Audi Quattro 2.0 TDI - Torsen or Haldex? How to see the difference? A6 Q5 Q3 Q2 - test on rollers
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Is there a Haldex in Audi A6 2.0 TDI and Audi Q5 2.0 TDI? Watch the video!
#duszaniespokojna #haldex #torsen
Torsen:
80/S2/RS2
A4/S4/RS4
A5/S5/RS5
A6/S6/RS6
A7/S7/RS7
A8/S8
First Gen Q5
First & Second Gen SQ5
Q7/SQ7
Q8
Haldex:
A1 "333 Edition"/S1
A3/S3/RS3
TT/TTS/TTRS
Q2
Q3/RSQ3
Second Gen R8
Visco:
First Gen R8
quattro Ultra:
A4 b9 allroad
Second Gen Q5
Bevel gear center differential:
Urquattro
crown gear differential:
2010 RS5
RS4 B8
RS6/RS7 4G
Q7
einsfuenfneun You missed crown gear diff. Also new Q5 3.0 TDI has torsen.
duszaniespokojna ups my bad
duszaniespokojna TT has haldex
2009 V8 S5 ?
peteq1972 Torsen and an optional sport differential
I had cars with both systems, here's the deal:
TORSEN:
PRO: it can transfer up to 70% of the torque to the front or rear wheels so it can become RWD biased for driving pleasure. It can also transfer more power to the front if it grips better. Drifting is very similar to an RWD drift, except that it needs less countersteer as the front end can be positioned as the front wheels will also have at least 30% power. Torsens are relatively simple things (even compared to their successor, the crown wheel center diff) that need next to no maintenance (assuming you change your gearbox oil) and it can outlast the car if it sees no constant beating (e.g. towing stuff, drifting on surfaces with a lot of grip etc.). Winter driving and playing on snow makes minimal wear as the wheels will slip well before having to transmit heavy torque.
CON: the 70% means around 1.5X of power is sent to the better gripping wheels. But if the worse wheels have a zero grip, 1.5 X zero is still zero. So the if the ABS/EDS/ESP can't brake out the spinning wheel, Quattro won't be able to deliver enough power to the wheels with grip (especially with rear wheels as most longitunal Audis are nose-heavy).
HALDEX:
PRO: Since the Haldex angle gear is driver from the rotating cage of the front diff in the gearbox, power is always guaranteed to transferred to the rear, regardless of the grip of the front wheels. If the clutch is engaged, 50% of the power is fed to the rear wheels, so getting stuck due to the front wheels seeing zero grip is not an issue on this system. This system is mainly designed for active safety intervention and for preventing the vehicle from stucking on dirt roads, snow, uphill etc. It's a 'civil' system where one needs to get from A to B.
CON: Since the Haldex system is fed from the rotating cage of the front diff, it can't influence the transfer of power on the front wheels, they will deliver power if they get grip. This results in a FWD-like driving experience, so the Haldex can't be brought into a drift by provoking a power transfer to the rear by steering into the corner and flooring it. If the front wheels start to grip, the Haldex car will abort the drift. Factory programming also makes it a non-permanent AWD, so you have to know when you actually don't have it working (it disengages when handbarking, when braking or letting the throttle go so it won't give extra engine brakes on downhils etc.). The haldex is also more sensitive to maintenance, the clutch need its own hydraulic oil on top of the rear diff oil, it also needs a filter to replace every 30000 kms, it has an ECU that can break down etc. A derelicted Haldex will sooner or later will see its clutch pack or pump fail.
Short remarks:
- crown gear center differential is not exactly a successor. It was used beside the torsen for ~3 years and was finally replaced by... torsen.
- drifting with haldex is possible if gearing trickery of diffs is used but probably no civil cars have it (not sure about Cupra as it oversteers nicely).
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I meant the crown gear diff as the successor of torsens of the quattro shown in the video. I prefer its 40/60 RWD bias.Never quattros diconnect the driveshaft just like the Haldex... brrr.
One has to tinker a lot with the Haldex to become fun to drive. I would rather convert it to RWD, like DAP did it, although I'm puzzled why they kept the Haldex diff, only to be perma-locked by an aftermarket Haldex ECU... smh.
@@Blazs120gl Both torsen-quattro cars from the video are newer than the crown diff, they are 40/60 FR. Haldex doesn't disconnect the driveshaft, it just opens the clutch-packs but entire system is rotating all the time. Quattro ultra disconnects the driveshaft.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Yes, you're right my bad. I was looking two videos and I only replied from the phone so I mixed them up. When I write Haldex disconnects, I always mean disengaging the clutch packs in the rear. That might not have been clear front the OP, thanks for pointing out. All my quattro notes go to older quattro systems with 50/50 torsens.. How do they achieve the RWD bias on a torsen?
@@Blazs120gl It's assymetrical. There's different distance between the center point and front and rear gearing
super kanal ;) każdemu mowie ze Haldex 5 daje rade, mam cupre st 380 koni i naprawdę fajnie sobie radzi ;)
Zapraszam na test 🙂
4x4 tests on rollers - duszaniespokojna channel chętnie podstawie auto na wasze testy :)
@@maciejzajac2935 Jeśli masz możliwość, to napisz do nas przez Facebooka 🙂
4x4 tests on rollers - duszaniespokojna channel jestem jedna z tych nielicznych osób które nie maja fb 🤷♂️ zostawcie maila , odezwę :)
Hello . I have a Audi A5 2.0 TDI 190hp Quattro from 2016 ,I dont know what AWD system have and also I want to change the oil in the differentials ( front ,rear ,transfer case ) and I dont know what oil I need and how much capacity
It's torsen CSM. Unfortunately I don't know what oils are recommended by Audi.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thanks a lot for your quick response .But what CSM means? Or with what is different from just torsen system
@@Crash.Testing Basically that's a torsen C but in a lightweight version.
So haldex is better than torsen? When front wheels are on ice all power go back, no wheelspin in front?
Radek Dušička This video isn't telling which system is better, but answering your question - yes, there will be no wheelspin in haldex (IV, V) if front wheels have no traction, all torque will go to the rear (if there is traction).
and 2009 Audi A5 quattro is torsen? i have that car and i would like to know :D
Radek Dušička Yes, it is torsen.
Haldex gets a lot of crap from people but there is a reason it's so widely adapted, overall it's quite good. It may not be best at any one thing, but it's quite good.
Companies mount clutch based AWD systems all the cars they can. Mosts SUVs and almost all crossovers. They do this because thouse systems works well enough on easy offroad conditions, which those cars are made for. Companies have benefits because of less production costs, comparing to center differential based systems. Clutch based awd use little less fuel.
Finally I won't decide which system is safer for every day driving, but i had torsen in Toyota LC I have s-awd now and torsen gives me lot more fun in snow.
Lox Lover I am a trash talker of it but this has me shutting up. Very impressed
Haldex is really good for most people, but for really intense driving Torsen is more reliable and more predictable. There are times when a computer just can't keep up with changing conditions whereas simple, mechanical Torsen does perfectly fine. Overall I like Torsen better, but Haldex is perfectly fine for most applications, and for some, it's even better than Torsen that would just needlessly weigh down the car, bump up the fuel usage and provide little to no benefit over Haldex.
It’s great combined with drive select. My 2016 A3 has about 270 hp to the wheels. When I put it in dynamic mode it locks in a 60/40 rear bias split. My 0-60 mph is mid 4 second range
@@LowerClassClique You mean 60 front and 40 rear all the time?
Why So Much Controversy ? Both Systems Are Great ! From Sofa To The World !
I know and i hear a lot that torsen is the true quattro. What I dont understand after i se your vid is why torsen is better when haldex get out the car quicker from rollers and whithout to much wheel speen. In real life if you catch ice and you go up hill, you will need instant response. I know I miss something, but give me an exemple în real life when torsen is superior, and then I will understand. Thanks and keep doing your great job!
Torsen is better than old haldex systems cause they were kind of unpredictable. But software evolved during last 20 years, nowadays haldex systems are very competitive. It can't be said that torsen or haldex is better, they are very different. Mechanical vs electronically controlled, permanent awd vs proactive awd etc.
Haldex is basically the clutch pack of an automatic transmission, attached to the nose of your rear differential. Top fuel dragsters use a mechanically actuated version of the same mechanism.
You channel, the best !!!
what is the difference between these two systems? and what is haldex?
Nothing wrong with haldex. It can give 50/50 drive between axles when needed, but remains 2wd when not giving better economy. Best of both for realistic tarmac driving.
Retro_Computer_King Agree, there is nothing wrong with Haldex, but only newer ones like IV and V. And actually it can give much more than 50/50, almost to 0/100.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Torsen and Crown gear just tend to be better offroad, in snow, etc. when there is far less traction, or even no traction, at one or more wheels. Obviously, 90% of AWD owners don't or rarely meet these conditions, so Haldex is great for regular tarmac driving and light offroading/rain/snow. I'm not sure why I'm telling you this, since you probably know more about these systems than me, but I feel it may be helpful for someone to understand applications for these different AWD systemsm
Brett Friedrichsen I never heard that crown gear was used in any offroad application. Torsen is also not doing well there because of its torque limitation. But if you mean light offroad (some mud etc.) than both systems will do well, haldex to. And for average onroad user any of those systems will be fine.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I'm not very familiar with crown so I've probably just heard that wrong. Torsen can be decent if the rear diff locks and/or brakes are used for torque vectoring. You can get a Ford Raptor with a front Torsen diff as an option so it can vary traction from side to side in the front. I guess as a center diff though, as I said the axles themselves will have to be able to vary torque, and from front to back with help from braking. So, I guess to edit what I say, the advantage in a Torsen is a mechanical design being aided by computers, which I believe is more robust and superior design to mechanicals controlled by computers for Off-road use.
But anyway, I'm not going to be taking my Forester XT anywhere where I'll need better traction. I have a Jeep WJ with Quadra Drive for that. Talk about a neat 4WD system there. Can send 100% of torque to any wheel regardless of whether other wheels have traction or not. Anyway, I'm rambling aimlessly
Brett Friedrichsen Indeed torsen needs help from electronics to be fully effective.
When it comes to Quadra Drive - does it have three locking differentials or some independent clutches for wheels? Otherwise it can't send 100% of torque to one wheel :-)
Torzen is a differential.
haldex is not a differential!
haldex is a clutch!
So?
Hi! It not easy to know which car have Quattro with Haldex or the "the real" Quattro with Torsen. In recent years, a designation was introduced at Audi, which classifies the type of four-wheel drive: Version with Haldex has the designation "four-wheel drive quattro" (=the haldex is also in the "Ultra" called drive train, here: "Four-wheel drive quattro with ultra-technology"), the 2nd Version with Torsen is named "Permanent four-wheel drive quattro" with self-locking center differential".
Exampels: Audi A4 or Q5 (the current series B9, also B8, also the A4 Allroad B8/B9) -> here all 4 cylinders (TFSI and TDI) have four-wheel drive quattro (Haldex!! called "four-wheel drive quattro"), all 6 cylinders (the 45 and 50 TDI) have the Torsen Quattro ("permanent four-wheel drive quattro").
A1(S1), A3/S3/RS3, Q2, Q3, RS Q3, TT/TTS/TTRS (all versions since producing!!!) have the haldex system.
In principle, all 6 cylinders have the Quattro with Torsen (there are several evolutionary stages of the torsen system!), the 4 and 5 cylinders Quattro with Haldex. "Ultra" is a special special energy-efficient Haldex-System (the most time you drive with 2WD). A realy special thing is the R8, here works a Quattro system with viscous coupling. It's a self locking system with oil, not like torsen, not like haldex.
Differences between VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda all-wheel models with Haldex is solely due to the programming and sensors. I know that Skoda uses half a wheel revolution as sensor value for the four-wheel system, where VW uses a full wheel revolution as a control variable for the 4Motion (Haldex). So while the same four-wheel drive system is installed, but is operated with completely different software. It is exactly the same for the engines, just because 2.0 TDI 150hp is available in every model, it is far from the same.
Hi! Unfortunately there is a lot of mistakes in your comment.
1. Haldex is only in models with transverse mounted engines (so up toA3/Q3) and in 2nd generation of R8.
2. Quattro Ultra is not haldex. Different design, different producer, different operation. Only idea is similar (shifting power from front to back).
3. Models with longitudinal engines may have torsen, crown gear center differential or Quattro Ultra. There is no haldex in any A6 or A5 or A4, no matter what engine there is.
I don't know what sensors VAG is using, but I don't think it is half of a revolution or full revolution - that would mean that they are 20 years behind the competitors.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Very interesting subject and thankyou for doing the tests. Your channel is great!
I have an A4 Allroad B8 2010 170bhp. I've asked Audi directly what system I have and they never got back to me! They did say if it is a Haldex, it doesn't need oil changes, which is the reason I contacted them in the first place. I've used my Allroad off road in pretty muddy conditions with work, and I always turn the ESP off when I do. It's never got stuck, even when others in 4x4 pick-ups have, though a 4x4 is only as good as its tyres when offroad! Can you help confirm what system I actually have, please? I have 185k miles on it and want to make sure I keep it serviced correctly.
Thanks
@@Nigel2222 Thank you! Your car has torsen T-3 center differential. I am preparing a video, kind of Quattro dictionary, should be ready this month.
So, the first two cars were haldex and the a6 and q5 were torsen?
It would have helped alot just to stick a piece of painters Tape with either haldex or torsen on the side of each car. Or at least mention it while the cars were on the rollers.
Yes, Q2 and Q3 have haldex. A6 and Q5 have torsen.
LOL some people actually think the Q5 and A6 are haldex? what is this ignorance, haha thx for the video
jp ch Actually a lot of people think like that, furthermore, they call me the stupid one when I claim there is no haldex...
lol people are weird and stuck in the past, I guess they will find any excuse for Torsen when you can clearly see haldex reacting faster and better :P
In a4b8 3.0tdi is haldex od torsen?
mateusz kluczewski Torsen
Lots of people just don't want to accept the fact that haldex is a very capable awd system. The software programming of Haldex is making it even better. Haldex haters are pissed watching this video. Usually Subaru and Audi fanboys
@Polestar Wes This video is not about "better or worse", but in fact you are right about haldex. I just don't get it what is the connection with Subaru :)
duszaniespokojna Subaru owners are the main ones that trash Haldex. I am not commenting on which is better I said Haldex is a very capable system. My only issue is with Subaru and Audi owners who call Haldex fake AWD.
@@v60polestar88 From my experience (based on this channel) I see that rather owners/fans of wrecks of Audi cars trash haldex. Subaru is using very similar (in principle) system since 1985 and Subaru fans know it quite well.
which is better? Haldex or Torsen?
There is no better one, they are just different.
Torsen is better.
Which cars in the video had haldex?
Amateur Torque Like in description - Q2 and Q3.
duszaniespokojna thanks for clearing that up. It just shows you have to know your drive trains before buying. Interesting video.
Idk what torrent differential you're talking Bout but I know that the rear gears are only gonna work when 1 rear tire is locked up and the other is free wheeling not both rear wheels free wheelin
hi,i wanna buy a used 2018 audi a4 2.0t quattro manual. can you plz tell me manual a4,is it torsen or hardex please? thank you very much
Haldex was never ever used in any A4. It may have torsen or quattro ultra, depends on market (Europe, America?)
Any information on 2020 RAM 1500 with auto 4wd and rear antispin differential runs on Borg- Werner 48-12 transfer case ,
Borg-Verner owns Haldex any information is appreciated .
If you know the transfer case number then what more info is needed? :)
I've just got a 2013 14 audi q3 tdi 184 quattro I live in England mostly rainy thought was a good choice but does it mean 4 x4 drive only activated when needed or is it constant use
Q3 has haldex. It is proactive system with 90/10 initial torque split. Here it is: ruclips.net/video/-vbTOlkErFY/видео.html
A6 c7 2016 2.0tdi 190hp have torsen? Thx
Yes, it has torsen.
Can you please test new sportage and sorento ? Kia claims they fixed their errors in current gen cars.
I will if I only find a volunteer with such cars...
Hope you will find them, also interested in those cars (also it can be tucson or santa fe). Subscribed!
optimist GT Santa Fe was already tested ruclips.net/video/on8siRlcxGU/видео.html
Tucson coming soon!
duszaniespokojna thanks! Missed that video. Just what I need. I think new sportage/sorento will show the same result. Actually it's way better than sportage 3.
what sistem have audi allroad c7 3.0bitdi?
Torsen.
So the A6 C7 tested bere is a 2.0tdi. Could you tell me if my 2017 A6 C7 3.0tdi quattro S-tronic 272hp (europe version) mounts che Torsen of the Haldex, please? I still cant understand which one I have on it🤔🤔
It has torsen. Haldex was never ever used in any A6.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thanks a lot👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I used to believe a mechanical system was the best driving dynamics - now I'm beginning to doubt that and almost believe Haldex is the superior system. Computers have gotten so good at processing wheel slip & can work in conjunction with selectable drive modes/ABS/stability control to react faster than any mechanical system can.
Trades46 Agree. Furthermore, it is not only the point to re-act. Electronics went crazy (like calculating the conditions 200 times per second), these systems can pro-act, that is impossible for mechanical systems.
Fundamentally different systems and pointless roller test.
Clutch systems are only good to improve traction on low grip surfaces and usually low speeds.
You cannot really split torque with clutches. You have three options:
1. Clutch closed - works like locked differential. Fixed speed front/rear whatever conditions under the axles and any torque (0-100%).
2. Clutch open - one axle has 100% torque, fixed speed the other 0% torque and whatever speed.
3. Clutch in between 1 and 2 - you have fixed speed on one axle with whatever torque the surface takes. On the second axle you have some portion of torque from gearbox. If the speed does not match the fixed ratio, you are “burning” clutches. And you have to be burning cluthes, because front axle must have a little faster ratio to be usable in turns. Otherwise front axle would be braking in turns.
Torsen or other central diff. There is one option:
1. You have variable speed on axles allowed. You can have variable torque split, lets say 3:1 by torque sensing. You can have a differential with different basic ratio than 50-50. You have full-time awd.
1a. You can still use brakes to increase torque on slipping wheels thus increasing torque on wheels with grip.
Davorín Škvaridlo I think you missed one thing - these are multiplate clutches, they don't burn. Some of them may be overheated in very hard conditions, but some may handle that without any problems.
Clutch in between 1 and 2 may do everything with the torque while torsen is passive until there is difference in wheel speed.
There are advantage in a mechanical system. One, it is a permanent AWD which means it always works. Two, the system is more predictable as it has a consistent driving behavior.
In an electronic set up like Haldex. It can be good or very very bad. Most car makers program it as a reactive system and switches it off as soon as possible. So what happens is the car would be a 2WD, power on and wheel will slide -> AWD, driver lost confidence and let off throttle, tire starts to grip, back to FWD. This reactive programming is worse than a pure FWD.
By programming it well, so that it is more proactive. driver may not notice the difference. But does not make it superior.
James B I don't know any car maker who nowadays programs such systems as reactive. That's the past.
Now they are proactive, some are great, some are not... Some are permanent, some are not. Imho there is no single reason to power all wheels all the time, with constant torque split.
You conviently showed the only scenario where haldex wins. How often do you actually start moving from a place here one end has no grip and the other end has perfect grip? Torsen wins anywhere but in that extreme
You missed the point of the video. It is not about being better or worse but about torsen and haldex applications in certain models.
When it comes to grip - it doesn't have to be no grip and perfect grip. If the difference exceeds TBR - then torsen has problems and needs help from EDL.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers fair
Someone knows which Haldex generation there is in Q3 2012 Quattro Dsg7 ?
Haldex Gen. 4
I'm afraid I didn't see the notation telling us which vehicles had Haldex and which ones had Torsen ... or was that the point ... that either / both work? ... I do see something working better in some instances and I'd like to have known what ;-)
Description is in the video 🙂 And it is not telling which is better, it is showing that cars like A6 or Q5 with 2.0 TDI engines are equipped with torsen, not haldex as many people say.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thank you! ;-)
TorSen jest lepszy do jazdy dynamicznej. W zakręcie wciskamy gaz i mamy stałe 50/50 w haldexie wciskamy gaz i auto najpierw ryje dziobem do przodu bo jest podsterowne dopiero później załaczy się tył...
Makale Tak działał stary haldex. Nowe odpowiednio ustawą rozdział momentu zanim silnik zdąży wygenerować moc do przyśpieszenia. Torsen 50/50 (T1) w takiej sytuacji wypluje przodem, trochę lepiej zachowa się 40/60 (T3). Tak czy inaczej bardziej podsterownie niż np. Quattro Ultra, podobne do Haldexa.
or more simply if you don t have a roller test like that one. open the hood and look at the engine displacement. transversal mounted engine (that one with gearbox on the left front wheel) are torsen :D
That rule doesn't work since 2016...
Transversely mounted engines have haldex (with one exception). Longitudinal - torsen or ultra.
How about Alfa Romeo Q4 and Lancia Delta Integrale which transvelsal mounted ngnes and have Torsen ? Eh? 😉
@@zepter00 Comment was about Audi cars. Besides Lancia Delta Integrale doesn't have center torsen diff. It has rear torsen diff, center is visco differential.
You know that a torsen diff with one wheel/axle with zero grip it will never move? Torsen with electronics aid it will.
I believe the "brake trick" deliberately pressing the brake down a little at the same time with the accelerator will get you traction ... this is how it's done on a the US military vehicle the Humvee which has Torsen diffs front and rear.
@@habanero8192 This trick with a brake usually doesn't work in modern cars because of brake priority over acceleration pedal. We tried that in old Audi V8 with rear torsen differential - didn't help: ruclips.net/video/R10r396Laho/видео.html
We also tried with a handbrake in Mitsubishi Outlander II - didn't help either: ruclips.net/video/xa2x_M6HmKE/видео.html
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thank you again for the wonderful video, and this excellent response ... I wish you continued success! ;-)
myth busted
id like to see this test done with manual transmissions
Which models?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers :) manual vs auto TT and manual vs auto A4
@@paulhancock855 Depends what generation but there are many tests of TT and A4 on our channel, manual and auto :)
if i got those things under all four wheels how stuck would they be? lol
You can run the test with the rollers under (3) three tires ... otherwise it's kinda moot ;-)
U cant drift with that
of cours if you learn it
I have a 2013 A4 2.0tdi Quattro and I’ve heard I have trosen with constant 60/40 drive... does that mean it always drive the four wheels 60/40?
It always drive four wheels. But 40/60 (front/rear) split is only when all wheels are under the same road conditions.
duszaniespokojna - 4x4 tests on rollers
Aah, sorry if I don’t get it but why don’t the rear just push the car off the rollers or what am missing🙈 sorry im not getting it😂🙈
@@davidtheswedishtechguy I think you have to get some info how differential work and then you will get it :)
duszaniespokojna - 4x4 tests on rollers
Yeah I know😂 I do get it I think but it fucks my brain up 😂
( if the front slips the rear gets all or most power and the opposite if rear slips ) ?
Side note, if I turn off esp do I get 50/50 then if I’m stuck or need more grip?😊
@@davidtheswedishtechguy This should help: torsen.com/works-simple-version-part-1/
Tole je eno sranje od testa... To sploh na cesti ne mores uprizorit razen, ce skocis z prednjimi kolesi cez skarpo 😀
Emir Ribic na snegu? V blatu?
Забавно. Торсен и халдекс ведут себя схоже. А в реале нет.
Можете пояснить в чем разница в реале?
Владимир Кударев если не как у меня двор. То почти одно и то же. Если как у меня,то с халдексом зимой будешь 20минут проезжать вместо 5
@@greg938rus т.е. торсен лучше по бездорожье?
@@Khamzat_Shali принцип вообще разный,плюс разная выносливость и температурные режимы. В сильный мороз недоприводные чудеса страдают сильно+за маслом надо следить,плюс приезжают если часто с проьуксовкой по снегу стартовать очень быстро. Торсен особо мозг не трепет,но вот с системой динамической стабилизации надо возится,из-за чего ценник производства растет. Это как с бмв 1й серии в последнем кузове...
@@greg938rus понятно, спасибо за информации👍
One of the problem multi disk cluth is temperature for long hard work.
Руслан Смирнов Correct, except Subaru.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers may be test alfa romeo 147 Q2 or other front wd car with machanical or electronical differential. Sorry for my english. ;)
Руслан Смирнов If I find any volunteer with such car then I will test it :-)
What Touareg 7P have? Torsen or Haldex?
There is no haldex. It may have torsen (4Motion) or planetary gear center differential with electronically controlled multi-plate clutch (4XMotion).
duszaniespokojna - 4x4 tests on rollers Just read somewhere it has a Torsen Type C. Thanks for reply!
@@motoRA_ Depends on version 🙂
Żenada. Torsen ma samoblokujący się mechanizm różnicowy ale potrzebuje obrotów żeby się wszystko spięło. Pokaż ten Haldex przy ostrzejszej jeździe na śniegu vs Torsen.
keciu1982 Po pierwsze - torsen nigdy się nie blokuje. Po drugie - odpowiednio zaprogramowany haldex (IV, V) może być znacznie skuteczniejszy od torsena, wszystko zależy od software'u. Po trzecie i najważniejsze - nie o zaletach/wadach jest ten film.
Nowe generacje quattro, a zatem Torsena mają samoblokujący się mechanizm różnicowy, proszę poczytać o tym rozwiązaniu. I stały napęd quattro może być znacznie skuteczniejsze od seryjnie produkowanego po pewnych modyfikacjach więc albo rozmawiamy o serii albo o poprawianiu fabryki. Proszę postawić przy tym Haldxie quattro 1 generacji z mechanicznymi blokadami- centralnej oraz mostu i wtedy wstawiać je na rolki.
keciu1982 Tak jak pisałem wcześniej - torsen nigdy się nie blokuje. Stosowany przez Audi samoblokujący się mechanizm różnicowy (czy dyfer koronowy) to nie torsen. A skoro już mowa o Quattro 1 generacji, to po zablokowaniu centralnego dyfra uzyskujemy dokładnie ten sam efekt, co po zablokowaniu (przez komputer) haldexa. Auto świetnie jedzie, ale tylko prosto, skręcać już nie chce. Blokując tylny dyfer jest jeszcze gorzej, bezsensowne rozwiązanie w samochodzie osobowym.
Tuning Audi leży poza kręgiem moich zainteresowań, jakie to modyfikacje stałego napędu można stosować?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers popieram mam auto z torsenem zadnego blokowania przy obrotach nie ma. Gdy przy wymianie kół miałem uniesioną jeden bok kręcąc jednym kołem obracało sie drugie...
xxbass Nie do końca wiem, co masz na myśli z tymi uniesionymi kołami :)
Wszystko fajnie na rolkach. Przy 200-300 koniach wciśnijcie gaz na wyjściu z zakrętu na Torsenie i na Haldexie. Q2/Q3/A1/A3 leci prosto.
Wszystko zależy od oprogramowania. W takiej sytuacji to i z haldexem może się nadsterowność zdarzyć, ale nie o tym jest ten filmik :)
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers oczywiscie , nie raz auto zachowywalo mi nie jak rwd przy wypłączonej trakcji i pełnym bucie...
Łatwiej dojść, które "quattro" po ustawieniu silnika. Wzdłuż torrsen, poprzeczny haldex
Piotr Cieślik Wzdłużne ustawienie silnika to różne rodzaje Quattro, nie tylko torsen.
duszaniespokojna a jakie Audi (lub auto w ogóle) ma dołączany tył sprzęgłem lepkościowym (czy tam Haldexem jak kto woli) przy wzdłużnym montażu silnika.
Merc, BMW czy Nissan to sie zgodzę..... ale przód.
Quattro czy 4 Motion-y to znam tylko podział na montaż wzdłużny (stały) i poprzeczny (part time).
Owszem, można czepić sie Subaru w automatach (4 EAT) gdzie dawano temu byl podział 90%przód /10% tyl (50/50 przy recznym wbiciu 1-go biegu) a teraz jest (w CVT) 60%przód/40%tyl.
Oczywiście 4EAT phase II z VCD czy pewne odmiany silnikowe maja 65%tył/55%przod realizowany przez planetarny dyfer centralny ale..... Audi Quattro z Haldexem i wzdłużnym montażem.....🤔
P.S Meeeeega filmy. Zawsze brakowało mi tego typu testów z tak dużą ilością porownań na raz.
Fajne materiały robi też Car Question ale tam (Kanada) jest sporo aut, które sa u nas niedostępne.
Tak czy siak świetnie, że poświęcasz swój czas i organizujesz te wszystkie samochody aby nagrać "jakies" 2-3 min filmu 😉👍
PSLove Dzięki za docenienie kanału, zapraszam do subskrybowania i do dołączenia do nas na facebook'u :) Wkrótce nowe testy.
Co do wzdłużnego ustawienia silnika i sprzęgła wielotarczowego, to mowa o Quattro Ultra. Sprzęgło znajduje się w tym samym miejscu, co centralny dyfer, chyba nawet obudowa jest taka sama.
Co do Subaru, to ten podział 60/40 przy CVT jest też mocno naciągany....
duszaniespokojna faktycznie. Masz rację =] Ze schematów wynika jak nic, że Ultra ma centralny al'a Haldex..... ehhhhh masakra...... kombinują.
A Subaru to nie wiem jak to tam fyktycznie jest z tym podziałem ale wszystkie testy CVT na rolkach i nie tylko, pokazuja, że faktycznie zachowuje się on blisko tego jakby centralny "dyfer" był zblokowany a opóźnienie startu wynikało bardziej z otwartych dyfrów przód/tył. Jakby nie było napęd Subaru czy taki czy taki jest super :) No dobra......może poza tymi dziwnymi wpadkami z CVT i krawężnikiem oraz ostatnia sytuacja na kanale The Fast Lane Car gdzie nie mogli, mimo wielu prób, wjechać Outback-iem 2018 na górkę majac wykrzyżowane osie po przekątnej :D
Dziwne bo ogólnie masa ludzi w US i AU wybiera XV/Crosstrek i Outback-i z CVT na na wyprawy off road i po zmianie opon na terenowe oraz lifcie strasznie sobie chwala i wjeżdżaja wszędzie. A tu jakieś takie nie jasne wpadki j/w.
Z tym Outback-iem to bylo jeszcze tak, że po fali komentarzy od widzów ponowili próbę z ich sugestiami i wyjechali :)
Dobra.... nie ma co sie rozpisywać tylko subskrybować ;)
Aaa i + za angielskie napisy. Niech kanał nie ogranicza się tylko do PL ;)
PSLove Z wielu recenzji/artykułów, ale i opinii użytkowników wynika, że Ultra prowadzi się lepiej, niż klasyczne, mechaniczne Quattro. Zasada działania jest taka, jak przy haldexach, tyle, że Ultra ma z tyłu drugie sprzęgło, czyli podczas jazdy FWD odpina całkowicie wał napędowy. Podstawą takich napędów jest soft, polecam ten filmik: ruclips.net/video/n4xlTd_hRec/видео.html
Jeśli chodzi o Subaru, to widziałem test FLC - dziwna sprawa, choć ten fail to raczej wina skrzyni, a nie samego S-AWD. Z drugiej strony XV 2018 utknął na trzech rolkach (rosyjskie lub ukraińskie testy), więc coś jest na rzeczy...
A co do podziału momentu w wersjach z CVT - zajrzyj na dyskusję na moim kanale.
Which generation of Haldex does my Audi S3 (facelift 07/2017) have?
Imho it's V.
4x4 tests on rollers - duszaniespokojna channel And if i change the quattro setting in Audi Drive Select (comfort/dynamic). What happens exactly?
@@jansikking1 Unfortunately I don't know the relation between driving modes and haldex setup in S3. I can only guess that in dynamic mode there is much more activity of awd system.
4x4 tests on rollers - duszaniespokojna channel I wonder if it’s permanent AWD in dynamic mode?
@@jansikking1 Many sources say that initial torque split of haldex 5 is 90/10, so it should be always permanent. Try to check readings from awd controller via OBD.
Interesting video! Can you let me know test car was A6 c7 or A6 c8? If it was c7, which quattro system is on 2.0L c8 a6? And also i want to know your opinion on ultra quattro.
This one here is C7. Let me know exact version of C8 that you ask (gearbox, year of production) and I will check. When it comes to Ultra - many opinions say that you can barely feel the difference between it and torsen. Find on RUclips a user called Pashtette, he pushes Ultra to the limits.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thanks for your response! The model that i want to know is a6 c8 2.0L 45tfsi with 7 s tronic mission 2019/2020. I am confused there are no mechanical quattro in new c8 a6.(mechanical quattro only for 3.0l a6?)
@@서성원-p5h Version for Europe or North America? 245hp or 252hp?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers
252 hp with 37.7kg.m. version of North america. Is there any difference between North america Ver and Euroupe Ver. for quattro system ? (Even in same spec?)
@@서성원-p5h Yes, there is difference. 252hp version for NA has Quattro Ultra. 245hp version for Europe has torsen.
Torsen
Jak ty Polak. Sub leci
Haldex est un très bon système complexe.
i n REAL LIFE nobody will notice the difference.... its all for money.. they're both very good.
Idk WTH this is but I love my A6. MMMMMM MMMM
Haldex motion have VW...
its only dry test, try driving in some snow or wet
Ben Wade This video only shows that there is no haldex in Q5 and A6, what many people think, nothing more. Which system is better - that is another issue.
duszaniespokojna a spoko :)
Torsen is better as not only does it work when accelerating, it also works when decelerating which is just as important, especially in snow, high speed cornering when scrubbing speed etc.... which gives that beautifully balanced and secure feeling you cannot get with reactive Haldex or similar passive systems.
New systems based on Haldex can also work when decelerating, it is all up to software. Nowadays advanced clutch-based awd systems are much more active than torsen, which in fact is passive until there is difference in axles/wheels speeds.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Software fails much easily than good hardware.
@@juanete69 Do you prefer computer controlled multi point injection or a carburetor?
If you lift front wheels up with haldex you cant get anywhere torsen is more intelligent and better
Tk Racing Exactly the opposite, you can't go anywhere with torsen if front (or rear) wheels are lifted. But this video is not about it.
nothing "busted".. if you're affraid to drive hard a torsen because of rear bias (as a Man car should be), doesn't mean you should denied his obvious advantages. Wtf torque sent haldex to rear axle?! 15%?.. some 20nm at maximum? That's why is a useless weight but NOT an permanent awd system! Watch haldex in deep snow or mud :)).. haldex can't even do ONE donut! not even on snow! :)))
napraznicul I'm afraid you completely didn't understand what is this video about...
Many people claim that Q5 and A6 have Haldex, I showed that these cars have torsen/crown gear diffs.
When it comes to haldex - I don't know the algorithms, but its limit is 3500 Nm, it can be set for permanent awd, all up to software.
+duszaniespokojna DID YOU run EVER a haldex permanent? no matter the version of it.. any version? Did you EVER run a haldex on rollers (Dyno) to check the aberration that you just wroten above.. about 3500nm? If would be so reliable, WHY are so many broken EVERYWHERE?? Why those are set on s3 to sent only about 100nm to rear? CHECK on dyno before to answer!.. Your comments are full of bullshit pro-haldex.. i think you are garbage-haldex dealer or what?! Or maybe a LIE-AWD vw dealer? don't answer.. it's dangerous for your job.. boss could see and you'll be fired :)))
napraznicul Haldex IV - up to 2700 Nm. Haldex V - up to 3500 Nm. Maybe they are broken everywhere, I don't know, I don't care, not my problem, I don't use them. By the way - check how much they transfer in Veyron or Chiron or Aventador.
My 2013 Golf R has been running for 3 years permanent haldex which is 50/50 drive( with thanks to aftermarket solutions) and not a single days problem. The reason they break is due to idiots that drain the diff oil and fill in the haldex leaving the diff dry because they don't know the units is split.
Dr Donzo So you're saying that you're driving for 3 years with locked Haldex? It's like locked diff, impossible to drive in day-to-day conditions.