The Boks fan base have stood by the ABs and Fozzie during their dark days and still today we say " We admire and respect you guys and always will. 💚💛🇿🇦
Was there to watch the ABs at Ellis Park when they saved Fozzie’s job. They were immense that day and it was clear to every Bok fan that they would rise to the occasion at the World Cup.
@@googlename5125the Boks had good two tries disallowed and DW carded in the first 10min of game. Dumb play by Wiese at the end of game cost the Boks rather than anything else
@@johncraig9011 and i think the try that was given the ball went forward in last 'pass'/knock. In the end i think there were iffy calls both ways. If we lost we would be complaining about wrong calls etc. Think the refs and tmo had a good game.
We hearing tmo should be less involved. Then when less involved we will hear tmo must be more involved due to more incorrect calls. Nz lose complain about the ref, if sa lose we would be complaining (there were iffy calls both ways). In the end you will never satisfy everyone... gotta feel for the refs. Overall the ref/tmo and assistants had a rather good game.
Thank you guys for a great and fair analysis! Imagine just for a second mixing the bok team with the kiwis for an insane 'dream team'. Thanx again from SA and well done AB's!
I'm South African and Boks supporter, but fellows you have just earned my respect. Well balanced and objective content. If it was not SA winning, I would have wanted the AB to win it. I take my hat off for Fozzie and Sam, never looked for excuses instead owned up. SA has lots of respect for the AB.
Yeah as a kiwi and through and through AB fan. Agree with these blokes. It is what it is. Hope world rugby look into things for every teams sake. Not just this game. But at the end of the day, it is what it is and no point whining about it. Waste of time and energy. You guys deserved the cup too. So congratulations. Very proud of the All Blacks
Nope, not well balanced,,the guy in blue shirt busy crying for everything that went against nz, but if the shoe was on the other foot, would he be soo frustrated? he used the word frustrated 100 times.. he even taught the bongi incident was not a card..lol.. he grabed the kneck and rolled over to his leg, deliberate or not does not matter at that point, its dangerous..
As a South African I would like to congratulate you on a really well balanced, thoughtful and entertaining show. We have huge respect for the ABs and this final re-enforced that, it was an incredibly courageous performance from a team, that even down to 14 men for most of the game, took it to the wire, and with a bit of luck could actually have won it. I was watching in a packed out pub, and the consensus from everyone was how magnificently the AB's fought for that trophy. Springboks vs ABs is one of the most intense rivalries in all of sport, and long may it continue.
Respect to all Kiwi's who have been nothing but classy and gracious in losing a contentious final. Heartbreaking for Cane and the whole country. It means the world to South Africans, and the rest of Africa as well - I'm a zimbabwean who grew up speaking afrikaans, supporting the boks. One thing I notice is the respect between the ABs and the boks. Two giants pushing each other to new heights. Other tests normally bring a bit of scraps here and there, but very rarely in a green vs black match. I expect NZ will be there or thereabouts in 4 years - see you then friends
This is by far the best rugby show out there! always enjoy each episode, no drama or antics, simply just a good analysis of the games. Big fan from SA💪
HUGE respect from South Africa, the AB's were honestly incredible. I couldn't imagine going up against a better team in the finals. We know you guys will repay the favour one day lol. Game really could have gone either way and we got lucky. Much love from SA!
SA had a much better gameplan to ours. The forwards were supposed to be walls, and their backs covered well. Even the numerous field goal attempts, regardless of success, kept us behind their wall even more, only to be refreshed with the bench. Fkn brilliant If only our goal kicking was better 😂
As a South African I would like to congratulate the NZ team on their performance - The game was theirs to win with the opportunities ( conversion/Penalty/Putting together phases that could have realised penalties for post ) if ever there was a team that I would have liked to win it would be the AB`s - Excellent show and very honest and Humble .....
We as Saffers would have been even more gutted to lose to 14 men, and we nearly did. I said to my mates when SC was red carded that the ABs are one of the only, if not The Only team that can beat us with 14 men if we don't pick up our game. Luckily we got through it. Some of us think winning the WC makes us the best team in the world. I think it only puts us in the same bracket as the ABs. Well done to both teams for a epic, heart stopping final. The rivalry and respect continues...
I was thinking the same thing mate. You must've been relieved alright. For me, the ABs were the better team on the night, and are the best. It was the officiating that let them down. But I think there was a political agenda behind the reason why the officials officiated the way they did.
@@Useenworld Oh really ? Tell me more about this political agenda ? If the AB's are the better team then why did they fail to take their chances ? Because after all that is what champion teams do.
I really respect your response to what must be a painful loss. I feel that your concerns about refereeing are genuine to improve our game and not just sour grapes. Respect and Live from 🇿🇦
I'm more gutted for the ABs. But respect that the Bokks won, they stuck to their game plan and got all their kicks. Those I think were the defining points, if we had got our kicks over we would have won 16 - 12. Thanks for your thoughtful response too. From a gutted Kiwi 😪😊
As a South African, I am extremely happy we have won the world cup back-to-back, but I am also extremely sad and heart-broken. This is truly an end of an era for our current squad. From Siya being our first black captain, who reminds me of Mandela, to Faf with his long blonde hair and jack-russell-terrier-like tenacity; this team just oozies character and diversity like no other. The heart wrenching journey they have been through; fending off France, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat against England, holding-off the All Blacks with shear grit; it’s like their legacy was written in the stars... Even though, their performance had been questionable, fate wouldn't allow them to lose... Life in South Arica is really tough, back in 2019 the Springboks won us over by giving us hope, but now they've just plainly made us fall in love with them. Many of them are already in their 30s and will probably not be in the next world cup squad; Jacques Nienaber is moving on, so is Felix Jones; I'm sure other staff will follow cos they've all become high commodity now, which SA's economy can't afford to compete and keep... This bio-epic has come full-circle, it is at its end and that breaks my heart... What a team, what a story!
Take away the officiating and focus on ourselves. There was no need for Frizell to be in that position he was with Mbonami, he neck rolled, collapsed on his leg, got it technically wrong and he rightfully deserved to be yellow carded. Momentum lost and already on the back foot from that point. Sam Cane's yellow then red card is debateable but still it was a lapse in judgement and lack of discipline, Cane should have lowered his tackling height, every player knows this. Our errors were terribly costly our skills deserted us and ill discipline were our biggest weaknesses. Also Mo'unga missing a conversion and Jordie missing a penalty will forever haunt those two men, that's what they call 'leaving points out on the field'. As an All Blacks fan it hurts to lose but for those issuing death threats to officials is disgusting behaviour and not a reflection of true supporters. I'm glad the Foster era is done, that was a draining era to be part of and I'm looking forward to Razor bringing back the edge we've missed. I'm sorry Sam Cane but Scott Barrett or Ardie Savea should be our new captain we need to reset, start afresh and regain that killer instinct. Lastly congratulations South Africa there's no shame in losing to a great side.
We wont discuss the 3free point's THE COLONISER REF'S gave South Africa will we🤔😮1st half ref penalised Ardie then Ardie checked it Ref then said SORRY ARDIE YOYR RIGHT but still gave 3free point's to South Africa(BY LETTING S/A KICK THE PENALTY..REF KNEW WAS WRONG)DISGUSTING😂😂😂Or kolosi's head clash with Ardie yellow card allowed back on COLONISERS STUCK TOGETHER WELL 😂😂😂
An excellent show thanks Gents - it's been brilliant having your input through the RWC. The AB's continue to have our respect without doubt and Ardie deserved the accolade. I'm all rugby'ied out but it's been a great RWC journey with you guys, Thanks!
Thanks guys, by far the best analysis I have seen. Just one thing: There is a massive misconception around Barnes and Savea's penalty. He did NOT say "I saw the replay and realised I made a mistake". Exactly the opposite happened: His exact words were: "I DID NOT see the replay", meaning he was not looking at the screen when the replay was on. Then he said: "I did not see you release enough", meaning that he interpreted the play as a penalty against Savea for not allowing the tackler to place the ball. Point being, it is not that he did not realise a mistake was made and refused to reverse it. He interpreted it his way and did not see the replay so he could not change his mind.
Look at the replay. Savea didn’t tackle him, he fell from earlier contact. Savea lets him hit, then jackals. But agree that Barnes didn’t admit he was wrong.
Ahh finally this makes sense, thanks for sharing. Agree with mike tho, Ardie was jackler not tackler. For such a loud and active tmo, his silence in crucial moments was confounding. Will take time to process, but much love and all respect to the Springbok
This is why, as a South African, I enjoy New Zealand rugby too. These gentlemen were incredibly unbiased and gracious in their analysis of the game. I have nothing but respect for them.
From a Saffer who LOVES the All Blacks, it was incredible to see your 14 men almost beat my beloved Bokke. It was there for the taking, but 2 missed kicks and kickable points gone to touch instead...Cane's 🟥 was heartbreaking, I groaned immediately, it's not what you want to see in a final, but it absolutely was a 🟥 offense. Gutted for you guys, not how I wanted our showdown to go-down.
All Blacks are sneaky, sneaky smart team. They played Argentina with 14 men in the last minutes as well, good practice. I enjoyed that tight, high tension raw rugby final barring the TMO. The hurt , the joy, the what ifs and what nots are just the norm of the aftermath of a great game. The hurt and joy are results of a match. What impressed me is the respect and humility shown by the players from the 2 arch rival teams after the match. Gladiators! Thank you Boks, thank you All Blacks for an epic cliffhanger of a game.
Classy commentary. Well done. Perfect example of been able to talk/debate topics with respect. We all agree officiating a problem, you guys addressed it so well and respect to both teams
I would like to hear your analysis on when Mark gets tackled and drops the ball forward to Barrett to get the try. Also when we weren't allowed advantage for a knock on and nearly scored, we were on front foot. You should do a full analysis. Not just what went wrong for the ABs
Boys well done...All class well done. Just watched the press conference after the Boks landed back home and Siya defended Jordi B for a misunderstanding the media have taken out of context and asked the media to leave him alone. What a leader!
Full kudos to All Blacks for pushing my team to the absolute limit, INSPITE of playing with 14 guys!!! When it happened, I really thought that red card was going to ruin the game, but you guys just kept the pressure on. I hate red cards. Whether for us OR against. Much respect New Zealand. I scrummed, rucked and tackled that whole game.......the sofa ended up in the passage, the carpet was knotted under the coffee table....MAN I played the full 80 min without being subbed! It was exhausting just to watch. GO BOKKE
I’ve seen this incorrectly discussed across many platforms - Wayne Barnes did not apologize for the wrong call he apologized for not watching the replay on the big screen. And then reiterated standing by his decision that he saw in the moment. That’s very different from admitting he got it wrong.
Wayne B didn't apologise for making a bad call he only agreed to it when he admitted it to Ardie that it was a bad call which ultimately resulted in winning the game for SA! You don't have to be the best just because you lifted the world cup. All Black's were the true champions on the night!
Watching this as a Saffa. The respect and rivalry we have really is a rare and incredible thing and i couldn’t think of a better final regardless of the result!
Your show rocks gentlemen! It makes the Breakdown look like it’s having breakdown. As rugby lovers we all enjoy and appreciate different aspects of this complex yet beautiful game. Whilst I do enjoy the NZ style of play and some of the breathtaking skills they excute, I also really enjoy the hard physical side of scrums, rucks and mauls that the Boks are so good at. Finding a balance where the fans of different countries can enjoy both is the holy grail. What’s important is to not alienate a certain style of play because your nation/fan base doesn’t employ it. The cool thing about rugby is that it isn’t myopic. A team can have 70kg scrummy playing alongside a140 +kg prop. It caters for everyone and that makes it unique and so enjoyable.
I'm a Springboks supporter and this program here shows why the Boks and New Zealand are so far ahead of the rest when it comes to our beautiful game. We play hard, we play fair, we don't quit, we don't complain too much, we make it HURT and afterwards we go for a beer. Massive respect to the ABs for really bringing it during the final and I'm of course so proud of our boys for getting another World Cup! I simply loved how Siya Kolisi spoke about Ardie Savea getting the Player of the Year award and how proud he was of Ardie! And how both of them affirmed what great friends they are until they step onto the field, where they both have to bring it 100% OUT OF RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER! It's like bringing anything less would be disrespectful to your opponent. I love that!
Thanks for a great show gents. Maybe a talking point for next week: As you know by now, Rassie started planning for RWC 2023 in 2018. What we also now know is that Rassie will take over the coaching job from Nienaber. What you don't know is that Rassie started planning for RWC 2027 in 2020. Yes, the Boks are going for 1st to 5 and 3 in a row. Also, the ABs have shown enormous grit in that final and although they did not get it across the line, they earned respect from so many South Africans as one of our greatest ever opponents. Congratulations to Ardie for his much deserved recognition.
Great show. Bok fan here. The All Blacks did the jersey and their country proud. a phenomenal display. It is what we expect from you and what we always try to live up to.
James is what we call a Sangoma in South Africa, the G gets them all right he said it. He said we are taking it and we took it. I must be honest lads this show has been great continuity is needed. FYI I am going to be late for work again because of you lads
Echoing the sentiments of graciousness and humility in your commentary. They way the ABs fought back should be an inspiration for any team! Keep up the good work.
Well done lads. You make me Kiwi proud with how you handle the content even handed, objective, non imposing. Although we need the roll your eyes gusto and bravado of Mils, JK and Goldie for public spirit too. Still the show essentially is unassuming, astute, sensible and laidback. A true refection of our culture and peoples. GIVE 'EM A TASTE Of KIWI
I agree to an extent that I find (in no particular order) that Goldie, JK & Justin Marshall are due for the bench while I personally would replace those with the likes of Kane Hames & Andrew Merhtens. The folk I enjoy in the UK are the likes of (in no particular order) Jim Hamilton, David Flatman, Marin Bayfield, Austin Healey (in small doses) etc due to their insights, approach, style, comments etc.
The way the AB's played with 14 was incredible! It did not even look like they were a man down for most of the game. It made this Springbok supporter very nervous all the way through.
Kicker wins games. Both Mounga and Jordie will be feeling their missed attempts hard, especially Mounga, who played his last AB game. That was their clutch moment, one that you train and dream about all your playing life as a kicker.
Hi Gents , as a Safrican from Cape Town. Must Compliment you Gents on a Superb show , like the Neutral Respect and discussions around the game . Been watching Many of various channels and discussions throughout the World Cup , But You Gents are head and shoulders above the rest !! We know the 100 year history between the two Countries and also Being the Pinnacle of Clashes in the World Rugby!! If there is one team that I do not mind loosing too is NZ !! Huge Respect to NZ , but More importantly is the the friendships built between players after the game !! Super Respect to Both Teams !!
Awesome Show boys, Much respect to you fellas. Happy as a Saffer, and feeling your pain. Thanx for a getting to the nitty gritty of it all making Rugby the winner!!! Lets all try and keep Rugby the fantastic game it is win or loose.
What a great show. Well done guys. World player of the year for Ardie Savea is well deserved. The Al Blacks are without a doubt one of the greatest teams around and long live the Springboks vs All Blacks history of setting standards year after year. It's easy to be a coach critic, but it's a game of small margins, and your balanced views are awesome.
Another great episode. I'm a SAFFA and I fully agree with you guys on many aspects discussed, and also feel that just because the AB's lost should not preclude you from being critical and having an honest conversation as you have. Sour grapes is not necessarily being critical, its how you go about being critical. You guys have been very honest, sensible and respectful in how you have addressed your concerns so thank you, well done, and as always, respect to you guys, the AB's and your supporters.
Great talk thanks everyone. I think Player of the year was between Eben and Ardie so I can definitely accept and respect that Ardie won it, but I really think Jacques Nienaber was done hard by not getting coach of the year. If you look at the crucial calls that he had to and wanted to make with regards to taking off Manie after 30 minutes (against England), picking only Pollard in the final, the different styles that the Springboks adapted to playing, the 7-1 split, etc. he (and Rassie) is by far the best coach of the year.
Brilliant show guys thanks for a proper analysis of the final. Much respect for the All blacks hope to do it again with you guys. Well done to my Bokke super proud of my team. ❤
Yeah must say, overwhelmingly from SA, when all the fans from the other teams up north were counting the ABs out, we from SA were still respecting the ABs and the vast majority believed the ABs will be in the final. Great respect for the ABs from us
Agreed. No lack of respect for the French, but I preferred playing France even after the massive win against the Abs in the warm up and their loss against France in the pool. We know what you guys are capable of. My opinion felt vindicated when you beat Ireland. Massive respect to you guys for the way you played this world cup. I feel gutted for Sam Cane. Even when it happened during the game I didn't want it to be that way. We all want to see 15 against 15.
Said this before, and taking into account these guys are Kiwis and showing a wee bit frustration at the refereeing/TMO influence on the game, which is understandable but this is the best post match rugby analysis out there.
I’ve seen a lot of sentiment around NZ’ers feeling that they should have won the game. I think there’s a difference between having chances that meant you could have won looking back, and that you should have won. With the final I think it’s the former not the latter. More factors were in favour of NZ going into the game such as an extra day’s rest, SA having back to back tough games in qf and sf. The biggest one was Bongi then going down in the second minute which completely affected how SA was going to use their their second pack. I’m not sure people realise how big a speed bump that actually was and how SA had to go into game management mode basically from the start. For all that, NZ never once led in the game. Credit to them for the effort they put in the periods where it was 14 vs 15, but I think if there were no cards and Bongi didn’t go off, SA would have been able to maximise their bench and would have won more comfortably.
and, let's not forget, SA where also playing with 14 men for about 20 minutes in the second half, and specially the final 7 minutes or so when SA could have buckled under the pressure but they did not.
My thoughts exactly, bongi going down was a disaster. If kolisi had passed left to Arendse / arendse had touched down a few minutes later we would be having a different conversation. All in all a great performance by the All blacks, savea was a beast.
The AB's are the greatest opponent's. Was a privilege to play you guys in the final. This is a great break down of the game. Thank you and see you guys soon!
I've enjoyed these videos during the RWC, nice work gents. On the ref issue: Rassie made a video, with evidence, about the inconsistencies and everyone laughed and called him bitter. Now it's all everyone is talking about. The Boks adapted out of necessity while most teams played the same way.
So can nobody speak about it now? And not everyone commenting or talking about it are necessarily the ones who laughed and called him bitter. Allow the conversation so that Rassies words are finally heard
Wayne Barnes said he did not see it as Ardie, as he did not release. What about the 56 minute with Deon Fourie and line judge changing the call to a penalty, that led to ABs try.
One just has to say this. All refs make mistakes. At this level the ref would never favour a team. The laws of the game just need to be simplified and streamlined. Appreciate the unbiased approach of the panel
I appreciate how you started this conversation and how you're recognizing and applauding our accomplishment. Although the Springboks performed horribly at line outs, they excelled in defense and kickoff, largely due to Handre Pollard's flawless precision. This place loves rugby. Even in rural and agricultural areas, it is played, and surprisingly large numbers of people from all over the nation attend-some traveling long distances, others strolling, hitchhiking, and some riding bicycles, donkey carts, and horses. Rugby competitions typically take place over the Easter break, particularly in the Eastern Cape's underdeveloped towns and rural areas. The mixed-race teams now get together there to show off who they are. This sport is part of who we are; we live it, love it, and it is part of our culture.
The reason I am a fan of the ABs is just like your show they are gracious in victory and humble in defeat from the first game I watched with Sean Fitzpatrick to Sam Cane have always been like this absolutely number one in my opinion well done Springboks on the victory
When the best of the best plays against each other you can expect a tough game. Well done to my Springboks for bringing the trophy home. I have two brothers living in New Zealand and they will always be proudly Springboks supporters. I love the All Blacks and yes i am sad for them but i know they will always fight back and win all their games. 🎉🎉🎉Well done to the two BEST world rugby players for reaching the finals.
Great show! I enjoyed the very well balanced presentation that tackled issues without being emotional about the outcome of the World cup even though this must have been really difficult.
From a Saffa. One of those games once again that could have gone anyway. The AB's were very unlucky. They missed a few opportunities that should have won the game for them. It is one of those games between the Boks and AB's that one or two big decisions can decide the game. Sometimes you are on the right side or the wrong side of a wrong ref decision. Total respect to the All Blacks. Hard luck.
Wow for the first time I get hear some real sense of what happened in the game last night... with real honesty and without bias all of you guys deserve the best.. great stuff 👏 🙌
Totally agree on TMO calls, thank you for the consistency guys. As a South African supporter i can agree, we get frustrated at some calls (we remember Rassies hour long rant…) We need to get consistency. But thx for the show (much better than the other kiwi one (you know the broken down one 🤭)
I don't think anybody I have listened to, understood what the impact of losing Bongi to foul play had on the Springboks. It took away their scrum dominance as well as lineout attack play and a lot of our attacking prowess. You also have to factor in the absence of Malcolm Marx, Lood de Jager, Lukhanyo Amm and Pollard (in the Ireland game)
It wasn't to foul play it was obviously an accident. Your fool coach took a stupid risk, got caught out, and the ref making ridiculous decisions saved you egg on your face
It was dirty play. But justice was served when you couldn’t make a kick to win. Don’t blame the ref you clown because you had multiple opportunities to win that game. SA only let you in the game by making a few mistakes so count yourself lucky you got that close.
Nienaber managed to take a team, with only 1 player in the team of the year, and win a WC back to back with the hardest route ever. Well done Andy Farrel. Got so close to a semi
I would just like to say after listening to this podcast this is why South Africans respect and appreciate the All Blacks. There are a lot of naysayers online at the moment and quite often they are All Black supporters dissing the match thinking they should have won but you guys have shown what the majority of supporters think and then analyse the game perfectly with an unbiased approach. And given South Africa the credit where credit is due. Thank you that means a lot to us and much appreciated We thought very hard for this and is quite upsetting when we hear people putting us down looking for excuses saying we were lucky to win three matches in a row by one point. People keep The game could have gone anyway no it couldn't We would have found a way regardless that's what makes this Springbok team so special. Oh and four missed drop goals by South Africa..
Hosting a show or being a guest on a show means an actual discussion can occur. When commenting, threads aren’t places for discussion…people really only able to post brief thoughts.
anyone with issues from the ref hasnt watched the last few years. also head contact directly on shoulder and no bend in the knees is begging for a red card. improve technique, problem over, dont allow the ref to play. be smarter. less blame.
I appreciate the difficulty of walking the tight line between legitimate feedback, discussion about the nature of referring and not sounding like sour grapes. And I think this crew did very well in this discussion. Honestly, it was only when I re-watched the game a second time I saw just how much the TMO was running the show. I completely did not see it when the game was live as I could not hear anything else but my racing heart. Goodness me, these last 3 games left me an emotional mess! There are no easy solutions here but yes, something has to be done to improve the flow of the game. And its only when you rewatch the really older games (late 90's) that you see how much the game has changed. How much slower it is now. I know one of the main drivers is safety and I wont even accidentally suggest that compromises must be made on safety. But I am certain there is a way to keep or even improve safety while making the game flow more fluid ... and keeping the identity of the game. Its a fantastic game, maybe the best team game out there. Im going to miss this tournament. We knew this would be best tournament in the history of the game but we were absolutely not ready for what we got. Gonna miss this show too. Over the past 2 months throughout the tournament, it had become a staple for what I listen to every Tuesday morning (SA Time). Well done chaps, great show.
With regards to the call against Ardie that led to the penalty , the same argument can be made for the call against Peter Steph against England that led to their first penalty. After the reply you can see that peter steph won the ball fairly but ref sticks with decision
Will have more to say about this podcast as I'm watching it on Supersport. The Breakdown cannot compare with this. Just this scrums, rucks, mauls and solid defence is as beautiful as running rugby. Sometimes better
That Judo neck roll by Frizzell on Bongi is one of the most dangerous things in rugby, it shifts all the weight on a twisting knee. Many players do it, and I look away everytime a player does it. This wouldn't have been as close with Bongi on the park, no scrum or Lineout for 78min
Both teams had a tough Rugby World Cup, with some really challenging moments leading up to the tournament. New Zealand faced difficulties under Fossie, resulting in a roller-coaster period. On the other hand, the Springboks had to compete against the best teams in the world to retain the cup. As a South African, I was genuinely concerned about how much the Springboks had left in the tank. After a grueling match against a physical French team and navigating a demanding group phase, they appeared fatigued and essentially exhausted when facing England. They also just managed to scrape through that one. In the initial minutes against the All Blacks, the Springboks seemed stronger, but the question was always how long they could maintain that level of play. Without getting into the specifics of Cane's red card and the debate around it, the All Blacks being reduced to 14 players somewhat leveled the playing field. This is because they hadn't faced the same grueling path to the final as the Springboks had. These are just my two cents, but the All Blacks definitely demonstrated their mettle. Congratulations to them as well.
Thank you for a balanced show, gents. I want to warn you that with every World Cup win, we as South Africa gather a whole new group of glory boy supporters who don't know anything about the history of the game. Please bare with us as you hear things from these fair-weather fans like 'The Boks are the greatest team ever / no one is better cos we've won 4 World Cups' and similar. This is as frustrating to us loyal longtime supporters as it is to you guys. If you've been watching the game for 20-30 years consistently, anyone would know that the ABs have been the most successful team of all time (in all sports), they have played the more attacking, attractive game, and that the Boks' successes are so often borne out of our Super Rugby rivalry years with NZ. Moreso, nothing has surpassed the ABs dominance and flair of 2011-2016 yet. That said, I have no doubt that with finals rugby over now, the Boks will start exploring their attacking game more as they were doing before (Libbok, Moodie, Williams etc) - and our next game with you guys will be a lot more wild and entertaining! Well done ABs - your guys all played like heroes on Saturday, and none of them deserved to lose.
Bok supporter here. Agree 100% with the Ardie penalty. As soon as I saw that I thought it was harsh. Shouldve been a pen to NZ. To counter NZ had 2 kicks to win the game the officiating didn't lose them the game they had lots of chances to win
The margins at the top are so close, any of the top 10 countries can win on a specific day. The rugby laws are sometimes too complicated & even conflicting, making referee & TMO decisions vital in outcomes. But congratulations to the Springboks, they were just that slightest of margin better & yes luckier in RWC 2023!!! It was thrilling & edge to edge nailbiting stuff and also heroic at times!!!
42 of the 55 minutes was complaining about the umpiring. No discussion on the SA defense or the AB not taking penalty points. No discussion on the actual game.
When Rassie Erasmus emphasised fairness and good officiating about Refs,Not one Nation supported him except South Africa because they felt hard down by the Ref and Tmo in the 1st leg of Brittish n Irish Lion Tour now that Rassie is adapted his players to play on how the game is being officiated and no longer critises the Refs and Tmo, Everyone is doing the same thing now that you All bashed Rassie for doing it we can all say Rassie is the Goat i cant wait to see the innovations he gonna come with next year and prepare to see 8-0 splits Newzealand should be proud they’ve players played their hearts in the final best team won end of the day
With that logic, no nations should forever speak about it and advancement stops. Because nobody stood up and supported means nobody can ever speak again. Let’s see how far that goes in a life attitude
As a South African I enjoyed your show a lot, although the English is sometimes too fast for me. Thank you for giving credit to SA and the Boks. I also think Rassie made a good job of it in spite of the quota system imposed by the ANC government on rugby but not on soccer. Thanks to the AB's for being worthy opponents, it was a tremendous game. I think coaching rugby teams have come a long way since 1995, they are all of a high standard. I my add that it is a known fact in Paleo Psychology to fight harder when a mate is either killed or disabled and that is why the AB's fought so hard after the red. The scrum was just as good. Good show.
South Africa have been saying all tournament that “defence wins matches”….and they proved it…. 209+ tackles compared to 80+ from the All Blacks in the final…Says it all….
All Blacks really stepped up to overcome a brilliant Irish side. They were unlucky in the final. Respect our rugby rivals in the land of the silver fern!
Hi guys Just watched this episode - Excellent show. Discovered your show about halfway through the RWC, and thoroughly enjoy the opinions and discussions. Fair, balanced, informed - just lekker to watch! As a South African I must reiterate what so many of us feel: Always love playing you guys, always feel lucky to have a win, never feel bad to lose against the great All Blacks. And most of all, the mutual respect, friendly relations and of course the banter! Also love that you guys get what Siya and his team mean to us, for us. Lovely show, well done. Cheers, from a proud South African.
I believe both bokke and AB fans, were not impressed with the ref situation. Personally, I was bleak when cane got red carded. It was just something I didn't want. Sadly, the reffing wasn't consistent, but the overriding theme from kiwi's I hear is, you could have won anyway. Which I think is the most important thing here. The rivalry is founded on respect. When you win or when you lose. And in SA, we have nothing but respect for the AB's.
We kiwis should be proud of how far this team actually went. We were written off by many including alot of our own and the resolve we saw from this team was amazing to see. To think we pushed the defending champions to within one point a man down for a large part of the game is something to be proud of. On the other hand we need to reflect on a couple of things and that is goal kicking and discipline. Both of these have been issues over the past several years and if we were to come up short it was always going to come down to someone being carded for a lazy technique or missed kickable goals and exactly that put us on the back foot in the biggest game of all. Im excited to turn the page on this era and see what Robertson can bring in, you can bet there will be a huge focus on discipline. Congrats to SA, their defense was out of this world and nobody can argue they deserved to win. Truly a great team.
Like James Parsons alluded to, the interjection of the TMO is bewildering. He also forgot the forearm fend of Eban to Cane in the first half which is also a clear yellow. If the TMO is jumping in for the Frizzel yellow, why not jump in there. It was very easy and clear to see. I imagine that Kolisi doesn't get a card unless Ardie has the trainer come on to draw attention to the contact. If Degroot does the same its yellow. ABs game management to draw attention to the contact is too staunch and old school. You can hear Kolisi constantly talking to the ref or trying to hollywood and draw the call, all the Boks know to go down, just like Marks did in Twikkers. It's unfortunate but players have to play for the camera, not the ball.
About five years ago a narrative was started that officials were giving the All Blacks too much favour “because they have been so successful”. McCaw was often cited as an example. You have to wonder if the discipline was actually any worse in this world cup, or whether that narrative finally bore some fruit in the last twelve months. Not the only factor, not the main factor, but a consistent pressure guiding officiating over quite a period. The TMO was very focused on them. He had to look pretty hard for that knock on and actually contradict a decision already made by the ref on the spot with a clear view. That was a constructive intervention, not a “bad call” or mistake.
The Boks fan base have stood by the ABs and Fozzie during their dark days and still today we say " We admire and respect you guys and always will. 💚💛🇿🇦
Was there to watch the ABs at Ellis Park when they saved Fozzie’s job. They were immense that day and it was clear to every Bok fan that they would rise to the occasion at the World Cup.
@@googlename5125the Boks had good two tries disallowed and DW carded in the first 10min of game. Dumb play by Wiese at the end of game cost the Boks rather than anything else
@@johncraig9011 and i think the try that was given the ball went forward in last 'pass'/knock. In the end i think there were iffy calls both ways. If we lost we would be complaining about wrong calls etc. Think the refs and tmo had a good game.
We hearing tmo should be less involved. Then when less involved we will hear tmo must be more involved due to more incorrect calls. Nz lose complain about the ref, if sa lose we would be complaining (there were iffy calls both ways). In the end you will never satisfy everyone... gotta feel for the refs.
Overall the ref/tmo and assistants had a rather good game.
Thank you guys for a great and fair analysis! Imagine just for a second mixing the bok team with the kiwis for an insane 'dream team'. Thanx again from SA and well done AB's!
I'm South African and Boks supporter, but fellows you have just earned my respect. Well balanced and objective content. If it was not SA winning, I would have wanted the AB to win it. I take my hat off for Fozzie and Sam, never looked for excuses instead owned up. SA has lots of respect for the AB.
Yeah as a kiwi and through and through AB fan. Agree with these blokes. It is what it is.
Hope world rugby look into things for every teams sake. Not just this game.
But at the end of the day, it is what it is and no point whining about it. Waste of time and energy.
You guys deserved the cup too. So congratulations.
Very proud of the All Blacks
Glad it was two southern teams in final
Aaron Smiths try was as much a try as Kurt Lee Ardense was
the coach was goin off on the tmo though.. think he prefers wrong decisions
Nope, not well balanced,,the guy in blue shirt busy crying for everything that went against nz, but if the shoe was on the other foot, would he be soo frustrated? he used the word frustrated 100 times.. he even taught the bongi incident was not a card..lol.. he grabed the kneck and rolled over to his leg, deliberate or not does not matter at that point, its dangerous..
As a South African I would like to congratulate you on a really well balanced, thoughtful and entertaining show.
We have huge respect for the ABs and this final re-enforced that, it was an incredibly courageous performance from a team, that even down to 14 men for most of the game, took it to the wire, and with a bit of luck could actually have won it.
I was watching in a packed out pub, and the consensus from everyone was how magnificently the AB's fought for that trophy.
Springboks vs ABs is one of the most intense rivalries in all of sport, and long may it continue.
Respect to all Kiwi's who have been nothing but classy and gracious in losing a contentious final. Heartbreaking for Cane and the whole country. It means the world to South Africans, and the rest of Africa as well - I'm a zimbabwean who grew up speaking afrikaans, supporting the boks. One thing I notice is the respect between the ABs and the boks. Two giants pushing each other to new heights. Other tests normally bring a bit of scraps here and there, but very rarely in a green vs black match. I expect NZ will be there or thereabouts in 4 years - see you then friends
This is by far the best rugby show out there! always enjoy each episode, no drama or antics, simply just a good analysis of the games. Big fan from SA💪
HUGE respect from South Africa, the AB's were honestly incredible. I couldn't imagine going up against a better team in the finals. We know you guys will repay the favour one day lol. Game really could have gone either way and we got lucky. Much love from SA!
SA had a much better gameplan to ours.
The forwards were supposed to be walls, and their backs covered well. Even the numerous field goal attempts, regardless of success, kept us behind their wall even more, only to be refreshed with the bench. Fkn brilliant
If only our goal kicking was better 😂
As a South African I would like to congratulate the NZ team on their performance - The game was theirs to win with the opportunities ( conversion/Penalty/Putting together phases that could have realised penalties for post ) if ever there was a team that I would have liked to win it would be the AB`s - Excellent show and very honest and Humble .....
We as Saffers would have been even more gutted to lose to 14 men, and we nearly did. I said to my mates when SC was red carded that the ABs are one of the only, if not The Only team that can beat us with 14 men if we don't pick up our game. Luckily we got through it. Some of us think winning the WC makes us the best team in the world. I think it only puts us in the same bracket as the ABs. Well done to both teams for a epic, heart stopping final. The rivalry and respect continues...
Amen.
I was thinking the same thing mate. You must've been relieved alright. For me, the ABs were the better team on the night, and are the best. It was the officiating that let them down. But I think there was a political agenda behind the reason why the officials officiated the way they did.
@@Useenworld Oh really ? Tell me more about this political agenda ? If the AB's are the better team then why did they fail to take their chances ? Because after all that is what champion teams do.
Most South Africans are such apologists... My goodness!
Snap out of it, we are the WORLD CHAMPIONS..!
Appreciate the sentiment. The Boks played a defensive master class. Looking forward to the next match.
As a Springbok fan, Ardie Savea is an incredible player. Well deserved!
I really respect your response to what must be a painful loss. I feel that your concerns about refereeing are genuine to improve our game and not just sour grapes. Respect and Live from 🇿🇦
I'm more gutted for the ABs. But respect that the Bokks won, they stuck to their game plan and got all their kicks. Those I think were the defining points, if we had got our kicks over we would have won 16 - 12. Thanks for your thoughtful response too. From a gutted Kiwi 😪😊
As a South African, I am extremely happy we have won the world cup back-to-back, but I am also extremely sad and heart-broken.
This is truly an end of an era for our current squad. From Siya being our first black captain, who reminds me of Mandela, to Faf with his long blonde hair and jack-russell-terrier-like tenacity; this team just oozies character and diversity like no other.
The heart wrenching journey they have been through; fending off France, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat against England, holding-off the All Blacks with shear grit; it’s like their legacy was written in the stars... Even though, their performance had been questionable, fate wouldn't allow them to lose...
Life in South Arica is really tough, back in 2019 the Springboks won us over by giving us hope, but now they've just plainly made us fall in love with them.
Many of them are already in their 30s and will probably not be in the next world cup squad; Jacques Nienaber is moving on, so is Felix Jones; I'm sure other staff will follow cos they've all become high commodity now, which SA's economy can't afford to compete and keep...
This bio-epic has come full-circle, it is at its end and that breaks my heart... What a team, what a story!
Beautifully written post.
Take away the officiating and focus on ourselves. There was no need for Frizell to be in that position he was with Mbonami, he neck rolled, collapsed on his leg, got it technically wrong and he rightfully deserved to be yellow carded. Momentum lost and already on the back foot from that point. Sam Cane's yellow then red card is debateable but still it was a lapse in judgement and lack of discipline, Cane should have lowered his tackling height, every player knows this. Our errors were terribly costly our skills deserted us and ill discipline were our biggest weaknesses. Also Mo'unga missing a conversion and Jordie missing a penalty will forever haunt those two men, that's what they call 'leaving points out on the field'. As an All Blacks fan it hurts to lose but for those issuing death threats to officials is disgusting behaviour and not a reflection of true supporters. I'm glad the Foster era is done, that was a draining era to be part of and I'm looking forward to Razor bringing back the edge we've missed. I'm sorry Sam Cane but Scott Barrett or Ardie Savea should be our new captain we need to reset, start afresh and regain that killer instinct. Lastly congratulations South Africa there's no shame in losing to a great side.
Probably the best and most composed comment I've read from a kiwi, well done to you mate
We wont discuss the 3free point's THE COLONISER REF'S gave South Africa will we🤔😮1st half ref penalised Ardie then Ardie checked it Ref then said SORRY ARDIE YOYR RIGHT but still gave 3free point's to South Africa(BY LETTING S/A KICK THE PENALTY..REF KNEW WAS WRONG)DISGUSTING😂😂😂Or kolosi's head clash with Ardie yellow card allowed back on COLONISERS STUCK TOGETHER WELL 😂😂😂
@@turangatohiariki3042 Not a good comment. Inaccurate
@@rorysullivan4913 Please elaborate make assumption's & no back story🤷🏽♂️
@@turangatohiariki3042😂 You honestly don't know the rules do you 😂
An excellent show thanks Gents - it's been brilliant having your input through the RWC. The AB's continue to have our respect without doubt and Ardie deserved the accolade. I'm all rugby'ied out but it's been a great RWC journey with you guys, Thanks!
Thanks guys, by far the best analysis I have seen.
Just one thing: There is a massive misconception around Barnes and Savea's penalty. He did NOT say "I saw the replay and realised I made a mistake". Exactly the opposite happened: His exact words were: "I DID NOT see the replay", meaning he was not looking at the screen when the replay was on. Then he said: "I did not see you release enough", meaning that he interpreted the play as a penalty against Savea for not allowing the tackler to place the ball. Point being, it is not that he did not realise a mistake was made and refused to reverse it. He interpreted it his way and did not see the replay so he could not change his mind.
AND, after much scrutinising... he actually got the call correct
Look at the replay. Savea didn’t tackle him, he fell from earlier contact. Savea lets him hit, then jackals. But agree that Barnes didn’t admit he was wrong.
Ahh finally this makes sense, thanks for sharing. Agree with mike tho, Ardie was jackler not tackler. For such a loud and active tmo, his silence in crucial moments was confounding. Will take time to process, but much love and all respect to the Springbok
Foward try fromt talea to barret why is this not spoken off
They don't talk about the forward pass try😂
This is why, as a South African, I enjoy New Zealand rugby too. These gentlemen were incredibly unbiased and gracious in their analysis of the game. I have nothing but respect for them.
So much better to listen to vs The Breakdown, very glad that our broadcaster are making your episodes available for us as well.
what the AB's achieved was absolutely remarkable, what warriors they are. From a Bok fan
From a Saffer who LOVES the All Blacks, it was incredible to see your 14 men almost beat my beloved Bokke. It was there for the taking, but 2 missed kicks and kickable points gone to touch instead...Cane's 🟥 was heartbreaking, I groaned immediately, it's not what you want to see in a final, but it absolutely was a 🟥 offense. Gutted for you guys, not how I wanted our showdown to go-down.
All Blacks are sneaky, sneaky smart team. They played Argentina with 14 men in the last minutes as well, good practice. I enjoyed that tight, high tension raw rugby final barring the TMO. The hurt , the joy, the what ifs and what nots are just the norm of the aftermath of a great game. The hurt and joy are results of a match. What impressed me is the respect and humility shown by the players from the 2 arch rival teams after the match. Gladiators!
Thank you Boks, thank you All Blacks for an epic cliffhanger of a game.
Any comment on the De Groot flat nose bakkie??? The TMO got stuck into everything else?? Yip, no issue Cane was a RED to the rules.
Probably the best rugby pod out there much love from South Africa! Thank you AB's you for the great game
Classy commentary. Well done. Perfect example of been able to talk/debate topics with respect. We all agree officiating a problem, you guys addressed it so well and respect to both teams
I have a huge respect for ABs. We love you guys. You will forever be our second best team. Love from South Africa.
I would like to hear your analysis on when Mark gets tackled and drops the ball forward to Barrett to get the try. Also when we weren't allowed advantage for a knock on and nearly scored, we were on front foot. You should do a full analysis. Not just what went wrong for the ABs
Boys well done...All class well done. Just watched the press conference after the Boks landed back home and Siya defended Jordi B for a misunderstanding the media have taken out of context and asked the media to leave him alone. What a leader!
Full kudos to All Blacks for pushing my team to the absolute limit, INSPITE of playing with 14 guys!!! When it happened, I really thought that red card was going to ruin the game, but you guys just kept the pressure on. I hate red cards. Whether for us OR against. Much respect New Zealand. I scrummed, rucked and tackled that whole game.......the sofa ended up in the passage, the carpet was knotted under the coffee table....MAN I played the full 80 min without being subbed! It was exhausting just to watch. GO BOKKE
I’ve seen this incorrectly discussed across many platforms - Wayne Barnes did not apologize for the wrong call he apologized for not watching the replay on the big screen. And then reiterated standing by his decision that he saw in the moment. That’s very different from admitting he got it wrong.
Tell that to @turangatohiariki3042, poor chap can't let go of it 🤣
@@glen1482 probably because he now has to get the tattoo removed....
@@glen1482 yeah there's obviously something not right upstairs with that fella
@@Karma-qt4jihaha thats funny as
Wayne B didn't apologise for making a bad call he only agreed to it when he admitted it to Ardie that it was a bad call which ultimately resulted in winning the game for SA! You don't have to be the best just because you lifted the world cup. All Black's were the true champions on the night!
I respect this show more then the breakdown.
Watching this as a Saffa. The respect and rivalry we have really is a rare and incredible thing and i couldn’t think of a better final regardless of the result!
You have a great program. Thank you and welldone. From SA
Your show rocks gentlemen! It makes the Breakdown look like it’s having breakdown. As rugby lovers we all enjoy and appreciate different aspects of this complex yet beautiful game. Whilst I do enjoy the NZ style of play and some of the breathtaking skills they excute, I also really enjoy the hard physical side of scrums, rucks and mauls that the Boks are so good at. Finding a balance where the fans of different countries can enjoy both is the holy grail. What’s important is to not alienate a certain style of play because your nation/fan base doesn’t employ it. The cool thing about rugby is that it isn’t myopic. A team can have 70kg scrummy playing alongside a140 +kg prop. It caters for everyone and that makes it unique and so enjoyable.
I'm a Springboks supporter and this program here shows why the Boks and New Zealand are so far ahead of the rest when it comes to our beautiful game. We play hard, we play fair, we don't quit, we don't complain too much, we make it HURT and afterwards we go for a beer. Massive respect to the ABs for really bringing it during the final and I'm of course so proud of our boys for getting another World Cup! I simply loved how Siya Kolisi spoke about Ardie Savea getting the Player of the Year award and how proud he was of Ardie! And how both of them affirmed what great friends they are until they step onto the field, where they both have to bring it 100% OUT OF RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER! It's like bringing anything less would be disrespectful to your opponent. I love that!
Thanks for a great show gents. Maybe a talking point for next week: As you know by now, Rassie started planning for RWC 2023 in 2018. What we also now know is that Rassie will take over the coaching job from Nienaber. What you don't know is that Rassie started planning for RWC 2027 in 2020. Yes, the Boks are going for 1st to 5 and 3 in a row. Also, the ABs have shown enormous grit in that final and although they did not get it across the line, they earned respect from so many South Africans as one of our greatest ever opponents. Congratulations to Ardie for his much deserved recognition.
New Zealand is not 'one of' South Africa's greatest ever opponents - they are SA's GREATEST EVER opponent. THE END.
You had to be stupid after such insightful information
Watch this space - with the depth in SA Rugby, the next 2 RWC will remain in Africa. Place R100 with the bookies..
Some players are already in the 2023 squad.... Young and Confident 💯
Great show. Bok fan here. The All Blacks did the jersey and their country proud. a phenomenal display. It is what we expect from you and what we always try to live up to.
James is what we call a Sangoma in South Africa, the G gets them all right he said it. He said we are taking it and we took it. I must be honest lads this show has been great continuity is needed. FYI I am going to be late for work again because of you lads
Echoing the sentiments of graciousness and humility in your commentary.
They way the ABs fought back should be an inspiration for any team! Keep up the good work.
Well done lads. You make me Kiwi proud with how you handle the content even handed, objective, non imposing. Although we need the roll your eyes gusto and bravado of Mils, JK and Goldie for public spirit too. Still the show essentially is unassuming, astute, sensible and laidback. A true refection of our culture and peoples. GIVE 'EM A TASTE Of KIWI
I agree to an extent that I find (in no particular order) that Goldie, JK & Justin Marshall are due for the bench while I personally would replace those with the likes of Kane Hames & Andrew Merhtens. The folk I enjoy in the UK are the likes of (in no particular order) Jim Hamilton, David Flatman, Marin Bayfield, Austin Healey (in small doses) etc due to their insights, approach, style, comments etc.
@@lovemysport7902 Hamilton can join the bench. Something off about that guy.
Greetings from South Africa. You guys gave us a battle. We respect your team ABs
The way the AB's played with 14 was incredible! It did not even look like they were a man down for most of the game. It made this Springbok supporter very nervous all the way through.
Loved this show throughout the world cup, staying beyond the world cup for more.....from SA
South Africa won us fair and square... they didn't force the world rugby officials... congrats to them
Yes and with a lot of help from the Ref and TMO 😂
@@teeboxmedia 🤡
Refs get decisions wrong on both sides. It didn't have anything to do with calls. The best team won, period.
@@Rbcop1no
@@teeboxmedia sore loser
Kicker wins games. Both Mounga and Jordie will be feeling their missed attempts hard, especially Mounga, who played his last AB game. That was their clutch moment, one that you train and dream about all your playing life as a kicker.
Mounga will be there in 2027
Out of the 4 World Cups SA have won, they only scored tries in 1. The other 3 were all from penalties or drop kick.
That’s telling!
@@HeeniKeke and out of the same 4 world cups, NO team had scored a try against SA, until this final, and also, only 1 try.
@@HeeniKekeIt tells you more about the scoring system of rugby union than anything else
The Springboks are far more intelligent than the All Blacks
Hi Gents , as a Safrican from Cape Town.
Must Compliment you Gents on a Superb show , like the Neutral Respect and discussions around the game .
Been watching Many of various channels and discussions throughout the World Cup , But You Gents are head and shoulders above the rest !!
We know the 100 year history between the two Countries and also Being the Pinnacle of Clashes in the World Rugby!!
If there is one team that I do not mind loosing too is NZ !!
Huge Respect to NZ , but More importantly is the the friendships built between players after the game !!
Super Respect to Both Teams !!
Awesome Show boys, Much respect to you fellas. Happy as a Saffer, and feeling your pain. Thanx for a getting to the nitty gritty of it all making Rugby the winner!!!
Lets all try and keep Rugby the fantastic game it is win or loose.
What a great show. Well done guys. World player of the year for Ardie Savea is well deserved. The Al Blacks are without a doubt one of the greatest teams around and long live the Springboks vs All Blacks history of setting standards year after year. It's easy to be a coach critic, but it's a game of small margins, and your balanced views are awesome.
Another great episode. I'm a SAFFA and I fully agree with you guys on many aspects discussed, and also feel that just because the AB's lost should not preclude you from being critical and having an honest conversation as you have. Sour grapes is not necessarily being critical, its how you go about being critical. You guys have been very honest, sensible and respectful in how you have addressed your concerns so thank you, well done, and as always, respect to you guys, the AB's and your supporters.
Great talk thanks everyone. I think Player of the year was between Eben and Ardie so I can definitely accept and respect that Ardie won it, but I really think Jacques Nienaber was done hard by not getting coach of the year. If you look at the crucial calls that he had to and wanted to make with regards to taking off Manie after 30 minutes (against England), picking only Pollard in the final, the different styles that the Springboks adapted to playing, the 7-1 split, etc. he (and Rassie) is by far the best coach of the year.
Its the pressure from the Boks rush defence that forced the errors mate!
Brilliant show guys thanks for a proper analysis of the final. Much respect for the All blacks hope to do it again with you guys. Well done to my Bokke super proud of my team. ❤
Yeah must say, overwhelmingly from SA, when all the fans from the other teams up north were counting the ABs out, we from SA were still respecting the ABs and the vast majority believed the ABs will be in the final. Great respect for the ABs from us
Agreed. No lack of respect for the French, but I preferred playing France even after the massive win against the Abs in the warm up and their loss against France in the pool. We know what you guys are capable of. My opinion felt vindicated when you beat Ireland. Massive respect to you guys for the way you played this world cup. I feel gutted for Sam Cane. Even when it happened during the game I didn't want it to be that way. We all want to see 15 against 15.
No one can doubt it the 2023 Springboks are the best rugby team ever in rugby history !!!
Erm….no….Springboks are just one of the best. Add NZL, France and Ireland to that and you would be correct
So much respect for NZ, love from South Africa
Said this before, and taking into account these guys are Kiwis and showing a wee bit frustration at the refereeing/TMO influence on the game, which is understandable but this is the best post match rugby analysis out there.
I’ve seen a lot of sentiment around NZ’ers feeling that they should have won the game. I think there’s a difference between having chances that meant you could have won looking back, and that you should have won. With the final I think it’s the former not the latter. More factors were in favour of NZ going into the game such as an extra day’s rest, SA having back to back tough games in qf and sf. The biggest one was Bongi then going down in the second minute which completely affected how SA was going to use their their second pack. I’m not sure people realise how big a speed bump that actually was and how SA had to go into game management mode basically from the start. For all that, NZ never once led in the game. Credit to them for the effort they put in the periods where it was 14 vs 15, but I think if there were no cards and Bongi didn’t go off, SA would have been able to maximise their bench and would have won more comfortably.
and, let's not forget, SA where also playing with 14 men for about 20 minutes in the second half, and specially the final 7 minutes or so when SA could have buckled under the pressure but they did not.
My thoughts exactly, bongi going down was a disaster. If kolisi had passed left to Arendse / arendse had touched down a few minutes later we would be having a different conversation. All in all a great performance by the All blacks, savea was a beast.
Bongi sucked off barnes
And the missed touchdown s of 14 and the captain 😢
The AB's are the greatest opponent's. Was a privilege to play you guys in the final. This is a great break down of the game. Thank you and see you guys soon!
I've enjoyed these videos during the RWC, nice work gents.
On the ref issue:
Rassie made a video, with evidence, about the inconsistencies and everyone laughed and called him bitter. Now it's all everyone is talking about. The Boks adapted out of necessity while most teams played the same way.
So can nobody speak about it now? And not everyone commenting or talking about it are necessarily the ones who laughed and called him bitter. Allow the conversation so that Rassies words are finally heard
@@HeeniKeke This is referring to the people that called him out for it, they have no leg to stand on.
How refreshing to see not the AB's players are respectfull and admirable but also the Kiwi pundits. Huge respect from SA.
Wayne Barnes said he did not see it as Ardie, as he did not release. What about the 56 minute with Deon Fourie and line judge changing the call to a penalty, that led to ABs try.
That try the mighty ABs "scored " was from a spilled forward ball pass. Biased ref. He had the tmo and the bunker system and he didn't use them?
@@johncraig9011 i agree, that was the second reason why not a try.
Fantastic panel discussion! From SA 👏
One just has to say this. All refs make mistakes. At this level the ref would never favour a team. The laws of the game just need to be simplified and streamlined.
Appreciate the unbiased approach of the panel
I think if anything, the ref was trying too hard to be seen as NOT biased.
Balanced, thoughtful and packed with insights.
The obvious answer to the Savea call not getting corrected falls on DeGroot. A SA prop would have laid on the ground waiting for screen time.
Proper un-biased rugby review, thank-you gentleman, cheers from a Springbok fan.
I appreciate how you started this conversation and how you're recognizing and applauding our accomplishment.
Although the Springboks performed horribly at line outs, they excelled in defense and kickoff, largely due to Handre Pollard's flawless precision.
This place loves rugby. Even in rural and agricultural areas, it is played, and surprisingly large numbers of people from all over the nation attend-some traveling long distances, others strolling, hitchhiking, and some riding bicycles, donkey carts, and horses.
Rugby competitions typically take place over the Easter break, particularly in the Eastern Cape's underdeveloped towns and rural areas. The mixed-race teams now get together there to show off who they are. This sport is part of who we are; we live it, love it, and it is part of our culture.
The reason I am a fan of the ABs is just like your show they are gracious in victory and humble in defeat from the first game I watched with Sean Fitzpatrick to Sam Cane have always been like this absolutely number one in my opinion well done Springboks on the victory
When the best of the best plays against each other you can expect a tough game. Well done to my Springboks for bringing the trophy home. I have two brothers living in New Zealand and they will always be proudly Springboks supporters. I love the All Blacks and yes i am sad for them but i know they will always fight back and win all their games. 🎉🎉🎉Well done to the two BEST world rugby players for reaching the finals.
Great show! I enjoyed the very well balanced presentation that tackled issues without being emotional about the outcome of the World cup even though this must have been really difficult.
From a Saffa. One of those games once again that could have gone anyway. The AB's were very unlucky. They missed a few opportunities that should have won the game for them. It is one of those games between the Boks and AB's that one or two big decisions can decide the game. Sometimes you are on the right side or the wrong side of a wrong ref decision. Total respect to the All Blacks. Hard luck.
Wow for the first time I get hear some real sense of what happened in the game last night... with real honesty and without bias all of you guys deserve the best.. great stuff 👏 🙌
Totally agree on TMO calls, thank you for the consistency guys. As a South African supporter i can agree, we get frustrated at some calls (we remember Rassies hour long rant…)
We need to get consistency.
But thx for the show (much better than the other kiwi one (you know the broken down one 🤭)
I enjoyed that chaps 👍 A Springboks supporter 🏉
I don't think anybody I have listened to, understood what the impact of losing Bongi to foul play had on the Springboks. It took away their scrum dominance as well as lineout attack play and a lot of our attacking prowess.
You also have to factor in the absence of Malcolm Marx, Lood de Jager, Lukhanyo Amm and Pollard (in the Ireland game)
It wasn't to foul play it was obviously an accident. Your fool coach took a stupid risk, got caught out, and the ref making ridiculous decisions saved you egg on your face
It was dirty play. But justice was served when you couldn’t make a kick to win. Don’t blame the ref you clown because you had multiple opportunities to win that game. SA only let you in the game by making a few mistakes so count yourself lucky you got that close.
So anybody who fell on another person's legs in the game is foul play right. That would be 150 yellow cards. And Ezabeths elbow to the jaw,?
The more you watch that replay the worse it gets. NZ player literally orientated himself and rolled over thr side of bongis leg
It’s was for a illegal Neck Roll. He didn’t get a red because falling on the leg as accidental
The AB had two chances to put the game to bed but missed both kicks!
They fought valiantly till the end and definately have my respect.
Bravo SA 👏. EPIC TEAM ... but agree the TMO is there to assist. He was too involved. Good point. 👍
VERY GOOD OBJECTIVE REVIEW
Best final we could have asked for the ABs were sensational with 14 men in second half, expected nothing less from them, well done to our boys, Bokke
Nienaber managed to take a team, with only 1 player in the team of the year, and win a WC back to back with the hardest route ever. Well done Andy Farrel. Got so close to a semi
Rassie. Jaques is a figurehead. That's why he's leaving. He wasn't allowed to coach.
I would just like to say after listening to this podcast this is why South Africans respect and appreciate the All Blacks. There are a lot of naysayers online at the moment and quite often they are All Black supporters dissing the match thinking they should have won but you guys have shown what the majority of supporters think and then analyse the game perfectly with an unbiased approach. And given South Africa the credit where credit is due. Thank you that means a lot to us and much appreciated We thought very hard for this and is quite upsetting when we hear people putting us down looking for excuses saying we were lucky to win three matches in a row by one point. People keep The game could have gone anyway no it couldn't We would have found a way regardless that's what makes this Springbok team so special. Oh and four missed drop goals by South Africa..
Hosting a show or being a guest on a show means an actual discussion can occur. When commenting, threads aren’t places for discussion…people really only able to post brief thoughts.
When Wayne Barnes inforned Ardie about Sam's card's upgrade, Ardie asked "to red?" . Are there any other colours🙄?
😂😂😂
Great show, well balanced and great points made. Respect!
anyone with issues from the ref hasnt watched the last few years. also head contact directly on shoulder and no bend in the knees is begging for a red card. improve technique, problem over, dont allow the ref to play. be smarter. less blame.
I appreciate the difficulty of walking the tight line between legitimate feedback, discussion about the nature of referring and not sounding like sour grapes. And I think this crew did very well in this discussion.
Honestly, it was only when I re-watched the game a second time I saw just how much the TMO was running the show. I completely did not see it when the game was live as I could not hear anything else but my racing heart. Goodness me, these last 3 games left me an emotional mess!
There are no easy solutions here but yes, something has to be done to improve the flow of the game. And its only when you rewatch the really older games (late 90's) that you see how much the game has changed. How much slower it is now. I know one of the main drivers is safety and I wont even accidentally suggest that compromises must be made on safety. But I am certain there is a way to keep or even improve safety while making the game flow more fluid ... and keeping the identity of the game. Its a fantastic game, maybe the best team game out there.
Im going to miss this tournament. We knew this would be best tournament in the history of the game but we were absolutely not ready for what we got. Gonna miss this show too. Over the past 2 months throughout the tournament, it had become a staple for what I listen to every Tuesday morning (SA Time). Well done chaps, great show.
With regards to the call against Ardie that led to the penalty , the same argument can be made for the call against Peter Steph against England that led to their first penalty. After the reply you can see that peter steph won the ball fairly but ref sticks with decision
Will have more to say about this podcast as I'm watching it on Supersport. The Breakdown cannot compare with this.
Just this scrums, rucks, mauls and solid defence is as beautiful as running rugby. Sometimes better
That Judo neck roll by Frizzell on Bongi is one of the most dangerous things in rugby, it shifts all the weight on a twisting knee.
Many players do it, and I look away everytime a player does it. This wouldn't have been as close with Bongi on the park, no scrum or Lineout for 78min
Was intentional for sure IMO.
Massive respect to you guys. Good show and very balanced views. Kiwi's are class as always!
Now you know how Sa feels when we play you. The AB gets most of the calls in their favor.
Both teams had a tough Rugby World Cup, with some really challenging moments leading up to the tournament. New Zealand faced difficulties under Fossie, resulting in a roller-coaster period. On the other hand, the Springboks had to compete against the best teams in the world to retain the cup. As a South African, I was genuinely concerned about how much the Springboks had left in the tank.
After a grueling match against a physical French team and navigating a demanding group phase, they appeared fatigued and essentially exhausted when facing England. They also just managed to scrape through that one. In the initial minutes against the All Blacks, the Springboks seemed stronger, but the question was always how long they could maintain that level of play. Without getting into the specifics of Cane's red card and the debate around it, the All Blacks being reduced to 14 players somewhat leveled the playing field. This is because they hadn't faced the same grueling path to the final as the Springboks had.
These are just my two cents, but the All Blacks definitely demonstrated their mettle. Congratulations to them as well.
The captains challenge is a good suggestion. Kolisi would have challenged the dropped ball that eneded in a try.
Thank you for a balanced show, gents.
I want to warn you that with every World Cup win, we as South Africa gather a whole new group of glory boy supporters who don't know anything about the history of the game.
Please bare with us as you hear things from these fair-weather fans like 'The Boks are the greatest team ever / no one is better cos we've won 4 World Cups' and similar.
This is as frustrating to us loyal longtime supporters as it is to you guys. If you've been watching the game for 20-30 years consistently, anyone would know that the ABs have been the most successful team of all time (in all sports), they have played the more attacking, attractive game, and that the Boks' successes are so often borne out of our Super Rugby rivalry years with NZ. Moreso, nothing has surpassed the ABs dominance and flair of 2011-2016 yet.
That said, I have no doubt that with finals rugby over now, the Boks will start exploring their attacking game more as they were doing before (Libbok, Moodie, Williams etc) - and our next game with you guys will be a lot more wild and entertaining!
Well done ABs - your guys all played like heroes on Saturday, and none of them deserved to lose.
I am also wary of gloating fair weather recent Bok fans being too boasting. It's not what we are about.
Thanks mate. I needed to hear that today. From a devastated AB’s fan. 🙏🏽😃
Man if SA start to use that backline more, i can't imagine how good you will get.
Absolute top class panel! Honest, unbiased and informative! Well done on a great show! Thank u from a saffa
Bok supporter here. Agree 100% with the Ardie penalty. As soon as I saw that I thought it was harsh. Shouldve been a pen to NZ. To counter NZ had 2 kicks to win the game the officiating didn't lose them the game they had lots of chances to win
The margins at the top are so close, any of the top 10 countries can win on a specific day. The rugby laws are sometimes too complicated & even conflicting, making referee & TMO decisions vital in outcomes. But congratulations to the Springboks, they were just that slightest of margin better & yes luckier in RWC 2023!!! It was thrilling & edge to edge nailbiting stuff and also heroic at times!!!
42 of the 55 minutes was complaining about the umpiring. No discussion on the SA defense or the AB not taking penalty points. No discussion on the actual game.
When Rassie Erasmus emphasised fairness and good officiating about Refs,Not one Nation supported him except South Africa because they felt hard down by the Ref and Tmo in the 1st leg of Brittish n Irish Lion Tour now that Rassie is adapted his players to play on how the game is being officiated and no longer critises the Refs and Tmo, Everyone is doing the same thing now that you All bashed Rassie for doing it we can all say Rassie is the Goat i cant wait to see the innovations he gonna come with next year and prepare to see 8-0 splits Newzealand should be proud they’ve players played their hearts in the final best team won end of the day
With that logic, no nations should forever speak about it and advancement stops. Because nobody stood up and supported means nobody can ever speak again. Let’s see how far that goes in a life attitude
As a South African I enjoyed your show a lot, although the English is sometimes too fast for me. Thank you for giving credit to SA and the Boks. I also think Rassie made a good job of it in spite of the quota system imposed by the ANC government on rugby but not on soccer.
Thanks to the AB's for being worthy opponents, it was a tremendous game.
I think coaching rugby teams have come a long way since 1995, they are all of a high standard.
I my add that it is a known fact in Paleo Psychology to fight harder when a mate is either killed or disabled and that is why the AB's fought so hard after the red. The scrum was just as good. Good show.
South Africa have been saying all tournament that
“defence wins matches”….and they proved it….
209+ tackles compared to 80+ from the All Blacks
in the final…Says it all….
All Blacks really stepped up to overcome a brilliant Irish side. They were unlucky in the final. Respect our rugby rivals in the land of the silver fern!
Hi guys
Just watched this episode - Excellent show.
Discovered your show about halfway through the RWC, and thoroughly enjoy the opinions and discussions. Fair, balanced, informed - just lekker to watch! As a South African I must reiterate what so many of us feel: Always love playing you guys, always feel lucky to have a win, never feel bad to lose against the great All Blacks. And most of all, the mutual respect, friendly relations and of course the banter!
Also love that you guys get what Siya and his team mean to us, for us.
Lovely show, well done.
Cheers, from a proud South African.
Nice show guys, respectful, Insightful, balanced, in the spirit of rugby.
I believe both bokke and AB fans, were not impressed with the ref situation. Personally, I was bleak when cane got red carded. It was just something I didn't want. Sadly, the reffing wasn't consistent, but the overriding theme from kiwi's I hear is, you could have won anyway. Which I think is the most important thing here. The rivalry is founded on respect. When you win or when you lose. And in SA, we have nothing but respect for the AB's.
We kiwis should be proud of how far this team actually went. We were written off by many including alot of our own and the resolve we saw from this team was amazing to see. To think we pushed the defending champions to within one point a man down for a large part of the game is something to be proud of. On the other hand we need to reflect on a couple of things and that is goal kicking and discipline. Both of these have been issues over the past several years and if we were to come up short it was always going to come down to someone being carded for a lazy technique or missed kickable goals and exactly that put us on the back foot in the biggest game of all. Im excited to turn the page on this era and see what Robertson can bring in, you can bet there will be a huge focus on discipline.
Congrats to SA, their defense was out of this world and nobody can argue they deserved to win. Truly a great team.
Like James Parsons alluded to, the interjection of the TMO is bewildering.
He also forgot the forearm fend of Eban to Cane in the first half which is also a clear yellow. If the TMO is jumping in for the Frizzel yellow, why not jump in there. It was very easy and clear to see.
I imagine that Kolisi doesn't get a card unless Ardie has the trainer come on to draw attention to the contact. If Degroot does the same its yellow. ABs game management to draw attention to the contact is too staunch and old school. You can hear Kolisi constantly talking to the ref or trying to hollywood and draw the call, all the Boks know to go down, just like Marks did in Twikkers.
It's unfortunate but players have to play for the camera, not the ball.
About five years ago a narrative was started that officials were giving the All Blacks too much favour “because they have been so successful”. McCaw was often cited as an example. You have to wonder if the discipline was actually any worse in this world cup, or whether that narrative finally bore some fruit in the last twelve months. Not the only factor, not the main factor, but a consistent pressure guiding officiating over quite a period. The TMO was very focused on them. He had to look pretty hard for that knock on and actually contradict a decision already made by the ref on the spot with a clear view. That was a constructive intervention, not a “bad call” or mistake.