In a short story from the 3E or 4E era, there was a short story where some Space Marines chance across some Necron stuff. The moment they see it they immediately fall back and call for heavy reinforcements and an evacuation. Their automatic response to seeing Necrons was that they were woefully incapable of fighting this foe. Anyway in the novel Indomitus two dozen Primaris(tm) kill over a thousand Necrons in melee and only six of them are even hurt.
It’s interesting how Primaris get one-shotted in even the current cinematics by regular Necrons. Warhammer powerscaling is fickle and inconsistent at best.
i think we are settling down from the indomitus era bullshit marines since the entire squad of space marines (including a captain/luitenant) from the 9th edition trailer have been revealed to have been folded after the trailer ends .
@@joshuafarrington3649 Exactly my point. "Uh...yeah actually, as a retcon, they totally lost after you saw them effortlessly massacring their way through the Newcrons. You know, offscreen. But it totally happened!" That's a marketing move, not writing, and is entirely incompatible with what we were actually shown. GW's a very big believer in Tell, Don't Show.
And i instantly visualize the intro from Dark Crusadw, where seemingly a decent platoon of Blood Ravens is demolished within seconds by conveniently recently awaken necron tomb
Feels weird saying that 5th edition makes Necrons less grimdark because it 'humanizes' them when the lore ends up having the new-crons not be immune to the grimdark themselves, having their own suffering and potential bitter fate, the natural decay that comes from sleeping for millions of years, the horror of their biotransference being aknowledged that drives those who can still think to insanity, etc etc. Rather than being immune to it because they are just content in killing and murdering and just boiling down to being the second (or third) existential threat to the galaxy at large beside Tyranids (and chaos). Compared to the Imperium's whole "Sir Girlyman comes back to life with help of a 'not like the other girls' space elf gf, and with help of Mr. Robot Wannabe Crawler after TEN THOUSAND YEARS are able to deploy the Super Duper Marines that are better than the old Normie Marines with all this new designs and concepts for a faction that is supposed to be known for their refusual to create anything new and then the Super Duper Marines boltered all over the chaos and xenos", the robot skeletons being developed to be more than glorified killbots doesn't seem as anti-grimdark as you said.
Also very cool that the example you used for 'bad' retcons is female custodes, a minor retcon that doesn't impact anything about the emperor's super special bodyguards beyond "hey some of them can be female if you want". Nowhere near the whole faction rework that happened with the necrons or even the squats (now known as Leagues of Votann, aka corporate clones that can't escape the shadow of DRG due to a lack of any deeper lore, instead of rogue abhuman bikers with land trains and actual space dwarves). Really letting some bias through there of something more whiney, especally with the Gamza cameo.
Agreed. The only thing I didn't like about the new-crons was turning the c'tans into pokémons although I can see the reasoning why since GW wrote themselves into a corner when they wrote them as realspace's chaos gods and had to find a way to nerf them without taking away their cosmic horror theme and thought that have them shattered and sealed by the necrons was a good idea (whether you think the same or not is up to you personally I don't mind anymore)
@bruhmoment2600 I did. Its easy to say there could be female custodies when 40k doesn't have cannon any longer. The whole Horus heresy novels and siege of terra plus the codexes in before 10th all male custodies.....well if we stay consistent with "cannon". But because of the "retcon" it changes completely of the view of the custodies in large and it gives you the idea of, why even bother reading the HH and other books since Games Workshop will change things on a whim and its not the only thing they have changed.
I think the 5th ed lore writers realised they messed up with removing the "old school kill all organics necrons" by adding the "destroyer plague" which removes their nobles and rulers personas to going back to the 3rd ed necrons and some tomb worlds are controlled solely by Tomb World AI so that is also a throwback to 3rd Ed, and also that orange coloured dynasty that deletes organics. Also one thing i noticed about the Ctan retcon in 5th, that they had the C'Tan, beings of the pure physical universe with no warp reflection, that are intrinsic to our reality, have the ability to consume souls or warp energy from the necrontyrs discarded forms, that shouldn't be possible, I remember one entry in 3rd ed where a daemon talks to Abbadon iirc about the Ctan consuming the physical forms or biological matter/energy of the Necrontyr and discarding the souls, which flooded into the Warp and were consumed by warp predators on mass. Why they retconned it to have the C'tan consume souls like the Chaos Gods or Daemons could doesn't make sense either.
Probably to limit it like ‘oh, uh yeah… it is literally using our bullets as food, and will probably munch our world… that is what the bugs do we can’t have two factions doing rhe same thing!’ Honestly sun based/energy based beings sounds more interesting and then ‘oh fuck yeah we now have metal bodies we can leave the sun and not starve to death!’ Being the catalyst for the war in heaven sounds so simple and fantastic at the same time. ‘The sun is giving us cancer.’ Releases beings from the cancer sun. Old Ones: *panic*
@@silent_stalker3687 I found the Ctan eating sun/life energy/radiation far more interesting than eating warp energy/souls as we already had chaos doing that, If the necrons win, the Ctan in the new lore would starve to death because every living creature would loose its soul through the pylon network cutting off the warp for good, while in the old lore the ctan would have no limits to their feasting and not have to worry about warp predators and psykers.
Okay, but on the grimderp bit. Not every single moment every all the time has to be depressing or grim, etc. You need contrast and different moments, otherwise the trope is just cheesy and overdone. For example, genuine romance or a semi happy ending in one story, doesn't change the over all setting in other stories. The moments of good should be rare, but still a thing. Like when the one armed marine beats the destroyer in that animation
Back in the day the 3rd edition codex was just something else. Written purely from imperial perspective with the little scrap of information they had about this inknown foe rising from tombs, it set the tone of an ominous, horrific enemy completely devoid of every emotion, making them a complete antithesis to chaos which is raw emotion. Soulless, heartless, often even mindless machines, which clearly was inspired by Terminator and brought forth this very same almost primal fear. And then they turned into whatever this whole dynasty crap is, completely removing any mystery or aura they had. I miss 3rd edition Necrons.
@@clydemarshall8095 For me personally I got enough tragedy out of the imperium as a whole. The whole thing feels like one giant cooking pot of tragedy. What I miss from the necrons is that feeling of slight unease or terror I got from them. I never got legit scared, but there was something thrilling about the fact that they could not be reasoned with. You either fled from them, baited them into fighting someone else, like the eldar would do or you fought them. With the 5th edition necrons and the silent king involved suddenly diplomacy is an option. It would be like John Connor in the future going to Skynet's HQ and sitting down to have a talk with it. It would remove some (Certainly not all) the tension if the evil force can be reasoned with.
I prefer the newer necrons as opposed to the old 3rd edition ones. They simply are more entertaining for me while being capable of that horrific grimdark beauty I love. The Twice Dead King showcases exactly why they work better: more interesting characters. The way Oltyx tries to fight off the flayer curse and the depressing showcase of what missing a soul looks like is what makes the modern necrons more enjoyable. It’s a lot like Skaven you have your horrific nightmare fuel science and evil experiments but also have a fucking hilarious character roster. The Infinite and the Divine would never exist under 3rd edition. Keep in mind I was introduced to 40K through the first Dawn of War games so I have a soft spot for my older necrons, but they would reached their narrative limit far too quickly. The old necrons would’ve had the same issues the Tyranids have now with a handful of named characters and almost nothing from their perspective. This is fine for the Tyranids since they are an extragalactic threat with no history in our galaxy, but the Necrons aren’t like that they have a long history with the Eldar and a lot of narrative potential for other factions that simply wouldn’t work if they were still basically robots. As for the reasons why they wish to go back to flesh, read necron stories and you’ll see being a soulless robot with the mind of an organic creature is torture. Oltyx claws at his metallic throat to breathe when he starts to panic. No modern necron can ever make art or music nor engage with art or music in any meaningful way. The only way to prevent the flayer virus is be obsessive towards goals you’ll never accomplish(hence why Trayzn is seemingly immune since he always one artifact away from finishing his museum). They are immortal sure but they lack the very things that make life worth living. The whole reason the silent king hates the nids is because they would doom the Necrons to forever wander dead planets until they inevitably malfunction. Plus they didn’t get rid of the old necrons they simply renamed them the Empire of the Severed and added destroyer cults to other dynasties. They also didn’t sanitize the modern necrons I don’t know where you got that from. Illuminor Szeras literally experiments on still living subject carefully pulling them apart and studying them to see he can master life and death to ascend to godhood. The pariah nexus is terrifying bringing Astartes to their knees before making planetfall. The previously mentioned depth added to the flayer virus is amazing. You’d have to try hard to ignore the terrors of the modern necrons. I understand preference but the modern necrons are far more interesting than a less interesting chaos gods using robot with little to no personality past DEATH HAS COME FOR YOU. Especially when compared to a faction of soulless people slowly going insane while wielding fragments of their old gods as batteries.
Very close to my own opinion as a 3rd ed. Necron fan. Some details go wide but the core of the faction being killed off by the change definitely caused a lot of consternation. As I said to a newer Necron enjoyer "Old 'crons were GOING to win 40k, new 'crons CAN win 40k".
As an Oldcron fan and one introduced to 40K by a mix of Dawn of War and my parents buying me a classic Necron Heavy Destroyer (my very first mini), yes. Yes, they were just going ti win 40K.
I think there is this thing called "The Narrative" which would be a lot shorter and less entertaining if the most powerful faction in the setting was a united empire that decided to conquer the galaxy and eradicate all life with little capable of opposing. You have some points in that GW seems to be toning down the Grimdark, but you can sell more stuff if that stuff is marketable. Also I think they really wanted Space Tomb Kings.
You just contradicted yourself mixing with entertainment and grimdark which they don't mix together if you don't understand what grimdark is meant to portray.
@@TheNellop If the Necrons were united the setting wouldn't exist, I don't disagree with you in that there have been many changes that aren't really "Grimdark". but this is also a franchise, their decisions are typically profit based (except that femstodes nonsense) the things they do is to drive sales for inordinately priced plastic miniatures. I do understand what grimdark is and we agree things are going kind of baby mode. But I don't entirely think every choice they've made, like "humanizing" Necrons, was a bad decision. Though your point on them being cooler when they were more mysterious and alien is agreeable.
@TheNellop Entertainment doesn't mean "It makes you feel good and happy", it means "Something that amuses, pleases, or diverts". If you didn't find old Necrons entertaining you literally wouldn't have made a clearly passionate video about them. I personally would have never picked that original Necrons codex for my first army when I got into 4th edition if I didn't find the concept of playing an army of emotionless skeletal robots entertaining. Comments like this is why you are going to never getting arguments "In Good Faith" because instead of responding to anything the person said in terms of their argument about the Narrative, you make this comment that is literally nonsensical. People do not engage with things unless it entertains them in some way. Could be joy, could be intrigue, could be thrill. Your comment, as is, implies you don't find/think Grimdark is entertaining which makes me wonder why you would care that 40K got less Grimdark?
Virgin 3rd Ed Necrons: "Oh, we're a species of little bitches who were enslaved by our gods! Woe is me!" Gigachad 5th Ed Necrons: "Though our souls were taken from us, we shattered and enslaved our gods. We were there when the stars were young and after the last of them dies, we will remain. For we are immortal." That said, I view the 3rd Ed as laying out the groundwork for what will later become the 5th Ed. They never really had that level of mystery to them from what you've shared but they were pretty cool. 5th just gave them some spice and variety and made them infinitely scarier than before. The fact they not only overthrew their gods but enslaved them already puts them leagues ahead of their 3rd Ed counterpart in terms of "Oh shit!" factor. Now if only GW could realize just how scary the current Necrons really are.
...Or- 3rd Ed: Creeping menace that inspire an almost existential dread & are widely regarded as the eventual doom of the galaxy; cold & inevitable as death itself... Vs- 5th Ed: Knock-off tomb kings _IN SPEESS_ who can't get their sh*t together enough to actually conquer anything because they're too busy squabbling amongst themselves... Uh, yeah... I think I know which iteration I prefer!
Fully agree, the Necron was a sleeping dragon, a danger the imperium wasn't capable of handling if they awoken, like the Borg in Star Trek. Cold and emotionless, their awakening would be a march to galactic domination. Now they are underpowered, infighting factions, not mysterious. This is the fate of modern GW, they need to constantly release some new bigger badder threat. They even made the minifigs less cool. I loved the 3rd edition Necrons that came with clear green tubes you put into the gauss rifles, the transparent green was a nice touch. They don't even got that now.
5:33 No, that doesn't make more sense. 3rd Edition Necron Codex: "In the shade of Terra, beneath the mountains of mist, there is a new type of death. A sacrifice of men, but the precious souls are not consumed, they are cast adrift. Many are the daemons that wait like carrion to feast on the leavings from this rich table." C'tan canonically can't eat souls. Changing from that is a retcon that just makes them another kind of daemon.
The Titans were the original "gods" in mythology, they were overthrown by the Olympians who were of lesser height and strength. Its possible to overcome a greater foe if you change the nature of the battle. I think there should have been a better narrative explanation for the change.
You’re actually wrong The codex specifically mentions the deceiver adding the pariah gene into the human gene pool And then has an entire short story about a blank being enticed by visions into going to a tomb world (I am an oldcron supporter.)
So I think the problem here personally is the nature of Warhammer being a perpetual franchise it really takes the edge off factions like the oldcron and the tyranid since it heavily waters down there grimdark potential because they can't be the unstoppable monsters they would be in any other setting because they have to keep selling you overpriced plastic men and books. It's why I prefer when Warhammer doesn't take it self seriously and is just cool guy punches spikey cool guy while the heavy metal is playing in the background.
There is literally 10000 years from the Heresy to present the explore and sell us new figures with the mediocrity of the replacements for the original creators that they drove off
5th Ed ruleset was imo fun to play because it struck a good balance between being a simple rule-set with a pinch of complexity but became the poster boy of power creep...oh look a new OP flavor of space marines GW wants to sell came out! 🤑 The 5th ed necron codex leaned fully into the power creep aspect of 40k: "here's the latest OP models with freshly made up lore for you to buy!"
"Hey, unfathomable immortal Eldridge horror from beyond, put this metal beetle thing on the back of your neck, y'know.. it'll be fun...", "Whut? Yuh okay... *click* Nurrrr you pranked me, bruh."
Man I will admit I kinda respectfully disagree but from looking at your replies and how you respond even to people giving their own respectful disagreements and own opinions. I'm kinda wondering if you're actually doing things in good faith.
They are not here for a conversation, they are here to give me that lecture attitude and straw man me to death. Ill give some examples Grim dark as I have repeatedly said before its so messy and there is no such thing as hope. But the counter argument is trying to add a little of hope in there but by definition that is not the case. In this video I talk about specifically using a contrast principle of 3rd and 5th edition codexes. The counter argument is always talking about new books or giving non argument fallacy that are not related to this topic. K why not the old books? I have only found someone vaguely mentioning old books pre 5th edition but it never specified of which ones which in the comments here. I'm here showing objectively when it comes to grimdark 3rd edition is superior by definition but all I get is opinions of what they like, its better that its not grim dark (even though gw shows it otherwise), ect. ect. Its never objective and its mostly straw man arguments.
Yes! Finally found someone who agrees with my viewpoint on Necrons! Absolutely loved the 3rd edition lore. The whole "Necrons are barely-sentient beings totally under the thrall of giant Lovecraftian star vampires" was great, it really leaned into the cosmic horror angle. Since 5th Ed, the Necrons have just become yet another race of boring military aliens, and I hate it. Don't even get me started on the whole "Necrons and Blood Angels BFFs" thing, or how the giant Lovecraftian star vampires got humiliatingly retconned into giant Grimdark Pokemon. The only good thing to come out of 5th edition Necron lore was Trazyn, because the idea of an ancient being of incredible power who only uses his power to steal unique items across the galaxy because he wants to make the greatest museum ever is hilarious.
Necrons lore: "Necrontyr lives sucked, so they sacrificed themselves to dark gods, unknowable and indescribably powerful living entities. They were so advanced and powerful that they casually annihilated the entire galaxy, and then enjoyed it so much that they slept to wait for life to regrow so that they could do it again. During this time their science was so advanced that they accurately predicted the movement of every single astronomical body in the entire galaxy for sixty million years into the future without issue, and their technology persisted in perfect working condition. They are the ONLY faction in 40K to have ever actually achieved their full goals. They're playing New Game+. They are the ultimate end state of the setting and hard counter everything that exists. Their technology is so indescribable and unknowable that it appears as magic." ----------------- Newcrons lore: "Necrontyr lives sucked so they tried to fix it and failed, uh, they left but their lives still sucked because...um, reasons, and then they sucked so much that they all started trying to kill each other in a second massive failure. Then they met the Old Ones, tried to kill them, and sucked so hard that they failed a third time. Then they immediately went into a civil war, failing at life a fourth time. Then they met the Deceiver and became Necrons, but they were very sad about it. Then they mostly beat up the Old Ones, although they had a very difficult time doing so and they were heavily massacred by attempting it. After this they killed the C'tan, offscreen, with weapons so powerful that they were never used or mentioned again. This resulted in a heavy massacre of what small number of them remained. After this they fled in terror from the Eldar because they were so beat up. They didn't beat the Eldar before killing the C'tan offscreen because...uh, but well, so then they decided to stop fighting or defending themselves and just sleep their enemies to death. The Eldar then proceeded to blow up most of the tombs that were now not defending themselves whatsoever, resulting in yet another massacre of the Necrons in a tiny period of time. THEN, what handful the Eldar couldn't find entirely failed to predict any astronomical movements whatsoever. Most were destroyed, resulting in a FOURTH massacre of their numbers with zero replenishment, and what teeny-tiny handful remained failed wildly because their tech was far too poor to attempt this. Now what tiny scant remains of them persist are led by wacky slapstick cartoon characters, and everything they have is crumbling, falling apart, and failing on every level. Their numbers are miniscule, and their technology is so shattered and worthless that the AdMech even casually outclass it on a whim. They require a nonstop flow of liquid coolant to every part of their body or they shut down in seconds. They require constant repairs at all times using physical scarabs and beams and most can't ever actually repair or even really be salvaged at all. If they want to even attempt their hallmark reanimation they require a specific reanimation ship directly overhead their location or it doesn't work and they just perma-die if killed, and this can also fail if they just get punched really hard." HOWEVER All of this is a dramatic upgrade, I am assured, because they are precisely what ageless aliens should be: human and relatable.
to be fair, there is some badass factor in newcrons having KILLED THEIR GODS and now using them to power up their stuff instead of just serving them, which is what chaos already does. Still yeah they lost a lot of their mystery, no longer being implacable death machines but instead a collection of geriatrics with varying levels of mental illnesses. It does bring more variety into the faction and more to work with for stories, and also more for players to come up with an interesting background for their own force... but in the process, they went from a nigh unknowable threat to something too close to orks, unsure if it wants to be this unstoppable threat... or just silly and funny instead.
@@thorveim1174 Sure, I agree with that in principle, but following that logic, Tyranids should have all kinds of individuals with complete individuality. Otherwise they aren't human and relatable enough, and it's impossible for there to be stories about them and it's impossible for players to come up with backgrounds for their own forces. It's not true, it's just catering to people with a poor imagination who lack the ability to conceptualize the fact that there are people and things different from themselves...AKA Redditors..
@@Ankhtowe its not so much about them being human, and more about them having variety within the faction itself. As for the nid thing, do note that basically nothing is written with them as the protagonists... Fully agree changing them the same way necrons did would kill the faction completely, but yeah they dont lend themselves well to being anything else than the bad guy of the week because once you have talked about nids once, you basically talked about all of them already. Necrons meanwhile went from all being silent clankers to a race with various factions with differing goals and motives... Some of which possibly acting the exact same way as their 3rd edition counterpart. That does leave far more space for stories to happen that arent a copy/paste of eachother. Now is it worth the sacrifice of what 3rd edition necrons were? I guess thats up to each individual player, but seeing how popular some characters that newcrons allowed to exist are (Trazyn would not be able to exist under 3rd edition lore), its hard to argue it was a completely bad move, especially as oldcrons can still exist within the newcrons. However i will always miss the 3rd ed ones regardless
@@thorveim1174 "Popular = good" is a poor argument though. No one actually likes Trazyn for example, they like the meme version of Trazyn they read about in a comedy book which, by the way, also established that Newcrons can be choked to death. That's a thing that happens in that same book. Far too many people get the entirety of their lore knowledge from memes, which is why the best thing TTS ever did for Warhammer was die. As such, it is very very easy to argue that it was a bad move. Not for the company, but for the integrity of the setting certainly. There's a reason that "may your hobby hit mainstream audiences" is such a strong curse. Incidentally, GW has also been peppering several books now with plot hooks that Tyranids are trying to seek out and "infest", to use the Zerg term, individuals. They're definitely planning on making their own Kerrigan counterpart. Furthermore, Necrons didn't go from an entirely silent clanker race to what they are now. They were that *from a human perspective*. Not from their own, and that's the thing of it. You know they have their own language, their own society, their own structure, and you aren't a part of it. You cannot comprehend it, you will never comprehend it, you will always be inferior to it. The incomprehensibility IS the character. If you (the colloquial "you") need to come down and tell you how you're allowed to behave and imagine then that's your own failing. Your own weakness. Finally, as far as the Nids being protagonists are concerned, good. The Imperium are the good guys of the setting anyway.
Bringing up the Adeptus Mechanicus, an important distinction between them and the Necrons is that Mechanicus do not have their souls removed/eaten in the process of being augmented. They are still "Alive". Newcrons are spiritually dead, but consciously alive. The desire for organic bodies is clearly a doomed hope of having souls again to have all the things that come with BEING alive that Mechanicus would still have in varying cases/degrees Bodily Sensations, the abilty to procreate and experience intimacy, they sight of a living person in the mirror, the ability to create; all things Necrons have lost, and the ones that still have any mind left even have nothing to do but pass time. The Necrons didn't just lose their souls. They lost the reasons they even wanted to escape death in the first place. There isn't a Necrontyr society anymore. There isn't a Necrontyr culture anymore. There will never be a new Necrontyr. They are dead. Just instead of their skeletons being mindless, some get to suffer the consequences of the Silent King's foolishness until they find something that can either kill them or save them. And in a setting like Warhammer, even in modern less Grimdark Warhammer, nobody is going to save them.
The current Necrons would be better if they were trying to get their souls back rather than fleshy bodies. The rebellion would still work if the leaders were Necrons that kept their personalities/more of their souls thus allowing them to not be as controlled or at all.
I am a person who got acquainted with the necrons during the 4th edition, the oldcrnos were my main faction and in many ways I agree with the author of the video.The Oldcrons were a truly dark and terrible faction, doomed forever to be slaves of terrible and alien hungry gods because of their hatred and stupidity, wishing to turn people into the same monsters (The Pariahs were only the beginning of humanity's transformation into a new race of slaves to the Ctan),They radiated the atmosphere of how they greatly influenced the galaxy (Influence on the evolution of other species, a huge role in the mythology of many races and factions (Many minor races of xenos were developed precisely thanks to the old lore of necrons, for example, it was thanks to the oldcrons that we learned a lot about the Hruds)).At the same time, and in the context of more modern events, they were quite significant (In the old lore, the necrons were one of the reasons for the appearance of the black legion (It was the Deceiver who helped Abbadon find his sword), as well as it was the necrons who organized the Gothic war), which again worked on the image of a powerful ancient threat, while they were just perfectly presented, ancient machines, every victory over which is a feast and which even such fanatics as the word bearers are afraid of, it's cool.Also, the old lore was just rich in various interesting concepts (the Parties mentioned earlier, arguments about the differences and similarities of order and chaos, and many other things).The Oldcrons also did a great job of portraying aliens, the necrons and k'tan were intelligent and had a personality, but this personality was completely alien and evil.The new ent unfortunately abandoned most of the things that made the oldcrons unique (And also just made a number of very strange and unnecessary changes (I still don't understand why it was necessary to change the wraith, necron bandits are much cooler than just robots)),At the same time, having too humanized the faction, which is why they scare much less, they look mostly like just petty tyrants (Which is much less original, since this is a description of most of the inhabitants of the 40k galaxies),Also, the presentation has become much weaker (For example, in the old lore, even the necrons of war were a serious threat, while now they are mostly B1 from SW),At the same time, the changes were very poorly explained, and there was no place left for the old dragons in the new lore (Old storylines are not being developed, and it is still impossible to play with the dynasty serving Ktan (Copying the Tomb Kings of GW and did not add followers of Nagash in space, one of the most interesting sub-factions of WH FB)),At the same time, I can't help but notice that there were positive moments, I understand why necrons have fans, there were several interesting characters and cool units (I really like the concept of cryptek),but in my opinion, the changes were too radical and unnecessary, most of the new units and concepts, with some refinement, could be implemented in the context of the old lore of necrons (Oldcrons were already aristocrats capable of intrigue (This was mentioned in the code of the 4th edition, as well as in xenology (I strongly advise you to read it to the author of the video, as well as to all who read this comment, a great background book)),there were already necron characters (The First Pariah, the Herald of Storms), who already had personality and were characters, if they wanted to develop the personality of the Necrons, they could do it in the context of the old lore and atmosphere, which would create a much more interesting faction.
I see where you're coming from, but the new lore is much much better, Necrons actually have characters and personalities which the old lore simply didn't really have and "Kill all life" is such a boring motivation for it to be your entire faction's deal. Now we have characters like Trayzn who is an absolutely phenomenal character that simply cannot exist in the old lore. And the politics between the various necron lords like Imotekh and Szarekh is always super interesting to read about. And their desire to return to flesh gives them such a great dynamic the AdMech whenever they cross paths because the AdMech desire to get to where the necrons are and the necrons are always like, "It's not as good as it seems", which is such an interesting dynamic
You could argue then we already have the one dimensional kill everything faction old necrons are essentially just metal tyranids atleast with the current ones they fill a niche whether you are a fan or not
Thank you. Always saw them as something alienated from any sort of feelings, silent and turned to a husk, due to the gamble they took when they made a deal with the Devil. Sort of a reminder for the humanity to what can happen if they'll blindly belive the gifts that Chaos can offer. Making them too humanlike, with regrets, desires, or, C'tan forbid, fears removes that remorseless and uncaring fear element that they should emanate.
Cool video. I don't agree with some points, others I did...thank you for showing the old lore of the Necron's before the retcon... can't seem to find it anywhere online.
Yeah its hard to find some digital copies as GW being GW and not allowing people passing books around to people. It will require some deep looking if you are doing it solo like how I did. Unless you're lucky to have some people to share info around. Or you are rich enough to by the physical people.
Having always found "eldritch horror" to be somewhat ludicrous even at the best of times, I'm not sure which delivers more _schadenfreude:_ Oldcron purists getting their Necrodermis panties in a bunch or Nid-lover meltdowns...🤔
Let's be honest, having two factions that just want to erase all life from the galaxy would be boring. Oldcrons were cool and scary, sure, but newcrons are great. Diversity in motivation and goals makes for a more dynamic and interesting faction to follow in narratives. And let's not kid ourselves, if necrons remained written as cosmic horror, they would just get their asses handed to them even more often than they do now. Why? Because faceless adversaries are perfect cannon fodder for bolter prawn novels about astartes kicking ass. Just look at the tyranids, again. When they were introduced they were, to quote a Magos of the Mechanicus "DEATH!!! BY THE MACHINE GOD!!! DEATH!!!" They threatened Ultramar and wiped out the Ultramarines 1st company, most of the chapter and Marneus Calgar got Black Knighted by the Hive Lord. I'll repeat myself. They almost destroyed the Ultramarines, the Poster Boys of the Poster Boys. An inquisitor went insane and started blowing up worlds en masse because he thought it was the only way to stop them, to starve them. And though he was excommunicated, no one ever said he was wrong. Now look at Tyranids in modern 40K. They are an afterthought at best in most narratives because they don't make for compelling villains or even stories most of the time. Seen one planet get devoured, seen 'em all and they don't change much. Best you can do is show how different factions confront them and get cool battles and action scenes out of them. Best we've gotten was the devastation of Baal and that was still just a retread of the Tyranid introduction with Blood Angels instead of Ultramarines. It had some cool scenes but sadly you just can't be afraid of Tyranids anymore. Not when them winning 1 campaign, eating 1 world on screen, is an event for the whole community. Meanwhile Newcrons have easily one of the best and most reccomended Warhammer novels ever published The Infinite and The Divine. I understand why you would be pissed about losing the oldcrons since they are also the ones I first met. But it's the best thing that could happened to them.
Sometimes it better to let things go. So, im not going to argue into a brick wall. That would be pointles. Newcrons are better BECAUSE they aren't grimdark. It makes them far more unique and interesting instead of just hur-dur kill everything. Also how dare you slander the infinite and the divine
Imagine thinking the necrons we're better when they literally had less personality than the tyranids lmao you're just another tourist who only discovered 40k recently because of space marine 2
Missed opportunity to insert courtney gears song, still a good video. Humanizing some alien just means that the writers lack creativity and the ability to think outside the box.
8:37 because he learned of the existence of tyranids after he broke the device and gave the other necron lords their free will? Him coming back made sense because why would he just abandon his race to annihilation even though he betrayed them before?
Going by their first few books was before 5th, it seemed it was a writing issue. The tyranids had genestealer cults- the Necrons not so much and couldn’t. Pre 5th would be perfect counter writing wise and could ironically replace the ‘Lorgar foresaw the Tyranids’ Now if lets say some C’than slept, others battled it out and well… ‘wait that fucker must’ve hit me on purpose!’ You know, basically Beholder paranoia. This would add in a lot- openinga for Flayers to be made, make the Silent King basically rewrite history and make its own lore- a bit of a escape fantasy with him behind it and the Oz that knows he is a sham. Then the Oz leaves- finds the Tyranids and is like “okay living as a sham is not so bad i bette- what the fuck has my dream devolved into?!” Now he has to deal with his creations own drama and feuds he organized with C’tan shards (artificial/new born ones he manipulated) and so on. The souless drones would be the true Necrons, the ones with personalities would be ‘oh yeah okay so my sims were too real and i had way too much hope they would get over the smallest of issues and become stronger’ and then the flayers would be ‘Flesh is gone, C’tan is gone, go get C’tan, go get Flesh, simple as.’ “Reclaim what was lost, Flayed ones- no no i mean reclaim my shards not your flesh… uh, where is the ‘undo order button’ oh this thing… okay okay i’m just gonna go and fix… what are you doing with that thing that can trap me… i’m just going to fix this button it’ll be like a few minutes, your batteries can last thousands of year- hands off… help, help!!!”
Funnily enough, in Pariah Nexus the Necrons are actually undergoing a civil war, there the Storm Lord is going against the Silent King arguing that it’s actually better for them to be robots. And if you still want oldcrons there’s The Severed, a faction of Necrons who got their personalities deleted and now act like mindless alien machines. Also gotta disagree with you about destroying the device being a stupid decision on the Silent King’s part. I can see why he would do something like that and banish himself from the galaxy to atone for his sins of dooming his entire race. It also makes it more grimdark that the ONE THING he needs to put an end to his civil war with the Storm Lord was destroyed by his own hands right when he needed it most. And like I said I disagree with your personal definition of grimdark. IMO to be truly grimdark you need a small bit of life and hope to inspire people to push themselves further for a brighter future even if it’s pointless. There’s a reason Hope was a the bottom of Pandora’s box.
You're doing an non argument fallacy where you're justifying a kings job and not having a plan b just in case because of emotion he messed up instead contributing it to his own uses of what he has at his disposal. (its like Im sad so Ill go in my room and never come out attitude) Then again this not about the character I blame more on the authors writing the character so poorly and it doesn't make him what he is suppose to act like a king. You see you are quoting the new lore, with the storm lord, wouldnt it be wise for the silent king to have the device or another backup and he wouldn't have an civil war issue at all in the first place? Silient king sounds like hes smart with 300 iq but they are written by 40 iq room temperature authors and didnt do a good job with that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Find me a definition that allows hope in the word Grimdark. If you allow good endings, hopeful moments it takes the value away of what grim dark truly is by definition. It is better for someone to not escape from a building at all or escape but sacrificing everything including himself (like hes dead inside personality) in a setting. Its not even an personal opinion it is a fact. This is from definition of Grim dark and the isolated word Grim and none mention hope at all. (I looked around about dark but it keeps mentioning closed lights but it is meant to relate to dark fantasy genre) I know we have discussed this before but I am much more entrenched now because I have looked around and see multiple places with consistent definition of grimdark or grim. Ngl you should join my discord and have more talks about this or more at some point.
@@TheJaranuJanic I can do genuine responses the issue is you cannot reason with the unreasonable. I am talking against a room temperature iq individuals which it is the current 40k community. They are not here for a conversation they are here to lecture people like me with 4 paragraphs and more and thinking I come to their terms. I did that at first but it became exhausting for every single comment to the point someone pointed out of what their intentions are. But from what I am seeing at least you are quite new knowing of what I do. I just troll with some which they take it too seriously and don't get it which that makes it funny or if they are actually have good constructive criticism related to what I actually said in the video like redeyes comment here. I don't mind to have a chat. But unfortunately its about "winning" for them not having a discussion or debate.
@@TheNellop This is indeed my first video of yours, so when I saw those responses they did come to me as a bad sign. Sorry if I jumped to conclusions, but its the first vid of yours I saw and then the first comments I saw were troll responses.
I remember when the crons were changed. They have slowly become "Orky" since then in my opinion. Not the terrifying personification of slow inevitable death
Oh no, the moment u mentioned female custodes is when your true colors showed. Please return to R/HorusGalaxy and join the other rants about how the good old times were better.
Well personally I really enjoy the necron’s lore, I even prefer a codex full of details about the army and how their abilities work in story. Of course warhammer is more about a good mix of gameplay and lore, but how the dosage must be done is more subjective than anything. Their is people like you who prefer a simple story and more gamplay and people like me who prefer the lore to the game. Personally I think than GW should make the paper codex focus on the lore, and with in it a flash code who give you access to the current rules of the table top with a printable pdf. So like this everyone is happy. Also you should give a chance to the new necrons, they are fascinating, maybe try to read the twice dead king if you like grim dark stories, the audio book is amazing! (If a mention of 2 min who implied the existence of a trans character in the second tome doesn’t scare you XD) I’ll will wrote also a more salty comments to explain you some of your misconceptions about the necrons, but don’t feel force to read it if you don’t want ˆˆ Also if you like old mindless necrons their is the severed worlds, necrons worlds who have been awaken early by the tomb spirit (the ia who control their basic protocol) to react to an immediate threat, making everyone including the nobles mindless automaton, they just come out to eliminate all life on the planet, even worse, the spirits tomb tend to want more, attacking other tomb worlds and erasing their the personnality of their necrons to grow its own army of mindless machines… and BANG! Old schools necrons baby!
So… you have misenderstood the new necron lore… First what do you mean it’s less grim dark ?! Now each noble necrons has the full capacity to understand their situation and feel all the pain who come with it, also it allow to have empathy for them, now when a noble fight a chapter master you are afraid because you wnat none of them to die! Because you have follow their journey, their goal, their dream, their struggle… you know than in an other world they could have been allied and even friends… but in 40k one of them has to die… how is it less grim dark than chapter master fight the strongest of the xeno robots?! Not convincing enough? Their was a tail of one of the scientists who made bio-transfert possible (he wasn’t Szeras), he was doing that to save his wife and kids. But when he send theim in the forge what come back was mindless automaton because the process wasn’t complete, when he was changed into a necrons his loyal services allow him to have body able to kepp his personality and now he has to live with that all his eternal life(?). How is it less grim dark than a mindless automaton?! Second the necron will never ally completely with the imperium of mankind, even with the blood angels call it a truce would be more accurate, all the fight the necrons have just send the minimum of their forces, using the blood angels as meat shields. Thirdly the idea of reverse bio transferance is not love by all necrons, some prefer their metal body and will gladly eradicate all biological life. But the majority want to reversers it because it’s horrible ! First the obvious, you can’t eat good food, feel the nice warm of the sun, enjoy games, make love… also you don’t have a soul, which considerably reduces your capacity to create new things or arts. Then depending on the quality of your body you have lost of your personality and become a parody of yourself. And only the silent king had a perfect body able to keep his personality untouched. And the long sleep has damaged most of people minds… despite being imortals they can’t enjoy life Not enough ? Those necrons are babies for having feelings? Okay let’s see the pratical part of things, necrons are promised to extinction, they can’t make more of themselves (in the new lore). And even if it’s hard a necrons can die for good if you finish them before their transfert in their sarcophagus. But even if they manage to escape their is none problem, even the best of resurrection machines are incapable to completely restore their mind, their is always minor defaults, and the more it happens the more default their mind will have. And most of the resurrection machines are not the best… you have case of basic soldiers (those who had no personalities) become incapable of moving or following orders after having been resurrected too much time. In millions of years the necron’s empire will be only a pale reflection of a pale reflection of a pale reflection of what they were before… Ho! Also you have the destroyer and flayer virus, the first turn you into a murder machine who want to annihilate all life (their own including) and the second make you so desperate to be organic again than you were skin and try to eat flesh withyour non-existent mouth. And their is no cure for both Fourth they don’t plan to do bio-transfer in necrontyr bodies, they are looking for strong and long leaving species, Szeras was interested by the ultramarine body for exemple. Fith about the war in heaven, the Silent king has no other choice to fight next to the C’tan why? Because they were to strong! To give you a little idea about C’tan, one shard can level up a city and two can clean a planet of all life in 1 month, each C’tan was made of COUNTLESS shards. Those things were eating stars like Tic tac! And in the same time you have the old ones and their creations, if you want to continue to exist you have to ally with the C’tan to survive and they knew that. their plan was onc they have won the war to rule on the galaxy and feast on stars, with the necrons too weak to fight all the C’tan now buff by the old ones’s souls. But the C’tan start to want even more power so they start to fight and devour each other, those inner fight made them vulnerable an lower their control over the necrons who take their chances… Sixth yeah it make sense of why he destroy the command program! Just as reminder it’s even worse than slavery! Slavery that awful thing! If you have read all I said before you realize why once the C’tan have been put out of the game he had no reason to mind control his people? He was seeing them not as the weapon they are but as the people they were! It’s because of you than your people are promised to damnation! (Not the chaos one) the least you can do is give back their freedom to those can still be free! And how could he know than the tyranids will come?! Last time he saw the galaxy their was an eldar empire promised to decadance and some scattered kroks army. Nothing hard to deal with. Seventh, okay none of that has convinced you than the new necrons are grim darker(?) Well! Let me introduce you to the DYSPHORAKH! Basically all necrons have the unconscious part of their mind who need to breath, feed and functionnal organs, most of the time they ignore it by focusing on obsession like Trazyn with his galleries. But inevitably this rise up and take over and when it take over it’s not great… Let me describe what it feel like : your fear rise up, you must breath but you can’t! You don’t have any lungs! You are a chocking! And nothing you can do will change that! You feel your non existing brain suffocating, dying, rotting… In fear you try to scream! Scream for help or just of terror it didn’t matter, you can’t because you don’t have a mouth or vocal cords… they have been reduce to ashes billion of years ago… then the reality strike you like a sword in your stomach… you are dead long years ago, burn into a giant oven and what come back from it was a metal puppet… one who will not have the deliverance of death from this hell… Their, I hope you’ll understand my point of view ˆˆ
They keep making the necron talks. It humanize them too much like in Pariah's Nexus. I loved them when they were cold hearted "machines". The more you make a vilain talk the less scary he will become.
@TheNellop no i am sure there are factions that dont like the idea ... btw most of the necrons are too busy in fighting in lore for this to be true. i think its the silent king that wants them all to get biological bodys but he cant control all of them because he destroyed the things that gives the ability to do so .
Imma just put this here: how can 40k be grimdark if GW keep making space marine the good guys? Seriously, look at Titus he defeated a chaos sorcerer with minimum effort, what’s hopeless about this whole deal?
In what world did he defeat imurah effortlessly? He didn't even fought him titus alongside Calgar were struggling against his illusions alone he only won by activating the anti-warp necron device right below him
@XD-sc4ix which is extremely easy, the guy just pull an ex machina. I got nothing against ex machina, but in what point does this story supposed to be “grim dark”? Who sacrificed? Who died heroically? We had a fking dreadnought for f sake! The enforcement came through just the nick of time, Calgar the main MF was here to congrats him personally. Did the thousand son caused any meaningful damage to the imperium? No a whole bunch of nothing, space marine triumphs against the traitors, surprise of the century right there. Hero of helsreach is “grimdark”. Most modern 40k isn’t, it’s just X person meet legendary hero, and they slaughter a bunch of xenos together like the chad they are, while heretics cringing in the in the presence of our righteous imperium.
@kail4997 vallerius died protecting us, most of the cadia regiment died either at the claws of the tyranids or mindfocked by the thousand sons. If you want to go that way then neither was the first space marine game grimdark you know? But you don't see people complaining about it Just because its 40k doesn't mean it needs to be grimdark every and all times even berserk a manganime well-known for his grimdarkness has some wholesome and even goofy moments. The ciaphas Cain novels aren't grimdark too but you don't see people shafting on the stories heck they're one of the most beloved novels of 40k same thing for the infinite and the divine. Space marine 2 isn't most modern 40k stories anyway
@@XD-sc4ix hate to say it but vallierus was quite irrelevant. The thing is space marine 2 is a high profile 40k product rn- it represents what a lot of new fans and the company envisioned the future to be, and it wasn’t grimdark at all. I wasn’t against it or have any strong opinions, but it’s just objectively not “grim” nor “dark”. Everything follow the indonminus crusade was extremely hopeful- new technology, half god beings are back leading the imperium out of the downward spiral, the whole primaris space marine. This isn’t something you expect in a dark hopeless universe trapped in perpetual wars ain’t it? It reads more like space opera. Most of the new novels falls into this category, I’d go as far as to say GW is afraid to put the imperium in a bad light, just so not to turn off the fans. And they claimed 40k is somehow a satire- a satire of nothing more like. They are criticizing nil, instead they showcase the brutality of imperium in a “glorious” light. Both robot gorillaman and his new cyborg best pals are shown to be morally correct, while everyone opposing him are either a traitor or corrupt old men only interested in powers. And don’t get me started on the kriegs. Again I need stated that I have no strong opinion on the subject, after all its GW’s properties not mine. But the the franchise is heading towards a different direction due to market demand, and wasn’t grim dark- there’s a reason old 40k was a very niche hobby, most people simply can’t get into something so horrifically brutal, and to quote a friend of mine who’s new to 40k-“utterly hopeless makes it quite pointless.”
@kail4997 again soo was the first space marine game Okay and? Just because the space marine are back in having non-skimmer grav-vehicles doesn't mean that the guardsmen now have better equipment than they did millennia ago, just because the lion and guilliman are back doesn't mean that the living conditions of hive-worlds, death-worlds etc are gonna improve. Just because you have better space marines doesn't mean that the imperium is now curbstomping through the opposition the tyranids are getting closer and closer to Holy terra, the great rift is still there cutting of the imperium in two, the world eaters led by angron had recently just destroyed a proto-astronomicon its destruction causing an event known as the hate curse which caused nearly everyone in the sector that wasn't a custode or a grey knight (meaning yes not even the duper space marines were immune) to go mad with hatred and kill everyone in sight this combined with the warp travel in the sector becoming even worse than before they activated the proto-astronomicon that the imperium essentially quarantined the whole sector and put kill-on-sight orders for whatever would try to get out of the quarantined sector, the necrons have cut off a whole section of space with the pariah nexus effectively making it unassailable to literally every soul bearing or psychic being in the galaxy has staying too long in it or too close to the Blackstone pylons will literally tear your own soul out of your body, the orks are getting bigger, stronger and meaner than ever before, people are still getting turned into servitors or burned at the stake like they're witches just because, mutants and abhumans are still treated as second-class citizens at best or burned alive at the stake at worst, whole generations of people live and die in dump and dark corners and alleys of imperial warships etc etc etc the only change that it has brought to the imperium at large is that the high-Lords of terra are a bit more competent less likely to pointlessly bicker among themselves and the likelihood of whole words and systems getting doomed simply because of a bureaucratic error is a but less likely and that's it. The death korps of krieg are still the same way they were years ago only difference is the group that likes them memeing the sh*t out of them
In a short story from the 3E or 4E era, there was a short story where some Space Marines chance across some Necron stuff. The moment they see it they immediately fall back and call for heavy reinforcements and an evacuation. Their automatic response to seeing Necrons was that they were woefully incapable of fighting this foe.
Anyway in the novel Indomitus two dozen Primaris(tm) kill over a thousand Necrons in melee and only six of them are even hurt.
Primaris and it's consequences have been a mistake for the 40k lore
It’s interesting how Primaris get one-shotted in even the current cinematics by regular Necrons. Warhammer powerscaling is fickle and inconsistent at best.
i think we are settling down from the indomitus era bullshit marines since the entire squad of space marines (including a captain/luitenant) from the 9th edition trailer have been revealed to have been folded after the trailer ends
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@@joshuafarrington3649 Exactly my point. "Uh...yeah actually, as a retcon, they totally lost after you saw them effortlessly massacring their way through the Newcrons. You know, offscreen. But it totally happened!"
That's a marketing move, not writing, and is entirely incompatible with what we were actually shown. GW's a very big believer in Tell, Don't Show.
And i instantly visualize the intro from Dark Crusadw, where seemingly a decent platoon of Blood Ravens is demolished within seconds by conveniently recently awaken necron tomb
Feels weird saying that 5th edition makes Necrons less grimdark because it 'humanizes' them when the lore ends up having the new-crons not be immune to the grimdark themselves, having their own suffering and potential bitter fate, the natural decay that comes from sleeping for millions of years, the horror of their biotransference being aknowledged that drives those who can still think to insanity, etc etc. Rather than being immune to it because they are just content in killing and murdering and just boiling down to being the second (or third) existential threat to the galaxy at large beside Tyranids (and chaos).
Compared to the Imperium's whole "Sir Girlyman comes back to life with help of a 'not like the other girls' space elf gf, and with help of Mr. Robot Wannabe Crawler after TEN THOUSAND YEARS are able to deploy the Super Duper Marines that are better than the old Normie Marines with all this new designs and concepts for a faction that is supposed to be known for their refusual to create anything new and then the Super Duper Marines boltered all over the chaos and xenos", the robot skeletons being developed to be more than glorified killbots doesn't seem as anti-grimdark as you said.
Also very cool that the example you used for 'bad' retcons is female custodes, a minor retcon that doesn't impact anything about the emperor's super special bodyguards beyond "hey some of them can be female if you want". Nowhere near the whole faction rework that happened with the necrons or even the squats (now known as Leagues of Votann, aka corporate clones that can't escape the shadow of DRG due to a lack of any deeper lore, instead of rogue abhuman bikers with land trains and actual space dwarves). Really letting some bias through there of something more whiney, especally with the Gamza cameo.
Agreed. The only thing I didn't like about the new-crons was turning the c'tans into pokémons although I can see the reasoning why since GW wrote themselves into a corner when they wrote them as realspace's chaos gods and had to find a way to nerf them without taking away their cosmic horror theme and thought that have them shattered and sealed by the necrons was a good idea (whether you think the same or not is up to you personally I don't mind anymore)
@@smithrobloxian921 he didn't mention the cutstodes once tho?
@@bruhmoment2600 He literally does at 13:33
@bruhmoment2600 I did. Its easy to say there could be female custodies when 40k doesn't have cannon any longer.
The whole Horus heresy novels and siege of terra plus the codexes in before 10th all male custodies.....well if we stay consistent with "cannon". But because of the "retcon" it changes completely of the view of the custodies in large and it gives you the idea of, why even bother reading the HH and other books since Games Workshop will change things on a whim and its not the only thing they have changed.
Nice video, the copystrike will hit harder than the new necron lore will.
True.
Old man Gamza strikes again
*I'AM THE ALPHA MALE* 🐺🐺🐺
I think the 5th ed lore writers realised they messed up with removing the "old school kill all organics necrons" by adding the "destroyer plague" which removes their nobles and rulers personas to going back to the 3rd ed necrons and some tomb worlds are controlled solely by Tomb World AI so that is also a throwback to 3rd Ed, and also that orange coloured dynasty that deletes organics.
Also one thing i noticed about the Ctan retcon in 5th, that they had the C'Tan, beings of the pure physical universe with no warp reflection, that are intrinsic to our reality, have the ability to consume souls or warp energy from the necrontyrs discarded forms, that shouldn't be possible, I remember one entry in 3rd ed where a daemon talks to Abbadon iirc about the Ctan consuming the physical forms or biological matter/energy of the Necrontyr and discarding the souls, which flooded into the Warp and were consumed by warp predators on mass. Why they retconned it to have the C'tan consume souls like the Chaos Gods or Daemons could doesn't make sense either.
Probably to limit it like ‘oh, uh yeah… it is literally using our bullets as food, and will probably munch our world… that is what the bugs do we can’t have two factions doing rhe same thing!’
Honestly sun based/energy based beings sounds more interesting and then ‘oh fuck yeah we now have metal bodies we can leave the sun and not starve to death!’ Being the catalyst for the war in heaven sounds so simple and fantastic at the same time.
‘The sun is giving us cancer.’
Releases beings from the cancer sun.
Old Ones: *panic*
@@silent_stalker3687 I found the Ctan eating sun/life energy/radiation far more interesting than eating warp energy/souls as we already had chaos doing that, If the necrons win, the Ctan in the new lore would starve to death because every living creature would loose its soul through the pylon network cutting off the warp for good, while in the old lore the ctan would have no limits to their feasting and not have to worry about warp predators and psykers.
Okay, but on the grimderp bit. Not every single moment every all the time has to be depressing or grim, etc. You need contrast and different moments, otherwise the trope is just cheesy and overdone. For example, genuine romance or a semi happy ending in one story, doesn't change the over all setting in other stories. The moments of good should be rare, but still a thing. Like when the one armed marine beats the destroyer in that animation
Thank you for proving my point.
Back in the day the 3rd edition codex was just something else. Written purely from imperial perspective with the little scrap of information they had about this inknown foe rising from tombs, it set the tone of an ominous, horrific enemy completely devoid of every emotion, making them a complete antithesis to chaos which is raw emotion. Soulless, heartless, often even mindless machines, which clearly was inspired by Terminator and brought forth this very same almost primal fear.
And then they turned into whatever this whole dynasty crap is, completely removing any mystery or aura they had.
I miss 3rd edition Necrons.
I’d argue the newcron lore grants them an air of tragedy and intrigue.
@@clydemarshall8095 For me personally I got enough tragedy out of the imperium as a whole. The whole thing feels like one giant cooking pot of tragedy.
What I miss from the necrons is that feeling of slight unease or terror I got from them. I never got legit scared, but there was something thrilling about the fact that they could not be reasoned with. You either fled from them, baited them into fighting someone else, like the eldar would do or you fought them.
With the 5th edition necrons and the silent king involved suddenly diplomacy is an option. It would be like John Connor in the future going to Skynet's HQ and sitting down to have a talk with it. It would remove some (Certainly not all) the tension if the evil force can be reasoned with.
I prefer the newer necrons as opposed to the old 3rd edition ones. They simply are more entertaining for me while being capable of that horrific grimdark beauty I love. The Twice Dead King showcases exactly why they work better: more interesting characters. The way Oltyx tries to fight off the flayer curse and the depressing showcase of what missing a soul looks like is what makes the modern necrons more enjoyable. It’s a lot like Skaven you have your horrific nightmare fuel science and evil experiments but also have a fucking hilarious character roster. The Infinite and the Divine would never exist under 3rd edition. Keep in mind I was introduced to 40K through the first Dawn of War games so I have a soft spot for my older necrons, but they would reached their narrative limit far too quickly. The old necrons would’ve had the same issues the Tyranids have now with a handful of named characters and almost nothing from their perspective. This is fine for the Tyranids since they are an extragalactic threat with no history in our galaxy, but the Necrons aren’t like that they have a long history with the Eldar and a lot of narrative potential for other factions that simply wouldn’t work if they were still basically robots. As for the reasons why they wish to go back to flesh, read necron stories and you’ll see being a soulless robot with the mind of an organic creature is torture. Oltyx claws at his metallic throat to breathe when he starts to panic. No modern necron can ever make art or music nor engage with art or music in any meaningful way. The only way to prevent the flayer virus is be obsessive towards goals you’ll never accomplish(hence why Trayzn is seemingly immune since he always one artifact away from finishing his museum). They are immortal sure but they lack the very things that make life worth living. The whole reason the silent king hates the nids is because they would doom the Necrons to forever wander dead planets until they inevitably malfunction. Plus they didn’t get rid of the old necrons they simply renamed them the Empire of the Severed and added destroyer cults to other dynasties. They also didn’t sanitize the modern necrons I don’t know where you got that from. Illuminor Szeras literally experiments on still living subject carefully pulling them apart and studying them to see he can master life and death to ascend to godhood. The pariah nexus is terrifying bringing Astartes to their knees before making planetfall. The previously mentioned depth added to the flayer virus is amazing. You’d have to try hard to ignore the terrors of the modern necrons.
I understand preference but the modern necrons are far more interesting than a less interesting chaos gods using robot with little to no personality past DEATH HAS COME FOR YOU. Especially when compared to a faction of soulless people slowly going insane while wielding fragments of their old gods as batteries.
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@@TheNellop Again, another dismissive bad faith response. Why even respond?
Got to disagree. The lore is far more interesting now
I politely disagree
More convoluted? Yes
Interesting? No not really as most of current 40k has and will be
You lost me at "They removed the seriousness completely"
That removed my ability to take you seriously completely.
That removed my ability to take your comment seriously.
This removed my ability to take RUclips Seriously
@@pugaleto9578 damN
Very close to my own opinion as a 3rd ed. Necron fan. Some details go wide but the core of the faction being killed off by the change definitely caused a lot of consternation. As I said to a newer Necron enjoyer "Old 'crons were GOING to win 40k, new 'crons CAN win 40k".
As an Oldcron fan and one introduced to 40K by a mix of Dawn of War and my parents buying me a classic Necron Heavy Destroyer (my very first mini), yes.
Yes, they were just going ti win 40K.
I think there is this thing called "The Narrative" which would be a lot shorter and less entertaining if the most powerful faction in the setting was a united empire that decided to conquer the galaxy and eradicate all life with little capable of opposing. You have some points in that GW seems to be toning down the Grimdark, but you can sell more stuff if that stuff is marketable. Also I think they really wanted Space Tomb Kings.
You just contradicted yourself mixing with entertainment and grimdark which they don't mix together if you don't understand what grimdark is meant to portray.
@@TheNellop If the Necrons were united the setting wouldn't exist, I don't disagree with you in that there have been many changes that aren't really "Grimdark". but this is also a franchise, their decisions are typically profit based (except that femstodes nonsense) the things they do is to drive sales for inordinately priced plastic miniatures. I do understand what grimdark is and we agree things are going kind of baby mode. But I don't entirely think every choice they've made, like "humanizing" Necrons, was a bad decision. Though your point on them being cooler when they were more mysterious and alien is agreeable.
@TheNellop lol it's a game how is entertainment incompatible with grimdark when it's a board game first and the lore is second
@TheNellop Entertainment doesn't mean "It makes you feel good and happy", it means "Something that amuses, pleases, or diverts".
If you didn't find old Necrons entertaining you literally wouldn't have made a clearly passionate video about them.
I personally would have never picked that original Necrons codex for my first army when I got into 4th edition if I didn't find the concept of playing an army of emotionless skeletal robots entertaining.
Comments like this is why you are going to never getting arguments "In Good Faith" because instead of responding to anything the person said in terms of their argument about the Narrative, you make this comment that is literally nonsensical. People do not engage with things unless it entertains them in some way. Could be joy, could be intrigue, could be thrill.
Your comment, as is, implies you don't find/think Grimdark is entertaining which makes me wonder why you would care that 40K got less Grimdark?
@@TheJaranuJanic That's a strawman argument and that's not what I am saying.
Virgin 3rd Ed Necrons: "Oh, we're a species of little bitches who were enslaved by our gods! Woe is me!"
Gigachad 5th Ed Necrons: "Though our souls were taken from us, we shattered and enslaved our gods. We were there when the stars were young and after the last of them dies, we will remain. For we are immortal."
That said, I view the 3rd Ed as laying out the groundwork for what will later become the 5th Ed. They never really had that level of mystery to them from what you've shared but they were pretty cool. 5th just gave them some spice and variety and made them infinitely scarier than before. The fact they not only overthrew their gods but enslaved them already puts them leagues ahead of their 3rd Ed counterpart in terms of "Oh shit!" factor.
Now if only GW could realize just how scary the current Necrons really are.
...Or-
3rd Ed: Creeping menace that inspire an almost existential dread & are widely regarded as the eventual doom of the galaxy; cold & inevitable as death itself...
Vs-
5th Ed: Knock-off tomb kings _IN SPEESS_ who can't get their sh*t together enough to actually conquer anything because they're too busy squabbling amongst themselves...
Uh, yeah... I think I know which iteration I prefer!
@@PeteTheGrouch 🤝
@@PeteTheGrouch So just robot Tyranids?
Sorry mate, Thousand Sons already have taken the role of space Egyptians in my heart. And Pariahs & DoW narrating >>> everything else
spoken like a true mechanicus cultist
They became Tomb Kings...IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!
Fully agree, the Necron was a sleeping dragon, a danger the imperium wasn't capable of handling if they awoken, like the Borg in Star Trek. Cold and emotionless, their awakening would be a march to galactic domination. Now they are underpowered, infighting factions, not mysterious. This is the fate of modern GW, they need to constantly release some new bigger badder threat. They even made the minifigs less cool. I loved the 3rd edition Necrons that came with clear green tubes you put into the gauss rifles, the transparent green was a nice touch. They don't even got that now.
Agree with a lot of what you said but I hated the tubes on the gauss weapons.
5:33 No, that doesn't make more sense.
3rd Edition Necron Codex: "In the shade of Terra, beneath the mountains of mist, there is a new type of death. A sacrifice of men, but the precious souls are not consumed, they are cast adrift. Many are the daemons that wait like carrion to feast on the leavings from this rich table."
C'tan canonically can't eat souls. Changing from that is a retcon that just makes them another kind of daemon.
Wrong
@@TheNellop You got a quote to back that up?
@@TheNellopbro you're an actual manchild
The Titans were the original "gods" in mythology, they were overthrown by the Olympians who were of lesser height and strength. Its possible to overcome a greater foe if you change the nature of the battle. I think there should have been a better narrative explanation for the change.
Sir this is a wendys.
The Titans weren't taller
@@Jakov-or7fpYou can not prove nor disprove that statement.
You’re actually wrong
The codex specifically mentions the deceiver adding the pariah gene into the human gene pool
And then has an entire short story about a blank being enticed by visions into going to a tomb world
(I am an oldcron supporter.)
I have no idea where you got it from but it is not in the 3rd ed codex.
So I think the problem here personally is the nature of Warhammer being a perpetual franchise it really takes the edge off factions like the oldcron and the tyranid since it heavily waters down there grimdark potential because they can't be the unstoppable monsters they would be in any other setting because they have to keep selling you overpriced plastic men and books. It's why I prefer when Warhammer doesn't take it self seriously and is just cool guy punches spikey cool guy while the heavy metal is playing in the background.
There is literally 10000 years from the Heresy to present the explore and sell us new figures with the mediocrity of the replacements for the original creators that they drove off
5th Ed ruleset was imo fun to play because it struck a good balance between being a simple rule-set with a pinch of complexity but became the poster boy of power creep...oh look a new OP flavor of space marines GW wants to sell came out! 🤑
The 5th ed necron codex leaned fully into the power creep aspect of 40k: "here's the latest OP models with freshly made up lore for you to buy!"
Well they still have the destroyer virus if you prefer old-school Necrons.
"Hey, unfathomable immortal Eldridge horror from beyond, put this metal beetle thing on the back of your neck, y'know.. it'll be fun...", "Whut? Yuh okay... *click* Nurrrr you pranked me, bruh."
It would be funny if the device was not actually destroyed and its what the digganobz used to control the necrons
Man I will admit I kinda respectfully disagree but from looking at your replies and how you respond even to people giving their own respectful disagreements and own opinions. I'm kinda wondering if you're actually doing things in good faith.
They are not here for a conversation, they are here to give me that lecture attitude and straw man me to death.
Ill give some examples
Grim dark as I have repeatedly said before its so messy and there is no such thing as hope. But the counter argument is trying to add a little of hope in there but by definition that is not the case.
In this video I talk about specifically using a contrast principle of 3rd and 5th edition codexes. The counter argument is always talking about new books or giving non argument fallacy that are not related to this topic. K why not the old books? I have only found someone vaguely mentioning old books pre 5th edition but it never specified of which ones which in the comments here.
I'm here showing objectively when it comes to grimdark 3rd edition is superior by definition but all I get is opinions of what they like, its better that its not grim dark (even though gw shows it otherwise), ect. ect. Its never objective and its mostly straw man arguments.
Yes! Finally found someone who agrees with my viewpoint on Necrons!
Absolutely loved the 3rd edition lore. The whole "Necrons are barely-sentient beings totally under the thrall of giant Lovecraftian star vampires" was great, it really leaned into the cosmic horror angle.
Since 5th Ed, the Necrons have just become yet another race of boring military aliens, and I hate it. Don't even get me started on the whole "Necrons and Blood Angels BFFs" thing, or how the giant Lovecraftian star vampires got humiliatingly retconned into giant Grimdark Pokemon.
The only good thing to come out of 5th edition Necron lore was Trazyn, because the idea of an ancient being of incredible power who only uses his power to steal unique items across the galaxy because he wants to make the greatest museum ever is hilarious.
Eh, they’re cooler now.
They do not use fridges in their mechanical bodies.
Necrons lore: "Necrontyr lives sucked, so they sacrificed themselves to dark gods, unknowable and indescribably powerful living entities. They were so advanced and powerful that they casually annihilated the entire galaxy, and then enjoyed it so much that they slept to wait for life to regrow so that they could do it again. During this time their science was so advanced that they accurately predicted the movement of every single astronomical body in the entire galaxy for sixty million years into the future without issue, and their technology persisted in perfect working condition. They are the ONLY faction in 40K to have ever actually achieved their full goals. They're playing New Game+. They are the ultimate end state of the setting and hard counter everything that exists. Their technology is so indescribable and unknowable that it appears as magic."
-----------------
Newcrons lore: "Necrontyr lives sucked so they tried to fix it and failed, uh, they left but their lives still sucked because...um, reasons, and then they sucked so much that they all started trying to kill each other in a second massive failure. Then they met the Old Ones, tried to kill them, and sucked so hard that they failed a third time. Then they immediately went into a civil war, failing at life a fourth time. Then they met the Deceiver and became Necrons, but they were very sad about it. Then they mostly beat up the Old Ones, although they had a very difficult time doing so and they were heavily massacred by attempting it.
After this they killed the C'tan, offscreen, with weapons so powerful that they were never used or mentioned again. This resulted in a heavy massacre of what small number of them remained.
After this they fled in terror from the Eldar because they were so beat up. They didn't beat the Eldar before killing the C'tan offscreen because...uh, but well, so then they decided to stop fighting or defending themselves and just sleep their enemies to death. The Eldar then proceeded to blow up most of the tombs that were now not defending themselves whatsoever, resulting in yet another massacre of the Necrons in a tiny period of time. THEN, what handful the Eldar couldn't find entirely failed to predict any astronomical movements whatsoever. Most were destroyed, resulting in a FOURTH massacre of their numbers with zero replenishment, and what teeny-tiny handful remained failed wildly because their tech was far too poor to attempt this.
Now what tiny scant remains of them persist are led by wacky slapstick cartoon characters, and everything they have is crumbling, falling apart, and failing on every level. Their numbers are miniscule, and their technology is so shattered and worthless that the AdMech even casually outclass it on a whim. They require a nonstop flow of liquid coolant to every part of their body or they shut down in seconds. They require constant repairs at all times using physical scarabs and beams and most can't ever actually repair or even really be salvaged at all. If they want to even attempt their hallmark reanimation they require a specific reanimation ship directly overhead their location or it doesn't work and they just perma-die if killed, and this can also fail if they just get punched really hard."
HOWEVER
All of this is a dramatic upgrade, I am assured, because they are precisely what ageless aliens should be: human and relatable.
to be fair, there is some badass factor in newcrons having KILLED THEIR GODS and now using them to power up their stuff instead of just serving them, which is what chaos already does. Still yeah they lost a lot of their mystery, no longer being implacable death machines but instead a collection of geriatrics with varying levels of mental illnesses. It does bring more variety into the faction and more to work with for stories, and also more for players to come up with an interesting background for their own force... but in the process, they went from a nigh unknowable threat to something too close to orks, unsure if it wants to be this unstoppable threat... or just silly and funny instead.
They did not win..the Eldar defeated their super weapons turned dark and terrible gods and terrible cost to their species ( the Eldar )
@@thorveim1174 Sure, I agree with that in principle, but following that logic, Tyranids should have all kinds of individuals with complete individuality. Otherwise they aren't human and relatable enough, and it's impossible for there to be stories about them and it's impossible for players to come up with backgrounds for their own forces.
It's not true, it's just catering to people with a poor imagination who lack the ability to conceptualize the fact that there are people and things different from themselves...AKA Redditors..
@@Ankhtowe its not so much about them being human, and more about them having variety within the faction itself. As for the nid thing, do note that basically nothing is written with them as the protagonists... Fully agree changing them the same way necrons did would kill the faction completely, but yeah they dont lend themselves well to being anything else than the bad guy of the week because once you have talked about nids once, you basically talked about all of them already.
Necrons meanwhile went from all being silent clankers to a race with various factions with differing goals and motives... Some of which possibly acting the exact same way as their 3rd edition counterpart. That does leave far more space for stories to happen that arent a copy/paste of eachother. Now is it worth the sacrifice of what 3rd edition necrons were? I guess thats up to each individual player, but seeing how popular some characters that newcrons allowed to exist are (Trazyn would not be able to exist under 3rd edition lore), its hard to argue it was a completely bad move, especially as oldcrons can still exist within the newcrons. However i will always miss the 3rd ed ones regardless
@@thorveim1174 "Popular = good" is a poor argument though. No one actually likes Trazyn for example, they like the meme version of Trazyn they read about in a comedy book which, by the way, also established that Newcrons can be choked to death. That's a thing that happens in that same book. Far too many people get the entirety of their lore knowledge from memes, which is why the best thing TTS ever did for Warhammer was die. As such, it is very very easy to argue that it was a bad move. Not for the company, but for the integrity of the setting certainly.
There's a reason that "may your hobby hit mainstream audiences" is such a strong curse.
Incidentally, GW has also been peppering several books now with plot hooks that Tyranids are trying to seek out and "infest", to use the Zerg term, individuals. They're definitely planning on making their own Kerrigan counterpart.
Furthermore, Necrons didn't go from an entirely silent clanker race to what they are now. They were that *from a human perspective*. Not from their own, and that's the thing of it. You know they have their own language, their own society, their own structure, and you aren't a part of it. You cannot comprehend it, you will never comprehend it, you will always be inferior to it. The incomprehensibility IS the character. If you (the colloquial "you") need to come down and tell you how you're allowed to behave and imagine then that's your own failing. Your own weakness.
Finally, as far as the Nids being protagonists are concerned, good. The Imperium are the good guys of the setting anyway.
Bringing up the Adeptus Mechanicus, an important distinction between them and the Necrons is that Mechanicus do not have their souls removed/eaten in the process of being augmented. They are still "Alive". Newcrons are spiritually dead, but consciously alive. The desire for organic bodies is clearly a doomed hope of having souls again to have all the things that come with BEING alive that Mechanicus would still have in varying cases/degrees
Bodily Sensations, the abilty to procreate and experience intimacy, they sight of a living person in the mirror, the ability to create; all things Necrons have lost, and the ones that still have any mind left even have nothing to do but pass time. The Necrons didn't just lose their souls. They lost the reasons they even wanted to escape death in the first place. There isn't a Necrontyr society anymore. There isn't a Necrontyr culture anymore. There will never be a new Necrontyr. They are dead. Just instead of their skeletons being mindless, some get to suffer the consequences of the Silent King's foolishness until they find something that can either kill them or save them.
And in a setting like Warhammer, even in modern less Grimdark Warhammer, nobody is going to save them.
The current Necrons would be better if they were trying to get their souls back rather than fleshy bodies. The rebellion would still work if the leaders were Necrons that kept their personalities/more of their souls thus allowing them to not be as controlled or at all.
The warp is anathema to them how would they get their souls back if its been eaten by materialistic beings like the C'tan.
@@TheNellop, in the words of a famous fake moonknight panel "random bullshit go"
@@TheNellopthey could Override other Souls with their own conciousness
@@Jakov-or7fp ?????
Personally I like newcron lore over oldcron lore, but I can appreciate why some liked the old more.
I am a person who got acquainted with the necrons during the 4th edition, the oldcrnos were my main faction and in many ways I agree with the author of the video.The Oldcrons were a truly dark and terrible faction, doomed forever to be slaves of terrible and alien hungry gods because of their hatred and stupidity, wishing to turn people into the same monsters (The Pariahs were only the beginning of humanity's transformation into a new race of slaves to the Ctan),They radiated the atmosphere of how they greatly influenced the galaxy (Influence on the evolution of other species, a huge role in the mythology of many races and factions (Many minor races of xenos were developed precisely thanks to the old lore of necrons, for example, it was thanks to the oldcrons that we learned a lot about the Hruds)).At the same time, and in the context of more modern events, they were quite significant (In the old lore, the necrons were one of the reasons for the appearance of the black legion (It was the Deceiver who helped Abbadon find his sword), as well as it was the necrons who organized the Gothic war), which again worked on the image of a powerful ancient threat, while they were just perfectly presented, ancient machines, every victory over which is a feast and which even such fanatics as the word bearers are afraid of, it's cool.Also, the old lore was just rich in various interesting concepts (the Parties mentioned earlier, arguments about the differences and similarities of order and chaos, and many other things).The Oldcrons also did a great job of portraying aliens, the necrons and k'tan were intelligent and had a personality, but this personality was completely alien and evil.The new ent unfortunately abandoned most of the things that made the oldcrons unique (And also just made a number of very strange and unnecessary changes (I still don't understand why it was necessary to change the wraith, necron bandits are much cooler than just robots)),At the same time, having too humanized the faction, which is why they scare much less, they look mostly like just petty tyrants (Which is much less original, since this is a description of most of the inhabitants of the 40k galaxies),Also, the presentation has become much weaker (For example, in the old lore, even the necrons of war were a serious threat, while now they are mostly B1 from SW),At the same time, the changes were very poorly explained, and there was no place left for the old dragons in the new lore (Old storylines are not being developed, and it is still impossible to play with the dynasty serving Ktan (Copying the Tomb Kings of GW and did not add followers of Nagash in space, one of the most interesting sub-factions of WH FB)),At the same time, I can't help but notice that there were positive moments, I understand why necrons have fans, there were several interesting characters and cool units (I really like the concept of cryptek),but in my opinion, the changes were too radical and unnecessary, most of the new units and concepts, with some refinement, could be implemented in the context of the old lore of necrons (Oldcrons were already aristocrats capable of intrigue (This was mentioned in the code of the 4th edition, as well as in xenology (I strongly advise you to read it to the author of the video, as well as to all who read this comment, a great background book)),there were already necron characters (The First Pariah, the Herald of Storms), who already had personality and were characters, if they wanted to develop the personality of the Necrons, they could do it in the context of the old lore and atmosphere, which would create a much more interesting faction.
I see where you're coming from, but the new lore is much much better, Necrons actually have characters and personalities which the old lore simply didn't really have and "Kill all life" is such a boring motivation for it to be your entire faction's deal. Now we have characters like Trayzn who is an absolutely phenomenal character that simply cannot exist in the old lore. And the politics between the various necron lords like Imotekh and Szarekh is always super interesting to read about. And their desire to return to flesh gives them such a great dynamic the AdMech whenever they cross paths because the AdMech desire to get to where the necrons are and the necrons are always like, "It's not as good as it seems", which is such an interesting dynamic
0:30 I'm calling the Inquisition.
3rd edition necrons were extremely one dimensional. Their lore wasnt so much grim dark as grim boring. like extremely boring.
Your test results came back and it is an F.
Because you think the tyranids aren't one dimensional ? Not every factions needs to have an internal turmoil.
You could argue then we already have the one dimensional kill everything faction old necrons are essentially just metal tyranids atleast with the current ones they fill a niche whether you are a fan or not
@@Thesavagesoulsthere only needs to be one one dimensional all consuming faction, Not two
The only thing the change did, was give the necrons actual character.
tone down the amount of edits bro im getting a headache with all these cutaway gags
Skill issue
Thank you. Always saw them as something alienated from any sort of feelings, silent and turned to a husk, due to the gamble they took when they made a deal with the Devil. Sort of a reminder for the humanity to what can happen if they'll blindly belive the gifts that Chaos can offer. Making them too humanlike, with regrets, desires, or, C'tan forbid, fears removes that remorseless and uncaring fear element that they should emanate.
really like your editing.
Cool video. I don't agree with some points, others I did...thank you for showing the old lore of the Necron's before the retcon... can't seem to find it anywhere online.
Yeah its hard to find some digital copies as GW being GW and not allowing people passing books around to people.
It will require some deep looking if you are doing it solo like how I did.
Unless you're lucky to have some people to share info around.
Or you are rich enough to by the physical people.
Having always found "eldritch horror" to be somewhat ludicrous even at the best of times, I'm not sure which delivers more _schadenfreude:_ Oldcron purists getting their Necrodermis panties in a bunch or Nid-lover meltdowns...🤔
I never got in to necron lore
DamN
Im glad that you are adding memes in intervals, so that my zoomer brain would get a recharge. Keep it up lad!!!
I much prefer the classic Necrons to Matt Wards Retcrons..
However there is literally no.reason we cant have both.
My nitpick is they should have been called C'tan and only called Necrons after. Just adding or subtracting "tyr" just seemed lazy.
Thank you for the video, I totally agree. ❤
Have you read the Infinite and the Divine?
Good Video as always
I own 10 necrons that were given to me a few years back, gotta say im mighty curious going into this one (with some persuasion I might buy more)
Spent 10k army of new necrons rn, no balls.
@@TheNellop damn....
I'm here in the comments before people get angry at you for criticizing modern 40k, o7 Sir Nellop.
6:37 Necron pyramid scheme.
Edit: 9:13 EMOTIONAL DAMAGE
🤝dw I am used to this at this point or else I wouldnt make this type of content in teh first place.
@@TheNellop Aye, Keep on keeping on mah gewd man! 🤝
I dunno Ive seen some of the commentshere and most of them are more respectfully disagreeing and sharing their preferences more than anything.
@fastrunisnotfast 👆 This comment is so naïve that its so adorable to see.
Let's be honest, having two factions that just want to erase all life from the galaxy would be boring. Oldcrons were cool and scary, sure, but newcrons are great. Diversity in motivation and goals makes for a more dynamic and interesting faction to follow in narratives.
And let's not kid ourselves, if necrons remained written as cosmic horror, they would just get their asses handed to them even more often than they do now. Why? Because faceless adversaries are perfect cannon fodder for bolter prawn novels about astartes kicking ass.
Just look at the tyranids, again. When they were introduced they were, to quote a Magos of the Mechanicus "DEATH!!! BY THE MACHINE GOD!!! DEATH!!!" They threatened Ultramar and wiped out the Ultramarines 1st company, most of the chapter and Marneus Calgar got Black Knighted by the Hive Lord. I'll repeat myself. They almost destroyed the Ultramarines, the Poster Boys of the Poster Boys. An inquisitor went insane and started blowing up worlds en masse because he thought it was the only way to stop them, to starve them. And though he was excommunicated, no one ever said he was wrong.
Now look at Tyranids in modern 40K. They are an afterthought at best in most narratives because they don't make for compelling villains or even stories most of the time. Seen one planet get devoured, seen 'em all and they don't change much. Best you can do is show how different factions confront them and get cool battles and action scenes out of them.
Best we've gotten was the devastation of Baal and that was still just a retread of the Tyranid introduction with Blood Angels instead of Ultramarines. It had some cool scenes but sadly you just can't be afraid of Tyranids anymore. Not when them winning 1 campaign, eating 1 world on screen, is an event for the whole community.
Meanwhile Newcrons have easily one of the best and most reccomended Warhammer novels ever published The Infinite and The Divine. I understand why you would be pissed about losing the oldcrons since they are also the ones I first met. But it's the best thing that could happened to them.
Lore in the "forces of" section was standard practice in 4th and 5th edition codexes. I actually liked it, because it was lore to read as a kid
That video made me wanna collect Necron army.
Son of a bitch, ya gooooooood
I wish necrons where just a skynet ai. The design are already a terminator rip off. Just bring back an AI threat like the men of steel.
BORROSCA MENTIONED!!!🗣️🗣️🗣️
Yes
Sometimes it better to let things go.
So, im not going to argue into a brick wall. That would be pointles.
Newcrons are better BECAUSE they aren't grimdark. It makes them far more unique and interesting instead of just hur-dur kill everything.
Also how dare you slander the infinite and the divine
GW will say otherwise even with space marine 2.
Hmmm.....counterpoint, "The Infinite and The Divine" was a REALLY good book.
That's a non argument fallacy
Imagine thinking the necrons we're better when they literally had less personality than the tyranids lmao you're just another tourist who only discovered 40k recently because of space marine 2
40K no longer has that serious Nietzschean existentialist gravitas. I miss the good old grimdark days.........
Missed opportunity to insert courtney gears song, still a good video. Humanizing some alien just means that the writers lack creativity and the ability to think outside the box.
I think I'll go play some Up your Arsenal now
Im gonna be real, I like the new lore better. I prefer them humanized over the boring overdone endless evil kill cause kill for kills sake.
Your welcome, I am the 1000 subscriber
love your videos btw
8:37 because he learned of the existence of tyranids after he broke the device and gave the other necron lords their free will? Him coming back made sense because why would he just abandon his race to annihilation even though he betrayed them before?
Having a plan b or c is better with no plan at all.
Going by their first few books was before 5th, it seemed it was a writing issue.
The tyranids had genestealer cults- the Necrons not so much and couldn’t.
Pre 5th would be perfect counter writing wise and could ironically replace the ‘Lorgar foresaw the Tyranids’
Now if lets say some C’than slept, others battled it out and well… ‘wait that fucker must’ve hit me on purpose!’ You know, basically Beholder paranoia.
This would add in a lot- openinga for Flayers to be made, make the Silent King basically rewrite history and make its own lore- a bit of a escape fantasy with him behind it and the Oz that knows he is a sham.
Then the Oz leaves- finds the Tyranids and is like “okay living as a sham is not so bad i bette- what the fuck has my dream devolved into?!” Now he has to deal with his creations own drama and feuds he organized with C’tan shards (artificial/new born ones he manipulated) and so on.
The souless drones would be the true Necrons, the ones with personalities would be ‘oh yeah okay so my sims were too real and i had way too much hope they would get over the smallest of issues and become stronger’ and then the flayers would be ‘Flesh is gone, C’tan is gone, go get C’tan, go get Flesh, simple as.’
“Reclaim what was lost, Flayed ones- no no i mean reclaim my shards not your flesh… uh, where is the ‘undo order button’ oh this thing… okay okay i’m just gonna go and fix… what are you doing with that thing that can trap me… i’m just going to fix this button it’ll be like a few minutes, your batteries can last thousands of year- hands off… help, help!!!”
Old necrons are borig, deal with it
"Bori-n-g"
You lost
Bro u gotta chill out with the nonstop cutaways
no
Funnily enough, in Pariah Nexus the Necrons are actually undergoing a civil war, there the Storm Lord is going against the Silent King arguing that it’s actually better for them to be robots. And if you still want oldcrons there’s The Severed, a faction of Necrons who got their personalities deleted and now act like mindless alien machines.
Also gotta disagree with you about destroying the device being a stupid decision on the Silent King’s part. I can see why he would do something like that and banish himself from the galaxy to atone for his sins of dooming his entire race. It also makes it more grimdark that the ONE THING he needs to put an end to his civil war with the Storm Lord was destroyed by his own hands right when he needed it most.
And like I said I disagree with your personal definition of grimdark. IMO to be truly grimdark you need a small bit of life and hope to inspire people to push themselves further for a brighter future even if it’s pointless. There’s a reason Hope was a the bottom of Pandora’s box.
You're doing an non argument fallacy where you're justifying a kings job and not having a plan b just in case because of emotion he messed up instead contributing it to his own uses of what he has at his disposal. (its like Im sad so Ill go in my room and never come out attitude)
Then again this not about the character I blame more on the authors writing the character so poorly and it doesn't make him what he is suppose to act like a king. You see you are quoting the new lore, with the storm lord, wouldnt it be wise for the silent king to have the device or another backup and he wouldn't have an civil war issue at all in the first place?
Silient king sounds like hes smart with 300 iq but they are written by 40 iq room temperature authors and didnt do a good job with that.
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Find me a definition that allows hope in the word Grimdark.
If you allow good endings, hopeful moments it takes the value away of what grim dark truly is by definition.
It is better for someone to not escape from a building at all or escape but sacrificing everything including himself (like hes dead inside personality) in a setting.
Its not even an personal opinion it is a fact.
This is from definition of Grim dark and the isolated word Grim and none mention hope at all. (I looked around about dark but it keeps mentioning closed lights but it is meant to relate to dark fantasy genre)
I know we have discussed this before but I am much more entrenched now because I have looked around and see multiple places with consistent definition of grimdark or grim.
Ngl you should join my discord and have more talks about this or more at some point.
@@TheNellop Actual response, glad to see you can do these.
@@TheJaranuJanic
I can do genuine responses the issue is you cannot reason with the unreasonable.
I am talking against a room temperature iq individuals which it is the current 40k community. They are not here for a conversation they are here to lecture people like me with 4 paragraphs and more and thinking I come to their terms.
I did that at first but it became exhausting for every single comment to the point someone pointed out of what their intentions are.
But from what I am seeing at least you are quite new knowing of what I do.
I just troll with some which they take it too seriously and don't get it which that makes it funny or if they are actually have good constructive criticism related to what I actually said in the video like redeyes comment here. I don't mind to have a chat.
But unfortunately its about "winning" for them not having a discussion or debate.
@@TheNellop This is indeed my first video of yours, so when I saw those responses they did come to me as a bad sign. Sorry if I jumped to conclusions, but its the first vid of yours I saw and then the first comments I saw were troll responses.
I remember when the crons were changed. They have slowly become "Orky" since then in my opinion. Not the terrifying personification of slow inevitable death
Because they aren't meant to be anymore. The Tyranids are. Because they will kill everyone.
Nice video!
Oh no, the moment u mentioned female custodes is when your true colors showed. Please return to R/HorusGalaxy and join the other rants about how the good old times were better.
Well personally I really enjoy the necron’s lore, I even prefer a codex full of details about the army and how their abilities work in story.
Of course warhammer is more about a good mix of gameplay and lore, but how the dosage must be done is more subjective than anything. Their is people like you who prefer a simple story and more gamplay and people like me who prefer the lore to the game. Personally I think than GW should make the paper codex focus on the lore, and with in it a flash code who give you access to the current rules of the table top with a printable pdf. So like this everyone is happy.
Also you should give a chance to the new necrons, they are fascinating, maybe try to read the twice dead king if you like grim dark stories, the audio book is amazing! (If a mention of 2 min who implied the existence of a trans character in the second tome doesn’t scare you XD)
I’ll will wrote also a more salty comments to explain you some of your misconceptions about the necrons, but don’t feel force to read it if you don’t want ˆˆ
Also if you like old mindless necrons their is the severed worlds, necrons worlds who have been awaken early by the tomb spirit (the ia who control their basic protocol) to react to an immediate threat, making everyone including the nobles mindless automaton, they just come out to eliminate all life on the planet, even worse, the spirits tomb tend to want more, attacking other tomb worlds and erasing their the personnality of their necrons to grow its own army of mindless machines… and BANG! Old schools necrons baby!
So… you have misenderstood the new necron lore…
First what do you mean it’s less grim dark ?! Now each noble necrons has the full capacity to understand their situation and feel all the pain who come with it, also it allow to have empathy for them, now when a noble fight a chapter master you are afraid because you wnat none of them to die! Because you have follow their journey, their goal, their dream, their struggle… you know than in an other world they could have been allied and even friends… but in 40k one of them has to die… how is it less grim dark than chapter master fight the strongest of the xeno robots?!
Not convincing enough? Their was a tail of one of the scientists who made bio-transfert possible (he wasn’t Szeras), he was doing that to save his wife and kids. But when he send theim in the forge what come back was mindless automaton because the process wasn’t complete, when he was changed into a necrons his loyal services allow him to have body able to kepp his personality and now he has to live with that all his eternal life(?). How is it less grim dark than a mindless automaton?!
Second the necron will never ally completely with the imperium of mankind, even with the blood angels call it a truce would be more accurate, all the fight the necrons have just send the minimum of their forces, using the blood angels as meat shields.
Thirdly the idea of reverse bio transferance is not love by all necrons, some prefer their metal body and will gladly eradicate all biological life. But the majority want to reversers it because it’s horrible ! First the obvious, you can’t eat good food, feel the nice warm of the sun, enjoy games, make love… also you don’t have a soul, which considerably reduces your capacity to create new things or arts. Then depending on the quality of your body you have lost of your personality and become a parody of yourself. And only the silent king had a perfect body able to keep his personality untouched. And the long sleep has damaged most of people minds… despite being imortals they can’t enjoy life
Not enough ? Those necrons are babies for having feelings? Okay let’s see the pratical part of things, necrons are promised to extinction, they can’t make more of themselves (in the new lore). And even if it’s hard a necrons can die for good if you finish them before their transfert in their sarcophagus. But even if they manage to escape their is none problem, even the best of resurrection machines are incapable to completely restore their mind, their is always minor defaults, and the more it happens the more default their mind will have. And most of the resurrection machines are not the best… you have case of basic soldiers (those who had no personalities) become incapable of moving or following orders after having been resurrected too much time. In millions of years the necron’s empire will be only a pale reflection of a pale reflection of a pale reflection of what they were before…
Ho! Also you have the destroyer and flayer virus, the first turn you into a murder machine who want to annihilate all life (their own including) and the second make you so desperate to be organic again than you were skin and try to eat flesh withyour non-existent mouth. And their is no cure for both
Fourth they don’t plan to do bio-transfer in necrontyr bodies, they are looking for strong and long leaving species, Szeras was interested by the ultramarine body for exemple.
Fith about the war in heaven, the Silent king has no other choice to fight next to the C’tan why? Because they were to strong! To give you a little idea about C’tan, one shard can level up a city and two can clean a planet of all life in 1 month, each C’tan was made of COUNTLESS shards. Those things were eating stars like Tic tac! And in the same time you have the old ones and their creations, if you want to continue to exist you have to ally with the C’tan to survive and they knew that. their plan was onc they have won the war to rule on the galaxy and feast on stars, with the necrons too weak to fight all the C’tan now buff by the old ones’s souls. But the C’tan start to want even more power so they start to fight and devour each other, those inner fight made them vulnerable an lower their control over the necrons who take their chances…
Sixth yeah it make sense of why he destroy the command program! Just as reminder it’s even worse than slavery! Slavery that awful thing! If you have read all I said before you realize why once the C’tan have been put out of the game he had no reason to mind control his people? He was seeing them not as the weapon they are but as the people they were! It’s because of you than your people are promised to damnation! (Not the chaos one) the least you can do is give back their freedom to those can still be free! And how could he know than the tyranids will come?! Last time he saw the galaxy their was an eldar empire promised to decadance and some scattered kroks army. Nothing hard to deal with.
Seventh, okay none of that has convinced you than the new necrons are grim darker(?) Well! Let me introduce you to the DYSPHORAKH! Basically all necrons have the unconscious part of their mind who need to breath, feed and functionnal organs, most of the time they ignore it by focusing on obsession like Trazyn with his galleries. But inevitably this rise up and take over and when it take over it’s not great…
Let me describe what it feel like : your fear rise up, you must breath but you can’t! You don’t have any lungs! You are a chocking! And nothing you can do will change that! You feel your non existing brain suffocating, dying, rotting… In fear you try to scream! Scream for help or just of terror it didn’t matter, you can’t because you don’t have a mouth or vocal cords… they have been reduce to ashes billion of years ago… then the reality strike you like a sword in your stomach… you are dead long years ago, burn into a giant oven and what come back from it was a metal puppet… one who will not have the deliverance of death from this hell…
Their, I hope you’ll understand my point of view ˆˆ
Wow that's a lot of words
too bad I am not reading them.
faire, have good day ˆˆ
Good video, last quarter has too much bitching.
Sounds like a skill issue.
L TAKE
L comment
@@TheNellop cry more
They keep making the necron talks. It humanize them too much like in Pariah's Nexus. I loved them when they were cold hearted "machines". The more you make a vilain talk the less scary he will become.
Dammm u Nellop!!
The fallout tv show was never good
This! Thank you
Correct
We need an oldhammer fork to 40k
Necrons were undead. Now they are Soy like everything else in this game.
Bruh
@TETRADECAGONE Too much of Soy tears and the silent king is responsible
9:50 isnt that just one faction of them ?
Its all of them
@TheNellop no i am sure there are factions that dont like the idea ... btw most of the necrons are too busy in fighting in lore for this to be true. i think its the silent king that wants them all to get biological bodys but he cant control all of them because he destroyed the things that gives the ability to do so .
Imma just put this here: how can 40k be grimdark if GW keep making space marine the good guys?
Seriously, look at Titus he defeated a chaos sorcerer with minimum effort, what’s hopeless about this whole deal?
In what world did he defeat imurah effortlessly? He didn't even fought him titus alongside Calgar were struggling against his illusions alone he only won by activating the anti-warp necron device right below him
@XD-sc4ix which is extremely easy, the guy just pull an ex machina.
I got nothing against ex machina, but in what point does this story supposed to be “grim dark”? Who sacrificed? Who died heroically? We had a fking dreadnought for f sake! The enforcement came through just the nick of time, Calgar the main MF was here to congrats him personally. Did the thousand son caused any meaningful damage to the imperium? No a whole bunch of nothing, space marine triumphs against the traitors, surprise of the century right there.
Hero of helsreach is “grimdark”. Most modern 40k isn’t, it’s just X person meet legendary hero, and they slaughter a bunch of xenos together like the chad they are, while heretics cringing in the in the presence of our righteous imperium.
@kail4997 vallerius died protecting us, most of the cadia regiment died either at the claws of the tyranids or mindfocked by the thousand sons. If you want to go that way then neither was the first space marine game grimdark you know? But you don't see people complaining about it Just because its 40k doesn't mean it needs to be grimdark every and all times even berserk a manganime well-known for his grimdarkness has some wholesome and even goofy moments. The ciaphas Cain novels aren't grimdark too but you don't see people shafting on the stories heck they're one of the most beloved novels of 40k same thing for the infinite and the divine.
Space marine 2 isn't most modern 40k stories anyway
@@XD-sc4ix hate to say it but vallierus was quite irrelevant. The thing is space marine 2 is a high profile 40k product rn- it represents what a lot of new fans and the company envisioned the future to be, and it wasn’t grimdark at all. I wasn’t against it or have any strong opinions, but it’s just objectively not “grim” nor “dark”.
Everything follow the indonminus crusade was extremely hopeful- new technology, half god beings are back leading the imperium out of the downward spiral, the whole primaris space marine. This isn’t something you expect in a dark hopeless universe trapped in perpetual wars ain’t it? It reads more like space opera. Most of the new novels falls into this category, I’d go as far as to say GW is afraid to put the imperium in a bad light, just so not to turn off the fans. And they claimed 40k is somehow a satire- a satire of nothing more like. They are criticizing nil, instead they showcase the brutality of imperium in a “glorious” light. Both robot gorillaman and his new cyborg best pals are shown to be morally correct, while everyone opposing him are either a traitor or corrupt old men only interested in powers. And don’t get me started on the kriegs.
Again I need stated that I have no strong opinion on the subject, after all its GW’s properties not mine. But the the franchise is heading towards a different direction due to market demand, and wasn’t grim dark- there’s a reason old 40k was a very niche hobby, most people simply can’t get into something so horrifically brutal, and to quote a friend of mine who’s new to 40k-“utterly hopeless makes it quite pointless.”
@kail4997 again soo was the first space marine game
Okay and? Just because the space marine are back in having non-skimmer grav-vehicles doesn't mean that the guardsmen now have better equipment than they did millennia ago, just because the lion and guilliman are back doesn't mean that the living conditions of hive-worlds, death-worlds etc are gonna improve. Just because you have better space marines doesn't mean that the imperium is now curbstomping through the opposition the tyranids are getting closer and closer to Holy terra, the great rift is still there cutting of the imperium in two, the world eaters led by angron had recently just destroyed a proto-astronomicon its destruction causing an event known as the hate curse which caused nearly everyone in the sector that wasn't a custode or a grey knight (meaning yes not even the duper space marines were immune) to go mad with hatred and kill everyone in sight this combined with the warp travel in the sector becoming even worse than before they activated the proto-astronomicon that the imperium essentially quarantined the whole sector and put kill-on-sight orders for whatever would try to get out of the quarantined sector, the necrons have cut off a whole section of space with the pariah nexus effectively making it unassailable to literally every soul bearing or psychic being in the galaxy has staying too long in it or too close to the Blackstone pylons will literally tear your own soul out of your body, the orks are getting bigger, stronger and meaner than ever before, people are still getting turned into servitors or burned at the stake like they're witches just because, mutants and abhumans are still treated as second-class citizens at best or burned alive at the stake at worst, whole generations of people live and die in dump and dark corners and alleys of imperial warships etc etc etc the only change that it has brought to the imperium at large is that the high-Lords of terra are a bit more competent less likely to pointlessly bicker among themselves and the likelihood of whole words and systems getting doomed simply because of a bureaucratic error is a but less likely and that's it. The death korps of krieg are still the same way they were years ago only difference is the group that likes them memeing the sh*t out of them
14:50 ok what's braosca
@The_13th_to_awaken You dont want to know
@@TheNellop You know damn well saying that on the internet just makes people want to know more
9:35 Random 10 seconds of anti-feminism, nothing female related on screen has anything to do with the video or what they're talking about.
"Female custodes"
Well time to press do not recommend channel.