From what I understand the lanciabombe mortar the fuse is for the munition, so the fuse is lit, and then the "pipebomb" is klaunched with it's fuse lit and it isn't impact detonated, but that fuse is what detonates it so you want it launched as soon as the fuse is lit
I tried writing a comment about it, but it got cancelled (I guess RUclips disliked me linking sources)... The "Bettica" is supposed to be a "torpedo launcher" (as in bangalore torpedo). It was used in batteries to clean barb-wire and obstacles. To explain how the fuse works is a bit of a headache...there's only one long fuse connecting and igniting the separate charges: the first one is the launch charge, the second one blows up the torpedo.
The Bettica torpedo had two charges. One below used to ignite it. Once that was ignited the torpedo would be propelled into the air and the process would spread through an external piece of rope used as a wick which would enter the second chamber containing the explosive. By that time it usually landed on the obstacles it was meant to clear such as barbed wire and there it would detonate clearing the way for the advance. It was usually shot in clusters right before an assault. You can still find several on the Asiago Plateau, on Mt. Grappa and on the Isonzo front. I had the privilege to handle four of these.
Isonzo designers saw the title and started to watch. Five minutes later: Isonzo designers sweating bullets and making notes furiously for the next major patch.
@@BarBar3ar As a fan of theirs from the beta days of Verdun, they've always had an issue with stiff reloads, and animations in general. This game has some major improvements, (such as the best gun physicality I've seen in any game), but they've not yet shaken off that stiff legacy...
@Marlo Kartel In previous installmemts, they've avoided experimentals, and the Beretta 1918 I highly(!) doubt we'll see, especially since the battles for Isonzo ended in 1917. They did have the T-gewehr and RSC-18 in the 'less serious' deathmatch mode, though. Maybe your guns will show up in the Isonzo equivelant.
I think the thing that sets this series apart where other 'Gun experts review video games' series have failed is that it really does seem like he's having fun. He's not all dour or judgemental, he's like 'yeah that's wrong, it would be right if you did this, but hey'. He's fun to watch, and all his criticisms are respectful.
@@tamlandipper29 yeah run in to that issue so often, if you want to set something in that period it should represent it at least. Otherwise go for some of the mirror world content, there's plenty of cool ideas that don't get much coverage.
He is still a firearms "expert" from a country where only criminals have guns, and a country that has never once designed and built anything of any consequence... Plus he works for the monarchy so inherently cannot be trusted.
3:45 That Madsen has Portuguese markings. "RP" for "Republica Portuguesa", and the coat of arms. Probable just scanned from what they could find, but we didn't get them till the 1930s.
We used them during the Colonial War up to 1975, so I guess the devs got hold of images/one exemplar of it from the last European nation to use the weapon (Portugal) and could not understand what they symbolized.
Yes and oddly enough it is still used as a squad weapon in elite divisions (mainly in Rio de Janeiro region) It was replaced as the main weapon by Minimi, AR-10 and FAL and the newest IMBEL IA2, common police forces stopped using for years, from time to time it is found in the hands of bandits and seized
I love how the expert is not afraid to use the mecanisms in the guns he is showing. It demonstrates how good care and good condition this guns are kept 😁
I mean in our everyday life we are used to using stuff made of plastic but metal stuff, if it's not allowed to rust, can last for decades if not centuries and be almost as good as new. There has been planes crashing in hod dry desert and the metal parts still look brand new, or the old cars in Havana.
I'm quite happy to see all the WWI games that have come out the last few years. Although I was born in the late 1960s, my paternal grandfather was a soldier in WWI, seriously wounded in France before coming back home to Alabama. I never got to meet him but I've always had an affinity for things related to the Great War.
This is my favorite RUclips series. I can't wait for each week's episode and I hope the whole team knows how much I cherish these works. And even when I wait for the new episodes, I simply watch the older ones to pass the time :) cheers!
Same here. Combines my love of history, weapons and war history, and video games in one. And he is a gamer too so he understands the balancing or decisions. Plus we get to see real firearms in their collection in the videos.
Italy did have a ton of prior generation rifles laying around before the war and when it started they hadn't had the time to issue everyone with new rifles. So they grabbed out the old ones, re chambered them to the current cartridge and send them out. This resulted in a ton of funky, odd ball loading systems.
It would be interesting to know where do you take this information from. The standard rifle of the italian army at the outbreak of WW1 was the Carcano 1891 in both long and short versions. Rear echelon troops were armed with the old Vetterli rifle that was modified to use a box magazine and rechambered for the same Carcano 6.5x52 round, so it's quite difficult for me to see the "ton of funky, odd ball loading systems". But, as I said before, may be you have some new undiscovered sources to support your statement.
@@Lowlandlord I suggest you read a bit about that, you'll find out that the isonzo is really the only point in that area where you can attack, so they kept doing it because it was the only possible thing to do
As someone who moved to Leeds a few years ago - I cannot recommend the Royal Armouries enough; it's got five floors of incredible displays from early spears to modern firearms and armour, as well as live performances and competitive jousting tournaments.
I'm surprised that Jonathan didn't point out a fun little feature of the Rast & Gasser revolver that improved its reload time compared to other gate-loading revolvers the was still in use: With the loading gate open, the gun has a mechanism that allows the trigger to rotate the cylinder without actuating the hammer, letting you skip one of the normally clunky steps of reloading a gate-loaded revolver. In practice, this can let an experienced user reload the thing quite rapidly.
18:20 - The fingerprints on the Carcano: You are witnessing the effect of a PBR (Physically-Based Rendering) Pipeline. Older forms of material shading were handled by having a simple colour texture map which handles all details, but with PBR, there are multiple textures that each control a different parameter. There's still a Colour(aka Albedo) map, but now there is also a Normal map which governs the surface angling at a pixel level which is used to deform reflections (to create the effects of small scratches and dents or bumps and grooves), a Metalness map (which allows for a material to crossfade between a traditional eggshell-paint/plastic/diffuse material to a shiny metallic one, and there are also specular maps to govern how shiny a material is. These texture maps allow for a variation of surface rendering parameters at the subpixel level and PBR workflows have become quite commonplace in video games.
I was thinking some of the bumps in the wood and the notches in some of the metal parts could even be done with displacement maps. But I don't know if current game engines can handle those tbh...
Literally my thoughts. That's about the only game where bayonets seem to be fairly realistically done. You run into someone screaming your head off at a dead sprint and impale them brutally through the torso. Not stick them with a pointy bit and they fall down. It's fairly horrific, which is from accounts very true to life when it comes to bayonet fighting.
I would suggest NecroVision, if the game wasn't so old and if it wasn't because half the time you're bayoneting vampires, demons and zombies rather than humans. But the melee combat is merciless, heads are caved in with spades, people look you in the eyes as they die and they freeze as you twist your knive in their guts or cut their throats.
On Jonathan's note on deviations from training in the real modern military (at least in the one I serve in) absolutely troops deviate from training and many find their own slight variations to drills to better suit the individual soldier. On the use of issued kit, many troops use buy, swap, or otherwise (tactically) aquire tons of unissued kit or things a rivet counter might say it "makes so sense" for us to be using so always remember in games and movies soldiers are still people at their core and people love to get gucci kit
Jon great job in mentioning/identifying spigot mortars! Probably still one of if not the easiest way to improvise artillery in many conditions. Although modern conflict zones seem to leave enough functional artillery detritus on the field to make some pretty interesting Toyotas. Re: Fuse/Lanyard. Could it be a punk (could be idiomatic term, it's a wick for lighting fuses)? Igniting a very small fuse affixed to the munition itself? You do light a punk with a lighter, then stow the lighter.
Not sure if anyone wrote it in the comments below but the mortar is known as torpedine Bettica (from the name of the inventor) and it is meant to be used against barbed wire. A precursor of the Bangalore tubes. We still find a lot of exploded Bettica's on our mountains...
At first, I thought Isonzo was just the manufacturer of the guns and the game footage was from the most recent battlefield game. Then i realised that Isonzo was the game and I was honestly so impressed with how it looked that i might just go check it out and see if it could fill the gap in my heart that the Battlefield franchise left.
This was really interesting to watch, really enjoy listening to some info on lesser known and obscure firearms instead of of a reaction video to game with an AK47 or M4 for the 10th time
15:20 Battlefield 1 did bayonet charges absolutely visceral. The first time I actually got one I was horrified that people actually had to resort to that. It brought me a new level respect for what those poor boys had to go through.
Too bad battlefield 1 was a horrid depiction of WW1, especially the multiplayer. The number of prototype automatic weapons that never saw service in the war which people were running around with truly broke the game for me. Isonzo and its predecessors are much better in terms of feeling like you are in The Great War.
The Bettica mortar was designed to destroy barbed wire. The projectile was divided into two compartements separated by an iron plug right where that narrow part is. The smalled rear compartment contained the propellant, the larger compartment contained the main charge. The fuse led into both compartments and was lit by a match or burning cigarette. In about 2-3 seconds it ignited the propelling charge, sending the projectile flying. About 8-9 seconds later the main charge detonated.
While it is dead (come on, 100+ players at high hours is nothing but) it doesn’t really matter. It only takes a semi-full lobby for the game to feel not dead.
I hope you'll do more of this game and it's sister games (Verdun & Tannenberg). I'd especially would like to hear the opinion on some of the game mechanics like how mustard gas, intel airplanes and artillery works in those games.
Anyone spotted that in Villaperosa the top round in each magazine alternates left and right when the magazine empties? It should stay either left or right throughout. It's as if the rounds are spent from the follower end not the action end..
Well spotted, that is definitely an ease of animation thing, so the top most rounds just get turned invisible instead of having the whole stack of cartridges go down by one position
They mention the bayonet attack you did some videos on battlefield one awhile back in that game all forms of melee are pretty brutal. Especially the bayonet charge as it shows you taking the person to the ground with the bayonet though their chest.
Very excited for this game to come out. Maybe Jonathan can review guns from Verdun and Tannenberg next. Also, it's really cool to see a few firearms I actually have in a video for a change.
15:20 *Almost every game does bayoneting like that, funny enough Call of Duty World at War does have dedicated character animations for getting bayoneted and they look really good.
Honestly I think most games have one stab kills to reward the player for getting into melee range. Since stuff like bolt action rifles can't be made as cumbersome as they would be in real life close quarters, bayoneting has to be made more rewarding
8:22 Austro-Hungary compared to Britain was relatively unindustrialized. that was probably done to make the manufacture of scopes cheaper if not quicker. they needed these rifles Bad for the Isonzo front.
Its actually really interesting to see how well they do. Even if they aren't 100% when they get close and try to get close, it makes the effort all the more appreciated.
I mean shoot, nowadays if you're modeling or animating guns for a game you've got to consider the possibility of Jonathan eventually analyzing every minor detail for some 500k people. Pressure is on
The "D" in Madsen is a soft D, or almost silent D. It's an intonation thing in the Danish language :) Source: I am Danish and Madsen is a very common last name here.
Would love to get a look at launchers in the Battlefield games. From the Javelin, to the Schipunov 42. Then there are some other stationary things. Like the TOW's HJ-8, and the Kornet launcher. I would also love to see more Battle pickups. Like the HVM-II, RAWR, then there is the M60 ULT. An M60 with explosive rounds. Finally the most important one. Is to get a reaction to the Icicle...
Battlefield 1 had some pretty good bayonet action, probably because it tied into the execution style kills the melee weapons were able to perform. Can't remember if there were lighter "pokes" but the charge had some real oomph in it.
I was hoping you'd mention the misconception that the Villar Perosa was originally an aircraft gun, when in reality it was designed for ground troops and later adapted to aircraft.
On the villar perosa at 15:40, rounds disapear from the top of the mag instead moving down. It's easy to see if you look at the top most round: it changes side every shot.
According to Wikipedia the Fiat-Revelli 1914 MMG fires at around 400-500rpm, so that seems about perfect in-game if they were going based on that article
The German army deployed the Madsen in 7.92 mm calibre in 1914, arming infantry companies, mountain troops and later storm troopers. And the austro hungarian empire did own Madsen lmgs so pretty sure its accurate 🙂 and Wikipedia does tell me Italy did also buy the Madsen but does not say when .. so dont know if they had it in 1915 ps. I love this kind of videos keep it up 🙂
I think most of their budget was in gameplay and modeling, but some of the jank animations may have been due to a lower animation budget. Could be completely wrong about this, but just a thought.
3:28 It's correct. The fuse is internal and made with white gunpowder which burns something to the like of 27m/second. Madsen machine gun was used by Belgium, I believe, but I don't remember. Anywho, the fuse - the fuse part we see here is like an old times electrical wire insulation made out of very coarse and dense cotton (I think it was cotton). The fuse that burns is inside, and again, is burning at twenty-something-meters per second. I've not googled any of these claims prior to posting, so my numbers could be really off..
Always love seeing Jonathan have to really pick out the nitty gritty details on a game like this, it's always a tell that the game is very lovingly developed by the Devs when he's REALLY trying to find things wrong to talk about. As an aside, I'm still here hoping we get a Killzone series of videos soon! There's some really amazing and fun firearms in that series, particularly the first game that I think Jonathan would like.
Great video. Love seeing old and historical stuff especially world war 1 there's an abundance of ww2 stuff but there's not a lot of stuff on the first world war.
Definitely my favorite era of guns in games. There’s some good stuff on RUclips about the guns (C&Rsenal and Forgotten Weapons) but you hardly see them in more mainstream media.
7:33 The ranging on the sight should start at "6", not "4" as in the game. On my M95, and everyone else that I have seen, it always starts at "6". "6" is short for 600 meters. When you flip the sight up, you should be able to hit something 600 meters away. Another error I notice on the Vetterli 1870/87/15 and the T.S Carbine version of it. The magazine cut-off is on the right side. That means the magazine won't work. It should be on the left side, as on the Vetterli 1870/87.
I do like the added detail in all 3 of these games that others almost always get wrong, and that is that some weapons can't be reloaded without being completely empty. I mean obviously in real life you probably could if you needed to but on most of the rifles with that restriction in game it's not something you'd have wanted to do in the heat of battle.
The big thing about the Steyr Hahn is that it fired a much more powerful 9mm round 9mmx25 or 9mm Steyr which had velocities nearly comparable to modern 10mm Auto 1200fps plus or 9mm Major
Props to the team, they really tried to get everything right, of course you going to miss a few things not having total access to these weapons and deep knowledge of the manual of arms of the time but bravo! Especially the modelling and texturing is very good.
At this point theses videos looks more like an exam for developers who tries to make a realistic shooters, and Johnathan is like that professor that everybody likes.
Others have said this but also want to recommend visiting the Royal Armouries museum. Its very well laid out, free to visit, and Leeds is a nice city to boot!
Did C&Rsenal provide images and sounds for the guns like in Tannenberg? Love that channel. Check ‘em out if you want to know a lot more about the guns here.
The Madsen was used by both the Italians and Austro-Hungarians oddly enough. The Italian themselves even had a few iterations of it but all of time fired the same 6.5mm Carcano rounds. Also, Jonathan failed to mention that the reason why the Verteli-Vitali has such a big caliber of 10.4mm was that it's a black powder round and as of philosophy of that period, due to the inherent lack of extreme velocity power from conventional black powder, anything pre-Balle M (8mm Lebel) which brought in smokeless powder had to have heavy and big rounds in order to bring a person down reliably and thus you could even see old service rifles even before caseless ammunitions being in .50cal and some even had .75 cal "muskets' which were dumb. It wasn't till the 8mm Lebel changed all that to smaller rounds due to the more powerful smokeless powder being able to send smaller rounds down faster and more deadly.
Gamespot : Please upload raw footage of Jonathan's reaction without cuts. I don't care if it is +1hour long, we could appreciate more thorough explanations and ramblings from Him, which I find immensely entertaining PLEASE
@@underthunder529 No, it's design was intended for air combat, why it had an insane RoF. When it quickly became clear that it was out classed in the air they sent it over to the ground forces.
@@bishop9757 I have read about the Villar Perosa. Original documents make no mention of it being designed for aircraft use. Abiel Revelli designed to be used by the Bersaglieri and they originally had shield mounts, which were later changed to bipods. Only a very small number of Villar Perosas were mounted on aircraft and that was because the Perino machine gun failed. These were mounted on tripods and had distinctive anti-aircraft sights.
Another common myth is that the "Beretta M1918" was a submachine gun. This is incorrect. They were semi-automatic carbines and were issued after the MP-18,I was in service.
The front slide of the Berretta actually looks really familiar to the M9 Service Pistol. You could really guess the producer just by looking at it. Really cool!
It was the first Beretta gun with that iconic look, it will be kept throughout several models all the way to the Beretta 92 I suggest to check out the older models in between to see the evolution of design :)
It would be great to see Jonathan review the Xcom EU and Xcom 2 weapons. Especially would be fun to see what he thinks the evolution in the Long war mod... great content, learned a lot. Plus great to see someone out of the US being a weapon expert.
I don't know what others do but when it comes to operating an M95 in isonzo it just seems uncomfortable. I own a real M95 and i prefer to use my middle and pointer finger to pull out the bolt, then I use my upper palm to send it home. It's much more comfortable and quicker.
Oh I would love to see another hunt showdown video. with the bomb lance, the Vertillie Karbiner, and some of the other makeshift melee weapons attached to the weapons.
"This is Jonathan Ferguson" Ah yes, the highlight of my Saturday. Edit: an interesting note BF1 did depict bayonets much more realistic than many games do.
On the villar perosa: you will also note that the mag isn't feeding, they're deleting the round right against the follower every time it goes bang. They could have just let the follower and ammunition all push down and I don't know why they didn't.
About the mountain gun: it's a 7,5 cm Skoda M15. It's quite a small weapon. Although normally you have to have a gun crew, even one man can fire and reload the thing.Considering how small the gun mantlet is, the six man crew seems like overkill. We still have one in working condition in Hungary,but it's obviously under the military's protection.
The six man crew usually doesnt come from field use per se, but more disassembly and transport (mountain guns are typically transported in pieces that fit on pack animals or can be even carried by crewmembers themselves), not to mention that people need to transport the ammo and bring it to the gun.
The 75/13 was still in service in WWII as artillery for the Italian Alpini. Guns got as reparations after the Armistice in 1918 and kept in service - reasonably modern and easy to pack on mules. As far as I know, the crew in Alpini use was 5: gun commander, gunner and loader on the gun, and two ammo handlers behind.
It's part of a series that includes games such as Verdun and Tannenberg that focus on more historical game modes such as attacking and defending hills & trench systems. Verdun lets you play as everyone from the brits, french, germans etc to the belgians, canadians, or other smaller nations. Tannenberg focuses on the eastern front, so russia vs germany and both games are much more realism focused, with rifles killing in 1 shot usually. Super fun but tiny player base, I'm hoping this game catches more of an audience to boost the servers
The British book The German Army Handbook of 1918 has a note on the Madsen in German service, saying the Germans fielded "Musketten" battalions of Madsens, iirc in 1916 or 1917, I think on the western front. It also states these units and stocks of captured(?) Madsens were depleted quickly in the fighting. I'll have to check again to verify the details as I might be wrong about the dates and theatre.
I would like to see Jonathan react to the guns of Warframe. I'd like to see the reaction of Jonathan to some of the Grineer weapons and maybe Tenno or Corpus weapons
Well, for evidence of the madsen on the Italian front, there are several photos of Austrian soldiers with them in the second C&rsenal documentary about the madsen
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From what I understand the lanciabombe mortar the fuse is for the munition, so the fuse is lit, and then the "pipebomb" is klaunched with it's fuse lit and it isn't impact detonated, but that fuse is what detonates it so you want it launched as soon as the fuse is lit
I tried writing a comment about it, but it got cancelled (I guess RUclips disliked me linking sources)...
The "Bettica" is supposed to be a "torpedo launcher" (as in bangalore torpedo). It was used in batteries to clean barb-wire and obstacles.
To explain how the fuse works is a bit of a headache...there's only one long fuse connecting and igniting the separate charges: the first one is the launch charge, the second one blows up the torpedo.
@@n.a.4292 RUclips is terrible nowadays.
The Bettica torpedo had two charges. One below used to ignite it. Once that was ignited the torpedo would be propelled into the air and the process would spread through an external piece of rope used as a wick which would enter the second chamber containing the explosive. By that time it usually landed on the obstacles it was meant to clear such as barbed wire and there it would detonate clearing the way for the advance. It was usually shot in clusters right before an assault. You can still find several on the Asiago Plateau, on Mt. Grappa and on the Isonzo front. I had the privilege to handle four of these.
Was this system Widely used during the war?
@@ianpayad4595 Yeah, there were four main variants, and even a modified one to be used on planes as rudimentary bombs
Isonzo designers saw the title and started to watch.
Five minutes later:
Isonzo designers sweating bullets and making notes furiously for the next major patch.
I came here to say this lol.
It seems like their models are very good but the animations weren't done with the same level of attention to detail / historical accuracy
@@BarBar3ar As a fan of theirs from the beta days of Verdun, they've always had an issue with stiff reloads, and animations in general. This game has some major improvements, (such as the best gun physicality I've seen in any game), but they've not yet shaken off that stiff legacy...
@@BarBar3ar Yeah, their previous games Verdun and Tannenberg all suffers from the same issues regarding weapons
@Marlo Kartel In previous installmemts, they've avoided experimentals, and the Beretta 1918 I highly(!) doubt we'll see, especially since the battles for Isonzo ended in 1917.
They did have the T-gewehr and RSC-18 in the 'less serious' deathmatch mode, though. Maybe your guns will show up in the Isonzo equivelant.
I think the thing that sets this series apart where other 'Gun experts review video games' series have failed is that it really does seem like he's having fun. He's not all dour or judgemental, he's like 'yeah that's wrong, it would be right if you did this, but hey'. He's fun to watch, and all his criticisms are respectful.
Yeah and it's the old sandwich, points out a flaw but also points out bits he really likes.
Not binary, fun no fun. He makes allowances for it being a game. But ultimately if you have no realism then why set a game in reality?
@@tamlandipper29 yeah run in to that issue so often, if you want to set something in that period it should represent it at least. Otherwise go for some of the mirror world content, there's plenty of cool ideas that don't get much coverage.
I like that he clearly likes games and understands sometimes something is wrong for balance reasons.
He is still a firearms "expert" from a country where only criminals have guns, and a country that has never once designed and built anything of any consequence... Plus he works for the monarchy so inherently cannot be trusted.
3:45 That Madsen has Portuguese markings. "RP" for "Republica Portuguesa", and the coat of arms. Probable just scanned from what they could find, but we didn't get them till the 1930s.
PORTUGAL CRL
We used them during the Colonial War up to 1975, so I guess the devs got hold of images/one exemplar of it from the last European nation to use the weapon (Portugal) and could not understand what they symbolized.
The ones used by the Central powers in WWI were smuggled from outside sources, it makes sense in a wierd way
@@auggie8958 Yes, but not from Portugal. They were smuggled from a shipment intended for Bulgaria, most notably.
It's still a period-appropriate variant, thankfully.
It’s crazy how the Madsen was still used until relatively recently in South America. I think it was Brazil who used it for their police.
I believe Brazilian police still use it.
@@halo7oo really? I read somewhere that they were finally phasing them out. But I imagine they’d still be in service to some extent
Well yeah it's South America
Yes and oddly enough it is still used as a squad weapon in elite divisions (mainly in Rio de Janeiro region) It was replaced as the main weapon by Minimi, AR-10 and FAL and the newest IMBEL IA2, common police forces stopped using for years, from time to time it is found in the hands of bandits and seized
Madsen just works. It was a remarkably forward-thinking firearm for the time.
I love how the expert is not afraid to use the mecanisms in the guns he is showing. It demonstrates how good care and good condition this guns are kept 😁
I mean in our everyday life we are used to using stuff made of plastic but metal stuff, if it's not allowed to rust, can last for decades if not centuries and be almost as good as new. There has been planes crashing in hod dry desert and the metal parts still look brand new, or the old cars in Havana.
I mean atleast you know they work
Still, one needs to handle carefully with +100 year old equipment........
I'm sure they're all in a bi-weekly maintenance quota to be treated for rust and lubrication. Tedious labor but I'm sure they love their job.
@@ANASPANremoverandomcrits There is the introduction with a Sten Gun being held.
I'm quite happy to see all the WWI games that have come out the last few years. Although I was born in the late 1960s, my paternal grandfather was a soldier in WWI, seriously wounded in France before coming back home to Alabama. I never got to meet him but I've always had an affinity for things related to the Great War.
Yes
This is my favorite RUclips series. I can't wait for each week's episode and I hope the whole team knows how much I cherish these works. And even when I wait for the new episodes, I simply watch the older ones to pass the time :) cheers!
Same here. Combines my love of history, weapons and war history, and video games in one. And he is a gamer too so he understands the balancing or decisions. Plus we get to see real firearms in their collection in the videos.
Italy did have a ton of prior generation rifles laying around before the war and when it started they hadn't had the time to issue everyone with new rifles. So they grabbed out the old ones, re chambered them to the current cartridge and send them out. This resulted in a ton of funky, odd ball loading systems.
Italian theory to the war was just kinda "Throw more men across the Isonzo, again"
It would be interesting to know where do you take this information from.
The standard rifle of the italian army at the outbreak of WW1 was the Carcano 1891 in both long and short versions. Rear echelon troops were armed with the old Vetterli rifle that was modified to use a box magazine and rechambered for the same Carcano 6.5x52 round, so it's quite difficult for me to see the "ton of funky, odd ball loading systems". But, as I said before, may be you have some new undiscovered sources to support your statement.
@@pentula68 Don't forget those rechambered Vetterli and re-barreled rifles were... explody, putting it lightly.
@@Lowlandlord That was French and English and German as well
@@Lowlandlord I suggest you read a bit about that, you'll find out that the isonzo is really the only point in that area where you can attack, so they kept doing it because it was the only possible thing to do
As someone who moved to Leeds a few years ago - I cannot recommend the Royal Armouries enough; it's got five floors of incredible displays from early spears to modern firearms and armour, as well as live performances and competitive jousting tournaments.
@@daegnaxqelil2733 I'm happy to report it's free to visit. I did so earlier this year and can reccomend the Elephant displays.
@@lynxk7667 thinks can change
Can you meet the man himself? 😯
it looks expensive
I'm surprised that Jonathan didn't point out a fun little feature of the Rast & Gasser revolver that improved its reload time compared to other gate-loading revolvers the was still in use:
With the loading gate open, the gun has a mechanism that allows the trigger to rotate the cylinder without actuating the hammer, letting you skip one of the normally clunky steps of reloading a gate-loaded revolver.
In practice, this can let an experienced user reload the thing quite rapidly.
I didn't know that, but I noticed that the character was pulling the trigger as he ejected the shells. Nice detail and good comment!
There are a couple other gate loaders that did this too, I think the Bodeo revolvers also had that function
That's the Abadie gate loading system. C&Rsenal have some good videos on the feature
Crazy Italians
@@chooseyouhandle As Logan Does said right above you, its the Abadie system. Abadie being that Portuguese revolver.
18:20 - The fingerprints on the Carcano: You are witnessing the effect of a PBR (Physically-Based Rendering) Pipeline. Older forms of material shading were handled by having a simple colour texture map which handles all details, but with PBR, there are multiple textures that each control a different parameter.
There's still a Colour(aka Albedo) map, but now there is also a Normal map which governs the surface angling at a pixel level which is used to deform reflections (to create the effects of small scratches and dents or bumps and grooves), a Metalness map (which allows for a material to crossfade between a traditional eggshell-paint/plastic/diffuse material to a shiny metallic one, and there are also specular maps to govern how shiny a material is.
These texture maps allow for a variation of surface rendering parameters at the subpixel level and PBR workflows have become quite commonplace in video games.
PBR is love, PBR is live and Substance Painter is the work of the gods!
I was thinking some of the bumps in the wood and the notches in some of the metal parts could even be done with displacement maps. But I don't know if current game engines can handle those tbh...
This dude knows his stuff. Very humble also, plays down errors made in game.
yes because our games will be really offended
@@AR15andGOD as long as they get offended not the developers
Battlefield 1’s bayoneting is pretty brutal.
Literally my thoughts. That's about the only game where bayonets seem to be fairly realistically done. You run into someone screaming your head off at a dead sprint and impale them brutally through the torso. Not stick them with a pointy bit and they fall down. It's fairly horrific, which is from accounts very true to life when it comes to bayonet fighting.
@@matthewblackwood9653 it’s better! Not realistic…
@@matthewblackwood9653 war of rights then?
@@matthewblackwood9653 realistic except for usain bolt speed
I would suggest NecroVision, if the game wasn't so old and if it wasn't because half the time you're bayoneting vampires, demons and zombies rather than humans.
But the melee combat is merciless, heads are caved in with spades, people look you in the eyes as they die and they freeze as you twist your knive in their guts or cut their throats.
On Jonathan's note on deviations from training in the real modern military (at least in the one I serve in) absolutely troops deviate from training and many find their own slight variations to drills to better suit the individual soldier.
On the use of issued kit, many troops use buy, swap, or otherwise (tactically) aquire tons of unissued kit or things a rivet counter might say it "makes so sense" for us to be using so always remember in games and movies soldiers are still people at their core and people love to get gucci kit
Jon great job in mentioning/identifying spigot mortars!
Probably still one of if not the easiest way to improvise artillery in many conditions. Although modern conflict zones seem to leave enough functional artillery detritus on the field to make some pretty interesting Toyotas.
Re: Fuse/Lanyard. Could it be a punk (could be idiomatic term, it's a wick for lighting fuses)? Igniting a very small fuse affixed to the munition itself? You do light a punk with a lighter, then stow the lighter.
Not sure if anyone wrote it in the comments below but the mortar is known as torpedine Bettica (from the name of the inventor) and it is meant to be used against barbed wire. A precursor of the Bangalore tubes. We still find a lot of exploded Bettica's on our mountains...
At first, I thought Isonzo was just the manufacturer of the guns and the game footage was from the most recent battlefield game. Then i realised that Isonzo was the game and I was honestly so impressed with how it looked that i might just go check it out and see if it could fill the gap in my heart that the Battlefield franchise left.
I believe it's actually the third game in a series, the first two being Verdun and Tannenberg. They aren't as popular as World War 2 shooters sadly.
This was really interesting to watch, really enjoy listening to some info on lesser known and obscure firearms instead of of a reaction video to game with an AK47 or M4 for the 10th time
15:17 every game has the skewer-a-potato effect with the exception of battlefield 1, which was one of the reasons it was so good
COD WAW had also good animations specially for its time
these games and weapons are the exact reason i watch this series, keep up the great work, would love to see more of these types of games!
As an Austrian firearms collector, seeing the bolt of the M.95 serialized broke my heart! This was only done after the war to refurbished rifles.
Dude you gotta serialize the bolt, it could be taken out and used as a very impractical blunt weapon... Or something.
15:20 Battlefield 1 did bayonet charges absolutely visceral. The first time I actually got one I was horrified that people actually had to resort to that. It brought me a new level respect for what those poor boys had to go through.
Same with BF5
Other melee attacks were visceral as well in BF1. Especially the sound of club strikes on heads.
Too bad battlefield 1 was a horrid depiction of WW1, especially the multiplayer. The number of prototype automatic weapons that never saw service in the war which people were running around with truly broke the game for me. Isonzo and its predecessors are much better in terms of feeling like you are in The Great War.
The Bettica mortar was designed to destroy barbed wire. The projectile was divided into two compartements separated by an iron plug right where that narrow part is. The smalled rear compartment contained the propellant, the larger compartment contained the main charge. The fuse led into both compartments and was lit by a match or burning cigarette. In about 2-3 seconds it ignited the propelling charge, sending the projectile flying. About 8-9 seconds later the main charge detonated.
Im really looking forward to Isonzo, Verdun is still awesome for some quick games.
dead game
@@jmgonzales7701 149 people in game at the moment and it has bot support. So you can fill a lobby.
@@jmgonzales7701 go back to Twitter
While it is dead (come on, 100+ players at high hours is nothing but) it doesn’t really matter. It only takes a semi-full lobby for the game to feel not dead.
Xbox has like 14 average, however the bots are good enough that the game doesn't feel dead and i still pop in for games regularly
I hope you'll do more of this game and it's sister games (Verdun & Tannenberg). I'd especially would like to hear the opinion on some of the game mechanics like how mustard gas, intel airplanes and artillery works in those games.
Would he be knowledgeable on poison gas though?
Hopefully it would breathe some new life into Verdun
Anyone spotted that in Villaperosa the top round in each magazine alternates left and right when the magazine empties?
It should stay either left or right throughout.
It's as if the rounds are spent from the follower end not the action end..
That is a very good catch.
Well spotted, that is definitely an ease of animation thing, so the top most rounds just get turned invisible instead of having the whole stack of cartridges go down by one position
They mention the bayonet attack you did some videos on battlefield one awhile back in that game all forms of melee are pretty brutal. Especially the bayonet charge as it shows you taking the person to the ground with the bayonet though their chest.
Or the stomach if you come from the front
An episode in rare form, loved it. Great to see a reality-based game which shows off real weapons that don’t show up in games.
Very excited for this game to come out. Maybe Jonathan can review guns from Verdun and Tannenberg next. Also, it's really cool to see a few firearms I actually have in a video for a change.
15:20 *Almost every game does bayoneting like that, funny enough Call of Duty World at War does have dedicated character animations for getting bayoneted and they look really good.
Honestly I think most games have one stab kills to reward the player for getting into melee range. Since stuff like bolt action rifles can't be made as cumbersome as they would be in real life close quarters, bayoneting has to be made more rewarding
8:22 Austro-Hungary compared to Britain was relatively unindustrialized. that was probably done to make the manufacture of scopes cheaper if not quicker. they needed these rifles Bad for the Isonzo front.
The World War 1 game series has always had impressive models since the very first game.
What are you talking about? This isn't Battlefield... it's Isonzo. It's a totally different game "series". It's just set in WW1.
@@NateTheScot Isonzo is the third game in the World War 1 Game Series, the other two games being Verdun and Tannenberg.
@@NateTheScot why do you talk about something you obviously don't know much or anything about?
@@NateTheScot I- Yeah? Verdun, Tannenberg, and Isonzo are from the "WWI Game Series"
Its actually really interesting to see how well they do. Even if they aren't 100% when they get close and try to get close, it makes the effort all the more appreciated.
I mean shoot, nowadays if you're modeling or animating guns for a game you've got to consider the possibility of Jonathan eventually analyzing every minor detail for some 500k people. Pressure is on
The "D" in Madsen is a soft D, or almost silent D. It's an intonation thing in the Danish language :)
Source: I am Danish and Madsen is a very common last name here.
Most English speakers struggle to wrap their tongue around a soft Danish D.
"Mahsen" is probably the best way to explain it lol
@@latewizard301
Madsen sounds catchier tho
@@ErwinPommel phrasing
@@ErwinPommel Brilliant
Would love to get a look at launchers in the Battlefield games. From the Javelin, to the Schipunov 42. Then there are some other stationary things. Like the TOW's HJ-8, and the Kornet launcher. I would also love to see more Battle pickups. Like the HVM-II, RAWR, then there is the M60 ULT. An M60 with explosive rounds. Finally the most important one. Is to get a reaction to the Icicle...
Battlefield 1 had some pretty good bayonet action, probably because it tied into the execution style kills the melee weapons were able to perform. Can't remember if there were lighter "pokes" but the charge had some real oomph in it.
The problem was the charge was the only way to use it. Making it useful in open ground but not close quarters, which is opposite of how it was IRL
As the owner of a 1942 production Carcano rifle, it's nice to see the M91 in a game.
I was hoping you'd mention the misconception that the Villar Perosa was originally an aircraft gun, when in reality it was designed for ground troops and later adapted to aircraft.
On the villar perosa at 15:40, rounds disapear from the top of the mag instead moving down. It's easy to see if you look at the top most round: it changes side every shot.
According to Wikipedia the Fiat-Revelli 1914 MMG fires at around 400-500rpm, so that seems about perfect in-game if they were going based on that article
The German army deployed the Madsen in 7.92 mm calibre in 1914, arming infantry companies, mountain troops and later storm troopers. And the austro hungarian empire did own Madsen lmgs so pretty sure its accurate 🙂 and Wikipedia does tell me Italy did also buy the Madsen but does not say when .. so dont know if they had it in 1915 ps. I love this kind of videos keep it up 🙂
I think most of their budget was in gameplay and modeling, but some of the jank animations may have been due to a lower animation budget. Could be completely wrong about this, but just a thought.
3:28
It's correct. The fuse is internal and made with white gunpowder which burns something to the like of 27m/second.
Madsen machine gun was used by Belgium, I believe, but I don't remember.
Anywho, the fuse - the fuse part we see here is like an old times electrical wire insulation made out of very coarse and dense cotton (I think it was cotton). The fuse that burns is inside, and again, is burning at twenty-something-meters per second.
I've not googled any of these claims prior to posting, so my numbers could be really off..
Always love seeing Jonathan have to really pick out the nitty gritty details on a game like this, it's always a tell that the game is very lovingly developed by the Devs when he's REALLY trying to find things wrong to talk about.
As an aside, I'm still here hoping we get a Killzone series of videos soon! There's some really amazing and fun firearms in that series, particularly the first game that I think Jonathan would like.
11:34 what a great insight! this can be applied to a great deal of things.
Great video. Love seeing old and historical stuff especially world war 1 there's an abundance of ww2 stuff but there's not a lot of stuff on the first world war.
Definitely my favorite era of guns in games. There’s some good stuff on RUclips about the guns (C&Rsenal and Forgotten Weapons) but you hardly see them in more mainstream media.
Pre order the game then! 🙂
Bolt actions don't make you feel cool like using a semi automatic gun or an automatic one.
@@danieldeluna9661 what if he has Steam or Epic or a PlayStation?
7:33 The ranging on the sight should start at "6", not "4" as in the game. On my M95, and everyone else that I have seen, it always starts at "6". "6" is short for 600 meters. When you flip the sight up, you should be able to hit something 600 meters away.
Another error I notice on the Vetterli 1870/87/15 and the T.S Carbine version of it. The magazine cut-off is on the right side. That means the magazine won't work. It should be on the left side, as on the Vetterli 1870/87.
Man pulled out a tiny carcano and refused to elaborate further
I do like the added detail in all 3 of these games that others almost always get wrong, and that is that some weapons can't be reloaded without being completely empty. I mean obviously in real life you probably could if you needed to but on most of the rifles with that restriction in game it's not something you'd have wanted to do in the heat of battle.
The big thing about the Steyr Hahn is that it fired a much more powerful 9mm round 9mmx25 or 9mm Steyr which had velocities nearly comparable to modern 10mm Auto 1200fps plus or 9mm Major
No it didn't, It fired 9x23 Steyr which is longer but weaker than 9mm Parabellum.
Props to the team, they really tried to get everything right, of course you going to miss a few things not having total access to these weapons and deep knowledge of the manual of arms of the time but bravo! Especially the modelling and texturing is very good.
At this point theses videos looks more like an exam for developers who tries to make a realistic shooters, and Johnathan is like that professor that everybody likes.
Others have said this but also want to recommend visiting the Royal Armouries museum. Its very well laid out, free to visit, and Leeds is a nice city to boot!
I have the deluxe edition pre-ordered and I am psyched for the release.
When Johnathan is nitpicking, you know the devs have done a good job👏👏👏
Jonathan with the tiny carcano is immaculate, I hope someone makes it into fan art 😂
Hmm yes, indeed scrumptious.
This video was incredibly informative. I love it
"Im not an artillery expert despite my job title"
We've been tricked, we've been backstabbed and we've been quite possibly, bamboozled.
The artillery expert is a big deaf bloke.
I love it when it's just a tiny little detail that's is off, like this font on the side of Beretta pistol
Because it means the rest is good.
Did C&Rsenal provide images and sounds for the guns like in Tannenberg? Love that channel. Check ‘em out if you want to know a lot more about the guns here.
C&Rsenal are friends of us yes!
@@WW1GameSeries very pog, pretty excited for isonzo
The Madsen was used by both the Italians and Austro-Hungarians oddly enough. The Italian themselves even had a few iterations of it but all of time fired the same 6.5mm Carcano rounds.
Also, Jonathan failed to mention that the reason why the Verteli-Vitali has such a big caliber of 10.4mm was that it's a black powder round and as of philosophy of that period, due to the inherent lack of extreme velocity power from conventional black powder, anything pre-Balle M (8mm Lebel) which brought in smokeless powder had to have heavy and big rounds in order to bring a person down reliably and thus you could even see old service rifles even before caseless ammunitions being in .50cal and some even had .75 cal "muskets' which were dumb. It wasn't till the 8mm Lebel changed all that to smaller rounds due to the more powerful smokeless powder being able to send smaller rounds down faster and more deadly.
5:54 This must be the fully semi automatic rifle the media be talking about
Gamespot : Please upload raw footage of Jonathan's reaction without cuts.
I don't care if it is +1hour long, we could appreciate more thorough explanations and ramblings from Him, which I find immensely entertaining
PLEASE
Love your relentless honesty!
lol finally we can have SEMI FULL AUTOMATIC! But seriously, that magazine looks like something from a steam punk game, its crazy it actually existed.
That vivisectioned Carcano is one of the coolest things Jonathan has ever shown us.
i love how theres a gun thats literally just 2 guns stapled together
in a pistol calibre and intended for shooting down planes....sure lol
@@bishop9757 It's not for shooting down airplanes. It was made as an LMG for assault troops, they only mounted them on planes out of desperation.
@@underthunder529 No, it's design was intended for air combat, why it had an insane RoF. When it quickly became clear that it was out classed in the air they sent it over to the ground forces.
@@bishop9757 I have read about the Villar Perosa. Original documents make no mention of it being designed for aircraft use. Abiel Revelli designed to be used by the Bersaglieri and they originally had shield mounts, which were later changed to bipods.
Only a very small number of Villar Perosas were mounted on aircraft and that was because the Perino machine gun failed. These were mounted on tripods and had distinctive anti-aircraft sights.
Another common myth is that the "Beretta M1918" was a submachine gun. This is incorrect. They were semi-automatic carbines and were issued after the MP-18,I was in service.
I loved Verdun and Tannenburg, They were like Battlefield but with historical accurate fighting. Cant wait for this game!
Nothing like going over the top then being mowed down by a German
The developers just changed the Fiat Rivelli based on the feedback Johnathon gave about the reload animation.
Really? Thats cool
Also, they changed the Beretta reload animation. Now the soldier takes the back of the gun, instead of the full barrel
The front slide of the Berretta actually looks really familiar to the M9 Service Pistol.
You could really guess the producer just by looking at it. Really cool!
It was the first Beretta gun with that iconic look, it will be kept throughout several models all the way to the Beretta 92
I suggest to check out the older models in between to see the evolution of design :)
A revisit to Hunt: Showdown would be cool considering they've added more guns.
Be nice to get Wolfenstein before revisiting stuff already covered.
Yeah hunt and metal gear solid 3
HOOOOOOOOONT!
It would be great to see Jonathan review the Xcom EU and Xcom 2 weapons. Especially would be fun to see what he thinks the evolution in the Long war mod... great content, learned a lot. Plus great to see someone out of the US being a weapon expert.
Niceeee, Excited for the game
Thanks!
@@WW1GameSeries oh no you’ve already watched the video, better get back to it boys! 👀😂
I don't know what others do but when it comes to operating an M95 in isonzo it just seems uncomfortable. I own a real M95 and i prefer to use my middle and pointer finger to pull out the bolt, then I use my upper palm to send it home. It's much more comfortable and quicker.
Oh I would love to see another hunt showdown video. with the bomb lance, the Vertillie Karbiner, and some of the other makeshift melee weapons attached to the weapons.
Yes please, and metal gear solid 3
"I'm not an Artillery expert despite my title" Crying myself to sleep tonight.
I'd love to see Jonathan react to the guns from the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series...
Same, lot of different AKs and even some particular NATO stuff
Wow those weapon models are insanely detailed, amazing work
With the amount of times he's mentioned it in previous videos I'd love to see some Gears of War weapons
"Luckily we do have an authentic Lancer here at Royal Armouries - you may notice the chainsaw bayonet is a bit smaller than the depiction in game."
4:42 Brazillian Rio de Janeiro's military police uses the madsen exactly like this
"This is Jonathan Ferguson"
Ah yes, the highlight of my Saturday.
Edit: an interesting note BF1 did depict bayonets much more realistic than many games do.
Something about the metallic crunch of the firing noises is so satisfying
Isnt BF1s bayonetting kinda accurate?
No not really
On the villar perosa: you will also note that the mag isn't feeding, they're deleting the round right against the follower every time it goes bang. They could have just let the follower and ammunition all push down and I don't know why they didn't.
About the mountain gun: it's a 7,5 cm Skoda M15. It's quite a small weapon. Although normally you have to have a gun crew, even one man can fire and reload the thing.Considering how small the gun mantlet is, the six man crew seems like overkill. We still have one in working condition in Hungary,but it's obviously under the military's protection.
The six man crew usually doesnt come from field use per se, but more disassembly and transport (mountain guns are typically transported in pieces that fit on pack animals or can be even carried by crewmembers themselves), not to mention that people need to transport the ammo and bring it to the gun.
The 75/13 was still in service in WWII as artillery for the Italian Alpini. Guns got as reparations after the Armistice in 1918 and kept in service - reasonably modern and easy to pack on mules.
As far as I know, the crew in Alpini use was 5: gun commander, gunner and loader on the gun, and two ammo handlers behind.
This is Jonathan Ferguson, the keeper of my heart. ❤
Someone needs to show him the bayonet charges from Battlefield 1
Bayonetting in BF1 is very brutal, esp when it goes into and out the neck
I would like to see Jonathan react to weapons from the PS1 Resident evil trilogy and their remakes
This is Jonathan Ferguson and once again you get a like from me.
This game just looks like a more refined battlefield 1
It's part of a series that includes games such as Verdun and Tannenberg that focus on more historical game modes such as attacking and defending hills & trench systems. Verdun lets you play as everyone from the brits, french, germans etc to the belgians, canadians, or other smaller nations. Tannenberg focuses on the eastern front, so russia vs germany and both games are much more realism focused, with rifles killing in 1 shot usually. Super fun but tiny player base, I'm hoping this game catches more of an audience to boost the servers
Buy it 😩
The British book The German Army Handbook of 1918 has a note on the Madsen in German service, saying the Germans fielded "Musketten" battalions of Madsens, iirc in 1916 or 1917, I think on the western front. It also states these units and stocks of captured(?) Madsens were depleted quickly in the fighting. I'll have to check again to verify the details as I might be wrong about the dates and theatre.
Dang. I got here pretty early this time.
I have owned a Steyr 1912 for many years. Its one of my favorite old world weapons to shoot.
I would like to see Jonathan react to the guns of Warframe. I'd like to see the reaction of Jonathan to some of the Grineer weapons and maybe Tenno or Corpus weapons
They're super high tech, so I'm not sure how that would work
@@kylesnake7297 he has reacted to the weapons of Destiny 2, its weapons are super high tech too, i don't see what the problem is
Just have to select the quasi-realistic ones, rather than the "collection of Scifi tubes" ones.
@@under-chonker oh I didn't know that
That agressive cocking of the bolt at 8:50. My goodness that was fast.
Do SAO Fatal Bullet and COD Advanced Warfare
FINALLY, HUZZA!!!!! Now do the rest of the series, please
Well, for evidence of the madsen on the Italian front, there are several photos of Austrian soldiers with them in the second C&rsenal documentary about the madsen