I don't know if you know, but queen Marika from elden ring turned to stone after a long time of being trapped within a big magical tree that gathers souls with its roots and there is no in game lore explanation
I’m actually half way through an Elden ring script and have this very thing in mind! It’s one of my favourite games of all time, and the Empyreon/Greenseer parallels are very strong, keep an eye out in the next month for it!
@@ScadrianGhostbloodIve been looking into why she turned to stone, and perhaps you might be able to help out It seems Marika was a Numen, who share a common ancestry with the Nox, who come from outside the Lands Between And we also know the Onyx Lords and Alabaster Lords, who have skin of stone, come from outside the Lands between as well Is there connection there you think? Maybe the reason she turned to stone will be left ambiguous? Either way it’s a very clear parallel
@@eldric.stoneskinI think that queen Marika turning into stone was meant to show her being shattered alongside with the elden ring and it was caused by her being a vessel and not because of her being a numen but I might be wrong. I hope that we will get more lore about numen in the dlc and I hope that we will find evidence of them being inspired by Númenóreans from lord of the rings
Luwin mentions in Bran chapter that Winterfell is like a stone weirwood with the crypts tunnels as the castle's roots. So to position greenseers in tombs seated on weirwood thrones makes sense.
I think Winterfell literally was a weirwood that turned to stone. The canopy was destroyed probably in / before the last long night. The crypts probably were the actual space the roots used to occupy .the lightning struck tower would have been the trunk. The fact that the stone has hot water going through it like veins is because they are the capillaries of the tree. Perhaps that great weirwood was called ‘Winter’. This when it was felled it became Winterfell. The kings of winter references the name of that tree.
GRRM has lots of cthonic, subterranean locations: Crypts, Black Gate, "Mole's Town", BR's cave, the lava(?) tunnels found throughout Westeros, wells, etc...they all share the "Tomb as Womb" motif and almost all involve rebirth/transformation. The concept of "Livingstone" is used throughout the books, as well. The "Stonemen" of the East are also a sort of an inversion and abomination of the same concept, as if a Maester/Magi tried to mimic the concept, but failed and corrupted their victims instead, not unlike Qyburn, Valyrians, etc... GRRM loves this sort of "equal but opposite" concept (ice & fire). Not to mention all the obsidian being as a weapon to be used against the WWs, in particular. Jewels/Gems are also stones, of course, and are used to great magical effect all through the lore (sapphire, rubies/"bloodstones", emeralds, Crystal of the Seven, Sansa's hairnet, etc....). You could even go so far as to say Salt, Iron, Bronze, etc....are all also forms of Ore/Minerals/"Stones" that are mined (i.e. of the literal Earth itself) and refined. The CotF are literally still in their own "Stone Age" in terms of their technology, albeit with lots of magic, as well. My only real question is how the "statues will come to life" and physically rise and exit the crypts. I assume it will involve the Horn of Winter "waking giants from the Earth", rather than someone "casting a spell" on them directly. We better get some stone-direwolves too! Regardless of how it's done (something, something "magic"), it's sure to serve as some sort of physical protection and armor against the Long Night. They obviously won't be "invincible", so something may be able to kill them, but it might take something as powerful as dragon fire/direct contact with a WW. All forms of "armor" have a chink in them somewhere/somehow. I assume it will involve a "magical" weapon of some kind and not anything "man-made", including VS. Robert is big on the Living Statues and Crypts idea, as well. Come on by the @IDGLive Livestream today at 5pm EST!!!! We're talking House Arryn, but I'll post a link to your vid and get Robert distracted enough to talk about this stuff for a bit :) Cheers!
Yeah all excellent points Karl, I’m starting to lean towards Bran raising and controlling these stone warriors, using them as he uses Hodor to fight during the battle for the dawn And if he had a stone army at his disposal it makes perfect sense has to how we got “King Bran” rather than just the idea that “he had a good story” haha I’ll try and stop by mate, can be hard with the different time zones down here in Sothoryos Thanks for watching Karl!
Amazing video as ever mate but can I just take a moment to appreciate all the extra effort you have exerted in terms of art etc, goes a long way. Thank you!:)
@eldric.stoneskin a few thoughts from me: 1. Your video quality and production is insanely high level - really appreciate the effort 2. In your references about the Grey King, im happy you're sticking to that guy being a symbolic parallel to the Starks, rather than focussing on the theory that he could have been the first Stark. You did this in a previous video & i personally feel its something that can take you down unnecessary rabbit holes 😂 3. You NEED to plan that stream with Micheal Talks about Stuff because the Elden Ring parallels with a old queen turning to stone could serve as a good starting point for further Elden Ring parallels 4. 1 distinction to further aid your theories could be that the statues beyond the broken down section could be the greyscale-converted greensee-er kings. Whereas the recent ones from the crypts entrance, serve as symbolic parallels to the ones beyond the broken section, since these recent ones are acrually carved statues hiding the bones of the recently-deceased kings In any case, keep up the brilliant "Stone"-based theories, allows me to enjoy my cannabis & turn into a grey scale king myself (#stoned😂)
1. Thanks, been working hard to improve the production value 2. Yeah I figured the parallels just be symbolic, but I’m still thinking Brandon the Builder might have been a “bastard” of the grey king 3. Yeah we’ve been talking, just trying to tee something up, I’ve got an Elden ring video coming out next myself as well so keep an eye out for that 4. Yes that’s exactly right, I think the creation of the statues was almost an imitation of the original stone kings behind the wall Glad you enjoyed it mate! Always happy to provide content for my fellow Stoned Kings haha 💀💨
The faces in the trees is such a creepy concept it really makes the lore stand out in asoiaf. There are 3-4 scenarios I see for why the trees have faces. 1. They’re all ancient greenseers who have become one with the tree and now just look like craved faces. 2. Some of them are greenseers that have become one with the trees but others are carved by worshippers or fanatics, trying to re-create the process, but not truly knowing how. 3. The greenseers are under the tree in the roots and the faces were carved by worshippers/fanatics to make it easier for the greenseers to see out of the tree. 4. Or it could’ve been carved by people who hated greenseers and their worshippers as a warning “this tree will watch you so watch out”
@@zara-zq1oi it’s a fictional story literally nothing about it is a fact lol but even the history we do know is purposely blurred by the author to make you second guess everything. Were the faces carved? Maybe, id even give you most likely but we still can’t rule out that every weirwood on the isle of faces could have a greenseer in it and after the weirwood in the night fort on the wall we can’t rule out that those faces might actually be the faces of the greenseers or carved because there was a greenseer in the tree. But go ahead and keep slapping your face maybe it will knock some sense into you since you think you know everything. And even so this is a fun channel having a fun discussion if you can’t add anything but rudeness to it go somewhere else. Is your day really that bad you wanna try to ruin everybody else’s too.
"kiss of life" and yet we have other fictions where a prince is kissed and turned to stone. GRRM taking an established trope, inverting it, and making it way more badass. Edit: I dont know if he has any stone symbolism, but I have a feeling Peremore the Twisted became a greenseer. He has the markings of one. Born sickly and twisted with an unquenchable thirst for knowledge. There's a weirwood in Oldtown. I'll bet you Peremore is down there, petrified into his weirwood root. He might even be the Jade Emperor, as I think its now a given that Hightowers were Jade Empire since GRRM himself described the color of the High Tower's flame when they go to war as "Jade Green."
Yeah that’s exactly right, I’ve been meaning to look more into this trope of kissing and stone transformations Peremore the Twisted is a clear Greenseer character for sure, he was sickly and bed ridden like bran, the Hightower itself is a great weirwood symbol with its white “trunk” and firey top, and it holds all the worlds knowledge like the Weirwoods do And the order of Maesters that he established send messages by Raven, like greenseers and are made to wear Grey robes when becoming a maester, giving us more grey Greenseer suggestions
And when I say he’s a clear Greenseer character it’s either that he was an actual greenseer or George is using his character to inform us about Greenseers in general, and that’s one of the hard distinctions to draw in George’s writing, but either way we can discover something about Greenseers by analysing this character for sure And it might be the idea that Peremore had his “pets” and the maesters are presented as symbolic slaves with chains around their neck, might further the idea of Greenseers body snatching people to use as “pets” or slaves” in the same way Bran does to Hodor
@@eldric.stoneskin YES the bit about Peremore's "pets" is a dead giveaway as to the nature of the maesters aka grey rats as Lady Barbry loves to call them. Big shoutout to Crowfood's Daughter for finding that one.
Thank you Ser Stoneskin your theory videos are always worth the wait. Plus your channel name caused a theory of my own to start formulating while I was listening.
@@eldric.stoneskin ok what if its not that jon will need stone skin to battle the others and instead his half wolf half dragon has given him what he needs to be stones kin. Its not fully formulated cause I am running on no sleep and just sheer stubborn will power at this point. The other idea thats been rolling around in my head is the azhor ahia legend. You know how they say in Qohor that infant sacrifices are required to reforge valaryan steel ? What if his wife's unborn child's life was needed to forge the weapon and all the failed blades were him trying to find a work around to save the babies life. But when his wife's labor went sideways as so many women's in this story do he had to use his latest unfinished blade to cut the baby out of her hence her cry of anguish and ecstacy. Her life being willingly sacrificed to save her baby may have almost been enough but not quite cause the blade cracked not the moon but it did awaken dragons. Then that baby is actually the person who ended the long night when he grew up. The tale of the last hero could have been that same kid going to the children of the forest for help in fixing the blade where he learned he would need a child of his blood to remake it after he had tried sacrificing his friends and his dog. The others want babies cause maybe if they get their hands on the correct bloodline they can make the world theirs and the long night permanent maybe. Maybe all the different azhor ahai like legends but with different names actually were different generations of the same bloodline doing something that recalls the sun finally or keeps the long night 2.0 at bay and the others are rallying cause they finally have an opening cause whatever needed done didn't happen. This second one is kind of all over the place and way out there though. I am going to go crash before my brain melts trying to make cohesive sense of this mess of a theory I just rambled out. Maybe you'll have better luck untangling it if there is even any merit in it to warrant trying. Thank you again for the great videos. Can't wait to see what you create next.
The issue is it should have never been made into a series before he finished. It put too much pressure on him as a creative! David and Dan destroyed everything.
If you take Jon's crypt dreams and his storyline against the Others into consideration as well, it makes sense. Him fighting the Others, rising from the dead and then potentially using the Horn of Jormund to raise the metaphorical giants of Winterfell adds to the possibility of the theory
Started listening to this at work to see me through a boring work task and had to pause it and start over to make sure I was listening to all the details properly, and then gave up and was like, no, this one deserves a PROPER listen, not just a background listen.
@@eldric.stoneskinAny advice on how to imbed oneself in the theory community? I’ve got a ton of (what I believe to be) original theories that are relatively in depth, but I’m not entirely sure where to begin in terms of creating / distributing content…
@@callumdunphy4846 Yeah If your keen to start making RUclips videos id be happy to take a look and share, I’m only a smaller channel but happy to help out share good ideas and theories, I’d also try jump on some livestreams within the community and share your ideas and build some relationships within the fandom, I’ve found it a very welcoming community to join
Have you heard about tv tropes? It is a site where people can find examples of tropes in fiction and it could help you in finding potential sources of inspiration that George could have had. King in the Mountain for example.
Yeah there’s a lot of them, I actually considered going through Stiths Thompsons list of motifs and seeing which George has drawn on for a video, which I might do in the future
I like the idea of two forms of Weirwood extending one's life. Both require sacrifice, but different sacrifices. Nothern King's statue method; this requires the sacrifice of flesh and their freedom (waiting to answer the call to join the fight). Then their is the Greenseer method; this requires rhe sacrifice of their flesh and physical freedom (their body is given over but their minds can travel the Weirwood Net). Similar yet different. At least that's what I'm getting. Another fascinating video. I'm excited to explore these possibilities (if ONLY George would finish the series). Well, at least we have plenty to keep us busy while we wait
I’ve been thinking. I don’t think there are stone men under Winterfell. I think all those references refer to the dead bodies within the stone graves. I think the Starks placed the dead into stone crypts overseen by stone statues, wielding iron swords, firstly, so that the bodies cannot be risen by the others. But secondly, so that all of those bodies are a sleeping army that can be awoken by a green seeer, when the time comes. They aren’t literally stone, but they are cold and hard because they are preserved by the cold. The Stark ancestors will rise to fight the others, and will be controlled like chess pieces by a green sea, probably bran. What is concealed behind the collapsed level of crypt is a wayward throne, and possibly the oldest stark lords in their stone crypts
This is exactly what I think is going to happen, well said, I just see a lot of symbolism of them being stone men, for more on this you should check out The Disputed Lands video “Blessed with Stone” But back to Bran controlling these warriors, if Bran does have this undead army to control it explains how he became King Bran through power rather than just having a “good story” as they said in season 8
@@eldric.stoneskin Wait you don’t think they are going to physically be stone? I thought you believed that the blessing with stone was some from of greyscale transformation?
@@umwha yeah I do, what you initially said is exactly what I think will happen, the only difference is i do think those dead warriors Bran will control were transformed to stone, I’m open to how they were transformed to stone but I’m pretty confident it was greyscale
But how long could King Bran expand his lifespan, if all the weirwood trees in the south were extinguished by the Andals?There is no Godswood in King´s Landing anymore. To survive he would have to resign and go /roll at least to the Gods Eye or further north.
@@eldric.stoneskin Possible but hard to work. He´d need so many ravens to send all the orders. Or he could just leave daily business to the small council entirely.. But a King also has to represent the state and be seen by the people. If he is never present, people would no longer believe in him and stop following. Like with God, they could say: might be he sees everything, but he doen´t react or care and is therefore irrelevant for my daily life
The first Green Men were tree wargs who turned into trees slowly over the course of their lives. That's why they were giant, and potentially why they were low energy and would sleep much of the time. Eventually a Green Man would have tree limbs burst out of the side of his head, which is the myth of antlered Green Men. This is GRRM's version of ents.
The bit about the Grey King and his mermaid wife got me thinking. Brandon of the Bloody Blade was said to be involved with Rose of Red Lake. Shes an obvious skinchanger character as shes said to skinchange cranes at will. Shes also linked to a lake. Possible mermaid wife of Brandon of the Bloody Blade?
Yeah your spot on here! There seems to be a lot of ancient heroes taking watery women as you’ve said, Durran Godsgrief and his mermaid wife, Ned and his mermaid (Cat being a Tully), potentially even Hukko and the swan maids who he sacrificed similar to Brandon of the Bloody Blades sacrifices at Red lake
ASOIAF and this theory have alot of similatiries with Ragnarök of Norse sagas. In Ragnarök three roosters wake up the gods, einherjars, the giants. the dead and other creatures to the last battle. One of them wakes up the giants and other creatures. Another wakes up the gods and einherjars(dead human heroes in Valhalla). The third wakes up the dead in Hel. I think the roosters in ASOIAF could be the Great other, magical horns, the red comet and Jon. In ASOIAF the giants and einherjars are the same aka Kings of winter in the crypts of Winterfell, not the giants beyond the wall. Gods in the sagas could be the same as living men in the ASOIAF. White Walkers woke up the army of the dead. In sagas the army of the dead, giants and the monstrous wolves fought on the side of Loki. Maybe the Starks were supposed to be on the side of the WWs aswell? There's a lot of theories about Starks being villain and making pacts with the WWs, and after all the Night's king was a Stark. Maybe through Night's King the WWs tried to trick Starks on their side just the way Loki tries to trick the gods in the sagas? Night's Watch exist to wake up the men and giants. Jon is destined to wake up the giants in the crypts (aka einherjars). "...I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the HORN that wakes the SLEEPERS(giants?), the shield that guards the realms of men". In sagas after the roosters woke up everyone, Heimdall sees Loki and hes army of dead, giants and monsters approaching and blows the horn named Gjallarhorn. Then the gods and einherjars go forth to battle and the Ragnarök has started. Heimdall is Jon and Gjallahorn might be the Horn of winter in ASOIAF. When the Night's watch rode forth to fight the WWs during the Long Night they also blew some horn. In Norse sagas, Asgårds wall is built by a giant (same as in ASOIAF) but in Ragnarök it is also destroyed by giants. In Ragnarök, after the wall of Asgård is destroyed, the last battle will be fought in the open field. In ASOIAF the wall will go down and the last battle will be fought in the open field. Also when the wall goes down in the Ragnarök, some of the Loki's forces are crushed in the process. Same might happen in the ASOIAF, the horn of Joramund (or something else) might be used to take the wall down when the wights are climbing on it and they get through the gates. In Norse sagas the valkyries choose the greatest of the fallen human soldiers to Valhalla and the soldiers become einherjars. In ASOIAF childrens of the forest could be like the valkyries and they choose the human heroes which they preserve in the weirwoods(aka Valhalla of the ASOIAF) to fight in the upcoming battle. After the battle of Ragnarök most gods and creatures are dead and the world starts over. Only two humans survive and they start over the humanity. Remaining gods (children of the dead gods) get together to discuss how they can prevent this happening in the future and learn from the mistakes of past. They find the chess pieces that their fathers used in the gods games. They start a new round of chess and the new world cycle begins. Same might happen in ASOIAF: Most magical creatures are dead after the last battle, maybe extinct. Big bulk of the men of Westeros are also dead, but the remaining once gather up to make sure this cycle wont repeat itself again in the future. The Long night was the last cycle, but the First men and the Cotf couldn't finish off the enemy, instead made a pact of peace with them. Surviving First men and the Cotf gathered up and tried to prevent the LN happening again by building the wall, creating the Night's watch, making oaths and house mottos etc. Cotf also took the role of valkyries and might have intermixed with some of the First men(Starks) or some other way transfered the skill of greenseeing to them.
Missed the Stark crown. Compare... "She lept over a ridge of black teeth as tall as swords" and "nine black iron spikes wrought in the shape of longswords" I know I harp on it a lot, but I really feel like we need heavily question if the Grey King actually considered Ygg a demon tree. Why? Because a lot of these stories were written down by Andals. It's the Andals that considered the weirwoods demon trees. Whitestaff himself suggests that in older history their priests didn't actually fear them but held them as a part of a symbol of their connection to them. I also find the similarity between Whitestaff and Symeon Stareyes interesting. There is a fear noted in Asha's description as a counter to this argument. However, note that this fear of trees appears as well in Catelyn's description. It's also the initial feeling Bran has. There are two directions to take this. The very literal would suggest building a ship made of weirwood. The reverence of weirwoods doesn't necessarily indicate a Grey King wouldn't use the wood. While we might imagine it would kill tree, we should consider that the stumps around the continent still seem to retain knowledge and power. He didn't burn the tree he made an object of power. On the other end you have the figurative. You, yourself, make the connection between the weirnet and a sea. Which begs, was this a metaphor for the Grey King carving a throne from which to sail the weirnet sea. If the weirnet is a sea, it would certainly make sense to somehow describe a weirwood as a ship that sails it. I appreciate your recognition of Sansa in the topic of greenseers. It's rare and refreshing.
Pretty sure Blood Raven is extending his own life by leeching others of theirs. Take a closer look at those 'husks' that Bran was not supposed to see, but finds when he wargs into Hodor and goes exploring.
The thing that just dosent make sense is that if people turn to stone and sit down for hundreds of years, how do their joints move? How do they weild a sword fast enough to be useful in battle?
Joints could be soft, like clay. Why would they be slow? They could probably move as fast as normal. It's not like their movement is controlled by muscle and ligaments, but simple magic.
@@pankratos5017 Soft like clay also implies weakness. They would be slow because they are dead bodies that have been dead for hundreds or thousands of years, and are only preserved because they have hardened. Their muscles shouldn't be able to flex properly. Their physical movement still depends on their physiology - its their mental direction which will be remotely controlled via Greenseers. Look at the wights and undead we've already seen - their physical bodies power their movement, and thus almost all undead are basically extremely disabled.
Yeah fair call, but this is a high fantasy setting, I think the physiological complexities of stone bones and muscles could be overlooked, we see the stone men on the Bridge of dream still moving which could be setting up the idea of mobile stone men for the end of the series
Very interesting theory. The only thing that seems wrong is the black gate being a person. The mouth is big enough to walk through so that can’t be right
What do you think of Arthur Dayne slaying the "Smiling" Knight with Dawn, after putting a dozen notches in his sword. I am sure that the knight's name must have some symbolic value but I can't quite get it. As a knight of the kingsguard weilding Dawn, Ser Arthur Dayne can definitely symbolise an Other, but I was wondering if "smiling" had some value like "making the Shrouded lord laugh".
Yeah there’s some interesting parallels there, your right about making the shrouded lord laugh being connected to the smiling symbol, These are just some off the top of my head thoughts but The smiling knight reminds me of the knight of the laughing tree whcih was a smiling weirwood for sure, I’ll have to look further into this man
I think so yeah, with all these suggestions of stone people coming to life and having a disease which can people to stone I think It makes a lot of sense
Re the stone men it's a cool theory but I'm not sure what it adds to the narrative? If the last hero and his band became undead fighters against the other that's one thing but it obviously didnt resolve the conflict since the others are still around. I can see something like that being involved or something they learn in the struggle but it's not clear to me what narrative value that would have since at best that leads the story towards another stalemate.
I think the gaining of this magic is what not only ended the long night but caused it as well, reaching for the fire of the gods and upsetting the natural life and death cycle in becoming eternal greenseers and avoiding being consumed by the tree and is therefore at the crux of the narrative of what happened around the first long night
@@eldric.stoneskin yeah that makes sense, bran coming close to falling into that pattern but rejecting it would make sense. I guess the other challenge is how the Dany/Jon story will integrate with brans more explicitly magical narrative.
@@williamhermann6635 I get that it could be useful, Jon being undead will be useful in the fight against the elements but it doesn't lead the narrative towards a meaningful conclusion. At best it's a cool detail within the narrative unless it ties into the core conflict/breach against the rules of nature/humanity etc. If all you had to do was fight the others we've already seen Sam defeat one
@@bobshoby The undertone of this story is like a Ragnarok situation where all the different forces of magic are martialing their power. The undead stoneman warrior is the Stark's/North's version of magic. Think about it. Dany has her dragons, Euron is doing water crazy madness hes about to do, Leyton Hightower has been at the top of a giant weirwood symbol tower for 10 years consulting spell books with his mad daughter, Melisandre is up to no good burning people and weirwoods left and right, its gearing up for Ragnarok. Thats how it moves the story forward. Undead stone man is like nature's magical avatar in the fight.
I think Victarions burned hand may have something to do with the blessing of stone. It’s burned , yet stronger than before. Charring is like turning to stone. Perhaps Martin originally wanted the stone blessing to be to do with greyscale - perhaps this is related to the fact that in the first draft of got there was a plague which was cut - but now he’s trying to pivot to this fire conversion thing and hence he’s setting it up now with Victarions. If the CotF knew how to fire-convert people then that would serve the same purpose as the stone men thing. Perhaps a fully burned person looks like they are made of obsidian.
Yeah I do think this has something to do with it somehow for sure, I’m not sure how it plays into it but I think your right, especially since our next King of Winter Jon is about to be resurrected in fire
What's the point of turning into a statue? The Kings of Winter aren't turned into stone. Their bones are buried behind them. Sansa is a Stone because that's what they called bastards in the Vale. This video makes no sense. Lol.
The point is that becoming a stone man would vastly improve your chances at defeating the others, and Sansa’s name being stone is to symbolically suggest this idea, it’s how writers plant clues in their stories to the hidden lore and potential future of the story
@eldric.stoneskin Once again, the statues in the crypts aren't their physical bodies. So what does that have to do with defeating the others? Not once in the book does it make the connection between greenseers and becoming stone men. Lol. Greenseers have green sight, which basically means they can visions of the future. Remember, one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger, and one skinchanger in a thousand could be a greenseer.
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I don't know if you know, but queen Marika from elden ring turned to stone after a long time of being trapped within a big magical tree that gathers souls with its roots and there is no in game lore explanation
This detail would probably have been on the very edge of what GRR did for the game lore as well... so this fits all too perfectly.
I’m actually half way through an Elden ring script and have this very thing in mind! It’s one of my favourite games of all time, and the Empyreon/Greenseer parallels are very strong, keep an eye out in the next month for it!
@@eldric.stoneskinI know it will be great
@@ScadrianGhostbloodIve been looking into why she turned to stone, and perhaps you might be able to help out
It seems Marika was a Numen, who share a common ancestry with the Nox, who come from outside the Lands Between
And we also know the Onyx Lords and Alabaster Lords, who have skin of stone, come from outside the Lands between as well
Is there connection there you think? Maybe the reason she turned to stone will be left ambiguous? Either way it’s a very clear parallel
@@eldric.stoneskinI think that queen Marika turning into stone was meant to show her being shattered alongside with the elden ring and it was caused by her being a vessel and not because of her being a numen but I might be wrong.
I hope that we will get more lore about numen in the dlc and I hope that we will find evidence of them being inspired by Númenóreans from lord of the rings
Luwin mentions in Bran chapter that Winterfell is like a stone weirwood with the crypts tunnels as the castle's roots. So to position greenseers in tombs seated on weirwood thrones makes sense.
Yes! Exactly right! Stone greenseers beneath a stone tree, well said
I think Winterfell literally was a weirwood that turned to stone. The canopy was destroyed probably in / before the last long night. The crypts probably were the actual space the roots used to occupy .the lightning struck tower would have been the trunk. The fact that the stone has hot water going through it like veins is because they are the capillaries of the tree. Perhaps that great weirwood was called ‘Winter’. This when it was felled it became Winterfell. The kings of winter references the name of that tree.
Alot of ppl seem to forget that beric was on a wierwood throne in the cave.
GRRM has lots of cthonic, subterranean locations: Crypts, Black Gate, "Mole's Town", BR's cave, the lava(?) tunnels found throughout Westeros, wells, etc...they all share the "Tomb as Womb" motif and almost all involve rebirth/transformation. The concept of "Livingstone" is used throughout the books, as well. The "Stonemen" of the East are also a sort of an inversion and abomination of the same concept, as if a Maester/Magi tried to mimic the concept, but failed and corrupted their victims instead, not unlike Qyburn, Valyrians, etc... GRRM loves this sort of "equal but opposite" concept (ice & fire). Not to mention all the obsidian being as a weapon to be used against the WWs, in particular. Jewels/Gems are also stones, of course, and are used to great magical effect all through the lore (sapphire, rubies/"bloodstones", emeralds, Crystal of the Seven, Sansa's hairnet, etc....). You could even go so far as to say Salt, Iron, Bronze, etc....are all also forms of Ore/Minerals/"Stones" that are mined (i.e. of the literal Earth itself) and refined. The CotF are literally still in their own "Stone Age" in terms of their technology, albeit with lots of magic, as well.
My only real question is how the "statues will come to life" and physically rise and exit the crypts. I assume it will involve the Horn of Winter "waking giants from the Earth", rather than someone "casting a spell" on them directly. We better get some stone-direwolves too! Regardless of how it's done (something, something "magic"), it's sure to serve as some sort of physical protection and armor against the Long Night. They obviously won't be "invincible", so something may be able to kill them, but it might take something as powerful as dragon fire/direct contact with a WW. All forms of "armor" have a chink in them somewhere/somehow. I assume it will involve a "magical" weapon of some kind and not anything "man-made", including VS.
Robert is big on the Living Statues and Crypts idea, as well. Come on by the @IDGLive Livestream today at 5pm EST!!!! We're talking House Arryn, but I'll post a link to your vid and get Robert distracted enough to talk about this stuff for a bit :) Cheers!
Yeah all excellent points Karl, I’m starting to lean towards Bran raising and controlling these stone warriors, using them as he uses Hodor to fight during the battle for the dawn
And if he had a stone army at his disposal it makes perfect sense has to how we got “King Bran” rather than just the idea that “he had a good story” haha
I’ll try and stop by mate, can be hard with the different time zones down here in Sothoryos
Thanks for watching Karl!
Amazing video as ever mate but can I just take a moment to appreciate all the extra effort you have exerted in terms of art etc, goes a long way. Thank you!:)
Thanks mate! Glad you enjoyed it!
@eldric.stoneskin a few thoughts from me:
1. Your video quality and production is insanely high level - really appreciate the effort
2. In your references about the Grey King, im happy you're sticking to that guy being a symbolic parallel to the Starks, rather than focussing on the theory that he could have been the first Stark. You did this in a previous video & i personally feel its something that can take you down unnecessary rabbit holes 😂
3. You NEED to plan that stream with Micheal Talks about Stuff because the Elden Ring parallels with a old queen turning to stone could serve as a good starting point for further Elden Ring parallels
4. 1 distinction to further aid your theories could be that the statues beyond the broken down section could be the greyscale-converted greensee-er kings. Whereas the recent ones from the crypts entrance, serve as symbolic parallels to the ones beyond the broken section, since these recent ones are acrually carved statues hiding the bones of the recently-deceased kings
In any case, keep up the brilliant "Stone"-based theories, allows me to enjoy my cannabis & turn into a grey scale king myself (#stoned😂)
1. Thanks, been working hard to improve the production value
2. Yeah I figured the parallels just be symbolic, but I’m still thinking Brandon the Builder might have been a “bastard” of the grey king
3. Yeah we’ve been talking, just trying to tee something up, I’ve got an Elden ring video coming out next myself as well so keep an eye out for that
4. Yes that’s exactly right, I think the creation of the statues was almost an imitation of the original stone kings behind the wall
Glad you enjoyed it mate! Always happy to provide content for my fellow Stoned Kings haha 💀💨
Is that why Tyrion and Jorah are together? It is the job of the descendant of Lan of Lanister to make The Stone Man laugh?
The faces in the trees is such a creepy concept it really makes the lore stand out in asoiaf. There are 3-4 scenarios I see for why the trees have faces. 1. They’re all ancient greenseers who have become one with the tree and now just look like craved faces. 2. Some of them are greenseers that have become one with the trees but others are carved by worshippers or fanatics, trying to re-create the process, but not truly knowing how. 3. The greenseers are under the tree in the roots and the faces were carved by worshippers/fanatics to make it easier for the greenseers to see out of the tree. 4. Or it could’ve been carved by people who hated greenseers and their worshippers as a warning “this tree will watch you so watch out”
Personally I favour option 3 but I could see the isle of faces Weirwoods being created as you said in option 1
Maybe the children of the forest marked the weirwood trees, with faces, that had been "habitated" by greenseer in it's roots?
🤦♀️ it’s a fact that they carve the faces! When they make the pact they carve faces into the wirewood trees on the isle . Documented.
@@zara-zq1oi it’s a fictional story literally nothing about it is a fact lol but even the history we do know is purposely blurred by the author to make you second guess everything. Were the faces carved? Maybe, id even give you most likely but we still can’t rule out that every weirwood on the isle of faces could have a greenseer in it and after the weirwood in the night fort on the wall we can’t rule out that those faces might actually be the faces of the greenseers or carved because there was a greenseer in the tree. But go ahead and keep slapping your face maybe it will knock some sense into you since you think you know everything. And even so this is a fun channel having a fun discussion if you can’t add anything but rudeness to it go somewhere else. Is your day really that bad you wanna try to ruin everybody else’s too.
"kiss of life" and yet we have other fictions where a prince is kissed and turned to stone. GRRM taking an established trope, inverting it, and making it way more badass.
Edit: I dont know if he has any stone symbolism, but I have a feeling Peremore the Twisted became a greenseer. He has the markings of one. Born sickly and twisted with an unquenchable thirst for knowledge. There's a weirwood in Oldtown. I'll bet you Peremore is down there, petrified into his weirwood root. He might even be the Jade Emperor, as I think its now a given that Hightowers were Jade Empire since GRRM himself described the color of the High Tower's flame when they go to war as "Jade Green."
Yeah that’s exactly right, I’ve been meaning to look more into this trope of kissing and stone transformations
Peremore the Twisted is a clear Greenseer character for sure, he was sickly and bed ridden like bran, the Hightower itself is a great weirwood symbol with its white “trunk” and firey top, and it holds all the worlds knowledge like the Weirwoods do
And the order of Maesters that he established send messages by Raven, like greenseers and are made to wear Grey robes when becoming a maester, giving us more grey Greenseer suggestions
And when I say he’s a clear Greenseer character it’s either that he was an actual greenseer or George is using his character to inform us about Greenseers in general, and that’s one of the hard distinctions to draw in George’s writing, but either way we can discover something about Greenseers by analysing this character for sure
And it might be the idea that Peremore had his “pets” and the maesters are presented as symbolic slaves with chains around their neck, might further the idea of Greenseers body snatching people to use as “pets” or slaves” in the same way Bran does to Hodor
@@eldric.stoneskin YES the bit about Peremore's "pets" is a dead giveaway as to the nature of the maesters aka grey rats as Lady Barbry loves to call them. Big shoutout to Crowfood's Daughter for finding that one.
Thank you Ser Stoneskin your theory videos are always worth the wait. Plus your channel name caused a theory of my own to start formulating while I was listening.
Glad you enjoyed it! Be interested to hear your theory
@@eldric.stoneskin ok what if its not that jon will need stone skin to battle the others and instead his half wolf half dragon has given him what he needs to be stones kin. Its not fully formulated cause I am running on no sleep and just sheer stubborn will power at this point.
The other idea thats been rolling around in my head is the azhor ahia legend. You know how they say in Qohor that infant sacrifices are required to reforge valaryan steel ? What if his wife's unborn child's life was needed to forge the weapon and all the failed blades were him trying to find a work around to save the babies life. But when his wife's labor went sideways as so many women's in this story do he had to use his latest unfinished blade to cut the baby out of her hence her cry of anguish and ecstacy. Her life being willingly sacrificed to save her baby may have almost been enough but not quite cause the blade cracked not the moon but it did awaken dragons. Then that baby is actually the person who ended the long night when he grew up. The tale of the last hero could have been that same kid going to the children of the forest for help in fixing the blade where he learned he would need a child of his blood to remake it after he had tried sacrificing his friends and his dog. The others want babies cause maybe if they get their hands on the correct bloodline they can make the world theirs and the long night permanent maybe. Maybe all the different azhor ahai like legends but with different names actually were different generations of the same bloodline doing something that recalls the sun finally or keeps the long night 2.0 at bay and the others are rallying cause they finally have an opening cause whatever needed done didn't happen. This second one is kind of all over the place and way out there though. I am going to go crash before my brain melts trying to make cohesive sense of this mess of a theory I just rambled out. Maybe you'll have better luck untangling it if there is even any merit in it to warrant trying.
Thank you again for the great videos. Can't wait to see what you create next.
I love the theories, just wish George would work as hard to finish it as all the content creators do.
He’ll get there, it’s a colossal undertaking and I have hope
The issue is it should have never been made into a series before he finished. It put too much pressure on him as a creative! David and Dan destroyed everything.
The audacious to act like curating videos about this content is on the same level as fleshing out an entire complex world.
If you take Jon's crypt dreams and his storyline against the Others into consideration as well, it makes sense. Him fighting the Others, rising from the dead and then potentially using the Horn of Jormund to raise the metaphorical giants of Winterfell adds to the possibility of the theory
Started listening to this at work to see me through a boring work task and had to pause it and start over to make sure I was listening to all the details properly, and then gave up and was like, no, this one deserves a PROPER listen, not just a background listen.
Hope you enjoyed it!
Nice work, Ser
Glad you liked it!
Like the Stark kings of old, I'm gonna get stoned.
💀💨
Another amazing video my man
Thanks Brian! Appreciate it 💀🍻
loved the video, love your style, love the music choice and usage
Thanks mate, if you like the music check out Waves of Europa in the video description, just a music project a mate and I have been working on
Always quality work!
Cheers! 💀🍻
@@eldric.stoneskinAny advice on how to imbed oneself in the theory community? I’ve got a ton of (what I believe to be) original theories that are relatively in depth, but I’m not entirely sure where to begin in terms of creating / distributing content…
@@callumdunphy4846 Yeah If your keen to start making RUclips videos id be happy to take a look and share, I’m only a smaller channel but happy to help out share good ideas and theories, I’d also try jump on some livestreams within the community and share your ideas and build some relationships within the fandom, I’ve found it a very welcoming community to join
Have you heard about tv tropes? It is a site where people can find examples of tropes in fiction and it could help you in finding potential sources of inspiration that George could have had. King in the Mountain for example.
Yeah there’s a lot of them, I actually considered going through Stiths Thompsons list of motifs and seeing which George has drawn on for a video, which I might do in the future
I like the idea of two forms of Weirwood extending one's life. Both require sacrifice, but different sacrifices. Nothern King's statue method; this requires the sacrifice of flesh and their freedom (waiting to answer the call to join the fight). Then their is the Greenseer method; this requires rhe sacrifice of their flesh and physical freedom (their body is given over but their minds can travel the Weirwood Net). Similar yet different. At least that's what I'm getting.
Another fascinating video. I'm excited to explore these possibilities (if ONLY George would finish the series). Well, at least we have plenty to keep us busy while we wait
Yeah good point, there’s always great sacrifice for great magic, glad you enjoyed it mate!
@@eldric.stoneskin thank you, and you do great work. So thank you
It all seems so obvious, after you explain it. Great and original analysis!
I tried to ask this in a stream one day that the Weirwoods were the greenseers.
I’ve been thinking. I don’t think there are stone men under Winterfell. I think all those references refer to the dead bodies within the stone graves. I think the Starks placed the dead into stone crypts overseen by stone statues, wielding iron swords, firstly, so that the bodies cannot be risen by the others. But secondly, so that all of those bodies are a sleeping army that can be awoken by a green seeer, when the time comes. They aren’t literally stone, but they are cold and hard because they are preserved by the cold. The Stark ancestors will rise to fight the others, and will be controlled like chess pieces by a green sea, probably bran. What is concealed behind the collapsed level of crypt is a wayward throne, and possibly the oldest stark lords in their stone crypts
This is exactly what I think is going to happen, well said, I just see a lot of symbolism of them being stone men, for more on this you should check out The Disputed Lands video “Blessed with Stone”
But back to Bran controlling these warriors, if Bran does have this undead army to control it explains how he became King Bran through power rather than just having a “good story” as they said in season 8
@@eldric.stoneskin Wait you don’t think they are going to physically be stone? I thought you believed that the blessing with stone was some from of greyscale transformation?
@@umwha yeah I do, what you initially said is exactly what I think will happen, the only difference is i do think those dead warriors Bran will control were transformed to stone, I’m open to how they were transformed to stone but I’m pretty confident it was greyscale
But how long could King Bran expand his lifespan, if all the weirwood trees in the south were extinguished by the Andals?There is no Godswood in King´s Landing anymore. To survive he would have to resign and go /roll at least to the Gods Eye or further north.
I think he might be King from the Gods Eye tbh
@@eldric.stoneskin Possible but hard to work. He´d need so many ravens to send all the orders. Or he could just leave daily business to the small council entirely.. But a King also has to represent the state and be seen by the people. If he is never present, people would no longer believe in him and stop following. Like with God, they could say: might be he sees everything, but he doen´t react or care and is therefore irrelevant for my daily life
The first Green Men were tree wargs who turned into trees slowly over the course of their lives.
That's why they were giant, and potentially why they were low energy and would sleep much of the time.
Eventually a Green Man would have tree limbs burst out of the side of his head, which is the myth of antlered Green Men.
This is GRRM's version of ents.
The bit about the Grey King and his mermaid wife got me thinking. Brandon of the Bloody Blade was said to be involved with Rose of Red Lake. Shes an obvious skinchanger character as shes said to skinchange cranes at will. Shes also linked to a lake. Possible mermaid wife of Brandon of the Bloody Blade?
Yeah your spot on here! There seems to be a lot of ancient heroes taking watery women as you’ve said, Durran Godsgrief and his mermaid wife, Ned and his mermaid (Cat being a Tully), potentially even Hukko and the swan maids who he sacrificed similar to Brandon of the Bloody Blades sacrifices at Red lake
ASOIAF and this theory have alot of similatiries with Ragnarök of Norse sagas. In Ragnarök three roosters wake up the gods, einherjars, the giants. the dead and other creatures to the last battle. One of them wakes up the giants and other creatures. Another wakes up the gods and einherjars(dead human heroes in Valhalla). The third wakes up the dead in Hel. I think the roosters in ASOIAF could be the Great other, magical horns, the red comet and Jon. In ASOIAF the giants and einherjars are the same aka Kings of winter in the crypts of Winterfell, not the giants beyond the wall. Gods in the sagas could be the same as living men in the ASOIAF.
White Walkers woke up the army of the dead. In sagas the army of the dead, giants and the monstrous wolves fought on the side of Loki. Maybe the Starks were supposed to be on the side of the WWs aswell? There's a lot of theories about Starks being villain and making pacts with the WWs, and after all the Night's king was a Stark. Maybe through Night's King the WWs tried to trick Starks on their side just the way Loki tries to trick the gods in the sagas?
Night's Watch exist to wake up the men and giants. Jon is destined to wake up the giants in the crypts (aka einherjars). "...I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the HORN that wakes the SLEEPERS(giants?), the shield that guards the realms of men". In sagas after the roosters woke up everyone, Heimdall sees Loki and hes army of dead, giants and monsters approaching and blows the horn named Gjallarhorn. Then the gods and einherjars go forth to battle and the Ragnarök has started. Heimdall is Jon and Gjallahorn might be the Horn of winter in ASOIAF. When the Night's watch rode forth to fight the WWs during the Long Night they also blew some horn.
In Norse sagas, Asgårds wall is built by a giant (same as in ASOIAF) but in Ragnarök it is also destroyed by giants. In Ragnarök, after the wall of Asgård is destroyed, the last battle will be fought in the open field. In ASOIAF the wall will go down and the last battle will be fought in the open field. Also when the wall goes down in the Ragnarök, some of the Loki's forces are crushed in the process. Same might happen in the ASOIAF, the horn of Joramund (or something else) might be used to take the wall down when the wights are climbing on it and they get through the gates.
In Norse sagas the valkyries choose the greatest of the fallen human soldiers to Valhalla and the soldiers become einherjars. In ASOIAF childrens of the forest could be like the valkyries and they choose the human heroes which they preserve in the weirwoods(aka Valhalla of the ASOIAF) to fight in the upcoming battle.
After the battle of Ragnarök most gods and creatures are dead and the world starts over. Only two humans survive and they start over the humanity. Remaining gods (children of the dead gods) get together to discuss how they can prevent this happening in the future and learn from the mistakes of past. They find the chess pieces that their fathers used in the gods games. They start a new round of chess and the new world cycle begins. Same might happen in ASOIAF: Most magical creatures are dead after the last battle, maybe extinct. Big bulk of the men of Westeros are also dead, but the remaining once gather up to make sure this cycle wont repeat itself again in the future. The Long night was the last cycle, but the First men and the Cotf couldn't finish off the enemy, instead made a pact of peace with them. Surviving First men and the Cotf gathered up and tried to prevent the LN happening again by building the wall, creating the Night's watch, making oaths and house mottos etc. Cotf also took the role of valkyries and might have intermixed with some of the First men(Starks) or some other way transfered the skill of greenseeing to them.
Very well said, couldn’t agree more with all this, I go into alot of this in my greyscale kings series part 5
Everytime you say "seated on his wierwood throne" I want to play Smoko by The Chats.. subscribe engaged
Hahaha what a tune, just picturing a greenseer on a milk crate now with a durry in hand 🤣
Missed the Stark crown. Compare... "She lept over a ridge of black teeth as tall as swords" and "nine black iron spikes wrought in the shape of longswords"
I know I harp on it a lot, but I really feel like we need heavily question if the Grey King actually considered Ygg a demon tree. Why? Because a lot of these stories were written down by Andals. It's the Andals that considered the weirwoods demon trees. Whitestaff himself suggests that in older history their priests didn't actually fear them but held them as a part of a symbol of their connection to them. I also find the similarity between Whitestaff and Symeon Stareyes interesting.
There is a fear noted in Asha's description as a counter to this argument. However, note that this fear of trees appears as well in Catelyn's description. It's also the initial feeling Bran has.
There are two directions to take this. The very literal would suggest building a ship made of weirwood. The reverence of weirwoods doesn't necessarily indicate a Grey King wouldn't use the wood. While we might imagine it would kill tree, we should consider that the stumps around the continent still seem to retain knowledge and power. He didn't burn the tree he made an object of power. On the other end you have the figurative. You, yourself, make the connection between the weirnet and a sea. Which begs, was this a metaphor for the Grey King carving a throne from which to sail the weirnet sea. If the weirnet is a sea, it would certainly make sense to somehow describe a weirwood as a ship that sails it.
I appreciate your recognition of Sansa in the topic of greenseers. It's rare and refreshing.
Yeah I love that they seems like evil trees to anyone who doesn’t follow the old gods, being screaming/crying bleeding trees with hands
Catelyn is also a warg, into fish in the river, so maybe their kids can warg fish and wolves. Above and below
Pretty sure Blood Raven is extending his own life by leeching others of theirs. Take a closer look at those 'husks' that Bran was not supposed to see, but finds when he wargs into Hodor and goes exploring.
Yeah could well be
@@eldric.stoneskin But also pretty cool in text-anything that used to be alive and has turned to stone CAN be rezzed.
the lords of winterfell must join the weirrwood network through the heart tree in the godswood of winterfell
The thing that just dosent make sense is that if people turn to stone and sit down for hundreds of years, how do their joints move? How do they weild a sword fast enough to be useful in battle?
Joints could be soft, like clay. Why would they be slow? They could probably move as fast as normal. It's not like their movement is controlled by muscle and ligaments, but simple magic.
@@pankratos5017 Soft like clay also implies weakness. They would be slow because they are dead bodies that have been dead for hundreds or thousands of years, and are only preserved because they have hardened. Their muscles shouldn't be able to flex properly. Their physical movement still depends on their physiology - its their mental direction which will be remotely controlled via Greenseers. Look at the wights and undead we've already seen - their physical bodies power their movement, and thus almost all undead are basically extremely disabled.
@@umwha So they're probably more similar to extreme versions of Stone Men.
@@pankratos5017 yes and dosent it say they hobble , shamble and have stiff frozen limbs ?
Yeah fair call, but this is a high fantasy setting, I think the physiological complexities of stone bones and muscles could be overlooked, we see the stone men on the Bridge of dream still moving which could be setting up the idea of mobile stone men for the end of the series
19:22 Ironborn Drowning ritual
the throne of haranhall is made of weirwood also
Very interesting theory. The only thing that seems wrong is the black gate being a person. The mouth is big enough to walk through so that can’t be right
It seems ancient first men were most likely giants which is what I put this down to
What about DRAGON STONE which is covered in stone dragon statues and no one knows exactly when it was built
What do you think of Arthur Dayne slaying the "Smiling" Knight with Dawn, after putting a dozen notches in his sword. I am sure that the knight's name must have some symbolic value but I can't quite get it. As a knight of the kingsguard weilding Dawn, Ser Arthur Dayne can definitely symbolise an Other, but I was wondering if "smiling" had some value like "making the Shrouded lord laugh".
Yeah there’s some interesting parallels there, your right about making the shrouded lord laugh being connected to the smiling symbol,
These are just some off the top of my head thoughts but The smiling knight reminds me of the knight of the laughing tree whcih was a smiling weirwood for sure, I’ll have to look further into this man
Greenseers were not just children of the forest and starks…. Bloodraven is a Targaryen/blackeood
Asai south of the South is fire, noth of thr north is ice. Make of it what you will.
Is there a connection to the grey scale? The stone men?
I think so yeah, with all these suggestions of stone people coming to life and having a disease which can people to stone I think
It makes a lot of sense
Every time you mention someone coming back stronger and harder it triggers childhood memory of Steve Austin, the 6 million dollar man!
Better, Stronger, Faster, Harder 🤣
@@eldric.stoneskin The North remembers, the Fall Guy is coming!
It seems the answer is written in stone.
Re the stone men it's a cool theory but I'm not sure what it adds to the narrative? If the last hero and his band became undead fighters against the other that's one thing but it obviously didnt resolve the conflict since the others are still around.
I can see something like that being involved or something they learn in the struggle but it's not clear to me what narrative value that would have since at best that leads the story towards another stalemate.
I think the gaining of this magic is what not only ended the long night but caused it as well, reaching for the fire of the gods and upsetting the natural life and death cycle in becoming eternal greenseers and avoiding being consumed by the tree and is therefore at the crux of the narrative of what happened around the first long night
@@eldric.stoneskin yeah that makes sense, bran coming close to falling into that pattern but rejecting it would make sense. I guess the other challenge is how the Dany/Jon story will integrate with brans more explicitly magical narrative.
It gives them the armor to oppose white walkers, dragons, whatever. The old gods version of being a warrior in valyrian steel armor.
@@williamhermann6635 I get that it could be useful, Jon being undead will be useful in the fight against the elements but it doesn't lead the narrative towards a meaningful conclusion. At best it's a cool detail within the narrative unless it ties into the core conflict/breach against the rules of nature/humanity etc.
If all you had to do was fight the others we've already seen Sam defeat one
@@bobshoby The undertone of this story is like a Ragnarok situation where all the different forces of magic are martialing their power. The undead stoneman warrior is the Stark's/North's version of magic. Think about it. Dany has her dragons, Euron is doing water crazy madness hes about to do, Leyton Hightower has been at the top of a giant weirwood symbol tower for 10 years consulting spell books with his mad daughter, Melisandre is up to no good burning people and weirwoods left and right, its gearing up for Ragnarok. Thats how it moves the story forward. Undead stone man is like nature's magical avatar in the fight.
8:01
So much repetition
Thanks
Thanks
You’re very welcome!
❤
I think Victarions burned hand may have something to do with the blessing of stone. It’s burned , yet stronger than before. Charring is like turning to stone. Perhaps Martin originally wanted the stone blessing to be to do with greyscale - perhaps this is related to the fact that in the first draft of got there was a plague which was cut - but now he’s trying to pivot to this fire conversion thing and hence he’s setting it up now with Victarions. If the CotF knew how to fire-convert people then that would serve the same purpose as the stone men thing. Perhaps a fully burned person looks like they are made of obsidian.
Yeah I do think this has something to do with it somehow for sure, I’m not sure how it plays into it but I think your right, especially since our next King of Winter Jon is about to be resurrected in fire
19
What's the point of turning into a statue? The Kings of Winter aren't turned into stone. Their bones are buried behind them. Sansa is a Stone because that's what they called bastards in the Vale. This video makes no sense. Lol.
The point is that becoming a stone man would vastly improve your chances at defeating the others, and Sansa’s name being stone is to symbolically suggest this idea, it’s how writers plant clues in their stories to the hidden lore and potential future of the story
@eldric.stoneskin No, it doesn't. Lol.
@eldric.stoneskin Once again, the statues in the crypts aren't their physical bodies. So what does that have to do with defeating the others? Not once in the book does it make the connection between greenseers and becoming stone men. Lol. Greenseers have green sight, which basically means they can visions of the future. Remember,
one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger, and one skinchanger in a thousand could be a greenseer.
@@eldric.stoneskin also Sansa name once again isn't symbolic. It's the bastards name of the Vale. So Robert bastard is symbolic? Makes no sense.
@@Pap602 agree to disagree I guess haha