🔴We made it! Leave a like for one of the best arcs in One Piece! Also, just listening back on my comparison of Ennies Lobby to Namek from DBZ: I was talking about how I don’t remember all of namek, I only remember moments, and I named a few. While I feel like the comparison as far as how we remember arcs and events to be a valid comparison, I WILL say that I downplay the moments in ennies lobby more than I meant to while was talking. While the moments are what most people remember about a given “big arc” like ennies lobby, I should have qualified that this arc is PACKED with those moments So I apologize if at any point I’m downplaying how good this saga was, I’m being very critical, but after watching it all and reflecting on it a lot, I just want to make it clear that I like it more than it sounds like I do.
Its hard to see now but looking back youll realize everything in one piece matters..i know you run into a character like wanze and yu think oh joke character dont think like that enjoy the moment to moment and if its a jokey character take him in dont get desprate for the big stuff because wanze gave us diablo jambe...remember his roller skates ?
“Which character shown briefly do you wanna see more of?” “Shanks. Shanks is just cool as shit. I wanna see more of him” That’s literally every One Piece fan ever LOL
The thing about Sunny and the klabautermann thing is that its not something that could happen again. In the actual folklore about the klabautermann, it only becomes visible to the crew if the ship itself is doomed to sink or be destroyed. Evidently this is what happened with Merry. Usopp seeing the klabautermann working on fixing Merry was an omen of Merry's eventual fate. If that is the version of the folktale Oda was invoking, then he won't ever show a klabautermann visible on the Sunny, since that is the ship that is meant to complete the journey across the Grand Line for the Strawhats
I mean there was that filler special where they recounted the story of water 7 and ennies lobby to brook And in the end you see the klabautermann hanging out in the sunny
The D discussion killed me man LMAO. This podcast was so fun. Definitely my favorite that you’ve had so far! Also we ALL want more Shanks. But Oda keeps gatekeeping him 😔 💔
I'm actually so impressed they are already talking about the possibility of Shanks being an antagonist/bad guy. I started suspecting him way later in the story and here is Carson talking about in like episode 300 something
I always assumed he'd be an antagonist, from the moment he placed the Strawhat on Luffy's head and told him to return it, I've always assumed they'd face off in battle with Shanks being one of his final obstacles. I've never suspected Shanks as a bad guy, though - for context I'm current with the manga - since I felt Shanks being anything less than an actual good person/pirate would undermine that sort of "passing of a will" moment they had.
For me, Antagonist Shanks? Yes. Bad Guy Shanks? No. Extremely Protective crew with no scruples on dealing with potential enemies to their Captain? Well we saw Ben and Lucky in chapter 1.
Hey you two, am about an hour and a half into the vid, just wanted to chime in before I forget... although I'll probably get lost in the almost 300 comments from today, wow! I enjoy your contributions in these longer arc recap sessions, for me it's fun to delve into the theming and story elements below the surface so these are a real treat. I always feel bad when you say things like, "everyone will disagree with me," or "people will get mad at me for this," I think a good amount of people are tuning in for some form of validation rather than critical thinking (of course you would know this far better than I would). You're in the awkward space of trying to continually grow an audience so you don't want to alienate viewers, but at least on my end I welcome your honest perspectives and regret that some commenters can't handle a less than glowing review. With regards to Robin and the morality question, I appreciate the framing of your thoughts between what One Piece is trying to achieve versus your experiences with media to date and how it affects your consumption of a story. Not that you should ever feel the need to explain yourselves at length, but I can empathize over trying to vocalize your thoughts and having the audience still take it poorly because they're not understanding the context, I hope your explanation helped clarify your stance to some people. When it comes to something like Kaku vs. Zoro, I get disappointed because I fully agree with you: a lot of us have nostalgia or have read/watched OP in a more favorable setting. I've been reading/watching it weekly since Enies Lobby and was just pleased to have a new chapter/episode to watch most weeks, but when I imagine trying to catch up and having episodes drag due to recaps and fights with little progress... yeah, that would suck to say the least. My disappointment is because at this point, the anime feels more like an opportunity to see cool manga scenes acted out rather than a preferred way to take in One Piece... you two are smart enough to know about adaptation issues like this but it doesn't get rid of them. Really, it's the feeling that I want this story to put the best foot forward for you, but Toei doesn't have the best selection of footwear at times. 😅
No people don’t like Crocodile because of his fight scene prowess, it’s because he was the Bond villain and because he was the big schemer that did everything right and the only reason why he lost was because a crackhead and his crew of weirdos came in and ruined everything.
About the morality dilemma, I agree that Robin's past and actions explain her current stance, yet not justify or excuse it, and she could thus be considered a villain. But I think that's the entire point. Luffy and the straw hats busting into Enies Lobby and murdering a bunch of innocent marines trying to uphold justice, destroying one of the world's safe havens and disrupting overall world peace just to save one person are all objectively selfish and terrible things to do. Every single person on the straw hats is a 'villain' despite their intentions, they all share the dichotomy of being kind-natured and yet destroying anything that stands in their way even if it isn't inherently bad. That's why Robin fits in the crew so well; she found her people, her place in the world. I think the morality to be put into question is our own, that we continue to love these characters regardless of the types of people they are. It may not be right, but it's human.
that's why i like dressrosa the most in regard morality *Spoiler* straw hat wind up to dressrosa which is peacful albeit fake. then fate them to perish and yes they help free them from doffy in the end. But the whole point of them being there is to take down smile factory which result in kaido come to destroy doflamingo amd potencially devastate everything in the first place.
I still think y'all misattribute actions to Robin that she absolutely did not take. She didn't kill anyone in Alabasta. Go back and watch the scenes you think she's responsible for. She is usually not even IN those scenes, at all. And she spared the lives of Igaram, Luffy, Vivi, AND Pell, who she could have easily killed or left for dead.
Robin was desperate for any leads on the Poneglyphs, the one in Alabasta was her last hope. She conspired with a terrorist organization to plunge an already struggling kingdom into civil war all so she could gain access to that single Poneglyph. Croc's plan would never have progressed as far as it did had Robin not joined up with him. She was the one and only key to Croc's true goal: Pluton. Therefore Robin is largely responsible for the suffering and manipulation of Vivi's people.
In regards to Blueno's powers you have to remember that Devil Fruit abilities tend to be very semantic in nature. Semantic powers are powers that are defined solely by wording, and thus capable of a great deal of stretching what it is capable of. Devil Fruits don't change or get stronger, their user simply learns how to exploit them. Blueno's Door-Door Fruit, for example, allows him to create doors (that's literally all it does) so he creatively creates doors within people's bodies to disorient them or within the air for fast travel. PS: With the next saga, say goodbye to the Status Quo.
I argue blueno's power was always meant to work the way it did, you jsut saw ONE application of its use (as he was acting as a door for ROBIN, SPECIFICALLY, IN ONE SCENE) and assumed that you saw the entirety of how it works until the train fight revealed there was more to it. But I could be wrong, i don't know how things were going through Oda's head at the time.
Tbh I think they do this a lot in regards to assuming they completely understand something, and anything new in relation to said thing is some kind of contrived plot twist.
@@godtierbp1928 its precilsly because they watch shows so lowly and comb over everything. If your bing watching the show the time between his ability first reavel and the fluffy fight was probably like 3 or 4 days for them they had been talking about it for months.
@creeperkingdom3190 You say that, but I've definitely watched people much more thorough and insightful than them, both for one piece and other anime, yet they're the only ones who do what I said before. The first to come to mind are the channels Autosave in regards to being more thorough with anime in general and if we're talking about One Piece then Into the void anime also watch at around the same pace with things taking months.
The Ussop fighting so good is not only because Ussop knew a lot about Luffy, he is smart and he had his prep time. It was also because for him it was a fight with meaning, a fight for Merry which meant a lot to him. Nami later in the ark says something about how Luffy and Zoro won't lose to CP9 now that they have a big reason to fight them. I think the same could be applied to Ussop but that is just my opinion ofc.
I feel Sanji's chivalry is a fine enough flaw as its consistent with what we;ve seen of him and its not protrayed as someothing GOOD or something the other crewmembers would agree with. It IS a flaw and seen as such in story, and its used to highlight how the strawhats will back each other up and fill in for each other's flaws.
"Evil Shanks" is like the most theorized topic in the One Piece community. This guy will never be be free of the evil mastermind allegations LOL. To be honest, I don't know whether he's a good guy or bad guy, but I 100% don't buy that him meeting Luffy was a coincidence at all. I think he planned it. He's an interesting character, really. Probably one of the smartest and most calculated characters in the story.
honeslty i doubt shanks is ever gonna be evil, especially since we alreayd have plenty of villains in the story and shanks works better as a good guy anyway. it'd jsut be a twist for the sake of a twist in my opinion.
In this context it's hard to say what really qualifies as "evil". There's plenty of people who might tell you Shanks is already evil, based on his actions so far.
He's playing pirate....I hate rich spoiled kids ...even if they have Stockholm syndrome..Buggy's the real deal Forget Shanks...he isn't who we think he is ..also he's a Playboy drinking his life away he could have found the one piece before Luffy was born but doesn't...
what if shanks and his crew was the ultimate infilttarted unit against the pirates close to find the one piece? and they are de holy knight of mariy geose.. :O
I will never understand who was the idiot at toei that was like, hmmmmm let's ignore this canon cover stories that can give us some 3-4 buffer episodes, so we don't have to come up with fillers
Luffy's moral is literally what Shanks showed him at the beginning. They don't care what bandits doing around, they don't care how many crimes and kills have their nakamas. They can brutally take revenge if someone hurts their nakamas. And they always ready to put their lives to risk. That's why he never questioned what bad things Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Robin did in past. That's why he helped Nami only when she asked, not for the sake of poor villagers. Same for Vivi's country. "People die" says Luffy. He never argues that pirates are evil. "Good pirates" or "heroes" concept aren't used in actual series, Oda left them in early oneshots, LA took it for no reason.
Agreed. And this is made more clear in the upcoming arcs so I’m curious to see how Carson feels about the subject then. Edit: LA making Luffy and the SHs morally good and taking a stand on it is a misstep imo. We shall see though.
Actually Luffy cares about the country or village or people around him. Spoiler for dressrosa: When the bird cage started Law told Luffy not to fight doffy coz their target is just to destory the smile factory but luffy said "how can I leave the country like this, look at the country's state right now, I need to fight doffy". In Nami case he knew that nami would ask him for help when she couldn't handle anymore , he patiently waited for her coz he didn't want to destroy or interrupt Nami's plan. In VIVI case too, he just knows what needs to be done first to save the country. Luffy is the type of person who would not actively look for the injustice or crimes but he would not stand the injustice that's happening in front of him. About shanks, shanks fought back when the bandits touched luffy. Luffy is the same, he doesn't care what others do to him as long as the innocent people are safe.
@@royalfun1031 That's also true but I mean if we look at his words, if he only cares about his friends, he will say " My friend will be killed, I need to fight" But he said " I can't leave the country in this state, I have to fight".
Spoiler, wano, Luffy's goal was to help defeat Kaido, not because he didn't like Kaido, but to fulfill the goal with Law, but Luffy really got very angry when he saw that the country was starving and suffering, for him to be angry, at the very least he has to care, like he cared when they burned down Cho Cho's dog shop
1:01:50 I'd say its more so about how one piece prioritizes Luffy as a character that lives in the moment and does not focus on people's past but what they are now, so the story takes the same approach Luffy does towards Robin. Thats where the morality comes from
Yea, I wanted to write the same thing. Luffy doesn't care about people's pasts, but about what kind of person they are in that very moment, and he can recognize if someone is good or not. It's shown first with Nami's bachstory, where Luffy just walked away. Didn't want to hear it.
On naming conventions: "Gol D. Roger" was misread as "Gold Roger" so I always assumed it would be written: "Roger Gol D." or "Luffy Monkey D." if westernized. Not sure if it should be counted as a hyphenated style last name, or a middle name. But definitely some sort of lineage-related name. On Ennies Lobby: So the Water 7 saga/Ennies Lobby Arc are a "level-up" moment, imo. I think your critiques of the arc as not being what it's hyped up as is fair, you're right that part of it is down to the anime adaptation vs manga. But I also think a big part of it, was that the fights aren't why I consider it a good arc? To me there are different (future) arcs that can blow you guys away in terms of battle match-ups and such. What makes Enneis Lobby great, imo, is that it does for One Piece what Arlong Park did, it shifts the tone just a bit. We learn about the Ancient Weapons briefly in Alabasta. But with Robin's flashback to Ohara, everything we learn about Tom/the blueprints, the sheer scale of effort the WG has in keeping Robin, etc. the point of the series shifts just slightly. Suddenly it's clear that for all this is a typical action-adventure shonen, One Piece is also about unraveling a mystery. This is further shown in Post-Ennies when we learn about Dragon, see Shanks interacting with Whitebeard, have Teach drop information like there being a book of fruits and him having been specifically waiting/looking for this fruit. Suddenly this show has almost political intrigue by introducing a third faction headed by Dragon and showing how closely the WG watches the movement of those with power, like Whitebeard. Essentially, it managed (imo) to expand the world, yet again.
another reason why the government may not be THAT worried about luffy: he's still JUST a random pirate to them. He, in their eyes, destoryed ennies loby, evaded the buster call, took nico robing (one of their BIG targets) and humilaited some of their top level peeps in the area, but the straw hats are still JUST pirates. THey aren't actively fighting the government like Dragon or are seen as a SERIOUS threat to the government like the Four Emperors. Capturing Luffy may be a bigger deal now, but he's still not a PRIORITY, and likely won't be until he does something to SERIOUSLY piss off the government.
Agree. It hard to visualize how huge the OP world as we are only focus on the Strawhats. But as they go along, they will understand that in OP, the whole world is alive and breathing. Many things are happening in the background even no Strawhats were involve. And the WG is facing other difficulties like you said. Especially in the New World. And they have not much interest in focusing too much resources for a small pirate group like Strawhats. One example when they have sent marine fleets to watch over Whitebeard and Shanks meet-up, but all those forces got annihilated in a moment.
That isn’t what they meant. They meant Oda actually giving Merry a character in Water 7. We knew about the spirit, but it was just a spirit. It had no personality or anything, so the viewers didn’t have an emotional connection. The emotional connection came when Oda gave her a personality or character in Water 7.
@@azazelop5223 The Going Merry always had a sense of personality, even before it was explicitly shown. We became emotionally attached to it through the way Usopp treated and cared for it. Usopp, in particular, showed a deep bond with the ship, treating it like a valued crew member. His efforts to repair and maintain the Merry gave it a life of its own in the eyes of both the crew and the audience. When the concept of the ship having a "soul" was introduced, It simply reinforced the connection we already felt. The Merry’s soul solidified that emotional bond, turning what was once a symbolic attachment into something more tangible and heartfelt.
You cant really call Usopp being impressive against Luffy convenient because its not convenient for anything, he loses anyways, so it doesnt serve any material purpose Its the story showing how great usopp can be with the right mindset or moment, something that he doesnt see at that point
Love the discussion❤ I didnt't comment because I might lead in to "Spoiling" you so yeah really really great, awesome review and I can't wait to see more in the future 🥰💖
One way to look at the whole “why does Luffy not look like Dragon but looks like Garp?” thing is to think that maybe Dragon looks more like his mom than his dad. And there is a such thing as people looking more like they’re grandparents than their parents so that could explain it too. We just don’t have enough information yet
Enis Lobby wasn't really a wholehearted "victory" in my mind. A victory would be repelling the Buster Call. They fulfilled the objective, but only by running away, not by actually defeating the foe like they did with Crocodile and Enel. And of course we all know Garp and Aokiji could have demolished them if they really wanted to, so they also only "won" because their nominal enemy let them go.
I mean, they had only *one* objective in Enies Lobby - saving Robin and they did just that, so it's a happy end all around. Why would they care about repelling Buster Call marines used against themselves? Defeating every marine soldier coming their way was never their goal.
@@NoZet100 Well they didn't, but it did mean that it didn't 'feel' like a resounding victory. It felt like they had some way to go and they were lucky to get away.
On the Robin stuff, I don't remember if it's implied or directly said, but I always thought the reason why she ultimately ended up joining criminal organizations is because those were the people least likely to immediately just turn her over to the marines. She was basically betrayed by every regular civilian that she tried to stay with while she was on the run. So she ultimately turned to criminals/pirates. She never actively wanted to be one. Her circumstances led her to ultimately working under Crocodile, perhaps under the belief that if Crocodile needed her for her ability to read the poneglyphs, she could at least guarantee her safety until then. All while actively pursuing her dream of learning about the void century. As for her views on people hurt by the criminal organizations that she was a part of, while she never seemed to enjoy the pain caused and killing, she had grown cold to the rest of the world. As said during this saga, the world, or at least the overarching societal structure of the world(the world government) is her enemy. If the pursuit of her dream ultimately meant that she would have to turn a blind eye to the unjust violence of the people she had to align herself with, so be it. It's not her job to care for the people that would brand her and everyone she cared for on Ohara as devils and happily see her killed just like the rest of the scholars were. The world turned it's back on her, so she turned her back on the world. Basically, the world had turned her cold, and the straw hats are the first people she has met since Ohara that have actually accepted her and are willing to protect her from the world. As for the Rob Lucci stuff, while Lucci has a cool design, and his fight with Luffy has great moments, I really don't understand why people like him so much. He's just an edgy bloodthirsty killer with a twisted sense of justice. I don't even consider Lucci to be the main villain of the saga, that title belongs to Spandam. Lucci is just the strongest antagonist of the saga, so Luffy has to fight him because nobody else in the crew can. I still think he's a serviceable antagonist for his role in the story, but I think there are much better villains/antagonists in One Piece than Lucci.
Great discussion. To add to your statements. Honestly, I think Skypiea is the arc that gets elevated the most in retrospect. I wasn't a huge fan watching it first either. What I liked was only Noland's flashback, dance around the fire with wolves, Sun God, Earth God, Forest & Rain God interesting lore tidbits & Luffy ringing the bell for Montblanc. Alongside some funny stuff like Luffy singing and the south bird & Zoro. But my god, does Skypiea get incredible in retrospect. That said, I see W7/EL/PEL as one arc and I adore it to pieces. One of my favorite in OP and all of anime/manga. And I'm glad you liked it despite anime's flaws in how it adapts the material. (This is the best it'll be when it comes to anime pacing lol) Also yeah, your problems with Nami's fight and any other fight is purely anime. In manga everything makes perfect sense. Anime drags it all to hell. Same with random non-sense Lucci monologue during the fight. He doesn't do that in the manga.
There are many parts of storytelling that Oda is soo good at but my personal favourite aspect of his storytelling is his payoffs, it can be either at the end of an arc or a saga or even a payoff of a certain character. He takes his sweet time to setup the stuff, small titbits here and there and it all culminates in the most beautiful way I've ever seen, especially comparing to other stories One Piece for me does it the best!!
1:40:16 Yes, you are correct. It is only a live action thing, there is no official 1st mate. In the crew, a few of the crew mates take that role from time to time, and you’d be surprised, but Zoro is the one who does it the least.
Great podcast! I listened to the entire thing, which I don't normally do with long podcasts. Looking forward to the next arc! It's far from a fan favourite but I think you will probably enjoy it more than most are expecting.
It's so wild to be hearing this podcast almost a year after you guys did your One Piece LA discussion. I remember listening to it because I was in Japan at the time. Great conversation!
Shanks being a villain is like Gojo being one... I just can't see it. I know it's a popular theory and the fandom is 50/50 on it, some want him to be bad and some don't. But personally, I think he'll be a a grey character. Also fans love Shanks too much, he's a fan-favorite in the fandom despite not being a strawhat, I don't think Oda will do it.
I also don’t think Shanks sacrificed his arm to “inspire” Luffy. I think he did lose his arm trying to save Luffy. That’s what he meant by “bet it on a new era”. He could have saved Luffy at the cost of his arm, or let Luffy die. And he chose to save Luffy, because he knew that Luffy would become something great one day. That’s why he says “It’s just an arm”. Because Luffy mattered more to him than an arm.
@@royalfun1031 Yeah but I think it’s just a better choice for his character AND for Luffy’s character. Shanks genuinely sacrificing his arm to save Luffy explains why Luffy is willing to risk ANYTHING to save his friends. He is following in Shanks’ example. And yes, it’s a power scaling inconsistency but hey, One Piece has a ton of inconsistencies. I am willing to look past some inconsistencies for character consistency and emotional effect, but I’m not willing to sacrifice one of the most iconic moments in One Piece and what it represents for the sake of “power scaling”.
I don't think Oda has every arc meticulously planned, however I do believe he has had every big moment like robin, merry, and important details and milestones like poneglyphs and Raftel figured out since the start. I can look back to chapter one and onwards and see how he teased or foreshadowed something 100 chapters, 1000 chapters later. (We actually know that he's had to cut and condense the last couple sagas because he wants to end the series). You can make an argument that he's just good at taking old things and adding context he didn't plan, but I think there are far too many for that to be a strong argument. I think its much easier to overlook those details in the anime because your getting everything in-between the panels of the manga, I've noticed how Oda draws and frames panels as I've been going through the manga after being anime only. And it's becoming more apparent as we get closer to the end and get those big reveals. Not a rant, or anything negative, just something a lot of One Piece fans have a dispute on.
Lucci killed those soldiers because of being weak. Weak soldiers are just as guilty as criminals. Also, he's a psychopath who just loves to kill. He's using spandam's authority to justify this bloodlust. If they mentioned these 2 things about Lucci, we wouldn't be mad.
@@sheepboy2560I'm pretty sure both those things were mentioned by Lucci in the show. He said he's in C9 so he can kill people and he justified killing the hostage soldiers by saying they were weak
Just to clarify why people were up in arms about Lucci, it's not that he 'comes back later'. It's because the show clearly explained it. It's not about being cool or badass, he's a savage and uses 'Dark Justice' as a label for his killing of those beneath him. He even said in the arc that he joined CP9 as it gave him a licence to kill. He killed those people over purely being weak, it shows his ruthlessness and that killing a person means nothing to him. It makes him dangerous.
And we discussed all of those things in the discussion portion of that reaction. People weren’t mad about what we thought, they were mad that we didn’t react the way they wanted us to, and dressed it up with a flawed justification.
Interesting discussion as always. Your perspective is so different and that is why it's fun to listen to for me. I can't wait to see your reactions when you get to this arc or that other arc.
I get the while thing about Lucci being so edgy just catching them off guard. Edge is something that is rampant with like half the characters in other series (looking at you Natuto), but in One Piece it's pretty rare to get a full on edgelord character/backstory. Even Blackbeard, a guy with a literal darkness fruit, is farrrr less edgy than Rob Lucci.
Lucci was the first villain to almost kill Luffy. Drove him to the extreme. I would say that CP9 lived up to the expectation. They weren't nerfed, but the Strawhats were since they were conflicted about Robin's situation. In Water 7, they mostly travel as a group and Lucci is with them, who is stronger than anyone but LUffy. But yes, the beginning of Enies Lobby is weak. From Luffy and gang traveling on the train up to Blueno VS Luffy, it's all a glaze. Sanji, Robin, and Usopp on the train is great, and from Blueno on is great.
In regards to morality it's important to remember that the strawhat pirates are NOT heroes. They don't fight for justice or care about the greater good or anything like that. You're gonna see Luffy do some questionable things later but not only does the story not care it's very important to remember that Luffy himself doesn't care. And he never will. The strawhats DO NOT give a damn about anything that doesn't affect their immediate crew and the people they're concerned with. Thats it.
When people ask for Ranking, it's really ranking feats during an arc (Sagas became a thing when the series got longer) For example, sanji helped usopp realise his worth and what his position in the crew is during enies lobby and closed the giant doors. Chimney and gombe helped out the entire time by finding passages, kokoro saving them a bunch of times, Usopp getting luffy to stand up, etc. Could be just finding the Arc mvp. (Most times Luffy is left out of rankings cause he's a force of nature)
Really agree with the hindsight point you guys make. Also, One Piece is famously great to rewatch/reread. I actually think the 2nd watch is more enjoyable. That's probably why the fandom enjoys following peoples journey through it so much.
52:35 Interesting suggestions about the Klabautermann Just a reminder that Franky mentionned it's a spirit that appears to warn the crew of a great danger for the ship.
my favorite anime podcast hosts are here yay; Carson, Lindsay and the voices of the damned that keeps on repeating what Lindsay’ is saying. the crews all here☺️
As a long time One Piece fan and as a sometimes writer I agree with all of your thoughts in the improvisation section. And to use Carson's term I also agree that Luffy is mostly an "expansion" type of character. You guys are going to have a blast with the upcoming saga.
If you're interested in directing and writing, for Luffy you need to read as much as you can about the literary concept of the "flat character arc". It's a concept that includes James Bond, Indiana Jones, Jim Hawkins ("Treasure Island" book), Tom Sawyer, and many others. It also includes Goku, and it does NOT include Gon. It doesn't explain Luffy as a character, but it does get you closer to understanding ways of solving him. Luffy is a lens, a concept in itself, a living idea, a complex ideology - his perception of the world is one of the main points of view on the world around him, one might even say the center one. And his life - his reactions, his decisions, his thoughts, his dreams, his priorities and the consequences of all of this, is what builds the story around him. He is the catalyst for many changes, not all of them. And unlike many other Protoganists, he does not explore the world around him while the world tests him for strength, which brings changes to him, no - he interacts with the world constantly, while being a part of it so fully that his actions already affect the world and those who inhabit it. As happened with his crew and many enemies and allies that he has acquired. The other characters react to Luffy and his actions, more like an "event" than a "behavior". He will not change, but he can expand and deepen, through new experiences or trauma, because he is still human on top of everything.
Everything is always contextual. Especially morality. Morality is not just now and a hundred years ago, morality now and twenty years ago are different things. And as for morality in One Piece - it is built completely differently, because it is a different world. Different rules, a different economic situation, the stratification of society is much stronger, there is no stability of public safety, neither the animal nor the natural world is tamed, there are superhumans and almost demigods, there is a military tyranny of the largest police organization. And One Piece interprets our, modern morality, only as a show - when the author begins to create points of interpretation for what is happening. The morality itself in the world of One Piece does not rely on our real one at all, it is built in another world, and is unspoken, it flows somewhere in the background and can be partially understood only by setting a goal to discover it. None of our crew, including Chopper and Usopp, are good people. Parts of our morality awaken in them, but in completely different ways that we would consider insincere. For example, Chopper can indeed stop and start treating a suffering wounded person, but only because he is a doctor. It is his duty, it is in his rules, which he himself accepted and which his adoptive father gave him to choose from - it is not because it is the right thing to do and not because Chopper feels sorry for someone he does not know. If anything, whether Chopper feels empathy for people as a different species is already questionable. But this is not in any case a moral issue, because Chopper hardly takes morality into account even for a second during his medical activities - it does not determine anything for him. Luffy, by our modern standards, is a psychopath. A sociopath. He lacks empathy as a personality structure. Morality is a meaningless word to him - knowing Luffy, he wouldn't even recognize the word if he heard it, it's literally white noise to him. Luffy didn't care if Koby died from Alvida's blow or not, Luffy didn't care if Zoro died from exhaustion at the base or not, Luffy didn't care if Kuro killed the villagers or not, Luffy didn't care if Alabasta was destroyed, Luffy didn't care about all the Shandians and Skypieans combined. Luffy helped Koby because Koby stood up to Alvida and Luffy likes brave people with dreams. Luffy helped Zoro because he wanted him on the crew and until he gave up on inviting him, he wasn't going to let him die. Luffy wanted to help Usopp because Usopp is a funny nice goofy guy and Luffy liked him, and he is also Yasopp's son and seems be able to fight, so it would be good for him to be their sniper: so he went to punch Kuro in the face, and who Kuro was and whether he was right or not didn't matter at all - Kuro was a pirate too, and what he was doing didn't bother Luffy at all in the first place. Luffy helped Vivi because they just happened to be in a situation where they heard Crocodile's name, and then Igaram earned his respect by sacrificing himself, and then Vivi helped them cure Nami - he had no personal motivation, only the one to help Vivi, without Vivi he wouldn't have thought for a second about just helping some desert country. Luffy helped defeat Enel because Enel touched his friends first and because he wanted the gold, including the bell - and Luffy had already decided that this gold was important to him to prove the existence of Skypiea to the guy with the funny head who helped them, and well, no one dares touch his friends and not get paid for it. Plus Conis, who fed him and let him ride Waver, and Enel scared her. And if it weren't for all of those things, if it weren't for his personal involvement, I highly doubt he would even care about the destruction of some island. The best they could hope for was that Luffy wouldn't want their island destroyed because he hadn't had a chance to see it all yet, and so Enel would ruin his adventure. That's the point. Luffy has his own point of view, and it's different from Nami's, for example, and Luffy will only follow Nami's decision if he wants to or finds his own reason, but not because Nami wants it that way or because it's the right thing to do. Luffy, Nami, Chopper, Zoro, they define for themselves what is important to them, and if it so happens that it is right, then so be it, and if not, we will kill Marines in droves, not worrying about the fact that they have families waiting for them at home. Because there is no morality that would dictate to them what is "right". For Chopper, there is his "right" and it is important and works in his head because most of this "right" was left to him by his past, as well as his father - who was also not a "good person", he was simply a person from whom Chopper himself wanted to accept his "right". The same with Nami and her mother and her talent. With Robin and her dream, her mother, fellow historians and the burden of the Ohara tragedy. With Sanji and his dream, his father. And on and on. With your description of a villain and a hero, Luffy seems like a villain - because he won't sacrifice or compromise for anything or anyone when it comes to his dream. Literally. Including his own crew. And the point is that heroes who look like this description of a hero are almost non-existent in One Piece. Even the Marines, who seem to be subordinated to a strict concept of justice, often have their own idea of it, like Smoker, Morgan, Koby, Garp, Aokiji, or the Five Elders. And they also don't give up on it and don't bend to people and circumstances for the common good - the best we see is Garp compromising by not accepting a promotion, but it still looks like a decision for himself and his own justice, rather than for the good and other people. So I don't think this distinction between the two concepts works here at all. Honestly, I don't find a single "hero" in One Piece over all these years, but I also don't find a "villain". There are none - everything is too real and too explained to perceive it so flatly. In the end - "villains" exist only in books, in reality there are only people, personalities. And those who are defined as criminals, villains, tyrants, are just another one of this diversity of personalities, nothing more.
I’m Japanese university student and I study English . This Chanel helps me to learn native English pronunciation and listening. Also I love one piece so very good for me. I don’t know this sentence is correct 😂 And I want to know their country.
Ppl who shit on Sanji's principles don't understand the story And his character He's flawed but in a great way Will talk abt it in detail in the future but he's the goat Sticking to his principles over his own life🚬
Was rlly nice to hear both of ur thoughts outside of a reaction! Plz ignore anyone getting upset at u taking the piss out of something, op is goofy at its core (with serious moments) and that’s okay
1:40:51 Zoro is not officially first mate and I doubt Luffy will ever call someone his first mate. But I agree with you guys that for all intents and purposes Zoro is the first mate.
First off, something. Second, your Luffy's family discussion is great, I choked on my tea when you expanded on your "cuck theory". It's defininetly your best One Piece podcast yet, which is fitting, since Water 7/Enies Lobby is the best OP arc imo.
51:18 A One Piece TV Special Called "Episode of Merry: The Tale of One More Friend" which tells the whole story of Water 7 Enies Lobby in a summarized way, at the end we see Klabbauterman, now in the Thousand Sunny, watching the Straw Hats, but without being seen.
It wasn't CP9 that was nerfed but the strawhats during water 7, the confusion of Robin's situation had them second guessing themselves. Nami even says to iceberg "now that we know we can save her, we won't get beaten" or something along those lines. Which is why as soon as Nami tells Luffy that Robin's sacrificing herself, he gets the strength/drive to break the buildings he's stuck inbetween 🎉
Obbs it can be argued, but cp9 also underestimated them because of that. Specially Kalifa after taking down Sanji she probably thought she would just play around with Nami
When it comes to lore, I think Shanks and Blackbeard are on top. So if I were to give my take on who I’m most looking forward to seeing more of, it’s those two. they’re kinda like the Gojo and Sukuna of this verse.
You also gotta give it to Oda that the more they advance into the Grand Line the tougher the enemies become, we know that after water 7 they get closer to marine headquarters and that the second half of the grand line is dominated by the strongest pirates. Real good for story telling 😂
3:11:36 I really dont care about the "amen ah" on what you talk about here. Im here for real reaction and discussions about the anime that I love either you don't like the story or not, I genuinely love your reaction content because its real and I appreciate the authenticity you guys put out. Keep up the good work Carson and Lindsay 💖 much love and support from me. Looking forward to review podcasts like this in your one piece chanel 💖
Loved the pod! Quality and discussion were great! When you guys get caught up and get to some openings and endings that you didnt react to before, will you post your reaction to them in the channel? I would love to see you guys new reaction to the current openings now with a new perspective, but i understand that you already saw them and etc. Peace!
Shanks is not close to Ace's age. Luffy is 17, Ace is 20, Shanks is 37 here (27 in the flashback with Luffy). So Shanks is close to Blackbeard's age (38).
The shanks and D’s discussion was so much fun!! I love the fact that you both thingking of Garp as a girldad cause I understand this so much. And the way lindsay said “they must’ve look alot their mother” is so sweet 😭🫶🏻 I never giving it a thought of how this D or last name passed over generation! That was sharp of you both!
The New World is part of the Grand Line. It's just the second half of the Grand Line as explained by Koby after the crew got back to Water 7 from Enies Lobby.
@@darksteel78 yes but boldcast was trying to differentiate the new world from the grandline as lindsay stated later on that they are in the new world and carson replied with "thats what I was asking", because before lindsay said they were in the grandline and carson was confused since he remembered them mentioning they were nearby but he was mistaken
Water 7 Saga still is one of my favourite parts! So much happened and it's all just to set a new stage for a new part of One Piece :D Can't wait for your reactions on the next couple of Arcs :D
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
🔴We made it! Leave a like for one of the best arcs in One Piece!
Also, just listening back on my comparison of Ennies Lobby to Namek from DBZ: I was talking about how I don’t remember all of namek, I only remember moments, and I named a few.
While I feel like the comparison as far as how we remember arcs and events to be a valid comparison, I WILL say that I downplay the moments in ennies lobby more than I meant to while was talking.
While the moments are what most people remember about a given “big arc” like ennies lobby, I should have qualified that this arc is PACKED with those moments
So I apologize if at any point I’m downplaying how good this saga was, I’m being very critical, but after watching it all and reflecting on it a lot, I just want to make it clear that I like it more than it sounds like I do.
🗿
Not the arc to be comparing to Namek
Dragonball and one piece both have bad pacing for today standard
It wouldn't hold up for first watcher today i said
@@piput8533 both are victims of Toei.
Its hard to see now but looking back youll realize everything in one piece matters..i know you run into a character like wanze and yu think oh joke character dont think like that enjoy the moment to moment and if its a jokey character take him in dont get desprate for the big stuff because wanze gave us diablo jambe...remember his roller skates ?
“Which character shown briefly do you wanna see more of?”
“Shanks. Shanks is just cool as shit. I wanna see more of him”
That’s literally every One Piece fan ever LOL
Shanks discussion in this podcast is longer than his screentime in the anime so far 💀
😂😂😂 Oda needs to stop gatekeeping Shanks for real! it’s so disrespectful that even tenten has more screentime
@@CrayonSteel how tf is this disrespectful? Do you even know shanks popularity despite least screentime?
It's the most respected aspect of shanks.
@@307nishchay8 its a JOKE my guy
i mean it's jsut tradition at this point
@@CrayonSteelQuality>
The thing about Sunny and the klabautermann thing is that its not something that could happen again. In the actual folklore about the klabautermann, it only becomes visible to the crew if the ship itself is doomed to sink or be destroyed. Evidently this is what happened with Merry. Usopp seeing the klabautermann working on fixing Merry was an omen of Merry's eventual fate.
If that is the version of the folktale Oda was invoking, then he won't ever show a klabautermann visible on the Sunny, since that is the ship that is meant to complete the journey across the Grand Line for the Strawhats
I mean there was that filler special where they recounted the story of water 7 and ennies lobby to brook
And in the end you see the klabautermann hanging out in the sunny
@@mynamedontmatter4796 the thing about that being a filler special is that it's not written by Oda
The D discussion killed me man LMAO. This podcast was so fun. Definitely my favorite that you’ve had so far! Also we ALL want more Shanks. But Oda keeps gatekeeping him 😔 💔
I was dying the entire time lmaooo
I'm actually so impressed they are already talking about the possibility of Shanks being an antagonist/bad guy. I started suspecting him way later in the story and here is Carson talking about in like episode 300 something
I always assumed he'd be an antagonist, from the moment he placed the Strawhat on Luffy's head and told him to return it, I've always assumed they'd face off in battle with Shanks being one of his final obstacles.
I've never suspected Shanks as a bad guy, though - for context I'm current with the manga - since I felt Shanks being anything less than an actual good person/pirate would undermine that sort of "passing of a will" moment they had.
@@yuukinoyuki9064yea
For me, Antagonist Shanks? Yes. Bad Guy Shanks? No. Extremely Protective crew with no scruples on dealing with potential enemies to their Captain? Well we saw Ben and Lucky in chapter 1.
Hey you two, am about an hour and a half into the vid, just wanted to chime in before I forget... although I'll probably get lost in the almost 300 comments from today, wow!
I enjoy your contributions in these longer arc recap sessions, for me it's fun to delve into the theming and story elements below the surface so these are a real treat. I always feel bad when you say things like, "everyone will disagree with me," or "people will get mad at me for this," I think a good amount of people are tuning in for some form of validation rather than critical thinking (of course you would know this far better than I would). You're in the awkward space of trying to continually grow an audience so you don't want to alienate viewers, but at least on my end I welcome your honest perspectives and regret that some commenters can't handle a less than glowing review.
With regards to Robin and the morality question, I appreciate the framing of your thoughts between what One Piece is trying to achieve versus your experiences with media to date and how it affects your consumption of a story. Not that you should ever feel the need to explain yourselves at length, but I can empathize over trying to vocalize your thoughts and having the audience still take it poorly because they're not understanding the context, I hope your explanation helped clarify your stance to some people.
When it comes to something like Kaku vs. Zoro, I get disappointed because I fully agree with you: a lot of us have nostalgia or have read/watched OP in a more favorable setting. I've been reading/watching it weekly since Enies Lobby and was just pleased to have a new chapter/episode to watch most weeks, but when I imagine trying to catch up and having episodes drag due to recaps and fights with little progress... yeah, that would suck to say the least. My disappointment is because at this point, the anime feels more like an opportunity to see cool manga scenes acted out rather than a preferred way to take in One Piece... you two are smart enough to know about adaptation issues like this but it doesn't get rid of them. Really, it's the feeling that I want this story to put the best foot forward for you, but Toei doesn't have the best selection of footwear at times. 😅
No people don’t like Crocodile because of his fight scene prowess, it’s because he was the Bond villain and because he was the big schemer that did everything right and the only reason why he lost was because a crackhead and his crew of weirdos came in and ruined everything.
Ye
About the morality dilemma,
I agree that Robin's past and actions explain her current stance, yet not justify or excuse it, and she could thus be considered a villain. But I think that's the entire point. Luffy and the straw hats busting into Enies Lobby and murdering a bunch of innocent marines trying to uphold justice, destroying one of the world's safe havens and disrupting overall world peace just to save one person are all objectively selfish and terrible things to do. Every single person on the straw hats is a 'villain' despite their intentions, they all share the dichotomy of being kind-natured and yet destroying anything that stands in their way even if it isn't inherently bad. That's why Robin fits in the crew so well; she found her people, her place in the world.
I think the morality to be put into question is our own, that we continue to love these characters regardless of the types of people they are. It may not be right, but it's human.
Yea
And we admit it
Perfectly said
that's why i like dressrosa the most in regard morality *Spoiler*
straw hat wind up to dressrosa which is peacful albeit fake. then fate them to perish and yes they help free them from doffy in the end. But the whole point of them being there is to take down smile factory which result in kaido come to destroy doflamingo amd potencially devastate everything in the first place.
I still think y'all misattribute actions to Robin that she absolutely did not take. She didn't kill anyone in Alabasta. Go back and watch the scenes you think she's responsible for. She is usually not even IN those scenes, at all. And she spared the lives of Igaram, Luffy, Vivi, AND Pell, who she could have easily killed or left for dead.
This. I can't remember the scene they keep talking about where Robin killed thousands of people.
Robin was desperate for any leads on the Poneglyphs, the one in Alabasta was her last hope. She conspired with a terrorist organization to plunge an already struggling kingdom into civil war all so she could gain access to that single Poneglyph. Croc's plan would never have progressed as far as it did had Robin not joined up with him. She was the one and only key to Croc's true goal: Pluton. Therefore Robin is largely responsible for the suffering and manipulation of Vivi's people.
I think what they mean is that just by being in cocodrile's organization she had a part in people's deaths
ennies lobby having robin's backstory, lucci vs luffy, marry rescuing the crew and marry's funeral 100% deserves the hype
In regards to Blueno's powers you have to remember that Devil Fruit abilities tend to be very semantic in nature. Semantic powers are powers that are defined solely by wording, and thus capable of a great deal of stretching what it is capable of. Devil Fruits don't change or get stronger, their user simply learns how to exploit them. Blueno's Door-Door Fruit, for example, allows him to create doors (that's literally all it does) so he creatively creates doors within people's bodies to disorient them or within the air for fast travel.
PS: With the next saga, say goodbye to the Status Quo.
I argue blueno's power was always meant to work the way it did, you jsut saw ONE application of its use (as he was acting as a door for ROBIN, SPECIFICALLY, IN ONE SCENE) and assumed that you saw the entirety of how it works until the train fight revealed there was more to it. But I could be wrong, i don't know how things were going through Oda's head at the time.
Ye
Indeed, this happens often in their reactions, I don't fault them in a tiny way
Tbh I think they do this a lot in regards to assuming they completely understand something, and anything new in relation to said thing is some kind of contrived plot twist.
@@godtierbp1928 its precilsly because they watch shows so lowly and comb over everything.
If your bing watching the show the time between his ability first reavel and the fluffy fight was probably like 3 or 4 days for them they had been talking about it for months.
@creeperkingdom3190 You say that, but I've definitely watched people much more thorough and insightful than them, both for one piece and other anime, yet they're the only ones who do what I said before. The first to come to mind are the channels Autosave in regards to being more thorough with anime in general and if we're talking about One Piece then Into the void anime also watch at around the same pace with things taking months.
From what I remember Oda was actually opposed to having garp in the live action so early but he had to be convinced from the live action team
Yea
The Ussop fighting so good is not only because Ussop knew a lot about Luffy, he is smart and he had his prep time. It was also because for him it was a fight with meaning, a fight for Merry which meant a lot to him. Nami later in the ark says something about how Luffy and Zoro won't lose to CP9 now that they have a big reason to fight them. I think the same could be applied to Ussop but that is just my opinion ofc.
Yea
I feel Sanji's chivalry is a fine enough flaw as its consistent with what we;ve seen of him and its not protrayed as someothing GOOD or something the other crewmembers would agree with. It IS a flaw and seen as such in story, and its used to highlight how the strawhats will back each other up and fill in for each other's flaws.
Still respectable
"Evil Shanks" is like the most theorized topic in the One Piece community. This guy will never be be free of the evil mastermind allegations LOL. To be honest, I don't know whether he's a good guy or bad guy, but I 100% don't buy that him meeting Luffy was a coincidence at all. I think he planned it. He's an interesting character, really. Probably one of the smartest and most calculated characters in the story.
honeslty i doubt shanks is ever gonna be evil, especially since we alreayd have plenty of villains in the story and shanks works better as a good guy anyway. it'd jsut be a twist for the sake of a twist in my opinion.
In this context it's hard to say what really qualifies as "evil".
There's plenty of people who might tell you Shanks is already evil, based on his actions so far.
He's playing pirate....I hate rich spoiled kids ...even if they have Stockholm syndrome..Buggy's the real deal Forget Shanks...he isn't who we think he is ..also he's a Playboy drinking his life away he could have found the one piece before Luffy was born but doesn't...
what if shanks and his crew was the ultimate infilttarted unit against the pirates close to find the one piece? and they are de holy knight of mariy geose.. :O
@@sarafontanini7051yea
I will never understand who was the idiot at toei that was like, hmmmmm let's ignore this canon cover stories that can give us some 3-4 buffer episodes, so we don't have to come up with fillers
Maybe he got transferred to Boruto department
2:21:00 garp stated he left luffy and ace to a friend when they were younger which was the only time he mentioned him
Are you a channel member?
@@ashaygomashe4253 patreon member
Luffy's moral is literally what Shanks showed him at the beginning. They don't care what bandits doing around, they don't care how many crimes and kills have their nakamas. They can brutally take revenge if someone hurts their nakamas. And they always ready to put their lives to risk. That's why he never questioned what bad things Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Robin did in past. That's why he helped Nami only when she asked, not for the sake of poor villagers. Same for Vivi's country. "People die" says Luffy. He never argues that pirates are evil. "Good pirates" or "heroes" concept aren't used in actual series, Oda left them in early oneshots, LA took it for no reason.
Agreed. And this is made more clear in the upcoming arcs so I’m curious to see how Carson feels about the subject then.
Edit: LA making Luffy and the SHs morally good and taking a stand on it is a misstep imo. We shall see though.
Actually Luffy cares about the country or village or people around him. Spoiler for dressrosa: When the bird cage started Law told Luffy not to fight doffy coz their target is just to destory the smile factory but luffy said "how can I leave the country like this, look at the country's state right now, I need to fight doffy".
In Nami case he knew that nami would ask him for help when she couldn't handle anymore , he patiently waited for her coz he didn't want to destroy or interrupt Nami's plan. In VIVI case too, he just knows what needs to be done first to save the country. Luffy is the type of person who would not actively look for the injustice or crimes but he would not stand the injustice that's happening in front of him. About shanks, shanks fought back when the bandits touched luffy. Luffy is the same, he doesn't care what others do to him as long as the innocent people are safe.
@@htetnay7480Yeah but also it affects his friends
@@royalfun1031 That's also true but I mean if we look at his words, if he only cares about his friends, he will say " My friend will be killed, I need to fight" But he said " I can't leave the country in this state, I have to fight".
Spoiler, wano, Luffy's goal was to help defeat Kaido, not because he didn't like Kaido, but to fulfill the goal with Law, but Luffy really got very angry when he saw that the country was starving and suffering, for him to be angry, at the very least he has to care, like he cared when they burned down Cho Cho's dog shop
*Akainu was mentioned at the end of G8 not aokiji. not that you'll meet him for a while...
The goat
1:01:50 I'd say its more so about how one piece prioritizes Luffy as a character that lives in the moment and does not focus on people's past but what they are now, so the story takes the same approach Luffy does towards Robin.
Thats where the morality comes from
Yea, I wanted to write the same thing. Luffy doesn't care about people's pasts, but about what kind of person they are in that very moment, and he can recognize if someone is good or not. It's shown first with Nami's bachstory, where Luffy just walked away. Didn't want to hear it.
Yea
I was thinking that
On naming conventions:
"Gol D. Roger" was misread as "Gold Roger" so I always assumed it would be written: "Roger Gol D." or "Luffy Monkey D." if westernized. Not sure if it should be counted as a hyphenated style last name, or a middle name. But definitely some sort of lineage-related name.
On Ennies Lobby:
So the Water 7 saga/Ennies Lobby Arc are a "level-up" moment, imo. I think your critiques of the arc as not being what it's hyped up as is fair, you're right that part of it is down to the anime adaptation vs manga.
But I also think a big part of it, was that the fights aren't why I consider it a good arc? To me there are different (future) arcs that can blow you guys away in terms of battle match-ups and such.
What makes Enneis Lobby great, imo, is that it does for One Piece what Arlong Park did, it shifts the tone just a bit.
We learn about the Ancient Weapons briefly in Alabasta. But with Robin's flashback to Ohara, everything we learn about Tom/the blueprints, the sheer scale of effort the WG has in keeping Robin, etc. the point of the series shifts just slightly.
Suddenly it's clear that for all this is a typical action-adventure shonen, One Piece is also about unraveling a mystery.
This is further shown in Post-Ennies when we learn about Dragon, see Shanks interacting with Whitebeard, have Teach drop information like there being a book of fruits and him having been specifically waiting/looking for this fruit.
Suddenly this show has almost political intrigue by introducing a third faction headed by Dragon and showing how closely the WG watches the movement of those with power, like Whitebeard.
Essentially, it managed (imo) to expand the world, yet again.
Hm
another reason why the government may not be THAT worried about luffy: he's still JUST a random pirate to them. He, in their eyes, destoryed ennies loby, evaded the buster call, took nico robing (one of their BIG targets) and humilaited some of their top level peeps in the area, but the straw hats are still JUST pirates. THey aren't actively fighting the government like Dragon or are seen as a SERIOUS threat to the government like the Four Emperors. Capturing Luffy may be a bigger deal now, but he's still not a PRIORITY, and likely won't be until he does something to SERIOUSLY piss off the government.
Yea
Agree. It hard to visualize how huge the OP world as we are only focus on the Strawhats. But as they go along, they will understand that in OP, the whole world is alive and breathing. Many things are happening in the background even no Strawhats were involve.
And the WG is facing other difficulties like you said. Especially in the New World. And they have not much interest in focusing too much resources for a small pirate group like Strawhats.
One example when they have sent marine fleets to watch over Whitebeard and Shanks meet-up, but all those forces got annihilated in a moment.
We did see Merry's spirit in Skypia though; it wasn't just a last-minute thing before he 'dies'.
She
This guy is annoying man
@@JohnCena-ex6zt Hey, it's an easy mistake to make.
That isn’t what they meant. They meant Oda actually giving Merry a character in Water 7. We knew about the spirit, but it was just a spirit. It had no personality or anything, so the viewers didn’t have an emotional connection. The emotional connection came when Oda gave her a personality or character in Water 7.
@@azazelop5223 The Going Merry always had a sense of personality, even before it was explicitly shown. We became emotionally attached to it through the way Usopp treated and cared for it. Usopp, in particular, showed a deep bond with the ship, treating it like a valued crew member. His efforts to repair and maintain the Merry gave it a life of its own in the eyes of both the crew and the audience.
When the concept of the ship having a "soul" was introduced, It simply reinforced the connection we already felt. The Merry’s soul solidified that emotional bond, turning what was once a symbolic attachment into something more tangible and heartfelt.
You cant really call Usopp being impressive against Luffy convenient because its not convenient for anything, he loses anyways, so it doesnt serve any material purpose
Its the story showing how great usopp can be with the right mindset or moment, something that he doesnt see at that point
Ye
These conversations are JUST SO GOOD, i needed this level of OP analysis in my life
This isn't cat based interuptions it is cat based highlights 😊
Love the discussion❤ I didnt't comment because I might lead in to "Spoiling" you so yeah really really great, awesome review and I can't wait to see more in the future 🥰💖
One way to look at the whole “why does Luffy not look like Dragon but looks like Garp?” thing is to think that maybe Dragon looks more like his mom than his dad. And there is a such thing as people looking more like they’re grandparents than their parents so that could explain it too. We just don’t have enough information yet
Fantastic discussion! Just leaving a comment to boost the video’s performance. Also made sure to give it a thumbs up as well!
W
Ah yes the infamous theory of the One Piece fandom… “The Cuck Theory” need a full theory video on that
Ass
Enis Lobby wasn't really a wholehearted "victory" in my mind.
A victory would be repelling the Buster Call. They fulfilled the objective, but only by running away, not by actually defeating the foe like they did with Crocodile and Enel.
And of course we all know Garp and Aokiji could have demolished them if they really wanted to, so they also only "won" because their nominal enemy let them go.
I mean, they had only *one* objective in Enies Lobby - saving Robin and they did just that, so it's a happy end all around. Why would they care about repelling Buster Call marines used against themselves? Defeating every marine soldier coming their way was never their goal.
@@NoZet100
Well they didn't, but it did mean that it didn't 'feel' like a resounding victory. It felt like they had some way to go and they were lucky to get away.
They won tho
I really enjoy this longer discussions. :) Thank you for all the content.
Great podcast as always
On the Robin stuff, I don't remember if it's implied or directly said, but I always thought the reason why she ultimately ended up joining criminal organizations is because those were the people least likely to immediately just turn her over to the marines. She was basically betrayed by every regular civilian that she tried to stay with while she was on the run. So she ultimately turned to criminals/pirates. She never actively wanted to be one. Her circumstances led her to ultimately working under Crocodile, perhaps under the belief that if Crocodile needed her for her ability to read the poneglyphs, she could at least guarantee her safety until then. All while actively pursuing her dream of learning about the void century.
As for her views on people hurt by the criminal organizations that she was a part of, while she never seemed to enjoy the pain caused and killing, she had grown cold to the rest of the world. As said during this saga, the world, or at least the overarching societal structure of the world(the world government) is her enemy. If the pursuit of her dream ultimately meant that she would have to turn a blind eye to the unjust violence of the people she had to align herself with, so be it. It's not her job to care for the people that would brand her and everyone she cared for on Ohara as devils and happily see her killed just like the rest of the scholars were. The world turned it's back on her, so she turned her back on the world. Basically, the world had turned her cold, and the straw hats are the first people she has met since Ohara that have actually accepted her and are willing to protect her from the world.
As for the Rob Lucci stuff, while Lucci has a cool design, and his fight with Luffy has great moments, I really don't understand why people like him so much. He's just an edgy bloodthirsty killer with a twisted sense of justice. I don't even consider Lucci to be the main villain of the saga, that title belongs to Spandam. Lucci is just the strongest antagonist of the saga, so Luffy has to fight him because nobody else in the crew can. I still think he's a serviceable antagonist for his role in the story, but I think there are much better villains/antagonists in One Piece than Lucci.
Ye
Great discussion. To add to your statements. Honestly, I think Skypiea is the arc that gets elevated the most in retrospect. I wasn't a huge fan watching it first either. What I liked was only Noland's flashback, dance around the fire with wolves, Sun God, Earth God, Forest & Rain God interesting lore tidbits & Luffy ringing the bell for Montblanc. Alongside some funny stuff like Luffy singing and the south bird & Zoro. But my god, does Skypiea get incredible in retrospect. That said, I see W7/EL/PEL as one arc and I adore it to pieces. One of my favorite in OP and all of anime/manga. And I'm glad you liked it despite anime's flaws in how it adapts the material. (This is the best it'll be when it comes to anime pacing lol) Also yeah, your problems with Nami's fight and any other fight is purely anime. In manga everything makes perfect sense. Anime drags it all to hell. Same with random non-sense Lucci monologue during the fight. He doesn't do that in the manga.
Yea
There are many parts of storytelling that Oda is soo good at but my personal favourite aspect of his storytelling is his payoffs, it can be either at the end of an arc or a saga or even a payoff of a certain character. He takes his sweet time to setup the stuff, small titbits here and there and it all culminates in the most beautiful way I've ever seen, especially comparing to other stories One Piece for me does it the best!!
Aleczandxr said the same
1:40:16 Yes, you are correct. It is only a live action thing, there is no official 1st mate.
In the crew, a few of the crew mates take that role from time to time, and you’d be surprised, but Zoro is the one who does it the least.
As mentioned by whitebeard, shanks was a rookie/apprentice on Roger's ship. Roger died 22 years ago, you can probably guess how old shanks is.
Great podcast! I listened to the entire thing, which I don't normally do with long podcasts. Looking forward to the next arc! It's far from a fan favourite but I think you will probably enjoy it more than most are expecting.
2:16:20 The West blue mention was about Shanks' hometown and the Sake he brought with him
The Marine did mention that they're meeting in the New World
It's so wild to be hearing this podcast almost a year after you guys did your One Piece LA discussion. I remember listening to it because I was in Japan at the time. Great conversation!
01:40:00 The strawhat crew doesn't have a first mate, Oda already said Zoro is the combatant.
Yea
Yeah, it's a common misconception. I hope that people realize that role doesn't apply to the Strawhats!
Shanks being a villain is like Gojo being one... I just can't see it. I know it's a popular theory and the fandom is 50/50 on it, some want him to be bad and some don't. But personally, I think he'll be a a grey character. Also fans love Shanks too much, he's a fan-favorite in the fandom despite not being a strawhat, I don't think Oda will do it.
I also don’t think Shanks sacrificed his arm to “inspire” Luffy. I think he did lose his arm trying to save Luffy. That’s what he meant by “bet it on a new era”. He could have saved Luffy at the cost of his arm, or let Luffy die.
And he chose to save Luffy, because he knew that Luffy would become something great one day. That’s why he says “It’s just an arm”.
Because Luffy mattered more to him than an arm.
@@cartoonishidealism582 That doesn't make sense he had a billion bounty at the time
@@royalfun1031 Yeah but I think it’s just a better choice for his character AND for Luffy’s character. Shanks genuinely sacrificing his arm to save Luffy explains why Luffy is willing to risk ANYTHING to save his friends. He is following in Shanks’ example.
And yes, it’s a power scaling inconsistency but hey, One Piece has a ton of inconsistencies. I am willing to look past some inconsistencies for character consistency and emotional effect, but I’m not willing to sacrifice one of the most iconic moments in One Piece and what it represents for the sake of “power scaling”.
I don't think Oda has every arc meticulously planned, however I do believe he has had every big moment like robin, merry, and important details and milestones like poneglyphs and Raftel figured out since the start. I can look back to chapter one and onwards and see how he teased or foreshadowed something 100 chapters, 1000 chapters later. (We actually know that he's had to cut and condense the last couple sagas because he wants to end the series).
You can make an argument that he's just good at taking old things and adding context he didn't plan, but I think there are far too many for that to be a strong argument.
I think its much easier to overlook those details in the anime because your getting everything in-between the panels of the manga, I've noticed how Oda draws and frames panels as I've been going through the manga after being anime only. And it's becoming more apparent as we get closer to the end and get those big reveals.
Not a rant, or anything negative, just something a lot of One Piece fans have a dispute on.
The thing people don't get is that Oda is a master planner & improvisor. He's doing both.
That was fun podcast! Thanks for what you doing, it's a great distraction (in a good way)
I found the Lucci backstory reaction hilarious, I'm surprised people got mad at it lol
Lucci killed those soldiers because of being weak. Weak soldiers are just as guilty as criminals. Also, he's a psychopath who just loves to kill. He's using spandam's authority to justify this bloodlust. If they mentioned these 2 things about Lucci, we wouldn't be mad.
@@sheepboy2560I'm pretty sure both those things were mentioned by Lucci in the show. He said he's in C9 so he can kill people and he justified killing the hostage soldiers by saying they were weak
@@pugmasterben Read the last sentence of my comment, mron. These reactors didn't mention those 2 points.
@@sheepboy2560 brother… u shouldn’t be mad at an anime reaction at all lmao
@@CaptainSuppy Relax. It's just a show, a pass time.
Just to clarify why people were up in arms about Lucci, it's not that he 'comes back later'. It's because the show clearly explained it. It's not about being cool or badass, he's a savage and uses 'Dark Justice' as a label for his killing of those beneath him. He even said in the arc that he joined CP9 as it gave him a licence to kill. He killed those people over purely being weak, it shows his ruthlessness and that killing a person means nothing to him. It makes him dangerous.
And we discussed all of those things in the discussion portion of that reaction. People weren’t mad about what we thought, they were mad that we didn’t react the way they wanted us to, and dressed it up with a flawed justification.
Once they get around the last episodes of Thriller Bark onwards shit is gonna get crazy
I would not say this is "the big arc' but its the beginning of a new era of one piece
Interesting discussion as always. Your perspective is so different and that is why it's fun to listen to for me. I can't wait to see your reactions when you get to this arc or that other arc.
The lack of talk about the “I want to live” moment hurts my soul.
Yea
I get the while thing about Lucci being so edgy just catching them off guard. Edge is something that is rampant with like half the characters in other series (looking at you Natuto), but in One Piece it's pretty rare to get a full on edgelord character/backstory.
Even Blackbeard, a guy with a literal darkness fruit, is farrrr less edgy than Rob Lucci.
Yea
Zoro
Robin calling them by their position before, and now she calls them by their name, I think that's neat
Lucci was the first villain to almost kill Luffy. Drove him to the extreme. I would say that CP9 lived up to the expectation. They weren't nerfed, but the Strawhats were since they were conflicted about Robin's situation. In Water 7, they mostly travel as a group and Lucci is with them, who is stronger than anyone but LUffy. But yes, the beginning of Enies Lobby is weak. From Luffy and gang traveling on the train up to Blueno VS Luffy, it's all a glaze. Sanji, Robin, and Usopp on the train is great, and from Blueno on is great.
Quite good pod this was
thanks man we thought so too, might be our best podcast or at least one of the best
In regards to morality it's important to remember that the strawhat pirates are NOT heroes. They don't fight for justice or care about the greater good or anything like that. You're gonna see Luffy do some questionable things later but not only does the story not care it's very important to remember that Luffy himself doesn't care. And he never will. The strawhats DO NOT give a damn about anything that doesn't affect their immediate crew and the people they're concerned with. Thats it.
When people ask for Ranking, it's really ranking feats during an arc (Sagas became a thing when the series got longer)
For example, sanji helped usopp realise his worth and what his position in the crew is during enies lobby and closed the giant doors. Chimney and gombe helped out the entire time by finding passages, kokoro saving them a bunch of times, Usopp getting luffy to stand up, etc.
Could be just finding the Arc mvp. (Most times Luffy is left out of rankings cause he's a force of nature)
Ranking just based on favs
Really agree with the hindsight point you guys make. Also, One Piece is famously great to rewatch/reread. I actually think the 2nd watch is more enjoyable. That's probably why the fandom enjoys following peoples journey through it so much.
The list of favorite Straw Hats is fluid. It’s always changing. That’s what makes them great.
Usopp prepared. and luffy was holding back no matter how much he didn't want to.
52:35 Interesting suggestions about the Klabautermann
Just a reminder that Franky mentionned it's a spirit that appears to warn the crew of a great danger for the ship.
Half of Long Ring Long Land *is* filler. The anime had *two* Davy Back fights, but in the manga there was only one.
my favorite anime podcast hosts are here yay; Carson, Lindsay and the voices of the damned that keeps on repeating what Lindsay’ is saying. the crews all here☺️
Lost and the damned
As a long time One Piece fan and as a sometimes writer I agree with all of your thoughts in the improvisation section. And to use Carson's term I also agree that Luffy is mostly an "expansion" type of character. You guys are going to have a blast with the upcoming saga.
He said Exposition tho
If you're interested in directing and writing, for Luffy you need to read as much as you can about the literary concept of the "flat character arc". It's a concept that includes James Bond, Indiana Jones, Jim Hawkins ("Treasure Island" book), Tom Sawyer, and many others. It also includes Goku, and it does NOT include Gon. It doesn't explain Luffy as a character, but it does get you closer to understanding ways of solving him.
Luffy is a lens, a concept in itself, a living idea, a complex ideology - his perception of the world is one of the main points of view on the world around him, one might even say the center one. And his life - his reactions, his decisions, his thoughts, his dreams, his priorities and the consequences of all of this, is what builds the story around him. He is the catalyst for many changes, not all of them. And unlike many other Protoganists, he does not explore the world around him while the world tests him for strength, which brings changes to him, no - he interacts with the world constantly, while being a part of it so fully that his actions already affect the world and those who inhabit it. As happened with his crew and many enemies and allies that he has acquired. The other characters react to Luffy and his actions, more like an "event" than a "behavior". He will not change, but he can expand and deepen, through new experiences or trauma, because he is still human on top of everything.
Luffy is a concept ye
i like your guys serious style lol nice discuss btw i really enjoyed ^^
Do these guys not realise Blackbeard is Marshall D. Teach
Yea
Everything is always contextual. Especially morality. Morality is not just now and a hundred years ago, morality now and twenty years ago are different things. And as for morality in One Piece - it is built completely differently, because it is a different world. Different rules, a different economic situation, the stratification of society is much stronger, there is no stability of public safety, neither the animal nor the natural world is tamed, there are superhumans and almost demigods, there is a military tyranny of the largest police organization.
And One Piece interprets our, modern morality, only as a show - when the author begins to create points of interpretation for what is happening. The morality itself in the world of One Piece does not rely on our real one at all, it is built in another world, and is unspoken, it flows somewhere in the background and can be partially understood only by setting a goal to discover it. None of our crew, including Chopper and Usopp, are good people. Parts of our morality awaken in them, but in completely different ways that we would consider insincere.
For example, Chopper can indeed stop and start treating a suffering wounded person, but only because he is a doctor. It is his duty, it is in his rules, which he himself accepted and which his adoptive father gave him to choose from - it is not because it is the right thing to do and not because Chopper feels sorry for someone he does not know. If anything, whether Chopper feels empathy for people as a different species is already questionable. But this is not in any case a moral issue, because Chopper hardly takes morality into account even for a second during his medical activities - it does not determine anything for him.
Luffy, by our modern standards, is a psychopath. A sociopath. He lacks empathy as a personality structure. Morality is a meaningless word to him - knowing Luffy, he wouldn't even recognize the word if he heard it, it's literally white noise to him. Luffy didn't care if Koby died from Alvida's blow or not, Luffy didn't care if Zoro died from exhaustion at the base or not, Luffy didn't care if Kuro killed the villagers or not, Luffy didn't care if Alabasta was destroyed, Luffy didn't care about all the Shandians and Skypieans combined.
Luffy helped Koby because Koby stood up to Alvida and Luffy likes brave people with dreams. Luffy helped Zoro because he wanted him on the crew and until he gave up on inviting him, he wasn't going to let him die. Luffy wanted to help Usopp because Usopp is a funny nice goofy guy and Luffy liked him, and he is also Yasopp's son and seems be able to fight, so it would be good for him to be their sniper: so he went to punch Kuro in the face, and who Kuro was and whether he was right or not didn't matter at all - Kuro was a pirate too, and what he was doing didn't bother Luffy at all in the first place. Luffy helped Vivi because they just happened to be in a situation where they heard Crocodile's name, and then Igaram earned his respect by sacrificing himself, and then Vivi helped them cure Nami - he had no personal motivation, only the one to help Vivi, without Vivi he wouldn't have thought for a second about just helping some desert country.
Luffy helped defeat Enel because Enel touched his friends first and because he wanted the gold, including the bell - and Luffy had already decided that this gold was important to him to prove the existence of Skypiea to the guy with the funny head who helped them, and well, no one dares touch his friends and not get paid for it. Plus Conis, who fed him and let him ride Waver, and Enel scared her. And if it weren't for all of those things, if it weren't for his personal involvement, I highly doubt he would even care about the destruction of some island.
The best they could hope for was that Luffy wouldn't want their island destroyed because he hadn't had a chance to see it all yet, and so Enel would ruin his adventure.
That's the point. Luffy has his own point of view, and it's different from Nami's, for example, and Luffy will only follow Nami's decision if he wants to or finds his own reason, but not because Nami wants it that way or because it's the right thing to do. Luffy, Nami, Chopper, Zoro, they define for themselves what is important to them, and if it so happens that it is right, then so be it, and if not, we will kill Marines in droves, not worrying about the fact that they have families waiting for them at home. Because there is no morality that would dictate to them what is "right". For Chopper, there is his "right" and it is important and works in his head because most of this "right" was left to him by his past, as well as his father - who was also not a "good person", he was simply a person from whom Chopper himself wanted to accept his "right". The same with Nami and her mother and her talent. With Robin and her dream, her mother, fellow historians and the burden of the Ohara tragedy. With Sanji and his dream, his father. And on and on.
With your description of a villain and a hero, Luffy seems like a villain - because he won't sacrifice or compromise for anything or anyone when it comes to his dream. Literally. Including his own crew.
And the point is that heroes who look like this description of a hero are almost non-existent in One Piece. Even the Marines, who seem to be subordinated to a strict concept of justice, often have their own idea of it, like Smoker, Morgan, Koby, Garp, Aokiji, or the Five Elders. And they also don't give up on it and don't bend to people and circumstances for the common good - the best we see is Garp compromising by not accepting a promotion, but it still looks like a decision for himself and his own justice, rather than for the good and other people.
So I don't think this distinction between the two concepts works here at all. Honestly, I don't find a single "hero" in One Piece over all these years, but I also don't find a "villain". There are none - everything is too real and too explained to perceive it so flatly. In the end - "villains" exist only in books, in reality there are only people, personalities. And those who are defined as criminals, villains, tyrants, are just another one of this diversity of personalities, nothing more.
Tru
Not reading all that 😂
@@jakkalakiran1333shush
I’m Japanese university student and I study English .
This Chanel helps me to learn native English pronunciation and listening.
Also I love one piece so very good for me.
I don’t know this sentence is correct 😂
And I want to know their country.
Ppl who shit on Sanji's principles don't understand the story
And his character
He's flawed but in a great way
Will talk abt it in detail in the future but he's the goat
Sticking to his principles over his own life🚬
I loved Gonbe's stupid sound getting mimicked every time he'd make it throughout this saga during the reactions 😂
Dragon Looks like Luffy when Luffy is mad or serious....I think the day we see Dragon laugh, there might be that similarity to Garp
you forgot about marshal D teach
Was rlly nice to hear both of ur thoughts outside of a reaction! Plz ignore anyone getting upset at u taking the piss out of something, op is goofy at its core (with serious moments) and that’s okay
So
1:40:51 Zoro is not officially first mate and I doubt Luffy will ever call someone his first mate. But I agree with you guys that for all intents and purposes Zoro is the first mate.
First off, something. Second, your Luffy's family discussion is great, I choked on my tea when you expanded on your "cuck theory". It's defininetly your best One Piece podcast yet, which is fitting, since Water 7/Enies Lobby is the best OP arc imo.
Not the best arc
51:18 A One Piece TV Special Called "Episode of Merry: The Tale of One More Friend" which tells the whole story of Water 7 Enies Lobby in a summarized way, at the end we see Klabbauterman, now in the Thousand Sunny, watching the Straw Hats, but without being seen.
Wow
2:24:38 Luffy's mom is the most mysterious character in one piece ever
Nami and Usopp's new weapons are upgrades of their old ones using Skypiea Dials!
It's so good to think that you guys going to finish the next arc before Live action ss2 arrived. What a timing.
I love long podcast hahahha, I dont care if it is 4 hours more, I will dig into it, I love your insight of one piece and theories☺☺Keep going😸
Oda said someone within the crew will die, and we didn't expect it was merry
It wasn't CP9 that was nerfed but the strawhats during water 7, the confusion of Robin's situation had them second guessing themselves. Nami even says to iceberg "now that we know we can save her, we won't get beaten" or something along those lines. Which is why as soon as Nami tells Luffy that Robin's sacrificing herself, he gets the strength/drive to break the buildings he's stuck inbetween 🎉
Obbs it can be argued, but cp9 also underestimated them because of that. Specially Kalifa after taking down Sanji she probably thought she would just play around with Nami
Hm
There's a special episode called "Episode of Merry"
You may wanna watch the ending of that, at some point
When it comes to lore, I think Shanks and Blackbeard are on top. So if I were to give my take on who I’m most looking forward to seeing more of, it’s those two. they’re kinda like the Gojo and Sukuna of this verse.
I like your theories about D.
Dr Kureha said in Drum: "So the will of D lives on"
You also gotta give it to Oda that the more they advance into the Grand Line the tougher the enemies become, we know that after water 7 they get closer to marine headquarters and that the second half of the grand line is dominated by the strongest pirates. Real good for story telling 😂
Hard to manage
3:11:36 I really dont care about the "amen ah" on what you talk about here. Im here for real reaction and discussions about the anime that I love either you don't like the story or not, I genuinely love your reaction content because its real and I appreciate the authenticity you guys put out. Keep up the good work Carson and Lindsay 💖 much love and support from me. Looking forward to review podcasts like this in your one piece chanel 💖
Loved the pod! Quality and discussion were great! When you guys get caught up and get to some openings and endings that you didnt react to before, will you post your reaction to them in the channel? I would love to see you guys new reaction to the current openings now with a new perspective, but i understand that you already saw them and etc. Peace!
One at a time
Amazing discussion Loved it and can't wait to see more in the future
Shanks is not close to Ace's age.
Luffy is 17, Ace is 20, Shanks is 37 here (27 in the flashback with Luffy).
So Shanks is close to Blackbeard's age (38).
The shanks and D’s discussion was so much fun!!
I love the fact that you both thingking of Garp as a girldad cause I understand this so much. And the way lindsay said “they must’ve look alot their mother” is so sweet 😭🫶🏻
I never giving it a thought of how this D or last name passed over generation! That was sharp of you both!
Luffy being like his mum makes sense
2:16:10 they navy/five elders stated shanks and WB met in the new world, not the grand line
The New World is part of the Grand Line. It's just the second half of the Grand Line as explained by Koby after the crew got back to Water 7 from Enies Lobby.
@@darksteel78 yes but boldcast was trying to differentiate the new world from the grandline as lindsay stated later on that they are in the new world and carson replied with "thats what I was asking", because before lindsay said they were in the grandline and carson was confused since he remembered them mentioning they were nearby but he was mistaken
@@caspervstheworld I understand. I was just trying to be specific for clarity.
Yaaaaaay , BOLDcast talking about the D for 45min , my buddy looking to me like, wth you watching man xD
6:35 😂 y’all heard of Batman with prep time, let me introduce you to usopp with prep time lol
Fax
Can you guys please watch One Piece Movie 6. It was directed by Mamoru Hosoda. It was one of his work on G8 arc Episode that Carson like.
Water 7 Saga still is one of my favourite parts! So much happened and it's all just to set a new stage for a new part of One Piece :D
Can't wait for your reactions on the next couple of Arcs :D