I think that the detail that Will pointed out relating to GRF when developing power is key. Imo in applied context (sports), power is generated the most by putting force into the ground. Even in rotational movement (like med ball throw), you would not be able to throw the hardest by simply rotating the torso. The ground is key 🔑 and inalienable to developing power.
Sure, but the problem is that sagittal training is expressing taking energy out of the ground. As an example, a squat or a deadlift if you look at the torso. It’s lifting away from the ground. As someone who coaches high level baseball players, I see this in players that lift a lot of sagittal lifting. They pop up out of their swing, and pop up out of their delivery. You have to actually train to put energy into the ground. In baseball that means compressing into the front leg as a hitter. As a pitcher compressing down into the front hip and over, essentially screwing yourself down. Paul Skenes doesn’t really squat or deadlift. Doesn’t lift heavy. Trains a ton rotationally.
Had the channel pop in my for you page. Very interesting topics and things I never thought of. I train specifically hypertrophy only but loved the insight on these things that I know nothing about.
I think this was a far more productive conversation than the one posted on Will’s channel, I quite liked this episode and what you had to say Justin even as a fan of Will’s channel beforehand
Ive seen Will’s arguments on this before and I do think he has good points on poor justification for the use of the term rotational power. However, a colleague of mine is a PT that works with rotational athletes exclusively (mostly golfers now. Shout out to Chris Kendall you’re an awesome guy and I’m forever grateful for the time you helped me personally)- he has a few tests he runs his athletes through including a vertical jump test and a half kneeling shotput throw. He pointed out to me that those two are the best predictors for performance that’s why he monitors them so closely. Interestingly enough, he noted most people have a rather large discrepancy in output between the side they swing from and the opposite side. Furthermore, he made a point in saying if you lack that large discrepancy- you’re probably not a great golfer! Ahahah. This doesn’t detract the points Will makes on what muscles are contributing to the power output but from what I understand the shotput throw is more about hip IR than anything else. I’m not as versed in this movement or the application of it so someone can correct me if I’m wrong. But if that’s the case I can understand how there’s a link in Chris’ diagnostics (the vertical jump and shotput throw) and maybe that’s the part of the chain that needs addressing (as well as trunk stability and just general coordination)
I thought this was great. From both sides. Sifting through some of the semantics and rationales that may or may not be arbitrary or BS still provides value I think
I felt like it got a little Symantec but it was still good. I’d like to see you guys do another and talk more about training athletes. That final thread about training a baseball player was interesting
32:40 Why dumbbell snatches? I have zero clue why ppl program them with baseball players especially timed as if it has anything to do with “throwing endurance” Or anything endurance related in baseball
@ I had never golfed and could drive a ball over 300 yards. Power is power. He doesn’t not move well in the transverse plane. Likely because he never trains it.
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I think that the detail that Will pointed out relating to GRF when developing power is key. Imo in applied context (sports), power is generated the most by putting force into the ground. Even in rotational movement (like med ball throw), you would not be able to throw the hardest by simply rotating the torso. The ground is key 🔑 and inalienable to developing power.
Sure, but the problem is that sagittal training is expressing taking energy out of the ground. As an example, a squat or a deadlift if you look at the torso. It’s lifting away from the ground. As someone who coaches high level baseball players, I see this in players that lift a lot of sagittal lifting. They pop up out of their swing, and pop up out of their delivery. You have to actually train to put energy into the ground. In baseball that means compressing into the front leg as a hitter. As a pitcher compressing down into the front hip and over, essentially screwing yourself down.
Paul Skenes doesn’t really squat or deadlift. Doesn’t lift heavy. Trains a ton rotationally.
Had the channel pop in my for you page. Very interesting topics and things I never thought of. I train specifically hypertrophy only but loved the insight on these things that I know nothing about.
I enjoyed it, I thought it was two slightly different perspectives. No arguing, both sides let the other speak without necessarily agreeing
I think this was a far more productive conversation than the one posted on Will’s channel, I quite liked this episode and what you had to say Justin even as a fan of Will’s channel beforehand
30:25 but this is also true for strength in most cases. Strong isometric leg contractions are important for bench, OHP, etc.
Ive seen Will’s arguments on this before and I do think he has good points on poor justification for the use of the term rotational power. However, a colleague of mine is a PT that works with rotational athletes exclusively (mostly golfers now. Shout out to Chris Kendall you’re an awesome guy and I’m forever grateful for the time you helped me personally)- he has a few tests he runs his athletes through including a vertical jump test and a half kneeling shotput throw. He pointed out to me that those two are the best predictors for performance that’s why he monitors them so closely. Interestingly enough, he noted most people have a rather large discrepancy in output between the side they swing from and the opposite side. Furthermore, he made a point in saying if you lack that large discrepancy- you’re probably not a great golfer! Ahahah. This doesn’t detract the points Will makes on what muscles are contributing to the power output but from what I understand the shotput throw is more about hip IR than anything else. I’m not as versed in this movement or the application of it so someone can correct me if I’m wrong. But if that’s the case I can understand how there’s a link in Chris’ diagnostics (the vertical jump and shotput throw) and maybe that’s the part of the chain that needs addressing (as well as trunk stability and just general coordination)
I thought this was great. From both sides. Sifting through some of the semantics and rationales that may or may not be arbitrary or BS still provides value I think
Wonderful video, I enjoyed it.
I felt like it got a little Symantec but it was still good. I’d like to see you guys do another and talk more about training athletes. That final thread about training a baseball player was interesting
32:40 Why dumbbell snatches?
I have zero clue why ppl program them with baseball players especially timed as if it has anything to do with “throwing endurance”
Or anything endurance related in baseball
Agree
“This is going to be the last thing besides boring”
“I didn’t want to waste yalls time and release a boring pod, we just went in circles”
Interesting
You’re giving Will too much credit. He throws like the dad on that Volkswagen commercial. He couldn’t hit 14u pitching either.
It’s almost like he doesn’t play baseball ever
@ I had never golfed and could drive a ball over 300 yards. Power is power. He doesn’t not move well in the transverse plane. Likely because he never trains it.
@ cool story bro
@@ShawnLallJD a cool story about what a dipsh@t you are, yes.
Figure skating?
will, trying to cash checks he cannot honor
Disagree