Top 5 Muscle Cars; the Bentley Broke; Q&A - TST Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2024
- What's a muscle car? What are the top 5 of all time? That's what we're discussing today. From the '60s to present day and every decade in between, Matt Farah and Zack Klapman have their own lists. Do any overlap? Do their cars fit the definition of muscle car? We'll see. Plus, Matt's used Bentley is back in the shop.
Recorded February 12, 2024
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Развлечения
The podcasts are better when you have a topic, gives you more to vibe off
36:00 topic start
Loving the new episodes with a themed discussion. I used to only tune in for episodes with guests but definitely enjoying the changes to the show. Thanks for the entertainment, guys.
All 1970 Mopars from a design perspective. Dart/Duster/Challenger/Cuda/Super Bee/Road Runner/Charger/300. The entire lineup was bonkers. Insane colors, 340/383/440 six packs and Hemis. Glorious. Oh, and the Superbird.
Back when the Magnums punched as hard on the street as the Hemis did on the drag strips/ovals.
The Australian Chrysler Valiants were also super cool. A fun rabbit hole for US mopar guys to look into.
@NXT_LVL 440 is honestly one of the best engines built, period. 383s a bulletproof daily too...the 4.6L 2V Ford of its day
1.1970 chevelle SS
2.1968 dodge charger
3.1970 Camaro Split Bumper RS
4. Buick Grand National
5.1996 Impala SS
My all time favorite was also the most powerful: 1970 Chevelle SS LS6. 450 hp (underrated ) and 500 tq. Gorgeous, beastly. During Hot Rod magazine acceleration testing, it famously spun the tires on EVERY UPSHIFT, even 3rd to 4th. They spent a paragraph describing how delicate it was to launch due to the torque. Forged crank and pistons. All the best stuff. Hemi Cuda gets the attention but the SS was a proper and worthy rival.
70 Hemicuda, LS6 Chevelle and GSX 455 were the kings of 1970.
1. 1970 Challenger T/A
2. 1969 Olds 442
3. 1970 Plymouth Duster
4. 1965 Shelby GT-350
5. 1971 Trans Am 455
All street Superbirds had vinyl tops to cover the giant plug they had to put in around the back window that was specific to these cars. Rather than lead and filler it in nicely, they just slapped a vinyl roof on it.
I have watched enough of Tyler Hoovers videos to know the Bentley would be a bad daily. There’s a reason so many of these cars are low miles.
Past performance doesn't indicate future success for sure but uhhhh Hoovie scared me off those cars for life lol, it's the one car he owned the longest while putting the fewest miles on it. I genuinely think that's got to count for something
Hoovie gets horrible vehicles. He's a failure of a used car dealer. I stopped watching him because he doesn't know much.
It’s a very nice expensive daily 😂
He does it for the views...his whole concept is that he buys bad cars...wouldn't be fun if he bought good ones
@@nathangreen900
Matt's approach on vehicles is very different from Tyler's...he doesn't buy the "cheapest" one on sale...he buys a good example and then spends the money upfront that's needed to make it good to the level he is comfortable with. Like all vehicles, these will work if you don't try and cheap out on buy and fixes - doing either one will be a chance of disaster and doing both will kill you...
Love the shows hovie and his team puts out but different starting point and ending points
To make it easy a muscle car has a V8. My top 5 in no order (all manuals): 5th Gen Z28 / 6th Gen SS 1LE / ZL1 1LE / GT350R / CT5-V Blackwing. I believe all of the above are equipped with the TREMEC TR-6060 with the exception of the GT350R which is equipped with a TR-3160. Honourable mention goes to the Dark Horse. These are already relatively recent but hey, they are the best drivers cars.
That's interesting on the mileage restrictions. One German manufacturer told me I could drive as much as I wanted, but I couldn't leave the state, then a Japanese manufacturer told me I could drive anywhere as long as I didn't exceed 700 miles.
1. 68' Vette L88
2. 70' Chevelle SS
3. 70' Camaro SS
4. 68' Challenger
5. 70' Buick GS
You know that Saleen S7 question got me thinking… Smoking Tire should do “revisit” episodes… especially around some of the older tuners cars (not Grassroot or DIY) but older Saleen type and Tuner shop cars that maybe you did a video already on but they are +5yrs old now… I know i’d b down for watching that!
Or even going back to your old videos that did well and ask the question “Are they still that good? (Or bad)” even if they are just good oem cars. I know press fleets are long gone, but flex that Smoking Tire muscle and ask the question to open crowd “Does anyone want to lend us XYZ car for a day?” - Free Car Detailing and tank of Gas (or something) as a thanks
Just sayin’ … I’d watch it. Also get Zach in the car, fresh POV and Matt’s “revisited” POV … Sprinkle them in over all the other stuff you do. Long time watcher wanted to share.
Ima have to lean more towards Zack’s’ list. I’m enjoying the ranking podcasts so far
E46 M3 owner proves the adage - misery loves company. And that there is maybe no greater joy than a friend who also dailies something of questionable reliability.
As an Australian its a bitter sweet feeling hearing how good the Cadillac blackwing is when its rootes are actually in the Commadore. Cadillac in general ended up shareing alot with Holden dureing its revitalisation and building apon the platform.
1. 1970 Plymouth Hemi Cuda
2. 1970 Chevrolet LS6 Chevelle SS
3. 1964 Pontiac GTO
4. 1969 Ford Mustang BOSS 302
5. 1968 Plymouth Roadrunner
65 Corvette (W/hubcaps) 365 hp 327 /4 speed
69 Road Runner 440 / speed
64 Riviera w/Wildcat 465
63 Polara w/cross-ram 426 max-wedge / 4speed
70 Boss 429 Mustang w/ 4speed
The Super Stock Mopars looked and were hairy as hell
My top 5 muscle cars:
5: widebody Challenger Scatpack. The hellcat is cool but its too much. Scat is more than enough and looks just as good. I really want one in a stick.
4: 72 Chevelle SS. Perfect muscle car. Almost everyone knows what it is. They look good in any color but my fav was green. Stick or auto I'd take either one.
3: 70 dodge Challenger T/A Big, wide, chonky. Love the vibe it gives off in that trim and I'd want to just send one hard asf.
2: 1972 Holden Monaro GTS 350. Australian muscle car and it looks good in pink.
1: 1970 Ford Mustang Mach 1. Such a cool fuckin car and my first introduction to muscle cars. Shaker hoods are the jam and the slits by the headlights look so cool. The one i sat in was like a light brown/cream color so i don't know if it was oem but it paired well with the black stripes and shaker.
I’m an hour into this and what fun this episode has been!
Zack says muscle cars are about fun and the man is correct. Generally I look at most of the cars mentioned and think “wow, that looks really heavy and must handle like a tank.” The fun and appeal is legit. Nicely done, gents!
Olds 442 w-30 deserves honorable mention
Do a best drivers car episode!
1 Tuthill 911K
2 Singer DLS
3 992 911 S/T
4 GMA T.50
5 Ferrari F50
6 Exige S 260 Final Edition
7 Mustang GT350R
8 Camaro ZL1 1LE
9 5th Gen Camaro Z28
10 6th Gen Camaro SS 1LE
14:13 for Bentley breaking
If you buy wheels for the Bentley might I suggest 22" spinners?
TIS rims or Forgiato
We need Donk Bentley
The MAIN topics you guys are doing are great definitely gets me more interested and i loved this muscle car one comparing each others guesses was great!
Top 5 muscle car list... One of my favorite TST episodes. Here's my list:
1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1. Aluminum big block, seriously under-rated at 425HP. A rare few of these were available with RS package.
1973 Pontiac Firebird Trans-Am 455 Super Duty. Big torque, semi-decent handling for an early muscle car, and that awesome 2nd gen TA dashboard.
1971 Plymouth HEMI 'Cuda convertible. RARE, VALUABLE, and GORGEOUS.
1969 Dodge Charger HEMI R/T. Sexiest car body ever produced (the split grille and long tail lights makes it better than the '68).
1968 Dodge Dart HEMI L023 factory drag car. The most all-business, no frills, homologated muscle car ever. The seats weren't adjustable, and the windows were operated with a basic strap.
Thank you for keeping up this style of podcast, we are all diggin it! I think it also helps when people comment for the YT algorithm, maybe or maybe not.
Wasn't the '70 LS-6 Chevelle SS the most powerful? 450hp/500tq ?
Same for that year corvette with the same motor. They also lied about the HP. It was closer to 550Hp.
Isn't GMs uber powerful stuff always murky option packs you had to know a guy to get though vs you could just order a Hemi Cuda at the dealer. Just how it seemed to me, like GM will put the race engine in the car but they are doing it under the table.
The 450 hp LS6 was never offered in the Corvette, only the Chevelle. The most powerful Vette in this era would have been the 67-69 L88 and/or the 69 ZL1 (of which only 2 were built).
The power steering system on the Bentley likely uses ATF. If you used power steering fluid that could have made the seal issues worse. I went through the same thing on my current daily that was in storage when the previous owner had it. It needed basically all of the seals in the system done and someone had used power steering fluid in place of ATF at some point. Terminator cobra is still slept on surprisingly. The body package was designed by Camilo Pardo and I think they will have a good bit of value in the future.
The Million Mile Lexus had this system too. I recall Matt going through so many power steering pumps and alternators on that thing because people who borrowed it would add PSF instead of ATF. Which ate the seals and leaked onto the alternator.
I thought these needed CHF11S
@@Tangelos RUclips wont let me post the thread but you can find information on the Rolls Royce forums speaking to the fluid type.
@@deathcab4booty I think those also have the dual rotor pump which drives the radiator fan. 2x the potential for leaks.
The Charger might be on the way out, but hey, at least the name is still going to make sense in this new era we're going into.
1. 93 foxbody
2. 68 nova
3. 64 Chevy biscayne 4dr
4. 06 GTO
5. 6th gen Camaro
There was in fact a V12 semi-truck. Look up a Detroit diesel 12v92, and they still sound pretty sweet
As Matt has openly said he dislikes the 1960-70s era of Muscle Car in terms of handling, which was really never in the the whole original recipe... was refreshing to hear his list, though would he actually enjoy driving them as original numbers matching of the era? Baby step... Baby steps.
I like the idea of the patch, it would also be neat if they changed the shape slightly, have the circle in the center, but add the wings with event details that looks akin to the official WRC style rally event badges.
My submission for "louder is better" engine is mostly outside the car world. Multi-cylinder two stroke engines. Not your neighbourhood kid's annoying pit bike. But a good CVT, tuned pipe(s) two stroke sitting at max RPM and echoing its call for miles is something special. Think all the ear piercing ferocity of a rotary near limiter, but in a steady, purposefully selected note.
Some sim setups are starting to add direct drive systems to pedals and although it isn’t there yet simulated clutch bite point and feel is definitely coming.
The C4 ZR1 engine (LT5) was not a “boat engine”. It was designed and engineered by Lotus and GM and then Mercury Marine was contracted to produce them. I believe they did use them in some boats but in no way was it designed as a “boat engine”.
I think Mercury had more experience with aluminum engines at the time.....
The gt500 doesnt have ccb’s. Just massive steel ones
I bought a 2021 Camaro ZL1, it has the TR-6060 6-speed and 1LE carbon wing but isn't a 1LE. Its comfortable enough for long road trips but more capable then needed for any road in the US. I've pulled 1.2G in corners at tail of the dragon on it's OE street tires. In 2019 or 2020, they added a rearview camera like the C8 has, which for me solves the rear visibility problem. I cannot think of an upgrade from this car that checks the manual box, the handling box, the power box while looking and sounding as good as it does and being as dead reliable as it has been.
When are you having Rob F. on the show?
Tapes sound fine. Analog AF!!!
Look up, Jaguar XJS V12 Targa Tasmania. Incredible sound and good quality video.
1:03:51 no corvettes on the list? Outta curiosity do yall not consider corvettes muscle cars or just no love for them?
I personally would have had a 65 or maybe a split window on the list.
Maybe it’s too nice/expensive for the list to be considered muscle car?
Pony car is just a smaller muscle car that handles for a lack of better words. The flexibility is what allowed them to survive for so long.
Ford Voodoo V8, that engine doesn't sound bad at any rpm.
Simple and easy mix up but... It was actually the 1969 Charger Daytona that was the first american car to be wind tunnel tested and is still shockingly aerodynamic considering its age.
The Superbird had minor revisions done to the nose cone and wing but was not wind tunnel tested. Still an iconic muscle car. Very interesting to hear the stories and details of their development and variations.
Technically it was the Charger 500 that was first in the wind tunnel. They actually did some preproduction work on the 66 Charger in the wind tunnel as well. They were working on a 71 Roadrunner with a wing and nose too, but abandoned development after NASCAR made them run a 305 on any wing car.
Both my dads 91 and my 92 jaguars did the same thing with the power steering. I daily my jags and they are great daily drivers. Got mine with 92k and now its at 150k. The seals at the boots started leaking after driving mine like i drive my bmw in the backroads.
1:18:30 The normal solution is to use the football/hockey stadium business model of renting out garages, seats as a lease per year. We would also find it better for customers to associate actual races, so free tickets to a Cup or F1 race at the track they could drive themselves or watch. This allows it to link with Motorsport targeting as that changes with budgets, look at Audi,WRC IMSA DTM, WEC and now Dakar. The pork experience centre is not cheap to build and you can't rent it to other car makers or racers during the week so it requires a huge depth of customers who might use it once a month or a just a few times, but not every day and that drain is constant. I know the launch or package weekends struggle to fill most slots even if they give them away to top customers or staff.
AC Cobra, specially the hard top race version.
I think our RS was first between Chevrolet and Porsche. Camaro was late 60s. Carrera RS was 73. Even though they're different meanings Rally Sport vs Rennsport.
1. AMC Javelin SST TransAm Edition
2. 1965 Shelby GT350
3. 1964 289 Slab side Cobra
4. 1963.5 Galaxie 500XL ?Muscle car?
5. 2025 Mustang GTD
I know you said sedan, but I'd say get a Cayenne.
These Top 5 shows feel forced just for the algorithm
EV’s are going away before ICE’s, just gotta clean the fuel
gto is grand touring over. referring to over a certain displacement. i think over 3 liters. gtu grand touring under...ect.
Didn't Matt say he wanted to get out of the early adopter trap? 1st year bugs from Focus RS and Mach E weren't enough, I guess.
Zach is a island driver that is a person who hates or lacks using headlights at night. That's what I call them an island driver.
Lol, no menrion of the Jeep Trackhawk? 😉
I'm team Zack, CT5V is def a muscle car.
I think Matts car buying history with the Bentley, Countach, Ferrari, and Safari Porsche, is no matter how pristine an example you think you found, expect it to be in the shop.
I think there's a misconception of assigning "shtbox" or how "awful" musclecars drive. For their period and purpose, they were fine and as good as anything else in their respective price range. Not everything is going to or needs to handle like a 911 on a canyon road.
Good lists for both, but would have probably substituted the regular 68-69 Roadrunner vs Superbird. More accessible and people actually wanted them. SBs often sat unsold on dealer lots through 1972. Also, the 87-93 Mustang GT....launched a $2 Billion aftermarket industry and kept the Mustang a V8 RWD platform.
The A12 cars > bird/daytona
I'm not sure if I hope the Macan EV goes well or bad for Matt. Happy motoring or more content???
Hot take - the e46 m3 never sounded that good lol.... Or maybe people agree to that? 🤷🏿♂️
Pure hypothetically... Couldn't transition add wheel power by virtue of being more efficient? Of course it would not add engine power or power measured on flywheel, but lets say if gears are cut differently and there is less friction and less heat creation in transmition itself this might eliminate part of drivetrain loses and add power... I doubt it would be 50HPthough but perhaps it would be measurable... I have no idea how much power transmition eats compared to the rest of the drivetrain.
Oh bro i hope you built it better than the one you described... that was so sad.
1:14:38 ah haha, hilarious Z
Zack is so present but Matt seems like he is just waiting for his next turn to talk. What Super Bowl commercial did Zack's friend direct?
1:23:30 that's to me is a lack of knowledge in cars and mechanics which leads to misinformation
Plymouth built the Superbird to get Petty back from Ford. They pi55ed him off because they wouldn't let him run a Dodge Charger 500 and Plymouth wasn't going to have a Daytona equivelant. The 68 Roadrunner was a brick and not competitive on super speedways. Plymouth said the Hemi was enough and if he could find a better deal, go take one. He went down the road to Ford and had a deal by lunch. Fun fact, Petty never won at Daytona or Talladega in the Superbird, but the #40 team car of New England driver Pete Hamilton did.
Ivan Capote asked a question that was facile at best. We all know he can do better.
Macan EV, by way of Benched Bentley! 😂
I will put it in referencewon't worry, mine, that is, Mr. Winston, even the rooster does know he becoming he'd be drinking every night, get home Ao problemand I've been around a Caribbean. Everybody on them Islands knows each other so that AKI term it island driver ha. Ha ha ha l o l and I l Live in the land of flowers and in the last few years, we have many, many, many island drivers after sunset. I don't know if it's happened across the united states yet , but it's definitely here in the land of flowers
You guys really shouldn’t be picking these.🤔
Ballin out on those government unemployment checks
Weirdly I’ve never considered the GNX a muscle car, American Tuner or being more akin to the Daytona/Roadrunner homologation specials being straight performance focused
Attitude + doesn't turn + fast =Muscle car esc atleast, but yes its also a homologation model aswell
CYBER MATT
U2 is the worst band in history