@@mitchjames9350esp 2:8-10”for by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of yourselves. It is the Gift of God Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” So salvation its self is by faith alone but James 2 “faith is dead without works” but faith comes before works. OSAS is true John 10:27-28”my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they will follow me. And I give unto them enternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” you can’t lose your salvation because if your really saved then you will not run away and you will have works. Saying faith is lazy is one blasphemous to God himself because it’s the only way one is saved and once saved you will have good works from the power of God bit of yourself because your incapable of doing it on your own. I love you brother but your foolish remarks that one’s faith being lazy isn’t true. Though if one says he is saved and has no works let that fool be accursed for he does not know the lord.
@@mitchjames9350sanctification is the work. Faith alone is what is required for salvation through. Are you calling God lazy? Maybe you should tell Him to re-write the Bible
@@yalechuk6714 lol St Paul in the letter to the Galatians, Augustine 5th century Psalm 31:7, John Chrysostom who said” to have brought humanity, more senseless than stones, to the dignity of angels simply through bare words, and faith alone, without any hard work is indeed a rich and glorious mystery. It is as if you were to take a dog, consumed with hunger and disease, foul and loathsome to see, unable to move lying passed out, and make him all at once into a human being and to display him upon the royal throne”, Clement of Rome. The Publican in Luke 18 he went away justified without performing any works of penance or any sacraments or rituals. His justification was complete. There many more and I believe You’ve been lied to. You will stand before God one day boasting about your works and your supposed goodness He will say depart from me I never knew you. Get right with Him while we still have time.
See Galatians where it's clear that a person is justified by faith alone. Good works are a reflection of true faith. What James is saying there relates to this because, justification is to throw faith alone. The whole thesis of Galatians is that faith alone justifies and that faith plus works is a false gospel.
Stop taking jamws out of context. James is saying you are justified in the eyes of man through your works. The works are evidence to others eyes. Works don't get you into heaven. Thr Bible says your good works are filthy rags before the lord. Jesus said there is none good but God
The Protestant position is “faith ALONE (don’t read James 2 pls)” and anything else is a false gospel which is no gospel at all that is works salvation, but then they say that works are still necessary in faith alone but they’re only fruit of a changed inner life, even though not having these works will still send you to hell, but it’s not because the works do anything other than prove your love, because apparently love requires works, but since we’re not allowed to admit love requires works we just say that it’s an evidence of genuine repentance and the repentance itself comes from love, that way the obedience can be disconnected from the faith through repentance which is a work and an evidence so our whole system doesn’t come crashing down. When I started to really realize just how much mental gymnastics are going on with this “works are absolutely not required and to say they are is the worst heresy and pure Antichrist, BUT you can’t just live however you want and claim to be a Christian, therefore good works are an evidence that you require to be saved even though they play no part in the saving but only as evidence, which even includes repentance itself which is literally a requirement of salvation, and if you ask the Calvinists even faith itself is a work, so you see there is no good work that contributes to your salvation, not even repentance and faith, because predestination. Would you like Lutheran Single-style Predestination, or Calvinist Original Double Predestination? We also have a new flavor, Calvinist Single Predestination with Compatibilism.” Besides, I would point out that, while faith that works through love is a totally accurate expression, we’re not saved BY that but THROUGH that. We’re saved BY grace. Through faith that works through love. That’s what I’ve started saying now instead of “We’re saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the Scriptures alone, for the glory of God alone.” If someone asks how the Bible says we’re saved, it says we’re saved by grace through faith that works in love. And that’s three parts, not four. 1) God’s grace saves us 2) it saves us through faith 3) the kind of faith grace saves through performs loving actions (pure, agapē love). Which is all “works” means anyway, in the broadest sense and not when Paul is talking about works of the law specifically or something, just means any action you take. So again, Protestants literally don’t even believe that someone with no works is saved, they just explain it so that the works don’t save you, just checking that you have the works there is part of the requirement, but you don’t get any credit for doing anything, just an everlasting reward.
@@littlefishbigmountain not just james. And if you truly follow and accept all scripture then you can't tell us to not quote james which dogmAtically says we are not justified by faith alone. And paul says we need a faith that worketh by charity. And Galations says we need," Faith expressing itself in love". Follow the bible
@@robertkolinsky1286 Exactly! Although their position isn’t actually not to read James 2, that was a bit of sardonic humor. The way they read it still squares with faith alone, funny enough, even though it literally says “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” Don’t ask me how they interpret how Abraham’s works perfected his faith, or how he was JUSTIFIED by works (especially this because that’s such a big yet specific term for Protestants, see Penal Substitutionary Atonement Theory for its legal usage), that this work in question is said to have fulfilled the Scripture that was already written about Abraham that declared him to have imputed righteousness (!!!), and literally that by works a man is justified, just like Rahab was justified by works too when she saved the Israelite spies, and that faith alone is a corpse without a soul in it, and that it actually cannot save anyone (that one’s from the hypothetical question in 2:14, to which the answer is obviously no.) because I don’t remember anymore how I used to read this passage literally saying the opposite of what it says just because I was trying to harmonize it with my preconceived notions of the Pauline epistles instead of asking if I got my theology right in the first place, not to mention where and who and when it came from
@@robertkolinsky1286 Yeah, raised “non-denominational”, which is ironically basically just Baptist but with different individuals in the congregation being different levels of “Pentecostal”. Our congregation though is thankfully not as disorderly as some such churches are, at least unless you go to youth events where sometimes people are encouraged to all just speak out in tongues at the same time with no interpretation (there almost never is) which is explicitly condemned in the churches in 1 Corinthians 14, not to mention “spontaneous” laughter which always creeped me out. ANYWAYS it could’ve been a loooot worse based on the other non-denominational/charismatic/“Pentecostal” churches I’ve been to over the years. Overall, at least the church I was raised in upheld basic morality (through the form of the 10 Commandments), that faith without works is dead, and matter of practical spirituality (for which reason James is actually a favorite in the church, as opposed to some Protestants who avoid it for some of the above reasons). It definitely could’ve been a lot worse. But, yeah, because of Sola Scriptura, I just kept digging and digging and questions gave me more questions, until I was questioning assumptions I never thought I’d question in a million years like, “Does the New Testament really teach that the Law of Moses contradicts the New Covenant?” or “Is it true the hell is eternal conscience torment?” or “Is the Trinity really biblical?”, and that’s after all the Reformation stuff itself that shocked me and really started to shake me up the more I looked into it like Calvinism, or the connections between the church I was raised in and the theology of Ulrich Zwingli and his students that even went beyond what he was willing to accept and even their influence on the Radical Reformation and the Anabaptists, etc. Basically Sola Scriptura led me to a point where I could not maintain any presuppositions of the Bible at all and essentially had to approach it actively forgetting almost everything I thought I knew. At some points, really all I had to hold on to was I knew God was real and raised Jesus from the dead to save sinners, which is thankfully enough hope to hang on to even in that crazy Descartes-ish expedition. I just kept praying for the Spirit of Truth to lead me into all truth and for God to help me rightly understand His word, not according to any private interpretation, in Jesus’ name. Although I’ve been led all around clinging to that prayer, Orthodoxy is the first thing that’s really making me crave to experience it, sometimes like a hunger sometimes like an itch, and when I’m in my home church now I just can’t get fully immersed in the worship like before. Even though I work the services actually atm, but I’m working on changing my line of work so I can go to a different church. There are a few Orthodox churches in town, and there’s a Greek Orthodox one my wife is apparently familiar with near the old college I went to downtown that she’s willing to go check out with me (but I need new work first!). I’m still praying about it, but long story short I’d still call myself an inquirer. For the moment I’m doing my research and looking for answers to any objections I might have from how I was raised or questions that may come up, I mean Eastern Orthodoxy is a huuuuuge paradigm shift from the Western paradigm in general, even more so Protestant, and more so one with memorial view of the Eucharist and a public declaration view of baptism and Pentecostalism. Despite all these “apostolic” preachers I started hearing in the last 10 or so years getting really popular (which thankfully I had been skeptical of) were so foreign to what any historical evidence of truly apostolic Christianity is. I still don’t know how I feel about this one, holy, catholic, apostolic church idea as it’s often presented though to be completely honest because as an Orthodox I’m not sure how to view other professing Christians. A lot of Orthodox say they long for union with Rome, as do they say in return, but they both seem to really be saying that the other must admit it was heretical for half of church history and the other was always the true church, which neither is willing to admit, and then the Oriental Orthodox (miaphysites) some say are saying the same thing as the Caledonian definition in different terms and that they’re following Cyril of Alexandria’s formulation before it got confused by the Tome of Leo since the one nature formulation predated the two nature formulation (even studying the history of the councils leaves me confused on the point tbh, as I can’t seem to understand the continuity), and then the Church of the East get dismissed as Nestorian but then I’ve even heard that after talks with the churches some have determined that the supposed teachings of Nestorius got exaggerated over time by his opponents and became straw men and that if you study the primary documents of Nestorius he’s not saying what some people claim he’s saying, etc., and then there’s every Protestant I’ve ever known, are they all going to hell? Or can I even call them Christian? I still don’t understand how all that stuff works. Sorry for ranting! Haha. I think I had some thoughts I may have needed to get out. I know you were thanking me on coming home to the true church. Truth is, I’m not there yet! But I feel very, very close 😊 It really seems like I’m gettin’ to the end of the journey, but we shall see. In my life, as long as I’ve not stopped praying for God’s will, it will be done sooner or later.
If salvation is justified by faith alone, then why did Jesus tell the rich young man in Luke 18:18-30 to follow His commandments in order to have eternal life?
I always thought it was because he knew the young man wouldn’t do it. He was forcing the man to confront his lack of true devotion to God in all things, and thus his need for a Savior.
@@cbtam4333 I used yo think that too, until I became orthodox. God gives us the work we need to do to obtain salvation. Its a very personal question “What must I do?” Salvation does not come as a cookie cutter one size fits all package. Look at paul… 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;† 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Press Toward True Righteousness 12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.† This verse is describing salvation
@@terrifictomm John the Baptist got his head chopped off for telling King Harod it was wrong to marry his brother's wife. Harod's wife overheard and wanted his head after that and got it on a platter.
@@apo.7898 Apostle Paul by the guidance of the Holy Spirit wrote 13 Epistles, healed people, established churches, defended the Gospel, established the very foundation for the church, the list goes on and on…he worked every day for Christ.
They were saved if their faith was genuine which then led them to do good works, which is the way it should be for every Christian. If they just focused on good works without having faith they were not saved, even our greatest works are like filthy rags to God.
@@tommysuriel good deeds come of a good intention, which God loves. There is no way to argue that alms of a sinner are worthless to men in need of help. Only God knows the inner convictions that motivate, and I daresay He’d be lenient with a faithless man that did actual good for his neighbor. One who lacked love though he had perfectly correct faith would come up short.
@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 The problem with what you're saying is, the Bible is clear in that God hates sin, and every human being sins, no matter how much good they do, they're sinners and also evil people do good things all the time, they're still evil. In the Old testament God had Israel sacrifice animals for the redemption of their sins, Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice so that whosoever believes in him will be saved and forgiven of their sins once and for all, this is what the Bible teaches, without faith in Jesus we're all wretched sinners to God and can't enter the Kingdom of heaven
@@tommysuriel those are some good points but Jesus’ work is narrowed down too much. He conquers death as God by taking on an undeserved punishment as man. If he were a mere man it would achieve nothing. He ‘becomes sin’ like the goat for Azazel, but also like the one for Yahweh, whose blood covers the altar and people renewing them in life.
So you’re basically saying the oldest church’s in the world were wrong about the gospel all this while for nearly 2000 years and Christ failed to preserve his church and we had to wait for you to come and teach the world the right gospel ? Give me a break
Explain ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 'not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Explain James 2:14-17 "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save hime? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food and one of you says to them 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled.' but do not give them things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." Even the demons believe and tremble. 2:24 You see then that man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 1 Corinthians 13:2 "...and though I have all faith so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. Sola Fide is not biblical.@@jeffreyterrio5665
Ah yes, St James the Apostle who wrote that we can’t be saved by faith alone has to be wrong… because your 50 year old church says so. We Orthodox and Catholics have the true dogma and you can’t deny it.
10 verses about salvation by faith alone: Ephesians 2,8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Romans 11,6 (NLT): 6 And since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is-free and undeserved. Acts 16,31 (ESV): 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Romans 3,28 (ESV): 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 4,5 (ESV): 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 5,1 (ESV): 5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Galatians 2,16 (ESV): 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 3,24 (ESV): 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Ephesians 1,13 (ESV): 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Philippians 3,9 (ESV): and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith. Read your bibles and don't rely on traditions or men.
@@barryallen119 Thank you for your reply. However, these are completely obvious statements. Of course you need faith. But why did Christ come? Because he felt like it? It was it to save our souls. I think you should already know that… but St James the brother of our lord said, we cannot be saved without works. So then why feed the poor, why clothe the needy, why visit people in prison and care for the sick if I can just say “I love Jesus” and I can be saved. What is the point of the commandments, if ignorant Protestant’s will use it for their self righteousness. Please think about this. And by the way, Christ is the church, he has administered the priesthood which has been running since the time of Pentecost. They gave us the bible. Please understand that our church goes back 2000 years ago.
@@Audleyweir11111 If we’re going to say that we are saved by works, we must qualify whose works. We are not saved by our own works, however meritorious they are in our own eyes. We are saved solely by the work of Christ on our behalf. His death and His resurrection are the works that save us. We receive our Savior by faith (John 1:12). What about the thief on the cross? He never did any works or did go to church. Jesus saved him cause he had faith. Read Hebrews 11, which shows that all the heroes like Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham etc. were saved by faith alone. Romans 3,27-28 (ESV): Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Who is this Protestant to be saying the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are teaching False Christianity? He has a lot of nerve and he is wrong
11 verses about salvation by faith alone: Ephesians 2,8-9 (ESV): For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Romans 11,6: But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. Romans 3,27-28 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 4,5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness Romans 5,1 (ESV): Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Galatians 2,16 (ESV): yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 3,24 (ESV): So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Romans 3,21-22 (ESV): But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it- 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. Philippians 3,9 (ESV): and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith. Acts 16,31 (ESV): And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Ephesians 1,13 (ESV): In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit Hebrews 11,4 (ESV): By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.
@@DF-ei9kc The Bible never mentions the trinity yet we all believe it. Why are you so narrow-minded and disobedient? Obey the bible and not your church doctrine.
@@brianbrowning5680 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? James 2:14 RSVCI What would you say about Ephesians 2:10, Galatians 5:6, James 2:24, Matthew 12:37 & 25:31-46 and Revelation 19:8 among many other scriptures such as hebrews that says by faith Noah *built the Ark* etc.
I've read the New Testament, which has many letters from the first century church. Repeatedly it is said we are justified by grace/faith, not by works. So you are wrong, and the inerrent word of God shows so. See the scripture Brian Browning posted please, and BELIEVE those scriptures.
@@PaulyTater Pauly, I agree that the entire Bible is the Word of God; and the entire Bible is true. Where is it you think we disagree? yes, the entire gospel sheds light on the gospel. But the gospel message itself is what we share when we evangelise the lost: The death and burial, deity and resurrection of Jesus Christ - and what this means for God and us.
@@invictus9976 youre reading a James which says works are required for salvation? Its not in there. Faith and works go together, and that doesn't mean works earn any part of salvation. To have the arrogance to suggest you had ANYTHING to do with your own salvation is denying Christ of His true grace and power.
@@easytiger35, arrogance and worse is denying the Bible, changing what it says and accommodating it to suit our own beliefs, and that is exactly what many if not all cults and groups do. I'm not going to write the whole thing here, but you could very easily read James 2:14-26. 14 reads: What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but doesn't have works? 17 reads as follows: "faith without works is dead" James even gives an example about works by helping others. No wonder so many deniers of faith/works, have taken this book from the Bible. Please read it and let me know what you think. I don't want you to think that I am being rude or that my intention is to attack you, not at all. Peace be with you and all in the name of Jesus.
@@invictus9976 you just dont understand it. No one says works is wrong. Works happen as a believer, naturally. But to think you earn any part of salvation is wrong. Service is what we are called to do as Christians, but it is not what saves us. You have to be able to see how they both exist without one being the one that saves you.
Those who love me... those who already love Him. Who are they? Those who are already saved and have received the gift of salvation by believing in Jesus Christ the Son of God. You have been kept from knowing you can know you are saved. It says it in the scriptures. Why weren't you taught it and why was it kept a secret?
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast. You can play these little infantile rhetorical games but I'll stick to what the bible actually says
@@danielomitted1867 Bro Read Eph. 2:1-10 and break it down line by line. Don't stop at verse 9 lol. There's a home run in v10 that so many reformers love to ignore. Go and do good works, God expects it of you.
@@guts2186 I have many times. Your rebuttal there refutes nothing I said. I'm not anti-lordship so I have no idea why you're responding to me as if that's what I said. Faith is the sole requirement for salvation. Then having been saved we do good works because we're saved. Not to be saved, nor to add to our salvation nor the merit salvation. If you want to try to refute the doctrine of faith alone and the reformers why don't you try learning what it actually is first. Because you obviously haven't
10 verses about salvation by faith alone: Ephesians 2,8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Romans 11,6 (NLT): 6 And since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is-free and undeserved. Acts 16,31 (ESV): 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Romans 3,28 (ESV): 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 4,5 (ESV): 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 5,1 (ESV): 5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Galatians 2,16 (ESV): 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 3,24 (ESV): 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Ephesians 1,13 (ESV): 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Philippians 3,9 (ESV): and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
@@batemanwave It is GOD who causes repentance not us. By his gift of grace, we put our faith in Him. Turning towards Him and away from sin is not two different things, it is one motion. Tha thief on tha cross realized He deserved death as all humans do, and sought Jesus forgiveness.
in the goats and sheep parable it is laid clearly that people who didnt know god but did good things in their life and help others can be saved , while some who had faith but did no good works are cast in the lake of fire it is layed clearly in several places in the bible that deeds and actions are the criteria in the day of judgement and not wether you believed in Jesus or not
@@mariolis This is wrong too. You have to read the overall statements of the Bible about man's salvation. The Bible clearly says both is needed the FAITH + GOOD WORKS. We inherit the eternal life in Christ neither ONLY through faith nor ONLY through good works.
Yeah, and faith alone is heresy because faith without works is dead. All Protestants, especially Evangelicals for a perfect example, who believe in this are heretics.
Im born and raised protestant....im joining orthodox so i can go to church and clwanse my soul for jesus and never ever worry about prosperity grifters or prise flags in my church
only Jesus can cleanse your soul, go back and read the bible, the orthodox church is a works based theology, this is not biblical in any sense. Islam is another works based religion.
@@claydiddy63able 🥴 Evangelical Christianity is more islam like than Orthodoxy. It’s a religion based on a book. I reiterate “based on a book”. A book is not Christ, you cannot have a relationship with a book. The One Holy Apostolic Orthodox Church canonized the scriptures for teaching doctrine and liturgical use. Its kinda sad all you have that is remotely apostolic tradition is scriptures and you only have theory to interpret it through at that. No thanks I rather not seek the living among the dead. Church is just a glorified book club with yall.
I Believe you are missing the point - Once a believer, works are necessary but According to St. Paul, Ephesians 2: 8 -10 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
Literally James 2:14-26. 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also 💀💀💀
Well, if we are being absolutely literal both of the examples given in James are people being justified by doing one thing. And technically Abraham didn’t actually commit any act. He simply believed God. So, how literally are we to take James?
@@1920s it's quite simple. James is not contradicting Paul in anyway. He says that we are saved by faith but the works are an extension of faith because how else would you express your faith. That's it. The works themselves do not inherently save you. But they are a means to express your faith. Matthew 7:21-23 And as for the works themselves, they're very simple. John 14:15. It's quite simple. If we are saved by faith without works then we simply would not have to repent. We could just sin boldly. But that is clearly not the case.
@@RajVeesa I’m not saying there is a contradiction. I’m saying the two examples given in the text show people that were justified by doing one thing, and the thing that Abraham did that justified him was belief. It doesn’t say Abraham was justified by repenting, giving to the poor, fasting or anything else. He was justified by believing God. Which, if not the same thing, is very close to “faith”.
@@johnsixfourteefour629you wouldn’t have the Bible without the church. The church preserved the scriptures, gives historical witness to them, and compiled the canon. Paul says the CHURCH is the pillar and ground of truth.
@@johnsixfourteefour629 this is a dumb argument. You believe in a book uphold by the church (ur essentially trusting the church on this issue) if u don't trust the church why did u pick up the bible instead of the Quran???
@@johnsixfourteefour629 Church tradition is what people relied on for hundreds of years, not that "set of books" that no one had access to. Even the authors of those books didn't call their writings Scripture...of course we do today, but just making a point that the importance of Church traditions are what Christians relied on before the Canon was assembled.
@@GMART50 sure, but he won't count our sins against us. Since he paid for them all on the cross according to Titus 2:14. And even Romans 11:6 saids "if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace." Which means we don't have to do good works in his grace for salvation 😁
@@zaynewhitmore wrong again, Hebrews 10:26,27 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
@@GMART50 yeah you have to read it in context. The Jews were tempted to back to Judaism and reject Christ, so the sin he's talking about is the sin of rejection. And we also know that 1 john 2:1 saids "my little children I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin, but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the father. Jesus Christ the righteous." Context is key
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8:44 Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41) Satan does not have a honest and saving faith. He worships only himself and cannot repent.
I'm not sure that's what he was saying. I don't know all MacArthur personally believes but I have attended like evangelical churches and there is huge emphasis on the fruits of your faith being displayed through good works. So unless I a missing something I believe the only real distinction being made here is about the requirements for salvation... is it faith alone or faith + works? I'm still praying through this as I'm not sure what I believe. I've always struggled with the sinner's prayer theology that states simply accepting Jesus into your heart saves you. Know lots of people who did that in high school or college and the rest of their lives were lived far from that faith.
He actually teaches Lordship salvation and is often called a works heretic because he teaches that true Christians will have works. He is not an anti-nomian.
@@shanebassett8024 Faith without works is dead. Once saved you should have a desire through the Spirit to do good works! IE show me your faith by your good works, but you were saved before you could do anything that pleases God.
That’s very convenient considering the kind of “works” JM exhibited in dealing with the case of a wife and young children in his congregation being violently abused by her husband where he publicly shamed and disfellowshipped the victim (who was forced to pursue legal protection from her husband) and supported and enabled the abuser as the example of “godliness” (who ended up tried and convicted for abuse of his children and got 21 years to life in CA prison. He was just denied parole at 21 years and will do another 10 since the parole board found he remained a violent sadist who “weaponized religion” vs. his victims). JM is apparently unrepentant to this day and has never apologized nor sought forgiveness for this abject failure of love in his church, Sadly, but not surprisingly, there are numerous testimonies that this is a long-standing pattern in his dealing with others in similar situations in his church.
Imagine saying “you know those churches that follow the Apostles and were around for the first 1500 years? Well, they were wrong the entire time.” The Sola Fide folks can take heart in knowing that they don’t have to pray, love one another, repent of their sins, ask for forgiveness, or take care of the less fortunate because they “believe.”
Protestant innovation at its finest. The one place in the entire Bible that uses the words “faith” and “alone” together says, it’s not by faith alone, James 2:24. Maybe someone knows, what year had John’s group started? And when had Christ formed His Church?
This is exactly why I left “Protestantism” and the many denominations I was once part of, because I tried to prove to my new wife that her catholic faith was wrong, I started to look at history and saw that I was wrong. MacArthur really believed that the church the Apostles started, literal man that walked with God, was wrong, is mind blowing.
Good thing he didnt mention the oriental orthodox which not only believe grace through faith lest anyone should boast but also had the bible in all kinds of languages since 400AD. Luther should have just reunited with the oriental orthodox instead of splintering into 2000 denominations
Jesus quite literally commanded people to be baptized and Baptists tell everyone that baptism is not an essential part of salvation. There is no Bible for that that is purely man-made doctrine. Most protestants and Anglicans, Catholics what have you, all ignore the book the acts of the apostles. Acts 2:38 is for everyone. Yeah Baptist tell people oh that was for the establishing of the early church. Except that’s not Bible again we’re seeing man-made doctrine. The sinners prayer accepting Jesus into your heart is not salvation. If you believe in Jesus, you would believe what the word commands is to do. Go back to acts 2:38. There’s one lord one faith, so if you believe in salvation, by faith alone, then why didn’t Peter in Act 2:38 tell them to just believe in Christ and they’ll be saved?
Hilarious how it goes right over his brain. 2 apostolic churches with history back to Christ believe the same thing yet Macarthur thinks his 500 year old Calvinist beliefs are true. 😂 Macarthur literally looking at the proof of faith and works yet refuses to believe. That's called pride.
This is what happens when one part of the Gospel is emphasized over another. Sincere Evengelicals believe that obedience to commandments is needed to be saved by coming unto Christ. That means that both faith and works is needed. Why do they try to tell others that it is only by faith.?
Then what is the bar you must achieve when it comes to works? Every other religion deals with works to get to nirvana, etc. Christianity is the only that says I’ll never be good enough to reach heaven through my works. Thank God that he came to me and I didn’t have to try to reach him
@@RM-og1ni I suppose it would be honest Faith that is supported by sincere actions. In fact, without the appropriate action (work) you really dont have any faith. Just turning toward Christ and the Father (definition of Repentence) causes you to turn away from negative things (sin if you want to call it that) . It also causes you to act and do more rightous things (works). Remember, there is no repentance without an increase in rightousness.
@@outsideview9052not trying to argue but trying to understand your viewpoint. I do agree that when you receive salvation and believe in Jesus, there are internal changes (the power of the Holy Spirit obviously) but should someone not act on that, I don’t think that disqualifies them from Heaven nor does it mean they don’t have faith. That’s ultimately not on us as humans to say who’s “doing enough” and they are probably or probably not going to heaven based off their works
@@RM-og1ni I certainly agree that neither of us are in a position to judge when someone is "doing enough" to make sure that they will go to heaven. Christ will judge us all in that regard. However, in many ways we can judge if a person is making a sincere effort to live the Christian life they are claiming to support. You cant live with someone unmarried and tell others that you know Christ loves you and wants you to be happy so in your case this kind of action is ok. As I said before, sometimes Paul or other authors of the scriptures, teach and emphasize a certain principle of the gospel so strongly that others begin to think that principle is all that matters. We certainly are saved my Gods grace and mercy through faith (we must have a Savior because we cant save ourselves); which faith is exercized by good works (rightousness). People can always argue about the differences they have between Christian denominations but since we both agree on what I just said, that should be enough for us to communicate together. As Christians we shouldnt feel threatened by other people beliefs or their interpretations of scripture. We can still disagree with them without accusing them of being lost. Best of life to you.
Justification and salvation aren’t the same. Works are just a manifestation of our faith in the grace that Christ died a death we deserved to save us from sin and as a Catholic, that is a universal Christian teaching
Sola Fide was made in response to a heresy in catholicism that you can be saved through works alone without any faith. Faith alone works so long as you acknowledge that while works don’t save are indeed evidence of salvation.
On what basis do you determine that they are distinct? Protestants (especially dispies) seem to assert there are a lot of distinctions in the Bible (the physical church vs spiritual church, the Great Throne vs Bema Seat judgement, the justification-sanctification distinction, etc). But they never seem to justify (pun intended) these views from Scripture. They simply presuppose them and then justify them by pointing out that they HAVE to be true to hold up [insert another view they presuppose].
McAurther intentionally said "grace and works“ but this is very deceptive of him. The orthodox, catholics, and other apostolic churches all believed you are saved by grace alone, but not through faith alone. The bible never says faith "alone". But it is through faith synergy with works. This is not works of the law which Paul talks about. Read the book of James.
Hi dear Emanuelsadu, salvation is free gift of God. It is grace of God and you can receive salvation by faith alone. You don't have to do good works for receive salvation. Of course, we need to do good works and get Baptism but that is not the condition of salvation. Jesus was crucified for you and resurrected from the dead. So Jesus saved you. So achieve that free gift of God with your faith alone. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness-for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. (Roman 4:24-25) Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household. (Acts 16:31) If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. (Roman 10:9-10) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them. One in Christ. (Ephesian 2:8-9)
MacArthur is a Calvinist (if I’m not mistaken) and therefore these claims he is making don’t really have much weight to them. I’ve grown up in the evangelical Protestant church and the general theology of that church has been what I’ve known for a long time, but recently I’ve been studying orthodoxy. This is because my church and other churches im familiar with have decided to “go back to the basics, the beginning” which would be what is found in Scripture and what was the belief of the Apostles. The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches both claim to have this faith and therefore it is worth studying them to see if this is true. One of the main issues that I’ve run into is the Protestant doctrine of solas, which comes from the reformation and not from the early church fathers. The Orthodox Church follows the early church fathers who followed Scripture and tradition (these were the men who are responsible for canonizing scripture and therefore it would be silly not to pay attention to what they believed). The most simple answer to this whole debate from the orthodox perspective is that it is both/and. What this means is summed up in “faith without works is dead”. Calvinism rejects this entirely especially in their doctrine of predestination where it is not possible for man to make a choice. But then where is faith? Faith is not knowing, it is living out belief. The works display faith but are also the very means by which we have faith. That is what the doctrine is really saying and not that doing a bunch of good deeds will get you into heaven. Of course I have much to learn and MacArthur has read a whole lot more than I have which would mean it is likely his own pride that blinds him. To me it is insane to follow Calvin if he killed people for being “heretics”, that is an evil thing.
I come from a very similar background and am also starting back at the fundamentals.. I think this comment is very well thought out and written I very much agree…
I'm not catholic or orthodox but I will defend them on this. They don't (or shouldn't) make works an idol but they believe per James 2: 14 and 15: " If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?" It's more accurate to say that Faith without faith working through love is dead.
We do believe in faith alone. When you have faith, the works come naturally. That is what we mean. If you truly have faith, the works are a way you show your faith. "Faith in Action" = Faith by acting Just like when you sit in a chair. You have faith it is going to support you and not collapse. If you did not have faith in that chair, you would not sit in it. Sitting in it is proof that you have faith in that chair. -an Orthodox Christian
I can explain why, if you truly have faith in god the works will follow, if you have faith but your actions do not reflect it then you do not truly have faith. It isn’t about the amount of good work or volunteer hours done but about the will to enact what god and Jesus tells us to do
Because he is a joke, don’t let him talk about Jesus, first he claims Jesus blood, was not gods blood- no power in the name of Jesus- claims Jesus became sin for our fault. Almost like he doesn’t understand the trinity, yet he claims Bible only; son after or before you buy his Bible study. Yet the weak Christian’s will take it, why ? All we need is faith alone, we can sit down and eat potatoes all day, before the going gets tough Jesus will rapture us. People don’t understand the rapture theology is just like the prosperity gospel with a different twist.
EASY ANSWER - Ask Siri "Who founded 'insert Protestant Non-Denominational Christian' Church?" Please try a few other Protestant Christian churches for the exercise. ANSWER: ?? Then lastly ask, "Hey Siri"... "Who founded the Catholic Church?", and then the Eastern Orthodox Church. ANSWER: ?? So... who then has the wrong teaching? And who then should you follow? God Bless ✝️ ❤
@@bohemondtaranto my brother in Jesus... when it comes to the 'CHURCH' and it's ' True Teachings', that JESUS passed onto his Apostles, this preacher that is ATTACKING Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, is WRONG!!! I highly recommend watching ex-Protestant Pastors & Theolgians like Scott Hahn, Stevie Ray, Sam Shamoun (many many others) on coming to the True teachings of Jesus' True Church after learning Jewish Christian History. The Bible is the most beautiful book ever compiled, but it can be interpreted in many incorrect ways. Why do so many different Protestant churches exist? Because they disagree on the Bible teaching - How many Truths can there be? God Bless 🙏
@@KimGomezDesigns WE are His apostles. Because we are the ones that will bring nations to be disciples. There are so many changes on 'church' since the first century. In the first century churches were never at a specific building, but in homes, by regular people, with regular clothes.
@@bohemondtaranto Amen! But what was the TEACHING in the First Century is the most IMPORTANT point??....... Was it Faith AND Works..... OR Faith Alone?
@@KimGomezDesigns saying faith AND works will make it like they are 2 SEPARATE things. People can choose works first THEN faith. How do you know what are the works if you dont know the WILL of The Father (to be worked for) through faith? works always come after faith. because works are the fruits of faith. If there is no works after faith, that means the faith is fake/ not deep/no knowledge/no close relationship the The Words we need to focus on faith, every day, not on works if we focused on works, you will lose faith if you focus on faith, the works will follow if you focus on works, it will be for your own glory if you focus on faith, the works that follow will be for God's glory. 'Faith alone' never meant to be without works. It means we need to focus on faith, our relationship with God, daily, through His Words, through fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ. The Apostles in the first century traveled from town to town, from house to house, to visit the congregation. If your priests and your brothers and sisters in Christ do that regularly, then you are in the right path. If you have to come to your priests in a certain building once a week, then it is not what the apostles did. If priests only stay in their 'building' never do 'the works' like the apostles did, daily and regularly, then they are the literal 'faith alone' practitioners.
Thank God our salvation doesn't proceed from having arrived at perfect theology. Faith is accessed by little children. That said, there is a radical hole where humility should be in the Catholic faith and moreso in Orthodoxy. But pride is certainly a problem among Protestants as well. In every case, Jesus' words need to be reviewed and heeded - Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent,” John 6;29. This is all necessarily what's in view in the statement "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
For someone with such a firm stance on Sola Scriptura, it seems comically ironic that MacArthur didn’t recognize the direct reference to 1 Cor 13:2 used by our Orthodox brethren
Someone might've already said this in the comments, but here are my 2 cents: Everytime I see people discussing this topic of faith and works, almost all of them, John McArthur included (if this was all he said, I haven't watched the full sermon) fail to actually define what works are meant. To my understanding, there are 3 types of works; 1. Works as a result of faith in the Lord. These are the works explicitly meant by James in his epistle. Let's call this type Faith-Works. 2. Works as a results of obedience and adherence to the Law. These are the works explicitly mean by Paul. Let's call this type Law-Works. 3. Works as a result of simply doing good deeds, without any faith in a particular deity necessary - the type of good works that, for example, atheists also practice despite the absence of a particular reason and despite the lack of faith in anything which would cause these good works. Let's call this type simply Works. So, now that we HAVE ACTUALLY DEFINED what works we are working with (hehe, get it?), we can actually proceed to make statements in accordance to our definitions. Most pastors I've seen tackle this topic COMPLETELY forgo this and what ends up happening is they are confusing their audience, as we can see in this comment section. Instead of clarifying the topic, they bring even more confusion than what was initially there. Now, let's get to work. Faith in the Lord needs to bear fruit. If you don't have fruits as a result of your faith, you are a dead tree, like the famous fig tree. This is what Faith-Works means. Your faith has to inevitably bring to existence Faith-Works in your life. Otherwise, your faith is dead and/or false/meaningless. You are justified by faith alone, but if that faith doesn't bear any fruits, it's not going to justify you. It is not the Faith-Works that save you, but they are a natural result of you faith. If you have only Law-Works, which aren't driven by faith, but rather by fear, then you are not justfied - This is what Paul meant, as he was always comparing Faith to Law-Works and NOT to Faith-Works - hence why DEFINING this is crucial. No amount of Law-Works will bring salvation, hence why Grace was needed in the first place. Lastly, I think we can all agree that Works alone (as in 3.) won't lead anywhere, so there's no need to discuss those. Now, what type of Works do the Orthodox and Catholic mean in their dogmas? I'm inclined to believe both of them have the 1st type of Works (Faith-Works) in mind and as such, none of them are preaching any falsehood. They've simply also remained a bit vague in their definitions I suppose, but John didn't do any better here. I don't know what agenda John has against the churches, but failing to discern these very important details leads me to believe there is something he has in mind, as I highly doubt he has never bothered to differentiate the type of works that Paul and James meant. Otherwise, I think we run into a problem that would imply that Christ is not only not taking care of his church, but has lead 90+% of it astray. I don't think any of us want to go there, including John himself even though that's exactly what he insinuates here, hence I'm much more inclind to think he has a particular agenda in mind with these statements and the forgoing of definitions. As we can clearly see Paul and James mean different things when they mention works just by reading the epistles. If that was not the case, Paul and James would be of contraty opinions and thus would be confusing thier audience as opposed to educating and enlightening it. Also to mention, I'm not part of either of those denominations, so I have no inclination to defend them, I simply want to bring clarity to the topic, you make your own conclusions after that. Lastly, to those mentioning the thief on the cross - Please, don't bring a single occurance that is much more the exception than the norm and much more the proof of the Lords Grace and Mercy than anything else, as your argument. If you do, then you get into a lot of trouble, as the thief was also not baptized - Does this mean we don't need to baptize anyone and disobey Christs direct instruction to do so? Does this mean noone has to receive the Holy Spirit? Does this mean you can live you whole life in sin and then repent in the last moment? It's a whole can of worms that you open with that argument. Also, if you do choose to do so, then the thief did present multiple Faith-Works in a very short amount of time: 1. He recognized his tresspasses and his own guilt and confessed himself guilty. 2. He recognized Chirsts' innocence and declared it openly, whilst rebuking the 2nd thief. 3. He declared Christ as Lord and asked to be remembered, which is clearly a sign of conviction and repentence. All 3 of these acts are works of faith. So did he have Faith-works? Yes, undoubtably so and probably to the maximum extent that he could have given his situation. Let me know what you think, this is what I firmly believe.
So hilarious how Evangelical Protestants claim to follow the Bible but then blatantly contradict the Bible which declares that we are saved by both faith and works and not by faith alone!
John MacArthur is just plain wrong. He has become pompous. He is going to take on the entire Eastern Church based on his experience and training? Really? The book of James points out that faith without works is dead. Faith alone is NOT taught in the Bible. It was not taught by the Early Church. It was not taught in the Patristic Era. MacArthir has attacked the Eastern Church before. Let’s think about this for a moment. In 1517 we have Martin Luther, a Catholic, adds word to the Bible. He added the German word “allein” into his heavily opinionated German translation. Each book has a page of Martin Luther’s opinions on that book. His bias shows through. Which came first, the Church or the New Testament? The Church was up and running for four decades or more BEFORE the first Gospel was penned. The Early church did not use the Hebrew Bible (proto-Masoretic) but used the “Book of the Seventy” known to us today as the Septuagint and it included the Deuterocanonical books too! Also, Church tradition maintains, and the Eastern Orthodox support the notion that Hebrews WAS, in fact, written by Paul. Modem day textual criticism throws out the testimony of the established Church when these modernists say that we do not know who wrote Hebrews. Malarkey! The Early Church Fathers, the Early Church and the Patristic era all believed the entire Bible was Holy-all the books contained therein. The Eastern Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Church hold these to be Holy, as does the Orthodox Coptic Church of Alexandria, Egypt-the one founded by Mark, the writer of the Gospel that bares his name. The ancient Hebrew Bible was translated into Koine Greek by Hebrew translators brought to Egypt at the behest of Ptolemy Philadelphus II in 247 BC.
Do not be concerned about other's beliefs." What has righteousness to do with unrighteousness ?" Paul asked. All were given free will to choose the path they travel by our Creator.
@@matthewrudolph3514 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”-and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. James 2:14-26
@@matthewrudolph3514 salvation by faith alone will not save you fellow Protestant and I speak from being a Protestant I have read the Bible. It litterly says salvation by faith or by works alone is DEAD you must have both to be saved And every man must believe and work This quote is the truth. “Nothing is for free in this world why should your salvation be free” but it won’t cost worldly possessions. It will just cost true faith and true works
Yes, *justified* through faith and works. John needs to know the difference between how the Orthodox and Catholics define justified and saved. Salvation is by God's Grace alone. Justification, aka to be made righteous, is through faith and works. Biblically, they believe there is a massive difference.
Yes, but firstly Paul spoke here of the covenant sign of the Israelites in the old covenant the circumcision and secondly in this passage it's nowhere written alone by faith we receive the salvation only his faith is counted as righteousness. You should also read the verses 6 - 12 in the 4th chapter of Romans, especially verses 9 - 12. Then it's clear that Paul meant the circumcision with "work" in this verse. It's always the same with you Protestants. You take one single verse out of the context and misinterpret it because of this.
@@dismas6992 you say all Protestant are the same, which is just laughably wrong. And I’ve read those verses. Just because he talks about circumcising, doesn’t mean that’s all he meant by works, there is no evidence for that. He used circumcision as an example because it’s a big one. But what about Romans 3:28 “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law” the reason he keeps mentioning circumcising is because that’s what many Jews were saying was required for salvation. But works of the law applies to works of the law. However, I think I need to revise something that gets lost during debates like this. Many Catholics and Orthodox believe that when Protestant say salvation by faith, we mean salvation by belief, and this isn’t true. At least for most Protestants it isn’t. Faith must be active to save. That why works is emphasized in James 2. The only real difference in our theology is that, Catholics hold works in equal value to faith. Considering works to be necessary for salvation. And we believe that faith is the only thing actually doing the saving. The reason that works, baptism, and participation on the sacraments “saves” is because of obedience to faith. Paul even says In 1 Corinthians that if you partake in holy communion without faith than the communion will become a curse to you, and not save you. So it’s not the works themselves that save, but the obedience to faith that saves. That’s still salvation by faith alone, just a more refined definition. Because if salvation wasn’t by faith alone, than the thief on the cross would not have been saved. And many Catholics will say “well Jesus Gave an exception!” But Romans 2:11 “For God shows no partiality”. The only way that the thief could obey his faith was through his declaration of faith. The same doesn’t apply to us who can do works and be baptized etc. But it’s does show how what is saving is not those works, but what the reason of that works is, faith.
@@nerdtalk1789 I really don't know what is so difficult to understand in James 2: 20 - 22 for example. It clearly says that NOT ONLY the faith of Abraham was doing the saving but ALSO the work together with the faith, in his case his readiness to sacrifice his only son if God had demanded it. Abrahams obedience COMPLETED the faith, without this the faith had been useless and incomplete it's clearly written. In the whole chapter 2 of the letters of James it's about the acts of charity, which contribute to the salvation. They are doing the salvation alongside with the faith, so it's not the faith alone doing the saving. And verse 24 and 26 summarize the whole chapter 2 with the sentences "You see that a person is justified BY WORKS AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE", verse 24 and "Far as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith APART FROM WORKS IS DEAD„, verse 26. It couldn't be expressed clearer. And in 1 Corinthians 11: 20 - 29 the topic isn't whether we are saved by faith alone or not. It's about the real presence of Christ with his true flesh and true blood in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharistic. That derives of verses 27 and 29 where Paul wrote who eats and drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning THE BODY AND BLOOD of the LORD and in verse 29 who drinks and eats without DISCERNING THE BODY eats and drinks judgement on himself. You can't be guilty of profaning Christ's FLESH AND BLOOD if it isn't present. Of course you have to receive the holy communion with faith but in the right faith the orthodox and catholic faith, THAT IT IS THE REAL PRESENCE OF CHRIST WITH HIS TRUE FLESH AND BLOOD OF CHRIST (see John 6: 48 - 58). Not like the Protestants who understand it only as a symbolic memorial ceremony of the Last Supper. And why Protestants always try to justify Luther's "fait alone" doctrine with the thief on the cross? As I already said you can't ignore all other bible passages which contradict clearly this teaching. He can give us also as good as an example it's never too late to repent from sin and convert to the faith in Christ. We don't know when he found to the faith in Christ, it also can be just before he died. Finally what has Romans 2: 11 to do with the topic of the discussion here? Did you read also the verses 9 and 10?: "9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who DOES EVIL, the JEW first and also the GREEK, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who DOES GOOD, the JEW first and also the GREEK." So obviously Paul refers with the word "partiality" to the fact that God doesn't distinguish if the nationality is Jew or Greek he rewards respectively punishes both in the same manner. Begin to read the scripture in the context of the general statements and in the scripture context.
@@nerdtalk1789It’s clear from the context the “works” intended here are those of the Mosaic Law to which one is bound by circumcision. This whole section of Scripture is devoted to explaining why one doesn’t have to be a Jew to be saved. It doesn’t have anything to do with opposing faith in Christ with the works of faith in Christ, or “good works” as these are simply two sides of the same reality.
@@lornadoone8887 I’ve read the context and i always here Catholics a Orthodox trying to say it only regards circumcision. And it’s completely and blatantly false. Circumcision is mentioned and highlighted because it was seen as necessary by the Jewish people, but from Romans 2 all the way to Romans 4 it’s talking about all works, not just circumcision.
"False Christianity and a false gospel"...coming from someone who believes that God arbitrarily sends people to Hell. I feel like this opinion can be disregarded. 2 quick points... Faith alone was found nowhere in the Bible until the word alone was added to Protestant Bibles by Martin Luther...and the pastor needs to open up the book of James.
James 2:14-24. There is no exact measure for "works", but that doesn't mean that works aren't necessary. You gotta practice what you actually preach dude. I'm pretty sure those 1.6 billion Catholic Christians didn't get it wrong.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8-10 The book of James talks about how the result of salvation produces good works, however this has nothing to do with earning your salvation, it is the work of the Holy Spirit in a saved person to the glory of God for what He has done, how great is our God, and greatly to be praised!
I was raised Catholic and never knew why Jesus died. Just knew they still had Him on the cross at the altar. He was risen and did not remain on the cross. Never knew a thing about the plan of Salvation and went to more than one Church. My family was Catholic. So as someone once said there are Catholics who are also true Christian's but he doesn't know how they got that way". Apparently on rare occasion this will occur but not through strict Catholic teaching. I didn't get saved until I was 26 and that was through a co-worker. Incidentally, John MacArthur is one of the best teachers I've had the pleasure of reading and listening to.❤.
Works do not produce salvation. Faith is the gift of God that brings about salvation. Works are a sign of that salvation, they do not add too nor merit salvation. The more I've spoken to catholics the more it's become obvious y'all are extremely scattered on the issue yourselves. You can talk to ten different catholics and get 10 different answers. Your alleged unity is a joke.
Thanks for helping me along my way to Orthodoxy. After decades in Protestantism I have grown so sick and tired of protestant play acting on faith and protestant barking, I've become Orthodox. You have no history You have no tradition You are missing out on the fullness of The Faith and The Church and in that you are missing out on The fullness of Christ.
Romans 5:18-20 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, colossians1:20 and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. 2 Corinthians 5 :19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation .acts13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Titus3:5 He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. Romans1:17 For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “ The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, Romans 4:6 And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Romans10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. psalm103:10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins or repaid us according to our iniquities. psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us. John3:15-17 everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.…
@@wolfwatchers 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”-and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. James 2:14-26
you know this is a youtube shorts, right? I know it's been 6 months since you commented but I couldn't scroll pass this one. It almost gave me a headache.
Well he has a point. But you probably don’t know any better because you lack biblical understanding. The gospel is the churches missions and truth. If you add to it or distort it then that should be called out. The Bible is clear that the doctrine of justification hinges on faith alone. James and Paul are dealing with different topics. Paul’s writings clearly teach faith alone and James writings describe the substance of that faith. We do good works because we are saved, not to get saved because Jesus has already done that good work. We are created in Christ Jesus for good works and that isn’t even if our own doing (Ephesians). Calling this man a heretic is laughable, he would mop the floor with your ideology and would do it with the scriptures alone. Just simply ask yourself what is the gospel and what is the reason for the hope that is in you? I would also add that debating from an orthodox position to a traditional reformed Christian position is going to hard pressed because categories will be different. If you want to understand better I’d recommend through western eyes, that’s a decent book from a reformed theologian.
They cannot they claim they are Bible only, but fail to acknowledge, that their pastors view is not Bible only. John MacArthur teaches them a run away gospel. all the true Christian’s will be taken into heaven before the tribulation. I wonder how the apostle Stephen fells When people want to run away instead of the glorious death he served. (Baptism under fire) Proof that faith alone will make them run, instead of holding true to God, since dying for your belief is work. They are the first woke movement. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it They claim that’s just work.
10 verses about salvation by faith alone: Ephesians 2,8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Romans 11,6 (NLT): 6 And since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is-free and undeserved. Acts 16,31 (ESV): 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Romans 3,28 (ESV): 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 4,5 (ESV): 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 5,1 (ESV): 5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Galatians 2,16 (ESV): 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 3,24 (ESV): 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Ephesians 1,13 (ESV): 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Philippians 3,9 (ESV): and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
The book of James, 2:18-20 states very clearly that faith without works is dead, that's the only time in the Bible where the words faith and work appear together and it's to make it very obvious that we Christians need both in order to be saved. May the Lord bless all those who read these words.
By divine grace we understand the saving and deifying energy of God, made available through Christ's work, and distributed by the Holy Spirit, the source of grace and sanctification. Divine grace, the work of the Holy Spirit, is a free gift, necessary for our salvation, non-coercive, which requires our cooperation (synergy). Our response to the grace of God is our works of love, which are the fruits of God's grace working in us. We are justified by God's grace. However, this justification is not real, unless it produces the "works of righteousness." - The Dogmatic Tradition of the Orthodox Church
Matthew 25 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
No, that's wrong. The good works don't come automatically as a result of the saving faith after accepting Jesus Christ as your savior, redeemer and Messiah. Read Matthew 7: 17 - 23; 25: 31 - 46. If it were like that, Jesus warnings wouldn't make any sense. Man still possesses after the conversion the free will to execute or not the good works God prepared for him. Ephesians 2: 8 - 10. The good works belong to the saving faith but God doesn't force us to execute them. So we are not saved by faith alone.
@@dismas6992 If you are not a new person in Christ after having being saved, then you were never saved to begin with. The evidence of having being saved is new behaviours. John the Baptist said "produce fruit in keeping with repentance". You are a NEW person in Christ when you are saved. If good works don't follow then you are not saved. You are not a new person in Christ and you do not love the Lord as you confessed. There are three conditions for being saved. You have to repent, believe and endure to the end. You can't be watching porn, claim to be saved and keep watching porn after that. Clearly you were not saved. When you are saved your love for Christ is so strong that stopping porn is easy. It is no longer your faith that creates a change in behaviours after you are "saved". It is your love for your saviour Jesus Christ.
@@dismas6992 Whilst the work of the Holy Spirit within us is invisible, the results of the Holy Spirit are not, they are VISIBLE, namely new behaviours.
@@JohnSmith-zo6ir No, that isn't true at all, pretending people who sin again after the conversion aren't saved to begin with is only an excuse to justifie Luther's heresy. You are right saying if the conversion of somebody was really true and honest you can't watch anymore porn videos for example due to the love for Christ You are also right in saying for being saved you have to repent, believe and ENDURE TO THE END. And exactly this is the key of the salvation to remain in this beginning love for Christ until the end of your life. The salvation is an ongoing process not a uique single act in life. The bible is full of warnings addressed to believers who were saved to to begin with but are in danger to fall back in the old behaviours or giving up the faith and losing the salvation. Moreover you just ignore the free will of human being like it did already Calvin. As I said already man is created in freedom by God, with a free will. You can be in the saving grace on the beginning of the conversion but God doesn't force us to keep the faith, to remain in the beginnig love for Christ or to act according to his will in future even if you are a NEW PERSON in the beginning of the salvation. We still possess the free will God doesn't take away from us by the conversion. You still don't have explained me how you want to reconcile bible passages like MATTHEW 7: 13 - 23; 25: 31 - 46 or JAMES 1: 1 - 22; 2: 14 - 26 for example with the "Faith Alone" doctrine. It's like the orthodox and catholic church say, man is saved by FAITH + GOOD WORKS. This was the teaching of Christ, the apostles and their successors and the early church from beginning on. Luther had to invent his doctrine because it has never been taught before him by anyone so it proves it's a wrong teaching.
@@dismas6992 Im not interested in all the "isms". I only go by what the scripture says. To be saved requires repentance, belief and enduring to the end. Being saved is both an event and a process. The event is when you GENUINELY repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and hopefully you do that in private with the Lord and not some hyped up "call-up" in an evangelical church based on a feeling. That is a ritual, not a genuine repentance. The process part is sanctification, which only takes place after the event, and that is also the enduring part to the end. There will be trials and tribulations. Philippians 2:12-13 ESV To "work out your own salvation" means you have to believe, repent (which starts the process of sanctification) and endure to the end. Hebrews 6:1 "Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God" The key words are "dead works" or "dead behaviours". When you repent and become a new person in Christ your old behaviours should die and be replaced with new behaviours consistent with the Word of God. James 2:26 "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead" The context for "faith without works is dead" is seen in James 2:14. "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead". Works, action and behaviours are the evidence of faith and belief in action. No man comes to God by works, but all men who truly come to God will give evidence of the faith that they have, by the things that they do. In 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Paul teaches that being “in Christ” results in a person becoming a “new creation”. Ephesians 4: 17-24 Versus 17-24 are a comparison before salvation and after salvation"put off your old self" are your old behaviours and "put on your new self" are your new behaviours. Examples of the old behaviours are given in versus 17-20, namely; the way you think, the hardening of their hearts causing ignorance, sensuality leading to impurity and being full of greed. The new behaviours are as a result of the holy spirit changing your values where righteousness and holiness are valued leading to a change in your mind-set and attitude. It's impossible (futile) to live in your old ways once you have been saved as verse 17 says; "In the futility of their thinking". Once the Holy Spirit comes upon you, it's impossible (futile) to live in the old ways. You will be renewed in your thinking which will manifest in new behaviours. And, it's not you bringing about those new behaviours, it is the Holy Spirit. That's why if you have no manifestation of new behaviours you are likely not saved. The Holy Spirit is not residing within you. It's a hard message for "Christians" and like you, you don't want to face the possibility of the truth that maybe you were never saved to begin with. Here are more scriptures validating that reality. Paul uses three infinitives to illustrate the transformation in Ephesians 4 verse 22 "put off" or "lay aside" your old self, verse 23 "be renewed" or "make new" in the attitude/spirit of your mind and verse 24 "put on" the new self. This transformation is the work of God, not your work. It is the Holy Spirit who has transformed you. You heard the gospel, you learned the gospel and you believed the gospel. The old self has been removed and completely replaced. It's not a new self, tagged on to the old self. The old self is completely removed. Verse 24 says the new self is "created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness". So, a saved person is like God. 1 John 1:6 "If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth". "Walking in the darkness" after having been saved, demonstrates that you were never saved to begin with. If you were saved you would be walking in the light as a new person in Christ. 1 John 3:6, ESV. "No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him". You cannot abide in Chist if there are no change in behaviours for the good. If there are no change in behaviours then "you have neither seen him or know him". There never was a relationship and therefore you were never saved to begin with. 1 John 3:10, ESV. "By this it is EVIDENT who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not PRACTICE RIGHTEOUSNESS is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother". 1 John 3:18, ESV. "Little children, let us not love in word or talk, but in deed and in truth". So love is an action/deed and truth, not virtue signalling like the hypocritical Pharisees with words and talk". So, you can't be saved by works, but once you are saved, you are a new person in Christ and you will manifest new behaviours. If there is no behavioural change then you were never saved to begin with. 1 John 5:18, ESV. "We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning (because they change their behaviours), but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him". In Revelation the scriptures not only confirm that there MUST be a change in behaviours once you are saved, but also includes the CONSEQUENCES if you don't. It covers the condition of REPENTANCE in verse 21 and then in versus 22 and 23 are the consequences for not repenting. At the end of verse 23 are the consequences if there are no changes in behaviour, namely, "I will give to each of you according to your WORKS (behaviours)". That is why Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23: "I never knew you, depart from me you who practice lawlessness". "Lawlessness" is a behaviour/fruit. And "practiced" means it is something you were doing. It's bad fruit. You were doing bad behaviours. So, when Jesus says "I never knew you", it's not because you are no longer saved. It's because you were never saved to begin with. There was no relationship to break off. By way of example, in the days of our Lord there were six thousand Pharisees and yet throughout the four gospels, only one Pharisee came to salvation. His name was Nicodemus (John 3:1-21). The Pharisees were the equivalent of our modern day pastors and Jesus said to them "I never knew you, depart from me you who practice lawlessness". The Pharisees, like many of today's pastors, were false prophets filled with greed, arrogance, pride and a false religion. 1 John 2:19 reiterates this; "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us". There was never a relationship with Jesus to begin with. And, it continues in 1 John 3:1, ESV. "See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him". There was never a relationship with Jesus to begin with. So yes, when you are saved in the context of the event, there is an IMMEDIATE change in behaviours. You cannot stop that immediate change from happening, because it is not you making the change (that would be your will), it is the Holy Spirit making that immediate change. By the way you talk, this did not happen to you. The process of sanctification after the event, is about endurance to the end and how you handle you handle trials and tribulations with your new found self. And, sanctification during that process, is found only in the scripture. Don't get all hung up in the "isms". Build your relationship with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and sanctify yourself through scripture.
but the funny thing is... despite his and millions of other evangelicals like him who believe salvation is by faith alone... they also do lots of good works. Individually and as a church they as do much or more than Catholic and Orthodox churches to help the needy, drug addicted, single moms, homeless, missions outreaches, etc... They also emphasize growing in faith and knowledge in Christ through Bible studies, prayers, meditations, being sanctified and made holy in Christ's image etc. So my question is... do they also have to believe their works justifies them to be saved? Or are they already doing the good works needed per Roman Catholics and Orthodox even though they don't believe its necessary for salvation?
Its actually because they are saved by faith not by false faith but true saving faith which is alive not dead and it alive that it results in good works in them before the world that others may see and glorify the father.... See it says in James 2 'show me' your faith by ur works in other words it's not about proving to God it's to men that works speak they serve as a testimony that ur faith is real and genuine which only God can know
There are plenty of passages that teach the significance of doing good works. "14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." James 2:14-17
i can just envision catholics and orthodox having little baby fights over minor things like the papacy and filioque, then finding this and standing as brothers.
10 verses about salvation by faith alone: Ephesians 2,8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Romans 11,6 (ESV): But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. Acts 16,31 - And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Romans 3,28 - For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Romans 4,5 - And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, Romans 5,1 - Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Galatians 2,16 - yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 3,24 - So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. Ephesians 1,13 - In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Philippians 3,9 - and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
Works is the evidence of faith, if you say you believe something but don’t act on it, you don’t really believe it.
Faith alone is a lazy form of Christianity.
@@mitchjames9350 I was thinking that tbh 😅
@@mitchjames9350esp 2:8-10”for by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of yourselves. It is the Gift of God
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them”
So salvation its self is by faith alone but James 2 “faith is dead without works” but faith comes before works. OSAS is true John 10:27-28”my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they will follow me. And I give unto them enternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” you can’t lose your salvation because if your really saved then you will not run away and you will have works. Saying faith is lazy is one blasphemous to God himself because it’s the only way one is saved and once saved you will have good works from the power of God bit of yourself because your incapable of doing it on your own. I love you brother but your foolish remarks that one’s faith being lazy isn’t true. Though if one says he is saved and has no works let that fool be accursed for he does not know the lord.
Sanctification comes after faith justifies the Christian
@@mitchjames9350sanctification is the work. Faith alone is what is required for salvation through. Are you calling God lazy? Maybe you should tell Him to re-write the Bible
"Every Christian was wrong for 1500 years until Luther and Calvin came around." -John MacArthur
@@johnsixfourteefour629 did I say works were enough?
MacArthur never said that. There were Christians in the early church that believed in Faith alone.
@@johnsixfourteefour629😂
@@matthewrudolph3514 Who were these Christians name them
@@yalechuk6714 lol St Paul in the letter to the Galatians, Augustine 5th century Psalm 31:7, John Chrysostom who said” to have brought humanity, more senseless than stones, to the dignity of angels simply through bare words, and faith alone, without any hard work is indeed a rich and glorious mystery. It is as if you were to take a dog, consumed with hunger and disease, foul and loathsome to see, unable to move lying passed out, and make him all at once into a human being and to display him upon the royal throne”, Clement of Rome. The Publican in Luke 18 he went away justified without performing any works of penance or any sacraments or rituals. His justification was complete. There many more and I believe You’ve been lied to. You will stand before God one day boasting about your works and your supposed goodness He will say depart from me I never knew you. Get right with Him while we still have time.
James 2:24 "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone"
Genuine Faith will produce good deeds but only Faith in Christ saves.
See Galatians where it's clear that a person is justified by faith alone. Good works are a reflection of true faith. What James is saying there relates to this because, justification is to throw faith alone. The whole thesis of Galatians is that faith alone justifies and that faith plus works is a false gospel.
It's talking about justification before people. Verse 18 makes that very clear. And even Romans 4:2 saids we are not justified by works before God
Stop taking jamws out of context. James is saying you are justified in the eyes of man through your works. The works are evidence to others eyes. Works don't get you into heaven. Thr Bible says your good works are filthy rags before the lord. Jesus said there is none good but God
Take James out of context? That what James said LMAO @@bradley6386
“Faith that works through love” - Just like the Bible teaches…
The Protestant position is “faith ALONE (don’t read James 2 pls)” and anything else is a false gospel which is no gospel at all that is works salvation, but then they say that works are still necessary in faith alone but they’re only fruit of a changed inner life, even though not having these works will still send you to hell, but it’s not because the works do anything other than prove your love, because apparently love requires works, but since we’re not allowed to admit love requires works we just say that it’s an evidence of genuine repentance and the repentance itself comes from love, that way the obedience can be disconnected from the faith through repentance which is a work and an evidence so our whole system doesn’t come crashing down.
When I started to really realize just how much mental gymnastics are going on with this “works are absolutely not required and to say they are is the worst heresy and pure Antichrist, BUT you can’t just live however you want and claim to be a Christian, therefore good works are an evidence that you require to be saved even though they play no part in the saving but only as evidence, which even includes repentance itself which is literally a requirement of salvation, and if you ask the Calvinists even faith itself is a work, so you see there is no good work that contributes to your salvation, not even repentance and faith, because predestination. Would you like Lutheran Single-style Predestination, or Calvinist Original Double Predestination? We also have a new flavor, Calvinist Single Predestination with Compatibilism.”
Besides, I would point out that, while faith that works through love is a totally accurate expression, we’re not saved BY that but THROUGH that. We’re saved BY grace. Through faith that works through love. That’s what I’ve started saying now instead of “We’re saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the Scriptures alone, for the glory of God alone.” If someone asks how the Bible says we’re saved, it says we’re saved by grace through faith that works in love. And that’s three parts, not four. 1) God’s grace saves us 2) it saves us through faith 3) the kind of faith grace saves through performs loving actions (pure, agapē love). Which is all “works” means anyway, in the broadest sense and not when Paul is talking about works of the law specifically or something, just means any action you take. So again, Protestants literally don’t even believe that someone with no works is saved, they just explain it so that the works don’t save you, just checking that you have the works there is part of the requirement, but you don’t get any credit for doing anything, just an everlasting reward.
@@littlefishbigmountain not just james. And if you truly follow and accept all scripture then you can't tell us to not quote james which dogmAtically says we are not justified by faith alone. And paul says we need a faith that worketh by charity. And Galations says we need," Faith expressing itself in love". Follow the bible
@@robertkolinsky1286
Exactly! Although their position isn’t actually not to read James 2, that was a bit of sardonic humor. The way they read it still squares with faith alone, funny enough, even though it literally says “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”
Don’t ask me how they interpret how Abraham’s works perfected his faith, or how he was JUSTIFIED by works (especially this because that’s such a big yet specific term for Protestants, see Penal Substitutionary Atonement Theory for its legal usage), that this work in question is said to have fulfilled the Scripture that was already written about Abraham that declared him to have imputed righteousness (!!!), and literally that by works a man is justified, just like Rahab was justified by works too when she saved the Israelite spies, and that faith alone is a corpse without a soul in it, and that it actually cannot save anyone (that one’s from the hypothetical question in 2:14, to which the answer is obviously no.) because I don’t remember anymore how I used to read this passage literally saying the opposite of what it says just because I was trying to harmonize it with my preconceived notions of the Pauline epistles instead of asking if I got my theology right in the first place, not to mention where and who and when it came from
@@littlefishbigmountain oh I see are you a former protestant? Welcome hom!
@@robertkolinsky1286
Yeah, raised “non-denominational”, which is ironically basically just Baptist but with different individuals in the congregation being different levels of “Pentecostal”. Our congregation though is thankfully not as disorderly as some such churches are, at least unless you go to youth events where sometimes people are encouraged to all just speak out in tongues at the same time with no interpretation (there almost never is) which is explicitly condemned in the churches in 1 Corinthians 14, not to mention “spontaneous” laughter which always creeped me out. ANYWAYS it could’ve been a loooot worse based on the other non-denominational/charismatic/“Pentecostal” churches I’ve been to over the years.
Overall, at least the church I was raised in upheld basic morality (through the form of the 10 Commandments), that faith without works is dead, and matter of practical spirituality (for which reason James is actually a favorite in the church, as opposed to some Protestants who avoid it for some of the above reasons). It definitely could’ve been a lot worse.
But, yeah, because of Sola Scriptura, I just kept digging and digging and questions gave me more questions, until I was questioning assumptions I never thought I’d question in a million years like, “Does the New Testament really teach that the Law of Moses contradicts the New Covenant?” or “Is it true the hell is eternal conscience torment?” or “Is the Trinity really biblical?”, and that’s after all the Reformation stuff itself that shocked me and really started to shake me up the more I looked into it like Calvinism, or the connections between the church I was raised in and the theology of Ulrich Zwingli and his students that even went beyond what he was willing to accept and even their influence on the Radical Reformation and the Anabaptists, etc.
Basically Sola Scriptura led me to a point where I could not maintain any presuppositions of the Bible at all and essentially had to approach it actively forgetting almost everything I thought I knew. At some points, really all I had to hold on to was I knew God was real and raised Jesus from the dead to save sinners, which is thankfully enough hope to hang on to even in that crazy Descartes-ish expedition.
I just kept praying for the Spirit of Truth to lead me into all truth and for God to help me rightly understand His word, not according to any private interpretation, in Jesus’ name. Although I’ve been led all around clinging to that prayer, Orthodoxy is the first thing that’s really making me crave to experience it, sometimes like a hunger sometimes like an itch, and when I’m in my home church now I just can’t get fully immersed in the worship like before. Even though I work the services actually atm, but I’m working on changing my line of work so I can go to a different church. There are a few Orthodox churches in town, and there’s a Greek Orthodox one my wife is apparently familiar with near the old college I went to downtown that she’s willing to go check out with me (but I need new work first!). I’m still praying about it, but long story short I’d still call myself an inquirer. For the moment I’m doing my research and looking for answers to any objections I might have from how I was raised or questions that may come up, I mean Eastern Orthodoxy is a huuuuuge paradigm shift from the Western paradigm in general, even more so Protestant, and more so one with memorial view of the Eucharist and a public declaration view of baptism and Pentecostalism.
Despite all these “apostolic” preachers I started hearing in the last 10 or so years getting really popular (which thankfully I had been skeptical of) were so foreign to what any historical evidence of truly apostolic Christianity is.
I still don’t know how I feel about this one, holy, catholic, apostolic church idea as it’s often presented though to be completely honest because as an Orthodox I’m not sure how to view other professing Christians. A lot of Orthodox say they long for union with Rome, as do they say in return, but they both seem to really be saying that the other must admit it was heretical for half of church history and the other was always the true church, which neither is willing to admit, and then the Oriental Orthodox (miaphysites) some say are saying the same thing as the Caledonian definition in different terms and that they’re following Cyril of Alexandria’s formulation before it got confused by the Tome of Leo since the one nature formulation predated the two nature formulation (even studying the history of the councils leaves me confused on the point tbh, as I can’t seem to understand the continuity), and then the Church of the East get dismissed as Nestorian but then I’ve even heard that after talks with the churches some have determined that the supposed teachings of Nestorius got exaggerated over time by his opponents and became straw men and that if you study the primary documents of Nestorius he’s not saying what some people claim he’s saying, etc., and then there’s every Protestant I’ve ever known, are they all going to hell? Or can I even call them Christian? I still don’t understand how all that stuff works.
Sorry for ranting! Haha. I think I had some thoughts I may have needed to get out. I know you were thanking me on coming home to the true church. Truth is, I’m not there yet! But I feel very, very close 😊 It really seems like I’m gettin’ to the end of the journey, but we shall see. In my life, as long as I’ve not stopped praying for God’s will, it will be done sooner or later.
If salvation is justified by faith alone, then why did Jesus tell the rich young man in Luke 18:18-30 to follow His commandments in order to have eternal life?
I always thought it was because he knew the young man wouldn’t do it. He was forcing the man to confront his lack of true devotion to God in all things, and thus his need for a Savior.
@@cbtam4333 I used yo think that too, until I became orthodox. God gives us the work we need to do to obtain salvation. Its a very personal question “What must I do?” Salvation does not come as a cookie cutter one size fits all package. Look at paul…
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;†
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Press Toward True Righteousness
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.†
This verse is describing salvation
James said faith without works is dead.
Faith without works is dead.
And what works did the thief on the cross perform?
@@terrifictomm Works is a action and he spoke the truth.
@@terrifictomm John the Baptist and Jesus where murdered for speaking the truth.
@@terrifictomm John the Baptist got his head chopped off for telling King Harod it was wrong to marry his brother's wife. Harod's wife overheard and wanted his head after that and got it on a platter.
@@terrifictomm If you try and justify your greed and selfishness with nonsense then I tell you, you have your reward.
BECAUSE you are redeemed by faith in Jesus, you go to work for Him.
Exactly - so faith alone is a nonsense.
Did the thief on the cross complete any works for his salvation? No! He acknowledged Christ as Lord & Savior- Faith…
@@KDawgKy Did Paul complete any works?
@@apo.7898 Apostle Paul by the guidance of the Holy Spirit wrote 13 Epistles, healed people, established churches, defended the Gospel, established the very foundation for the church, the list goes on and on…he worked every day for Christ.
@@KDawgKy Why did he do it if faith was enough? Why not follow the 'faith alone' and 'sin boldly' doctrine?
So basically noone was saved before the 1500? 💀💀
Yes, Calvin is the new savior duh. All the non-western European, brown people are in hell. Calvin sez so.
They were saved if their faith was genuine which then led them to do good works, which is the way it should be for every Christian. If they just focused on good works without having faith they were not saved, even our greatest works are like filthy rags to God.
@@tommysuriel good deeds come of a good intention, which God loves. There is no way to argue that alms of a sinner are worthless to men in need of help. Only God knows the inner convictions that motivate, and I daresay He’d be lenient with a faithless man that did actual good for his neighbor. One who lacked love though he had perfectly correct faith would come up short.
@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 The problem with what you're saying is, the Bible is clear in that God hates sin, and every human being sins, no matter how much good they do, they're sinners and also evil people do good things all the time, they're still evil. In the Old testament God had Israel sacrifice animals for the redemption of their sins, Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice so that whosoever believes in him will be saved and forgiven of their sins once and for all, this is what the Bible teaches, without faith in Jesus we're all wretched sinners to God and can't enter the Kingdom of heaven
@@tommysuriel those are some good points but Jesus’ work is narrowed down too much. He conquers death as God by taking on an undeserved punishment as man. If he were a mere man it would achieve nothing. He ‘becomes sin’ like the goat for Azazel, but also like the one for Yahweh, whose blood covers the altar and people renewing them in life.
It is sad the he thinks that love and faithfulness are to be cursed. I'm very concerned for him.
So you’re basically saying the oldest church’s in the world were wrong about the gospel all this while for nearly 2000 years and Christ failed to preserve his church and we had to wait for you to come and teach the world the right gospel ? Give me a break
It is truly insane! 🤯🤯
Christ didn't established any church
@@jeswinamosphilipThen you obviously have absolutely no clue what Pentecost means.
Explain ephesians 2:8-9 “For
by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 'not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Explain James 2:14-17 "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save hime? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food and one of you says to them 'Depart in peace, be warmed and filled.' but do not give them things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." Even the demons believe and tremble. 2:24 You see then that man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 1 Corinthians 13:2 "...and though I have all faith so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. Sola Fide is not biblical.@@jeffreyterrio5665
Ah yes, St James the Apostle who wrote that we can’t be saved by faith alone has to be wrong… because your 50 year old church says so.
We Orthodox and Catholics have the true dogma and you can’t deny it.
Facts Orthodox Sister.
Amen
10 verses about salvation by faith alone:
Ephesians 2,8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 11,6 (NLT): 6 And since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is-free and undeserved.
Acts 16,31 (ESV): 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3,28 (ESV): 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 4,5 (ESV): 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Romans 5,1 (ESV): 5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2,16 (ESV): 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 3,24 (ESV): 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Ephesians 1,13 (ESV): 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Philippians 3,9 (ESV): and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
Read your bibles and don't rely on traditions or men.
@@barryallen119 Thank you for your reply. However, these are completely obvious statements. Of course you need faith. But why did Christ come? Because he felt like it? It was it to save our souls. I think you should already know that…
but St James the brother of our lord said, we cannot be saved without works. So then why feed the poor, why clothe the needy, why visit people in prison and care for the sick if I can just say “I love Jesus” and I can be saved. What is the point of the commandments, if ignorant Protestant’s will use it for their self righteousness. Please think about this. And by the way, Christ is the church, he has administered the priesthood which has been running since the time of Pentecost. They gave us the bible. Please understand that our church goes back 2000 years ago.
@@Audleyweir11111 If we’re going to say that we are saved by works, we must qualify whose works. We are not saved by our own works, however meritorious they are in our own eyes. We are saved solely by the work of Christ on our behalf. His death and His resurrection are the works that save us. We receive our Savior by faith (John 1:12).
What about the thief on the cross? He never did any works or did go to church. Jesus saved him cause he had faith. Read Hebrews 11, which shows that all the heroes like Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham etc. were saved by faith alone.
Romans 3,27-28 (ESV): Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Who is this Protestant to be saying the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches are teaching False Christianity? He has a lot of nerve and he is wrong
100%
It’s in the name. “Protestant” means to protest. They are protesting against the church that Christ instituted on Earth.
11 verses about salvation by faith alone:
Ephesians 2,8-9 (ESV): For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 11,6: But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Romans 3,27-28 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 4,5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness
Romans 5,1 (ESV): Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2,16 (ESV): yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 3,24 (ESV): So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Romans 3,21-22 (ESV): But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it- 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.
Philippians 3,9 (ESV): and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
Acts 16,31 (ESV): And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Ephesians 1,13 (ESV): In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit
Hebrews 11,4 (ESV): By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.
@@barryallen119 none of those say alone. You’d have to write it in like your founding father Luther did. Stop eisegeting the text
@@DF-ei9kc The Bible never mentions the trinity yet we all believe it. Why are you so narrow-minded and disobedient? Obey the bible and not your church doctrine.
That’s what all Christians believed until about 1540 …we are saved through faith and works
@@brianbrowning5680
What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?
James 2:14 RSVCI
What would you say about Ephesians 2:10, Galatians 5:6, James 2:24, Matthew 12:37 & 25:31-46 and Revelation 19:8 among many other scriptures such as hebrews that says by faith Noah *built the Ark* etc.
I've read the New Testament, which has many letters from the first century church. Repeatedly it is said we are justified by grace/faith, not by works. So you are wrong, and the inerrent word of God shows so.
See the scripture Brian Browning posted please, and BELIEVE those scriptures.
@@PaulyTater Pauly, I agree that the entire Bible is the Word of God; and the entire Bible is true. Where is it you think we disagree?
yes, the entire gospel sheds light on the gospel. But the gospel message itself is what we share when we evangelise the lost: The death and burial, deity and resurrection of Jesus Christ - and what this means for God and us.
@@brianbrowning5680 do you believe in free will? Or do you subscribe to Calvanism?
@@brianbrowning5680Wow , but you are deluded
You have a gift of twisting scripture
How very sad. Denying the historical, 2000 year old Christian faith.
Not only historical, it's very clearly stated in the book of James, which they, very conveniently took out of the Holy Bible.
@@invictus9976 youre reading a James which says works are required for salvation? Its not in there. Faith and works go together, and that doesn't mean works earn any part of salvation. To have the arrogance to suggest you had ANYTHING to do with your own salvation is denying Christ of His true grace and power.
@@easytiger35, arrogance and worse is denying the Bible, changing what it says and accommodating it to suit our own beliefs, and that is exactly what many if not all cults and groups do. I'm not going to write the whole thing here, but you could very easily read James 2:14-26. 14 reads: What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but doesn't have works? 17 reads as follows: "faith without works is dead" James even gives an example about works by helping others. No wonder so many deniers of faith/works, have taken this book from the Bible. Please read it and let me know what you think. I don't want you to think that I am being rude or that my intention is to attack you, not at all. Peace be with you and all in the name of Jesus.
@@invictus9976 you just dont understand it. No one says works is wrong. Works happen as a believer, naturally. But to think you earn any part of salvation is wrong. Service is what we are called to do as Christians, but it is not what saves us. You have to be able to see how they both exist without one being the one that saves you.
The historical faith is revealed in the scriptures, not in your traditions
“Those who love me will keep my commandments” works
Those who love me... those who already love Him. Who are they? Those who are already saved and have received the gift of salvation by believing in Jesus Christ the Son of God. You have been kept from knowing you can know you are saved. It says it in the scriptures. Why weren't you taught it and why was it kept a secret?
You follow Luther, we follow Christ
Facts
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
You can play these little infantile rhetorical games but I'll stick to what the bible actually says
@@danielomitted1867 Bro Read Eph. 2:1-10 and break it down line by line. Don't stop at verse 9 lol. There's a home run in v10 that so many reformers love to ignore. Go and do good works, God expects it of you.
@@guts2186 I have many times. Your rebuttal there refutes nothing I said. I'm not anti-lordship so I have no idea why you're responding to me as if that's what I said. Faith is the sole requirement for salvation. Then having been saved we do good works because we're saved. Not to be saved, nor to add to our salvation nor the merit salvation. If you want to try to refute the doctrine of faith alone and the reformers why don't you try learning what it actually is first. Because you obviously haven't
@@danielomitted1867 Bro faith without works is dead. Read James 2:14-26. You need faith and works.
John is very wrong on this. Probably worried about all the converts leaving protestantism.
10 verses about salvation by faith alone:
Ephesians 2,8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 11,6 (NLT): 6 And since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is-free and undeserved.
Acts 16,31 (ESV): 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3,28 (ESV): 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 4,5 (ESV): 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Romans 5,1 (ESV): 5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2,16 (ESV): 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 3,24 (ESV): 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Ephesians 1,13 (ESV): 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Philippians 3,9 (ESV): and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
@starsnstripes6925 Did the thief on the cross any good works? No, he believed in Jesus and that was enough for eternal life.
@@barryallen119he had repentance it’s not about doing a certain amount of good works it’s about being truly repentant
@@batemanwave It is GOD who causes repentance not us. By his gift of grace, we put our faith in Him. Turning towards Him and away from sin is not two different things, it is one motion. Tha thief on tha cross realized He deserved death as all humans do, and sought Jesus forgiveness.
@@barryallen119word concept fallacy speed run
James 2:17 “faith without works is dead” Salvation is free to whomever but faith and works go hand and hand.
in the goats and sheep parable it is laid clearly that people who didnt know god but did good things in their life and help others can be saved , while some who had faith but did no good works are cast in the lake of fire
it is layed clearly in several places in the bible that deeds and actions are the criteria in the day of judgement and not wether you believed in Jesus or not
@@mariolis
This is wrong too. You have to read the overall statements of the Bible about man's salvation. The Bible clearly says both is needed the FAITH + GOOD WORKS. We inherit the eternal life in Christ neither ONLY through faith nor ONLY through good works.
That is what he is saying.
To say I am saved by faith is super nice for a reel or a short. For real life you need both. Faith without works is nothing
That is what he means.
I'm a convert to Orthodoxy from Reformed Presbyterian. I read the church fathers and I actually read the book of James.
:) Amin
Amin,to what Eastern Orthodox church are you going?
@@АјдеЗвездодајгол Greek, but sometimes I attend the Russian Liturgy as well.
@@albabialdayaqi5885 GOOD,God bless you man.
@@АјдеЗвездодајгол Same brother☦️
Martin Luther falsely added “alone” to Romans 3:28 so this is an extremely common misconception among Protestants
Yeah, and faith alone is heresy because faith without works is dead. All Protestants, especially Evangelicals for a perfect example, who believe in this are heretics.
As Bugs Bunny would say " He don't know his scriptures do he."
Im born and raised protestant....im joining orthodox so i can go to church and clwanse my soul for jesus and never ever worry about prosperity grifters or prise flags in my church
only Jesus can cleanse your soul, go back and read the bible, the orthodox church is a works based theology, this is not biblical in any sense. Islam is another works based religion.
@@hutchken1973 Glory to God☦️
@@claydiddy63able 🥴 Evangelical Christianity is more islam like than Orthodoxy. It’s a religion based on a book. I reiterate “based on a book”. A book is not Christ, you cannot have a relationship with a book. The One Holy Apostolic Orthodox Church canonized the scriptures for teaching doctrine and liturgical use. Its kinda sad all you have that is remotely apostolic tradition is scriptures and you only have theory to interpret it through at that. No thanks I rather not seek the living among the dead. Church is just a glorified book club with yall.
Bold statements coming from a Zionist, Dispensationalist, NESTORIAN, Calvinist and Evangelical "Christian"
I Believe you are missing the point - Once a believer, works are necessary but According to St. Paul, Ephesians 2: 8 -10 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
Literally James 2:14-26.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
💀💀💀
👏🏿👏🏿
Well, if we are being absolutely literal both of the examples given in James are people being justified by doing one thing. And technically Abraham didn’t actually commit any act. He simply believed God.
So, how literally are we to take James?
@@1920s it's quite simple. James is not contradicting Paul in anyway. He says that we are saved by faith but the works are an extension of faith because how else would you express your faith. That's it. The works themselves do not inherently save you. But they are a means to express your faith.
Matthew 7:21-23
And as for the works themselves, they're very simple.
John 14:15.
It's quite simple. If we are saved by faith without works then we simply would not have to repent. We could just sin boldly. But that is clearly not the case.
@@RajVeesa I’m not saying there is a contradiction. I’m saying the two examples given in the text show people that were justified by doing one thing, and the thing that Abraham did that justified him was belief. It doesn’t say Abraham was justified by repenting, giving to the poor, fasting or anything else. He was justified by believing God. Which, if not the same thing, is very close to “faith”.
Plus Eph. 2:1-10. There's a home run in v10 that so many reformers love to ignore.
I was about to comment, but it looks like you guys are way ahead of me. Praise be to God ☦️
Jesus came to establish a church, not a set of books
@@johnsixfourteefour629 Ya, ancient Israelites viewed the scripture in the same way as Calvin and Luther
@@johnsixfourteefour629you wouldn’t have the Bible without the church. The church preserved the scriptures, gives historical witness to them, and compiled the canon. Paul says the CHURCH is the pillar and ground of truth.
@@johnsixfourteefour629 this is a dumb argument. You believe in a book uphold by the church (ur essentially trusting the church on this issue) if u don't trust the church why did u pick up the bible instead of the Quran???
@@johnsixfourteefour629 Church tradition is what people relied on for hundreds of years, not that "set of books" that no one had access to. Even the authors of those books didn't call their writings Scripture...of course we do today, but just making a point that the importance of Church traditions are what Christians relied on before the Canon was assembled.
We haven’t had this much unity between Catholics and Orthobros since 1054 lmao 🤣
Amen 😂❤
Poor guy turned away from Christ and followed a flawed single person.
Lol, Christ taught that he's the only way to heaven, not your good works
@@zaynewhitmoreand then he also said we will have to give an account for what we did with the saving grace he gave us, check
@@GMART50 sure, but he won't count our sins against us. Since he paid for them all on the cross according to Titus 2:14. And even Romans 11:6 saids "if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace." Which means we don't have to do good works in his grace for salvation 😁
@@zaynewhitmore wrong again, Hebrews 10:26,27 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
@@GMART50 yeah you have to read it in context. The Jews were tempted to back to Judaism and reject Christ, so the sin he's talking about is the sin of rejection. And we also know that 1 john 2:1 saids "my little children I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin, but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the father. Jesus Christ the righteous." Context is key
Orthodox church founded by Jesus Chris not by man like yours
Wrong
@@Johnn876How?
@@Johnn876cope
How was founded by Jesus?
@@fr.Angel21 The day of Pentecost, the first bishops (apostles) received the gifts of the Holy Spirit and were thus ordained.
Faith alone is false.
Even Satan has faith
Is it faith or knowledge?
he has belief.. faith does not equal belief
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
John 8:44
Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41)
Satan does not have a honest and saving faith. He worships only himself and cannot repent.
😮
He has knowledge, not faith.
Poor guy John is deceived into thinking that true faith doesn't show in a person's works
I'm not sure that's what he was saying. I don't know all MacArthur personally believes but I have attended like evangelical churches and there is huge emphasis on the fruits of your faith being displayed through good works. So unless I a missing something I believe the only real distinction being made here is about the requirements for salvation... is it faith alone or faith + works? I'm still praying through this as I'm not sure what I believe. I've always struggled with the sinner's prayer theology that states simply accepting Jesus into your heart saves you. Know lots of people who did that in high school or college and the rest of their lives were lived far from that faith.
He actually teaches Lordship salvation and is often called a works heretic because he teaches that true Christians will have works. He is not an anti-nomian.
@@shanebassett8024 Faith without works is dead. Once saved you should have a desire through the Spirit to do good works! IE show me your faith by your good works, but you were saved before you could do anything that pleases God.
@@moserious697 Amen. The original poster didn't seem aware of John Macarthur's position.
That’s very convenient considering the kind of “works” JM exhibited in dealing with the case of a wife and young children in his congregation being violently abused by her husband where he publicly shamed and disfellowshipped the victim (who was forced to pursue legal protection from her husband) and supported and enabled the abuser as the example of “godliness” (who ended up tried and convicted for abuse of his children and got 21 years to life in CA prison. He was just denied parole at 21 years and will do another 10 since the parole board found he remained a violent sadist who “weaponized religion” vs. his victims). JM is apparently unrepentant to this day and has never apologized nor sought forgiveness for this abject failure of love in his church, Sadly, but not surprisingly, there are numerous testimonies that this is a long-standing pattern in his dealing with others in similar situations in his church.
Imagine saying “you know those churches that follow the Apostles and were around for the first 1500 years? Well, they were wrong the entire time.”
The Sola Fide folks can take heart in knowing that they don’t have to pray, love one another, repent of their sins, ask for forgiveness, or take care of the less fortunate because they “believe.”
Protestant innovation at its finest. The one place in the entire Bible that uses the words “faith” and “alone” together says, it’s not by faith alone, James 2:24. Maybe someone knows, what year had John’s group started? And when had Christ formed His Church?
😂😂😂
This is exactly why I left “Protestantism” and the many denominations I was once part of, because I tried to prove to my new wife that her catholic faith was wrong, I started to look at history and saw that I was wrong. MacArthur really believed that the church the Apostles started, literal man that walked with God, was wrong, is mind blowing.
Why did they all have different theology of the they all walked with the apostles ?
This man is the most intolerant pretense I have ever heard. "It is to be cursed"?? People actually listen to your ramblings??
The dangers of preaching to those who already agree with you.
Good thing he didnt mention the oriental orthodox which not only believe grace through faith lest anyone should boast but also had the bible in all kinds of languages since 400AD. Luther should have just reunited with the oriental orthodox instead of splintering into 2000 denominations
Salvation is 100% the work of God
Amen. 100% Jesus. Not 99% Jesus, 1% works. The gate is narrow!
It is the work of God and Us.
But the problem of faith alone doctrine is that the early Christians didn’t subscribe to that. It has always been faith and works.
absolutely not
@@rjyahin05yes they did. A true genuine faith will have works.
Jesus quite literally commanded people to be baptized and Baptists tell everyone that baptism is not an essential part of salvation. There is no Bible for that that is purely man-made doctrine.
Most protestants and Anglicans, Catholics what have you, all ignore the book the acts of the apostles. Acts 2:38 is for everyone.
Yeah Baptist tell people oh that was for the establishing of the early church. Except that’s not Bible again we’re seeing man-made doctrine. The sinners prayer accepting Jesus into your heart is not salvation.
If you believe in Jesus, you would believe what the word commands is to do. Go back to acts 2:38. There’s one lord one faith, so if you believe in salvation, by faith alone, then why didn’t Peter in Act 2:38 tell them to just believe in Christ and they’ll be saved?
Hilarious how it goes right over his brain. 2 apostolic churches with history back to Christ believe the same thing yet Macarthur thinks his 500 year old Calvinist beliefs are true. 😂 Macarthur literally looking at the proof of faith and works yet refuses to believe. That's called pride.
This is what happens when one part of the Gospel is emphasized over another. Sincere Evengelicals believe that obedience to commandments is needed to be saved by coming unto Christ. That means that both faith and works is needed. Why do they try to tell others that it is only by faith.?
The legacy of Luther.
Then what is the bar you must achieve when it comes to works? Every other religion deals with works to get to nirvana, etc. Christianity is the only that says I’ll never be good enough to reach heaven through my works. Thank God that he came to me and I didn’t have to try to reach him
@@RM-og1ni I suppose it would be honest Faith that is supported by sincere actions. In fact, without the appropriate action (work) you really dont have any faith. Just turning toward Christ and the Father (definition of Repentence) causes you to turn away from negative things (sin if you want to call it that) . It also causes you to act and do more rightous things (works). Remember, there is no repentance without an increase in rightousness.
@@outsideview9052not trying to argue but trying to understand your viewpoint. I do agree that when you receive salvation and believe in Jesus, there are internal changes (the power of the Holy Spirit obviously) but should someone not act on that, I don’t think that disqualifies them from Heaven nor does it mean they don’t have faith. That’s ultimately not on us as humans to say who’s “doing enough” and they are probably or probably not going to heaven based off their works
@@RM-og1ni I certainly agree that neither of us are in a position to judge when someone is "doing enough" to make sure that they will go to heaven. Christ will judge us all in that regard. However, in many ways we can judge if a person is making a sincere effort to live the Christian life they are claiming to support. You cant live with someone unmarried and tell others that you know Christ loves you and wants you to be happy so in your case this kind of action is ok.
As I said before, sometimes Paul or other authors of the scriptures, teach and emphasize a certain principle of the gospel so strongly that others begin to think that principle is all that matters. We certainly are saved my Gods grace and mercy through faith (we must have a Savior because we cant save ourselves); which faith is exercized by good works (rightousness). People can always argue about the differences they have between Christian denominations but since we both agree on what I just said, that should be enough for us to communicate together. As Christians we shouldnt feel threatened by other people beliefs or their interpretations of scripture. We can still disagree with them without accusing them of being lost. Best of life to you.
Justification and salvation aren’t the same. Works are just a manifestation of our faith in the grace that Christ died a death we deserved to save us from sin and as a Catholic, that is a universal Christian teaching
Sola Fide was made in response to a heresy in catholicism that you can be saved through works alone without any faith.
Faith alone works so long as you acknowledge that while works don’t save are indeed evidence of salvation.
On what basis do you determine that they are distinct? Protestants (especially dispies) seem to assert there are a lot of distinctions in the Bible (the physical church vs spiritual church, the Great Throne vs Bema Seat judgement, the justification-sanctification distinction, etc). But they never seem to justify (pun intended) these views from Scripture. They simply presuppose them and then justify them by pointing out that they HAVE to be true to hold up [insert another view they presuppose].
I grew up southern Baptist and even i knew he was wrong back when I was still in middle school. It’s not a hard concept to understand.
McAurther intentionally said "grace and works“ but this is very deceptive of him. The orthodox, catholics, and other apostolic churches all believed you are saved by grace alone, but not through faith alone. The bible never says faith "alone". But it is through faith synergy with works. This is not works of the law which Paul talks about. Read the book of James.
To be honest, as an Orthodox, this issue on salvation through faith, work or bouth, is something I never knew was an issue in the west.
Hi dear Emanuelsadu, salvation is free gift of God. It is grace of God and you can receive salvation by faith alone. You don't have to do good works for receive salvation. Of course, we need to do good works and get Baptism but that is not the condition of salvation. Jesus was crucified for you and resurrected from the dead. So Jesus saved you. So achieve that free gift of God with your faith alone.
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness-for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. (Roman 4:24-25)
Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household. (Acts 16:31)
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. (Roman 10:9-10)
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; 9it is not from works, so no one may boast. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them. One in Christ. (Ephesian 2:8-9)
Orthodox faith includes works. Also, even though my eternal salvation was accomplished without my input, being saved from sin now requires effort.
“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”
Galatians 5:6
Even Paul says love is greater than faith and love is nothing if it doesn’t have action. Even the devil knows God and that does nothing for him.
MacArthur is a Calvinist (if I’m not mistaken) and therefore these claims he is making don’t really have much weight to them. I’ve grown up in the evangelical Protestant church and the general theology of that church has been what I’ve known for a long time, but recently I’ve been studying orthodoxy. This is because my church and other churches im familiar with have decided to “go back to the basics, the beginning” which would be what is found in Scripture and what was the belief of the Apostles. The Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches both claim to have this faith and therefore it is worth studying them to see if this is true. One of the main issues that I’ve run into is the Protestant doctrine of solas, which comes from the reformation and not from the early church fathers. The Orthodox Church follows the early church fathers who followed Scripture and tradition (these were the men who are responsible for canonizing scripture and therefore it would be silly not to pay attention to what they believed). The most simple answer to this whole debate from the orthodox perspective is that it is both/and. What this means is summed up in “faith without works is dead”. Calvinism rejects this entirely especially in their doctrine of predestination where it is not possible for man to make a choice. But then where is faith? Faith is not knowing, it is living out belief. The works display faith but are also the very means by which we have faith. That is what the doctrine is really saying and not that doing a bunch of good deeds will get you into heaven. Of course I have much to learn and MacArthur has read a whole lot more than I have which would mean it is likely his own pride that blinds him. To me it is insane to follow Calvin if he killed people for being “heretics”, that is an evil thing.
I come from a very similar background and am also starting back at the fundamentals.. I think this comment is very well thought out and written I very much agree…
Correct ..from reformation , not original
Homerun brother!😇🙏
God's choosing of us, Christ dying on the cross for us, the Holy Spirit regenerating our hearts are the means of our faith. Not our works.
Amen to that brother!
I'm not catholic or orthodox but I will defend them on this. They don't (or shouldn't) make works an idol but they believe per James 2: 14 and 15:
" If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?"
It's more accurate to say that Faith without faith working through love is dead.
"By making the idol" what do you exactly mean? Have you ever hard of sacramentals? Even in the bible
Sorry buddy, Orthodoxy has the true faith.
We do believe in faith alone. When you have faith, the works come naturally. That is what we mean. If you truly have faith, the works are a way you show your faith. "Faith in Action" = Faith by acting
Just like when you sit in a chair. You have faith it is going to support you and not collapse. If you did not have faith in that chair, you would not sit in it. Sitting in it is proof that you have faith in that chair.
-an Orthodox Christian
I can explain why, if you truly have faith in god the works will follow, if you have faith but your actions do not reflect it then you do not truly have faith. It isn’t about the amount of good work or volunteer hours done but about the will to enact what god and Jesus tells us to do
he didn’t even explain why it’s wrong and curses the church ☠️
Because he is a joke, don’t let him talk about Jesus, first he claims Jesus blood, was not gods blood- no power in the name of Jesus- claims Jesus became sin for our fault. Almost like he doesn’t understand the trinity, yet he claims Bible only; son after or before you buy his Bible study. Yet the weak Christian’s will take it, why ?
All we need is faith alone, we can sit down and eat potatoes all day, before the going gets tough Jesus will rapture us.
People don’t understand the rapture theology is just like the prosperity gospel with a different twist.
Does John macarthur say that "most church's are bewitched"? I agree.
yes, including his!
He's delusional 😂
EASY ANSWER - Ask Siri "Who founded 'insert Protestant Non-Denominational Christian' Church?"
Please try a few other Protestant Christian churches for the exercise.
ANSWER: ??
Then lastly ask, "Hey Siri"... "Who founded the Catholic Church?", and then the Eastern Orthodox Church.
ANSWER: ??
So... who then has the wrong teaching? And who then should you follow?
God Bless ✝️ ❤
I follow the Bible, THE founder of church; Jesus Christ.
@@bohemondtaranto my brother in Jesus... when it comes to the 'CHURCH' and it's ' True Teachings', that JESUS passed onto his Apostles, this preacher that is ATTACKING Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, is WRONG!!!
I highly recommend watching ex-Protestant Pastors & Theolgians like Scott Hahn, Stevie Ray, Sam Shamoun (many many others) on coming to the True teachings of Jesus' True Church after learning Jewish Christian History.
The Bible is the most beautiful book ever compiled, but it can be interpreted in many incorrect ways. Why do so many different Protestant churches exist? Because they disagree on the Bible teaching - How many Truths can there be?
God Bless 🙏
@@KimGomezDesigns WE are His apostles. Because we are the ones that will bring nations to be disciples. There are so many changes on 'church' since the first century.
In the first century churches were never at a specific building, but in homes, by regular people, with regular clothes.
@@bohemondtaranto Amen! But what was the TEACHING in the First Century is the most IMPORTANT point??....... Was it Faith AND Works..... OR Faith Alone?
@@KimGomezDesigns saying faith AND works will make it like they are 2 SEPARATE things. People can choose works first THEN faith. How do you know what are the works if you dont know the WILL of The Father (to be worked for) through faith?
works always come after faith. because works are the fruits of faith. If there is no works after faith, that means the faith is fake/ not deep/no knowledge/no close relationship the The Words
we need to focus on faith, every day, not on works
if we focused on works, you will lose faith
if you focus on faith, the works will follow
if you focus on works, it will be for your own glory
if you focus on faith, the works that follow will be for God's glory.
'Faith alone' never meant to be without works. It means we need to focus on faith, our relationship with God, daily, through His Words, through fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ.
The Apostles in the first century traveled from town to town, from house to house, to visit the congregation. If your priests and your brothers and sisters in Christ do that regularly, then you are in the right path.
If you have to come to your priests in a certain building once a week, then it is not what the apostles did. If priests only stay in their 'building' never do 'the works' like the apostles did, daily and regularly, then they are the literal 'faith alone' practitioners.
It’s simple doing works is out of love for others and for respect to god and not that you can be saved
Thank God our salvation doesn't proceed from having arrived at perfect theology. Faith is accessed by little children. That said, there is a radical hole where humility should be in the Catholic faith and moreso in Orthodoxy. But pride is certainly a problem among Protestants as well. In every case, Jesus' words need to be reviewed and heeded - Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent,” John 6;29. This is all necessarily what's in view in the statement "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
Thank you, Pastor MacArthur
For someone with such a firm stance on Sola Scriptura, it seems comically ironic that MacArthur didn’t recognize the direct reference to 1 Cor 13:2 used by our Orthodox brethren
Of course he would reject the idea that faith works through love to justify because he has neither.
Someone might've already said this in the comments, but here are my 2 cents:
Everytime I see people discussing this topic of faith and works, almost all of them, John McArthur included (if this was all he said, I haven't watched the full sermon) fail to actually define what works are meant. To my understanding, there are 3 types of works;
1. Works as a result of faith in the Lord. These are the works explicitly meant by James in his epistle. Let's call this type Faith-Works.
2. Works as a results of obedience and adherence to the Law. These are the works explicitly mean by Paul. Let's call this type Law-Works.
3. Works as a result of simply doing good deeds, without any faith in a particular deity necessary - the type of good works that, for example, atheists also practice despite the absence of a particular reason and despite the lack of faith in anything which would cause these good works. Let's call this type simply Works.
So, now that we HAVE ACTUALLY DEFINED what works we are working with (hehe, get it?), we can actually proceed to make statements in accordance to our definitions.
Most pastors I've seen tackle this topic COMPLETELY forgo this and what ends up happening is they are confusing their audience, as we can see in this comment section. Instead of clarifying the topic, they bring even more confusion than what was initially there.
Now, let's get to work.
Faith in the Lord needs to bear fruit. If you don't have fruits as a result of your faith, you are a dead tree, like the famous fig tree. This is what Faith-Works means. Your faith has to inevitably bring to existence Faith-Works in your life. Otherwise, your faith is dead and/or false/meaningless. You are justified by faith alone, but if that faith doesn't bear any fruits, it's not going to justify you. It is not the Faith-Works that save you, but they are a natural result of you faith.
If you have only Law-Works, which aren't driven by faith, but rather by fear, then you are not justfied - This is what Paul meant, as he was always comparing Faith to Law-Works and NOT to Faith-Works - hence why DEFINING this is crucial. No amount of Law-Works will bring salvation, hence why Grace was needed in the first place.
Lastly, I think we can all agree that Works alone (as in 3.) won't lead anywhere, so there's no need to discuss those.
Now, what type of Works do the Orthodox and Catholic mean in their dogmas?
I'm inclined to believe both of them have the 1st type of Works (Faith-Works) in mind and as such, none of them are preaching any falsehood. They've simply also remained a bit vague in their definitions I suppose, but John didn't do any better here.
I don't know what agenda John has against the churches, but failing to discern these very important details leads me to believe there is something he has in mind, as I highly doubt he has never bothered to differentiate the type of works that Paul and James meant.
Otherwise, I think we run into a problem that would imply that Christ is not only not taking care of his church, but has lead 90+% of it astray. I don't think any of us want to go there, including John himself even though that's exactly what he insinuates here, hence I'm much more inclind to think he has a particular agenda in mind with these statements and the forgoing of definitions.
As we can clearly see Paul and James mean different things when they mention works just by reading the epistles. If that was not the case, Paul and James would be of contraty opinions and thus would be confusing thier audience as opposed to educating and enlightening it.
Also to mention, I'm not part of either of those denominations, so I have no inclination to defend them, I simply want to bring clarity to the topic, you make your own conclusions after that.
Lastly, to those mentioning the thief on the cross - Please, don't bring a single occurance that is much more the exception than the norm and much more the proof of the Lords Grace and Mercy than anything else, as your argument. If you do, then you get into a lot of trouble, as the thief was also not baptized - Does this mean we don't need to baptize anyone and disobey Christs direct instruction to do so? Does this mean noone has to receive the Holy Spirit? Does this mean you can live you whole life in sin and then repent in the last moment? It's a whole can of worms that you open with that argument. Also, if you do choose to do so, then the thief did present multiple Faith-Works in a very short amount of time:
1. He recognized his tresspasses and his own guilt and confessed himself guilty.
2. He recognized Chirsts' innocence and declared it openly, whilst rebuking the 2nd thief.
3. He declared Christ as Lord and asked to be remembered, which is clearly a sign of conviction and repentence.
All 3 of these acts are works of faith. So did he have Faith-works? Yes, undoubtably so and probably to the maximum extent that he could have given his situation.
Let me know what you think, this is what I firmly believe.
So hilarious how Evangelical Protestants claim to follow the Bible but then blatantly contradict the Bible which declares that we are saved by both faith and works and not by faith alone!
Glad I can come to Macarthur for my daily dose of humble, nuanced, charitable, and considerate teaching
John MacArthur is just plain wrong. He has become pompous. He is going to take on the entire Eastern Church based on his experience and training? Really?
The book of James points out that faith without works is dead.
Faith alone is NOT taught in the Bible. It was not taught by the Early Church. It was not taught in the Patristic Era.
MacArthir has attacked the Eastern Church before.
Let’s think about this for a moment.
In 1517 we have Martin Luther, a Catholic, adds word to the Bible. He added the German word “allein” into his heavily opinionated German translation. Each book has a page of Martin Luther’s opinions on that book. His bias shows through.
Which came first, the Church or the New Testament? The Church was up and running for four decades or more BEFORE the first Gospel was penned.
The Early church did not use the Hebrew Bible (proto-Masoretic) but used the “Book of the Seventy” known to us today as the Septuagint and it included the Deuterocanonical books too!
Also, Church tradition maintains, and the Eastern Orthodox support the notion that Hebrews WAS, in fact, written by Paul.
Modem day textual criticism throws out the testimony of the established Church when these modernists say that we do not know who wrote Hebrews. Malarkey!
The Early Church Fathers, the Early Church and the Patristic era all believed the entire Bible was Holy-all the books contained therein. The Eastern Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Church hold these to be Holy, as does the Orthodox Coptic Church of Alexandria, Egypt-the one founded by Mark, the writer of the Gospel that bares his name.
The ancient Hebrew Bible was translated into Koine Greek by Hebrew translators brought to Egypt at the behest of Ptolemy Philadelphus II in 247 BC.
thank you
Do not be concerned about other's beliefs." What has righteousness to do with unrighteousness ?" Paul asked.
All were given free will to choose the path they travel by our Creator.
Quote a scriptural reference. There are none
I cud careless abt paul hes not God. Christian killer pharisee of all pharisees blasphemed JESUS
Only orthodox ☦️✝️♥️💯 PROCENT
☦
You need Christ. Your works won’t save you
@@matthewrudolph3514 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”-and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. James 2:14-26
@@matthewrudolph3514 salvation by faith alone will not save you fellow Protestant and I speak from being a Protestant
I have read the Bible. It litterly says salvation by faith or by works alone is DEAD you must have both to be saved
And every man must believe and work
This quote is the truth. “Nothing is for free in this world why should your salvation be free” but it won’t cost worldly possessions. It will just cost true faith and true works
@@redbaronace19 give me Biblical verses to prove it.
Yes, *justified* through faith and works. John needs to know the difference between how the Orthodox and Catholics define justified and saved. Salvation is by God's Grace alone. Justification, aka to be made righteous, is through faith and works. Biblically, they believe there is a massive difference.
Romans 4:5 “And to the one who does no works, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”
Yes, but firstly Paul spoke here of the covenant sign of the Israelites in the old covenant the circumcision and secondly in this passage it's nowhere written alone by faith we receive the salvation only his faith is counted as righteousness.
You should also read the verses 6 - 12 in the 4th chapter of Romans, especially verses 9 - 12. Then it's clear that Paul meant the circumcision with "work" in this verse. It's always the same with you Protestants. You take one single verse out of the context and misinterpret it because of this.
@@dismas6992 you say all Protestant are the same, which is just laughably wrong. And I’ve read those verses. Just because he talks about circumcising, doesn’t mean that’s all he meant by works, there is no evidence for that. He used circumcision as an example because it’s a big one. But what about Romans 3:28 “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law” the reason he keeps mentioning circumcising is because that’s what many Jews were saying was required for salvation. But works of the law applies to works of the law. However, I think I need to revise something that gets lost during debates like this. Many Catholics and Orthodox believe that when Protestant say salvation by faith, we mean salvation by belief, and this isn’t true. At least for most Protestants it isn’t. Faith must be active to save. That why works is emphasized in James 2. The only real difference in our theology is that, Catholics hold works in equal value to faith. Considering works to be necessary for salvation. And we believe that faith is the only thing actually doing the saving. The reason that works, baptism, and participation on the sacraments “saves” is because of obedience to faith. Paul even says In 1 Corinthians that if you partake in holy communion without faith than the communion will become a curse to you, and not save you. So it’s not the works themselves that save, but the obedience to faith that saves. That’s still salvation by faith alone, just a more refined definition. Because if salvation wasn’t by faith alone, than the thief on the cross would not have been saved. And many Catholics will say “well Jesus Gave an exception!” But Romans 2:11 “For God shows no partiality”. The only way that the thief could obey his faith was through his declaration of faith. The same doesn’t apply to us who can do works and be baptized etc. But it’s does show how what is saving is not those works, but what the reason of that works is, faith.
@@nerdtalk1789
I really don't know what is so difficult to understand in James 2: 20 - 22 for example. It clearly says that NOT ONLY the faith of Abraham was doing the saving but ALSO the work together with the faith, in his case his readiness to sacrifice his only son if God had demanded it. Abrahams obedience COMPLETED the faith, without this the faith had been useless and incomplete it's clearly written. In the whole chapter 2 of the letters of James it's about the acts of charity, which contribute to the salvation. They are doing the salvation alongside with the faith, so it's not the faith alone doing the saving. And verse 24 and 26 summarize the whole chapter 2 with the sentences "You see that a person is justified BY WORKS AND NOT BY FAITH ALONE", verse 24 and "Far as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith APART FROM WORKS IS DEAD„, verse 26. It couldn't be expressed clearer.
And in 1 Corinthians 11: 20 - 29 the topic isn't whether we are saved by faith alone or not. It's about the real presence of Christ with his true flesh and true blood in the sacrament of the Holy Eucharistic. That derives of verses 27 and 29 where Paul wrote who eats and drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning THE BODY AND BLOOD of the LORD and in verse 29 who drinks and eats without DISCERNING THE BODY eats and drinks judgement on himself.
You can't be guilty of profaning Christ's FLESH AND BLOOD if it isn't present. Of course you have to receive the holy communion with faith but in the right faith the orthodox and catholic faith, THAT IT IS THE REAL PRESENCE OF CHRIST WITH HIS TRUE FLESH AND BLOOD OF CHRIST (see John 6: 48 - 58). Not like the Protestants who understand it only as a symbolic memorial ceremony of the Last Supper.
And why Protestants always try to justify Luther's "fait alone" doctrine with the thief on the cross? As I already said you can't ignore all other bible passages which contradict clearly this teaching. He can give us also as good as an example it's never too late to repent from sin and convert to the faith in Christ. We don't know when he found to the faith in Christ, it also can be just before he died.
Finally what has Romans 2: 11 to do with the topic of the discussion here?
Did you read also the verses 9 and 10?:
"9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who DOES EVIL, the JEW first and also the GREEK, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who DOES GOOD, the JEW first and also the GREEK."
So obviously Paul refers with the word "partiality" to the fact that God doesn't distinguish if the nationality is Jew or Greek he rewards respectively punishes both in the same manner. Begin to read the scripture in the context of the general statements and in the scripture context.
@@nerdtalk1789It’s clear from the context the “works” intended here are those of the Mosaic Law to which one is bound by circumcision. This whole section of Scripture is devoted to explaining why one doesn’t have to be a Jew to be saved. It doesn’t have anything to do with opposing faith in Christ with the works of faith in Christ, or “good works” as these are simply two sides of the same reality.
@@lornadoone8887 I’ve read the context and i always here Catholics a Orthodox trying to say it only regards circumcision. And it’s completely and blatantly false. Circumcision is mentioned and highlighted because it was seen as necessary by the Jewish people, but from Romans 2 all the way to Romans 4 it’s talking about all works, not just circumcision.
Where exactly can I find the words "faith alone" in the bible?
Look in Galatians , Romans
"False Christianity and a false gospel"...coming from someone who believes that God arbitrarily sends people to Hell. I feel like this opinion can be disregarded. 2 quick points... Faith alone was found nowhere in the Bible until the word alone was added to Protestant Bibles by Martin Luther...and the pastor needs to open up the book of James.
This is insane, They are misrepresenting Gods character, which is Just, the most loving, the most kind and the most merciful!
@@hopelove7820wait so do u believe Gods sends people to Hell? Is there not free will in your theology?
James 2:14-24.
There is no exact measure for "works", but that doesn't mean that works aren't necessary.
You gotta practice what you actually preach dude.
I'm pretty sure those 1.6 billion Catholic Christians didn't get it wrong.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.”
Ephesians 2:8-10
The book of James talks about how the result of salvation produces good works, however this has nothing to do with earning your salvation, it is the work of the Holy Spirit in a saved person to the glory of God for what He has done, how great is our God, and greatly to be praised!
I was raised Catholic and never knew why Jesus died. Just knew they still had Him on the cross at the altar. He was risen and did not remain on the cross. Never knew a thing about the plan of Salvation and went to more than one Church. My family was Catholic. So as someone once said there are Catholics who are also true Christian's but he doesn't know how they got that way". Apparently on rare occasion this will occur but not through strict Catholic teaching. I didn't get saved until I was 26 and that was through a co-worker. Incidentally, John MacArthur is one of the best teachers I've had the pleasure of reading and listening to.❤.
@@romanmosher6771 I will see you at the Judgment of Sheep and Goats then. Bring your dead faith!
Eph. 2:1-10. There's a home run in v10 that so many reformers love to ignore.
Works do not produce salvation. Faith is the gift of God that brings about salvation. Works are a sign of that salvation, they do not add too nor merit salvation. The more I've spoken to catholics the more it's become obvious y'all are extremely scattered on the issue yourselves. You can talk to ten different catholics and get 10 different answers. Your alleged unity is a joke.
Thanks for helping me along my way to Orthodoxy.
After decades in Protestantism I have grown so sick and tired of protestant play acting on faith and protestant barking, I've become Orthodox.
You have no history
You have no tradition
You are missing out on the fullness of The Faith and The Church and in that you are missing out on The fullness of Christ.
Amen, and welcome home!
“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.”
Galatians 5:6 ESV
Bro didn’t even back his stuff up 💀
Romans 5:18-20
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,
colossians1:20
and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
2 Corinthians 5 :19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation
.acts13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Titus3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Philippians 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Romans1:17
For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “ The righteous will live by faith.”
Romans 4:5
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Romans 4:6
And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
psalm103:10
He has not dealt with us according to our sins or repaid us according to our iniquities.
psalm 103:12
As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
John3:15-17
everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.…
@@wolfwatchers 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”-and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. James 2:14-26
you know this is a youtube shorts, right? I know it's been 6 months since you commented but I couldn't scroll pass this one. It almost gave me a headache.
James 2:24 homie
So the Eastern Orthodox faith should be cursed? According to this heretic?
Well he has a point. But you probably don’t know any better because you lack biblical understanding. The gospel is the churches missions and truth. If you add to it or distort it then that should be called out. The Bible is clear that the doctrine of justification hinges on faith alone. James and Paul are dealing with different topics. Paul’s writings clearly teach faith alone and James writings describe the substance of that faith. We do good works because we are saved, not to get saved because Jesus has already done that good work. We are created in Christ Jesus for good works and that isn’t even if our own doing (Ephesians). Calling this man a heretic is laughable, he would mop the floor with your ideology and would do it with the scriptures alone. Just simply ask yourself what is the gospel and what is the reason for the hope that is in you? I would also add that debating from an orthodox position to a traditional reformed Christian position is going to hard pressed because categories will be different. If you want to understand better I’d recommend through western eyes, that’s a decent book from a reformed theologian.
If it’s faith alone, what does the Bible say about that? James 2:24? Can a Protestant tell me what that says?
They cannot they claim they are Bible only, but fail to acknowledge, that their pastors view is not Bible only.
John MacArthur teaches them a run away gospel. all the true Christian’s will be taken into heaven before the tribulation. I wonder how the apostle Stephen fells
When people want to run away instead of the glorious death he served. (Baptism under fire)
Proof that faith alone will make them run, instead of holding true to God, since dying for your belief is work. They are the first woke movement.
Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it
They claim that’s just work.
Faith without works is Dead
Sorry John, you got this one wrong.
Another false teacher
10 verses about salvation by faith alone:
Ephesians 2,8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 11,6 (NLT): 6 And since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is-free and undeserved.
Acts 16,31 (ESV): 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3,28 (ESV): 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 4,5 (ESV): 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Romans 5,1 (ESV): 5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2,16 (ESV): 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 3,24 (ESV): 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Ephesians 1,13 (ESV): 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Philippians 3,9 (ESV): and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
Protestant heresy
Orthodox teaches the original ancient church understanding of the Gospe. MacArthur is wong.
Calvinists, show me where Jesus says saved by grace through faith alone.
The book of James, 2:18-20 states very clearly that faith without works is dead, that's the only time in the Bible where the words faith and work appear together and it's to make it very obvious that we Christians need both in order to be saved. May the Lord bless all those who read these words.
A Calvinist is calling Orthodox and Catholics false Christians. It’s like a worm calling me a false human.
By divine grace we understand the saving and deifying energy of God, made available through Christ's work, and distributed by the Holy Spirit, the source of grace and sanctification.
Divine grace, the work of the Holy Spirit, is a free gift, necessary for our salvation, non-coercive, which requires our cooperation (synergy). Our response to the grace of God is our works of love, which are the fruits of God's grace working in us. We are justified by God's grace. However, this justification is not real, unless it produces the "works of righteousness."
- The Dogmatic Tradition of the Orthodox Church
Given how much this guy talks about Catholics, you’d think he’d learn what they believe instead of just developing strawmen
Matthew 25 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Good works are the fruit of a saving faith. The good works comes after you have been saved by faith, lest you should boast with pride and arrogance.
No, that's wrong. The good works don't come automatically as a result of the saving faith after accepting Jesus Christ as your savior, redeemer and Messiah.
Read Matthew 7: 17 - 23; 25: 31 - 46. If it were like that, Jesus warnings wouldn't make any sense. Man still possesses after the conversion the free will to execute or not the good works God prepared for him. Ephesians 2: 8 - 10. The good works belong to the saving faith but God doesn't force us to execute them. So we are not saved by faith alone.
@@dismas6992 If you are not a new person in Christ after having being saved, then you were never saved to begin with. The evidence of having being saved is new behaviours. John the Baptist said "produce fruit in keeping with repentance". You are a NEW person in Christ when you are saved. If good works don't follow then you are not saved. You are not a new person in Christ and you do not love the Lord as you confessed.
There are three conditions for being saved. You have to repent, believe and endure to the end. You can't be watching porn, claim to be saved and keep watching porn after that. Clearly you were not saved. When you are saved your love for Christ is so strong that stopping porn is easy. It is no longer your faith that creates a change in behaviours after you are "saved". It is your love for your saviour Jesus Christ.
@@dismas6992 Whilst the work of the Holy Spirit within us is invisible, the results of the Holy Spirit are not, they are VISIBLE, namely new behaviours.
@@JohnSmith-zo6ir
No, that isn't true at all, pretending people who sin again after the conversion aren't saved to begin with is only an excuse to justifie Luther's heresy. You are right saying if the conversion of somebody was really true and honest you can't watch anymore porn videos for example due to the love for Christ You are also right in saying for being saved you have to repent, believe and ENDURE TO THE END. And exactly this is the key of the salvation to remain in this beginning love for Christ until the end of your life. The salvation is an ongoing process not a uique single act in life. The bible is full of warnings addressed to believers who were saved to to begin with but are in danger to fall back in the old behaviours or giving up the faith and losing the salvation. Moreover you just ignore the free will of human being like it did already Calvin. As I said already man is created in freedom by God, with a free will. You can be in the saving grace on the beginning of the conversion but God doesn't force us to keep the faith, to remain in the beginnig love for Christ or to act according to his will in future even if you are a NEW PERSON in the beginning of the salvation. We still possess the free will God doesn't take away from us by the conversion.
You still don't have explained me how you want to reconcile bible passages like MATTHEW 7: 13 - 23; 25: 31 - 46 or JAMES 1: 1 - 22; 2: 14 - 26 for example with the "Faith Alone" doctrine.
It's like the orthodox and catholic church say, man is saved by FAITH + GOOD WORKS. This was the teaching of Christ, the apostles and their successors and the early church from beginning on. Luther had to invent his doctrine because it has never been taught before him by anyone so it proves it's a wrong teaching.
@@dismas6992 Im not interested in all the "isms". I only go by what the scripture says. To be saved requires repentance, belief and enduring to the end. Being saved is both an event and a process. The event is when you GENUINELY repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour and hopefully you do that in private with the Lord and not some hyped up "call-up" in an evangelical church based on a feeling. That is a ritual, not a genuine repentance.
The process part is sanctification, which only takes place after the event, and that is also the enduring part to the end. There will be trials and tribulations.
Philippians 2:12-13 ESV
To "work out your own salvation" means you have to believe, repent (which starts the process of sanctification) and endure to the end.
Hebrews 6:1
"Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God"
The key words are "dead works" or "dead behaviours". When you repent and become a new person in Christ your old behaviours should die and be replaced with new behaviours consistent with the Word of God.
James 2:26
"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead"
The context for "faith without works is dead" is seen in James 2:14.
"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead".
Works, action and behaviours are the evidence of faith and belief in action. No man comes to God by works, but all men who truly come to God will give evidence of the faith that they have, by the things that they do.
In 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Paul teaches that being “in Christ” results in a person becoming a “new creation”.
Ephesians 4: 17-24
Versus 17-24 are a comparison before salvation and after salvation"put off your old self" are your old behaviours and "put on your new self" are your new behaviours.
Examples of the old behaviours are given in versus 17-20, namely; the way you think, the hardening of their hearts causing ignorance, sensuality leading to impurity and being full of greed.
The new behaviours are as a result of the holy spirit changing your values where righteousness and holiness are valued leading to a change in your mind-set and attitude.
It's impossible (futile) to live in your old ways once you have been saved as verse 17 says; "In the futility of their thinking". Once the Holy Spirit comes upon you, it's impossible (futile) to live in the old ways. You will be renewed in your thinking which will manifest in new behaviours. And, it's not you bringing about those new behaviours, it is the Holy Spirit.
That's why if you have no manifestation of new behaviours you are likely not saved. The Holy Spirit is not residing within you.
It's a hard message for "Christians" and like you, you don't want to face the possibility of the truth that maybe you were never saved to begin with.
Here are more scriptures validating that reality.
Paul uses three infinitives to illustrate the transformation in Ephesians 4 verse 22 "put off" or "lay aside" your old self, verse 23 "be renewed" or "make new" in the attitude/spirit of your mind and verse 24 "put on" the new self.
This transformation is the work of God, not your work. It is the Holy Spirit who has transformed you. You heard the gospel, you learned the gospel and you believed the gospel. The old self has been removed and completely replaced. It's not a new self, tagged on to the old self. The old self is completely removed. Verse 24 says the new self is "created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness". So, a saved person is like God.
1 John 1:6
"If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth".
"Walking in the darkness" after having been saved, demonstrates that you were never saved to begin with. If you were saved you would be walking in the light as a new person in Christ.
1 John 3:6, ESV.
"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him".
You cannot abide in Chist if there are no change in behaviours for the good. If there are no change in behaviours then "you have neither seen him or know him". There never was a relationship and therefore you were never saved to begin with.
1 John 3:10, ESV.
"By this it is EVIDENT who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not PRACTICE RIGHTEOUSNESS is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother".
1 John 3:18, ESV.
"Little children, let us not love in word or talk, but in deed and in truth".
So love is an action/deed and truth, not virtue signalling like the hypocritical Pharisees with words and talk".
So, you can't be saved by works, but once you are saved, you are a new person in Christ and you will manifest new behaviours. If there is no behavioural change then you were never saved to begin with.
1 John 5:18, ESV.
"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning (because they change their behaviours), but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him".
In Revelation the scriptures not only confirm that there MUST be a change in behaviours once you are saved, but also includes the CONSEQUENCES if you don't. It covers the condition of REPENTANCE in verse 21 and then in versus 22 and 23 are the consequences for not repenting. At the end of verse 23 are the consequences if there are no changes in behaviour, namely, "I will give to each of you according to your WORKS (behaviours)".
That is why Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23: "I never knew you, depart from me you who practice lawlessness".
"Lawlessness" is a behaviour/fruit.
And "practiced" means it is something you were doing. It's bad fruit. You were doing bad behaviours.
So, when Jesus says "I never knew you", it's not because you are no longer saved. It's because you were never saved to begin with. There was no relationship to break off.
By way of example, in the days of our Lord there were six thousand Pharisees and yet throughout the four gospels, only one Pharisee came to salvation. His name was Nicodemus (John 3:1-21).
The Pharisees were the equivalent of our modern day pastors and Jesus said to them "I never knew you, depart from me you who practice lawlessness". The Pharisees, like many of today's pastors, were false prophets filled with greed, arrogance, pride and a false religion.
1 John 2:19 reiterates this;
"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us".
There was never a relationship with Jesus to begin with.
And, it continues in 1 John 3:1, ESV.
"See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him".
There was never a relationship with Jesus to begin with.
So yes, when you are saved in the context of the event, there is an IMMEDIATE change in behaviours. You cannot stop that immediate change from happening, because it is not you making the change (that would be your will), it is the Holy Spirit making that immediate change. By the way you talk, this did not happen to you.
The process of sanctification after the event, is about endurance to the end and how you handle you handle trials and tribulations with your new found self. And, sanctification during that process, is found only in the scripture. Don't get all hung up in the "isms". Build your relationship with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and sanctify yourself through scripture.
I rebuke him in name of Father Son and holy Spirit
Regardless of Orthodox beliefs, John MacArthur loves to hear himself talk. He is an arrogant, and a self appointed teacher.
but the funny thing is... despite his and millions of other evangelicals like him who believe salvation is by faith alone... they also do lots of good works. Individually and as a church they as do much or more than Catholic and Orthodox churches to help the needy, drug addicted, single moms, homeless, missions outreaches, etc... They also emphasize growing in faith and knowledge in Christ through Bible studies, prayers, meditations, being sanctified and made holy in Christ's image etc. So my question is... do they also have to believe their works justifies them to be saved? Or are they already doing the good works needed per Roman Catholics and Orthodox even though they don't believe its necessary for salvation?
Its actually because they are saved by faith not by false faith but true saving faith which is alive not dead and it alive that it results in good works in them before the world that others may see and glorify the father....
See it says in James 2 'show me' your faith by ur works in other words it's not about proving to God it's to men that works speak they serve as a testimony that ur faith is real and genuine which only God can know
John here doesn't realize that the Orthodox are quoting galatians here. He rejects Paul and doesn't understand him
There are plenty of passages that teach the significance of doing good works. "14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." James 2:14-17
i can just envision catholics and orthodox having little baby fights over minor things like the papacy and filioque, then finding this and standing as brothers.
Imagine being a dispensationalist saying this..
10 verses about salvation by faith alone:
Ephesians 2,8-9: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 11,6 (ESV): But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
Acts 16,31 - And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 3,28 - For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 4,5 - And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Romans 5,1 - Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2,16 - yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 3,24 - So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.
Ephesians 1,13 - In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Philippians 3,9 - and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
Before quoting know that Work as Paul describes is the work according Laws. not unconditional or agape work.
So, should we not accept letter of james as a new testament book? It specifies faith without work is like a body with no life...