I Swapped my Endurance rides for Tempo
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- Опубликовано: 6 янв 2022
- Training vlog from my Tempo Session!
📈 My Cycling Coaching services: www.nero.club/coaching
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or follow me on Strava: / strava
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Great channel Jesse! Thanks for sharing your mistakes as well as your triumphs.
Great content as always!! Such good info
Love training sessions like this.
I also cant take a lot of solid breakfast, especially if early morning ride, so I find it easier to make liquid breakfast with my nutri-bullet by blending oats, banana and some honey then I drink it as i prep the bike and get changed etc. I use plain water in the blender as dairy gives me cronic reflux in the bike 👍
I like this idea!
Great insight, thanks for sharing
Love the channel and content brother ✊🏿
Thanks JT
Excellent Jesse will try to use this tempo session on the trainer icy in the UK
I did 300w for just over 17 mins today and that was me going nearly all out. 😬
bro, that's not bad, don't compare to others
I can barely do 300 Watts for 5 minutes so don't feel too bad
I can do 300w for 2 minutes bro
If you want to compare jake I’m 16yo and I can maybe do 300watts for 7mins 😉
I started cycling 3 months ago and I managed to do 213W normalized power (20min) and ave power 193 yesterday .. I think my FTP is around 200-215 now .. I would kill to do 300W for 17 min .. I have improved a lot but still have a lot of work to do .. I fell in love with the sport and I can’t get enough of it ..
Great video!
talk about the music you listen to more! I love cycling with music
What solved the carbs / water problem for me was having separate water bottles to my carb bottles. I take two pop tops (yes, the childrens juice pop tops) each with 120g carbs mixed with water and carry them in my pockets. I then leave my water bottles as hydration fluid - sometimes like 15g carbs and a crack of salt mixed with water. I take 60g sugar per hour so all I aim for is “drink half a pop top by every 30 minutes” and then drink my water bottles as needed based on temp and sweat levels 👌
Bingo that's what I should have done if I prepared properly and checked the forecast!
Excellent video
Thanks Jesse.
Underrated channel. Enjoying your content
Thanks :)
Theres a balance between tempo and endurance. I like to do higher intensity and then let the legs build up with the slower endurance rides afterwards.
Great vid. What would be the point of carrying the tire levers if the dyna-plugs can be inserted without taking the tire out? If the plugs don't work, taking the tire out with the levers doesn't do any repairing. Thanks...
You should have asked that dude sitting on your wheel to take a turn hahah. 120g in a 740ml bottle is just gross. i struggle with 50g. super content JC loving your insights
Have you tried Maltodextrin? It's not as sweet as regular sugar so it might be easier for you to get the carbs in. And it's still quite cheap compared with gels / bars.
What kind of screen (and data) is the one you have in this video..? There are 2 numbers, showing around 300W but I just cannot figure out how to set up my Wahoo this way... Thanks!
Would you please post the name of you plug kit from this ride. That purple container, thank you
Love your channel. I’ve binge watched so many episodes! Quick question I often do a 4 hour ride which has about 3 hours in Z2 and a one hour climb that’s in Z3/4. How many carbs per hour would you consume and would you change anything on the climb? Thanks so much!
Thanks. For the carbs start with 50g per hour, see how you feel. Increase from. With the training thing, I have no idea that's very individual, depends on the goal of the session, how it fits in the week/month, etc.
@@nerocoaching Thanks. I usually do about 50g per hour and the month leading up to a gran fondo I gradually up it to 80g to train my gut. I guess I'm just not sure if having more carbs on a long Z2 ride will help performance.
@@aussiefreediver carbs will always help performance. They will also prepare you for training in the coming days, without leaving you depleted. Zone 2 rides burn far more carbs then you would assume. Zone 3/4 you are burning more carbs than you can consume per hour, unless you are very well conditioned.
Do you take down electrolytes the night/day before a hard outdoor session on a hot/humid day? If I don't, I'm screwed in hot Florida weather.
Thanks for the insight and a great video. One question, how does dehydration occur without a noticeable cardiovascular drift given that power is maintained?
Where does one buy these devel frames? They don't seem to be available for sale and devels website is offline.
This is how I always fuel. Energy in concentrate form (either in Hammer Flasks or bottle) and water separately. Much easier to extend rides longer this way.
If 300w 2 hour on trainer. Then how much 2 hour average power you can do on outdoor cycling?
That was you I passed leaving centenial park.
Im going to the TPU tubes a go next week.
brutal conditions in sydney recently, sweat dripping off even just walking, soo humid
I would love that. Here in the Netherlands rain and almost everyday storms. Rather sweat then cold rain!
Jesse, Im a time crunched cyclist.. I have 10 hours a week.. I do 2 interval sessions one on flats at 10 min efforts and 1 day hills.. do you suggest Tempo, Sweet spots, or endurance for the rest of the week? remember 10 hours total, and Ive lost 4 hours already on the 2 interval days. I only do crit races and circuit races, neither lasting more than 90 miin. Mostly they are 1 hr.
Can start with endurance for the rest, as you progress/adapt over the weeks and months you can creep that up to tempo or SST, assuming the 10h remains constant.
I understand that the body reacts to training stimulus and that different training stimulus produce different adaptions by the body. What I struggle to understand is if you can mix training stimulus in a session and get multiple adaptations? Or, is it best to just provide one type of stimulus per session and have the body produce one type of adaptation? Also, how long does the body take to produce the adaptations in response to the stimulus? Keep up the excellent work.
Dylan Johnson talks about a lot of that on his channel. Generally, afaik, if you do Z2, don't go into Z3-5, otherwise you create a stress response / fatigue of Z3-5 efforts. However, some very switched on people do a Z2 session with a hard effort at the end, so, go figure...
@@pierrex3226 Regarding doing hard efforts after Z2 session is all good but you should then consider that whole session as a hard session and recover accordingly. Also if you ride just for your self and have also life outside of cycling (for example 3-4 days a week) then this type of training is quite nice and efficient since you get metabolic adaptations for both the oxidative and glycolytic energy systems. If your training is more specific then I would personally keep clear boundaries between training sessions below and over the first lactate turn point.
Hey... great video's 👍 how much SS training per week is advisable and what would a good SS session look like 👍 👌
Too hard to give a general recommendation. Depends on how your week is structured, goals, training history, recovery ability, lifestyle, and so on.
What about starting with two bottles of carbs and once the first bottle is finished, refill it with water?
i just took a look at your strava and i gotta say, it's crazy how amazing form you have compared to the small amount of volume you have, you are way ahead me and many others who train 10+ hours a week.
Question - if you are riding solo, targeting a specific power, do you recommend breaking out the aero kit?
I see no point in doing that. I'm saving my best kit for races only.
Hey mate, just a quick question. How do you work out your HR zones and then link them to your wattage
I put it my threshold HR and threshold PWR into the training software I use and it tells me my zones
Curious, why didn’t you finish the last hour after the refill. Is it really detrimental to training stimulus/recovery if you workout whilst being severely dehydrated?
The effort would have been too hard to finish. Even if I had drunk an entire bottle of water, I was already thirsty from about 1.5 hours into the effort. Plus it's early in the season for me, not worth the mental effort to stop, drink, refill then re-motivate to finish it off.
me with 170w ftp watching this already feel painfull.
its that in mph or kmph?
Did it work? Could you maintain the same fitness level with less training hours?
Great vid! Did you ride straight 2 hours on tempo? or you split it into intervals?
Can check it out here Check out my activity on Strava: strava.app.link/0FMoOPB5Dmb
What was your speed at 300w ?
Dream numbers for me. I can hold about 280W for an hour - 300W for 2h seems so far away.
Hi..What was the average speed of that session.
Was hot today. Was fine up until 8am then they turned the furnace 🔥 on
Haha, clicked on the video on Saturday 8th January at 7.20 am, in the UK. I thought it was a personal invite to go train……🤣🤣🤣🤣
Haha
How do u build those target watt workouts? Is that on trainingpeaks?
Today’s plan
I get the tempo work, but the amount of SST seems excessive(?) Would it not be smarter to ride e.g. two of those SST days at an easier pace (endurance/tempo) and then do threshold intervals in the two others, e.g. 10x 3min at FTP? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this.
Not doing any specific work in mid to upper zone 4 at the moment, it's early in the year for me. This is essentially my cheats version of base training because I don't want to do 14+ hour training weeks, and I've got a big training history and will have no problems handling the load.
@@nerocoaching Haha I see. So basically if you had more time, you'd do way more z2 and z3 and less SST like a normal base training?
Exactly!
You have some awesome content and training info but can you tell me what false fat is 😆?Is that like a false flat and I know how it is something comes out that sounds right?
haha yeh false flat lol
Have you tried rice instead of oats?
Mate, should check out Infinit Nutrition Australia's custom blends. Formulated specifically to your physiology. No more mishaps!
Why do some coaches prefer to have tempo done at a low ish cadence ?
I did 300w for 1 hour 20mins the other week and was wrecked after. I'd be stoked if I could get my tempo pace up to 300 watts.
Why do you take tyre levers without a spare tube?
That is a very point point... They are totally useless haha!!
My saddle has a tube in it which I usually bring if not running the go pro
Do you ride in a bike park? Looks so nice and has almost no traffic!
Centennial Park in Sydney, it's amazing
Very interested but i question the power. I can't imagine pushing 300+W and be able to hold a camera even at times.
2 hours at 300W is awesome. You are strong! Hope i am able to do this aswell after the upcoming season, where i will also get into racing. I just managed 28 minutes at 308W in a Zwift Race few days ago, where i also got a new ftp. Have been cycling for 7 months now, but probably trained too much to still call me a beginner 😅 Still way to go until i could hold 300W for 2 hours. I read somewhere Christoph Strasser did 8 hours at 300W in training... You have some very informative Videos! Keep it up!
300W means nothing if you don't attach your weight to it. 300w for a 60kg rider is far different than 300w for a 100kg rider.
300w tempo for 2 hours ! Alright..... deep breathing.... relax! axaxa ! Awesome mate ! Also... vibrator?Lol ! Keep uploading !
haha thanks
It was an odd morning today, I clocked 32degrees at one point over the bridge and it was super humid. Looks like the heavy air continues tomorrow...
Interesting. Lovely morning though
@@nerocoaching Do you use any weather apps for sydney to track rain etc?
I use the BOM app but they seem to be rather useless at predicting the Sydney weather
@@nerocoaching Thanks for the info, much appreciated!
Come ride in Singapore you described the weather here everyday haha. That said we try to ride early mornings or evenings to escape the heat 👍
monsoon surge is real. humidity is very high as well that'll cause dehydration
Do you use a magnetic necklace for GoPro?
How can you do tempo without a power meter? Becasue i dont have the money to afford one. Thanks
Realistically it's probably the hardest pace you can hold for 90 minutes to 3 hours which will vary from sweet spot down to lower tempo.
You could use a heart rate monitor and set zones off threshold heart rate. For me it's between 142 to 160 bpm you with threshold at 170 bpm. Yours will be individual to your own heart rate genetics
@@plantpoweredhealth9383 thanks
300watts for 2hrs, ok! This channel has my attention
Great video and love the music and editing. I have to admit that I do find it somewhat dispiriting watching your videos and seeing the power numbers that you hit, especially when paired with the insight into your training and seeing that there's nothing "magic" there but just solid work - my own power numbers are nothing near yours despite years of consistent training and I guess I just need to accept that that's my personal physiology and that's how it is, its just a complete downer if I start to compare myself! I guess the key thing is just to work on ourselves the best we can and not compare to others, but that's so much easier said than done...
You're not the only one! We just gotta stick with it.
Just based on physiology not everyone can reach this level, but you can definitely improve a lot over time if you do it right.
@@rjcowan9568 👍💯
Couple of things to keep in mind, I'm about 78kg at the moment. So the power looks high but the w/kg isn't crazy.
Also I have an extensive endurance training background. For essentially the last decade (all the way from last few years of school when I was rowing at a high level) I've been training like an elite athlete. It's only in the last year or two I've backed it off, so I'm going to respond to training a lot better than someone who doesn't have as much of an athletic background.
And final thing, there's no magic! Exactly spot on. Consistency, recovering well, and as cringe as it is to say, training hard. They make the difference. Even at the pro level people are shocked when the realise how "normal" the pro's training. They do a lot of hours, but there's very little about it thats secret or magic.
All I wanted from Christmas was a 300W FTP, I don't believe in Santa anymore
No tube or pump! You're braver than me.
Maybe in humid air your sweat does not evaporate so quick. So it does not
mean you sweat more liquid and should drink more.
I only run 30gms of sugar in my water bottles, sometimes 60gms at the very most in 1x 1litre bottle but have the other bottle at 30gms and another with just straight water, then a gel or a bar every half hour, it's just too sweet otherwise and this is only for rides over 3 hours so not pushing as hard as you.
Do you survive on 1.6 litres of fluid for 1hr let alone 2 or 3 hrs in summer?
Could easily go through 1 litre per hour when it's hot! Never actually measured exactly how much I go through on a hot day though
@@nerocoaching good video topic.
Measure your BW pre and post ride and show the punters how much you actually lose, esp. on hot and humid summer days.
Any electrolytes added to your sugar water?
Just got to the 9:40 mark, good lessons.
Very small amount of electrolytes (1 scoop of Staminade per bottle). Would have used more salt if I knew it was going to be that hot and going through that much fluid
Z2 and z3 are training different metabolic systems
I did 4 hours at 310 Watts with one hour climb at 360 Watts constantly in training. 78 kg. Can I be a pro ? :D
Damn that’s great. You’re at least Cat 1 on the road.
I would be bonked if I ride 300W for 30mins 😅
Just curious as I'm a noob in cycling. Do you care about that random bloke (I assume random) on your wheel the entire time?
I don't mind if the road isn't busy. I do get annoyed if the park is very busy and people are drafting bringing more attention.
But, it is a bit weird, not gonna lie..
Thought you had a mate along to train together. Was wondering why you never mentioned him 😆
The lad wasn’t hurting any 1 and probably made his day sitting on Jesse wheel for a bit in all his Nero kit. 😄👍
Worse for me is to do 5min laps for 3 hours, then geting dehydrated:)
How much do you weight !?/)
78kg at the moment
I would be a bit cheesed off with the wheel hugger Jesse,he is saving himself 25 watts easily and is having an arm chair ride! Great info on this Video...
Probably more like 50/75 watts... His loss.. I'd get frustrated sitting in someone's wheel and not have full control over my own output..
Why would you be bothered about the wheel sucker - he may well have been at his limit or coming back from injury. Nothing to worry about
@@theademerckxfiles9967 Strange reply? O well if every time you go out and a guy sucks your wheel,good luck to you!
Do you know the fella sitting on your wheel the whole time?!
Nope
just to better understand your week volume...how much watts/kg is tempo for you?! 4 watts/kg?
I'm not at "race weight" at the moment. So middle of tempo (290w) is about 3.7 w/kg at my current weight
@@nerocoaching thank you very much for the info...I am also a bit confused of what exactly people mean with tempo, sweet spot and (high) endurance zone..w/kg is much more understandable 😉
@@io8787 Sure w/kg is easier to understand but you can't just take Jesse's values for your training. The w/kg values for every zone depend on your individual FTP and your current weight.
Get your FTP with an FTP test. Then you can calculate the different zones for your training. Very roughly endurance means 60-70% of your FTP, 70-85% is Tempo zone, ~90% is Sweet Spot. The exact values also depend on which training zone model you use.
@@felixkolarz8219 totally agreed..I just wanted to have a rough estimate of what Jesse consider's tempo, but as you said, without knowing w/kg at FTP it's not an "absolute" measure..depending on the moment of the season and the training you are doing, tempo seems to be a bit a floating zone between 3.4 and 4.0 (in my case), which is not necessarily a small range in terms of "training load"
300w for 2hrs...feel like that's something I will never achieve. Just have to keep training, and revisit this comment in 12 months :). Easy to get lost in comparisons against much faster people I think.
It's been over 12 months. Time to compare to yourself! How did you go?
@@neotokyohead Haha love this! Did quite well actually thank you, got threshold to 345w, great race results in my club and promoted to top race grade. Haven't performed a true 1hr or 2hr power test TBH as I just do crits mainly, so 300w for 2hrs would be a stretch for sure but maybe doable on a really good day?
300w for 2h is tough, but possible on paper with a threshold of 345w, give it a crack!
@@mrwezbo How awesome is that!? Well done and thanks for inspiring others :)
I am a novice cyclist and I would like to know what it means 2 hours at 300 w. I have no idea what this measurement is. Please explain and thank you in advance. Greetings.
Its basically very simple, he puts 300 watts of power on the pedals with his muscles and he has done that on average for 2 hours. For a novice cyclist I wouldn't really put too much attention to the watts, first of all it requires an expensive power meter, but also its a measurement that will pay off when you're really serious about cycling. If you want to use data for your training, you should start with a heart rate monitor. With that you can determine at which heart rates your legs start to burn and at what heart rate you can easily ride for hours. Just look up the different training zones and see how you can figure those out based on your heart rate. Then you can start training different zones, which is beneficial for your overal improvement. I personally don't want to ride at tempo (which is zone 3/4 in most training zone models) because it has a big impact on your body (fatigue) and it makes me more of a diesel than a sportscar (MY experience). I like to do long rides in zone 2 (where I can just maintain breathing through my nose) or really heavy interval training in zone 5, with sprint training as well (zone 6/7). I suggest you read a lot yourself about what your body is actually doing at different levels of exortion and heart rate and what training actually does to your body and just try different things ! And have fun of course!
@@pjetrs Thank you very much for the comprehensive information. I have no idea how much I will be able to get involved in these types of training. However, I will try to keep it all in mind and gradually implement it in my training. Thank you once again and best regards.
STILL I GRIND
😂
dylan johnson would say tempo is junk miles
dude how many people ride their bikes there???😂 I thought there were a lot of cyclists in switzerland…
If , like me , you don't care for a heavy breakfast but want some lasting nutrition , Carnation Breakfast Anytime powder ( if available in oz) , a bit more milk than recommended , two raw eggs and some protein powder in a blender and two bananas and you're away. Have the food first then get your gear on , pump the tires up , let the cat out , let the cat back in and then things are settled.
Training for Nationals?
Nope
Mate, none of the pros are doing this. Right now it’s Z2 interspersed with short Z4 intervals. Hope you don’t burn out. There’s a long year ahead. Why not do a 2 or 3 hour ride with repeatability in Z4/very short Z5
I'm not a pro 🤣 and to infer is a standard way pro's training is hilarious. Training is all individual, I am a full time coach and sports scientist and no one I coach trains like this by the way. I appreciate your concern though, if it was genuine.
@@nerocoaching yeah I can appreciate that pros are a unique breed and that you are a coach. But coaches talk about how pros do loads of base training and it’s the gold standard to build endurance when you have time. But when many pros sprinkle in high intensity to some Z2 sessions - as they are right now - you say you’re not a pro (and seem to discard it as a means of training for us mere mortals?). Doing loads of tempo and SST in winter is fine in winter, but in my personal experience it’s a recipe for burnout for average cyclists by spring/early summer unless it’s just a front-loaded week. And yes, I am genuinely concerned
I'm not sure what to say. This was just a training vlog discussing my week, why I'm including tempo rides, and for balance also mentioned the potential downsides of doing so. This video wasn't a guide on how to train.
I've used different approaches in the past e.g. see Dec '19 and Jan '20 on Strava for a more Polarised approach with a lot of zone 2.
@@nerocoaching I appreciate that this is a weekly blog. But people can easily take stuff the wrong way if they are already leaning towards or tempted to do too much Z3 work in the base period, imo. Your content is great and I watch it all the time. Just wanted to raise the subject
Sure I can see that, it's a common issue unfortunately. That's one of the reasons I always reply to the comments to clarify for people who've got the wrong idea or are taking things I'm saying that apply to my personal circumstances at face value
Nice outfit
Fantastic to see a rim brakes bicycle. Disc brakes ruined the look and the aerodynamic of the bicycles.
Pretty high average HR considering that you have trained in zone 3. Looks more like a threshold zone
My threshold HR is 185
Jesse, I think your explanation of why you do the tempo effort and the comparison to doing endurance isn’t very clear. You say that doing an endurance or tempo ride would have similar training effect but then say that a 2h tempo ride is equivalent to a 3h endurance ride. Following seiler’s research, wouldn’t you be doing these rides for mental freshness (over continued endurance) or specificity?
They have a similar training effect, but a tempo session is more physically stressful, and more difficult for the body to recover from from than an equivalent training load endurance ride.
But I'm not training close to the limit in terms of load, I'll have no problem recovering from these sessions. And the specific adaptations you'd get from an endurance ride as opposed to a tempo ride aren't important to me at this point in time. So to save time, tempo is more appropriate for me as I'm current training.
It's all individual, this is just for me. I've not saying to do this as a recommendation for everyone.
@@nerocoaching theatre point you make there is why I questioned it. Maybe it's too early here but I didn't get that from the video and think others may take "do tempo over endirance". Thanks for the reply and clarification 👍
Hydration problem ? -> Electrolytes: add some salt to your water !
This would have helped, I usually do this !
I can hold 300 watts for 1 min 30 seconds. He can do it over 2 hrs. I love to hate this sport. Most satisfying frustration on earth.
Polarised
Not for me, not at this point in the year
meanwhile, I can keep 300W for only 10 seconds. and I am 80KG
300w is my 5 min power lmao (i'm 59kg)
300w is my 30s sprint (I'm 41 kg and a terrible sprinter) 😅
Which means in terms of w/kg, you'd only need to do 225w to match my 300w!
@@nerocoaching yea but on the flats doesnt get me the same speed haha
Try overnight oats, easy to get down
Wow! 120 grams of carbs per hour. How did you learn your body to absorb that much? I thought 80 grams was the absolute maximum the human body can absorb in an hour during exertion. And probably less when you are exerting so much in tempo zone.
Edit: I'm dumb, you clearly stated in the video you planned to drink both bottles in 3 hours ride. Which is exactly 80 grams of carbs per hour. I had the same issue like you - putting too much carbs into the water without actually taking into account that these carbs take up some of the volume of the bottle, actually quite a good portion. To combat this I just grabbed bigger bottles (800 milliliters) and chugged 80 grams of carbs per bottle and try to drink a bottle per hour. If you put the same 80 grams of carbs into a smaller bottle (or in your case 120 grams into a big bottle) the mixture becomes to saturated and it doesn't really quench your thirst, not to mention the consistency is kind of weird, like drinking syrup. Anyway, I always bring small zip bags filled with 80 grams of carbs with me. After the 2 hour mark I stop to refill and chug down the remaining fluid (if any). Fill the bottles, put the magic powder in the bottles and go. Well hydrated, and perfectly fueled every time. You can really feel the difference on long endurance rides.
80g is definitely not the limit. Easy to take in above 80g per hour if using a drink with glucose and fructose.
The 120g per hour was accidental because I was thirsty, wasn't intending to take that much in. But I felt fine.
It's commonly said that 100-120g per hour is the limit you can absorb. I don't know if that's true or not for me, I don't have any issues at all taking in 120g per hour if I wanted to. I've got no way of telling if my guts can absorb at that rate, but it doesn't give me any discomfort.
@@nerocoaching If you are not bloating and having gases you are perfectly fine. It just never crossed my mind to go over 80g per hour. I will definitely give it a try. Especially when I know my engine sucks up fuel like crazy.
For sure it's worth a try on your longer/harder training sessions. Like a 4 hour ride with a bunch of climbs, where you'll be finishing in an energy deficit regardless of how many grams of carbs you get in. If taking more carbs in on those rides reduces that deficit, and gives you better quality training, and makes the ride feel better, it's a win.
Not super into music? Yeah good luck in life dude. 🙏🏽 peace
Zone 3 5 days a week and loads of sugar, got it! 🤦♂️
What's your FTP
You mean w/kg?! A lot lower if I did that.
How to get overtrained. Pt1.
Once in a week tempo session for the whole ride is perfectly OK, if not preferable after a solid block of endurance.
Said every TrainerRoad podcsst listener ever
Hirschi is that you
But nah it's neccessary for me, not even close to overtraining with the background and lifestyle I have, and ability to recover
Weak performance.
😢
@@nerocoaching please dont cry, IT wasnt so bad Just a bit weak, Focus more on youre gonna pull it off.
@@nerocoaching lol. marcin is that wheel hugging troll who stayed in your wheel the whole time..
Thats a cool bike
you needed a voordeelflacon of water!!
Great content Jesse and some inspiration for my own channel. I'd love to meet for a Sydney ride sometime if your keen