-dash and not thought out. Feels more like something someone made for their first Unreal terrain tutorial project.
One of the absolute best games they've made. There was real passion behind this game.
Did we wacth the same video?
@@bingobongo1615 not on about the video it's the game as a whole
I remember playing this on my DLP which did run at 1280 by 720 and at the time this game stood out because the DLP could output such vibrant colors and so many of the other FPS were doing the Gears of War brown/gray color palette which was always so drab. I do however remember the unbalanced FOV and the cut scenes being choppy but I always assumed it was because the protganist was on drugs and was viewing it in a drugged haze.
thanks guys, really loving the great new and classic content.
Not sure if this was mentioned in earlier comments... I wonder if the 360 would have run the game a little better if the game was installed to the HDD for this video comparison.
56:09 from what game is that soundtrack?
I remember being in some racing game back in the 90's
Was hoping DF would release the Dead Space Remake video today. Would like to know if i should buy for PS5 or XSX...
The tapir, the tapir, I completely lost it at the tapir. These videos are endlessly entertaining all the while being fascinatingly informative. Many thanks.
Yea this was right around the time if you were a teenager during this time everyone was making that transition from console to pc, at least in my social circle. Played these on my older siblings’ laptops that were much more powerful than the family pc so i missed out on a lot of the bad ports at the end of the 360/PS3 era. Went out and got my first job to get a gaming pc, what a blast !
Are you gonna do a Dead Space Remake analysis?
This was one of my first PC games when I finally built a real gaming pc as an adult. I remember the feeling of awe playing this at 1080p 60fps. The visuals in the game feel like they could have been generic, but there’s just that extra element of artistic design behind how it’s all put together, it’s gorgeous, still now with it’s limited geometry and muddy textures. It was so refreshing after so much 720p 30fps content that i didn’t realize were a limitation until that time.
Good stuff, as always, but I am waiting for the Dead-Space Technical review/analysis. I want Alex's optimized settings for PC before I finish it 😀
The Xbox 360 version actually runs at 60fps on Series consoles, which is nice. Although it begs the question of why didn't they implement the fps boost on the Classic version instead. Surely even Series S could run that at 60fps if it can handle the more demanding Far Cry 5
At the time this game was so absorbing and engaging that no one gave a damn about the performance. A lot of the now-cliched ideas were fresh and innovative at the time. It was just such an enjoyable game!
@13:58 I think HDAO was the AMD alternative to nVidias HBAO.
I loved the group mission multi player. It was like single player but with friends. A really cool concept that I felt was fun. Sucks the MP stuff don't work anymore.
Alex: John, what was the name of the island in this game?
John: WHOA look at the shadows on this guy!
Never change, DF! 😂
Metroid Prime 3 on Wii next please, the best looking game on that console.
What about Super Mario Galaxy 2, The Conduit 2, The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles or Fragile Dreams?
Prototype would be a fun game to look back to for a video like this
It didn’t ever seem that bad when I played it on the 360. The screen tearing was noticeable though.