Us nerds have to get our shit together mentally. Many of us have beaten the jocks, gotten success and some even have gotten the girl(s) and/or boy(s). But we're not seeing the bigger picture. Stop turning success into existential dread lol. And if you don't like the games life plays after you won it, don't just bitch about it; change it for the next person up.
@@epicotakugamer4930 Nerds winning gave everything this tinge of bitterness. I can't fully wrap my head around why. If I had to guess, many nerds didn't expect to be doing as well as they are, and there is a cognitive dissonance between their expectations and reality. Still speculating, but maybe they've over narrativized their lives, and no matter how many times you tell them "You're good, you've made it", they can't believe that people don't hate them, and they're one mistake away from getting shoved in a locker. Conversely, in the "Jock Era" from post WWII up until the 1980s (with a break for economic crisis in the 70s), these guys expected to win every step of the way. American exceptionalism, the Great Man of History theory, Ayn Rand, the Me Generation and so on. They were bad but in a very different way. There was and still isn't a single shred of doubt in those people's minds that they're good and everything they do is good just because it's them acting on their desires. TL;DR: Capitalism has picked a new ubermensch archetype with different, but still terrible results
@@TheMagnanimousMany Because what spreads I suppose, is a state of mind, not a state of affairs. Nerds won but that doesn't change what they feel or how they think, its like still being an incel after you had sex. It was never about the sex, it was all the mental and emotional baggage. Its like FD talking about Drake - he won but he still acts super insecure and try-hard. There's so many people with so much money and power who are so clearly in dire need of therapy and taking it out on the world, and its exhausting.
Someone on reddit said that authors keep trying to write about racism, but give the racial minorities special powers that only *they* can use, thereby giving the people in-universe a more legitimate reason to be fearful/racist than fascists in real have ever had. I just thought that was an interesting point.
I feel this way towards the movie Elemental. They try to make a racism allegory but their literary pure elements. Of course pure fire beings are going to be discriminated against because they burn everything they touch. They all should've been one type of being (human/elves/trolls/ect) with Elemental powers. Then it would make sense.
I'm reading that as well and it really only elucidates how thin the understanding of racism is. Disliking a racial group is racism only when there is a power element. This is why people from dominant racial groups almost ALWAYS hold the completely incorrect view presented in the take we've heard. This view of racism says ANYONE can be a racist. Power has nothing to do with it. Just personal feelings towards someone. It's obvious why people from powerful groups would prefer this incorrect view. It makes racism something anyone can individually be guilty of and thus absolves dominant racial groups altogether.
@@nathanbedfordforestnonsense. Racism can exist separate of any power dynamic. Its about that persons inner world and beliefs/prejudices. I say this as a black guy who was beaten in the street at age 12 while bring called a N. Just following your logic through will lead you to not recognize racism where it might otherwise actually exist and say there IS racism where there is none and the truth is more nuanced.
Another thing that always bothered me about the ending is the treatment of the women in the cast. What do you mean Ymir was in love with her abuser??? Why did Historia just randomly fall in love with her childhood bully and lose all plot significance?! Worst is Mikasa, who seemed like she could finally let go of Eren and move on with her life. But nah, she's still obsessed with him. Hurts to see.
The Ymir plot twist and Isayama’s comments about Ymir being a parallel to Mikasa despite Historia being the obvious parallel make this so much more worse too. Not only is Ymir somehow in love with a man who has caused nothing but misery and pain in her life that left her with trauma that passed down through all the generations of her people, but taking that and somehow making Mikasa reflective of that and (maybe inadvertently) framing Eren as her King Fritz/abuser and her still loving him for it, alongside him making Historia’s ending reflective of Ymir where she falls in love with her childhood bully just makes this 100x worse
Like he had the opportunity to do something profound and give Historia some kind of plot relevance after sidelining her and turning her into a red herring, but in the end its pretty obvious that he did not know how to follow through on the connection with Ymir and Historia and ended up writing a terribly tone-deaf and misogynistic ending for them both where the victim of slavery/child abuse/SA is now the one who is at fault because of her love for her abuser dooming not only her people to go down this path, but also the death of 80% of all of humanity just adds another layer to how awful this ending was, and just cemented that he doesnt know how to write women at all unless it is in the context of their role to the men in their lives and in the story
@@blaze2690 i mean, Mikasa bringing her kids to visit the grave of her first love who committed genocide and then having them continue to visit his grave like some family tradition even after she dies doesnt really dispel her still being obsessed with him
As someone who suffers from clinical lifelong depression and autism, im not proud to admit but i can almost understand isayama/erens viewpoint to a tee. As im slowly moving up in my professional career and gaining social competence/trust from people, theres always an impostor self to me that honestly curses people for putting more trust and responsibility in me because my low sense of self and legitimately pathetic past can seem so divergent from the person I am today that people have hope in. But i also recognize that this is where power and responsibility comes. To self sabotage and leave your whims to the winds of chance is one of the most laziest things a man can ever do. I feel its important for impressionable youth to understand this. In a way it slightly reminds me of the biblical story of the man who hid his talents and did nothing fruitful with what he was given. Hope this take made some sense, if any.
As someone similar to what you've written here, this "being the best version of yourself" and not giving in to the despair, misanthropy and isolation is so exhausting. Like, I want to just hide from the world and do nothing but I also want to be loved and have friends, but I can't do both. And when I try to date and I put this 'best foot forward' it feels like I'm a fraud, like I'm lying and like I just want someone to love the mess and chaos and nothing inside me, but nobody ever will nor should they. When you feel this stuff inside you as the real you somehow, and know it'll never be embraced, you resent that fact, and you get angry and feel hopeless. I used to think you could spoon-feed the 'real you' to people overtime but they ALWAYS run away long before the real me is fully revealed and it hurts more than I can say. It just feels so unfair, like we have to do so much extra work and live a total lie, just to be loved or even hope to be loved, and I don't know what to do, ya know? The edgelord omnicide stuff in anime is so relatable sometimes... but its almost definitionally dumb so like, what else is there left?
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 I may be wrong, but what's worked for me is having a long term goal to orient myself towards the person I truly want to be in private and in society, but in a human way that doesnt hold myself to impossible standards. And I work hard to be consistent with my social and private life in a healthy way. I'm not afraid to tell people what I do in my spare time, but that took a while. And ive built habit over time to do at least one personally productive task in a day, which transformed to multiple and so on. It's a constant struggle and I fall alot. I'm still mentally a wreck and exhausted emotionally. I'm just about homeless now for circumstances out of my direct control, but I stay happy laughing and productive because I know what I'm capable of. I make friends but also more naysayers and enemies so to speak. But it allows me to speak my mind more easily and stay out of my head in social situations. And in this fucked up society I actually think just being candid and real in a healthy way makes people appreciate you more and see you as human. The reality seems to be that almost everyone is socially sick and the world needs more real people with heart
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 You've got everything you need. RUclips has great mental health tips videos that help think about your depression and hopelessness in another way. We my never be loved but I've found being my authentic self 24/7 (or as much as I can manage) frees me from the fraud feeling. And some people did leave when I started opened up... fuck em! Some people noticed me being real more and complemented me these past few months.
Just wanted to wade in here to point out the depiction of Ymir (titan progenitor) totally tracks w/ this. In Eren’s vision, each time that someone activates their titan powers, she’s forced to spend what’s depicted as months, years maybe, crafting their titan bodies out of sand. Those who call on their titan powers are unaware of this. It’s an incredibly affecting scene, and a nightmarish realization of the toll that the obsession with titan powers is taking on a single person, enslaved for eternity to reproducing these beings for people who are ignorant to the unfathomable cost. If that’s not a self-insert for the exhaustion and despair of Isayama then I should throw all my close reading skills out the window. It’s as literal a punch-in-the-face “look at what I do for all of you” statement as it gets. It also completely jives with everything FD points out. All the time we wonder how all this will play out, how the political machinations sway to and fro, *but really it’s all about freeing the enslaved author/artist of titans*. Instead of being affecting, it comes off as kinda whiny and shitty, which sucks. To be CLEAR, none of that invalidates what I’m sure is a very thankless position of feeling misunderstood/trapped by their work. But the way it’s delivered, as the plight of this one person being more important than the OMNICIDE OF BILLIONS is just really, really gross. damn FD, you never fail to bring me new insight.
It’s also worth noting that despite being a monthly series (as compared to a weekly one), Isayama never took so little as a break/hiatus. Like most mangaka take a week or month off every once in a while, whether it be to protect their health (that’s a very real recurring problem), or take extra time on upcoming color pages or tankobon volume art, or even just play some Apex (looking at you, Aka Akasaka of Kaguya-sama and Oshi no Ko fame). Not Isayama though. The publisher Kodansha really made a point of emphasizing that as AOT ended. If you have ANY issue of Bessatsu Shonen Magazine from when the magazine itself was started in September 2009 to til April 2021, it is 100% guaranteed to have a chapter of Attack on Titan in it.
Not untrue. But in this context, I'd call it a lamentation. Isayama isn't trying to show people how to fascism. He doesn't believe they could avoid it if they wanted to. Very sad.
@@michaelblakemutschler594 It makes me think of a Jordan Peterson clip I saw from the "Some More News" video on him. He was talking about a test for US soldiers in WWII that he misunderstood as saying that people with 85 IQ or below have nothing to contribute to the military. He then says that the military is about as complicated as the rest of society so if those people can't contribute to the military then they also have no hope of contributing to the rest of society. Now, all of these illogical extrapolations lead him to say "So what do you do with these people if they can't function in society?" And he says that there's a dark path we shouldn't go down but he can't think of anything else to help these people. When he's talking about that "dark path" he means some Aktion T4 Nazi Eugenics shit. That's the only path he can see but he has (or had at the time he said this) enough empathy to be horrified by this thought and want something else. He can only see that particular solution (to a problem he made up, mind you) because he has shut himself off from the possibility of something like, say, just supporting those people without expecting them to return a profit. His brain is so drenched in colonialist, eugenicist, and anti-communist propaganda that it leads him only to fascistic outcomes. This rubs up against the better angels of his nature that recognize how awful that would be, leading to an honestly apocalyptic sense of dread and doom. How long can you live in fear of the apocalypse before you learn to welcome it? At least then this tension will be released, one way or another. I've been in a similar depressive headspace before and my conclusion is that you can either learn how to breakdown these reactionary limits in your mind and embrace a more left-leaning worldview, or you give in and just become a fascist.
Wolf of Wall Street does not condemn Jordan Belfort. In an interview with Timothee Chalamet, Martin Scorsese basically said that he didn't get why people were critizing him for not condoning his acts when, in his words: "Do i need to tell you explicitly that's wrong?"
@cesarmartorano6903 Well there's a subtle but important nuance between implicitly (like Scorcese did) condemning something, by relying on assumed shared values for example, and not condemning it at all. And even leaning into it and giving it legitimacy and importance in the general discourse.
You know what? Let me take this comment section to vent (emphasis on the vent). I was anime only and when the story took its turn away from just monster spectacle to social/political commentary in S3, I was definitely one of the ones who 1) peeped all of the now very blatant allusions to Japanese nationalism/imperialism/statism (an aside, while Isayama definitely takes some inspo from the treatment of Jewish ppl in the Holocaust in the depiction of the Eldians, I always saw that as mostly aesthetics. As far as the political allegory goes, the Eldians read to me as a stand-in for Japan/Japanese people, mixing in elements of Japanese isolationism, military expansion and imperialism, and forced "de-militarization" at the hands of other powers leading to a dizzying combination of victimhood, denialism, revisionism, and a desire for rearmament being a major thread of modern hyperconservative Japanese politics) and 2) had to tell myself to wait and see where it all went. And my reaction? Isayama spent a whole lot of time and energy just to balk and end up saying nothing about any of the political/social criticisms he touched on, apart from the very banal observation that racism/xenophobia is bad. But to the questions the story raises about how should we address the ramifications of that racism/xenophobia in the world? Hot air. Best he has is Eren saying at the end "idk but I guess we can all agree now that omnicide isn't it!" Is diplomacy the answer then? Probably not considering that the former Survey corps are effectively diplomats and the credits show the world falling into war and destruction after their envoy to talk with the Jaegerists. You could argue that the cyclical nature then is the point, that war and hatred is never ending, but that flies in the face of the character development for most of the principle cast so that can't be it, either. Just an absolute dodging of having to say anything of substance on those matters. Personally, I don't buy the idea that he ruined the ending on purpose. I think the more likely answer is that he bit off much more than he could chew trying to tackle such heavy themes. I think the popularity of AOT really did make him uncomfortable, because it invited a lot of eyes from AROUND the world onto his story that was meant to just reflect his narrow perspective re: war, discrimination, and peacemaking .(Re: "narrow", if we take him as Eren as a valid reading--and I personally do--he basically says as much since Eren explicitly calls himself an ignorant idiot at the end.) But he was suddenly positioned as a "serious" critic on those issues with some insight to share because of the unexpected popularity of the anime. So instead of ending with something that can be seen as a coherent argument on those matters that others can hold him to, he chickened out, wasting both his time and mine
I think you're right in saying Isayama bit off more than he could chew but it's almost like that's kind of the point. Going off the lines of the video Isayama's main character is a middle finger to himself in that the manga is his shitty answer to the world's problems.
There was an early interview where Isayama said that he wanted to convey a certain feeling of being a bystander to a friend committing horrific violence, unable to completely condemn it but still horrified. And I instantly thought it was a huge insight into the story -- that Eren isn't so much the protagonist as the object to whom we are standing beside, as he shows how much of a monster he is (starting with his double homicide at 9 years old, continuing to when he becomes a literal monster Titan) and this interview was circa season 3 of the anime, he hadn't even entered his aloof spree killer era yet. And then the manga ending puts it to words when Armin thanks Eren for the Rumbling. If this is the thesis of Attack on Titan, it makes sense why Isayama spends so much time honoring both sides of the "fight" or "talk" dichotomy, and refuses to take a deeper position -- his intention is to convey the feeling from sitting on that fence
@@kevinbroberg3504Trying to find the interview now, that is so damn enlightening AoT isn’t about anything more than fence sitting Shitty exposition as well at the end, Annie saying “Armin do you really think we can be diplomats” cut to the audience seeing that that doesn’t work out at all It’s interesting that Isayama also compares himself to Reiner, Reiner and the others don’t in anyway get a satisfactory ending with them all just put on a boat “Umm… fuck… what to do with these other characters… They went on to be diplomats! That’s my story, bye bye”
Some of your criticisms are understandable and we are all entitled to our opinions, but I trully don't get why the cycle of war and strife couldn't be the point. It is the point. The point is there is no solution, but it's still WORTH it to try to work towards peace anyway despite knowing it will never last forever. You may disagree with it, or think it's a useless observation, and that's perfectly fine. But there's really no need to say "the story avoided saying anything". Because it did.
Honestly, I'm impressed when a main character is NOT a self insert of the author. Self inserts are not inherently bad but there is a reason why they're discouraged. Unless the author has explored and RESOLVED their personal issues it's just gonna bleed into their work in the worst way. The fact that Eren had no rhyme or reason to his decision making makes total sense bc it doesn't seem like Isayama did either. It sucks even more because everything seemed so well structured story-wise UNTIL the end, which is when the decision making went haywire for both the main character and its author.
It went haywire for you (and the others who were dissatisfied). There are people who were able to predict the way it ended because they were able to see what the intention was so for those people the ending made total sense
It would have made more sense I think if towards the end Eren's mind was corrupted/poisoned by the previous attack titans, which led to his nonsensical actions. And add more plot devices to make it so that Eren wanted his friends to kill him as soon as possible before he commits global genocide. It would stay true to Eren's relationship with freedom, and it would hammer down on the theme that war is bad by having Eren try to actively avoid it within his control. It would've also played more on themes of militarised indoctrination, like we see with Gabi, as something tragic. Because militarised indoctrination in story telling can be depicted as this mind controlled version of Eren I'm talking about. It wouldn't be perfect tho, you could just write Eren without having him become a monster
@@Itchy__ what exactly was nonsensical about Eren's actions? If you watch the very first episode, you'll see this was foreshadowed from the very beginning
@@LuisSierra42 The future destruction and tragedy that ensued were foreshadowed. But not the fact that it was Eren himself who would orchestrate and commit those tragedies.
@@Itchy__ WHAT!! At the end of the very first episode Eren says "I'll kill every single one of them" which was just the first hint at his extreme positions and then throughout season 1 we just keep seeing little hints like this such as Mikasa's backstory where Eren literally stabs a man to death and other characters jokingly saying that "Eren will one day destroy the world". I invite you to rewatch AoT and see for yourself, all of the things I mentioned happen in like the first 5 episodes.
As lame as this sounds, I think everyone is a little right and little wrong about what this is all about Iseyama admitted that he could have made a happier ending where things worked out better and the heroes successfully stop Eren earlier on, but he felt it wouldn't be appropriate for how the story was building up. In the end, Iseyama was feeling depressed and looked at the world around him as constant cycles of conflict and hurt people hurting people, and he wanted to make a story showing that, and that you need to take in the nice moments throughout to appreciate life itself and to keep existing. He even has Erwin say in S3 "The world will never know peace until the human population is down to 1 or fewer" And while MAYBE we can progress globally to be more accepting of one another, recent events show it's a difficult and SEEMINGLY impossible task. However, I would say you're definitely right about Iseyama using Eren specifically as a conduit for his impostor syndrome, and I love how much it pissed off fascist fans lmao
I loved the way AoT ended but I have to admit that I usually do feel like a nihilistic misanthrope and I was very much aware that Isayama felt the same way which just strengthened my para social connection with him. I simply can't see a world where things will be fine for the majority of people
@@thedangerwich5476 The answer AoT gives you is that there is no answer. It is up to you to make sense of what happens in the same way that you would have to make sense of the conflicts that are currently going on like Israel vs Gaza or Russia vs Ukraine
@@thedangerwich5476 the answer is to not indoctrinate your children with the belief that they aren't good enough and love them unconditionally. That's the very obvious them in AOT.
@@D14MBKlol good luck, guess it’ll all be sorted soon then, because people raised in happy homes NEVER have the same fucked up drives that have plagued humans since the dawn of history… My sweet summer child… reality isn’t like fiction. The bad guys don’t always have compelling motivations- people are just like this, and it’s never going to go away.
I know it'll probably never happen, but I'd love to see this level of analysis in a my hero academia review about violence and systemic violence and masculinity
This and a take on Horikoshi's writing on how heteromorphs are othered for their appearance; even after people start accepting people with quirks and how being the "respectable one" is the answer is something I really want to hear a take on.
@ethanmoore5325 yes, because there's some heteromorhps or partial heteromorphs that get passes like Mirko and Hawks, but people like Gang Orca (who's heavily black coded) gets cast as villain looking. Funny enough FD just made that interracial relationship video and about mixed people and those characters seem to be analogous to being mixed. Whereas full on mutants are casted as bad people from the jump and literally get l*nched and have segregation laws. I'd love to see the break down of this
[Incoming spoilery MHA animu discussion!] . . . . . The one thing that I find both interesting and sad in MHA, as someone who only watches, (other than the fact that they kiiinda missed out on basically an opportunity for a "perfect ending" with the fight after Shigaraki wakes up) is that this show seems to have backpedalled on some of its themes. For the first couple of seasons, you know, through to the Stain Arc and the fallout from the confrontation with All For One etc... the story seems to be building towards kind of exposing All Might's idea of a perfect world where he personifies justice and whatnot as being BS. There's a lot riding on the dangers of idealising him, the discrepancy with the person he really is and the obvious question of "what happens when he's not there, if we made him the lodestone of civilisation?" The story seems to be more and more saying that is not a good way to do things. But then it seems like it just kind of decides All Might is beyond reproach after all. So it backpedals on that whole angle just super hard. That is not only the way to be and Deku WILL be the super duper one hero to rule them all and in the darkness bind them, but also because Endeavour is person who's in that position right now, the story just has to REALLY abruptly make him "a good guy, actually, don't worry about it" (even if later on "the mistakes of the past" seem to come haunt him and whatnot). I feel like the story lost a lot of its potential in that, as it tries really desperately to not only keep scaling infinitely but also making Deku the most specialest boy
@VileLasagna hey sorry for such a late reply. But to sum it up. That IS the point. The way things have been going have been wrong and doing so made people complacent. The teachers even talk about this when discussing the possibilities of a traitor in UA. That's what the whole point of Lady Nagant and Hawks characters are. Idolizing heroes and not seeing the shades of Grey in the world. It would be nice to have a symbol of peace but not the system is incredibly flawed that children have to be at the center of stopping the catalyst of societies doing via the league of villains... especially Dabi, toga, shiggy, spinner, and Co. It's not back pedaling, it's making that logical connection. The whole endeavor thing is a very very very nuanced conversation on the Japanese household and eugenics and contributing to society. Something I csnt speak much on but some awesome people on Twitter have made awesome threads on. I can't link them rn, but if I ever find it. I'll come back. But a tldr; no, it's not back pedaling, that's been the goal the whole time. Hinted at via deku idolozing AM too much and talked about how hero society got too lax and the whole shiggy plot line. It's addressing those things fairly often, even in the most recent season. I'm a caught up manga reader so I know all the spoilers.
All lamentation and controversy aside, at least it IS over. Dragon Ball is still limping along as a pale shade when Toriyama was ready for it to be done 30 years ago.
Isayama really does just seem like a doomer to be honest. I feel like he just looked at world history from a zoomed out lense, and wrote about the cycle of war, oppression, and most importantly, blowback. The “connected” world leaders in the AOT series all collectively keep the Eldians contained and convinced they are a threat. And with the history of Ymir, we can see that at one point, they were. The Royal family took a vow of peace, and through intentional masquerading of the truth, the current generation of Eldians don’t remember (and also have nothing to do with) the oppression of their ancestors. And this in its own way is profound. We can see many nations that fought for independence, and now have become the oppressors, or vice versa in the real world. The scales of power are always shifting. Admittedly I haven’t watched the last two episodes so I might be missing some context, but even when Eren is proud of his father killing the royal family (or coercing him into it?) the tone of the show makes it seem like we should feel in horror. The audience shouldn’t agree with Zeke, but in that moment, we should almost feel just as scared of Eren as he does. And Floch is the ultimate loser. I have a hard time feeling like anyone actually likes the dude in general, even in the show LOL. Hanji seems to want diplomacy and definitely seems like the most well intentioned character, but part of the story does feel like, sometimes even good intentions from entire factions are not enough. And maybe that is the crux of the message. Maybe Isayama realizes that there is no such thing as true freedom. True freedom to him is being alone, and not being perceived. And the story is just realizing that as long as more than one person inhabits this world, conflicts will happen. And that’s why he should feel like an idiot. Isayama and Eren probably both realized that no matter how bad it gets, no matter how much hatred you have pent up, the worst case scenario is foolish. He solved nothing, and made everything worse because they both hate sitting with how insignificant they feel in the grand scheme of things. The reference to feeling like cattle is significant. That feeling of being small, and feeling helpless as governments and hierarchies spread their poison. Or being actively on the defensive against people attacking you for reasons you can’t even comprehend. It’s a pressure cooker for radicals just like the real world. So yes, I think this piece is Doomer, nihilistic, and hopeless, but it’s an interesting piece of fiction nonetheless. It shows the other side of revolution. It shows why authoritarianism is a response sometimes. It doesn’t mean it’s right, but we do have to wrestle with the fact that there are people who identify with an Eren because of conditions in the world. And that’s the scariest theme of this entire work.
Honestly, with how the world is going right now, same Isayama. Like, I'm sure hope or just the will to survive is what's keeping us going at this point but it does just seem we're destined to make the same mistakes again and again.
What you are describing in your second sentence is the historical practice of longue duree, which (among other things) looks at long periods of human history to make their points. If all you have to offer for analyzing a long period of history is a "cycles" narrative then you did bad history. Contexts are constantly changing and good commentary on history can move beyond superficial "cycles". All this to say that AoT is bad historical commentary, among other things.
@@yserareborn "then you did bad history" Ok, then what? Yes contexts are constantly changing, but most of those contexts can be seen as arbitrary in the grand scheme of human history itself, leading these contexts to form a cycle.
19:11 This whole section is stupid He was set up by the commander, he also died saving armin. He also became something good because of his dad 19:45 those are all bad guys 20:04 YEPP all bad guys
Princess Weeks was right about Danaerys the whole time. You did it again with Eren Yaeger. Will SOMEBODY start listening to Black/Brown media critics, please 😂?!
@afrosamourai400 She said a lot, lol. When I searched, I found 2 videos from 4 years ago: 'Game of Thrones' Sucks Now, You Say? And What is Dany's 'Madness?' But I'm pretty sure she was speaking up as early as Season 3, when Dany Whyte Saviored Astopor and Mereen with absolutely NO plan (or cultural context) for the people and places she just changed forever 😂
@@watermage25opens your eyes to the flaws or strengths you might not see in a piece of media. It challenges the media to stand up for itself. Multiple reasons.
Now that I think about it, Armin and Eren's conversation is very disappointing compared to Armin's conversations with Bertolt. In those conversations, Armin tried to appeal to Bertolt's humanity and then when that didn't work, he tried to get under his skin by lying about how Annie is being tortured. But the interesting thing about it is that Armin was trying to basically deescalate a situation before realizing that he's talking to a racist person who views him as a "devil" and says things like "If I agree to talk, will you all agree to die?" and "That's the way things are because I decided it". To me, Bertolt's stubbornness and appeal to fate and "the way things are" when justifying his destructive actions are a perfect parallel to Eren and his desire to destroy the world. I think that Armin, knowing Eren could still stop the Rumbling, should've used what he learned from his conversations with Bertolt against Eren. Not to tease him or talk him down but to really get under his skin to get the upper hand. Armin should've been more cruel
its truly jarring seeing Armin, who many saw as the moral compass of AoT ending up forgiving his genocidal friend and not only being complicit in his genocide but also thanking him and saying he wont let what he did go to waste and in the end playing an active part in what Eren did
@@pilferedbrimley657 why cuz he just felt like it? bro had the coordinate and saw the future and his only excuse for not stopping it is cuz "im stupid" 😭
If anything i like how the ending protrayed Eren specifically in the end. While his influence on the story and characters may still be that of someone to be admired or misunderstood we as the audience have no conflict with who Eren actually is. It is outright stated by himself that he's an idiot who committed genocide because he wanted to and had the power to. The message is clear (at least to me) that he's a fraud and always has been. In that way, he's an excellent critique of the alt right and their characteristics. A lot of aot fans are younger and may look up to alt right online figures like andrew tate and sneako, etc. For Eren to be a fictional adaption of their ideology but then turn out to be a dumb fool the entire time might make fans of him and the ideology he represents call them into question.
I agree that Eren looks like a genocidal maniac villain at the climax of the story. What’s alarming is how many readers still see him as a morally justified hero. The story was pretty explicit about Eren being the villain at the end, with the entire scout regiment uniting with the Marleyans to stop him. It wasn’t explicit enough. That says something about how much people will distort media to fit their narratives.
@Ryuksgelus omg totally, it was so disgusting how they just dropped a number and moved on. The whole point of the story is to humanize your "enemies", but then the entire population is fine to be reduced to a statistic?🤔
I have been pissed off about this ending for weeks. WEEKS. But Isayama basically ending up identifying with Eren and stubbornly clinging to his original plan makes an unfortunate amount of sense. It explains why the ending isn't really satisfying because according to your theory, it's just righteous cynicism. The kind you only get from stewing in the mud of depression/misanthropy for too long. And extrapolating your own shitty thoughts instead of doing some soul-searching and coming to the conclusion that maybe you got your own hopes up. There are a lot of people who feel that way, and our society heavily discourages actually discussing those feelings and working them out, because time is money, toxic positivity, etc. But a Rumbling is not the answer. Eren didn't acknowledge that he took his disappointment of the outside world, and eventual revenge fantasy to its dumbest, most extreme conclusion until it was too late(which imo is kinda debatable)...and the series ultimately blamed it on the tortured slave girl, who we didn't find out was actually "in love" with her abuser until the very last minute(????). AND in a way "rewarded" him by fulfilling his wish of having Mikasa still be obsessed with him for the rest of HER life-- never truly realizing that she does in fact exist outside of him. All while banging on the entire time about freedom. It honestly gives incel vibes. I'm very worried about misanthropes who will try to use this series' legacy as confirmation that they're the smart ones for giving up, because I have seen that. And it ain't pretty.
I'm torn. The manga industry in Japan IS VERY restrictive unless you somebody like Akira Toriyama. You'd be surprised at how some of the most popular mangaka still gotta listen to Japanese-Corporate overlords. It's a real thing. So when Isayama say he felt "restricted" despite all he had accomplished, the 1st thing that came to me was the execs took away the power he thought he would have. I could be wrong, but that aspect could be worth diving into or exploring more. That's why you have some great series ended cuz the MANGAKA QUIT. Corporations force you to do shit or work at an unhealthy pace, so you just tap out or write a shitty-rushed ending so that you can take a damn break. Without more context from those articles, THAT'S what I lean towards. And I say this as a dude who only watched the 1st season of AOT and NEVER picked up the manga. Bro did not get the power he thought would have and several "restrictions" forced him to keep that ending. With how the manga industry is, I can definitely believe that. It just happened with Bleach. The industry in Japan is brutal.
This is where I was leaning too. The ending didn't feel like self-sabotage, but a rushed mess like the author was trying to tap out. Nothing about the ending felt consistent.
The best compliment I can give someone is to make me watch videos about things I absolutely don't care about. I've watched every video he's done on this show and I haven't watched not one episode. I love his breakdown and analysis of this character and themes
You have got to watch it , s1 through 3 at least , there s a reason this show got a 9.1 on imdb with multiple episodes in the top ten episodes of all time , and sitting at the 24th best show of all time. You have got to watch it
even when they showed the flashback of all their fallen comrads, it got me so mf mad. they essentially died at the hands of erin, for nothing, because he was bored. They wanted a land without titans and erin wanted to see the world flat out of curiosity. if your take is a cope pill, i would have to take it to not feel like i wasted following a series for 10 years
@@DanaBonn He mostly did it for his friends. As he explains to Reiner, he sees no difference between people, he doesn't believe in nations, the whole Survey corps die in hands of his friends and he knew that was gonna happen (yet people still say Eren is fash, somehow). If he had only killed a part of humanity, they'd eventually invade Paradis and kill them all which wasn't what he wanted, it'd only be prevented with the power of the titans but he wanted said powers removed from existence, and if he killed everyone in the outside, his friends would have nowhere to go and be rewarded for being the heroes of humanity. Eren kills 80% of humanity because it's the only way his "lie" about his friends being heroes will work, and not only that, he sees both the past and the future, and he is disappointed in humanity existing outside the walls, he wishes humanity was the (rather) united civilization he once lived in, instead of a complicated world with wars and prejudice, and he believes his friends may at least live without those prejudices in their lives and fight for democracy. It's a perfect plan for a psychopath like him, if you think about it
Eren is and always will be a tragic character that Isayama fully knowing without trying to justify his deeds that he is a scum of the earth. Its all ambiguous when it comes to siding with anyone at all and we happen to see most of the perspective with eren due to the fact that he finished the thousand year long catastrophe, except it’s never going to stop and eren doesn’t know anything about that. I hate the fact that there’s a tree signifying there’s more titan tomfoolery which means eren knew there would be more war. That shows how screwed up he is and to be honest eren’s decision definitely is not the best and he probably knew it.
Hey FD. Huge fan. Just wanted to make a minor correction. The quote you got from "Tomino Ryu" is actually from Yoshiyuki Tomino who's the creator of the Gundam series (created the very first Mobile Suit Gundam and directed a few others) and he has a magazine that he makes named "Tomino Ryu no Tomino" which is where that quote of his feelings on Attack on Titan and Isayama comes from. It's really interesting because Tomino made it a point in his works to show that war is rarely ever as simple as "Good vs Evil" and having many of his beloved characters suffer terrible fates and deaths to show that war is awful.
Thank you for pointing this out! I'm a native Japanese speaker and the トミノ流のトミノ'ryu' means 'style'. Much like the styles of karate (Goju-ryu, Shotokan-ryu, etc). So Tomino style Tomino. Love Gundam and Tomino-sensei.
And doesn't Isayama show that again and again that war is indeed complex and not at all good vs evil? And he also doesn't like Evangelion, his views are not the goto if you are considering anything.
At the exact moment where Eren tells Armin that he's an idiot with power and what did anyone expect is when I realized 'oh so Eren is a self insert.' Then I saw the NYT article and it backs that up. Maybe I was taught by Game of Thrones but I'm no longer under the delusion that the people behind these works are great visionaries. Sometimes it's a lightning in a bottle situation, sometimes bolstered by the team around them to make things successful but they're more than capable of losing the thread and under-developing themes and concepts. Most media is like that, assuming they even try, and very few manage to really truly go deep without imploding. I think Isayama knows this too. The only thing I want to push back on is that the implied reincarnation of the Titan power at the end of the story isn't necessarily bad. It's a kid w his dog discovering the power, not a fleeing slave who then returned to be abused (for some reason) maybe things can change. Maybe the new founder will make for a more egalitarian generation. It's ambiguous enough for that to be a fair read
No because the ending was foreshadowed in the literal fxcking beginning meaning Isayama planned at all. What evidence do you even have that Eren is a self insert other than "oh I just feel like it is"?
19:11 This whole section is stupid He was set up by the commander, he also died saving armin. He also became something good because of his dad 19:45 those are all bad guys 20:04 YEPP all bad guys
As a absolutely old head ass anime fan, Ive had many thoughts on this show. I never thought the show was good. I lost interest at the start of the second season once I recognized how serious the show was attempting to be. Given that, in the "defense " of Ishiyama, I have to say that so much shonen anime has moved so far from its very anti war origins (Osamu Tezuka wrote Astro boy not longer after being beaten half to death by an american soldier. He openly opinned about his experiene crafting that story. Also look into the history of Barefoot Gen). Attack on titan is a another of a series of "edgy" shounen stories that have coming out of the genre for about 20 years. ATOT of course became the most popular of those, but id argue that we are shocked by the direction of this show, largely because we in the west havent been paying attention. There is greater commentary here about the way Japanese people of a certain age and demographic (typically men from the Heisei era, born during the Lost decades like Ishiyama was) view thier own history, and how that is reflected in the stories they ingest and the ones they create.
I kinda feel like having Eren be shown to still be a loser makes for a good Adolf parallel. Brought about one of the most horrific regimes in history, was still a bad painter on his second choice of career. I feel like the ending was trying to pull off Code Geass, but forgot that Lelouch, as far as I recall, didn't actually cause the worst atrocities in the show and he was actively trying to make everyone hate him to get the rest of the world on the same page.
Oh! Someone else mentioning CG. Lelouch actually does cause atrocities in the show, but it's played as more unintended consequences. I also posted this in the comments, but while I love CG, I also think it's pro-nationalist and pro-militarism. However, I think CG is anti-fascist funny enough. Still, very messy politics.
@MrScreenplay I know Lelouche did awful things on his path of revenge, but clearing up the holes in my memory he never used the nukes which would be the equivalent to what Eren did. That said I do see your other points, but those are to be expected coming from Japan considering how much Japanese media resents the nation's subservience to the US and how they refuse to acknowledge Nanking and Pingfan. Code Geass I sometimes worry is just a revenge fantasy against America, it just happens to be a fun time doing it.
@systemofachemicalnir in the context of the show yes, it is justified. When you take into account other shows (Godzilla GMK and the 90s Ghidora, Valvrave the Liberator, Yuki Yuuna is a Hero, Battle Royale 2) and the post-war history of the country, you realize they believe they did nothing wrong and have been unjustly brought to heel under the US, and would take over the world if not for other countries keeping them down. It just makes me feel uneasy about CG and how truly close Japan is to returning to early Showa politics.
You made an error at 18:39. Eren couldn’t use the training gear because Shadis sabotaged it so he would have to quit the Scouts and go back home. When Eren eventually passes the test, he does so with gear that was designed to fail. In this sense, he was actually the most talented at the time because he passed at test his friends could not. Also, let’s not forget that as a child, Eren saved Mikasa from three kidnappers by murdering them with farm tools. Yes that was good they maintained their freedom, but it’s also horrifying that a child was capable of that. Long story short, Reiner said it best: “Eren is the worst person to have the Coordinate.” For many reasons, that boy Eren was always crazy and destined to do horrible things. He developed into a villain but it wasn’t a heel turn. In some ways he’s similar to Gon from Hunter X Hunter. Circling back to Isayama, in his own mind he was the worst person to have the power of a famous mangaka or in Eren’s words “I was just an idiot that got power.” When approaching from this lens, I find the ending to be more reflective of the reality we live in. I can’t think of a single world leader that isn’t just an idiot with power, which leads to the unfortunate commonplace of genocide(there are currently over 20 genocides happening today!) in our world. EDIT: @fd signifier we need a breakdown on Levi and Erwin while you’re focused on AOT. Personally I think those characters are who Isayama wishes who he really was.
I appreciate you for sharing this interpretation. I believe that power will always corrupt the holder of it, as it's not natural to have the amount of power you can have today from an evolutionary perspective. Biologically our brains are still in the hunter-gatherer era and the human species has existed for 300 000 years. As modern hunter-gatherer cultures have been studied globally it has been shown that they all value equality in different corners of the world. Individuals who would try to achieve power through dominance would be disapproved, punished, abandoned or in worst case killed by the other members to maintain equality. When members of the !Kung hunter-gatherers go to hunt they all have their own arrows that are randomly mixed to different hunters and when they bring the prey the one is celebrated who's arrow killed the animal, not the hunter that killed it. This way the best hunter's ego doesn't go through the roof. There will always be individuals who try to achieve power through dominance and by oppressing others.
The reason Reiner is my favorite character in the story is because as Eren himself admits him & Eren are the same, only Reiner is an example of Eren if he wasn't a sociopath. He's the one that commits a terrible act and gets the heroic character arc that you would expect from the protagonist, down to feeling so distraught over his actions he nearly offs himself at one point.
Brian Klaas’ book “corruptible” explores how power is more attractive to bad people than it is to benevolent ones. People who are narcissistic, Machiavellian, and psychopathic are more likely to think themselves worthy of wielding power and will pursue it with ruthless means. Eren fits that bill, and seeks the power of violence even before realizing he’s a super-weapon.
@@YetiCoolBrothereven Gabi is a better analogue, when met with kindness, she actually questions the years of propaganda she's gone through. Eren despite being shown kindness by those Turkish coded people, he still chose genocide, he still chose to only see the worst of the world.
the ending made me cry specifically for mikasa. not because erin died but because she was unable to move on from him, and probably as a side effect of erin even having the founding titan ever through all of his time traveling escapades. she was a victim and people hold it as love.
@@afrosamourai400 she was connected to erin through her ackermin blood, which is fixated on the founder. Erin WANTED her to be stuck on him. He was so inconsiderate to her feelings or her being throughout the WHOLE STORY. their love and feelings were not fleshed out well enough to look anything else like a reflection of Karl and Ymir but make it stolkholm sysdrome lite
@@shellygarland8766That was a lie Eren made up to get Armin and Mikasa off his back. This was confirmed by Zeke saying that's a myth and told Eren that Mikasa genuinely loves him during one of their encounters.
In Pathologic if you get to "talk to the developers" (it's that kind of game) you can ask them what was "the miracle" which our heroine talked so much about and they basically say that they wanted to make bad fuck you ending for this character but they miraculously changed their decision in the very end and the good ending is a miracle on their part basically. When i played the game i didn't really get that statement but your video reminded me of it and recontextualized it. Developers probably just loved their world and maybe even respected their audience.
You can’t make me go from wishing a plague on Reiner and his entire bloodline, to making me wish he finds happiness and not be a great writer. Which made the absurdly horrid ending baffling. That shit felt like he gave up and just wanted to be done with AoT. Backtracking and trying to make Erin sympathetic was such a weak move. Stand on that shit with your chest out!
It does the complete opposite. If he wanted you to sympathize with Eren’s motives, Eren would’ve stuck behind them and given a more hardline stance than he did. The fact that he admits to being a mess at the whims of a power he can’t control and urges he doesn’t understand is the opposite of making you want to side with him. Just the very fact that regardless which side of the conflict you were on as a fan, most people didn’t like Eren at the end is proof of this.
It always cracks me up when Japanese artists use 1930’s German aesthetic for their army stories and are like « noooo it’s just aesthetic for fun » and then they write whack crimes and the story just ends on « ooooh it’s ambiguous. We’re nuanced and smart over here. » like … y’all realize this why they hate you on that continent right ? Like please even TRY to avoid the fascist allegations😭😭😭😭 I remember seeing many Koreans being disgusted by the ending of AOT for that reason. The bar is in hell yet some still can’t reach it. They ain’t lying when they say Japanese kids are taught revisionism about their country lol.
As a Korean, learning about Dot Pixis being based off of a real Japanese Imperial general who played a role in the colonization of Korea and Isayama writing the Eldians to be reflective of the Japanese in terms of isolationism, demilitarization, and Isayama writing them to be victimized by the outside world while using imagery of Jewish persecution led me to start analyzing AoT with a more critical eye that showed me more flaws and problematic things within it
@@bronmill33 The general Dot Pixis was based on died before WWII even happened, and Isayama stated that his admiration for him came from how he DENOUNCED being a military general and instead became an educator.
Thank you for writing that fanfiction, I see that 116 people thought it was very funny and it would be absolutely batshit insane if someone genuinely held these beliefs! Please, get yourself into comedy NOW
Didn't he say once in an interview that he wanted to open a Sauna with the tears of all his fans? This interview really cemented the fact that insecurity, misanthropy and not being...free, is inextricably linked to Eren and Isayama's character. Both can never be satisfied it seems; I hope Isayama is okay though, not Eren.
He started writing this at 19 to pay for his rent, & has been tied to this series throughout all of adulthood. I can’t imagine having all of that attention
Man, the use of that (those?) tool tracks was really perfect. I say this as a long long tool fan, but you managed to nail just the most perfect petulant dickhead lines for those pieces. REALLY loved that.
i thought the ending was interesting in the sense that it feels like isayama looked at End of Evangelion and asked himself, what if shinji was *actually* a bitch, with the same selfish motivation as his dad for example. i find it hard to look at the story in a vacuum cause of how obvious the parallels are, and much like eva it feels like a subversion of genre and tropes. all eren really wants and does is the same shit as any generic shonen protagonist, he wants freedom and he wants to punch bad guys to achieve that freedom, but with the complexity of the world he lives in and especially the racism he faces, just killing the "bad guy" aka 80% of the world doesn't work out as well as it would in any type of shonen
Great use of Tool throughout. As someone whose only exposure to this manga/anime was through content creator commentary, I have two thoughts. 1) Everything you've said makes sense to me and I'm convinced it's a reasonable opinion for me to adopt, as if I actually need to have one about it in the first place. 2) Based on this, Isayama has overwhelmingly succeeded in his art. Oh well.
We need to talk about the working conditions for the animators of MAPPA (the studio that makes this manga) and the anime industry In general cause it’s worse than people think
This!! What do we do? The only way things change is by hitting them in the wallet. Stop buying manga? Stop watching anime? I've thought about canceling my funimation and crunchyroll channels. Would that even matter? The whole manga business is warped because they make those authors produce new content too quickly. Anime is bad too because the animators work long hard hours and the pay isn't great. Are the animators at Mappa going to walk out?
100% cope take and (I pray) totally correct. This could be a work of fiction on the level of Kerouac, Cummings, Thompson, etc, where it's demanded of us to analyze why we take so much for granted about stories and what makes a story "good" and why that even matters.
Yes. I applaud Isayama's decision of leaving so many things up to interpretation because this makes the work more challenging. Nowadays most things are very safe in order to prevent this kind of controversy
Theres one point i feel was done well in the ending. When Eren says hes just a stupid kid who got power. To me Eren is a cautionary tale about how fast persecuted people, in particular young kids, can become radicalized. Hes not some genius master mind. Hes not a sigma male role model. Eren is not someone to be idolized, the only problem is alot of people didn’t understand that. Yet thats crucial to the whole message of the story. Racism, war, and nationalism all are present across erens life and he was given the attack on titan equivalent to the nuclear launch codes. The way this subverts the typical shonen mc arc, in my opinion, is what makes eren an interesting character. I think its a deliberate choice to make his actions “appear” justifiable by having us sympathize with the eldians but again, in my opinion, thats the point.
him as a protagonist, him starting as this driven underdog, to a genuine key player in the wider world, to then that world being displayed for what it is, and all the baggage attatched to his larger and growing final goal, then switching the main lens of the series to this young girl that's kinda like eren, who then she gets her entire life uprooted by our ex-underdog, he's now the monster that he was affraid of for so long. the timeskip slowly taking eren out of that protagonist role and more as a solidified antagonist i felt was definitely obvious at the time, especially with him rallying the jaegerists, it was depressing but fantastic. now i don't wanna be unnuanced with calling him the antagonist at the end just because he's a villain, but he really is the main driving force against the heroes, which at the end is humanity. i think it's so neat that he changed to be against what he originally set out to fight for, but like you said, i also saw a lot of people not getting that. hopefully that continues to change with people seeing him for who he really is at the end of it all, especially with the anime ending now, but it's such a big picture that i really ever hear gabi brought up in these discussions even though, like i mentioned, she's kind of a great eren... foil? i want to say, where eren kind of woke her up to the horrors of her wider world. i would love to try and add more but i just wanted to leave something (that i hope it is still) agreeing with what you said, but i am so tired at the time of writing this lol.
We could have still learned that lesson with a much better ending. Like him completing the rumbling but having to live with guilt over kiling his friends to achieve his goal for the rest of his life. Not this.
Well the issue is that Eren isn't a dumbass kid like yall want him to be. He never was. He killed 2 people at age 9, he was smart enough to realize that if he didn't do anything, she would be gone. Most kids would have listened to their father and wait for the cops to show up, just like Grisha told him to, but Eren did the opposite. We see him slowly lose his hotheadedness throughout the show, he starts thinking more with his head. He doesn't transform blindly out of rage when he gets kidnapped by Reiner and Bert, he maps out his escape plans. He never was some stupid, idiotic kid, even when he had anger issues lol. A man who can infiltrate an enemy base, stay hidden as a spy and plan out an attack isn't stupid. If Eren had been an idiot since the beginning, I'd get your point, but this is simply not true. Which is why him saying he's just an idiot doesn't make sense and feels out of character.
Honestly this theory makes the most sense out of any I’ve heard, and explains why everything in the ending feels “off” based on textual analysis alone. Add in the meta element, and suddenly the ending is somewhat coherent. I can’t give you a reason why he hates himself and the world so much, but it makes about as much sense as the ending tbh. It also explains why discourse about the series is so contentious right now. I could almost respect his artistic decision if it actually had any integrity behind it.
When I watched the ending (with a bit of caution and my brain really working bc I knew that this could go many bad directions) I realized that it was depicting some sort of extreme, cosmic indifference and nihilism. I walked away from it thinking so it’s a story about humanity, and a really negatively nihilistic and hopeless one at that. People hurt people then hurt people will hurt more people.. abuse perpetuates itself on and on forever. And it’s silly to think any one group of people would change that. The messaging about love is depressing and abusive as well. And I was like oh okay so this is a really hopeless story, that gave a lot of heart in the beginning and middle just to step back and say shit happens at the end. And then I kinda just stopped thinking about it. Because it wasn’t interesting anymore. It’s just nihilistic in the most regressive and hopeless way it could be. Nobody is redeemed, nobody fixes things, things can’t be fixed bc humans suck. Pretty edgelord messaging imo. I could totally see that being the message a young, hopeless and unhappy writer would want to put into their work, only to realize later that they’ve locked themselves into a nothing message because they can’t possibly color the story and commit to any satisfying intent or angle. It’s sad.. sad that the ending is so painfully lacking any message for all this effort. But I could see how someone would feel that way about life generally because I’ve felt like that before. I just didn’t have any audience watching it happen
I think you're second reason is a little off, I don't think the two positions are pro war and anti war. I believe the biggest lesson from the show is to stop indoctrinating children. Every major event in the show occurs because a child was indoctrinated into someone else's ideology and views; Reiner by his family and the Marlayan which cause him to break through the wall in ep 1; Grisha tried to indoctrinate Zeke, which lead to him trying to sterilize and therefore genocide an entire race of people; Grisha with Eren which lead to him becoming a child with more power than any child should ever have; Gabi by her family which lead to her being a child soldier and killing Sasha. I think this is the true lesson for the show.
In reason 3 you say he's an idiot who stumbled upon this power because Eren called himself an idiot. What you're forgetting is that he didn't stumble upon it like Ymir, his father FORCED it upon him at the young age of 8 or 9. Unlike the way his father received it, by being scouted out by a resistance leader. This further supports the point that the show is about not forcing your views on kids.
In the final printed volume, there's a few bonus pages that show modern day Eren, Mikasa and Armin arguing over the ending of a movie franchise. Mikasa likes the open ending, but Armin thinks the movie left too many unanswered questions. When they ask what Eren thinks, he says that he just happy to spend time with the two of them. I don’t know if I believe the ending was intentionally bad. I don’t think we would ever know unless Isayama explicitly says so but, I do believe that writing was both a dream and a burden to Isayama. I can see him feeling like Eren, stumbling into overwhelming power but not knowing how to deal with it or being a skilled enough writer to execute the heavy and complicated themes. I can see this as a story started by an angry 23 year old. That after 14 years, the now 37 year old feels trapped by the themes thought up by an immature adult. I still dont like the ending. AoT had some crazy plot twists, juicy character drama and a lot of disturbing facist imagery, but I'll still read Isayamas next work. Maybe it'll help my understand, parasocially why he wrote what he did.
19:11 This whole section is stupid He was set up by the commander, he also died saving armin. He also became something good because of his dad 19:45 those are all bad guys 20:04 YEPP all bad guys
The "Attack on Titan" ending felt kinda meh for a few reasons. First off, the pacing in the final chapters was rushed, leaving some character arcs feeling unresolved. It's like they crammed too much into too little space. Also, the big twist at the end didn't sit well with a lot of fans; it felt like a sudden shift that didn't mesh with the buildup of the story. Plus, the ambiguity left a lot of questions hanging. Now, when it comes to the show's messages, you gotta be careful. The whole "fighting for freedom" theme could be twisted by some to justify extreme actions or nationalism. It's like, sure, Eren had his reasons, but it's a slippery slope when people start misinterpreting that message. Overall, the ending could've been more thought-out, and the themes need to be approached with caution to prevent any misguided interpretations.
I mean, there's that, but there's also people right out miss interpreting the themes of the story. Seriously, a series that encouraged you to analyze almost every dialogue in each chapter is suddenly bad because you take the dialogue at the end at face value? C'mon at least try to think where the author is trying to go with it. Like this guy, why is there really a confirmation that Titans will be back when the freaking series shows the magic thingy die when the titans disappear? Why would you think that in the first place?
The idea that Hajime Isayama would of sabotaged his own work is an interesting theory. There is a really strange occurrence of Japanese creators who end up hating their own success. For example, the creator of Evangelion (Hideaki Anno) has expressed how the show's success made him deeply depressed, as well as the production of the rebuild series, which was why the message of the last Evangelion Rebuild movie was essentially to stop isolating yourself, touch grass, and be part of a community.
I feel like there’s some real validity to the idea the Eren is a reflection of Isayama, especially because both contain this very Japanese specific brand of doomerism where they know things are bad, but just kinda say it is what is it is and continue the same bad practices instead of changing them because so many people around them have the same attitude and don’t think they can do anything to change it(even though they can and often most want the changes). Thinking about aot with the lense of Japanese politics and current peoples attitudes towards politics makes a lot of the doomerism and lack of a solid/strong commentary on war and politics make sense(doesn’t make it okay but makes sense).
I recently watched pluto ( manga written by naoki urasawa san, I respect his work a lot) And this show was far better concluded than aot within 8 hours( given that couldn't have been too complex like aot given the time frame) But I have watched a lot of time travel fuckery and the thing that most pisses me off is that he had no other options. Although I do believe there was a clear depiction of " A man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills " .
Pluto is also an adaptation of a classic Tetswan Atom (Astro Boy) story arc, which is why it stays consistent thematically. Pluto is one of my favorite works ever though.
As a person with maladaptive day dreams something I can tell you is that often you don't have control over your stories and your characters. Often characters just do what they do without any real concious input on your side. And very often there are specific things in a story you have to keep even if these things are detrimental to the story. Things just are what they are and sometimes you're just not in control even though you're the author.
@@afrosamourai400 When I daydream my characters often evolve on their own without my conscious input. Three of my characters happen to have short hair for example. I didn't consciously thought about the idea of them having short hair they just appeared in my head with short hair. The group is also made out of two couples. A is dating N and K is dating KA. A and N dating wasnt something I tried to make happen, their relationship just progressed into something romantic without me trying to make it romantic. It just started to be that way. Again no conscious input on my side. K has blonde hair and always had blonde hair, I didn't do that on purpose. She just showed up blond with short hair. And If I had the chance to have my daydreams about their life's published I wouldn't change their race, gender, look or relationship with each other just so audiences would like it more because it would feel extremely wrong and leave a really bitter and uncomfortable taste in my mouth. K isn't K without her short, blond hair. N isn't N without her temperamental outbursts. A isn't A without her undying love for N. In my at least 5 years of maladaptive daydreaming about these four characters there wasn't one single time where N and A didn't die in their final fight against each other. They always die and they always die the exact same way. And if there was a show made about them their death wouldn't change just because the test audience or whoever doesn't like it. N and A die fighting each other. That is it, that's their ending and their only ending and I can't do anything about it. If I did it wouldn't be their story anymore. I don't know if you're able to understand what I'm trying to say but yeah this is how it is lol
Critically analyzing and course correcting your story is one of the first and most painful lessons a storyteller learns. Those raw impulsive ideas are like clay, they're meant to be sculpted. Failure to do so is legitimate failure at the craft. No shade to you, you're literally just daydreaming, but comparing your experience to a published mangaka who's worked with editors for years? Apples to oranges doesn't quite do it justice.
@@jacobyoung935 I am very much convinced that the vast majority of authors if not all of them are maladaptive daydreamers, therefore I believe that what I said is comparable. Changing your story or it's characters because your audience doesn't like what you do is the first step to failure and has nothing to do with "critically analyzing and course correcting". Some stories simply are dark and don't end in a happy ending. Some end with death and the knowledge that the next terror is just around the corner and personally I like that and I think that a lot of stories would profit from a darker ending. I for once enjoyed the AOT ending, I didn't mind the hopelessness, I thought it was quite fitting for this story.
I've been thinking a lot about self-indulgent, non-cathartic art lately, and what it does when it has an audience. This is a perfect example. When people have put a lot of time and emotional energy into a given thing and the investment doesn't pay off, it can be really difficult for people deal with that sunken cost. Thanks for talking so thoughtfully about Attack on Titan. Sometimes we aren't done with something until we are well and truly done.
Isayama has contradicted himself 100 times saying he has and has not changed the ending. In early interviews he said he originally had a The Mist style interview… basically most of your favorite MCs would’ve died. Then as AoT got more and more popular he decided to change the ending circa 2016 He went for the ending that would please eremika shippers and fans of most of the characters. BUT YESSSS WELL SAID. Isayama wanted to use Eren as a mouthpiece for his imposter syndrome
I was thinking of "Thanos was right" ppl while watching and you mentioned it. It also reminds me of "Nagato was right". Nagato was another one of these villains whom goal was mass destruction in order to force world peace. He witnessed all the ppl he cared about die, that "Pain" pun fully intended was the catalyst for Nagato. A lot of ppl who watched Naruto believe Nagato was right. I never watched AoT, I rarely watch anime unless I come across something special, like Narauto, like Fullmetal Alchemist. But watching your AoT videos are interesting from the outside looking in, bc I never see these points. Ppl I know who watch the show talk about it like every second is amazing and best writing story ever.
Interestingly, Naruto never does fix the shinobi system (or abolish it altogether); he and Sasuke just become so powerful that no other country can really go against their ''peace''. In that sense, one could make an argument that Nagato was right in the context of Naruto's plot
@@FujinKeima he definitively was right in the context of naruto..he's one of the greatest antagonist i know..he wanted peace by terror, eren never cared about peace, he just wanted freedom, revenge and his friends to survive..
like you said the world becomes fascist as the creator logically follows the path of where nihilism will ultimately lead you if you give in to it. Its almost like he just said to himself "write the most nihilistic thing you can" and it just naturally led down the path of glorifying fascism.
An issue I have with FD's take is that he himself admits that Eren's lines were explicitly changed to show he is wrong referencing to the scene where he calls himself an idiot along with other changes like Armin's rage at Eren and yet he still says that the narrative doesn't treat the Rumbling as a bad thing and tries to frame it as an example of Isayama being right-wing. I don't understand how Isayama (or his writing team) rewriting something to make it more clear a character's fascist acts are wrong can be taken as anything else but an instance of him framing fascism as wrong in his story.
It's so annoying how some people can never fail to make things about the alt right. Like, who tf cares if a group of bad apples like something for the wrong reasons? That shouldn't be how you consume and form opinions on media. It's just so childish to me.
@@moeski17 Yea, also looking at comments on on the internet like FD does is a very bad anecdotal way of assessing how a fandom is in real life. I could just as easily say that irl all the AoT fans I met were either liberals or progressives. Plus wasn't there a bunch of alt right guys trying to claim Black Panther (a movie FD likes) as an alt right movie a while ago?
@@phather3870 It's a very disingenuous way of looking at things. "Oh this person I don't like enjoys this so it's probably a medium made for such and such." Really lame. And I'm crying at the last part lmaoo is that true?! Black panther? Really? 😂😂
@@moeski17 It is literally all some of these media criticism spheres can do. "The text must scream at me my own beliefs, at a volume I cannot ignore, filtered through an incredibly American-centric lens! The author is dead, long live my effigy of the author!" It's the same sphere of media criticism that thought *Cyberpunk 20xx* is pro-late stage capitalism. They need a story to wink and nod and use key words to walk them through themes like a metatextual Dora the Explorer, or else they get lost and fall back on the skills they wrote a C paper with in lit201.
I belive Isayama started the manga being a fascist and ended it as a fascist in deradicalizing process. I mean that he now condemns the fascist solutions to the world`s problems but he still has a fascist diagnostic of what the world`s problems are. Like "yeah fascism sucks but people will always have conflict with eachother, so war and genocide will always be inevitable. I don't like it, but that`s the way the world is and always will be" kind of thing.
Holy SHIT it was nice to hear Tomino (a fav of mine) share thoughts I've had bubbling in the back of my head since 2013. This is off the topic of the video entirely, but it's really really heartwarming to connect with an artist at different times in different art forms, to get a sense of who someone is from watching eg. Gundam and then hear that same essence come through in their thoughts and words again and again.
Dang that interview line about eren wanting to be outside the walls in a world that was empty really makes it sound like isayama was trying to create a character like Johan from urasawas seminal Monster. Johan is an irredeemable character who the story of the manga and the radical empathy of the other characters manages to (somewhat) redeem. He is an ultra nihilist who just wants to exist in a ‘world without names’ because he has only experienced cruelty in the world as a person with no real identity. In the end we are forced to see the humanity inside the monster, as well as acknowledge that the potential for this monster exists in all people. The manga is explicitly anti fascist and anti murder, and is mostly about the fantasy of what if the best person in the world was also the best surgeon in the world (Kenzo tenma I love you). Highly reccomend monster and urasawas recent Pluto to any fan of anime. He is a life changing writer, and a genius at drawing facial expression (and ugly white people, which anime in general doesn’t depict enough)
I never saw johan like a nihilist but more like suicidal..he had empathy, he cared about his sister, he cared about tenma enough to kill for him and call him "father" he only wanted to be killed by the only man he respected..tenma! That's not nihilism to me..
@@afrosamourai400 i guess it depends. Johan is shown to have multiple personalities, one certainly cares for people (if sometimes that care is twisted by his fractured morality and sense of self), one wants to die (but only by driving an extremely ethical pacifist to kill him by murdering everyone who ever knew Johan existed), but one definitely also wants to end the world. These personalities conflict and overlap, its not clear cut. But if Johan is suicidal, he is suicidal in the way of mass shooters -- he cannot die without taking many others with him. Johan is also shown to see the world as mechanistic and defined by suffering and human cruelty. Its not really possible to portray 'pure nihilism' and your right, Johan has some values and beliefs -- but they are all changeable and often contradict. I think i describe Johan as nihilist (and not merely a radical pessimist) because he has not true sense of self. Its difficult to really have a beleif system if you are cycling through identities all the time. The values Johan displays at times feel like attempts of a shattered psyche to cling to something, more than genuine beleif. BUt part of the genius thing about Monster is we can only ever know Johan so well. He is a permanent cypher for the reader as much as for the other characters: we see in him what we want to see.
@@sabsain2399 you're confused. you think i made a statement about the mangaka's intention, when in fact i made a statement about what it seemed his intention may have been based on his interview statement and the content of the work itself. notice i used the phrase 'it sounds like'. this is how comparative media analysis works -- we make educated guesses based on what we observe in a work and what an author themself claims about it. i'm afraid you may be dangerously mislead: it is not necessary to actually meet and know an an author or artist to make analytical assessments of that person's work. if that were the case, it would not be possible to make almost any statement about art; media criticism would not exist. you must also remember that much of what is expressed through art is not necessarily conscious to the creator -- thus if we only based our opinions on what an author says about a work, we are in danger of abandoning our critical thinking skills and being merely un-critical fans engaging with work in a manner defined by the author. i hope i don't need to explain why this could be a problem. listen: isayama is not your friend. these characters are not your friends. he is a person who made a piece of art and that means everyone is allowed to have opinions about it. don't take it personally, make your own art and then take that personally!
I just wish the ending was clearer in regards to why Eren did what he did. Was it because he had no choice? Was it because he wanted to protect his friends by having them stop him? Or was it because he wanted to? The show basically says “all of the above”. But for me it’s never been that complicated: I still love the show, but I just don’t like eren. Simple as that.
Oh boy, an FD Signifier video! I can't wait to hear what he has to THIS BODYYYYYYYY THIS BODY HOLDING MEEEE WE ARE ETERNAL ALL THIS PAIN IS AN ILLUSION
It's been a tough ride for myself with Attack On Titan. I was a teenager when it first aired, and any teenage boys can confirm that this is a time in our lives in which we're seeking purpose, confidence, and belonging in a world which still confuses and intimidates us. Attack On Titan was a show which validated a lot of the anger I had in my heart towards my powerlessness in such a world, and it empowered my genuine desire for freedom and liberation from an all-powerful force. I really vibed with the themes of the first couple seasons, and it honestly defined a core part of my personality at the time. But as the show went on and I grew as a person, the show stopped exemplifying those themes of fighting for freedom against an oppressor. I discovered a political identity in line with my values in Communism, and Attack On Titan slowly and slowly became a show which empowers fascist and far right ideology. It truly feels like a betrayal, especially considering my undying love for the show/manga from 2013-2018-ish. I still haven't fully recovered from that feeling. Anyways, thank you for the analysis. I could talk at length about Attack On Titan and the transformation that show took.
I actually liked the way pre time slip eren was developing, he started to mature and grow tf up but damn that ending was shit 🤣. One of my favourite stories instantly destroyed out of pettiness. I really like this take.
THANK UNCLE FOR KEEPING THIS ENERGY. Because after the anime a lot of people changed up. But I’m like yeah no the writing is still not there and Isayama really pushed his character into genocide. What’s funny is, the last episode of Loki came out the same time too and Loki just like Eren was in a position of controlling the future by controlling the past. Loki kept going back for centuries in order to stop that world ending fate Erin could never.
So he wrote AOT as an immature 20 year old and it took off. He grew up and realized he's probably expected to make more highly successful Manga, but like he said, he's an idiot, who probably could never match the popularity of it, especially since he was very different from the person he used to be. So he destroyed it just so he could retire early. It sucks, but that might makes sense to me.
tbh this actually falls in line with a theory i've been thinking about for like a decade: immature blackpill weirdos and fascists sound really similar, except the blackpill guys are sad about it.
I feel this is similar to the Evangelion series. The series is adored by fans for its dark theme, religious iconography and the seeming nihilism of the anime and the subsequent movies. This was very much due to Hideaki Anno being in a dark place during production of the anime. However it's in the last movie, Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 you see Hideaki Anno was in a better place and wanted to give his fans proper closure. My hope is that AOT can maybe do something similar.
I dont think at that point he was trying to be sympathetic towards fascists, he just leaves it incredibly ambiguous because in the end its ultimately just nihilist because the fascists ended taking over and it just led to more wars and destruction afterwards. He just wanted it to end in the shittiest way he can make it, reflecting on how much he hated working on it. FD's explanation makes a lot sense and I think that probably should be the prevailing belief now when you look at the story. All the nonsensical beats ends up making too much sense after looking at it from that light.
My personal belief about the meta shit going on is that in reaction to people hounding Isayama for his personal anti-korean racism, and given the opportunity to veer in a different direction with the advent of *his editor killing their wife and awaiting trial for two years*, he changed the second half of the story. Now, if he did that to make it a self-reflective piece or if he did it to have Marley have nazi aesthetics and complicate narratives about his own racism, I don't know. What I do know is that he very, very obviously dropped whatever plotline was intended with Ymir (the contemporary Ymir, not the founding titan Ymir). Like, what the fuck was that.
So basically isayama wrote about his own real life self fulfilling prophecy of being an idiot with power. Then, he decides to fetishize his own ability to ruin it just because he can. If that’s truly the case, that means he also made the entire ending all about himself, and I think that might be some of the most corny shit ever tbh.
Its wild that Eren thought genocide was the solution I bet that if he had been successful generations in the future Eldians would have STILL been fighting each other. The minute he thought genocide was a good thing, he lost his way.
Something I noticed watching your vid FD as you were talking about Iseyama basically using Eren as a medium of his own feelings/thoughts... the kid version of Eren has the same haircut/style as Iseyama. Maybe I'm tripping but the way he draws kid eren's hair from the side profile and from the front matches his own to me. Further highlighting that possibility.
Sorry but some points come off to me as a bit miopic. I think by the end of the Manga, it’s clear that Eren is no longer the real protagonist, but actually Armin and Mikasa are the protagonists. We are forced to feel how THEY feel about having to effectively put an end to their brother/best friend/love interest for the greater good, which, despite them feeling bad about it and empathizing with basically one of their most important loved ones (remember all of them are orphans, they basically only have each other) they still fulfill their task, they still stop Eren, mikasa literally beheads him. People like to talk about how Eren goes from protagonist to antagonist to villain, but rarely do they talk about how it is clear that after the invasion on Marley, Eren isn’t really the focal point of the story. I think, in a way, the first half of the show is like the prequels of Star Wars, focusing on Anakin, and the second half is the original trilogy, focusing on Luke. Sorry but it’s a rare FD L in my opinion.
Very interesting reading. I was never someone who hated the ending as it always seemed to align with the story’s pessimistic outlook to me, but this makes even more sense and I kind of love it. A story about self hatred and seeking validation. How it causes pain and dissatisfaction to ourselves and even, maybe especially, to those that love us most.
It even justifies more cleanly Eren traumatizing himself - if Eren really is a dramatized version of a person who sees nothing good in himself so he perpetuates it by thinking it, the outcome is similar to a person who literally fated himself to be a horrible villain that wanted power.
@@iantaakalla8180if eren was a good character, as in a guy who sees good in the world, he would have been what thorfinn is in vinland saga. Deciding to let go of your past and hatred and start anew. He could have abandoned the war entirely and lived peacefully for a short while(like in mikasa's dreams).
Another great video FD, and a theory that really makes a lot of sense. Hearing how Iseyama talks about the series reminds me of this quote from BoJack Horseman: “I remember when I won my Oscar, standing up on that stage, looking at the statue, and I thought, ‘This is supposed to be the happiest moment of my life and I never felt more miserable. [...] Sometimes you need to take responsibility for your own happiness. [...] I’m happy for the first time in my life, and I’m not gonna feel bad about it. It takes a long time to realise how truly miserable you are, and even longer to see that it doesn’t have to be that way." It sounds like to me that Iseyama realized that achieving his dream didn't make him happy like he hoped, but instead of self-reflection, he decided to self-sabotage.
Going to read AoT again to refresh my brain before i dive into this and catch up with some of your other related vids, but just want to pay respects to the blessed Tool and the right honurable Parabol/Parabola
If you don't mind me asking... how long would it take you to reread it? The way you said it it sounded like its only gonna take you a couple of hours or something😭 it takes me forever to finish reading stuff
@@juuuu0 oh i wish. no this is going to be a check back in on this video in about a months time, maybe more.. But no doubt it'll be worth the wait, and the refresher :) Re-reading AoT has been on the to do list for a while, especially now the show has finale'd
Does anyone else think it’s pretty clear that Eren is supposed to be a villain by the end of the story? And the Yaegerists winning is supposed to be the unfortunate reality of the story reflecting the real world. We’re not supposed to be happy that they ended up in power though. Also the reason he couldn’t use the gear was because it was sabotaged. So actually it was impressive that he even ended up being able to balance on it.
ngl I understand the disappointment people have with eren's character but he was literally always like this. always selfish, always reactionary and emotional, always had this weird deep fucked up-ness about him, all the signs from the beginning were there. ever since that episode when he wakes up from his first titan transformation and he was like "you're all gonna die" I was like oh there's something deeply fucked up about him that we'll find out later. like literally killed two grown men as a child lmao. I thought it was interesting seeing a character go through so much development to then reject that development for his own personal goals. obviously, not everyone is going to like that choice and I totally understand why. but personally, I saw him as more of a sprouting Light Yagami than some righteous anti-hero.
YEEEEESSSSS!! It pisses people of because Eren is still remembered by his friends at the end but it makes sense for them to do so despite the horrendous acts he committed because they grew up with him. It's like in the movie "We need to talk about Kevin", Kevin does some things in that movie but his mother still loves him at the end. Some people are very sensitive and don't like ambiguity when depicting controversial actions which is why western media is usually very safe and comforting
@@LuisSierra42 it honestly reminds me of old greek tragedies that end so absurdly but make sense because the absurdity of humans knows no bounds. like yes, it doesn't make sense that Ymir would love the king, it doesn't make sense that eren would start the rumbling, it doesn't make sense that characters we once knew and love became fascist and openly celebrated it. people do not make sense. we find ourselves trapped in this cycle of endlessly doing terrible things to each other, in the "forest" like sasha's dad describes. I think that whole scene with sasha's family says to you exactly what the story is trying to say. we must get out of the forest, get the children out of the forest, save ourselves for the better. you can even see sasha's family side-eyeing the fascists. is the story, narratively, promoting these ideas? personally, I don't think so. I think the show went out of its way to show you the horrors of these characters' bad decisions, the bad things that have happened to them, does that make those bad things justifiable? no. the story shows more than tells imo and if you need it to scream "fascism is bad" at you more than it already did for you understand that, then idk what else to say bc I sure got the message.
This actually made AOT more interesting. From listening to this it made me think more of art. Just an expression...a genuine experience even if it is not ideal. What is expected from story telling? What about rap? Is it just to satisfy others? Sometimes all the hype can stifle the enjoyable process of creating something then being stuck in that for one 10 years 😱!? I have ADHD though 😅
@@LuisSierra42 Frankly, "ambiguity" is overrated. We already have more than enough if it in the real world. The least we could have is something a little more concrete and definite from our art every once in a while. That's not the same thing as being spoon-fed exactly what we want to hear and never be challenged (I also have problems with the concept of "challenge," but that's for another time); instead, we have a clearer sense of where things are going, how things will end, and what conclusions we can draw as a result of our experience with art. Furthermore, the way artists, in particular, use ambiguity is, more often than not, sloppy and mishandled rather than profound or illuminating, this anime being a textbook case of just how bad it can get.
@@miro.georgiev97 You are definitely entitled to your own opinion but it seems to me that you should stick to children's shows and movies if you only want straightforward and unambiguous stuff
@@LuisSierra42 Uh, I never said I want _only_ straightforward and unambiguous stuff. Did you miss the "every once in a while"? That's not equivalent to "only one kind of thing ever." I like my moral ambiguity and philosophical depth as much as the next person, but I'm not so pretentious as to dismiss the straightforward and unambiguous out of hand because there's value in that kind of media, _too._
I finally pressed play eventhough i got the notification for this video 5 days ago. Thats how much this show has rented space in my mind. I was like "i can't watch this video on AOt without being ready to remember this freaking thing that took 10 years to finis" lol. Anyway, looking foward to your options.
27:53 imagine if Miura just kept Guts a damaged edgelord and was drawing out his fears rather than addressing them. All of the muck with none of the redemption. That happens enough irl, I don't need manga for that inspo lmao
@@RyomenAyeni225 there is a loud group on opposite ends of the spectrum that either think the endjng is great or terrible who still talk loudly and argue about it, where as those in the middle who agree that the ending isnt good have all just quietly retired from even interacting with AoT because of how exhausting it is
So happy you made a video on this! When I first watched the ending I felt so empy inside and told my bf that it sucked and that I was dissapointed. The only time I felt something is when I *spoilers ahead* thought connie and jean were going to be titans. Tiktok also had a huge influence on how I felt after which made me feel more sympathetic to Eren because he was literally a dumb kid. Your use of comparing him to thanos made so much sense. Now I feel like I just mourn who Eren was before he turned into an edgelord freak. I was so sad to see him change into what he did.
I’ll always go back to the argument that it’s not the artist’s job to control how their work is received and that art doesn’t need to have Disney perfect endings where the good guys are vindicated. Rather, we can see depictions of evil for what they are and analyze them
I can agree with this and also have the perspective that AoT was poorly written. I don't think most people critiquing AoT are doing so because the ending isn't Disney enough.
Resonance of Banksy destroying a painting at auction or Harvey Dent's speech about living long enough to see yourself become the villain seem apt. Like it was pointed out in the video, it would be almost TOO ingenious for the author to have planned it from the outset because even that gives, weirdly, elevates his work as having the intended effect. Of course, maybe the fact that there is discourse about him landing the plane at the destination, in a way, is his own form of redemption because it allows him to effectively get what he's always wanted...OR (worse) unintentionally creates an explanation for the work's genius. Talk about potentially getting mind-farked...did he want us to feel betrayed, or can he now claim that he wanted us to feel betrayed all along? Either way, he wins...right?
With the revelation that Eren's self-doubt is a reflection of Isayama's self-doubt, here's a new perspective on Attack on Titan. In both the story and on a meta level, AoT becomes a cautionary tale about the danger of self-doubt, impostor syndrome, self-sabotage etc. Eren had the power of a god which allowed him to both see the future and directly influence past events. However, he used it for a dreadful plan because, in his words, he saw himself as "a garden-variety idiot who got his hands on power." In the same vein, Isayama was overwhelmed by the success of his story and sabotaged the ending. I can't tell you how many times I've personally fucked up opportunities due to the same kind of self-doubt. If such self-doubt can flatten 80% of the world, or completely destroy an otherwise phenomenal story, that's enough of a caution against letting self-doubt/sabotage consume you.
I think you're mostly, if not just pretty much right on your interpretations of the ending. Eren being Isayama is really what ties things up. In regards to the slave to freedom bit. Whenever you introduce time travel shit things stop making logical sense in the traditional way, but I think what isayama was going for was that once eren Saw the future, he was seeing the actions that "eren" as his full self would take, based on who he is. he was spectating the story, without being able to change anything. Difficult to explain, but it's sort of like how dr. Manhattan in watchment experiences time simultaneously in the future and the past but acts in paradoxical ways in the moment as if he doesn't know what's about to happen, despite actually knowing what is going to happen. In essense, Eren only doesn't have a choice because the type of character Eren cultivated for himself would never stop the rumbling. If he was a better person, this eren would have found a way, but the eren that takes all the actions was a slave to freedom, and freedom being an open world with all his enemies flattened. It's sort.of a contradiction of free will. Eren does have a choice, but eren wouldn't make that choice, because that's not who eren is. Hopefully that makes sense.
I think the presence of the ambiguity really makes it feel real as to how it showcases that well, i feel that Isayama does not want take sides with anybody in the character’s ideology at all. Most of the anime’s message is all up to interpretation and as an anime trying to achieve that, it definitely delivered. Opposed to giving the best answers, it doesn’t give any bits of what is righteous when it comes to big conflicts.
For me, it’s hard to hate AOT since it was my first anime so my nostalgia for it is super high 8 will always love it to some degree but honestly, I feel like time skip was a mistake. Isayama basically expanded the world by 100 times yet the amount of chapters time skip has is way less then pre timeskip(which was a way smaller world). I don’t know, I just feel like the time skip conflict needed to be flesh out waaayyy more and hate how contrived the conflict is.
Us nerds have to get our shit together mentally. Many of us have beaten the jocks, gotten success and some even have gotten the girl(s) and/or boy(s). But we're not seeing the bigger picture. Stop turning success into existential dread lol. And if you don't like the games life plays after you won it, don't just bitch about it; change it for the next person up.
This. I make tattoos and if I tried to stay too dog after 20 years there would be nobody to teach the kids that what to learn today.
Nerds winning turned society into the shitter
@@epicotakugamer4930 Nerds winning gave everything this tinge of bitterness. I can't fully wrap my head around why. If I had to guess, many nerds didn't expect to be doing as well as they are, and there is a cognitive dissonance between their expectations and reality. Still speculating, but maybe they've over narrativized their lives, and no matter how many times you tell them "You're good, you've made it", they can't believe that people don't hate them, and they're one mistake away from getting shoved in a locker.
Conversely, in the "Jock Era" from post WWII up until the 1980s (with a break for economic crisis in the 70s), these guys expected to win every step of the way. American exceptionalism, the Great Man of History theory, Ayn Rand, the Me Generation and so on. They were bad but in a very different way. There was and still isn't a single shred of doubt in those people's minds that they're good and everything they do is good just because it's them acting on their desires.
TL;DR: Capitalism has picked a new ubermensch archetype with different, but still terrible results
@@TheMagnanimousMany These are some very awesome comments!
@@TheMagnanimousMany Because what spreads I suppose, is a state of mind, not a state of affairs. Nerds won but that doesn't change what they feel or how they think, its like still being an incel after you had sex. It was never about the sex, it was all the mental and emotional baggage.
Its like FD talking about Drake - he won but he still acts super insecure and try-hard.
There's so many people with so much money and power who are so clearly in dire need of therapy and taking it out on the world, and its exhausting.
Someone on reddit said that authors keep trying to write about racism, but give the racial minorities special powers that only *they* can use, thereby giving the people in-universe a more legitimate reason to be fearful/racist than fascists in real have ever had. I just thought that was an interesting point.
I feel this way towards the movie Elemental. They try to make a racism allegory but their literary pure elements. Of course pure fire beings are going to be discriminated against because they burn everything they touch.
They all should've been one type of being (human/elves/trolls/ect) with Elemental powers. Then it would make sense.
I'm reading that as well and it really only elucidates how thin the understanding of racism is. Disliking a racial group is racism only when there is a power element.
This is why people from dominant racial groups almost ALWAYS hold the completely incorrect view presented in the take we've heard.
This view of racism says ANYONE can be a racist. Power has nothing to do with it. Just personal feelings towards someone. It's obvious why people from powerful groups would prefer this incorrect view. It makes racism something anyone can individually be guilty of and thus absolves dominant racial groups altogether.
Is fear a legitimate response? Or is that a further commentary on real-world dynamics? Also, why give af?
@@nathanbedfordforestnonsense. Racism can exist separate of any power dynamic. Its about that persons inner world and beliefs/prejudices. I say this as a black guy who was beaten in the street at age 12 while bring called a N. Just following your logic through will lead you to not recognize racism where it might otherwise actually exist and say there IS racism where there is none and the truth is more nuanced.
Doesn't X-Men do the same thing?
Another thing that always bothered me about the ending is the treatment of the women in the cast. What do you mean Ymir was in love with her abuser??? Why did Historia just randomly fall in love with her childhood bully and lose all plot significance?! Worst is Mikasa, who seemed like she could finally let go of Eren and move on with her life. But nah, she's still obsessed with him. Hurts to see.
The Ymir plot twist and Isayama’s comments about Ymir being a parallel to Mikasa despite Historia being the obvious parallel make this so much more worse too. Not only is Ymir somehow in love with a man who has caused nothing but misery and pain in her life that left her with trauma that passed down through all the generations of her people, but taking that and somehow making Mikasa reflective of that and (maybe inadvertently) framing Eren as her King Fritz/abuser and her still loving him for it, alongside him making Historia’s ending reflective of Ymir where she falls in love with her childhood bully just makes this 100x worse
Like he had the opportunity to do something profound and give Historia some kind of plot relevance after sidelining her and turning her into a red herring, but in the end its pretty obvious that he did not know how to follow through on the connection with Ymir and Historia and ended up writing a terribly tone-deaf and misogynistic ending for them both where the victim of slavery/child abuse/SA is now the one who is at fault because of her love for her abuser dooming not only her people to go down this path, but also the death of 80% of all of humanity just adds another layer to how awful this ending was, and just cemented that he doesnt know how to write women at all unless it is in the context of their role to the men in their lives and in the story
MIKASA DESERVES BETTER 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Doesn't Mikasa end up with Jean and they have children, like you can clearly see them visit Eren's grave in the credits?
@@blaze2690 i mean, Mikasa bringing her kids to visit the grave of her first love who committed genocide and then having them continue to visit his grave like some family tradition even after she dies doesnt really dispel her still being obsessed with him
As someone who suffers from clinical lifelong depression and autism, im not proud to admit but i can almost understand isayama/erens viewpoint to a tee. As im slowly moving up in my professional career and gaining social competence/trust from people, theres always an impostor self to me that honestly curses people for putting more trust and responsibility in me because my low sense of self and legitimately pathetic past can seem so divergent from the person I am today that people have hope in. But i also recognize that this is where power and responsibility comes. To self sabotage and leave your whims to the winds of chance is one of the most laziest things a man can ever do. I feel its important for impressionable youth to understand this. In a way it slightly reminds me of the biblical story of the man who hid his talents and did nothing fruitful with what he was given. Hope this take made some sense, if any.
As someone similar to what you've written here, this "being the best version of yourself" and not giving in to the despair, misanthropy and isolation is so exhausting.
Like, I want to just hide from the world and do nothing but I also want to be loved and have friends, but I can't do both. And when I try to date and I put this 'best foot forward' it feels like I'm a fraud, like I'm lying and like I just want someone to love the mess and chaos and nothing inside me, but nobody ever will nor should they. When you feel this stuff inside you as the real you somehow, and know it'll never be embraced, you resent that fact, and you get angry and feel hopeless.
I used to think you could spoon-feed the 'real you' to people overtime but they ALWAYS run away long before the real me is fully revealed and it hurts more than I can say.
It just feels so unfair, like we have to do so much extra work and live a total lie, just to be loved or even hope to be loved, and I don't know what to do, ya know? The edgelord omnicide stuff in anime is so relatable sometimes... but its almost definitionally dumb so like, what else is there left?
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 that seems like quite a pain in the ass for you to deal with. All I can say is, I believe things will get better for you.
@@samsprague3158 i doubt it. I'm not that young and the world isn't that hopeful anymore. There's kinda no time left, ya know?
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 I may be wrong, but what's worked for me is having a long term goal to orient myself towards the person I truly want to be in private and in society, but in a human way that doesnt hold myself to impossible standards. And I work hard to be consistent with my social and private life in a healthy way. I'm not afraid to tell people what I do in my spare time, but that took a while. And ive built habit over time to do at least one personally productive task in a day, which transformed to multiple and so on. It's a constant struggle and I fall alot. I'm still mentally a wreck and exhausted emotionally. I'm just about homeless now for circumstances out of my direct control, but I stay happy laughing and productive because I know what I'm capable of. I make friends but also more naysayers and enemies so to speak. But it allows me to speak my mind more easily and stay out of my head in social situations. And in this fucked up society I actually think just being candid and real in a healthy way makes people appreciate you more and see you as human. The reality seems to be that almost everyone is socially sick and the world needs more real people with heart
@@satyasyasatyasya5746 You've got everything you need. RUclips has great mental health tips videos that help think about your depression and hopelessness in another way. We my never be loved but I've found being my authentic self 24/7 (or as much as I can manage) frees me from the fraud feeling. And some people did leave when I started opened up... fuck em! Some people noticed me being real more and complemented me these past few months.
Just wanted to wade in here to point out the depiction of Ymir (titan progenitor) totally tracks w/ this. In Eren’s vision, each time that someone activates their titan powers, she’s forced to spend what’s depicted as months, years maybe, crafting their titan bodies out of sand. Those who call on their titan powers are unaware of this.
It’s an incredibly affecting scene, and a nightmarish realization of the toll that the obsession with titan powers is taking on a single person, enslaved for eternity to reproducing these beings for people who are ignorant to the unfathomable cost.
If that’s not a self-insert for the exhaustion and despair of Isayama then I should throw all my close reading skills out the window. It’s as literal a punch-in-the-face “look at what I do for all of you” statement as it gets.
It also completely jives with everything FD points out. All the time we wonder how all this will play out, how the political machinations sway to and fro, *but really it’s all about freeing the enslaved author/artist of titans*. Instead of being affecting, it comes off as kinda whiny and shitty, which sucks.
To be CLEAR, none of that invalidates what I’m sure is a very thankless position of feeling misunderstood/trapped by their work. But the way it’s delivered, as the plight of this one person being more important than the OMNICIDE OF BILLIONS is just really, really gross.
damn FD, you never fail to bring me new insight.
It’s also worth noting that despite being a monthly series (as compared to a weekly one), Isayama never took so little as a break/hiatus. Like most mangaka take a week or month off every once in a while, whether it be to protect their health (that’s a very real recurring problem), or take extra time on upcoming color pages or tankobon volume art, or even just play some Apex (looking at you, Aka Akasaka of Kaguya-sama and Oshi no Ko fame). Not Isayama though. The publisher Kodansha really made a point of emphasizing that as AOT ended. If you have ANY issue of Bessatsu Shonen Magazine from when the magazine itself was started in September 2009 to til April 2021, it is 100% guaranteed to have a chapter of Attack on Titan in it.
Damn
How are yall so fucking weird to hate isayama
Ymir suffers that’s it
@@people2chronically-onlinehe wasted our time. There have been fans since 2009(manga) and 2013(anime). There is zero excuse for this.
@@nightwishisthegreatestband6355 he wasted your time by making Ymir craft titans?
Broke: Iseyama is a fascist
Kinda Woke: Iseyama thinks fascism is cringe
Fully Woke: Iseyama thinks HE is cringe
This but unironically.
Q
He's probably just a troll. Owe Bol of manga
Nah hes DEFINITELY fascist. The man openly supported the reinstitution of the Japanese Imperial Order as the primary governing body of Japan
@@scottbuck1572 No strong evidence of such
Satire without condemnation is a guide.
Not untrue. But in this context, I'd call it a lamentation. Isayama isn't trying to show people how to fascism. He doesn't believe they could avoid it if they wanted to. Very sad.
@@michaelblakemutschler594
It makes me think of a Jordan Peterson clip I saw from the "Some More News" video on him. He was talking about a test for US soldiers in WWII that he misunderstood as saying that people with 85 IQ or below have nothing to contribute to the military. He then says that the military is about as complicated as the rest of society so if those people can't contribute to the military then they also have no hope of contributing to the rest of society. Now, all of these illogical extrapolations lead him to say "So what do you do with these people if they can't function in society?" And he says that there's a dark path we shouldn't go down but he can't think of anything else to help these people.
When he's talking about that "dark path" he means some Aktion T4 Nazi Eugenics shit. That's the only path he can see but he has (or had at the time he said this) enough empathy to be horrified by this thought and want something else. He can only see that particular solution (to a problem he made up, mind you) because he has shut himself off from the possibility of something like, say, just supporting those people without expecting them to return a profit.
His brain is so drenched in colonialist, eugenicist, and anti-communist propaganda that it leads him only to fascistic outcomes. This rubs up against the better angels of his nature that recognize how awful that would be, leading to an honestly apocalyptic sense of dread and doom. How long can you live in fear of the apocalypse before you learn to welcome it? At least then this tension will be released, one way or another.
I've been in a similar depressive headspace before and my conclusion is that you can either learn how to breakdown these reactionary limits in your mind and embrace a more left-leaning worldview, or you give in and just become a fascist.
Wolf of Wall Street does not condemn Jordan Belfort.
In an interview with Timothee Chalamet, Martin Scorsese basically said that he didn't get why people were critizing him for not condoning his acts when, in his words: "Do i need to tell you explicitly that's wrong?"
@cesarmartorano6903 Well there's a subtle but important nuance between implicitly (like Scorcese did) condemning something, by relying on assumed shared values for example, and not condemning it at all. And even leaning into it and giving it legitimacy and importance in the general discourse.
You know what? Let me take this comment section to vent (emphasis on the vent). I was anime only and when the story took its turn away from just monster spectacle to social/political commentary in S3, I was definitely one of the ones who 1) peeped all of the now very blatant allusions to Japanese nationalism/imperialism/statism (an aside, while Isayama definitely takes some inspo from the treatment of Jewish ppl in the Holocaust in the depiction of the Eldians, I always saw that as mostly aesthetics. As far as the political allegory goes, the Eldians read to me as a stand-in for Japan/Japanese people, mixing in elements of Japanese isolationism, military expansion and imperialism, and forced "de-militarization" at the hands of other powers leading to a dizzying combination of victimhood, denialism, revisionism, and a desire for rearmament being a major thread of modern hyperconservative Japanese politics) and 2) had to tell myself to wait and see where it all went.
And my reaction? Isayama spent a whole lot of time and energy just to balk and end up saying nothing about any of the political/social criticisms he touched on, apart from the very banal observation that racism/xenophobia is bad. But to the questions the story raises about how should we address the ramifications of that racism/xenophobia in the world? Hot air. Best he has is Eren saying at the end "idk but I guess we can all agree now that omnicide isn't it!" Is diplomacy the answer then? Probably not considering that the former Survey corps are effectively diplomats and the credits show the world falling into war and destruction after their envoy to talk with the Jaegerists. You could argue that the cyclical nature then is the point, that war and hatred is never ending, but that flies in the face of the character development for most of the principle cast so that can't be it, either. Just an absolute dodging of having to say anything of substance on those matters.
Personally, I don't buy the idea that he ruined the ending on purpose. I think the more likely answer is that he bit off much more than he could chew trying to tackle such heavy themes. I think the popularity of AOT really did make him uncomfortable, because it invited a lot of eyes from AROUND the world onto his story that was meant to just reflect his narrow perspective re: war, discrimination, and peacemaking .(Re: "narrow", if we take him as Eren as a valid reading--and I personally do--he basically says as much since Eren explicitly calls himself an ignorant idiot at the end.) But he was suddenly positioned as a "serious" critic on those issues with some insight to share because of the unexpected popularity of the anime. So instead of ending with something that can be seen as a coherent argument on those matters that others can hold him to, he chickened out, wasting both his time and mine
The fact that your handle is @realtalk is accurate af
I think you're right in saying Isayama bit off more than he could chew but it's almost like that's kind of the point. Going off the lines of the video Isayama's main character is a middle finger to himself in that the manga is his shitty answer to the world's problems.
There was an early interview where Isayama said that he wanted to convey a certain feeling of being a bystander to a friend committing horrific violence, unable to completely condemn it but still horrified. And I instantly thought it was a huge insight into the story -- that Eren isn't so much the protagonist as the object to whom we are standing beside, as he shows how much of a monster he is (starting with his double homicide at 9 years old, continuing to when he becomes a literal monster Titan) and this interview was circa season 3 of the anime, he hadn't even entered his aloof spree killer era yet. And then the manga ending puts it to words when Armin thanks Eren for the Rumbling. If this is the thesis of Attack on Titan, it makes sense why Isayama spends so much time honoring both sides of the "fight" or "talk" dichotomy, and refuses to take a deeper position -- his intention is to convey the feeling from sitting on that fence
@@kevinbroberg3504Trying to find the interview now, that is so damn enlightening
AoT isn’t about anything more than fence sitting
Shitty exposition as well at the end, Annie saying “Armin do you really think we can be diplomats” cut to the audience seeing that that doesn’t work out at all
It’s interesting that Isayama also compares himself to Reiner, Reiner and the others don’t in anyway get a satisfactory ending with them all just put on a boat
“Umm… fuck… what to do with these other characters… They went on to be diplomats! That’s my story, bye bye”
Some of your criticisms are understandable and we are all entitled to our opinions, but I trully don't get why the cycle of war and strife couldn't be the point. It is the point. The point is there is no solution, but it's still WORTH it to try to work towards peace anyway despite knowing it will never last forever.
You may disagree with it, or think it's a useless observation, and that's perfectly fine. But there's really no need to say "the story avoided saying anything". Because it did.
Honestly, I'm impressed when a main character is NOT a self insert of the author. Self inserts are not inherently bad but there is a reason why they're discouraged. Unless the author has explored and RESOLVED their personal issues it's just gonna bleed into their work in the worst way. The fact that Eren had no rhyme or reason to his decision making makes total sense bc it doesn't seem like Isayama did either. It sucks even more because everything seemed so well structured story-wise UNTIL the end, which is when the decision making went haywire for both the main character and its author.
It went haywire for you (and the others who were dissatisfied). There are people who were able to predict the way it ended because they were able to see what the intention was so for those people the ending made total sense
It would have made more sense I think if towards the end Eren's mind was corrupted/poisoned by the previous attack titans, which led to his nonsensical actions. And add more plot devices to make it so that Eren wanted his friends to kill him as soon as possible before he commits global genocide.
It would stay true to Eren's relationship with freedom, and it would hammer down on the theme that war is bad by having Eren try to actively avoid it within his control. It would've also played more on themes of militarised indoctrination, like we see with Gabi, as something tragic. Because militarised indoctrination in story telling can be depicted as this mind controlled version of Eren I'm talking about.
It wouldn't be perfect tho, you could just write Eren without having him become a monster
@@Itchy__ what exactly was nonsensical about Eren's actions? If you watch the very first episode, you'll see this was foreshadowed from the very beginning
@@LuisSierra42 The future destruction and tragedy that ensued were foreshadowed. But not the fact that it was Eren himself who would orchestrate and commit those tragedies.
@@Itchy__ WHAT!! At the end of the very first episode Eren says "I'll kill every single one of them" which was just the first hint at his extreme positions and then throughout season 1 we just keep seeing little hints like this such as Mikasa's backstory where Eren literally stabs a man to death and other characters jokingly saying that "Eren will one day destroy the world". I invite you to rewatch AoT and see for yourself, all of the things I mentioned happen in like the first 5 episodes.
As lame as this sounds, I think everyone is a little right and little wrong about what this is all about
Iseyama admitted that he could have made a happier ending where things worked out better and the heroes successfully stop Eren earlier on, but he felt it wouldn't be appropriate for how the story was building up.
In the end, Iseyama was feeling depressed and looked at the world around him as constant cycles of conflict and hurt people hurting people, and he wanted to make a story showing that, and that you need to take in the nice moments throughout to appreciate life itself and to keep existing.
He even has Erwin say in S3 "The world will never know peace until the human population is down to 1 or fewer"
And while MAYBE we can progress globally to be more accepting of one another, recent events show it's a difficult and SEEMINGLY impossible task.
However, I would say you're definitely right about Iseyama using Eren specifically as a conduit for his impostor syndrome, and I love how much it pissed off fascist fans lmao
I loved the way AoT ended but I have to admit that I usually do feel like a nihilistic misanthrope and I was very much aware that Isayama felt the same way which just strengthened my para social connection with him. I simply can't see a world where things will be fine for the majority of people
So the answer is genocide?😂
@@thedangerwich5476 The answer AoT gives you is that there is no answer. It is up to you to make sense of what happens in the same way that you would have to make sense of the conflicts that are currently going on like Israel vs Gaza or Russia vs Ukraine
@@thedangerwich5476 the answer is to not indoctrinate your children with the belief that they aren't good enough and love them unconditionally. That's the very obvious them in AOT.
@@D14MBKlol good luck, guess it’ll all be sorted soon then, because people raised in happy homes NEVER have the same fucked up drives that have plagued humans since the dawn of history…
My sweet summer child… reality isn’t like fiction. The bad guys don’t always have compelling motivations- people are just like this, and it’s never going to go away.
I know it'll probably never happen, but I'd love to see this level of analysis in a my hero academia review about violence and systemic violence and masculinity
begging on my knees for this exact thing. My Hero Academia is probably in the end spurt of its run and it will be incredibly interesting where it ends
This and a take on Horikoshi's writing on how heteromorphs are othered for their appearance; even after people start accepting people with quirks and how being the "respectable one" is the answer is something I really want to hear a take on.
@ethanmoore5325 yes, because there's some heteromorhps or partial heteromorphs that get passes like Mirko and Hawks, but people like Gang Orca (who's heavily black coded) gets cast as villain looking. Funny enough FD just made that interracial relationship video and about mixed people and those characters seem to be analogous to being mixed. Whereas full on mutants are casted as bad people from the jump and literally get l*nched and have segregation laws. I'd love to see the break down of this
[Incoming spoilery MHA animu discussion!]
.
.
.
.
.
The one thing that I find both interesting and sad in MHA, as someone who only watches, (other than the fact that they kiiinda missed out on basically an opportunity for a "perfect ending" with the fight after Shigaraki wakes up) is that this show seems to have backpedalled on some of its themes.
For the first couple of seasons, you know, through to the Stain Arc and the fallout from the confrontation with All For One etc... the story seems to be building towards kind of exposing All Might's idea of a perfect world where he personifies justice and whatnot as being BS. There's a lot riding on the dangers of idealising him, the discrepancy with the person he really is and the obvious question of "what happens when he's not there, if we made him the lodestone of civilisation?"
The story seems to be more and more saying that is not a good way to do things. But then it seems like it just kind of decides All Might is beyond reproach after all. So it backpedals on that whole angle just super hard. That is not only the way to be and Deku WILL be the super duper one hero to rule them all and in the darkness bind them, but also because Endeavour is person who's in that position right now, the story just has to REALLY abruptly make him "a good guy, actually, don't worry about it" (even if later on "the mistakes of the past" seem to come haunt him and whatnot).
I feel like the story lost a lot of its potential in that, as it tries really desperately to not only keep scaling infinitely but also making Deku the most specialest boy
@VileLasagna hey sorry for such a late reply. But to sum it up.
That IS the point.
The way things have been going have been wrong and doing so made people complacent. The teachers even talk about this when discussing the possibilities of a traitor in UA.
That's what the whole point of Lady Nagant and Hawks characters are. Idolizing heroes and not seeing the shades of Grey in the world.
It would be nice to have a symbol of peace but not the system is incredibly flawed that children have to be at the center of stopping the catalyst of societies doing via the league of villains... especially Dabi, toga, shiggy, spinner, and Co.
It's not back pedaling, it's making that logical connection.
The whole endeavor thing is a very very very nuanced conversation on the Japanese household and eugenics and contributing to society. Something I csnt speak much on but some awesome people on Twitter have made awesome threads on. I can't link them rn, but if I ever find it. I'll come back.
But a tldr; no, it's not back pedaling, that's been the goal the whole time. Hinted at via deku idolozing AM too much and talked about how hero society got too lax and the whole shiggy plot line. It's addressing those things fairly often, even in the most recent season.
I'm a caught up manga reader so I know all the spoilers.
All lamentation and controversy aside, at least it IS over. Dragon Ball is still limping along as a pale shade when Toriyama was ready for it to be done 30 years ago.
So what I'm getting from this whole debacle is that Eren/Isayama tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it didn't even matter.
Isayama really does just seem like a doomer to be honest. I feel like he just looked at world history from a zoomed out lense, and wrote about the cycle of war, oppression, and most importantly, blowback. The “connected” world leaders in the AOT series all collectively keep the Eldians contained and convinced they are a threat. And with the history of Ymir, we can see that at one point, they were. The Royal family took a vow of peace, and through intentional masquerading of the truth, the current generation of Eldians don’t remember (and also have nothing to do with) the oppression of their ancestors. And this in its own way is profound. We can see many nations that fought for independence, and now have become the oppressors, or vice versa in the real world. The scales of power are always shifting.
Admittedly I haven’t watched the last two episodes so I might be missing some context, but even when Eren is proud of his father killing the royal family (or coercing him into it?) the tone of the show makes it seem like we should feel in horror. The audience shouldn’t agree with Zeke, but in that moment, we should almost feel just as scared of Eren as he does. And Floch is the ultimate loser. I have a hard time feeling like anyone actually likes the dude in general, even in the show LOL. Hanji seems to want diplomacy and definitely seems like the most well intentioned character, but part of the story does feel like, sometimes even good intentions from entire factions are not enough. And maybe that is the crux of the message. Maybe Isayama realizes that there is no such thing as true freedom. True freedom to him is being alone, and not being perceived. And the story is just realizing that as long as more than one person inhabits this world, conflicts will happen. And that’s why he should feel like an idiot. Isayama and Eren probably both realized that no matter how bad it gets, no matter how much hatred you have pent up, the worst case scenario is foolish. He solved nothing, and made everything worse because they both hate sitting with how insignificant they feel in the grand scheme of things. The reference to feeling like cattle is significant. That feeling of being small, and feeling helpless as governments and hierarchies spread their poison. Or being actively on the defensive against people attacking you for reasons you can’t even comprehend. It’s a pressure cooker for radicals just like the real world.
So yes, I think this piece is Doomer, nihilistic, and hopeless, but it’s an interesting piece of fiction nonetheless. It shows the other side of revolution. It shows why authoritarianism is a response sometimes. It doesn’t mean it’s right, but we do have to wrestle with the fact that there are people who identify with an Eren because of conditions in the world. And that’s the scariest theme of this entire work.
He’s a realist not a doomerist, yall love to mislead but doomerism and realism aren’t at all the same
Honestly, with how the world is going right now, same Isayama. Like, I'm sure hope or just the will to survive is what's keeping us going at this point but it does just seem we're destined to make the same mistakes again and again.
What you are describing in your second sentence is the historical practice of longue duree, which (among other things) looks at long periods of human history to make their points. If all you have to offer for analyzing a long period of history is a "cycles" narrative then you did bad history. Contexts are constantly changing and good commentary on history can move beyond superficial "cycles".
All this to say that AoT is bad historical commentary, among other things.
Hey, someone that finally gets it!
@@yserareborn
"then you did bad history"
Ok, then what? Yes contexts are constantly changing, but most of those contexts can be seen as arbitrary in the grand scheme of human history itself, leading these contexts to form a cycle.
As a huge TOOL fan, longtime viewer of your main channel, and AOT ending hater, this vid holds special significance to me. Thank you bro
I almost put this on the main channel cause I had so much fun with this vision. I'm happy you like it too
The track selection and placement was *chef's kiss*.
I knew I recognized that riff when I heard it in the beginning
19:11 This whole section is stupid
He was set up by the commander, he also died saving armin. He also became something good because of his dad
19:45 those are all bad guys
20:04 YEPP all bad guys
@@people2chronically-onlineare you the people in your name? You on every comment lil bro, touch grass 😂
Princess Weeks was right about Danaerys the whole time. You did it again with Eren Yaeger. Will SOMEBODY start listening to Black/Brown media critics, please 😂?!
What did she say about danaerys?
@afrosamourai400 She said a lot, lol. When I searched, I found 2 videos from 4 years ago:
'Game of Thrones' Sucks Now, You Say?
And
What is Dany's 'Madness?'
But I'm pretty sure she was speaking up as early as Season 3, when Dany Whyte Saviored Astopor and Mereen with absolutely NO plan (or cultural context) for the people and places she just changed forever 😂
What does listening to critics do tho?
@@watermage25opens your eyes to the flaws or strengths you might not see in a piece of media. It challenges the media to stand up for itself. Multiple reasons.
Not with that attitude.
Now that I think about it, Armin and Eren's conversation is very disappointing compared to Armin's conversations with Bertolt. In those conversations, Armin tried to appeal to Bertolt's humanity and then when that didn't work, he tried to get under his skin by lying about how Annie is being tortured.
But the interesting thing about it is that Armin was trying to basically deescalate a situation before realizing that he's talking to a racist person who views him as a "devil" and says things like "If I agree to talk, will you all agree to die?" and "That's the way things are because I decided it".
To me, Bertolt's stubbornness and appeal to fate and "the way things are" when justifying his destructive actions are a perfect parallel to Eren and his desire to destroy the world. I think that Armin, knowing Eren could still stop the Rumbling, should've used what he learned from his conversations with Bertolt against Eren. Not to tease him or talk him down but to really get under his skin to get the upper hand.
Armin should've been more cruel
its truly jarring seeing Armin, who many saw as the moral compass of AoT ending up forgiving his genocidal friend and not only being complicit in his genocide but also thanking him and saying he wont let what he did go to waste and in the end playing an active part in what Eren did
Hard agree smh
Eren couldn't stop the rumbling what were you even reading?
What could armin say to be more cruel?
@@pilferedbrimley657 why cuz he just felt like it? bro had the coordinate and saw the future and his only excuse for not stopping it is cuz "im stupid" 😭
If anything i like how the ending protrayed Eren specifically in the end. While his influence on the story and characters may still be that of someone to be admired or misunderstood we as the audience have no conflict with who Eren actually is. It is outright stated by himself that he's an idiot who committed genocide because he wanted to and had the power to.
The message is clear (at least to me) that he's a fraud and always has been. In that way, he's an excellent critique of the alt right and their characteristics.
A lot of aot fans are younger and may look up to alt right online figures like andrew tate and sneako, etc. For Eren to be a fictional adaption of their ideology but then turn out to be a dumb fool the entire time might make fans of him and the ideology he represents call them into question.
Thats doubtful. Young alt-right types don't have the best media literacy skills.
I agree that Eren looks like a genocidal maniac villain at the climax of the story. What’s alarming is how many readers still see him as a morally justified hero. The story was pretty explicit about Eren being the villain at the end, with the entire scout regiment uniting with the Marleyans to stop him. It wasn’t explicit enough. That says something about how much people will distort media to fit their narratives.
@@zigzag8392 What I hate is how the 80% of the world figure is just treated like a statistic.
@Ryuksgelus omg totally, it was so disgusting how they just dropped a number and moved on. The whole point of the story is to humanize your "enemies", but then the entire population is fine to be reduced to a statistic?🤔
@@Ryuksgelus ❗❗❗
I have been pissed off about this ending for weeks. WEEKS. But Isayama basically ending up identifying with Eren and stubbornly clinging to his original plan makes an unfortunate amount of sense. It explains why the ending isn't really satisfying because according to your theory, it's just righteous cynicism. The kind you only get from stewing in the mud of depression/misanthropy for too long. And extrapolating your own shitty thoughts instead of doing some soul-searching and coming to the conclusion that maybe you got your own hopes up. There are a lot of people who feel that way, and our society heavily discourages actually discussing those feelings and working them out, because time is money, toxic positivity, etc.
But a Rumbling is not the answer. Eren didn't acknowledge that he took his disappointment of the outside world, and eventual revenge fantasy to its dumbest, most extreme conclusion until it was too late(which imo is kinda debatable)...and the series ultimately blamed it on the tortured slave girl, who we didn't find out was actually "in love" with her abuser until the very last minute(????). AND in a way "rewarded" him by fulfilling his wish of having Mikasa still be obsessed with him for the rest of HER life-- never truly realizing that she does in fact exist outside of him. All while banging on the entire time about freedom. It honestly gives incel vibes. I'm very worried about misanthropes who will try to use this series' legacy as confirmation that they're the smart ones for giving up, because I have seen that. And it ain't pretty.
I'm torn. The manga industry in Japan IS VERY restrictive unless you somebody like Akira Toriyama. You'd be surprised at how some of the most popular mangaka still gotta listen to Japanese-Corporate overlords. It's a real thing. So when Isayama say he felt "restricted" despite all he had accomplished, the 1st thing that came to me was the execs took away the power he thought he would have. I could be wrong, but that aspect could be worth diving into or exploring more.
That's why you have some great series ended cuz the MANGAKA QUIT. Corporations force you to do shit or work at an unhealthy pace, so you just tap out or write a shitty-rushed ending so that you can take a damn break. Without more context from those articles, THAT'S what I lean towards. And I say this as a dude who only watched the 1st season of AOT and NEVER picked up the manga.
Bro did not get the power he thought would have and several "restrictions" forced him to keep that ending. With how the manga industry is, I can definitely believe that. It just happened with Bleach. The industry in Japan is brutal.
It happened with Yu Yohakasho too
This is where I was leaning too. The ending didn't feel like self-sabotage, but a rushed mess like the author was trying to tap out. Nothing about the ending felt consistent.
The best compliment I can give someone is to make me watch videos about things I absolutely don't care about. I've watched every video he's done on this show and I haven't watched not one episode. I love his breakdown and analysis of this character and themes
Same. I've never watched attack on titan, never will, but the analysis is intriguing
Ikr? I'm not from the US and I don't know shit about American football, yet I've watched every single video FD has made about it lol
Agreed. No plans to watch Attack on Titan, but I enjoy good literary analysis regardless of my own experience with the media being analyzed.
Same. Never watched Attack On Titan and never will I watch it. The only reason I know anything about the manga/anime is because of FD.
You have got to watch it , s1 through 3 at least , there s a reason this show got a 9.1 on imdb with multiple episodes in the top ten episodes of all time , and sitting at the 24th best show of all time. You have got to watch it
even when they showed the flashback of all their fallen comrads, it got me so mf mad. they essentially died at the hands of erin, for nothing, because he was bored. They wanted a land without titans and erin wanted to see the world flat out of curiosity. if your take is a cope pill, i would have to take it to not feel like i wasted following a series for 10 years
Afaik, Eren wanted to flatten the world in order to “protect” his friends and Paradis. That still doesn’t explain why he went to the lengths he did.
"erin wanted to see the world flat out of curiosity" is top tier media illiteracy
@@DanaBonn He mostly did it for his friends. As he explains to Reiner, he sees no difference between people, he doesn't believe in nations, the whole Survey corps die in hands of his friends and he knew that was gonna happen (yet people still say Eren is fash, somehow). If he had only killed a part of humanity, they'd eventually invade Paradis and kill them all which wasn't what he wanted, it'd only be prevented with the power of the titans but he wanted said powers removed from existence, and if he killed everyone in the outside, his friends would have nowhere to go and be rewarded for being the heroes of humanity. Eren kills 80% of humanity because it's the only way his "lie" about his friends being heroes will work, and not only that, he sees both the past and the future, and he is disappointed in humanity existing outside the walls, he wishes humanity was the (rather) united civilization he once lived in, instead of a complicated world with wars and prejudice, and he believes his friends may at least live without those prejudices in their lives and fight for democracy. It's a perfect plan for a psychopath like him, if you think about it
@@DanaBonn He used the weapons that were available to him
Eren is and always will be a tragic character that Isayama fully knowing without trying to justify his deeds that he is a scum of the earth. Its all ambiguous when it comes to siding with anyone at all and we happen to see most of the perspective with eren due to the fact that he finished the thousand year long catastrophe, except it’s never going to stop and eren doesn’t know anything about that. I hate the fact that there’s a tree signifying there’s more titan tomfoolery which means eren knew there would be more war. That shows how screwed up he is and to be honest eren’s decision definitely is not the best and he probably knew it.
Hey FD. Huge fan. Just wanted to make a minor correction. The quote you got from "Tomino Ryu" is actually from Yoshiyuki Tomino who's the creator of the Gundam series (created the very first Mobile Suit Gundam and directed a few others) and he has a magazine that he makes named "Tomino Ryu no Tomino" which is where that quote of his feelings on Attack on Titan and Isayama comes from. It's really interesting because Tomino made it a point in his works to show that war is rarely ever as simple as "Good vs Evil" and having many of his beloved characters suffer terrible fates and deaths to show that war is awful.
Thank you for pointing this out! I'm a native Japanese speaker and the トミノ流のトミノ'ryu' means 'style'. Much like the styles of karate (Goju-ryu, Shotokan-ryu, etc). So Tomino style Tomino. Love Gundam and Tomino-sensei.
Was Just Reading about Gundam and Tomino!
And doesn't Isayama show that again and again that war is indeed complex and not at all good vs evil?
And he also doesn't like Evangelion, his views are not the goto if you are considering anything.
@@SSW777He doesn't have to like evangelion for his opinion to be valid.
I don't think in Aot war is described as good vs evil..just rather me than you..
At the exact moment where Eren tells Armin that he's an idiot with power and what did anyone expect is when I realized 'oh so Eren is a self insert.' Then I saw the NYT article and it backs that up. Maybe I was taught by Game of Thrones but I'm no longer under the delusion that the people behind these works are great visionaries. Sometimes it's a lightning in a bottle situation, sometimes bolstered by the team around them to make things successful but they're more than capable of losing the thread and under-developing themes and concepts. Most media is like that, assuming they even try, and very few manage to really truly go deep without imploding. I think Isayama knows this too.
The only thing I want to push back on is that the implied reincarnation of the Titan power at the end of the story isn't necessarily bad. It's a kid w his dog discovering the power, not a fleeing slave who then returned to be abused (for some reason) maybe things can change. Maybe the new founder will make for a more egalitarian generation. It's ambiguous enough for that to be a fair read
No because the ending was foreshadowed in the literal fxcking beginning meaning Isayama planned at all. What evidence do you even have that Eren is a self insert other than "oh I just feel like it is"?
19:11 This whole section is stupid
He was set up by the commander, he also died saving armin. He also became something good because of his dad
19:45 those are all bad guys
20:04 YEPP all bad guys
As a absolutely old head ass anime fan, Ive had many thoughts on this show.
I never thought the show was good. I lost interest at the start of the second season once I recognized how serious the show was attempting to be.
Given that, in the "defense " of Ishiyama, I have to say that so much shonen anime has moved so far from its very anti war origins (Osamu Tezuka wrote Astro boy not longer after being beaten half to death by an american soldier. He openly opinned about his experiene crafting that story. Also look into the history of Barefoot Gen). Attack on titan is a another of a series of "edgy" shounen stories that have coming out of the genre for about 20 years. ATOT of course became the most popular of those, but id argue that we are shocked by the direction of this show, largely because we in the west havent been paying attention.
There is greater commentary here about the way Japanese people of a certain age and demographic (typically men from the Heisei era, born during the Lost decades like Ishiyama was) view thier own history, and how that is reflected in the stories they ingest and the ones they create.
I kinda feel like having Eren be shown to still be a loser makes for a good Adolf parallel. Brought about one of the most horrific regimes in history, was still a bad painter on his second choice of career.
I feel like the ending was trying to pull off Code Geass, but forgot that Lelouch, as far as I recall, didn't actually cause the worst atrocities in the show and he was actively trying to make everyone hate him to get the rest of the world on the same page.
it's a weird mix of muv luv and code geass, didn't work at all because how he set up the story post time skip.
Oh! Someone else mentioning CG. Lelouch actually does cause atrocities in the show, but it's played as more unintended consequences. I also posted this in the comments, but while I love CG, I also think it's pro-nationalist and pro-militarism. However, I think CG is anti-fascist funny enough. Still, very messy politics.
@MrScreenplay I know Lelouche did awful things on his path of revenge, but clearing up the holes in my memory he never used the nukes which would be the equivalent to what Eren did.
That said I do see your other points, but those are to be expected coming from Japan considering how much Japanese media resents the nation's subservience to the US and how they refuse to acknowledge Nanking and Pingfan. Code Geass I sometimes worry is just a revenge fantasy against America, it just happens to be a fun time doing it.
@thereluctanthipster6075 you gotta see the Japanese nationalism in that series as a colonized country though.
@systemofachemicalnir in the context of the show yes, it is justified. When you take into account other shows (Godzilla GMK and the 90s Ghidora, Valvrave the Liberator, Yuki Yuuna is a Hero, Battle Royale 2) and the post-war history of the country, you realize they believe they did nothing wrong and have been unjustly brought to heel under the US, and would take over the world if not for other countries keeping them down.
It just makes me feel uneasy about CG and how truly close Japan is to returning to early Showa politics.
You made an error at 18:39. Eren couldn’t use the training gear because Shadis sabotaged it so he would have to quit the Scouts and go back home. When Eren eventually passes the test, he does so with gear that was designed to fail. In this sense, he was actually the most talented at the time because he passed at test his friends could not.
Also, let’s not forget that as a child, Eren saved Mikasa from three kidnappers by murdering them with farm tools. Yes that was good they maintained their freedom, but it’s also horrifying that a child was capable of that.
Long story short, Reiner said it best: “Eren is the worst person to have the Coordinate.” For many reasons, that boy Eren was always crazy and destined to do horrible things. He developed into a villain but it wasn’t a heel turn. In some ways he’s similar to Gon from Hunter X Hunter. Circling back to Isayama, in his own mind he was the worst person to have the power of a famous mangaka or in Eren’s words “I was just an idiot that got power.”
When approaching from this lens, I find the ending to be more reflective of the reality we live in. I can’t think of a single world leader that isn’t just an idiot with power, which leads to the unfortunate commonplace of genocide(there are currently over 20 genocides happening today!) in our world.
EDIT:
@fd signifier we need a breakdown on Levi and Erwin while you’re focused on AOT. Personally I think those characters are who Isayama wishes who he really was.
I appreciate you for sharing this interpretation. I believe that power will always corrupt the holder of it, as it's not natural to have the amount of power you can have today from an evolutionary perspective. Biologically our brains are still in the hunter-gatherer era and the human species has existed for 300 000 years. As modern hunter-gatherer cultures have been studied globally it has been shown that they all value equality in different corners of the world. Individuals who would try to achieve power through dominance would be disapproved, punished, abandoned or in worst case killed by the other members to maintain equality. When members of the !Kung hunter-gatherers go to hunt they all have their own arrows that are randomly mixed to different hunters and when they bring the prey the one is celebrated who's arrow killed the animal, not the hunter that killed it. This way the best hunter's ego doesn't go through the roof. There will always be individuals who try to achieve power through dominance and by oppressing others.
The reason Reiner is my favorite character in the story is because as Eren himself admits him & Eren are the same, only Reiner is an example of Eren if he wasn't a sociopath. He's the one that commits a terrible act and gets the heroic character arc that you would expect from the protagonist, down to feeling so distraught over his actions he nearly offs himself at one point.
Brian Klaas’ book “corruptible” explores how power is more attractive to bad people than it is to benevolent ones. People who are narcissistic, Machiavellian, and psychopathic are more likely to think themselves worthy of wielding power and will pursue it with ruthless means. Eren fits that bill, and seeks the power of violence even before realizing he’s a super-weapon.
@@YetiCoolBrothereven Gabi is a better analogue, when met with kindness, she actually questions the years of propaganda she's gone through. Eren despite being shown kindness by those Turkish coded people, he still chose genocide, he still chose to only see the worst of the world.
Gon catching strays??
the ending made me cry specifically for mikasa. not because erin died but because she was unable to move on from him, and probably as a side effect of erin even having the founding titan ever through all of his time traveling escapades. she was a victim and people hold it as love.
You cried for the wrong reasons.
@@sergekith8043 she was the only one deserving of tears outside of the lost 80%.
A victim? How?
@@afrosamourai400 she was connected to erin through her ackermin blood, which is fixated on the founder. Erin WANTED her to be stuck on him. He was so inconsiderate to her feelings or her being throughout the WHOLE STORY. their love and feelings were not fleshed out well enough to look anything else like a reflection of Karl and Ymir but make it stolkholm sysdrome lite
@@shellygarland8766That was a lie Eren made up to get Armin and Mikasa off his back. This was confirmed by Zeke saying that's a myth and told Eren that Mikasa genuinely loves him during one of their encounters.
In Pathologic if you get to "talk to the developers" (it's that kind of game) you can ask them what was "the miracle" which our heroine talked so much about and they basically say that they wanted to make bad fuck you ending for this character but they miraculously changed their decision in the very end and the good ending is a miracle on their part basically.
When i played the game i didn't really get that statement but your video reminded me of it and recontextualized it. Developers probably just loved their world and maybe even respected their audience.
Reminds me of Hotline Miami's "real" ending as well.
You can’t make me go from wishing a plague on Reiner and his entire bloodline, to making me wish he finds happiness and not be a great writer. Which made the absurdly horrid ending baffling. That shit felt like he gave up and just wanted to be done with AoT.
Backtracking and trying to make Erin sympathetic was such a weak move. Stand on that shit with your chest out!
I think that’s literally what it is unfortunately
People were going to empathize with Eren regardless of what Isayama did. He is the main character
That's where I'm at. He chickened out at the end. Stand on business Isiyama!
It does the complete opposite. If he wanted you to sympathize with Eren’s motives, Eren would’ve stuck behind them and given a more hardline stance than he did. The fact that he admits to being a mess at the whims of a power he can’t control and urges he doesn’t understand is the opposite of making you want to side with him. Just the very fact that regardless which side of the conflict you were on as a fan, most people didn’t like Eren at the end is proof of this.
There is no scene where they attempt to make Erin sympathetic.
It always cracks me up when Japanese artists use 1930’s German aesthetic for their army stories and are like « noooo it’s just aesthetic for fun » and then they write whack crimes and the story just ends on « ooooh it’s ambiguous. We’re nuanced and smart over here. » like … y’all realize this why they hate you on that continent right ? Like please even TRY to avoid the fascist allegations😭😭😭😭
I remember seeing many Koreans being disgusted by the ending of AOT for that reason. The bar is in hell yet some still can’t reach it. They ain’t lying when they say Japanese kids are taught revisionism about their country lol.
As a Korean, learning about Dot Pixis being based off of a real Japanese Imperial general who played a role in the colonization of Korea and Isayama writing the Eldians to be reflective of the Japanese in terms of isolationism, demilitarization, and Isayama writing them to be victimized by the outside world while using imagery of Jewish persecution led me to start analyzing AoT with a more critical eye that showed me more flaws and problematic things within it
That’s how I feel about the Quincies in Bleach and most rpg fantasy aesthetically based isekai anime
@@bronmill33the Rumbling was based on the renouncing of military violence after the US took Japan at the end of WW2.
@@bronmill33 The general Dot Pixis was based on died before WWII even happened, and Isayama stated that his admiration for him came from how he DENOUNCED being a military general and instead became an educator.
Thank you for writing that fanfiction, I see that 116 people thought it was very funny and it would be absolutely batshit insane if someone genuinely held these beliefs! Please, get yourself into comedy NOW
Didn't he say once in an interview that he wanted to open a Sauna with the tears of all his fans? This interview really cemented the fact that insecurity, misanthropy and not being...free, is inextricably linked to Eren and Isayama's character. Both can never be satisfied it seems; I hope Isayama is okay though, not Eren.
He started writing this at 19 to pay for his rent, & has been tied to this series throughout all of adulthood. I can’t imagine having all of that attention
Woah lmao wut?
Lmao the tears of fans thing was a fandom joke he never said that. We gotta stop making declarative statements on people based on internet lies
He does really like saunas though, and "I want to retire from manga and open an onsen" is a pretty credible plan
@@TheAngryj my favourite pastime is spreading innocuous lies and deceit with added misinformation.
I wonder if Isayama and Doja Cat would get along
How random
Wtf lol..
Lol
i kinda get it! lmao
That's good take
Man, the use of that (those?) tool tracks was really perfect. I say this as a long long tool fan, but you managed to nail just the most perfect petulant dickhead lines for those pieces. REALLY loved that.
Bro really said, I got bills to pay and cut to a sponsor. 😂😂😂😂 I love you bro.
i thought the ending was interesting in the sense that it feels like isayama looked at End of Evangelion and asked himself, what if shinji was *actually* a bitch, with the same selfish motivation as his dad for example. i find it hard to look at the story in a vacuum cause of how obvious the parallels are, and much like eva it feels like a subversion of genre and tropes. all eren really wants and does is the same shit as any generic shonen protagonist, he wants freedom and he wants to punch bad guys to achieve that freedom, but with the complexity of the world he lives in and especially the racism he faces, just killing the "bad guy" aka 80% of the world doesn't work out as well as it would in any type of shonen
I am so salty that he is still being trolled by AoT instead of watching Vinland Saga, he choose to live a life of being tilted by anime
I am Isayama as well...
@@signifiedbsides1129 "wise yt uncle with the piece of wisdom isayama couldn't shed upon us "- I am an idiot.
Great use of Tool throughout.
As someone whose only exposure to this manga/anime was through content creator commentary, I have two thoughts. 1) Everything you've said makes sense to me and I'm convinced it's a reasonable opinion for me to adopt, as if I actually need to have one about it in the first place. 2) Based on this, Isayama has overwhelmingly succeeded in his art. Oh well.
We need to talk about the working conditions for the animators of MAPPA (the studio that makes this manga) and the anime industry In general cause it’s worse than people think
This!! What do we do? The only way things change is by hitting them in the wallet. Stop buying manga? Stop watching anime? I've thought about canceling my funimation and crunchyroll channels. Would that even matter? The whole manga business is warped because they make those authors produce new content too quickly. Anime is bad too because the animators work long hard hours and the pay isn't great. Are the animators at Mappa going to walk out?
@@chrisisapracticalmess563 There’s also the language barrier. At this point it’ll require some sort of solidarity effort from within their culture.
100% cope take and (I pray) totally correct. This could be a work of fiction on the level of Kerouac, Cummings, Thompson, etc, where it's demanded of us to analyze why we take so much for granted about stories and what makes a story "good" and why that even matters.
Yes. I applaud Isayama's decision of leaving so many things up to interpretation because this makes the work more challenging. Nowadays most things are very safe in order to prevent this kind of controversy
Absolutely correct, and it isn't a cope take. It's why it has warranted so much discussion. It's up there with EVA in this respect.
Theres one point i feel was done well in the ending. When Eren says hes just a stupid kid who got power. To me Eren is a cautionary tale about how fast persecuted people, in particular young kids, can become radicalized. Hes not some genius master mind. Hes not a sigma male role model. Eren is not someone to be idolized, the only problem is alot of people didn’t understand that. Yet thats crucial to the whole message of the story. Racism, war, and nationalism all are present across erens life and he was given the attack on titan equivalent to the nuclear launch codes. The way this subverts the typical shonen mc arc, in my opinion, is what makes eren an interesting character. I think its a deliberate choice to make his actions “appear” justifiable by having us sympathize with the eldians but again, in my opinion, thats the point.
him as a protagonist, him starting as this driven underdog, to a genuine key player in the wider world, to then that world being displayed for what it is, and all the baggage attatched to his larger and growing final goal, then switching the main lens of the series to this young girl that's kinda like eren, who then she gets her entire life uprooted by our ex-underdog, he's now the monster that he was affraid of for so long. the timeskip slowly taking eren out of that protagonist role and more as a solidified antagonist i felt was definitely obvious at the time, especially with him rallying the jaegerists, it was depressing but fantastic. now i don't wanna be unnuanced with calling him the antagonist at the end just because he's a villain, but he really is the main driving force against the heroes, which at the end is humanity. i think it's so neat that he changed to be against what he originally set out to fight for, but like you said, i also saw a lot of people not getting that. hopefully that continues to change with people seeing him for who he really is at the end of it all, especially with the anime ending now, but it's such a big picture that i really ever hear gabi brought up in these discussions even though, like i mentioned, she's kind of a great eren... foil? i want to say, where eren kind of woke her up to the horrors of her wider world. i would love to try and add more but i just wanted to leave something (that i hope it is still) agreeing with what you said, but i am so tired at the time of writing this lol.
This
We could have still learned that lesson with a much better ending. Like him completing the rumbling but having to live with guilt over kiling his friends to achieve his goal for the rest of his life. Not this.
Well the issue is that Eren isn't a dumbass kid like yall want him to be. He never was. He killed 2 people at age 9, he was smart enough to realize that if he didn't do anything, she would be gone. Most kids would have listened to their father and wait for the cops to show up, just like Grisha told him to, but Eren did the opposite. We see him slowly lose his hotheadedness throughout the show, he starts thinking more with his head. He doesn't transform blindly out of rage when he gets kidnapped by Reiner and Bert, he maps out his escape plans. He never was some stupid, idiotic kid, even when he had anger issues lol. A man who can infiltrate an enemy base, stay hidden as a spy and plan out an attack isn't stupid. If Eren had been an idiot since the beginning, I'd get your point, but this is simply not true. Which is why him saying he's just an idiot doesn't make sense and feels out of character.
@@nightwishisthegreatestband6355Why do y’all want Eren to kill his friends so badly? 😂😂😂
Honestly this theory makes the most sense out of any I’ve heard, and explains why everything in the ending feels “off” based on textual analysis alone. Add in the meta element, and suddenly the ending is somewhat coherent. I can’t give you a reason why he hates himself and the world so much, but it makes about as much sense as the ending tbh. It also explains why discourse about the series is so contentious right now. I could almost respect his artistic decision if it actually had any integrity behind it.
It has integrity he did the ending that he had in mind since the beginning without feeling obligated to do something pleasant for his fanbase..
When I watched the ending (with a bit of caution and my brain really working bc I knew that this could go many bad directions) I realized that it was depicting some sort of extreme, cosmic indifference and nihilism. I walked away from it thinking so it’s a story about humanity, and a really negatively nihilistic and hopeless one at that. People hurt people then hurt people will hurt more people.. abuse perpetuates itself on and on forever. And it’s silly to think any one group of people would change that. The messaging about love is depressing and abusive as well. And I was like oh okay so this is a really hopeless story, that gave a lot of heart in the beginning and middle just to step back and say shit happens at the end. And then I kinda just stopped thinking about it. Because it wasn’t interesting anymore. It’s just nihilistic in the most regressive and hopeless way it could be. Nobody is redeemed, nobody fixes things, things can’t be fixed bc humans suck.
Pretty edgelord messaging imo. I could totally see that being the message a young, hopeless and unhappy writer would want to put into their work, only to realize later that they’ve locked themselves into a nothing message because they can’t possibly color the story and commit to any satisfying intent or angle. It’s sad.. sad that the ending is so painfully lacking any message for all this effort. But I could see how someone would feel that way about life generally because I’ve felt like that before. I just didn’t have any audience watching it happen
I think you're second reason is a little off, I don't think the two positions are pro war and anti war. I believe the biggest lesson from the show is to stop indoctrinating children. Every major event in the show occurs because a child was indoctrinated into someone else's ideology and views; Reiner by his family and the Marlayan which cause him to break through the wall in ep 1; Grisha tried to indoctrinate Zeke, which lead to him trying to sterilize and therefore genocide an entire race of people; Grisha with Eren which lead to him becoming a child with more power than any child should ever have; Gabi by her family which lead to her being a child soldier and killing Sasha. I think this is the true lesson for the show.
In reason 3 you say he's an idiot who stumbled upon this power because Eren called himself an idiot. What you're forgetting is that he didn't stumble upon it like Ymir, his father FORCED it upon him at the young age of 8 or 9. Unlike the way his father received it, by being scouted out by a resistance leader. This further supports the point that the show is about not forcing your views on kids.
In the final printed volume, there's a few bonus pages that show modern day Eren, Mikasa and Armin arguing over the ending of a movie franchise. Mikasa likes the open ending, but Armin thinks the movie left too many unanswered questions. When they ask what Eren thinks, he says that he just happy to spend time with the two of them.
I don’t know if I believe the ending was intentionally bad. I don’t think we would ever know unless Isayama explicitly says so but, I do believe that writing was both a dream and a burden to Isayama. I can see him feeling like Eren, stumbling into overwhelming power but not knowing how to deal with it or being a skilled enough writer to execute the heavy and complicated themes.
I can see this as a story started by an angry 23 year old. That after 14 years, the now 37 year old feels trapped by the themes thought up by an immature adult.
I still dont like the ending. AoT had some crazy plot twists, juicy character drama and a lot of disturbing facist imagery, but I'll still read Isayamas next work. Maybe it'll help my understand, parasocially why he wrote what he did.
19:11 This whole section is stupid
He was set up by the commander, he also died saving armin. He also became something good because of his dad
19:45 those are all bad guys
20:04 YEPP all bad guys
Like you said, this take is so good but weird I can't decide whether it's galaxy-brained or high grade, refined copium.
The "Attack on Titan" ending felt kinda meh for a few reasons. First off, the pacing in the final chapters was rushed, leaving some character arcs feeling unresolved. It's like they crammed too much into too little space. Also, the big twist at the end didn't sit well with a lot of fans; it felt like a sudden shift that didn't mesh with the buildup of the story. Plus, the ambiguity left a lot of questions hanging. Now, when it comes to the show's messages, you gotta be careful. The whole "fighting for freedom" theme could be twisted by some to justify extreme actions or nationalism. It's like, sure, Eren had his reasons, but it's a slippery slope when people start misinterpreting that message. Overall, the ending could've been more thought-out, and the themes need to be approached with caution to prevent any misguided interpretations.
Definitely watch til the end. I have a theory on why
Is there a resolution to all things in real life? Kind of missing the point.
I mean, there's that, but there's also people right out miss interpreting the themes of the story. Seriously, a series that encouraged you to analyze almost every dialogue in each chapter is suddenly bad because you take the dialogue at the end at face value? C'mon at least try to think where the author is trying to go with it. Like this guy, why is there really a confirmation that Titans will be back when the freaking series shows the magic thingy die when the titans disappear? Why would you think that in the first place?
@@G.Bfit.93
Real life doesn't have hard beginnings and endings either, but most works of fiction aren't Finnegan's Wake.
Me finding an ending that makes every triumph beforehand utterly pointless as just "ok"
The idea that Hajime Isayama would of sabotaged his own work is an interesting theory. There is a really strange occurrence of Japanese creators who end up hating their own success.
For example, the creator of Evangelion (Hideaki Anno) has expressed how the show's success made him deeply depressed, as well as the production of the rebuild series, which was why the message of the last Evangelion Rebuild movie was essentially to stop isolating yourself, touch grass, and be part of a community.
Good thing it's just an idea.
Aot legit is hopeful
@@sabsain2399 What idea?
I feel like there’s some real validity to the idea the Eren is a reflection of Isayama, especially because both contain this very Japanese specific brand of doomerism where they know things are bad, but just kinda say it is what is it is and continue the same bad practices instead of changing them because so many people around them have the same attitude and don’t think they can do anything to change it(even though they can and often most want the changes). Thinking about aot with the lense of Japanese politics and current peoples attitudes towards politics makes a lot of the doomerism and lack of a solid/strong commentary on war and politics make sense(doesn’t make it okay but makes sense).
So what you're basically saying is that Isayama is a doomer.
I recently watched pluto ( manga written by naoki urasawa san, I respect his work a lot)
And this show was far better concluded than aot within 8 hours( given that couldn't have been too complex like aot given the time frame)
But I have watched a lot of time travel fuckery and the thing that most pisses me off is that he had no other options.
Although I do believe there was a clear depiction of " A man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills " .
The most lazy trope is the "he wasn't in control of what he was doing.." like all that for this?
Pluto is also an adaptation of a classic Tetswan Atom (Astro Boy) story arc, which is why it stays consistent thematically. Pluto is one of my favorite works ever though.
@@afrosamourai400 yeah man 🌚
@@reydemagival yup astro boy was my childhood
So I enjoyed the show even more ( the geopolitical themes blows my mind to this day)
Ah, Pluto ♡ good shit (the most affectionate)
As a person with maladaptive day dreams something I can tell you is that often you don't have control over your stories and your characters. Often characters just do what they do without any real concious input on your side. And very often there are specific things in a story you have to keep even if these things are detrimental to the story. Things just are what they are and sometimes you're just not in control even though you're the author.
How come you have no control over your characters?
@@afrosamourai400 When I daydream my characters often evolve on their own without my conscious input. Three of my characters happen to have short hair for example. I didn't consciously thought about the idea of them having short hair they just appeared in my head with short hair. The group is also made out of two couples. A is dating N and K is dating KA. A and N dating wasnt something I tried to make happen, their relationship just progressed into something romantic without me trying to make it romantic. It just started to be that way. Again no conscious input on my side.
K has blonde hair and always had blonde hair, I didn't do that on purpose. She just showed up blond with short hair.
And If I had the chance to have my daydreams about their life's published I wouldn't change their race, gender, look or relationship with each other just so audiences would like it more because it would feel extremely wrong and leave a really bitter and uncomfortable taste in my mouth.
K isn't K without her short, blond hair. N isn't N without her temperamental outbursts. A isn't A without her undying love for N.
In my at least 5 years of maladaptive daydreaming about these four characters there wasn't one single time where N and A didn't die in their final fight against each other. They always die and they always die the exact same way.
And if there was a show made about them their death wouldn't change just because the test audience or whoever doesn't like it.
N and A die fighting each other. That is it, that's their ending and their only ending and I can't do anything about it.
If I did it wouldn't be their story anymore.
I don't know if you're able to understand what I'm trying to say but yeah this is how it is lol
Critically analyzing and course correcting your story is one of the first and most painful lessons a storyteller learns. Those raw impulsive ideas are like clay, they're meant to be sculpted. Failure to do so is legitimate failure at the craft. No shade to you, you're literally just daydreaming, but comparing your experience to a published mangaka who's worked with editors for years? Apples to oranges doesn't quite do it justice.
@@jacobyoung935 I am very much convinced that the vast majority of authors if not all of them are maladaptive daydreamers, therefore I believe that what I said is comparable.
Changing your story or it's characters because your audience doesn't like what you do is the first step to failure and has nothing to do with "critically analyzing and course correcting".
Some stories simply are dark and don't end in a happy ending. Some end with death and the knowledge that the next terror is just around the corner and personally I like that and I think that a lot of stories would profit from a darker ending.
I for once enjoyed the AOT ending, I didn't mind the hopelessness, I thought it was quite fitting for this story.
@@caleidozkopie8344 Look, if you're projecting this hard I'm not even gonna try. Good luck with that story you clearly want to write.
Loved hearing the Tool remixes here! It works so well! Great video, I was was waiting for your read on the anime ending
I've been thinking a lot about self-indulgent, non-cathartic art lately, and what it does when it has an audience. This is a perfect example. When people have put a lot of time and emotional energy into a given thing and the investment doesn't pay off, it can be really difficult for people deal with that sunken cost.
Thanks for talking so thoughtfully about Attack on Titan. Sometimes we aren't done with something until we are well and truly done.
Isayama has contradicted himself 100 times saying he has and has not changed the ending. In early interviews he said he originally had a The Mist style interview… basically most of your favorite MCs would’ve died. Then as AoT got more and more popular he decided to change the ending circa 2016
He went for the ending that would please eremika shippers and fans of most of the characters.
BUT YESSSS WELL SAID. Isayama wanted to use Eren as a mouthpiece for his imposter syndrome
I was thinking of "Thanos was right" ppl while watching and you mentioned it. It also reminds me of "Nagato was right". Nagato was another one of these villains whom goal was mass destruction in order to force world peace. He witnessed all the ppl he cared about die, that "Pain" pun fully intended was the catalyst for Nagato. A lot of ppl who watched Naruto believe Nagato was right.
I never watched AoT, I rarely watch anime unless I come across something special, like Narauto, like Fullmetal Alchemist. But watching your AoT videos are interesting from the outside looking in, bc I never see these points. Ppl I know who watch the show talk about it like every second is amazing and best writing story ever.
Interestingly, Naruto never does fix the shinobi system (or abolish it altogether); he and Sasuke just become so powerful that no other country can really go against their ''peace''. In that sense, one could make an argument that Nagato was right in the context of Naruto's plot
@@FujinKeima he definitively was right in the context of naruto..he's one of the greatest antagonist i know..he wanted peace by terror, eren never cared about peace, he just wanted freedom, revenge and his friends to survive..
its less fascist and more nihilistic but whether intentionally or unintentionally it for sure reveals Fascism to be an ideology founded on nihilism.
like you said the world becomes fascist as the creator logically follows the path of where nihilism will ultimately lead you if you give in to it. Its almost like he just said to himself "write the most nihilistic thing you can" and it just naturally led down the path of glorifying fascism.
An issue I have with FD's take is that he himself admits that Eren's lines were explicitly changed to show he is wrong referencing to the scene where he calls himself an idiot along with other changes like Armin's rage at Eren and yet he still says that the narrative doesn't treat the Rumbling as a bad thing and tries to frame it as an example of Isayama being right-wing.
I don't understand how Isayama (or his writing team) rewriting something to make it more clear a character's fascist acts are wrong can be taken as anything else but an instance of him framing fascism as wrong in his story.
Also. Aot was never a metatextual story. Isayama simply gave up.
It's so annoying how some people can never fail to make things about the alt right. Like, who tf cares if a group of bad apples like something for the wrong reasons? That shouldn't be how you consume and form opinions on media. It's just so childish to me.
@@moeski17 Yea, also looking at comments on on the internet like FD does is a very bad anecdotal way of assessing how a fandom is in real life. I could just as easily say that irl all the AoT fans I met were either liberals or progressives.
Plus wasn't there a bunch of alt right guys trying to claim Black Panther (a movie FD likes) as an alt right movie a while ago?
@@phather3870 It's a very disingenuous way of looking at things. "Oh this person I don't like enjoys this so it's probably a medium made for such and such." Really lame. And I'm crying at the last part lmaoo is that true?! Black panther? Really? 😂😂
@@moeski17 It is literally all some of these media criticism spheres can do. "The text must scream at me my own beliefs, at a volume I cannot ignore, filtered through an incredibly American-centric lens! The author is dead, long live my effigy of the author!"
It's the same sphere of media criticism that thought *Cyberpunk 20xx* is pro-late stage capitalism. They need a story to wink and nod and use key words to walk them through themes like a metatextual Dora the Explorer, or else they get lost and fall back on the skills they wrote a C paper with in lit201.
Maybe art isn’t always about making you feel good about yourself maybe sometimes it’s to make you think
Or make you feel bad
I belive Isayama started the manga being a fascist and ended it as a fascist in deradicalizing process. I mean that he now condemns the fascist solutions to the world`s problems but he still has a fascist diagnostic of what the world`s problems are. Like "yeah fascism sucks but people will always have conflict with eachother, so war and genocide will always be inevitable. I don't like it, but that`s the way the world is and always will be" kind of thing.
Holy SHIT it was nice to hear Tomino (a fav of mine) share thoughts I've had bubbling in the back of my head since 2013. This is off the topic of the video entirely, but it's really really heartwarming to connect with an artist at different times in different art forms, to get a sense of who someone is from watching eg. Gundam and then hear that same essence come through in their thoughts and words again and again.
Its like Kojima and Metal Gear Solid. Cypher being a metaphor for Konami wanting to get Metal Gear.
It says a lot about nerd/incel emotional maturity that omnicide is their catharsis.
Dang that interview line about eren wanting to be outside the walls in a world that was empty really makes it sound like isayama was trying to create a character like Johan from urasawas seminal Monster. Johan is an irredeemable character who the story of the manga and the radical empathy of the other characters manages to (somewhat) redeem. He is an ultra nihilist who just wants to exist in a ‘world without names’ because he has only experienced cruelty in the world as a person with no real identity. In the end we are forced to see the humanity inside the monster, as well as acknowledge that the potential for this monster exists in all people. The manga is explicitly anti fascist and anti murder, and is mostly about the fantasy of what if the best person in the world was also the best surgeon in the world (Kenzo tenma I love you). Highly reccomend monster and urasawas recent Pluto to any fan of anime. He is a life changing writer, and a genius at drawing facial expression (and ugly white people, which anime in general doesn’t depict enough)
I never saw johan like a nihilist but more like suicidal..he had empathy, he cared about his sister, he cared about tenma enough to kill for him and call him "father" he only wanted to be killed by the only man he respected..tenma! That's not nihilism to me..
@@afrosamourai400 i guess it depends. Johan is shown to have multiple personalities, one certainly cares for people (if sometimes that care is twisted by his fractured morality and sense of self), one wants to die (but only by driving an extremely ethical pacifist to kill him by murdering everyone who ever knew Johan existed), but one definitely also wants to end the world. These personalities conflict and overlap, its not clear cut. But if Johan is suicidal, he is suicidal in the way of mass shooters -- he cannot die without taking many others with him. Johan is also shown to see the world as mechanistic and defined by suffering and human cruelty. Its not really possible to portray 'pure nihilism' and your right, Johan has some values and beliefs -- but they are all changeable and often contradict. I think i describe Johan as nihilist (and not merely a radical pessimist) because he has not true sense of self. Its difficult to really have a beleif system if you are cycling through identities all the time. The values Johan displays at times feel like attempts of a shattered psyche to cling to something, more than genuine beleif. BUt part of the genius thing about Monster is we can only ever know Johan so well. He is a permanent cypher for the reader as much as for the other characters: we see in him what we want to see.
Cool, when did you meet Isayama and when did he tell you all of this?
@@sabsain2399 you're confused. you think i made a statement about the mangaka's intention, when in fact i made a statement about what it seemed his intention may have been based on his interview statement and the content of the work itself. notice i used the phrase 'it sounds like'. this is how comparative media analysis works -- we make educated guesses based on what we observe in a work and what an author themself claims about it.
i'm afraid you may be dangerously mislead: it is not necessary to actually meet and know an an author or artist to make analytical assessments of that person's work. if that were the case, it would not be possible to make almost any statement about art; media criticism would not exist. you must also remember that much of what is expressed through art is not necessarily conscious to the creator -- thus if we only based our opinions on what an author says about a work, we are in danger of abandoning our critical thinking skills and being merely un-critical fans engaging with work in a manner defined by the author. i hope i don't need to explain why this could be a problem.
listen: isayama is not your friend. these characters are not your friends. he is a person who made a piece of art and that means everyone is allowed to have opinions about it. don't take it personally, make your own art and then take that personally!
I just wish the ending was clearer in regards to why Eren did what he did.
Was it because he had no choice? Was it because he wanted to protect his friends by having them stop him? Or was it because he wanted to? The show basically says “all of the above”. But for me it’s never been that complicated: I still love the show, but I just don’t like eren. Simple as that.
Oh boy, an FD Signifier video! I can't wait to hear what he has to THIS BODYYYYYYYY THIS BODY HOLDING MEEEE WE ARE ETERNAL ALL THIS PAIN IS AN ILLUSION
Blud straight called AoT "Literally the best selling manga of all time" you are approximately 400 million volumes short of that spot.
never stop beating this horse, it’s actually insane how far this series fell
womp womp
I agree!
@silksonic3927You'd think that someone with the name “Silk Sonic” would have better taste.
@silksonic3927 watch the sopranos and get back to me
@silksonic3927 After the ending, it's one of the worst series in entertainment media ever made.
It's been a tough ride for myself with Attack On Titan. I was a teenager when it first aired, and any teenage boys can confirm that this is a time in our lives in which we're seeking purpose, confidence, and belonging in a world which still confuses and intimidates us. Attack On Titan was a show which validated a lot of the anger I had in my heart towards my powerlessness in such a world, and it empowered my genuine desire for freedom and liberation from an all-powerful force. I really vibed with the themes of the first couple seasons, and it honestly defined a core part of my personality at the time.
But as the show went on and I grew as a person, the show stopped exemplifying those themes of fighting for freedom against an oppressor. I discovered a political identity in line with my values in Communism, and Attack On Titan slowly and slowly became a show which empowers fascist and far right ideology.
It truly feels like a betrayal, especially considering my undying love for the show/manga from 2013-2018-ish. I still haven't fully recovered from that feeling.
Anyways, thank you for the analysis. I could talk at length about Attack On Titan and the transformation that show took.
You’re a communist?
I actually liked the way pre time slip eren was developing, he started to mature and grow tf up but damn that ending was shit 🤣. One of my favourite stories instantly destroyed out of pettiness. I really like this take.
THANK UNCLE FOR KEEPING THIS ENERGY. Because after the anime a lot of people changed up. But I’m like yeah no the writing is still not there and Isayama really pushed his character into genocide. What’s funny is, the last episode of Loki came out the same time too and Loki just like Eren was in a position of controlling the future by controlling the past. Loki kept going back for centuries in order to stop that world ending fate Erin could never.
So the thousand year old god found a solution that a violent and angerfilled Young adult couldn't.
@@oyamampendu9467 does age really matter when both characters can control time and live a thousand life times at once? No not really
So he wrote AOT as an immature 20 year old and it took off. He grew up and realized he's probably expected to make more highly successful Manga, but like he said, he's an idiot, who probably could never match the popularity of it, especially since he was very different from the person he used to be. So he destroyed it just so he could retire early. It sucks, but that might makes sense to me.
tbh this actually falls in line with a theory i've been thinking about for like a decade: immature blackpill weirdos and fascists sound really similar, except the blackpill guys are sad about it.
i like this
The pipeline of nihilism and helplessness to right wing extremism and conspiracy is honestly a very poetic ending all things considered
I feel this is similar to the Evangelion series. The series is adored by fans for its dark theme, religious iconography and the seeming nihilism of the anime and the subsequent movies. This was very much due to Hideaki Anno being in a dark place during production of the anime. However it's in the last movie, Evangelion: 3.0+1.0 you see Hideaki Anno was in a better place and wanted to give his fans proper closure. My hope is that AOT can maybe do something similar.
I dont think at that point he was trying to be sympathetic towards fascists, he just leaves it incredibly ambiguous because in the end its ultimately just nihilist because the fascists ended taking over and it just led to more wars and destruction afterwards. He just wanted it to end in the shittiest way he can make it, reflecting on how much he hated working on it.
FD's explanation makes a lot sense and I think that probably should be the prevailing belief now when you look at the story. All the nonsensical beats ends up making too much sense after looking at it from that light.
My personal belief about the meta shit going on is that in reaction to people hounding Isayama for his personal anti-korean racism, and given the opportunity to veer in a different direction with the advent of *his editor killing their wife and awaiting trial for two years*, he changed the second half of the story.
Now, if he did that to make it a self-reflective piece or if he did it to have Marley have nazi aesthetics and complicate narratives about his own racism, I don't know.
What I do know is that he very, very obviously dropped whatever plotline was intended with Ymir (the contemporary Ymir, not the founding titan Ymir). Like, what the fuck was that.
So basically isayama wrote about his own real life self fulfilling prophecy of being an idiot with power. Then, he decides to fetishize his own ability to ruin it just because he can. If that’s truly the case, that means he also made the entire ending all about himself, and I think that might be some of the most corny shit ever tbh.
Its wild that Eren thought genocide was the solution I bet that if he had been successful generations in the future Eldians would have STILL been fighting each other. The minute he thought genocide was a good thing, he lost his way.
amazing vid. One important correction tho. ONE PIECE is the best selling manga of all time
Something I noticed watching your vid FD as you were talking about Iseyama basically using Eren as a medium of his own feelings/thoughts... the kid version of Eren has the same haircut/style as Iseyama. Maybe I'm tripping but the way he draws kid eren's hair from the side profile and from the front matches his own to me. Further highlighting that possibility.
Sorry but some points come off to me as a bit miopic. I think by the end of the Manga, it’s clear that Eren is no longer the real protagonist, but actually Armin and Mikasa are the protagonists. We are forced to feel how THEY feel about having to effectively put an end to their brother/best friend/love interest for the greater good, which, despite them feeling bad about it and empathizing with basically one of their most important loved ones (remember all of them are orphans, they basically only have each other) they still fulfill their task, they still stop Eren, mikasa literally beheads him. People like to talk about how Eren goes from protagonist to antagonist to villain, but rarely do they talk about how it is clear that after the invasion on Marley, Eren isn’t really the focal point of the story. I think, in a way, the first half of the show is like the prequels of Star Wars, focusing on Anakin, and the second half is the original trilogy, focusing on Luke.
Sorry but it’s a rare FD L in my opinion.
all facts here
Very interesting reading. I was never someone who hated the ending as it always seemed to align with the story’s pessimistic outlook to me, but this makes even more sense and I kind of love it. A story about self hatred and seeking validation. How it causes pain and dissatisfaction to ourselves and even, maybe especially, to those that love us most.
It even justifies more cleanly Eren traumatizing himself - if Eren really is a dramatized version of a person who sees nothing good in himself so he perpetuates it by thinking it, the outcome is similar to a person who literally fated himself to be a horrible villain that wanted power.
@@iantaakalla8180if eren was a good character, as in a guy who sees good in the world, he would have been what thorfinn is in vinland saga. Deciding to let go of your past and hatred and start anew. He could have abandoned the war entirely and lived peacefully for a short while(like in mikasa's dreams).
Another great video FD, and a theory that really makes a lot of sense. Hearing how Iseyama talks about the series reminds me of this quote from BoJack Horseman:
“I remember when I won my Oscar, standing up on that stage, looking at the statue, and I thought, ‘This is supposed to be the happiest moment of my life and I never felt more miserable. [...] Sometimes you need to take responsibility for your own happiness. [...] I’m happy for the first time in my life, and I’m not gonna feel bad about it. It takes a long time to realise how truly miserable you are, and even longer to see that it doesn’t have to be that way."
It sounds like to me that Iseyama realized that achieving his dream didn't make him happy like he hoped, but instead of self-reflection, he decided to self-sabotage.
Going to read AoT again to refresh my brain before i dive into this and catch up with some of your other related vids, but just want to pay respects to the blessed Tool and the right honurable Parabol/Parabola
If you don't mind me asking... how long would it take you to reread it? The way you said it it sounded like its only gonna take you a couple of hours or something😭 it takes me forever to finish reading stuff
@@juuuu0 oh i wish. no this is going to be a check back in on this video in about a months time, maybe more.. But no doubt it'll be worth the wait, and the refresher :)
Re-reading AoT has been on the to do list for a while, especially now the show has finale'd
Does anyone else think it’s pretty clear that Eren is supposed to be a villain by the end of the story? And the Yaegerists winning is supposed to be the unfortunate reality of the story reflecting the real world. We’re not supposed to be happy that they ended up in power though. Also the reason he couldn’t use the gear was because it was sabotaged. So actually it was impressive that he even ended up being able to balance on it.
ngl I understand the disappointment people have with eren's character but he was literally always like this. always selfish, always reactionary and emotional, always had this weird deep fucked up-ness about him, all the signs from the beginning were there. ever since that episode when he wakes up from his first titan transformation and he was like "you're all gonna die" I was like oh there's something deeply fucked up about him that we'll find out later. like literally killed two grown men as a child lmao. I thought it was interesting seeing a character go through so much development to then reject that development for his own personal goals. obviously, not everyone is going to like that choice and I totally understand why. but personally, I saw him as more of a sprouting Light Yagami than some righteous anti-hero.
YEEEEESSSSS!! It pisses people of because Eren is still remembered by his friends at the end but it makes sense for them to do so despite the horrendous acts he committed because they grew up with him. It's like in the movie "We need to talk about Kevin", Kevin does some things in that movie but his mother still loves him at the end. Some people are very sensitive and don't like ambiguity when depicting controversial actions which is why western media is usually very safe and comforting
@@LuisSierra42 it honestly reminds me of old greek tragedies that end so absurdly but make sense because the absurdity of humans knows no bounds. like yes, it doesn't make sense that Ymir would love the king, it doesn't make sense that eren would start the rumbling, it doesn't make sense that characters we once knew and love became fascist and openly celebrated it. people do not make sense. we find ourselves trapped in this cycle of endlessly doing terrible things to each other, in the "forest" like sasha's dad describes. I think that whole scene with sasha's family says to you exactly what the story is trying to say. we must get out of the forest, get the children out of the forest, save ourselves for the better. you can even see sasha's family side-eyeing the fascists. is the story, narratively, promoting these ideas? personally, I don't think so. I think the show went out of its way to show you the horrors of these characters' bad decisions, the bad things that have happened to them, does that make those bad things justifiable? no. the story shows more than tells imo and if you need it to scream "fascism is bad" at you more than it already did for you understand that, then idk what else to say bc I sure got the message.
Considering the story wasn’t at all subtle with its condemnation of Eren’s actions, no, literally everyone should realize this
Yes, correct. I still cannot get over the fact that F.D. does not get this. I don't see how he can't get it. I just can't.
This actually made AOT more interesting. From listening to this it made me think more of art. Just an expression...a genuine experience even if it is not ideal. What is expected from story telling? What about rap? Is it just to satisfy others? Sometimes all the hype can stifle the enjoyable process of creating something then being stuck in that for one 10 years 😱!? I have ADHD though 😅
People want everything to be safe and unambiguous
@@LuisSierra42 Frankly, "ambiguity" is overrated. We already have more than enough if it in the real world. The least we could have is something a little more concrete and definite from our art every once in a while. That's not the same thing as being spoon-fed exactly what we want to hear and never be challenged (I also have problems with the concept of "challenge," but that's for another time); instead, we have a clearer sense of where things are going, how things will end, and what conclusions we can draw as a result of our experience with art. Furthermore, the way artists, in particular, use ambiguity is, more often than not, sloppy and mishandled rather than profound or illuminating, this anime being a textbook case of just how bad it can get.
@@miro.georgiev97 You are definitely entitled to your own opinion but it seems to me that you should stick to children's shows and movies if you only want straightforward and unambiguous stuff
@@LuisSierra42 Uh, I never said I want _only_ straightforward and unambiguous stuff. Did you miss the "every once in a while"? That's not equivalent to "only one kind of thing ever." I like my moral ambiguity and philosophical depth as much as the next person, but I'm not so pretentious as to dismiss the straightforward and unambiguous out of hand because there's value in that kind of media, _too._
I finally pressed play eventhough i got the notification for this video 5 days ago. Thats how much this show has rented space in my mind. I was like "i can't watch this video on AOt without being ready to remember this freaking thing that took 10 years to finis" lol. Anyway, looking foward to your options.
27:53 imagine if Miura just kept Guts a damaged edgelord and was drawing out his fears rather than addressing them. All of the muck with none of the redemption. That happens enough irl, I don't need manga for that inspo lmao
i really want to believe that Isayama wrote a downfall and fans took it the wrong way but the evidence is actually quite disturbing to me
The fans didn't take it wrong. You just need to stop looking for the wrong type of people
@@theanimerapper6351 sorry but the "wrong type" of people are everywhere though its half the fanbase but tbh some are sane
They don’t just take it wrong, they thinks it objectively a bad ending which is even more annoying
@@Chiefteeth1 why? isn't it agreed the ending is bad?
@@RyomenAyeni225 there is a loud group on opposite ends of the spectrum that either think the endjng is great or terrible who still talk loudly and argue about it, where as those in the middle who agree that the ending isnt good have all just quietly retired from even interacting with AoT because of how exhausting it is
So happy you made a video on this! When I first watched the ending I felt so empy inside and told my bf that it sucked and that I was dissapointed. The only time I felt something is when I *spoilers ahead* thought connie and jean were going to be titans. Tiktok also had a huge influence on how I felt after which made me feel more sympathetic to Eren because he was literally a dumb kid. Your use of comparing him to thanos made so much sense. Now I feel like I just mourn who Eren was before he turned into an edgelord freak. I was so sad to see him change into what he did.
I’ll always go back to the argument that it’s not the artist’s job to control how their work is received and that art doesn’t need to have Disney perfect endings where the good guys are vindicated. Rather, we can see depictions of evil for what they are and analyze them
I can agree with this and also have the perspective that AoT was poorly written. I don't think most people critiquing AoT are doing so because the ending isn't Disney enough.
I stopped playing no man’s sky to acknowledge your superb song selection. That tool album was classic. Perfect song choice.
Now I wanna play. Time to dive in again lol
Resonance of Banksy destroying a painting at auction or Harvey Dent's speech about living long enough to see yourself become the villain seem apt. Like it was pointed out in the video, it would be almost TOO ingenious for the author to have planned it from the outset because even that gives, weirdly, elevates his work as having the intended effect. Of course, maybe the fact that there is discourse about him landing the plane at the destination, in a way, is his own form of redemption because it allows him to effectively get what he's always wanted...OR (worse) unintentionally creates an explanation for the work's genius. Talk about potentially getting mind-farked...did he want us to feel betrayed, or can he now claim that he wanted us to feel betrayed all along? Either way, he wins...right?
With the revelation that Eren's self-doubt is a reflection of Isayama's self-doubt, here's a new perspective on Attack on Titan. In both the story and on a meta level, AoT becomes a cautionary tale about the danger of self-doubt, impostor syndrome, self-sabotage etc.
Eren had the power of a god which allowed him to both see the future and directly influence past events. However, he used it for a dreadful plan because, in his words, he saw himself as "a garden-variety idiot who got his hands on power."
In the same vein, Isayama was overwhelmed by the success of his story and sabotaged the ending.
I can't tell you how many times I've personally fucked up opportunities due to the same kind of self-doubt. If such self-doubt can flatten 80% of the world, or completely destroy an otherwise phenomenal story, that's enough of a caution against letting self-doubt/sabotage consume you.
Did y'all hear that the Gundam creator had some shit to say about Isayama? Lmao
gundam? what did he say
can I have a link. I want to know what he said
I mentioned it in this video
The Gundam creator even hates Gundam.
I think you're mostly, if not just pretty much right on your interpretations of the ending. Eren being Isayama is really what ties things up.
In regards to the slave to freedom bit. Whenever you introduce time travel shit things stop making logical sense in the traditional way, but I think what isayama was going for was that once eren Saw the future, he was seeing the actions that "eren" as his full self would take, based on who he is. he was spectating the story, without being able to change anything. Difficult to explain, but it's sort of like how dr. Manhattan in watchment experiences time simultaneously in the future and the past but acts in paradoxical ways in the moment as if he doesn't know what's about to happen, despite actually knowing what is going to happen. In essense, Eren only doesn't have a choice because the type of character Eren cultivated for himself would never stop the rumbling. If he was a better person, this eren would have found a way, but the eren that takes all the actions was a slave to freedom, and freedom being an open world with all his enemies flattened. It's sort.of a contradiction of free will. Eren does have a choice, but eren wouldn't make that choice, because that's not who eren is. Hopefully that makes sense.
2:02 genuinely so cathartic every time you say “fuck Eren Yeager” because yeah, fuck that guy
I think the presence of the ambiguity really makes it feel real as to how it showcases that well, i feel that Isayama does not want take sides with anybody in the character’s ideology at all. Most of the anime’s message is all up to interpretation and as an anime trying to achieve that, it definitely delivered. Opposed to giving the best answers, it doesn’t give any bits of what is righteous when it comes to big conflicts.
For me, it’s hard to hate AOT since it was my first anime so my nostalgia for it is super high 8 will always love it to some degree but honestly, I feel like time skip was a mistake. Isayama basically expanded the world by 100 times yet the amount of chapters time skip has is way less then pre timeskip(which was a way smaller world). I don’t know, I just feel like the time skip conflict needed to be flesh out waaayyy more and hate how contrived the conflict is.